722. Learn to Launch a Physical Product or Learn to Grow a Digital Product with Jacqueline Snyder and Minna Khounlo-Sithep

As the business owner, this is something we do in multi stream machine as well as in our masterminds is that we try to uplevel our business owners because it takes a little bit of coaching and guidance. Also takes mindset work and it takes understanding what is right for your business and the vision that you have for it.

Welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, Founder of Light Pink, best selling author, three time fitness world champion and I'm a crazy multi passionate entrepreneur. My journey journey has taken me everywhere from being a broke waitress, barista, retails associate and personal trainer with massive anxiety and no belief in myself to later becoming a multi millionaire in love with my life. In 2007 my husband and I lost everything. We found ourselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at rock bottom. We had no ideas and I had no education to fall back on. This is when I found personal development and learned could about business not by choice but because I realized no one was coming to save me. The conversations on this podcast are going to let you know that you're not alone and that we all feel like.

We don't know what we're doing.

We're going to give you the tools to help you face your fears, take action, start your business and grow those massive dreams that are keeping you up at night. It's time to create a life that you can't hide from and put so much on the line that your higher self is flipping forced to come out. You're going to stop waiting for someone to approve of you and you're going to anoint yourself. Because I'm obsessed about building businesses that give women a platform, I want to feature you. So if you text the word podcast to 310-496-8363, you can get your questions answered on our Q and A segment along with a shout out. And if you rate, review and subscribe to this podcast, we're choosing someone every month to get coached and featured on our show. It just might be you. So let's get started. Hey everyone, welcome back to the show and today is such a great day because you get two for the price of one. Essentially. We've got two guests on here.

I have two incredible women that I am interviewing you guys.

I interviewed the women from the Product Boss and they have this amazing podcast called the Product Boss Podcast. Today I have on the show Jacqueline Snyder and Mina Canolo Seth up. Jacqueline is a fashion designer and a product startup expert who has helped launch over a thousand product brands over the last 12 years, including celebrity Celebrity brands. Mina is a product business expert with a vast knowledge of Amazon and product based business growth strategies. She has a Master's of Business administration and over 15 years of entrepreneurial experience. Jacqueline and Mina are the combined force behind the Product Boss podcast. They have grown a community of high achieving product based small business owners and have helped them scale their physical product business through masterminds, group coaching and digital courses designed specifically for product based business owners ranging from startup conception to multimillion dollar companies. Together, their goal is to change the landscape of product product entrepreneurship by connecting women around the world through a blend of real life business tactics, creative strategy and modern leadership. This podcast is for anyone who is potentially thinking of launching a product, who wants to grow their product. And I made sure that we covered people who were coaches, who covered people who also had products online, who had E courses, who had digital products. So we really ran the gamut of everything. If you're thinking of starting a business in any form. But the reason I want you to really listen in is because I did not think that I would ever have an actual physical product. And it wasn't until I really started talking to other people and its potential and people who were already in this that I got really excited about dreaming up an entire world of possibilities in.

This realm as well.

So I hope that it sparks something in you or helps grow that thing that you want to do or that business that you already have. So let's get started.

Jacqueline and Mina, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thanks Larry.

We're so thrilled to be here.

I was just telling you. Well, number one, you guys, you can't see this, but they both have the cutest pink microphones ever and I feel super left out. So I just have this boring silver one. Number two, I have been listening to your podcast and I absolutely love it because I am launching a product and I need all the help that I can get. And you guys are the experts in launching products and it's so much fun.

Just to hear from both of you.

And your different backgrounds and just different perspectives and you have these epic guests on who have products. So you're absolutely the people that people want to start tuning into.

Even if you're you guys, even if.

You don't have a product like this really will get your wheels turning on what is possible because maybe you're not even thinking of that thing yet and this will open you up. So you guys, thank you so much for being here. I would love for you to chat number one. Like I said, you have an epic podcast call the Product Boss. But tell me about the business that you two have together and where this started. I know you have a collective like crazy amount of experience between you two. So let's chat about that.

Thanks. Yeah. So like you said, we have the Product Boss podcast courses, masterminds for product based business owners and where we do help product based business owners build profitable businesses and we do that with strategies that improve their systems. We grow their visibility and ultimately help them make more sales. Right. We need new businesses to get, you know, break even as profitable as fast as they can because everyone's limited on time and money. And then we also scale businesses so we have makers, people that have really come off of Etsy or Even the top 1% of Etsy that are in our community and they've turned into multimillion dollar brands with teams. We have a large amount of women, like female run businesses which we're so proud of. We're really trying to help them break their own glass ceilings because a lot of times we see that they have their own limits and caps to what they think they can make and we want to just expose everyone to see, see that there are many paths to profit and each of them look different. So if you want to be a multi six figure, if you want to be an eight figure business, you do you and we're here to support you.

Have you always been passionate about products? Like what got you guys both into this?

It's a good question.

I think with every entrepreneur it's kind of happenstance in a little bit of a way. Right. So you go through life and you're just moving along. For me, I come from very much what you would say is the more modern version of selling products. Jacqueline is more the traditional where she went through wholesale trade shows. We have collectively 28 years of experience. So I've been an entrepreneur since 2004. Essentially. It's been really a journey of many things. So I started out, my background is a graphic designer, but corporate graphic designer basically. I worked on annual reports, print media, things that things of that nature. And then when I had my second daughter, I was pretty burnt out. I worked with a lot of agencies, I worked with a lot of banks and that sort of thing. And I thought I should create a product and put it on Amazon. Actually, that's not the full truth. My husband found a way to do it and he said, you should do this. And I was like, I am on board. And so I just figured that out. I think growing up, I was always very book smart. You know, I was great at taking tests, that sort of thing. So I just learned everything I could about Amazon, about creating a product. And it came really actually very naturally because I, since I was in the corporate graphic design field, I knew how manufacturing worked on the back end. So I created a labels company and I knew about commercial printing and different adhesives and labels, and it all came together. Then fast forward, I was mentioned on a podcast for someone who knew a lot about Amazon. And I'm very much introverted. So it was very much like when I heard my name, I cringed. And when Jacqueline heard my name, which I'm in Iowa, she was at that time in California because she's bicoastal, her ears peaked up and she thought, hey, I'm going to reach out to Mina and see if she can help me with Amazon. I think Jacqueline certainly tells this story in a much better way than I do. We call it our love story. But essentially we met online.

Yeah, we are business partners. Yes. Yesterday we were counting. We're like, I think we've only maybe seen each other 12 to 15 times in real life, same person, but we've built, you know, we've built this, this huge business together. And I mean, she's, like I said, my life partner. My background is I'm a fashion designer. So I went to school as a fashion designer. I've worked at big brands as a designer. And then when I was 26, I ended up actually leav corporate and becoming a consultant and helping people design and launch their own fashion brands. So for the last 15 years, I've launched over 2,000 fashion brands. I always tell people it's like 1,999 more than they've ever had to launch. I mean, and hopefully that's the case. And so I am a consultant for the fashion industry and for launching brands. And so I had my own accessories brand. Back when I met Nina, I was trying to liquidate it. I had two kids. I was like, I can't have this consulting business and this brand lot. And it was a wearable wrist wallet. And our phones got bigger and everyone asked, where does your phone go? So it's like, forget it. So I reached out to her about Amazon. I was like, can I liquidate on Amazon? And we had a coffee chat online. And she was like, you don't liquidate, you build a brand. And then we just took that conversation off Facebook and moved it to. We actually voxed each other. We found our limit on how long you can do voxer for. Yeah. And just back and forth talk. And then I'm very much a kickstart and visionary. And I was hosting a trade show at the LA Textile show and they asked me to host a panel and I asked Mina if she wanted to fly. Meet me be on this panel about multiple streams of revenue, because that was the actual original topic. And then I was like, and by the way, should we sell a mastermind to some of these fashion people after and see if they, you know, need community? Because there wasn't a lot of community. Right. It wasn't about collaboration and community. Everyone felt very individual and on their own island. So we did it. We sold out. And that was the beginning of the product. Boss.

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Oh, my God.

Okay, we saw that gap.

That is like, that is so amazing that right away you had this. Here's how it happens, right? Like, you get these opportunities that look just like an opportunity of, like, maybe you think it's speaking, but actually when you really realize it, like, I hope everybody listening knows, like, if you get an opportunity to be on a podcast, if you get an opportunity to be on a stage, like, what are you going to be able to funnel them into? And, like, how can you serve them more afterward? Because a lot of times we forget that, like, just the podcast or the time on stage is. You can't help that those people as.

Much as you want to.

So it's actually one of the biggest served for those people. Cause if someone resonates with you guys in the audience, which of course they're going to, you know, there's going to be people that resonate with you. Where do they get to go to, you know, get more education from the people that they resonate with. So I love that you saw that and you were like, how do we make sure that we have something for these people, you know, when we do this? So I love that you turned it around really fast. Cause I think where people get stuck is they're like, maybe there's not enough time to do it. So how did you work with that? Like, how did you just whip something out quick or what went from there?

I mean, welcome to the growth of the product, boss. So it was basically putting together this panel, and Mina and I were just messaging back and forth, and we were like, what do they need to know? And what she said, how I come from the traditional realm and she's more of that new realm. At that point it was like she could get onto Amazon and just start selling a product immediately to a bunch of customers. I came from the fashion world where it really was about trade shows, fashion shows selling wholesale. So I think we, we do very well brainstorming. We're kind of like a ping pong match. We go back and forth. You might see that in this podcast where I have an idea, she has an idea. We back and forth, we flesh it out. And I think the idea here is like, you just don't get stuck. Now listen, we had never met before. I was staying at my brother's house in la and I was like, yeah, she's gonna fly in. Can she stay at your house with me? And we're gonna start a business together. He's like, you've never met her before in your Life? No, we FaceTime, I have a feeling we're fine. But the idea there is taking those chances, right? What's the worst that's gonna happen? That someone's gon not going to take you up on it, you know, or you try it and you, and you work through it. So it was, it was very much like we had collaborated. We did it, we launched it. We had one sheet of paper that we passed out to the entire room and we're like, if you want this, they met us in the hallway and like we literally signed people in a hallway with our phones. So I think it's that it doesn't have to be perfect. You just have to try it and then you can perfect it as you go.

Oh my God. So good. Yes. Thank God you guys had the paper to sign.

And it was like, if you see the paper and you read what you like, what you read, meet us out in the hallway and speak to us. About 15 minutes. It was really like that.

I have done that. I'm laughing so hard because I have totally done that. Like, you're just like hustling in the hallway, like making it happen. It's so good. Okay, so we're going to talk about that. You had mentioned multi streams of income and anyone who listens to the show, you guys know that like so much of my story is about making sure that you have multi streams of income. Because we had one and we lost it all. And it was one of the most challenging experiences of my entire life. And that was when we were like, never again. We're gonna make sure we just keep adding to these streams of income in case one goes away. Because if we Learned anything from 2020 as well, or the recession, and God, I don't even know when that was now 2009, it's that things can just disappear overnight. So I love this conversation. Tell me why you guys are so obsessed with this conversation.

I mean, this is literally what we teach. Our purpose is really focusing on those multiple streams of income. And I think it's sometimes hard for people to wrap their minds around because it seems like you're doing a whole bunch of a lot of things when you aren't. You're leaning into what has works for you, you know, so it's just, you're taking, you know, the way that we teach it is you take your products, your bestsellers, you know, that's what you do for a service based person. It's your gifts, it's, it's the customer you're attracting, all of those things and you just move it to another platform as well in addition. So you're really just leaning into that. It's not trying all these new things though. It is, there's that test and try on that new platform and you're seeing what kind of takes off and what doesn't. So we'll teach people on. There's so many quote unquote platforms that we can really think about, right? There's for the physical product space, there's Amazon, there's trade shows which are in person, let's say having your own website, there's social media, there's other people's platforms that they've created themselves. And so all of these things that never ever, even in 2008, because both Jacqueline and I, we actually grew our businesses during that time of that recession, right? And because innovation happens during that time, people start pivoting, they get really creative, they get really scrappy. And we see that happening and we kind of bring it together in that you move forward in creating a business that you want. But it's really just like what you said. We've seen people who are on Etsy, for example, and they get knocked off of Etsy. Like they get shut down on Etsy because of trademark or copyright infringement. Whoever knows why anything happens and then they're stuck because what can they do now? And same with last year, we saw in person get shut down. Who would have thought that would have happened? So we really just want to bring that same mindset and the tools to the small business because never have we ever gotten the opportunity for me on Amazon selling next to Avery labels, for example. Right. You get to play in the same playgrounds that you would never have gotten to before because of technology, because of people creating their own platforms, because of social media. And that has really just given us purpose and bringing, you know, shining a light on small businesses the way that we do.

I love that. So you guys have kind of a three step system to what you are calling the multi stream machine, which is going to help people kind of diversify their streams of income. I know that a lot of people on here, we definitely have people who have products, but I would say most of them are more service based as well. So maybe just as you explain it, if you could bring them into like what the possibilities are with that, if you guys are cool with that or have like kind of. Do you have people in your masterminds who also do like service based things or. Okay, cool, awesome.

All right, perfect.

So because I'm interested in both too. So I want to hear both. So you have the kind of three steps, the systems, visibility and sales. I would love if you guys would kind of walk us through those.

Absolutely. So just to quickly touch on what you're saying, you know, a lot of times and listen, Mina and I both are service based. Like my consulting business is service based. So sometimes from that perspective, a lot of us, and probably most of us have had an idea for a product, right. It might be a product that you can supplement or you think that could be a tool for your clients or your audience. And we're all about that. You can add that on. The thing that people don't realize and you're building a product business is that there's the. When you start a service business, you can kind of just get a website, get online, start to tell people what you do and start to transact product based businesses. You need inventory, right? There's development, there's inventory, there's production. And so you start to have a little bit more risk, there's a little bit more financial risk. And we definitely have episodes about this too. But where you could do a minimal viable product, you can test things. If you have an audience, you can pull them. A lot of people sometimes want to do journals or notebooks and it's like, can you do a digital version and see if they like it and see if they want to buy a physical version? So there's a lot of ways to like play with it before you invest fully into a product. Now if you have an audience, you know they're going to buy like we're friends with Angie Lee and she, you know, with her CBD gummies, she had an audience there that wanted to buy what she had to sell. So and then the flip side sometimes is we have a business that we work with in one of our, she's a student of ours in multi shoe machine and in our masterminds and she is a naturopathic doctor who specialized in eczema for children. And so because of that she came out with a product. Now in coaching her, she was going to come out with something totally different in terms of an online course. It was actually the flip side, right? So she was like a service first, then she came out with a product. Then she wanted to do a digital course and the digital course was not aligned with what people were coming for. They wanted eczema cream. So we flipped it and we taught her we'll do an eczema course or an eczema download and then at the back end of that course sell the product that you have to sell, solve that solution or be a solution to their problem. So that's that first question. The second part is the three tier system of like systems, visibility and sales for multi stream machines. So that's our signature program. And what we see there is, and it's across the board, like we have multimillion dollar businesses in there, we have startups in there. Mina and I have been through it. We've had our own brands, I've consulted so many people, we've worked, we have thousands and thousands of students and we've seen consistently that there are roadblocks that they're going to hit or potholes or places that we say are leaking money in the boat or there's holes in the boat. So as much as you're trying to row forward, if you're losing money, what's happening? So the systems part's really important and we dig into that on these four key systems. There's tons of systems you can implement in your business. But what we really focus on is your photos, your pricing. Those are two essential things. If your photos are not good, people are not going to buy. If your pricing is not, you know, appropriate, you're not gonna be able to scale, there's not gonna be profitability there. And then the two other big things that are important for product businesses is shipping systems and inventory systems. So once we get that all squared away and we're like, okay, now you're ready to grow and that's in the program, then we move into visibility because visibility and sales go hand in hand. Where you're visible in front of other people's audiences. If you got onto Amazon, if Amazon was right for your business, Amazon has way more customers than we'll ever be able to get, you know, with Facebook ads or anything. And so the idea or getting an influencer to, you know, sell your product or to be on another website for another, like a wholesale shop that bought you, so you're just getting in front of other eyes. So we really work on that brand awareness. Yeah. So it's organic marketing. We're all about organic here at the product boss. What can you do from home with your iPhone? There's a little bit that you pay for, like in terms of great photos and, you know, maybe getting onto different platforms and then also the selling side. So without a gatekeeper, these are places that you can get up and running on in the next weekend and start to sell. We've had people get on Amazon immediately and start to sell. We've had people reach out to wholesale stores and get wholesale orders within their first week of the program. So it's just a really robust program. But I will say that we help them pick their path to profit. Everybody's path to profit is different. So, Laurie, your journey might look very different than someone else who wants to launch a product. And we help you find your way there. Right?

There are so many challenges to business that I don't want starting to be.

One of them for you.

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So this is what I'm actually learning about right now. Real time because Amazon is a really like fricking amazing way to get in front of eyes. But right now for me I believe I would, it wouldn't be super profitable for like the non alcoholic beverage just because of shipping and all the things which I need to lear a little bit more about. But how do you know which platform is right for you? Like how can you know how much profit you're going to make before you get on there?

Yeah, I think that that starts with the systems first. That's why we always have the systems first because if your pricing is not correct, you know, sometimes people price and they can only go direct to consumer. But in the, I don't know, old days, you know, whatever it is, you have to price so you can grow in any sort of way. So it's usually wholes markup that goes into a retail markup that's with anything it's different across categories. Especially if it is cosmetics or alcohol or non alcohol or beverages. It's different in each one in a way that you need to build in the room because Amazon is going to take 15% and then they're going to charge you also per month to be on there. Now same with Etsy, they're going to charge you but you're in front of eyes that you've never been able to get in front of before. So you have to as a small business utilize everything, you know, to your, you know, the biggest potential that you can. You don't waste any time on there, you know. And so our Amazon module in there is get onto Amazon if it's right for you because it isn't right for everybody, you know, and you don't know what path is right for you. And I think as the business owner, this is something we do in multi stream machine as well as in our masterminds is that we try to up level our business owners because it takes a little bit of coaching and guidance. Also takes mindset work and it takes understanding what is right for your business and the vision that you have for it. Sometimes people want teams, sometimes they don't. Sometimes people want the products to be one arm of their business and they want to essentially only do service, whatever that looks like. That's what we mean by path to profit because we meet 7, 8 figure 9 figure business women all the time and they've all gotten there somewhere different. Sometimes they have software or tech companies, sometimes they're authors and they've blown up, Sometimes they have an audience, sometimes they don't. And so even in the case of product and the reason why I think Jacqueline and I have been. Our podcast does so well is because we speak to that specific market. We saw the gap, we saw the gap of people feeling really alone. But that's not to say that they don't feel alone in service either or in those other realms because I think as entrepreneurs we're on a roller coaster. And even Jack and I finding each other, I think you find partners along the way and you start seeing, oh, okay, this is my path. And it doesn't seem like who would have thought that my name would have been mentioned on a podcast which was at that time, now I'm a podcaster. Right at that time it was like I did not love it because I was so introverted. And then Jacqueline hears it and then she changes my life and I change her life. So you never know what path is really going to be it. There is testing and trying, but you as a business owner need to have that self awareness and that development in order to know what choices are right for you.

So how about for the service based people with this visibility portion, what would you say to. I don't know. I would say we have a lot of just health coaches, life coaches, people with events, books, things like that, that for the visibility portion and like really mixing that up.

Yeah, it's a great question. I mean we believe that there's room at the top for all of us and we believe it amongst everyone. Right. And I think a lot of times we feel competitive with other, especially in coaching. Right. I, you know, but we can't, we can't take all the people and we're not right for all the people. So I think what I see, what I saw happen in 2020 and what we see moving forward is collaboration. So as we're looking for visibility, it is about that collaboration on other people's platforms. Right. So, so social media, the fact that Instagram now has those rooms that multiple people can do Instagram lives together, we've seen that happen on Clubhouse. We've connected with people. I mean we've missed conferences and meeting people and so being on those other platforms and starting to really kind of meet up and say, hey, we speak the same language or we have similar audiences, like let's do this together. So I think that visibility play first will start, especially in the coaching world with collaboration, networking and then showing up, showing up authentically. So showing your face if you can or if you don't. We have a lot of introverts in our world. So if you don't want to show your face, how can you represent yourself? What are you putting out there? That is as if they are getting to know you, but maybe it's not your face, maybe it's text. So social media is amazing. We've got new platforms like Clubhouse. Obviously, people have been on TikTok. We find video really important, and it's really about connection. Now. I feel like before it was like, oh, I have a person in between.

We have a formula. I mean, if you want to think of it as a formula, but before, it used to be enough where you could become aware of a brand and, you know, you'd follow them and then maybe you'd buy from them. Now it's different, right? There's that extra piece in there where it's not a monologue, it's a dialogue. So the formula essentially is it's discoverability. So making them aware of you like you're a star in the universe. Here I am, you know, but the second part of that is engagement. You have to pull them in. It's not enough for you just to show up anymore. You actually have to engage. So you have to pull them in. You have to show up and care about them, ask them questions. And then on top of it, we're seeing lots of hybrid things happening. So a meeting of online and offline. So visibility, meaning that while you can still show up online, you still have to care about what their life looks like. Like, offline, you still perhaps even, you know, if you are showing up online as an E commerce or whether it be a coach online, you still could make connections with local brick and mortars where you could potentially coach their students. You know, so there's this hybrid of things happening because of everybody being forced online last year, and now everybody's, you know, shining in this whole new world. It feels like they really want this connection. And then also video, like Jacqueline said of it being where it used to be, where it had to be curated and, you know, professionally put together. And I think that that was lifted the instant that everybody forced our kids to be with us constantly or, you know, or we're on this household. And so there's a lot more grace in that and so bringing that imperfection in. And videos are different now. People want realness, whereas before they might have wanted aspirational content.

That, yes, I feel like I've seen that total shift. Just so many people. I remember the pressure of just like doing my hair and makeup to show up on video, and now I'm like, I. I am so sorry, guys. I just can't. I literally, it's. It's a special day if you see me all, you know, jazzed up. Okay. I love the. The visibility piece. So, you know, just for people louder in the background, like, just saying it again. Like, can we talk about why visibility is. So I think that it's like, like you said with. With introverts, I heard. I think it was Mel Robbins who was like, if you're not visible, you're literally invisible. Like, if you're not becoming somewhat visible, you're invisible. So how.

How as an introvert, do we kind.

Of like, pick the platforms and just, like, go for it? What advice do you have for those people who it's like, yeah, but this is painful. And if I have to be visible all the time, maybe I don't want to do this. Are there any ways around it? What do we do do?

Well, it's painful.

I mean, it's always painful.

You guys, you got to know Mina and I, we say we're like one half of each of the same brain. Like, we don't share a single letter in the Myers Briggs personality test. We're exact opposite.

That's so cool.

Yeah, so we're, you know, so we fill in for each other. But Mina is highly introverted and to the point. I'm just going to share this. She would go to the grocery store with, like, a hood on, like, as if she was a celebrity.

I love that. You know why, though? It's because people. I have a very friendly face. So no matter what, people try to talk to me and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Really? It might be normal.

It might be like, can you move your cart? And she's like, they're all talking to me.

We need to, like, teach her how to get that, like, angry bitch face, you know?

Right now she loves it because she can wear a mask so nobody can see her face.

Really helped. And people thought that that was in my head. And then I go. I went the to grocery store with my sister and she. There are people literally would stop us to chat with us. And then she's like, I think it's true. They really love talking to you. I was like, I know, I know.

So this is who Mina. This is. This is Mina. Right? So when I first met her, she was like. And she knew that she could talk. I think we found that in voice. Right? So when we sort of box ring each other, which is a voice app, and it's messages back and forth, there's like Marco Polo, things like that. She was very comfortable with with her voice, and I Think we developed that, but that's what we teach. We're like, you just have to try something and then you have to develop it. Even though I'm slightly more extroverted, I'm married to an extreme extrovert. Like I married an actor. So I was always the quiet one next to him, and I was like, oh, all these actors are going at it.

He's a Broadway actor. And there ain't any other actor more.

Extroverted than acapella at parties. It's so embarrassing. I mean, and I'm always just like, okay, I'm just gonna sit here quietly while you guys do you.

So.

So in situations, we're different than. We're different, right? Like, if my husband. I'm not the extroverted one with Mina. I'm like the hyper extroverted. But now look at her. She's like, take the mic and tell jokes on stage. But what I think it is is it's finding what works for you. So I think what happens is there's this pressure that everyone thinks we have to be everywhere at the same time. We all have to be on Instagram, we all do videos, we all have to get on Clubhouse. I feel that YouTube channels. Oh, my God. So I think it's finding the marketing that works best for you and then being consistent at it and showing up. So if it's something where. If you are using social as a platform, then you find your way there, right? Do they want to see your face or you're talking head? Are you engaging in a different way? There's different ways that we've seen people grow on social without it always having to be their faces. I think the same with ads, marketing. There's text messaging, so you find the thing that feels very. So for me, getting on video and talking, like auditory processing, getting on video is really easy. If I'm doing sales calls with people, I'll send them a video or like a response. I'll send them a video. Mina's better at writing. Mina's better. Kind of like the thinking of her thoughts through writing. But we've also both had to take on these other roles or learn even though it feels uncomfortable. We've had to also kind of adapt to that as well as we've adapted.

I think it's. It's just a skill, right? And I will tell you, for all of you that are extra or introverts out there that you need to skill build, because there is nothing better than video that will skill build for you in anything you ever do. In your life because you're learning a lot about yourself. You're pushing into something that's hard for everybody, even extroverts, because even Jacqueline and I had also a friend that was a TV reporter and, you know, it was an ebb and flow. It was not like she was. Was, oh, check that box. I'm confident on video. It was definitely like it really dependent on the day. And so even Jaclyn now, who you know, and myself, we've done tens of thousands of videos. I mean, just gazillion of videos and putting our face out there, you, you still. It's just a muscle, a development and a skill that you constantly kind of chip away at and just depends on the day of how confident you are feeling that day. Because you're never just going to be able to say, I'm always comfortable with putting myself out there because you'll keep expanding further and further and further to how comfortable you can get. And so what I like to tell people is that it does get better, but you have to work that muscle when it's hard. And that's the part that's really hard for people is that they don't want to work the muscle when it's hard. So there'll be times where we actually do a hot tip Tuesday for our email list. List, and it's on video. And I. It's literally just a short video. It's supposed to be only five minutes. And it took me, I think, like three hours one day. And Jaclyn's like, well, I can just do it because there's, you know, as co CEOs, basically, you know, there's things that I could do that would. My time would be better spent. But I was determined because I want to do things even on the days that I don't want to because that's when my muscle gets worked the most, you know. And so I did it. I sent it out there and everybody felt really relieved because they were like, like, oh, I always felt like this is really hard and that means that I shouldn't do it. But that's exactly why you should do it. So even as we're introverts, I think that consumers are different now. And whether that's they're buying a service or a product, they're demanding to know who's behind the scenes. They want to know where their dollar is going. So if you're a coach, if you're a product business, you have to show your face. And it's because they want to support things that are Important. They're just more thoughtful with their dollars. So it might be social injustices that they're supporting or specific products that have a mission behind them or coaches that believe in a certain thing. That's why it's a great thing when you have a bunch of visibility and you're able to attract the right people. But the better thing is that you actually learn to repel the right people, because there's probably better people out there for them anyways. And you have to get comfortable with keeping putting yourself out there, and maybe you're just not going to be for everybody. That's just, you know, how it works out. And even. Even to the point of, you know, like, for myself and Jacqueline, we hit it off because we spoke the same language, right? Inventory, shipping, all these different things. Our love language, we called it. She wasn't the first product person I've met. Just happened to hit it off because we aligned in a lot of different ways. So I think that as you go through life, you'll start seeing things that, oh, this is really easy, or this is not really easy, or, you know, whatever it is. And then you start meeting people that kind of pull different things out of you, and that's why you have to keep, like, moving forward with it. It's not going to be easy all the time. It's a mindset thing. A lot of times, you know, it's like, I can do hard things. I will do hard things, and, you know, and I actually need to do hard things, and that'll just keep changing.

Oh, I love this. Okay, so on that note, you just brought something up that made me want.

To ask the question to both of you.

What now feels like second nature? That at first felt horribly painful and, like, you would never actually understand it or get it.

I have an answer, but, Jacob, you go first.

I would say video being comfortable on video, even though I, you know, I still got sweaty talking on stages, I did that. That was my way of getting out in front of people as a coach. Right. I'd go to markets that made sense. My customers were there. I would. I would speak on a panel or I'd host a panel or have some sort of presentation. Still nervous, you know, and then video was nervous, too, because I, like I said, I process through voice, and sometimes, like, am I jumbled? Am I saying it right, but then listening to it later, I am. And so I think it's that confidence. The other thing is, is leadership. So 2020 was a ride, and while Mina and I were growing and we had A big community. It wasn't what it is now, and it was in what had happened. I tend to step forward. I'm the oldest of five kids. I tend to be like, we need to help people. Let's say something, let's do something. And Mina's response was kind of like, let's pull back and wait and see what happens. And so I think no matter which approach we had to it and we did step forward and we were going live every day we're getting people online. We're like, you need to get online immediately. Because so many of our people were brick and mortars or they sold it. You know, it just, it got. Everything happened. So I think getting comfortable with leadership and then what happens with leadership? So more visibility, the expectations and like, the pressure of just kind of seeing like, I'm trying to figure this out. I think I'm. I'm helping figure it out. I don't have all the answers. So it's that vulnerability in leadership as well, but still taking a stand and moving forward. And so I think that courage also is something that we've developed and feel way more a year later, a lot more comfortable in that position.

So good. Thank you for sharing that too. And that, that was just last year. You know, it's so powerful because I think people just sit and they, they're.

Like, oh, they got it all together.

And you're like, no, no.

Last year, my show is falling apart. I do, though, I think that it's a gift in a way. When my daughter was four months old, she. She had open heart surgery and I went through a really big trauma. Just everything, it was so hard. And after that, though, I had such a shift in perspective. And so I think that when you're going through trauma and people haven't figured out that they went through trauma during 2020, but it was a really hard year emotionally. We all went through something. And I think that the gift out of all of that for. Especially for you, all that are introverts, is now you can just flip this way. If somebody's like, hey, I didn't see you showing, you know, or you weren't like this before, then you just need to. You mentally say, yeah, 20. What 2020 taught me is that now I want to live my life like this.

Yes.

Take whatever you can from 2020 and live your life like this. Now, are you guys all okay with the, you know, rating of 5 throughout your life? Probably not. You know, you probably want to live to the rating of 10. I don't know what Scale are we on? Right, so we'll go to 10.

We'll pick 10 for this one.

Yeah. Right. So I think that it's that change in perspective that people need to really embrace, that we are all looking inward. And then now you can just use it for all the people that say, oh, I'm concerned about what people think. I'm concerned about this and that. Well, if anything taught you about 2020, it did not matter. It did not matter. Just live your life. And if anybody has any judgment on you, you say, well, now I know that this is how I want to live my life. That's what, 2020.

Yeah, blame it on 2020. Remember the Milli Vanilli song, Blame it on the Rain? We're just gonna do that one.

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It'S an interesting thing because I think so many people are looking for or the biggest fear around changing or like leaping into this or being seen or judgment is usually from like our close friends and family, like, oh, you're different, or who do you think you are to do this? And you're like, this has always been me. I just have been covered up by the bullshit of life and 2020 kind of stuff. Strip that away. So for you guys, what do you feel is something that you and I know that we have one more thing to get to on here, sales, which we will. So that's coming in a second. But what is something that you want to live into this year? Like, what is something you want to strip away that you're still feeling is a bit of a block for both of you, maybe around even just your business? Maybe let's do a business and a personal.

Oh, this is really hard. I think one of the. It's a little bit hard because I think we've become clearer in our voice and we've really developed in the things that matter to us and the things that don't. I think, though, one of the things that we really want to lean into is women and money. So there is definitely. We weren't sure how to talk about it. We weren't sure if that's something that we wanted to talk about or how we wanted to talk about it. And I think that that's kind of evolved, and now it's more. So we really want to talk about just living the life that you want to. If it's, you know, a million dollars, you don't have to say, oh, I made a million dollars, but I gave away a lot to charity. I love this. And, you know, we as women make these excuses or we justify the money that we're making. And a man never does that. That they don't. And so. And then the things that we say really seep into our kids. Our kids have been home with us. So it's like even talking about is, you know, mama is working, and that's how she makes money. Not that, oh, she's not doing these other things, like, oh, who is she going to get to wash the dishes? You know, who knows? You know? So I think that the conversation. Conversation has just changed, and I think that's what we're going to lean into more so is just removing that for people, normalizing that and really making that part of the conversation. That feels very natural now.

I love that. How about personal?

Personal? What I'm going to lean into for sure is health. I think that as an entrepreneur, I'm always push, push, push. And I kept thinking that if I was to focus on my health, it meant slowing down. And I think that for me, it more so is a flip of. Instead of pushing outward, I'm pushing inward My health is inward. What is making me happy now, and what are the things I need and what are the things I have to continue to work on? That's one of the mindset shifts that I've made, is that before I used to think for sure that everything was, you do it and you move along. You do it and you move along. And now it's more like everything is a restart always, but you're further along in the process. So. So, for instance, like, if you practice gratitude and you're journaling, if you stop doing it, it's okay, just start again, you know, it's a process. Everything is a process. Instead of a, you know, now I'm there, and voila. I'm so great at journaling, you know?

Yeah.

Forever.

No, it's so funny that just, like, made me think I was so good at meditating for so long, and now I'm, like, pretty bad at it. And I'm like, that's okay. We're just. We'll just take what we can get right now. And sometimes those are the periods in your life, Right. Like, sometimes it's gonna be a little less and you can get back on the wa. And you didn't break anything and nothing, like, got messed up. It's just like, okay, let's get back on. I love that you're gonna have seasons of.

You're restarting from a different perspective. You're probably a different person than you were when you first started.

Yeah.

You know.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. Okay. How about you with the. I'm like, what was my original question? Do you remember?

Yes, I think I do.

Okay, great.

So for me, I guess from a personal standpoint, but this might be business as well, and I think a lot of you might feel this way too out there is like, you look at other people and you think, oh, they have what I want. Right. Or they. They're living a better life or the grass is greener. And I think one thing that I saw happen during COVID when we had to stay home and we saw this, even the product entrepreneurs selling really well in this category, was people were improving their homes, right? They were. They were, like Nina said, focusing inward, and they were focusing inward at home. And so what I realized is like. Like pre pandemic, the idea of. And this is on Instagram, right? How beautiful is your house? Like, what does everything look like? And when you had people over, like, what do things look like to the outside? And having concern for me, having a concern for what other people thought all of a Sudden, it didn't matter. I was home just with my kids and my husband and my dog. And it was like, how do I feel about it? So I think taking. Moving forward, what I'm working through and working on is like, what's really authentic to me. Like, going back to. I feel like it's when you're in high school and you're doing all the things. Like, in high school, I used to do painting classes and I rode horses and I was volunteering. It was all those things. You were just kind of living your best life without expectation because it's what you wanted to do. And so now I think moving forward, it's like, what do I want? What do I want? And it's outside of business, too. Like, what do I want my life to look like now that we have this? We were shut down for so long. Do I want to travel more? But what fits me best? Like, I'm a fashion designer, but I've lost my sense of fashion. Like, I don't even know what I want to look like anymore. Because you get so pulled in from everybody else's looks. You're on Instagram, you're on Pinterest. So really trying to rediscover myself and think authentically to, like, what do I need? And when I'm comfortable with that, then that's all that matters. And I think it's the same with business. It's how do we want to run our business? And it doesn't matter how other people are running their businesses. It's how. How do we want to do it? And having a business partner, I mean, you have, you know, you work with your husband, but we have very different ways of doing business. Mina, if she were to look at my desktop, she would judge me for all of the apps that are.

I would not judge you a little.

All the windows that are open. Right. I used to, like, clean up my desktop before I saw her. And then I realized she's like, that's.

Why I didn't I judge you. It always looked great.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But then I realized that's the way my brain works. So as a visionary, as a co CEO in this business, in my role, and this is same for all of you out there. How does your brain work? And you as the visionary in your business, like, that's perfect the way that you are. And so when we're like, oh, if only I were to put things in file folders on my computer, that's not my. I can still find stuff the same way Mina can, maybe Somebody else couldn't, but I could find it and that's all that really matters. So I think it's just really leaning into who we are and being comfortable with that.

Oh, I completely resonate. I kind of. My EA is just like so freaking amazing. And that's how she. She's so organized and I just feel so much shame on my desktop every time I pull it up. But I'm like, hey, I find it. And she's got the folder. So together. Together. We are so solid.

Yeah.

So I love that. And you do, like, instead of like holding on to. For both of you, holding onto the things that don't work. Like, I love this. So just leaning into collaboration. Exactly what you guys talked about and what's so important moving forward for visibility is this really leaning in with collaboration and knowing, like, wait, she holds that strength. So essentially I have the strength. Like, I also have that strength. Like, I get to wear that jacket too. I get to wear that cape as well. And that's been really huge for me. Whereas I think the old paradigm was, you know, I remember when I first first put on an event nine years ago, I would, I. I shied away from having a speaker who I thought was like, better than me because I was afraid that people would like, not come back to my stuff or, like, not. It was the weirdest. Like, when I actually look at how we used to all think, like how a lot of us girls were kind of like, raised was just to have that competitive nature with other women because they might take what you have, have. And it's like, oh my God, I was missing out on. So I mean, I'm missing. I was missing out on what? Life. What I've learned is my favorite parts of life. And it's like having these epic women with these incredible talents, like all around you, epic human beings. Right. So I love watching even just like seeing the strengths within you two. And I can see why it's such a beautiful partnership. I'm absolutely loving it. So, okay, let's talk about the sales portion. I don't think we fully completed the multi stream machine final piece.

Yes.

So remember we talked about systems that's saving you money. Essentially, visibility is potential money, money in the pipeline and sales is money in the pocket. Where's the money happening? So in that case, it is where. And actually there's crossover invisibility and in sales, because when you think about Instagram, you're selling on there. Yeah. You know, transactionally too. And then now with actual platforms. So in our case, we Talk about Amazon, we talk about wholesale, we talk about in person events and that sort of thing. But I do think that for.

For.

You, Lori, for example, you know, there's the, where you're selling your book, there's your retreats that you've had before. There's things that are bringing money in that you can actually keep the machine going in that way. And like I said, there's overlap in the visibility side of it. But it also just makes it so that when you're bringing in that money that you're stabilized on the back end. Right. You have the systems, but you're always marketing out to the people and attracting the right people to you. So that's really what the sales part is about, is all of marketing and sales put together. It's the conversion piece that we're talking about, you know, and so a lot of times with service, it has to do a lot with the salesperson. It has to do with connecting with them in a certain way. It has to do with them being the right person, especially picking a coach. You actually have to like the way they teach. There's. Even if you do a health coach, there's some people that like the yell in your face, keep you accountable sort of boot camp type of, you know, health coach. Let's say there's other ones that are like, oh, educational ones. Here's why. Here's the science behind it. Here's how your body works, you know, and it kind of eases your brain. And like, scientifically, the math adds up, the science adds up, you know, the calories and the intake. And there's other ones that are just your friend and you love spending time with them and they're cheerleading you.

Totally.

They encourage you. So I think that there's like different sales. And I think that for all of you out there, you have to know that you all have a say. You all have the ability to sell. You all do. And it's figuring out what that looks like for you. So a lot of people will say, I'm just horrible at sales. Yeah. The way that you think about it, perhaps you're thinking of a sleazy salesman on the corner showing you watches and his.

Well, it's like he opens his coat, it's like, oh, you want my watches? You want to buy these watches?

Where is that guy?

You know, I run into him.

Yeah. But, you know, it just is different for you and how you sell. I actually am probably great at, at selling in a way that I can resonate with a certain amount. Certain people that resonate with me. Right. It's my version of nuanced selling, let's say. But to say that I'm horrible at selling, that's only just capping me in how I think about myself.

So good. Okay, so who is this program for? Great question.

So Multi Shape Machine is, it's great for people who sell physical products. So we do have, have brick and mortars and their retailers and we also have people that are making or manufacturing products and they need to sell it. It's not ideal if you're a direct seller. We do have direct sellers in there, but it's not ideal for that. People who are just starting ask, should I join? And I actually, because I'm a consultant for so long and I've helped so many startups, I actually think it's really important to know your path to profit and to know how to sell. So as you're coming out, you know, as you're developing your business, if you didn't already have a way to sell and it, it feels like you're stuck, you're like, okay, I'm going to make this, I'm going to invest all this money, but where am I selling? So to have that roadmap, to have those decisions kind of pre made and then testing them, I want to go back to the sales part. You can do everything, you just can't do it all at once. So even with sales we really have you. Usually you'll have one main platform that you're really leaning into and then you might have a secondary and then it's those options as you grow, what can you handle? What other platforms can you get on? So we're not saying get on all the platforms, right?

Totally.

All at once. Yeah. So I think that's, I think that's who Multi Shoe Machine is great for. If you're a product, physical product based business, you have product to sell, you can adjust the pricing, right. Because we help you with margins, you understand margins and you have inventory to sell and you can sell on places like wholesale. We want you to have three of these things. So if you can sell via email, sell on social, sell on wholesale, sell Amazon, sell direct to consumer on your website or sell in person. If you can pick two to three of those, then Multi Shoe Machine is right for you.

Amazing. You guys, I'm so grateful for you. And what are some, some last parting thoughts if anything has come up for.

You before we go?

I think that you know, just keeping in line with what your audience loves, hearing from you, earn your happy Right. I think one thing that I felt a little bit bad about coming out from the pandemic was that, wow, I really don't know myself what does make me happy. I used to, like Jacqueline said, I used to love to paint. I used to, for me, I used to read books. I used to, you know, what you used to be. And you're comparing yourself to what you used to be and comparing yourself to, you know, what other people are doing. But really, it really is about getting to know yourself again and that's okay too. So, so get to know yourself again, what makes you happy and then also what that looks like in the life that you're building.

Right.

It's different because you're looking at from a different lens than you were even a year ago. You know, that's why I say when your perspective changes and you have a little bit of that freedom, be like, you know what? This has changed me. Sometimes people need that permission and they're like, oh, it is like a light switch. Then I did change my life because of this. Like I said with me was the trauma of my, my daughter's thing. And then for Everybody else it's 2020. So what is it that will make you think, okay, this is when I'm going to change and rediscover what makes me happy now. And that's okay to do all of that. So good.

And for me, I think it's finding, finding your community. So if it's one other person, if it's a group of people, it's feeling like you're not alone. We've felt alone. Entrepreneurs feel alone. I always say, you're not going to go to coffee with a girlfriend or someone that you met through your kids school and then be like, I just hit seven figures and a million downloads. You know, like, it's not the thing that you do. And so it's finding people that you can, we call them, you know, champagne wins, even if they're small wins, but things that you can share where they're not in competition with you, but rather they will lift you up and they'll celebrate with you. And I think it's really important to find those people. So sometimes that's through paid communities, sometimes that's through programs, masterminds. But the idea there is that you find those people that are your cheerleaders so that you can keep going, but then they're also there for when you fall down and they lift you right back up.

Yes. Oh my God, so huge. It's literally, you have to find those people because you'll go so much faster and you'll actually enjoy your life while you're doing it.

Absolutely.

Okay, where can we find the multi stream machine? How can we sign up for that and then where can we find and follow you guys?

Amazing. Thank you. So multistream machine, the doors are open right now, so it's multistreammachine.com and you can also just go to theproductboss.com we are at the productboss on all the social handles. And I know we didn't talk about this fully, but we have a pledge which is called the Shop 1 in 5 Pledge where we ask you to pledge to make 1 in 5 of your purchases from a small business online or offline. It's our way to support small businesses. If you have any gifts you want to buy, we have a directory of over 600 product based businesses that you can buy from. So that is Shop one in five. So follow us on Instagram, check out the website and shop from the directory.

Oh, I love that so much. That is so huge. I saw that and was like so excited about it because that's how all of our dreams are going to come true is if we support each other. It's so beautiful. So okay, you all know who are listening that the biggest gift that we can give to our guests is to shout them out and let them know what your biggest takeaway was. So where should we take you both? Should it be at the product boss on Instagram? Okay, so tag the product boss, let.

Mina and Jacqueline both know what your.

Biggest takeaway was so that they can see who's listening. It's so much fun to see the listeners and you guys know that I always, always share your stories whenever you share them. So you guys, until next time, earn your happy. Bye everyone.