739. 3 Tips to Legally Protect Yourself and Your Business

When it comes to trademark infringement, this is one thing that I will say, like it can quite literally be a waste if you don't do the work up front. Because if somebody comes after you for trademark infringement, not only will you have to rebrand, but they can sue you and get all the profits that you've made.

Welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of Light Pink, best selling author, three time fitness world champion, and I'm a crazy, multi passionate entrepreneur. My journey has taken me everywhere, from being a broke waitress, barista, retails associate and personal trainer with massive anxiety and no belief in myself, to later becoming a multimillionaire in love with my life. In 2007, my husband and I lost everything. We found ourselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at rock bottom. We had no ideas and I had no education to fall back on. This is when I found personal development and learned everything I about business. Not by choice, but because I realized no one was coming to save me. The conversations on this podcast are going to let you know that you're not alone and that we all feel like we don't know what we're doing. We're going to give you the tools to help you face your fears, take action, start your business, and grow those massive dreams that are keeping you up at night. It's time to create a life that you can't hide from and put so, so much on the line that your higher self is forced to come out. You're going to stop waiting for someone to approve of you and you're going to anoint yourself. Because I'm obsessed about building businesses that give women a platform, I want to feature you. So if you text the word podcast to 310-496-8363, you can get your questions answered on our Q and A segment along with a shout out. And if you rate, review and subscribe to this podcast podcast, we're choosing someone every month to get coached and featured on our show. It just might be you. So let's get started.

Hey everyone, welcome back. It's time for another quickie and there's always time to fit in inspiration. And today you are so, so lucky because I have brought on a super, super special guest who has been a huge part of Chris and I's life and life, life and business. And I am sitting here with Andrea Sager, Andreas of Andrea Sager Law and she is a business attorney who works exclusively with small business owners. Now, if you're not a small business owner or you're thinking about it or you are a small business owner. I don't want to lose you in the fact that I just said that I'm interviewing a attorney right now because this is going to be fun.

She makes it super fun.

And you guys, also, this is such interesting stuff that even if you maybe feel like you don't need to know it, I'm sure you'll be shocked at a couple things. I know that I always am within my business. And if you work with clients at all, if you have any clients, this is huge to know. So, Andrea, welcome to the show. I'm really excited to have you on.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about this.

So you are.

You have got such cool things going on. You have got the LegalPreneur membership. Today we are going to talk about the top three legal protections for business owners. And I can't even tell you how excited I am about this because I myself have used so many of your services, from your trademark services to just bouncing questions off of you, because I have gotten myself into some small legal trouble because I didn't know all of the rules and I didn't know who to turn to when some of these things pop up. You guys, I'm referring to a few different things, but one of them was Chris, and I got sued over using an image of potato salad that ended up costing us a decent amount of money. It was the most expensive potato salad I've had in my life, and I didn't even eat it. But these are the types of things that small business owners get into. So, Andrea, first of all, again, welcome to the show. And I would just love to know, like, what's made you go towards the small businesses and go really online and creating this very niche, awesome membership that supports people in such a big way.

Great question. So I honestly have always just listened to my clients and what they want and what they need. So I used to own a clothing boutique. It was a women's clothing boutique. I started online, and then we grew really fast, and I actually had a brick and mortar store. And. And then I. And this was all during law school. Not that I wasn't.

Oh, my God. Amazing.

And then I started at this big law firm. You know, it was the dream job. I was in Cincinnati. I could actually watch a Cincinnati Reds game from my office. Everything from the outside looked absolutely perfect, and on the inside, I was absolutely miserable. And from. From having that boutique, I had a huge network of other business owners. So they would constantly come to me for help. And me being a first year attorney, a baby lawyer, I'm trying to bring clients to the firm and I'm like, oh my gosh, they are going to love me. Like I'm going to be this rock star attorney here at this law firm. And quite frankly, the firm didn't want the small businesses they. I remember very clearly my defining moment. I think we all really have like those defining moments that put us on this completely new trajectory in life. And my moment was when I had a partner come to me that was supposed to be approving this new client. I mean, I was always told it was just like an informal process. And the partner came to me and was just like, we don't want this small business. We only want the big clients. And they didn't have an issue paying the fees. They were paying whatever the firm's rates were. And they were a multiple six figure business. Like now they're past, they're multiple seven figures now. But at the time, it's not like they were a tiny business that had just started. They were a multiple six figure business and the firm didn't want them. And when this partner literally just told me, we don't want them. Small businesses are not quality clients to us. That was my moment because I had seen how many potential clients were coming to me, but number one, they couldn't afford the rates. And then finally when I had the client that was like, I don't care, I just need to get this done. And the firm didn't want them. That was my moment. And I knew these people need to be served. So I guess I'm going to be the one to go and serve them. So that's why I started a little over three years ago. I was feeling, I knew I was feeling a need in the marketplace, but of course going out on your own is always scary as can be. And I didn't know if I was going to have clients, but luckily I have had clients, a few of them. And it's been, I'm not going to.

Say it's always a lot of them.

Yeah, I'm not going to say it's always been great, great. It's not always been, you know, gravy, but it's been a fun, fun ride.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, you're definitely, you're in an industry that's not necessarily built off of fun. But I feel like you have made it, you know, I think something about you that I love is that you make it really accessible and you make it less scary for some reason. Like as A business owner, we, like, get a little freaked out. If you're like, even talking about attorneys, you're like, why do I need this person? You're like, well, a lot of it is preventative. Like, there's so many things that I have used you for and I've used other attorneys for. That just makes me feel so good. So what I can say that it does for the small business owner, because I am one, I have multiple small businesses, is that it really prevents me from having even more anxiety about different things. Like, was it okay to use this name? Is it okay to proceed in this way? Is all of my paperwork correct with, you know, maybe investors or with these different contracts? Could I just have another set of eyes looking over this contract to make sure we're solid? Because that's not my zone of genius and it's not most business owners zone of genius. Like it probably 99% sure accuracy that it's not your zone of genius. So I love that. So let's jump right into the top three legal protections for business owners.

Yeah. So the top three, number one is your business entity, number two is your intellectual property, and number three is your contracts. So getting into it, your business entity, this is how you legally operate. So I actually just had a podcast episode. The quickest and most efficient way to just get started as a business owner is to be a sole proprietor. This means you possibly file a DBA with your county. However it works in your state or your county, it's different everywhere. But all you have to do is be a sole proprietor. That's how you legally become a business. However, there is no legal protection. And what. Everything that I teach, everything that I'm about is legal protection. So yes, you can be a sole proprietor, easy as possible, super easy, super cheap. But you're not being legally protected. The most cost effective way to legally protect yourself is to be an llc, a limited liability company. And you'll get a million different answers from a million different people on when to become an llc. But as an attorney, I think you should be an LLC as soon as possible because you never know what's going to happen. Because as an llc, you're separate from your business. So you as an individual are now separate from your business, which can sometimes be hard to grasp. If you're the sole owner of your business, it's like, hey, I'm the only one in this business. Like, what do you mean? I have to be separate from my business? Like, it's one in the same. No, you don't want to Be one in the same. Because if you do, if you're a sole proprietor and you do something in your business that causes it to get sued, you're also getting sued personally. So they can come after your house, your car, anything you own personally, they can come after. Same goes for if you cause a car accident driving down the highway. They can come after all your business assets if they sue you. So you have to become an LLC to limit your personal liability. So if you have an LLC and then you are you as an individual and you the business, something happens that gets the business sued, they can't come after your personal assets. Now, I get a lot of pushback because people say, well, what if I don't own any personal assets? What if I don't own anything? What if, you know, I'm not even making that much money? Well, let's say today is day one of your business. You're making no money. Well, something happens and you blow up overnight and you're making millions of dollars or even, even 50, $50,000. You start making $50,000 in a month or two. Well, then day one, you're a sole proprietor, and then you start making this money. Day two, you decide, oh, let me go file the LLC now. But unbeknownst to you, you didn't know. But on day one, you actually did something that causes your business to get sued, but the lawsuit doesn't happen for maybe a year from now. So you get sued as a business owner a year after the thing happened. And even though at the time they sue you, you're an llc. The day the act happened, the day you did that thing, you were not an llc. So you don't get that LLC protection and they can still come after your personal assets. So when I say you never know what's going to happen, you never know what's going to happen. And you're not supposed to know. You like, nobody knows everything that's going to cause them to get sued. So you have to take all these precautionary measures to make sure you're protected as much as possible. And being an llc, that's one layer of protection.

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So what are the. What are the reasons people wouldn't go with being an llc? Is it more costly?

It is more costly, but it's not that much more costly if you DIY do it on your own. All you have to do is file your. Pay your state's filing fees. I tell everybody, look, it's all figureoutable. It's. I tell people all the time, like, you can absolutely figure it out if you have the time. If you have more time than money, absolutely do it on your own. All you have to do is Google your state, llc, Secretary of State. Make sure you do it with your Secretary of state's office. And that's actually doing it yourself. If you pay legal zoom ink file, that's not doing it on your own. You're just paying somebody else to file it for you, paying unnecessary fees. Now, if you want to have a lawyer do it for you. Just a baseline. We're not the cheapest, we're not the most expensive, but we charge 650 plus your state's filing fees to get it done. Just so you have an idea that's to file. Get your ein number, your operating agreement, everything you need to make sure you're officially set up as an LLC. So middle of the road is about 650 plus your state's filing fees.

Okay, cool. And then they can just Google their state. What would be their exact, like a googleable phrase to go and do this?

So I'm in Texas, so Google Texas Secretary of State, llc. Great.

Yeah, we get asked this all the time. Like, we, you know, people, especially in our masterminds, like, where do I start? Like, do I have to legally file things for my business? And we're like, yes, you do. And most people don't know. So great question. Okay, amazing. What is our number two?

So number two is my favorite, which is intellectual property. And this is because our bread and butter with the law firm is trademarked. And intellectual property really falls under three. There's three arms under it, which is patents, trademarks, and copyrights. I don't cover patents. Whole nother ball game. But that's your inventions. Now, trademarks and copyrights, these are probably the most misused terms with entrepreneurs. And I'm going to give you a really easy way to know the difference. So trademarks equal your branding. So anything that identifies your brand, your brand name, your logo, your slogan, your. Your podcast name, a product name, a service name, anything that identifies your brand think all the unique names of stuff within your business, it can probably be protected with a trademark. Now, your copyrights, that is your content. So your photos, your videos, your blog posts, your website copy all the content that goes inside of those things with the unique names. So trademarks equal branding, copyrights equal content. Now, the good thing about copyrights is you actually have federal protection the moment the work is created. So you don't actually have to have a registration to have rights with your copyright. So the potato salad photo, that was protected with the copyright. So anytime you guys take a photo on your phone, the moment you snap that picture copyright, you own the copyright to it initially. Whoever owns, whoever takes the photo owns the copyright. So when you go to hire a photographer to take brand photos, you don't own those photos. The photographer owns them. They're only giving you a license to use those photos. So if you're posting photos on social media, if you don't have a license or if you didn't take those photos, that's copyright infringement. And a license is literally just permission. So if you find a photo on Instagram or Pinterest, and it's a little harder with Pinterest, but if you find a photo on Instagram that you really like and you want to post, you can DM the account owner and say, hey, I love this picture. Can I post it on my own? If they say, yes, great, there's a license. Now if they say, yeah, pay me $50. Well, you got to pay them $50. And that's, that's the license fee. Now, of course you want to have. It would be ideal to have a contract that lays out the specifics, like, what all can this photo be used for? Where can you post it? A lot of details. But if you just want to post on Instagram, DM them say, hey, can I post this? And if they say yes, yeah. Now, with Instagram, some people get. It gets a little tricky because you can obviously share the stories. You can regram. Now, if you share the stories, that's not infringement. If you regram with the Regram app, leave everything as is. You don't try to crop anything out. That's okay because Instagram says it's okay. And you agree to Instagram's terms of service by using the app. Now, I know I'm throwing a lot at you and everybody else listening. Good.

It's good stuff. Yeah.

Now, if you find somebody, what do you do? If somebody, you find somebody using your photos or that's somebody that's posted your videos, copied Everything. What do you do? Now, luckily, you don't need a registration to have rights. So all you have to do is submit a copyright takedown. This is also known as a DMCA takedown, Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Every online platform has it because this is their safe harbor to not get sued. So let's say you find somebody who posted your picture on Instagram. All you have to do is Google Instagram DMCA form. That's the exact Google form, Google Little Type in Instagram DMCA form. There's a form that'll pop up, fill it out, and within a couple of days that photo will be gone. You don't have to get in, you don't have to get a lawyer involved, you don't even have to reach out to them. Fill out that form and the photo will be gone. Now, with trademarks, it's a different story because you don't have federal rights when you start using the name. You may have some rights, but you don't have federal rights unless you have a registration. So if you have your business name and you have a federal trademark registration, if somebody else is using that account on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, wherever, if you submit the trademark takedown form, sometimes those platforms will also remove that account. It's not guaranteed, but it does have, it will happen sometimes. So I our legal Preneur Instagram account, once I got the trademark registration petition Instagram, they removed the other account and gave it to me. So there's a lot of magic that can happen. Yeah, there's a lot of magic that can happen with intellectual property online. And it's really, it's very, very helpful for small businesses because just like it sound like, we're small businesses, we can't afford to go around suing people for this or that. And my job is to not get you to the point is to make sure you don't get to the point where you have to sue somebody. And that's why we have all these other avenues to police what you actually have and to police all the infringements online.

So it's so interesting because I've used you for a lot of names. I've used you for names with my alcohol names on the actual name or flavor. I've used you for podcast names, things like that. So I see a lot of people just grabbing similar names and throwing that up for a podcast or grabbing similar names and naming their business that. And I know that there's kind of these fine lines between if you're a really small business and you're staying off the radar. You're just kind of like working with a few people. Or what if something happens and you do blow up and now you have this name that there's. That someone else owns. So can you talk a little bit about that when it becomes important to make sure that you are searching not trademarks or is it trademarks?

Trademarks, yes.

See?

See?

Yes.

So you have an Andrea for this.

Yeah. So if the name is similar. So then that's the thing about trademark infringement. It's not just the same exact name that can be infringement. It's anything similar enough to where consumers are likely to be confused. So if there's a similar podcast name and consumers listeners are likely to be confused and say, oh, is this Lori, or is this other one Lori? That's trademark infringement 100%. And the confusion doesn't have to occur, it's just that it's likely to occur. Now, what if you're a super small business? Now, I'm of the mindset that if you. Obviously we may start hobbies, we may do this, but typically we do this in hopes that it blows up and in hopes that we can make a lot of money doing something. And because of that, I always suggest doing the right trademark search from the beginning to make sure you have the rights you think you have. Because quite like, I don't like to say things are a waste because I know you are very much in the feminine Lori, and there's a lesson with everything. We can learn from everything. Everything happens for a reason. But when it comes to trademark infringement, this is one thing that I will say, like, it can quite literally be a waste if you don't do the work up front. Because if somebody comes after you for trademark infringement, not only will you have to rebrand, but they can sue you and get all the profits that you've made. So you're like, oh, well, I made all this money, yay. But you're going to have to change your name and essentially start over from scratch. And then all that money you made, you have to pay to the other party. So, like, yeah, it's a learning experience, but quite frankly, you just don't want that to happen. A lot of money, a lot of heartache, and it can easily, easily be prevented.

So good. I think of that all the time. And just taking those extra steps will save you such a headache. Because most likely it's not just, of course, it's about that. And you might have to pay the money and all the things, but you might also have product and you might like you have this everywhere. You don't realize how much your name goes everywhere in paperwork, and it's just like a giant headache. So waiting a little bit longer or settling on a name you don't love as much is often what happens. Like, people don't realize that it's often what happens. You end up with something maybe you don't love as much, but you kind of grow into it. So it's just the story of behind the scenes. So what is number three?

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So number three is contracts. And rule number one with contracts is do not be afraid to use one. I can't tell you how many people come to me and they're like, oh, well, I know I should use a contract, but I don't want clients to think I'm trying to pull one over on them. Or I don't want this them to think this and that. No, you are a professional. Get that out of your head. I understand. Like, we probably all have been screwed over by a contract one time or another, but contracts will literally save your butt and then not. And not because like you want to sue because somebody breaches contract. Like, there's all these avenues to protect yourself as a small business owner without going to court, without having to sue, without getting sued. And for entrepreneurs, small business owners, especially online, is with chargebacks. So if you're selling something online, nine times out of 10, I would say 99.9% of small business owners right now online have experienced a chargeback. If you have a contract with that client, you're good, you're gold. But most of the time when somebody files a chargeback and a client comes to me like, hey, how do I fight this? That's the first thing I ask. Like, okay, well let me see the contract. If they don't have a contract, I'm like, dude, you're screwed. Like, that's all there is to it. Sometimes I think I've had one situation where we had, we were able to show emails and how the work was actually done, but that's like, it's super rare to have that even work out in your favor. And one thing, another reminder is to actually get those contracts signed. So over the past couple of months, I don't know what it is up in the air, but we had a number of chargebacks. One was for $30,000. The other was for a total of like $12,000. And in both of these situations, they had been longtime clients of mine. But and so they knew like, they knew they had, they have contracts, they use the contracts. But in these two situations, they were problem clients from the beginning because they didn't actually, they wanted like a different system. One client, she wanted to print out and sign the contract instead of doing like, hello, sign where you have, you can't complete it until you sign it. And in that one, there was two places for a signature and she only signed one. And then in the other case, they wanted to split up payment on different cards. And because they went through a different process in their normal sales process, my client forgot to get the contract signed. So these are just little tidbits like, hey, if you're going to go out of your way to help your client out, still you can't forget about your contract. You have to make sure this stuff gets signed. Now what contracts do you need? If you have a website, you need a privacy policy and terms and conditions. A privacy policy is actually required by law. And this covers what information are you gathering from users, how are you using that information, how long are you keeping that information? Basically everything that has to do with the user's data, their private information. Now, terms and conditions, it's actually not required by law, but on your website, it is the contract between you and the visitor of your website. And then if you can purchase something on your website, it's the contract between you and the buyer on your website. And this is 100%. If they can buy something, you want to have this because that's going to be your contract. When, if there's a chargeback, if you ever have to fight something like that's your contract and it is 100% legally binding to have those terms and conditions as long as when they check out, they have to actively check the box. The box cannot already be checked. So they have to actively check the box and they have to be able to click to go read the terms or the terms have to be right there in front of them and it's legally binding.

Okay, and is there a spot where people can learn how to put that all on their site? Is there a place for that? Or is this something you do need to hire an attorney for and then make sure it's all kosher?

Most website platforms, most website hosts make it pretty easily accessible. So the terms and conditions and the privacy policy, those go on static pages. So if you're using Kajabi, there will be a place that says static pages and it'll show like in the footer, like terms and conditions go here. Privacy policy Goes here. Same thing for Shopify, WordPress. I think it's a. It might be worded a little differently, but there's still. It goes in the footer. Like most online website platforms, they make it easy for you and then when you go to checkout, it'll give you the option as well make it really user friendly. Like, hey, if you have terms and conditions, it goes here. Do you want to have the terms in front of them or do you want to have them check the box? Do you want to have them sign? Most people choose just to have them check the box. So I don't actually do the technical stuff, but I've worked with so many clients on this and I know that it's pretty user friendly.

Okay, amazing. All right, so tell me about your legal membership, because this is kind of like having your own attorney in your pocket for small businesses, especially for just all of the things in startup mode, especially just like what you said, like making sure your contracts are in place, making sure you have NDAs if you need them for any reason, all of those different things. So tell me a little bit about it.

Yeah, so this actually came about from feedback from my clients as well when I first started because normally when I first started I was only doing trademark filings, but because they were all business owners, they still had little questions here and there. And I'm not that I don't like to bill hourly. If you've ever worked with an attorney, most of them will charge you per hour to read your email, think about your email, and then respond to your email. And I'm just like, I don't have time for that. Like, I just don't want to do that. And so I made a membership where clients literally just pay me per month or per year and they get unlimited emails. So you can literally send me 100 emails every single day if you want. I ask that you don't, but you can. And so you get unlimited email access. You get one 30 minute phone call every single month. You get 10 pages of document review every single month. So if you're signing a new contract, you can send it over, say, hey, any red flags? You know, what does this mean? We can definitely chat about that. And then you get access to our contract vault, which has over 100 contract templates for you to use as you please. Then you get a 15% discount on any other services that you need, whether it's a trademark filing, copyright filing, any respond to a cease and desist letter, anything like that. And then once you've been a Member for three months, you get a free intellectual property audit. And that's where we dive into your business, tell you exactly what you already have that can be protected with a trademark or copyright. And then after six months, you get a trademark search for free. So that search is required before we file any applications, but you get it for free after you've been with us for six months. And then after 12 months, you get three trademark applications half off. So instead of 15% off, you get a 50% discount. And then, of course, if you pay in full for the year, then you get those extra benefits up front. You don't have to wait. Yeah, it's only 209amonth or 2299 for the year. So really cost effective. We want to make sure that if you're a business owner, it's something that you can afford. Yeah.

And I just want to say you spend that on one search of anything. Like sometimes these searches are. A typical trademark search is like, what, fourteen hundred dollars or something? Usually twelve or fourteen hundred dollars. So pretty. Like you pretty much spend that on one time for asking for an attorney's help most of the time. Or can you review documents or things like that? You're typically looking at a higher price because it is, you know, it's a higher price per hour for a majority of attorneys out there. So well worth it. You'll have that. You'll be great for. And then you'll have that one month where you're like, what the hell? And you'll have a few thousand dollars in attorney bills, so. Or you could have my attorney bills right now, which is really crazy for a startup alcohol company and raising money. That's a whole other story. Yeah, it costs a lot of money to raise money.

Like, yes, it does.

Like $100,000 for.

And that's not even a few million dollars. Yeah, that's not even something I want to handle. It's crazy what goes into that.

Yeah, it's insane. And that's another thing, is there's so many different types of attorneys, but you are literally the perfect attorney for especially small startup small business. I love that you've really niched down. I think that's so powerful. Yeah. It's been so much fun because you've been in Chris's mastermind Sue. I know that you've helped him so much and you've helped so many people in the masterminds because they're all kind of in that small business startup mode too. So we're always like, ask Andrea. Ask Andrea. That's an Andrea question. Love that you started this membership. You guys definitely go check it out. Andrea, where do we go?

It is Andrea Sager.com and you'll find the legal preneur membership right there.

So S A G E R. Is the spelling of your last name Andrea S A G E r dot com correct?

Yep.

Okay, wonderful.

All right, you guys, so grateful for.

You definitely give her a tag on Instagram. Let her know what your biggest takeaway was. What's your Instagram handle?

At Andrea Sager Law?

At Andrea Sager Law. Let her know what your biggest takeaway was if you're going to be joining your program or not. And I hope that this helped you. I hope it just kind of opened.

Your eyes and made it less scary.

Because it's not scary if you have the help and you have someone in your life who can help you out.

So.

And you feel empowered. Like, once you get the answers, you just feel better and you can move forward freely knowing that you're protected. So until next time, everyone earn your happy. Bye.

Bye.