76: STOP PEOPLE PLEASING and Still BE NICE About it with Amy E Smith

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Welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model, turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author.

Each week I'll bring you a guest.

Or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear. Clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves. Get ready to earn, own, and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me? Here we go. Welcome back to the earn your happy podcast. And today I have Amy E. Smith on the show. She's a certified confidence coach, a masterful speaker, and a personal empowerment expert. She's also the founder of thejoy junkie.com and she uses her roles as a coach, a writer, a podcaster, a speaker to really move individuals to a place of radical personal empowerment and self love. And we talk a lot about finding your voice on this podcast and also people, please. So let's get started. Amy, I'm so incredibly excited to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for coming on.

I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you.

All right. You are one of those people. I can tell. I literally was like, okay, we need to stop talking. I must hit record now because I know that the best stuff is going to come as soon as we dig in here. So I really, really appreciate you and for, for the people who don't know who you are yet, I would love for you to just share a bit about your journey, what you do and how you got to that point.

Oh, goodness. How much time do you have?

Seriously? I totally know.

Okay, let me see if I can not be so verbose. I worked for, gosh, probably a good decade as a makeup artist and I was, you know, climbing that corporate ladder. I was a trainer, a corporate trainer for a prestige makeup line and was checking off all the boxes and had, you know, the assistance and the company cars and the traveling all over the place and all of the things that you think, okay, being in your early 20s, oh, I'm, I'm styling. Right. I'm looking good on paper. This is what it's all about. And I had a very pivotal moment when I realized that I was working myself to the bone for somebody else's dream. And truly the nucleus of all of it was that my entire self worth and all of my value was wrapped up into this one piece of my identity and who I was in this career field. And I had very realistically a quarter life crisis and could not continue that rat race. I actually saw a doctor at the time who said, you will have a heart attack by the time you're 30. You will develop ulcers. You are, you know, the trajectory is not good if you continue this sort of level of stress and anxiety. And a lot of that, I believe, was the internal battle of self loathing and never enoughness. Right. That we all go through. So that kind of landed me in the lap of coaching. And I had this massive breakdown, Just quite a mess. And my husband at that time had heard a life coach on the radio. I think he had listened to Ryan Seacrest or something. And he came home and he was so convinced. He was like, honey, I heard this career on the radio and you've been doing this since you were 5. You have to look into this. And he was so convinced that he sent away to a couple of different coaching establishments for me to go on these weekend retreats. And that was really the genesis of getting involved in personal development. And I became an addict. I mean, just a complete devotee of all things personal development. And truly what it was was this concept of, oh my God, I can actually shift to this in, inside. It's not out there. It's not in the baby or the house or the job or the, you know, all these things that we are told chronically from youth. Here's the path to happiness, the perfect body, whatever it is. And that is really how I got into the lap of coaching. And then it's kind of evolved from there. And now I primarily focused on relationships for a really long time. And then over the last, I'd say three years or so, I've been really heavily focused on this concept of finding your voice. And I noticed that there was so much fear around giving voice to things inside our relationships. Telling your parents, no, I don't want to baptize my child, we don't believe in that faith. Leave me alone. Or asking for a divorce. How do you do that? Oh, I could never. Or having a tough discussion with a business partner. All of these relationships, I started to see that people were making up, that it was their fault and their problem. And so they were silencing themselves. And that's truly when that path kind of was shown to me. Like, there's something here with this people pleasing nonsense and this finding your voice, speaking up for yourself. So it's really kind of A dichotomy. It's twofold. It's. What I do is work with that internal piece of. Of shifting self worth, truly. Like, what do you really believe about self and your fears, your beliefs, et cetera? And then how that translates to your external world, like your relationships? And then what does it actually sound like to establish a boundary? What are the words you say or how do you say to somebody, Please stop touching my belly when you're pregnant. Like, social niceties that we think we cannot be honest and we can't truly take a stand for ourselves. So that's what I do now.

Oh, my gosh. I don't even know. I wrote down, like, five questions while you were talking, because I was like, yes, yes, yes. And P.S. your makeup is amazing. For anyone who does not, I mean, go follow her just sheerly out of the inspiration, not only for her amazing inspiration, but your makeup, I'm telling you. So I was a makeup artist for a brief period in my life.

Like, brief.

So right when I saw your picture, I was like, girl, you are like, I love everything about this. So anyhow, we're gonna dig, because I love, love, love what you just said. So when you hit this point of, you know. Because that was. It brought me right back to that place where, if that was me in my early 20s, the car, doing all of these great things, you know, being a part of this company, feeling like you've reached the top, and then you're like, this is not making me happy. We realize the ladder is up against the wrong wall. But now what? Because when you thought that was it and you've reached it, like, that can be such a desperate point. So why do some people continue in. What made you wake up?

Oh, man. Well, I think that there's a couple of things, and I don't know how much we want to get into this, but one is, at that time, I definitely gave myself the expanse to grieve because I believed I was going to keep climbing up the wall, climbing up the ladder at this particular company, I was like, you're going to have to drag me away from backstage, because I did a lot of fashion shows and stuff like that. You're gonna have to get me off the stage. You're gonna have to. And I really had this very specific vision for the trajectory of my career. And so at that time, there was a lot of tears, there was a lot of tumult, and I really allowed that to happen because I think especially for those of us who are extremely driven, we go, okay, this Is too painful. I can't be here onto the next thing. How do I fix this? How do I change this? How do I make this pain stop? And I kind of realized, like, I really need to sit in this and mourn that there's something that I really, truly wanted, that now I'm changing that pattern, and there's sadness involved. Even though it's a good choice and I feel powerful around it, I still need to acknowledge the sadness. So that's one piece, the other or another element of it. I was driving home. This is kind of what, the straw that broke the camel's back. I was driving home in that damn company car. And this is before there was any laws about being on the phone and stuff like that. So I was conversing with all of my artists and my managers, and I was doing a bunch of business, always, always, always, always during my commutes. And we had a really intricate voicemail system. It was highly ineffective. So I'm driving home, and I just kind of, on a whim, decided to listen to the radio, which I shit you not, did. Had not done that in, like, two years. Like, just a basic human pleasure of listening to music in my car. Had it done because my focus was so much on this business. And so it happens to be Kelly Clarkson's breakaway. And, you know, I mean, the song's so poignant already. Like, I'm going to spread my wings and I'm going to fly. I'm going to break away, right? And I just bawling. So I've got mascara sliding all down my face, and I've got false lashes, like, kind of flinging away, and I'm like, break. Because it dawned on me in the moment, not only that the song was so poignant for my life at the time, but that I hadn't listened to music, that I was losing myself. I was completely losing myself. And so I remember coming home that day, and I looked like the joker. And so my husband's like, oh. Oh, my God. What happened? And I said, you know, I kind of held up my fingers and, like, I was pinching something, and I said, I'm this close to completely losing myself. I'm completely lost in this job. And that's. That was when I realized there has to be a shift. I cannot maintain this. And, you know, then there were some health ramifications, too, so. And then I started kind of planning my escape. So I. Now I totally forgot the beginning of the question.

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Oh, my gosh. Well, first of all, we have all been there. I mean, literally, I put myself. I mean, the song may have been different, but the lashes turning into a mustache is the same. So. Yeah, so for sure can absolutely picture myself there. And, you know, all I can think of is that we get so attached to our outcomes that that's been such a huge theme for me is. Is like, I thought I was supposed to be like a Jillian Michaels, and all of a sudden I realized that actually doesn't make me happy at all. And you don't even. You go through this phase of like. But this is making me actually more miserable than I could have ever imagined. The closer that you get, and all of a sudden, you don't know who you are without that, though. So there's that in between. So in that in between space, did you let the. Did the pain motivate you? Did you buy yourself time? What happened next in between that?

Yeah, you know, well, here. The situation that I had with the company I worked for was a really great gig. And I had so many opportunities. Great tuition reimbursement, amazing benefits. Like, I mean, I could like, shit makeup that had got so much. Like, there was so much reason for me to be there. And so I kind of felt like, okay, if I'm gonna jump ship, I want this to be the next massive chapter in my life. And so I'm a planner. I'm not really one of those that can be spontaneous and, like, well, if I don't quit, I'll never start my own business. No, I need, like, a path. So I honored how I know I operate. I'm not just like, you know, switching on and off. That does not work for me. It causes me severe anxiety. So I created kind of a plan where I decided to gradually step down in hours in my. In my job. I resigned out of the higher profile position, became an artist, and then started stepping down in hours and. And started studying, coaching on the side and just really worked my ass off. And that was a very interesting time because I had such a dichotomous environment because I would sometimes be in a very, very superficial world where it was like, everyone talking about their latest handbag and all of those things which I could care less about. And then on my days off, here I am digging into people's deepest, darkest fears and their belief systems. And so I had to check my ego and Because I was starting to act elitist around my day job, you know, like, oh, I've got. I'm all gurued out now, you know, all superficial with your lipstick and lashes. And so that was also a growing point. But then I also really realized that that job was funding. Funding my escape, funding this new life that I was pursuing. And it enabled me to get my degree without paying a penny for school. Like, there was so many conscious choices around that transition. But I took my sweet ass time. I took about three years to really look at what are the components that I know already must be present in this next kind of career path and what are the things I know I do not want. And kind of started crafting the life I wanted first and then realized, oh, my gosh, a coaching practice could absolutely fit this thing I've been describing for three years. And patience for that is extremely counterintuitive to me. I think on my yearly goals for like, three years in a row, one of my goals was solidify an occupational path. Yep. But, you know, it's kind of how it goes. But I would never trade that for the world, you know, it has taught me so much.

I love that you talk about patience, especially when we're following what we feel, this massive calling or this next chapter, this next thing is supposed to be. Because I think we think it's supposed to be so clear and it's just gonna hit us, and I don't believe it ever does, like what you just said. I'm like, I am living a parallel life. Because it was like three years of me trying to figure it out while I trained and did other things and slowly followed those, you know, different curiosities or things I was being pulled to. And I swear, if it was any sooner, I mean, I can't imagine what it would have looked like. You know, it's like everything was coming in pieces for me. But as you were figuring out who you were. So I love that you shared that. So when you realized what you wanted to do and you really had that path, what was the transition like for you?

I did. I kind of just slowly. I had that great fortune with a company I worked with, where I could go from God, it was probably about 50, 60 hours a week. And then I went down to 37 and a half, and then I went down to 24, and then I went down to 18. You know, so I was gradually. So it was gradual. And so I could start supplementing with this ridiculous anomaly of Internet marketing and creating an online business which nobody knows what they're doing anyway, you know, we're just following the. Somebody swears they know what's going on, you know, anyway, truth. So I was just kind of like, wow, maybe this will work. Maybe that'll work. And so I really started with just a handful of clients. And fortunately, the coaching certification program that I went through, it was a requirement that you had to have five paying clients through the entire duration of your program. So they really wanted you to be working with people, not just conceptual stuff, not just like, okay, cool, go build a business. And that was really helpful for me. So, you know, I got. My first goal was just pay. Just make enough money from coaching to pay for my mentor coach. That's all I wanted to do. And then it was. Then it became supplementing the income, and finally I got to the point where I was working just three days a week and then coaching four other days, you know, working seven days a week. And I could finally take that leap to actually quit because the demand of clients was able to substantiate that transition. And pretty much. I will say this, like, pretty much through that entire process, I have maintained having a coach myself, and I still do. Like, I just talked to her prior to us getting on the phone. And that has been pivotal in taking care of myself and also really having that beginner's mind, like, having that space of I'm fallible, too, you know, and I'm human, too, and I'm messy, and I need that space to. To be messy. So, yeah, that's kind of how it has transpired.

Okay. I love that, and I love that you have a coach. Like, I'm. I can't imagine my life without mentors and coaches, because life is just. It's so much richer, and we hit walls when we're alone. We are absolutely not meant to be alone. Right. It's like, you know, when you're alone, how crazy you get.

Like, well, just in the confines of your own mind, for real.

It just helps so much connecting with people. I really believe that all of our secrets are buried in other people and, you know, including us. So that brings me to the next thing, because as you're telling us, you know, your. Your hours are going down, you're making all of these big choices, which I know had to deal with a ton of people, a lot of who you thought you were at the time. I can only imagine what you were telling your family or had to tell your husband. And, you know, this comes to the idea of people pleasing, which I know that you love to talk About. And I think it's such a beautiful topic because in order to create anything we want in life, we have got to get really comfortable with being able to either see that we're doing it and know how to possibly avoid it and make ourselves happy and what does that look like? And we're scared of hurting people. Okay, where do we even dive in? So let's talk about that. Did you notice that came up for you as you were starting to kind of back out of that career a bit?

Yeah, it's interesting that you ask that. There was a handful of things there was. One of the biggest lessons that I learned at that particular time is that there can be extremely loving, well meaning people in your world who are trying their best to love you and support you, but it comes out with their own limited belief system. So for instance, I had a boss that I loved who championed me like crazy. But she would say, what if the market turns? What if you don't? What are you going to do about benefits? And it was all this kind of fear based stuff, and it was coming from love, but it also was based off of her own limited scope of what was possible. So there was definitely some boundarying up there where I could say, I understand that's your concern, but I know I won't be at peace with myself if I don't pursue this. But I really think I've always been pretty connected. Like once I'm sure that the path is right for me. There's not really much anybody else can tell me. I'm pretty defiant in that way. But I think one of the ways in which I became so incredibly passionate about this particular topic is around how I was raised. And this continues to be the way in which I use my voice and really have to flex that muscle. I grew up in a very conservative, born again Christian family where that was really riddled with a lot of guilt and fear. So in my adult life, what that had translated to was like prepping my husband every time we would go to my family's house. Like, okay, no cussing, no Jon Stewart, no South park, no Howard Stern, no gay rights, no, you know, like all these things they said, okay, we can't, no being who we really are, right? And so we had to kind of create this facade. So I think that particular relationship now, my father passed in 07, so now that relationship has been very much between myself and my mother. And that has taught me so much, much about the typical response we get, which is that infliction of guilt. Like, well, what are we gonna do about this? Or what about my issue? Or who else am I gonna count on? Or there's nobody, you know, in making your problem. So that really became kind of the nucleus of everything that I started professing as a coach and showing through my own experience, through a really messy experience of finding that voice and actually saying to my mother verbatim, I do not need you to approve of me, because I approve of me. And that took me decades to believe and then to voice. And so now. And I constantly do that, and I constantly have to use my tools and. Oh, my gosh. But that. That's what I want people to know is possible, is these seemingly impossible conversations are really just on the other side of fear. That's it.

You're just reminding me of some moments where I just. Freedom moments. Freedom moments. And if you've never. For those of you listening, if you. If you haven't experienced what she's saying, you know, where you. You have those moments. Because a lot of us are right at that point where we know that we're just being suppressed and held back from a conversation. Right? And mine just happened to be, you know, with my parents as well, with my mom as well. And it was I. Because, okay, like I said, I think we're living part of the same life because I was raised in a really strict religious family, and my conversation was the same with my husband on the way there, I was like, here's the deal.

Yes.

So, you know, and I had a conversation with them years back because I had gone to a. A personal development event. I actually went to a landmark, and they make you call while you're there. It's like, don't come back in the room until you've called and confronted the biggest thing in your life. Well, I didn't know that when I was doing this exercise if I wrote this thing out, that I would have to confront it later or I would have chosen something way easier.

Right.

So anyway, you're just, like, bringing me right back to that point of. These conversations seem impossible. They seem impossible. But. But what is on the other side is so freeing. And I'm still freeing myself, believe me, every single time I use it as an exercise. And it's so beautiful because at the end of the day, when I accept myself, they accept me. So what have you found? Like, what made you start having these conversations? Do you say something in your head? Cause right before. Do you know what I'm talking about, Amy? That feeling where you're like, I can't. I can't like, no.

Yeah. And that's actually a whole. Yes, absolutely. I have a whole process around that. It's like a whole seven step thing that I work with my clients and students around, but I call it gearing up. Where especially if you are, you know, that you're going to go into a challenging conversation, you're going to broach something with your spouse or your family or your child, you know, maybe you're telling them they need to get out of the house or, you know, something that's going to be racked with emotion. If you're going to expect this to be easy, it's never going to be. You're never going to be without fear. It's a matter of like, knowing that you have to go through that in order to get to the bliss on the other side and that the alternative of staying silent is actually costing you something much greater. So there's. I. There's something that I think so many people do, and it is that they collapse this idea of if I give voice to something, if I speak up for myself or if I honor what I need, then I'm either purposely inflicting pain on someone like I'm. I'm trying to hurt, or I'm just being a dick. Like I'm just being insensitive, being callous. And so we get bought into these ideas that if there's going to be any sort of pain involved, that it is wholly our responsibility to avoid that at all costs. So if I'm going to tell my child something that might hurt him, or if I'm going to tell my spouse something that I'm not happy with in our sex life and there might be pain involved, then it is my responsibility to carry that entire burden. And that's a fallacy. That is a complete fallacy. So I always say there's a couple of things. One is anything that you give voice to, even if it's asking for a divorce, even if it's telling your family you don't believe in the religion you grew up with, you can do anything, all of that with the utmost grace and kindness. It doesn't have to be acerbic, it doesn't have to be biting, condescending. It can come from complete kindness, grace, compassion and love. And so we don't ever allow room for that, really. And the other component is that I truly believe we're responsible for our intention, not our reception. So, for instance, I could tell somebody my thoughts about spirituality, my religious beliefs. My husband might be like, oh, yeah, rock on, babe. And think that I'm amazing, I might tell somebody else and they're like, okay, yeah, good for you. I might tell my mom and she'd be like, oh, blasphemy, you're the devil, you know? Like, so the reception is the variable. It's all across the board. The intention is the only thing that I can control. So if your intention is to. Is one of malice, is. If your intention is one of hurt, then yeah, you should probably feel bad about that. You're being kind of a dick. But if you're not, if your intention is one of self care, self worth, impact, compassion, love, whatever, and you feel clean about that, that is your responsibility. Now that does not mean that the reception is not going to carry emotion. Like if my mom gets mad at me, like that doesn't feel good. We don't like that, right? Like it does. We're avoid by, by nature. We're either in the pursuit of pleasure or the avoidance of pain. Like that's it. Right? And so if we know this person might receive me in a way that's going to cause awkwardness and pain and anger, I better just avoid it. But what we're essentially doing in those moments is we're saying your wants and needs, your desires are more important than my wants and desires. And that has to do with worthiness.

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That is so clarifying. I can't even tell you. Like, I have never looked at it from that perspective because. So that kind of. It's funny, I had like five questions preceding this, but I was. It kind of answers all of them when it comes to, you know, because there's the second guessing factor that always comes in because it's like, okay, I am gonna hurt this person. This is not gonna be good. But I know that I'm doing it because of X, Y and Z. But do I really know that? And you know, because that's the conversation that's going on in our head. So is there like a. Is there a question maybe just around intentions or something that you say right before just to kind of confirm, or do we ever really know for sure?

Well, I think. I think that there's this thing that. Well, I do have a little exercise that I'd be happy to give people as, like, kind of a to do. But I do want to mention something here, and that is a lot of this has to do with emotion, right? So, I mean, even if you think about what happens when we decline, right? And we say to our neighbor, no, I'm so sorry, I can't help you move. And then they say, oh, my gosh, really? What am I gonna do? Oh, you were my last hope, right? Guilt, guilt, guilt. And so the minute we feel that emotion of guilt, instead of being with it and just feeling it, which is where we gain our resiliency as humans, we sidestep it and we go, make it stop. Make it stop. Make it stop. And that's where we become people pleasers. And we go, okay, I'll move some stuff around. Like, we can't bear to be with that guilt. Or the client who's like, you can't fit me in. And you immediately feel guilt, responsibility for them. That will not change, right? Like, that's our human emoting. What we have to change is how we engage with that emotion. Because if you just give room to feel, feel it, then you can kind of step back and dissect it and go, okay, I'm just being emotional and a human, and I'm feeling this element of guilt and standing back and going, wait a minute. Is it truly in Amy Smith's Best Interest to take on this client during a time that I booked for self care or for, or for whatever. Is it really in my best interest to ignore that gut feeling and actually help my neighbor move, even though I know it'll push me over the edge of stress and I will be the worst wife and the worst friend, you know what I mean? So I do think that there's a huge piece of us acknowledging that there are going to be uncomfortable emotions with this and you can survive it. But we do everything in our power to not feel it. I mean, that's why people turn to addictions. That's why we turn to all sorts of stuff. We go, I don't want to feel, I don't want to feel. So compound that with everything that we're taught about. Don't rock the boat, don't let people down, all of that stuff. I mean, we're really not set up for success. So I would say, first of all, give yourself massive permission and compassion, that this is going to take time. This is flexing new muscles, right? You don't hit the gym and all of a sudden you're ready for a bodybuilding competition. No, you have to do the same things over and over again, the compound effect to get a different result. So that's one thing that I really think we need to talk about because I think there's this sort of idea that in personal development, oh, just learn your tools and everything's gonna be just waterfalls and rainbows and it's like, no, it's just a new coping mechanism. It's a new management system for life. It doesn't mean you're gonna, you know, if somebody writes a horrible review on my website or about me or somebody that hurts, like, I'm still going to feel that. So I let myself feel it and then I dissect it and look at what do I want to do with this. That's truly in the best service of me. So I do have an exercise. I don't want to get too crazy into stuff if that's not where we're going. But I did, I guarantee they want it.

So let's go there.

Okay, cool.

I want it.

This is primarily just about, say, if you're going anytime you really, really want something. But for our purposes today, let's talk about. You really, really want a response from somebody like, maybe you're telling. I had a good friend of mine who had to kind of tell her parents, like, please do not teach them anything about your religion. Or I cannot have my kids over there. And she was terrified that her parents would baptize her kids without her knowing. So, you know, let's say you're going into that sort of a conversation where you have to really have a hard line. Here's a boundary. Or it's telling your kids to move out, or it's telling a boss you're quitting, or the partnership that's dissolving, whatever, something tough. So you're going to have three columns, and I'm drawing it out right now to help me visualize. So the first column, I freely give myself the permission to want the following. And that's what you write. Even if that's a desired response. Like for that anecdote I mentioned a second ago, let's say she would love it if her mom was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. And I just totally respect you and I'm happy to respect all your wishes around baptism. That's ideal, right? I think one of the most problematic things that we do to ourselves is we say you're not allowed to want what you want, right? Like, no. Doesn't mean you have to manipulate and force it into existence. But you're allowed to want what you want. So if you want a conversation to go well, you're allowed. So right out, right there, I freely give myself the permission to want the following. Then in the second column, you're going to recreate your definition of success. So most of the time, our definition of success is contingent on that other person's response. So this will be successful as long as mom agrees to my boundaries. This will be successful as long as my boss understands this will be, you know, fill in the blank. And so we give all our power away to things we cannot control. And then we're wrapped with anxiety and we freak out and we stress, right? So in this second column, you're going to recreate as it relates to this particular scenario. This is my new definition of success. And it has to be things that you are in control of and can win with every single time. So following that same example, okay, I will be. This will be successful as long as I really am very clear with my boundaries, with my mother, as long as I am articulate. This will be successful if I speak everything with grace and kindness, if I'm assertive, if I'm kind, if I'm all these things that you can control as you bring yourself to this conversation. And then in the third column, you say, despite the outcome, my self worth is determined by the following. And then that is your place to Say, even if I make a mess, even if I'm not kind, even if I do pussyfoot around, even if I don't establish a boundary, I know I'm still valuable because of my tenacity, my love, my graciousness, my kindness, my parenting. And like, you start creating because there's times when even though we use our tools, even though we set ourselves up for success, we still fall short. So there's this understanding in that third column that like, okay, maybe I failed at this little snippet in time. Maybe this situation sucks, but Amy doesn't suck.

Right.

So that's kind of a great framework if you know you're going into a conversation where you're highly attached to the outcome.

Wow, that is an amazing exercise. I wrote it down because I'm going to run through a couple things with it.

Cool.

Running through five or ten things going on. So that is beautiful. And I know that we had talked about you had had something that you were offering or it was like the seven. I just want to make sure they know where to get that. And believe me, I have more questions after this. But was it the seven things going into a conversation so people can really prep themselves? Where can we either focus, find that, or more information around that?

Well, that is something that I actually only teach in my courses and my programs with my clients. However, I do have. I have a ton of stuff that's on that concept. So you can actually do a couple of things. One, I have an E workbook that also comes in audiobook format that's completely free and that is, it's called Stand up for Yourself without being a Dick. And it is nine different specific challenges to help you cultivate self love and self confidence. So it's things like this. And I think this one might be in there. I can't recall off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure this one is in there. But if you just go to thejoy junkie.com you'll see it right there. Or you can go to thejoyjunkie.com free and it's just Junkie is J U N K I E. I'm sure it's gonna be in the show notes, but that's one great resource. And then I also, you know, do a podcast as well. And if you, you know, just, if you just click the little search icon and you click communication or confidence or something like that, you'll find a bunch of episodes to listen to about that too.

Amazing. I'll link that all up too for you guys who Want to do that? So go to the show notes. Okay, so that brings up boundaries, because obviously these have been. We've been kind of talking about them without maybe putting that actual word on everything. But I think it. It runs into everything, right? And finding your voice to set boundaries. So when we talk about finding your voice, I think the biggest thing, and I guess this is kind of the same thing, but what people struggle with is, when do I know I'm being. When do I. When am I being selfish? Or when am I doing this for me? How do I know if I'm doing this for me to be a better person, for the best interest or, you know, just because I'm irritated with somebody? Do people ever ask that question to you? Like, when is it for me? Or for the best interest? Like, when are boundaries really important? How do I know how to set them?

Yeah, that's it. That's a great question. It's. I think that it is. Most of the time, this is the easiest way to find it. This is the easiest way to find it is what are the things you're complaining about? What do you bitch about? Because most of the time, the things that we complain about to our spouses or to our family or our best friend is stuff that we're not willing to give voice to in order to make some change. We're just being what I like to call the totally girl. When somebody's like, will you do this? Will you do that? Totally.

Oh, sure.

Totally. Even though that means no self care, no time with the husband, no time to work out, no time for these other things that really do make me better. So I think there's a couple of things to note about this. First of all, I argue that we need to be more selfish. And I think that really, it's semantics, right? But I think that I actually have a podcast called why Selfish is the New Black. And it's this idea that when we tend to. To self, we are much better. I mean, this. I'm not the first person for you guys to hear this. Like, we're much better. Wives, mothers, fathers, husbands, business partners, associates. I mean, philanthropists, everything. I mean, think about parents out there. I'm not a parent, but I don't know why this is such a great example. Parents out there, when you're depleted of sleep, when you're stressed out, are you stoked to color with your kid? No. You're, like, cranky. You yell at them, right? Like, you're way worse when you don't tend to self care. So I think There's a little bit of a switch in our perspective that actually caring for ourselves is one of the most loving things we can do for our other relationships. And one of the best examples for people in our lives, like, hey, I value who I am. When is that not a good message for people? So going back to the whole boundary conversation, that's the first thing I would do, is start looking at what do I constantly complain about? Because oftentimes it's easier for us to stay locked in that victimhood instead of being brave enough to be a survivor. So we'll just stay stuck in that story. Because if you're stuck in that story of complaining, you get to blame. It's your boss's fault. It's your ex's fault. If only he would get his shit together. If only this. If only. Then it's easy. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to do anything brave. And you get stuck in that same rat race, which means you have to tolerate everything. And it's incredibly disempowering. So start with, what do I chronically complain about? And then I have kind of like a little step by step of how to establish a boundary. I don't know if we have time for that.

Yes, we do. If you have time. I have time.

Okay, sure. So I kind of have this little three steps. So the first thing is after you've kind of reflected on that, like, oh, yeah, I am so mad about this one thing I volunteer for at my church. But my husband knows all about it. But the chick at the church would have no idea, because I'm all, yeah, totally, I can't wait to her. Right? Yeah. So then you call yourself out and you go, oh, okay, there's what I need to establish a boundary about. So the first thing is you decide. Decide on the boundary. And this one, I always encourage people to really quantify it. So if it's something like that anecdote we were using earlier to say, like, hey, Mom, I need you to respect me more, that's like, okay, I'll get right on that. Like, what does that mean? You know? But if you said, hey, mom, here's what I am requesting. I am requesting that you do not bring up baptism. I'm requesting that you do not take our children to church. Requesting that you don't converse. You know? Like, it has to be extremely quantifiable. Cause you need to know if that boundary is being crossed. And you also need to set up that person for success. Right. Like, they don't if they have no clue, that's on you, my friend. Like, it's time for you to start speaking up. And you can do it with grace and kindness. You don't have to be a big old B about it. Then the second step is to actually deliver the boundary, and that's where that real grace and kindness piece comes in. And one of the things, my favorite tools in delivering a boundary is to start with gratitude. So to start by saying, I love how you love our family, and I love where your heart is at, and you are so incredibly great to us, and I just want to thank you for that. And there have been some things on my heart, and there's been some things on my mind, and I really want to discuss them with you. And then you deliver, and you say very specifically, after you've decided how you want to show up, what's your new definition of success? And you deliver that very definitive boundary. I'm asking that you don't do this. I'm asking that you please don't say this X, Y, or Z. Right? And then the third step, which is just as important, but we often overlook it, is enforcing the boundary. And that may or may not come down to an ultimatum. I don't even think when you deliver the boundary, you really have to say, and if you do try to baptize my kid, then you're gonna lose all rights. You're gonna do this. That you know, you don't have to deliver the ultimatum right away. It really depends on the severity of the situation. But I usually just say, deliver the request. And especially if you value that relationship enough, give them the benefit of the doubt that they just needed to be told what you needed in a nice way, in a kind way. A lot of times we tell our parents or we tell our kids or our family or our best friends exactly what we need, but we're really mean about it. So we set ourselves up in a way which we cannot be heard screaming and yelling, all of that. So if you deliver this really kindly and then they breach it and they do something that is in direct opposition to what you asked, then you get to decide, where's the enforcement? Do you say, hey, I have really asked you repeatedly, please do not do X, Y, or Z. If it happens again, I really don't feel as though I have another choice but to do fill in the blank so you don't. Boundaries aren't always ultimatum right up front, like, guard up. That's why I say, enter with grace and kindness, enter with gratitude, and say everything as kindly as possible. And it's not that easy, by the way, to be wrapped up in a nice little three step formula. See, this took me decades to figure out. Give yourself some compassion for some baby steps, you guys, please.

This is beautiful. I can literally see where things have gone right in our families, in our, you know, talking with anyone. And I'll tell you, I've only been a. The word to me is still even like something I don't love. But I've been a boss for like three years now. And the first year it was awful. The worst boss ever. Because I was, I wanted to be their friend. And it's like that doesn't help them. It doesn't tell them you can be friends, but it doesn't tell them what you. It's like I had so much trouble telling them what was needed.

That's right.

I have no idea. And the more. Just more definitive and more loving and more that I come back with, like, just like you wrote in step two here, if I have a boundary, I always come with gratitude because I really let myself go to that place of gratitude and picture that person just wrapped in love and all of the great things that they do. And it really helps me also go into that conversation almost in a more loving stance. Not like I have to, to deliver this gratitude and then, you know, tell them what I really feel. It's like, no, I love this person for these reasons. And this is why I want, you know, we deliver the boundaries because we love them and if we didn't, it's kind of like I look back and I'm like, you know, when you really love someone, you will set up a boundary because otherwise you start to resent them and dislike them and really start to tell a story around them. So boundaries are actually the most loving thing that you can possibly do to someone for someone and for yourself self. So this is so powerful. Yeah, I really needed this too.

Oh, good, good, good.

Just such a good reminder because it's so easy to step away and be like, no, I'm going to let that pass again. And it's not the loving thing to do though. It's not. Because eventually you don't love them as much anymore because you're living in this story of them taking from you or, you know, driving you crazy or harming you. So thank you so much for that. Okay. All right. So anything else that you want to share around boundaries that you feel like is just coming to the top for you right now?

Well, the only thing that I really wanted to Kind of underscore is that we're obviously tidying this up. Like, here's all you do in this lovely little podcast. And I just want to underline again. Give yourself some baby steps. You know, even if your first item of business is to just start looking at what you've been complaining about and just maybe throw that up on the top of a page and just start journaling about it and then start contemplating, what's my role in here? How do I feel backed up against the wall? Why do I feel like I have no choice? What are my choices? And just start there. It's not about having this massive come to Jesus with your spouse or something. It really does start with just cracking that door open. So if you're feeling overwhelmed or like, oh, my God, I'll never get there, I would have said the same thing, too. I would have said, I can't. I would have said, there's no way. I would have said that, too. But I kept pushing and I kept taking those little baby steps. One thing at a time. And just know, even if you don't believe it, believe me that you are. You are capable of it. You really, truly are.

I love that. You know, I just want to tell people from your own words, what does that. What does it feel like on the other side after you do the work, after you set the boundaries? Explain to me what your life is like now in comparison now that you have done the tough stuff, felt the feelings, set the boundaries.

Oh, man. Okay, so I view it like, oh, my. Well, first of all, I feel like I get to be in a constant state of joy, of happiness, right? Instead of being. Instead of chasing all the time. And it's kind of that dangling carrot where we think, especially if you're a high achiever. Okay, well, soon as I get my law degree. Oh, well, as soon as I, you know, get into this great firm, and then, oh, now I need to make partner now, you know, and you keep going. You go, okay, well, maybe it's. If I get a spouse. Oh, maybe if I buy a home. And it just keeps. You keep chasing it and chasing it. And what that does is you kind of inevitably postpone your happiness forever because it's always outside of you instead of internally. So now my perspective is so different. And it doesn't necessarily mean that I don't have pain or sorrow or hardship. The emotions are there, but it's. The constant is one of happiness instead of a constant of sorrow with intermittent pieces of happiness and joy. So it's kind of flipping that script a little bit. And I think probably the baseline of all of that is that I do believe in my heart of hearts that I am totally whole and valuable and I love who I am. And then there's everything else that's outside of me. So if I get to have this incredible career, that's a bonus. It's like a gift of life. It doesn't make me valuable. I already am. If I get to love as intimately and crazily as I do with my husband, oh my God, what a bonus. That's beautiful. Gift to my life. It's not. It doesn't make me lovable or I already was with or without that relationship. And conversely, just because I go through a tremendous hardship, you know, the loss of my father in 07 completely rocked my world. Depths of despair. But I was also very clear that the situation was tough and this situation sucked. I didn't suck. So then what happens now is all of this external experience of life is outside of me and my self worth isn't contingent on being loved or accepted. They're either addendums and additions to my life or there are subtractions and opportunities for boundary and strength. So it's just a totally different perspective on life.

Wow, that was beautiful. And I know that it's a never ending journey.

Oh, yes.

So just one minute on that because I think people think, you know, listening to you speak, that you've arrived and in a way you have. But can you explain what I'm saying? That it's. You're there, but you're never there?

Yeah. Okay. So here's the beast about it, is that as we evolve and grow, so does our fear and so does our internal critic. Our inner critic, I like to call it your inner shit talker. That grows. And I mean, it's part of our human psyche, right? So it will also evolve. It gets smarter, it gets more stealthy and has more active tactics. So you have to start navigating that at a different level. But again, it's about how you view life. So now instead of feeling like life is just happening to me, I feel like life is a learning experience and that's just a matter of how you are looking at things. That's just perspective. So I think that there's, there's. The way I view it is truly that we have seasons, you know, and you might have a really strong season of empowerment and then you might go into a new season of hardship and struggle. You might enter another one of euphoria and bliss. And then you might have another one where you enter a season of lack of faith, despondence, grief, heartbreak. So it's understanding that the emotions that come with life are always going to be there. That's just messaging. Emotions are just messaging. It's something for us to listen to, to go, oh, whoa, something's off here. What do I need to tap into? What do I. You know, it's like if you eat gluten and you break out like crazy, you don't get mad at gluten. You go, oh, okay, I understand. Body. We don't work well with that certain thing in our system. So if you go out in life and you experience all this hardship and pain around something, you go, okay, body, this isn't working. What's happening is this, where do I need to grow? Where. How do we heal this? And you. So it becomes this really symbiotic relationship with your. With your body and spirit. So anyway, the point is, is, like, you're never done. You never arrive. You just learn how to manage it so much more powerfully.

I love that. And I love that you talk about seasons, because, honestly, if we did arrive, you know what the funny thing about humans is? We'd be so bored because we. We're meant to grow and we're meant to learn. So, like you said, the perspective shift of when. When tough things come your way and, you know, loving what is. It's just like, okay, this is going to give me some. It's even more rich when you go through it. It's like you can think you're there and you're, oh, this feels so good, and life is so great, and this is what it's all about. And then the funny thing is, is that the challenges happen and you go, oh, this is what that was all about. And you don't even. It just gets more and more beautiful if you can view it as a lesson. And I just love that. Like, I want people to look forward to that. So thank you so much, Amy. I so appreciate you. I can't even tell you how much I loved this conversation for real. I was like. Had a few tears and, like, full body chills, so I'm so grateful. So one more time, just real quick, where can people follow and find you?

Yeah, kind of the entire hub is over@thejoy junkie.com and you can grab ebooks there for free and start working through that. And I'm hugely into getting into action because I think a lot of this stuff can be really heady and conceptual, like boundaries, like, oh, that Sounds like a good idea, but what's the steps? So I like a lot of systems, so hopefully that's helpful for you guys. And then the podcast, too, is another great resource that we've done. Oh, my gosh. We've been doing it for like, three years. And my husband is my sidekick, so we have it. He likes to say he's the voice of the people.

Love it.

So he's always kind of playing the devil's advocate and stuff, and so we have a really great time and he does a fun little Would you rather segment. So I really like to keep things light. I will say I have explicit content on all podcasts. We do not watch our language, so just know it'll be a little bit of a different vibe if you come and hang out.

All good.

Fairly warning everybody, but yeah, it's good stuff.

I so, so seriously, woman. I'm like, how did I not meet you before this? But hey, the universe works perfectly, so. So. Okay, you guys, if you loved this episode as much as I did, make sure you share it with your friends. Tell everybody about it. And until next time, earn. Earn your happy. Bye, everyone. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to October itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment, Tell us what you think, tell us what you want to hear more of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys. Bye. Bye.