772. How to Make Some Noise & Speak Your Truth with Andrea Owen

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Hey everyone, welcome back to the Earn your Happy podcast. I have a guest who has been a former guest on here a couple times and I will tell you she is welcome back as much as she wants. And as long as she is writing her incredible books, I can't be happier to share them with you.

I know that the feedback from her.

Previous episodes and all of her books have been proven to push you to the next level. So today is no different. She is dealing out raw, real truth. I'm obsessed with her. My guest is Andrea Owen. She's a speaker, a life coach and author, a hellraiser. Andrea Owen is creating a global impact in women's empowerment with her books being translated into 18 languages and available in 22 countries. She helps high achieving women maximize unshakable confidence and mastery resilience. You can learn more about her all@AndreaOwen.com and you guys, it's so crazy because the first time I found Andrea was actually in an airport. I didn't find her. I found one of her books and.

It just popped out to me.

Read it on the airplane. Read the entire book end to end on the airplane. DM'd her and she reached back out.

To me, came on the show, and.

That started this four year journey of having Andrea Owen on my show and in my life. And I know that you're going to love her as much as I do.

So let's get started. Andrea, welcome back to the show. Is this your third time?

I think it is. I think it is. I'm honored and I, I hope I'm the only person who's been on three times.

I. You know what, I actually have like a couple women. I think there's like a handful that I'm just like, okay, whatever you have coming up. Cause I just want another conversation with you. Like, come on, come on down, Come on down.

Yeah, I always have something to talk about with you.

Yes, well, you always have something to talk about, which you're like just one of those people who I think you are in love with life, school, and learning the lesson for yourself and then going right around and teaching it. And it's just like, I, I so resonate with that. Like everything that I'm going through, I literally almost have to hold back from being like, is it too soon? I learned that yesterday. Like, I want to teach this already. Should I get on and do this? Why do you, like, were you always that way growing up? Were you always like a teacher archetype or were you? Tell me about what that looked like for you, like, the first time you realized that you really wanted to share life lessons with people.

Well, I would love to say I was a child who knew that inherently, but I was not. So I grew up in a family where there was so much love. There was so much love and fun and music and all of those things. And we also didn't talk about the hard things. And I was born as the child who really wanted to point out that the emperor had no clothes. I don't know if you're familiar with that story, but it's like a folk tale. And everybody else was like, shh, no, we don't talk about that and keep quiet. And it was painful to know truths that were happening and not be able to voice them. And so I internalized all of those ways of being and those beliefs, and I believe that it then manifested as severe codependence. I was a love addict in my late teens and 20s, which then turned into an abusive relationship with alcohol and an abusive relationship with my partner of 13 years. And when my life fell apart, which I think I've talked about on a previous episode here with you, that was when I had like my holy crap moment and started going to therapy so much and 12 step programs and all of these things to heal. And I started blogging about it. And I really wasn't the type to be really open with my friends, so it was kind of odd. And it was so. This was in 2007, 2008. This was a while ago. This is like a million years ago in Internet years. It really is started to. Yeah, people started to read it and were like, me too. And I thought I wasn't expecting it. There was no strategy behind it at all. It really was just organic. And then really when I got sober in 2011 was when I felt like I had to talk about it. As a high achieving woman with a high bottom, nobody knew that I had a very dysfunctional relationship with alcohol. And it wasn't really the booze. Like the booze was just the symptom. It could have been anything. And for me at that time, it was booze. So that's kind of the trajectory of what that looked like.

Okay, so you just brought me back just to my home where very loving family, but we had. It was more of a kind of restrictive religion where people just. We didn't. It's almost like if you didn't talk about it, it just wasn't there. And it was almost like acting like nothing had actually happened. Which made you feel even crazier as a child. Cause you're like, should I, like I feel something or things are going on or this doesn't feel right or whatever that is. So what were some of the hard things that you wish would have been talked about in your home that would have like completely transformed? You know, maybe the one. There's so many. Right. I'm like listing mine out in my head right now. But what were some that pop into your mind right away, that you're like, okay, moving forward, maybe with my children or. This is never. This is always going to be something that is talked about. We're always going to shed light on this. What were some of those things?

Just to kind of flip through some quickly. We had a family friend who committed suicide. I was probably 9 or 10. And it was the wife of my dad's best friend. And I remember standing in the hallway, my dad came home from work and called my mom's name. And they were standing in the doorway. And he said, you know, that Barbara had taken her own life. And he collapsed in my mother's arms. I had never seen my dad cry before. And I was terrified. Ran to my room and cried. Nobody talked about it. I had asked my mom about it and she was just, you know, shut it down. Like, we don't talk about it. And then a few years later, my mom's brother died suddenly. Her only brother. And I came home from school and she was. Both my parents were home, which was unusual. My dad said, leave mom alone. She was in her room with a light out, and for three days she was just shuffling around the. In her robe and slippers and looking like she was in a coma. We did not talk about it. And I later found out that the doctor had prescribed her Valium, which my mom doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs or anything. And she just. Her grief was so immense. And I was scared. It terrified me. Nobody talked about it. And when I was 17, I also knew from a pretty early age that if I ever got pregnant out of wedlock that I would be sent away to live with my aunt who lives in Canada. She's passed away now, but she's my great aunt. So she was my grandma's age and she was a nun. She was a Catholic nun who lived in a convent. So I was told, you are going to get shipped off to live with Sister Noel. You will have the baby there and you'll come home and live your life. My parents grew up Catholic, so, I mean, it's just what they did back then. And so I was terrified. So I got pregnant when I was 17 on accident. And I couldn't tell my mom because I was a senior in high school. I didn't want to get shipped off to live in Canada during my senior year. And it was just so terrifying. And I did end up having an abortion. And while I don't regret it now, I do think it was the Best choice at the time. I would have given anything to be able to come to my mom and land in her lap and say, I'm in trouble. I don't know what to do. Can you help me? And have her say, yeah, we're gonna figure this out as a family. But the shame I felt at that time also of thinking I was so ashamed of myself and my behavior, thinking that my parents would not be able to stand me living in their house, let alone the country. Like, they would have to ship me off to another country. That shame lived with me for so long. So, I mean, no big deal. Just like, a few things, you know.

There'S just a couple real small ones, though.

Just some minor.

How is that relationship with your parents now? Have you obviously ended up bringing that to them? Have you talked to them about how you felt with that? And what was that conversation like?

Well, my dad passed away in 2016, and my dad was. My parents are also older, so they are actually older than boomers. They're part of the silent generation, which I think is such a funny. Not funny name for that generation. I actually don't think I've heard that before. Yeah, it's super interesting. And so they. My dad was born a very sensitive soul, especially for a man. And it just breaks my heart to think about how he was never able to express his feelings. And he cried really easily, but was ashamed about it. And my mom is. So it's an interesting family dynamic. So I tell everyone, families are complicated. Probably the three words I say the most to my clients on the podcast, families are complicated.

You're like, look, I have the tattoo right here.

Yeah.

Yep.

I have it on my back. But my mom, you know, she is trying really hard, and I can see the struggle for her, like, of what she was, how she was brought up and raised to be a certain way, and how different her youngest daughter is. And also, you know, her trying to meet me where I'm at. And I will say that's been incredible. And she has apologized to me for certain things that have been such an amazing moment for us. And I'm incredibly grateful that she's done that, that she's looked me in the face and given me a genuine apology and taken responsibility for some of her behavior. And so, yeah, it's not perfect, but it's definitely work in progress. And I'm lucky. I think that. And trust me when I tell you, Lori, I would so much rather have a hard conversation with one of my kids, teachers, or my neighbor or even my husband, like, but when it comes to my mom, how long can I procrastinate?

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Oh, my God.

You're.

You're taking me back to this. The only. The only reason I opened that door of a hard conversation with my mother is because I didn't know what I was getting myself into and had signed up for a landmark forum. And they're like, okay, write down all of the things or write down the main thing that's kind of stopping you, like, the tough conversation that you need to have. So I was like, I'll probably just have to share with my neighbor. That's cool. I don't know this person. And so I write down in detail, like, the conversation that I need to have with my mother. And they're like, okay, you're going on break. You can't come back in the room until you've called this person and had this conversation. I was like, bait and switch. Like, this was. So I ended up, like, opening that door on that break. And it was probably the worst thing I've ever experienced, and it opened the door. So I want to know for you, like, what was that moment? Because so many people are listening to this and they're like, I mean, I would. There. Some people would rather, like, jump out of a plane without a parachute on then, like, open that door and talk about the. Let out all of the emotion and the skeletons and the shame and the, like, blame and the pain that comes with that initial conversation. That is a tidal wave at first, right? It's just like a tidal wave of emotion. So what did that look like for you? How did you do that?

Okay, my stomach hurts. Just you telling that story. Like, I might have to break for diarrhea. Because that is. First of all, did they give you the skills to be able to have the conversation or they just were like.

They had done, like, a bunch of work before that, but I did not know it was leading into that. I mean, I can honestly say it was one of the best things I've ever done, but I was not. Yeah, it was like, I felt the way you felt times because it was real.

That's intense. Yeah. Well, I think that it comes down to the first question is what are you looking for? What are you wanting to get out of the conversation?

Yes.

And just be honest. Nothing's wrong. There are no wrong answers. Do you want forgiveness? Do you want them to apologize? Do you want them to? Whatever it is, it can be anything you want. Not saying you're gonna get it, but I think it's good to get clear on what your heart intention is and then always know that you have no control over what the outcome is going to be. They could shut it down. The other person can tell you that you're wrong. They could get defensive, they could get mean. Really depends on the person. Before people even venture into that conversation, I always ask them, like, how invested are you in this relationship? Because that's important. And typically we're invested in our immediate family. So, yeah, you only can control how you show up. And my friend Amy Smith, she has taught me everything I know about hard conversations. And she always says, come at these conversations from a place of grace and kindness. That is all you have control over. And I would never ask anyone to walk into one of those doors without being prepared, be completely prepared. This is, I would say, like, 20% of the work I do with clients is planning out these conversations that they're gonna have with a parent or adult child or a partner, someone on their team that is so powerful.

And as you say that, I remember we had set an intention of what we wanted in mine was just. I just wanted peace. That was the only thing. And so I remember thinking, I may not get peace on her side, but it will be peace for me to. I had to decide what peace meant to me. And it was. It will be peace that I won't have to live with this lie anymore. Like, that I can start, you know, telling who I actually am and how I actually feel without worrying about somebody, you know, just acting like someone else that I'm not around. Especially around a parent, you know, you don't want to be. You don't want to go home if you can't be yourself.

That is like, PhD level work. Like, I just want to acknowledge how difficult that is. Because when it's our family, there is a biological need to belong. It's not just, you know, like, on a practical level, like, no, no, no, no. This is deep in our DNA. And it goes back. The science around this, the anthropology is so fascinating to me because it goes back to many, many, many, many years ago when to be excluded from our community, our family, our tribe, if you will, meant death, literal death, because we couldn't survive without our village and without our family. And that still lives inside of our subconscious. So there's a really interesting term called tribal shame. And that is when families say things like anytime a person say, for instance, your family of origin doesn't have a whole lot of education and maybe they live in poverty and so like a person who does go to college and maybe they get a great job, if the family says things like, oh, look at miseducated over here and they're kind of joking, it might be like that, oh, you think you're too big for your britches and oh, look at your nice car and your nice clothes and that type of language. It's called tribal shame. And we typically don't want any members of our group or our family to leave and we shame them. I mean, this is excommunication from churches, et cetera. So it's a real thing for people to self sabotage so they can still feel like they belong and all that. To say it is intense work and I commend anybody who attempts to do it, no matter the outcome.

I mean, you just. Yeah, I think we all on some.

Level.

I think we all on some level are still dealing with that. I mean, you name just think. I just want everyone right now to think about going home for the holidays. And we all like have to prepare. We all have to mentally. We're in summer right now, so we're still okay, but come November we're starting to prepare. So yes, family is complicated. Okay. So you talk a lot about like you have, you know, I know that we've kind of been in the like personal development space for a little while. You've written amazing books and you're just at this place of like, it sounds like just freedom for yourself where you've come to recognize that you really want to get to the root of problems. What was the moment when you're like, oh my God, we're not actually talking about the roots and how do we, how do we heal that?

Yeah, well, that started probably around 2011. I used to talk about the inner critic all the time in the beginning of my practice. And then I realized these patterns that kept coming up for women. And that's when I realized that a lot of our negative self talk is stemmed from shame and our fear of shame. And so that's when in 2014 I went and got certified in Brene Brown's work, her methodology. And it was Enormously helpful. And then a few years goes by. It was 2016. It was 2017. It was the MeToo movement. It was the Kavanaugh hearings. It was, you know, civil unrest. And, you know, this. What are we on now? Like, the fourth wave of feminism? I'm losing count now. And I thought to myself for a while, I feel like there's bigger things at play that. That not that many people are talking about. In other words, I felt like the culture that raised us, sexism. And even as a parent of both a boy and a girl. Just this morning I was talking to my husband about we need to look at the kids chores. Because I never had chores growing up, and I grew up with the worst work ethic. Side note, sidebar. I'm the youngest of five. They were like, good luck with life.

Figure it out.

Watch your brothers and sisters figure it out. Yeah, they're fine. So we want to instill just a work ethic with our children. And so my husband said, okay, I'm going to buy a push mower and teach Colton, who's 13, to at least mow the backyard. And then I'm like, okay, well, I can have Sydney vacuum in between when the housekeeper's here. And then I thought about it and I'm like, okay, we also need to reverse this because this is very sexist to have her do the vacuuming and him do that. But it was sort of a no brainer to both my husband and I, you know, and he and I both grew up. We're Gen Xers, and we grew up with pretty traditional gender roles, even though we both had both parents that worked. And it's still. It's just these things that we grow up seeing. And for women and girls, you know, women and girls are the virtues of powerful, assertive, direct, bossy. These are not positive virtues that women and girls are encouraged to be like. And then when you are that way, which I have been that way, we are in some ways punished for it. It's definitely frowned upon. And I just. I knew that this is. I just couldn't talk about women's empowerment anymore without talking about the culture that raised us. Because many times the reason we struggle with perfectionism and people pleasing and overachieving is because of the patriarchy. And I also wanna say before anybody turns this off, the patriarchy hurts men terribly, terribly. And it's everybody, and I wanna just start having that conversation.

So for you, what did you observe in your life that you're like, wow, this is a direct result of how I was Raised something that you had to work really hard to break and that you still do.

Another long list of things. You know, I'm thinking back, like, in high school and how we behaved towards each other. The slut shaming that went on, and women, you know, pitting against each other. Like, there was this, like, high school prank that we did, and there was this. One of the football players was really, really blonde, and we went and it was like. I don't remember, like, what we were doing, but we got shoe polish and we wrote on his car, do you have blonde pubes? And his girlfriend came and threatened me at school. And it was just this animosity and girls hating each other and. And I had to really take a look at my own internalized misogyny. And, like, where do I dehumanize strippers and adult film actresses? Where do I slut shame? Where do I judge other women for wearing certain things or being at a certain level of success or even just for their fierce ambition? Where have I just judged and made quick assumptions about other women that I probably wouldn't make those assumptions if she were a man, if it was a man doing the same thing. I've had a couple bosses in my life who were women who were powerful, and I greatly disliked them. Again, I would highly doubt that I would have felt the same way about them if they were a man. And it's just been really interesting to look back on my life and think about these instances and not from a place of shaming myself or saying I was wrong. I was just doing what I was raised to do and what I saw from other women and on the media. In movies. Oh, my gosh. Movies. Especially 80s movies.

Yeah, but. Yeah, I was just gonna say that.

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I was just thinking that. Cause I'm like, I feel like thankfully my parents were pretty good about like my dad literally treated me like a boy. I remember saying that sentence to him all the time.

I'm like I'm not a boy.

And now I'm so grateful like that he was like, you can build cabinets, you can, you know, help me put this toilet back together. And I was just like. I remember though being like you're putting me in the wrong role. Cause I was so convinced and now I'm grateful.

It's good to have both.

It's so. I am. It's probably the thing I am most grateful for now is that he just did not act like I. He just didn't care what I was. He was like, this is what we're doing today.

You weren't fragile.

No, it was fantastic. So now I feel like I'm equipped with for a lot more than I would have been without that. But what do you think for the girls today? What do you think their patterns that they will have to interrupt and break will be that they are seeing, whether it's from parents. And I know that, God, we could go on and on about social media, but what do you think we. Let's just start there. What do you think maybe our generation is handing down to this next generation that they will have to break the cycle?

Gosh, that's a great question. And off the top of my head, I can only think about things that they're doing differently and better than we did. I mean, let's just talk about consent for a second. I didn't even know what that word was in high school. And I tell the story in the book about a couple of instances where that was not happening for me and like, you know, and kind of how that that ended up shaping me and even just sex in general, I don't know. So you grew up in a religious world and, you know, purity culture. Purity culture was a thing especially in the 90s. I was already kind of. Kind of out of the church at that point, But I grew up in the 80s where you did not have sex before marriage and. And you definitely did not get pregnant and have abortions and just the judgment and harsh criticism we had and so. And also just like, things like body autonomy for girls. My daughter, I just. I didn't even take a mirror down to look at my vulva and the surrounding area until I was in my 20s. My 20s, I did not know what it looked like down there. And when my daughter was five, there was something that we were doing, and I won't get into the details, but I handed her a mirror and was like, here, you do it on yourself, because I want you to get to know your body. And I told my husband about it later, and he was, like, kind of uncomfortable by it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. I need her to understand not only what her own body looks like, but how it functions and that it is hers, that she is free to do with it as she pleases. Because. Because I did not get that message. I felt like my body was for the pleasure of men. And I don't want that for my daughter. I absolutely want her to learn something else. So I'm hopeful for Generation Z and Millennials as well, but especially Gen Z and Gen Alpha. I think that's the generation after them that they are breaking that cycle.

So good. What are you seeing maybe that's coming up in your own kids that you're kind of like, wow, that was unexpected. And I guess we're talking about this, or I guess we're gonna do whatever that is.

They're so interesting about mental health.

Ah, interesting. How old are they again?

They're like 13 and 11.

Okay. Wow.

I don't know if this is because I'm 46 or if it's because it's true, but I feel like the pendulum has kind of swung so far the other way where there is, you know, people can get a little bit too obsessed. It's called over identification. It's a psychology term where people get so caught up in labeling everything they do. Like, is this perfectionism? Is this people pleasing? Do I have anxiety? Do I have this? Do I have that? And I think it can prevent people from trying to find solutions to whatever it is, no matter what the name of it is. But I'm happy that they're talking about mental health. So happy. Because that wasn't the case, you know, when you and I were young. But at the same time, I think it can go a little bit too far. And. Yeah. And as a parent, I don't know when to tell them, like, no, you're just nervous. Or totally coddle and validate their feelings of anxiety. It's a slippery slope.

Foreign.

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Yeah, it's so interesting. I was just in a hair salon overhearing the girls next to me, and they couldn't have been a day over, like, 22. And I was just like, I can't believe I'm gonna say this out loud. I was like, what are the kids talking about? What just happened? So they were talking about, like, mental health, but they were also, like, kind of making. Making jokes. Like, they're like, well, we all have X, Y, and Z, and we all have this, and we all have that. And I was like, I never kind of, like, describing themselves and diagnosing themselves with all of these different things. And I was like, I would have ne. I mean, this language wasn't even being thrown around, let alone, like, in a salon amongst a ton of people, like, just completely open and kind of like, it was just. It was so interesting to me. So, yes, it's definitely out there. It's definitely something that I can see can be a useful tool. But also, like, we're now, like, diagnosing each other with what we. What we think we have. I guess. So that was kind of eye opening.

Yeah. And as a parent, like, it's hard enough to try to navigate the fact that these kids will not know a world without the Internet or without social media. And, you know, my parents didn't. Didn't have to deal with that, so we have to navigate that and all this mental health stuff. And, you know, my kids have. Or my son, he's in middle school, and there's a trans person at his school. And I'm just like, I think it's amazing that it's just not a big deal anymore when that was unheard of. It was a big deal that there was one boy in my high school who came out as gay, and that made the news like, it was huge. And it's so different now in so many good ways. But as a parent trying to navigate that, I'm still Kind of doing this awkward dance where I feel like I'm stepping on the toes of my children. Like, I don't know who's leading. I need help.

Does your son. Did your son say anything? Like, does he. Is it. Is it talked about in school or is it pretty widely accepted?

He goes to a private school, and so there's like six to eight kids in his class. And it's for kids with learning differences. So I don't think a whole lot of things surprise them. They're used to differences. I don't know if it would be the case at a public school, but I'm glad that they're. There's places where these kids can be accepted, and I know it's not like that in all parts of the country. We're in the south, and I think it depends on where you live, but I'm just glad things are changing.

Because you're still working with women, right? Are you still doing. You're still doing coaching? Okay, so when you are right now working with women, what are you working on and what are you seeing? I feel like there goes through phases of what we're kind of working through for the time period in the world. What are you seeing is kind of the block or the struggle around what they want to do.

It's. Honestly, it still is. Like, I'm thinking of a client I'm working with right now, and it's still. Especially if they're. I tend to work with. Well, I work with women of all ages, but it seems to be a trend. I've been working with women in their late 30s and 40s, and it's still body stuff. Still. And it is also still trying to do everything and take care of everyone else before themselves. And they also have a really hard time setting boundaries. So those are the. Those are kind of the main things that we're talking about in our sessions.

Are you finding, especially. I love the topic of boundaries. Are you finding that it's the same thing that we were just talking about, kind of the tribal shame that you had mentioned. Like, they're afraid to set boundaries because they're going to be perceived as rude or not loved or not accepted anymore. Like, what is the main. Are you seeing, like a main boundary they need to set? Is it typically with, like, close family.

It's all different things. You know, I have some people who. It's a work thing, whether it's like a manager or a coworker, many times it's their partner. And I mean, and it can be in various kinds of marriages. You know, the marriages that aren't really strong. And maybe the wife has never spoken up really before. And I've also had a client who her husband is incredibly supportive and would be open to any conversation and is also open to feedback about how he's being a partner. And she's still scared of setting the boundary. And that's, I believe, where it comes down to this unconscious fear that we have of being rejected. And that is that it's not only our job to take care of everyone else's feelings, but it's what makes us a quote unquote good woman. And in this woman's case, a good wife. Like she does not. She just takes it. She just takes whatever she can get. And if she's not happy, then that's just kind of the price you pay for being a wife or a stay at home mom or what have you. So the reasons vary, but some of it comes down to her self worth. Like she doesn't think that her needs and wants matter as much as her partner or her boss or her kids or whomever.

Okay, so you have. So your new book, which is so exciting. I said it's just, I feel like you're a book machine, but you're an author, you're a writer, you have that teacher archetype. You like to turn around and teach people. I love that. Make some noise, speak your mind and own your strengths. What was the message that was coming through for you? And here's the thing. So I understand the book journey. I only did it once, but I feel something bubbling up again. It's almost like a full shift has to. It comes in your life and you're like, oh, now there's all of these lessons that I hadn't talked about. So what was the bubbling up that was happening around this book that you're like, this is what has to come out. This is what's in the book.

Well, I mean, the last few years have been tough and for so many people. And like I said, I'm obsessed with the root of the problem. I saw things happening socially, culturally, politically, and really was trying to figure out, first of all, what's my lane? What am I equipped to talk about? What do I need to research more? What do I need to go to therapy for before I can talk about this? Don't teach from your wounded place. And honestly, Lori, it was the MeToo movement, I think that sort of like pushed me over the edge. As I know for many women I was re traumatized with just seeing so many Women's stories and seeing celebrities fall down and women speaking out about sexual harassment, sexual abuse, sexual assault. And after the Kavanaugh hearings, I was shook. Isn't that what the kids still say? I had a moment, and it was really rough. And I thought about my own experiences and the endless street harassment that started when I was about 13. I had been sexually harassed at every job I've ever worked out, except for the jobs where I only worked with women I'd been sexually assaulted. And I know that you have an experience with that as well, and just. I'm an enneagram 8. And enneagram eights, when we are in fear or feel our life is uncertain and out of control, we immediately get angry. I'm also an Aries, so I have, like, that double whammy. And I was angry. I was so angry. And after I sort of calmed down a little bit. I'm friends with anger. Like, it doesn't bother me, which I know is a struggle for a lot of women. Like, I don't just get angry. I get ragey. And I knew that that was it. Like, I had to talk about this, but I didn't know what. Like, what, am I just going to, like, write a book about how pissed I am? That's not helpful. So it all came to me in 2019. I had a download. I was in Savannah, Georgia, and I had a download of this is the book. The original title was Raise Hell, and it's a song by the band Dorothy that I love. And I just felt like I couldn't talk about women's empowerment again without naming this elephant in the room. And it's the culture that raised us. I mean, whether or not you grew up in purity culture culture, whether you not you grew up with a progressive family, like, we all drank the same Kool Aid because it was the only beverage that was offered. That was it. Like, this is how things go around here in the United States and in other countries. And I was sick of it. I was sick of my clients coming to me and holding themselves back and not raising their rates in their business and not asking for a raise at work and not having the conversation with their partner because they were afraid of how they might be viewed, afraid of pushback, afraid of the.

No.

And it just. I get so fired up around women's empowerment. And at the same time, I couldn't just tell people to, like, flip tables and, like, flip off their boss. And, like, that's gonna solve everything. So how do we simultaneously, you know, kind of like, I don't know if save face is the expression I'm looking for, but like, how do we live in this culture and be accepted society while at the same time pushing back on it? And that's what this book is. It's not a feminist theory book. It's not heavy handed at all. Like, I still have a sense of humor. It's still, you know, my voice, but it definitely was birthed from a place of anger. I will say that.

Yeah, I mean, typically that's where really great books sometimes are created.

Thank you.

Okay. I love that, you know, that makes me think about just really getting to the root of like what actually holds people back. And it is so much fear and so much shame and so much like breaking out of the way that we were meant to think and especially from our. Or not meant. Sorry that we were raised to think and just the fear around not being accepted and it makes me think about. You had mentioned visibility and I know for me, even when I had thought about. So Andrea, like when we first got our ideas of like what we wanted to do and oh my gosh, we wanna write a book or have a podcast or, or be a speaker because we wanna share from our heart and we wanna inspire and all the things. Then immediately what happened in the beginning for me was like my brain shut that down. Like, don't be visible because then you're going to make your mom upset. You're going to this person over here who knows this secret story that you've been hiding forever might come forward and say something and that's gonna just ruin your life. And all of these things that we were taught to shove in the closet and never talk about, that creates this almost sense of you can't speak, you can't be visible because you're going to either offend or you're gonna look bad or people find out that you're not perfect or kind of like you were telling about your abortion story. People might find out, what if I'm in this space and people find this horrible thing out I've been hiding? So can you share a little bit around when you talk about visibility, how do we free ourselves from the shackles of, of like continuing to wanna hide?

Well, I just wanna acknowledge that all those fears that you mentioned are very real. Like I'm never gonna tell people that I actually don't like the common self help trope around that all fear is false and it's not real. It's like talk to somebody who's had real complex trauma. Talk to somebody who has ptsd. No, you can f right off with that. No. And it real for people. Like, I just. I hired a new therapist at the beginning of COVID and had to do a deep dive with some things. And again, there we were with my family of origin stuff. And, you know, like, I have a central theme of feeling responsible for everyone's feelings. And that started with my dad. You know, he was such a sensitive person. Yeah, you too. Okay. All in the same club. And old habits die hard. Sometimes. Not every time, but a lot of times old habits die hard. And once we go through therapy around something or even write a book about it, that doesn't mean that we're all always completely healed. It can come up in other spaces of our lives, especially when we up level. Every time I have up leveled, I feel like I'm right back in the same place talking to a therapist about the same stuff I was talking about two or three years ago.

Totally.

And it just. It manifests differently. So I just wanted to preface that then to answer your question. It's really around. I. I love to take action, but when it comes to something like this, I really want people to think critically about their beliefs. So I ask over 250 questions in this book because I'm a coach. There's a free workbook, by the way. We can talk about that later. But I wanna really break down and have the reader think about what is your. My friend Elizabeth Dialto says this so beautifully, and she says, what is your conditioning versus what is your trick truth? And that powerful question stopped me in my tracks. And I talk about that in the book. And that's a lot of the questions that I ask, like, what was modeled for you growing up around X topic? How did your parents talk about that? And none of your answers are wrong. This is just about you figuring out how you've been conditioned, how you've essentially been trained to think about something, to believe something, to believe something about yourself or for women in general.

And.

And it can be extremely powerful to uncover that hurtful sometimes because you're like, oh, damn, this is what I think to be true about whatever. And from there you can start to unlearn and question those beliefs, start to create new narratives, start to create new truths for yourself. It is going to sometimes be a long journey. And then take action. You have to do that first part first or else you're just gonna keep going back over and over again to the same spot that you started.

Oh my gosh, that is such a good question. The one that you had what is your conditioning versus your truth? Is there one that you are kind of like sitting with right now for yourself with? What is your conditioning versus your truth.

That you're trying to switch? I tell this story in the book. When I was in fourth or fifth grade, there was this girl that lived down the street, and she was my friend. And I remember I was sitting on the curb, and she was on her bike, and she was riding around in a slow circle, and we were just talking. And then we started talking about this other girl that lived on our street that was in our grade, and she says she thinks she's so hot. And I remember kind of not understanding what it was that this other girl did that made our friend think she was so hot. But also, more than anything, realizing in that moment that you do not want to act like you're so hot, that you do not want to stand out, because not only is that going to be not what a girl does, but also makes other girls talk about you behind your back. And then I grow up and I have this personality where many people think I'm so hot. And you know what? I do think I'm so hot. Kind of amazing. And it's not. And it's not embraced. And, like, I want necklaces made. Like, if you have a hookup for a jeweler. Like, I want the gold nameplate necklace that says conceited. I want one that says conceited, and I want one that says aggressive. Because I. And I actually have a framed photo of this art that I bought that says aggressive on it, and it has green eyes. And I gasped when I saw it. And I'm like, I need that for my office because I've been called aggressive. And it was never a compliment compliment. And to have any quote, unquote masculine tendencies for women, it's not okay. And I'm not saying that to be empowered, we need to act like men. I don't think that that's true. I think your empowerment can look like whatever you want it to look like. I know that you were talking about your new business and being male dominated, and I just. I think that I even forgot what your question was, because I'm so.

You're so in it.

I love it. Actually, I think that you answered it well. Now I'm just thinking about who I can get to make a nameplate with conceited and aggressive. That's where my brain is.

I just want to take back these attributes, you know, and just. And take down the connotation to them. And, like, it's okay for a man to be aggressive and powerful and assertive, but it's not okay for a woman. Or if she is. I mean, look at how they're portrayed in movies. Like, look at Meryl Streep's character in the Devil Wears Prada. Like, you know, she's ambitious, but she. Her family life is falling apart. And yeah, it makes for a good story. But like, these are the movies that are raising our daughters. And the only wealthy woman that I ever saw growing up when I was really little was Cruella De Vil. And. And people are like, oh, it's just a Disney movie. And I'm like, really? Because there was no other rich women who had gotten there themselves who were self made, except her. And she. She was awful. She was an awful human being. So what do you think? I grow up thinking it means to be rich and wealthy on your own. These stories matter. And I want not only the media to change, which I do think it's shifting, but also in our real lives, I specifically looked for a female financial advisor because I want my daughter to see women in finance and banking, and I want her mom. I want my daughter to see her mother talk about money and investing. And I didn't see any of that. Like my mom, other women, my friends, nobody. It was always up to the man. And I want to change that. So anyway, I think the question was something around just the, you know, the way people are and what do I want to. Conditioning versus truth. That's what the question was.

So thank you so much. When people might seem like, I don't know, I'm in it right now with you. I don't remember.

I'm in the washing machine with you. Anyway, my truth is how I am, you know, as a person. And I'm not saying that's for everyone. I'm not saying everyone has to be the way that I am. But it just pains me, Lori, when women think that they're wrong for who they are, whether they're introverted and more on the quiet side and just, you know, are thinkers and observers or if they're more like me and talkative and extroverted. That's what breaks my heart at the end of the day, that women think they're wrong for being. Being who they are. And then that poses the question, like, what is your conditioning versus what is your truth?

I definitely am just thinking in my head. Mine is what you had mentioned before. The conditioning of feeling that I have to be warm and fuzzy all of the time, like 24, 7 and responsible for people's emotions around me. And it's interesting, Andrea, because those things do. They usually do get confirmed. Like, we're not crazy. It is because someone in my family has literally told me I wasn't warm and fuzzy while I was on office hours, like, running in between to my office, to and from. To grab something from the fridge or whatever. And it literally unconsciously makes me just be like, okay, I'm already exhausted, but you have to go. If someone's in your house, go out there and make sure that they're super comfortable and that you do. You know what I mean? And it's like. Cause we work in different times now, and I think that you can understand this. Your home is now your office. And when you leave, sometimes you almost need to. To, like, close that energy off so that you can go to the bathroom, get a meal, whatever. And I observe the pattern. Like, the pattern and the fear around. They're not gonna think they're gonna be. They're gonna think I'm mad at them, or they're not, you know, gonna be, whatever, happy if I don't, X, Y, and Z and put on this, like, performative show. And I know that sounds crazy, but that's literally the pattern that I'm breaking over. Like, the flip of so many people, you know, being at home.

Well. Cause you're gonna be labeled a diva. And there's a story, and I might not be getting it right, so don't quote me on this when you do a fact check, but I think it was Tina Turner who was villainized in the media and labeled a diva, because. And I'm sure you've heard those rules where there'll be celebrities who wear sunglasses and then ask people not to talk to them. And I get it. I totally get it. And even just as a mom, like, if you're listening and you're a mom, mom, don't tell me that you haven't had days where you're like, if one more person asks me a question or asks me to get something for them, or even just talks to me or looks at me, I might lose my shit. And it's the same, I think, with people. For women who have these powerful positions, whether you're a Tina Turner or whether you're, you know, you, Lori. Harder. You only have so much bandwidth. You're a human being. And if you're on all day, whether you're speaking up on stage at your. Your events or you're doing podcast interviews, that takes a tremendous amount of mental and emot Emotional energy. And I can relate. There are days where I'm like, I just need to put the sunglasses on. I don't want to talk to anybody. Can we just order in food?

We literally need to have. We need to create just like really massive sunglasses that just have a little message on them, just like, I love you.

But no, I want mine to have one lens that says conceited and the other one says aggressive and be quiet.

Talk to me.

Yes.

I just.

Thank you for just sharing that as well. And it's just. It's really empowering just to even think about. It's okay. And it is just something in my head that has to be repeated, like, this is okay.

I don't know.

What do I say after that, though? In my head, this is okay. It's okay if they don't like me and they're your family?

Well, I mean, it depends. Are you talking about specifically your family? Yes. I am not opposed to giving people a heads up and telling them. Yeah. I just had a conversation with one of my colleagues and we had it on my podcast about how differently we email, like, as women versus men and how many exclamation marks we put in there. And it's fine if that's how you naturally speak to someone, but are you doing it because you're wanting to seem a certain way? You know, being extra nice? Lots of salutations. I started noticing it because my husband corresponds with the teachers and he copies me on everything. And I. I'm like, he's so short and, like, to the point. It's so interesting to me. Like, I want to be more like that, but I. I gave my. My team a heads up and I'm like, hey, I'm going to start doing less thank yous. Like, I don't need two thank yous in every single email. Like, you guys know I'm grateful for you, right? Like, I'll buy you presents and, like, just give them a heads up. Hey, there's gonna be some changes around here. And it doesn't mean I love you any less. Does not mean I am mad at you. You. If I'm mad at you, I will tell you, I assure you. But you might feel that I'm a little bit blah, blah, blah. And it's because I am trying to change my behavior. And here's what it looks like. I like to just say what's there.

Yep. I love that. I think with all of the travel and us staying at different homes and all of the different things that have come up the last year. It's like you still keep office hours even when you're staying with people. So I think that would be such a powerful thing to just be like, hey, just gotta tell you, when I walk around the house with my blinders on, or whatever that looks like. That's so good. Thank you so much for that. Okay, so where can we get your book? Where can we, like, I know that you're still coaching people. You have so many awesome things going on. So where can we get your book? Who is it? Who do you think it's for? All the things?

I think the ideal reader for this book is any woman between. I mean, honestly, like, even around 18, she would love it all the way until 118. But just women who love personal development and living their best life and also who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty. Like, I don't mince words and I don't pull any punches. And there's also, like I said, I really want people to actually do the work instead of just listening to it on audiobook, like in the background or think like, that sounds nice. I mean, hey, if that's where you're at, by all means, like, do that. But for those people who really want to take action, there's a free workbook and it's 40 plus pages and it's really beautiful. It matches the book because that matters. And all of that stuff is@AndreaOwen.com noise and we're giving a book away. Did I jump the gun?

No, you can totally tell them. You guys go check out Instagram and see if our post is up. I'm sure it's up by this time. Otherwise, keep your eye out because we're gonna be telling you you can get a free book. Andrea, go ahead.

We're going to send one of your listeners a book and I can't wait.

Amazing.

I'm so grateful for you.

I always learn. I always love our conversation. I literally was just in the vortex with you. So thank you so much for this awesome hour, you guys. One of the biggest gifts that you can give Andrea is to tag her on Instagram when you upload this and let her know what you're doing. Biggest takeaway was from her so that she can actually know the impact that she made on you. So Andrea, what is the Instagram that you would like them to tag?

My Instagram handle changed a few months ago and I met HeyAndrea Owen. Now I'm also on TikTok.

So at HeyAndrea Owen, you can tag her and let her know what your biggest takeaway was from this podcast, and it's always fun to be able to see who actually listened to us with this conversation.

And I'm answering people on yes.

Amazing. Okay, so until next time, everyone, earn your happy. Bye. Bye.