781. Online Marketing Made Easy with Amy Porterfield

Hello beautiful listeners. Before we get started, I have to give a big thanks to Gusto for supporting Earn your Happy. If you run a small business, you have to try Gusto payroll deposit paychecks, file payroll taxes automatically and more. Get 3 months free@gusto.com Lori.

I don't ask them like I'm thinking about creating this product. Would you buy? No, it's nothing like that. It's more like, what have you tried in the past with this challenge you're having and what do feel like when you're struggling with it? And what's worked for you, what hasn't worked for you? Like, I want to know all the things that are going on in their head.

Welcome to the Earn your Happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of Light Pink, best selling author, three time fitness world champion, and I'm a crazy, multi passionate entrepreneur. My journey has taken me everywhere from being a broke waitress, barista, retails associate and personal trainer with massive anxiety and no belief in myself, to later becoming a multimillionaire in love with my life. In 2007, my husband and I lost everything. We found ourselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at rock bottom. We had no ideas and I had no education to fall back on. This is when I found personal development and learned everything I could about business. Not by choice, but because I realized no one was coming to save me. The conversations on this podcast are going to know that you're not alone and.

That we all feel like we don't.

Know what we're doing.

We're going to give you the tools to help you face your fears, take action, start your business, and grow those massive dreams that are keeping you up at night. It's time to create a life that you can't hide from and put so much on the line that your higher self is forced to come out. You're going to stop waiting for someone to approve of you, and you're going to anoint yourself. Because I'm obsessed about building businesses that give women a platform, I want to feature you. So if you text the word podcast to 310-496-8363, you can get your questions answered on our Q and A segment along with a shout out. And if you rate, review and subscribe to this podcast, we're choosing someone every month to get coached and featured on our show. It just might be you. So let's get started.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. My next guest is one of my favorite podcasters and online marketers. Amy Porterfield is on the show today. I'm so excited. Anytime I get to talk to her is a good day. She's an online marketing expert and the host of the top ranked podcast, Online Marketing Made Easy. And I know we can all use that in our lives. Before building a multi million dollar digital course business, Amy worked with peak performance coach Tony Robbins, where she oversaw the content team and collaborated on groundbreaking online marketing campaigns. Through her best selling courses and popular podcasts, Amy's action by action approach proves that even the newest online entrepreneurs can bypass the overwhelm and instead generate exciting momentum as they build a business they love. You are going to love this show no matter where you're at in your business and even if you don't have one. Maybe you're thinking of a side hustle. Maybe this is something that's going to help you excel in your career and create ideas for where you're at right now. So let's get started.

Amy, I am so excited to have you back on the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. I appreciate it.

So I just have to say, for anybody who doesn't know who you are, you guys, first of all, you need to come out from under the rock because literally your life is about to change. Not just from this podcast, but I hope that you go find, follow and do all the things. Because if you are thinking of having a business or if you have a business and you want to scale, Amy, you have truly, like, you are such a teacher of so many different things. So you guys absolutely have to go listen to her podcast, go follow and do all the things which will link up. And I have to tell you, Amy, that I have never met someone that has ever said anything but completely like incredible things about you.

That is the nicest compliment I have ever received. So thank you for that.

You're just such a generous, a generous person and teacher and I just feel like that is exactly why so many things, just so many things go well and you just keep continuing to grow and I see you in such great places and I love it. I'm celebrating, like I'm so celebrating you. And I really think that is because you are that person that just adds so much value. And I just want to point that out because truly that's the key is just you constantly give value without questioning and without thinking that you're going to get it in return. So, so grateful to be on this right now and I would love you to just for people who don't know who you are. And you guys can always go back and listen to the last episode. I'll also link that in the show notes. But would you give us just a teeny little synopsis of how you got into what you're doing now and what that is?

Yes. So what I do is I help entrepreneurs take their knowledge, know how and skillset and turn that into a profitable digital course. And along the way of creating a profitable digital course, building a sustainable email list that is fully engaged and full of people that are excited to buy from you. And so that's what I do every single day in my business. But before that, I work with peak performance coach Tony Robbins, where for seven years I got to travel the world and work on content that Tony does on stage. Like Unleash the Power within and Date with Destiny and behind the scenes with some of the digital courses, which is where I fell in love with entrepreneurship and creating digital courses. I used to be a corporate girl, thought I'd be a corporate girl for life, but then got that entrepreneurial bug. Like I wanted to be my own boss, do my own thing, make as much money as I be on my wildest dreams and make an impact. And that's how I got to where I am today, 12 years later.

So before we jump into because I really you guys, today we're going to talk so much about email marketing and your email list and why that's so important. But before we do that, I'd love to know just what is exciting for you right now, what feels fun and then what is a challenge for you right now. Like real time challenge. Ooh.

Okay, so what feels fun? Well, we at the time of this recording, we have a launch coming up in a few weeks and we have made a vow because live launching, anyone who's launched anything online knows that is stressful. It is a lot of work. It's months and months in the making. So we have vowed that we are having fun no matter what. No matter if we meet our goals or if we don't meet our goals, no matter if the tech goes down or if it is perfect, whatever happens, my team of 20 full time employees, we are having fun. And so that feels good. That feels different than how we typically go into a launch. Head down, super serious. Let's make it happen. So I'm excited that the business has turned that way. And one other thing about what feels fun is that my business just recently went to a four day work week and that's a big deal for us because I definitely for many, many years Worked with way too many hours. And that's just kind of my nature. I'm just like, go, go, go. But I realized that, myself included, the whole team, I just saw burnout happening. And I knew by the time we hit Thursday, Friday, people were just dragging. And so I started to read this book called Shorter. And I learned this concept of working less hours but doing the same type of work, like not throwing a bunch of projects out to make it happen. And so the team moved about four months ago to a four day work week. We work Monday through Thursday, take off Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And revenue has never been stronger. The team has never been happier. They feel as though this environment is literally like life changing, business wise and personal wise. And I absolutely love it. I hope we never ever go back. So that feels fun as well.

Wait, I literally, literally, like, that is. Okay. That's going to be a conversation in my world after this. It's funny because I've been talking to a lot of people who, just because I'm doing so many different calls with this new company that I'm building, I'm talking to so many people who take summer Fridays. And I was like, what is that? And they take Fridays off all summer long. So I. Yeah.

So I think I'm getting we started there. I love that you said that. About two years ago, we started to take summer Fridays off and it was. Was like so good. I thought, how could we ever make this happen like on a regular basis? And I have to tell you, I was terrified and I almost didn't do it. About a month before we did a 90 day experiment, I turned to my right hand in my business and I said, maybe this is a really bad idea. We have revenue goals, we've got students to take care of, we have communities. What are we gonna do with them on Friday? What are we gonna do if this goes down or that goes down? But we did like a month of troubleshooting and anything that came up, we said, here's what we'll do. And we'll have to make. We go if something comes up that we haven't planned for. So just so you know, I was like, that would never work for our business. Years ago, I would have never in my wildest dreams.

All right, that's super. Like, my body just said, yes, yes, yes.

Really?

I mean, and we do that, right? We. We will expand the work into the allotted time that it's given or we will shrink it. So there you go.

That's cool.

Okay. That was just already life changing. We could end it right there. Okay. Okay. So before we get started as well, I've been asking question because so much of this, you know, we can talk marketing and email marketing all day long, but we find that the biggest things that stop people are obviously just your mindset and the different beliefs. So I'd love to know what are three beliefs that you had to break or let go of that were instilled in you, whether it was growing up or, you know, through your parents or through whomever growing up that you had to break? What were those beliefs in order to become the woman that you are now, who has the business that you have now?

Ooh. Okay. So the first one that pops up is one that I actually hate to admit, but it is this idea that if something good happens to me, then something bad is going to happen as well. And it's like a deep, it's deep inside me as a child and I don't even know why it's there. I tried to go back into like what's happened in my childhood that would come up. I don't know what it is, but every time, like if I do really good in a launch, I'm afraid something bad is going to happen on the back end. And here's where it's really scary. I think it's rooted in sometimes I think I don't deserve the success I have or the money that I make or whatever it might be. So I have done a lot of soul searching around that one and I can promise you that it has been something I've worked on and is definitely not as prevalent as it used to be, but it was almost debilitating in the beginning. So that's one limiting belief. Something good happens, something bad has to happen, which is not true. Another one is that I have to work really, really hard to have success. And this one is around that four day work week and proof that I'm moving away from that. I grew up with a blue collar dad. He was a firefighter and he had another job when he wasn't at the fire station and he had rules, like if you are on time, you're late, like really rigid. Or if you.

Hard work.

The definition of hard work is when you're doing work you don't enjoy doing. Like this is how his brain worked. And so I got all these lessons and then got into entrepreneurship and thought, wait a second, this is not fun. And so the limiting belief that you got to hustle your buns off your whole life to make good money or be successful, totally not true. And Something I'm unlearning along the way. So those are two. And then I think the third one would be that I, as the owner of the company, as the entrepreneur, as the leader, I need to have my hands in everything or know how everything works. This one was a big one for me. Moving to a team of over 20 people over the last two years is when we actually got to be that big of a company. I literally couldn't tell you some of the software we use or what a funnel might look like in all of its details. Where a couple of years ago I could tell you everything. Now, it's not that I'm not involved. I'm just involved at a different level. More strategic, more high level, more networking, more relationships, relationship building. And I trust my team to figure out a lot of the other things. That feels scary. But the limiting belief is I need to know everything all the time. I don't believe that. So.

Oh my gosh. I mean, I have had all of those for sure. And they, the thing about them, you know, they're the things that you just, I think you kind of touched on that. But they are the things that can they shift a little bit. Sometimes they put on nicer outfits, but they definitely can still, you know, come up like with different, new, new things that you're doing. So I'm sure that you have those still come up a bit. Oh, yeah, okay.

Yes, for sure.

Definitely. Well, I'm so glad that you shared those because those are huge and I'm sure everybody listening shares a lot of those.

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Free so let's get into email and this has been something that you know throughout all of the businesses that Chris and I have done something that I'm working on now. This is definitely top priority for me as well. Moving, even moving from courses, from books, events and now I'm moving into an actual physical product. This still serves true for me of the importance of an email list, if not even more so for Me especially with how different things have shifted with ads. So online ads. So, Amy, can you tell us first, you know, what was your experience like, why is email so important? And what was your experience first building an email list?

Ooh, yes. Okay. So the reason email is so incredibly important is that the alternative for most people is social media. And what I always tell my students is you cannot build your business on rented land, and social media is very much rented land. Mark Zuckerberg changes the rules, and boom, your business model will change if you put all your eggs in one basket. And so we can't rely on algorithms that we can't control, but you can control your email list. And I want to give you an example of just how powerful email marketing can be. And then I'll tell you what it looked like when I was first getting started. So just recently, I launched a new program, and it's all about systems and how to get your business organized and your processes and check and all of that. But I didn't have time for a big, big launch. So what we did is we. We decided to send out two emails. And really, two emails is all it took to create an extra $100,000 of revenue in my business. So here's what it looked like. I created this product. It was the first offer I've done in a while. But again, I didn't have time for that big launch. So instead, I sent out these two emails, and I posted about it on social, and I spent a total of $5,000 in AD. So here's what I did. The first week, I didn't send any emails. I just did social, and I did $5,000 in ads. The second week is when I sent those two emails out. The second week, revenue grew by 50% from the first week because I sent out those two emails. And the reason I share this example is that email is an asset that, when done right, can generate revenue for you whenever you need it. So let's say you needed some money for your business. You put together an offer, you send out an email, you're more likely to convert four times more likely than if you just posted about it on social. So if you. You're looking for more confidence in your business, if you're looking for more consistency, or just like you want to know that this business is going to work, you need an email list. Years ago. So my dad, who is a firefighter, my dad does not know anything about online marketing. Like, if you asked him what I did, I'm almost scared as to what he would tell you. Because he doesn't know this world at all. But he got really nervous that I started my own business. And he'd call me once a week on Sunday and he'd say, how are you? Are you okay? Do you have enough money? And I said, dad, the business is good. We're good. And he couldn't understand it. So I explained to him, dad, as long as my email list grows, I will always be able to generate money in this business. So now when he calls on Sundays, he'll say, is your email list growing like it is, dad, he doesn't even know what that really looks like. I'm like, it is. And he's good. He doesn't worry about his daughter. So it's just so incredibly important to have that stability in your business. But I didn't know this in the very beginning. So in the first two years of my business, I did everything but grow my email list. I said yes to clients I didn't want to take. I said yes to opportunities of networking and getting to speak on stage and getting involved in different other people's businesses in order to make money. And I did not focus on any email list. And then I launched my first digital course and it was a huge fat failure. I made $267. The course was 297. But by the time you back out, the money I made and the expenses, yeah, I didn't make that much. But I didn't have an email list. I didn't nurture it. And that's when I realized, ooh, that hurt. That really hurt. And I never want to be in that position again. So that's when I started to take it more seriously.

Oh my. I am like, I am right there with you on building on social. And then a lot of times some people might be experiencing some success while building on social. And something that ends up happening is we kind of call that the low hanging fruit. And that well can go dry, it can slow down, you can definitely exhaust your social media. So that's something that feels so important with your email list. Before we get into how much is too much and what that looks like, like ways to build your list and when we're talking about email, can this also, like, coincide with if you're going to do like a text list through community or something like that?

Oh, that's a great question. So, yeah, let's talk about ways to grow your list. But in addition to that, because I'm a huge fan of using social, just not putting all your eggs in one basket and I love text messaging. I think it's on the rise. I think we're going to see it more and more over the next few years. And I think it's something that we do in addition to having our email list. Because the truth is, and this is like Marketing 101, something that we see over and over again, is that people do need to see your marketing message more than once. And so if we're just emailing or we're just doing social or just texting, there's a huge chance you're missing the eyeballs of so many people in your audience. So covering all your bases in all these different ways is important. Now, if at the end of the day you said, Amy, if you had to choose one, what would you choose? I would choose email marketing every single day over the others. But I think the others are very valuable and can be included in the mix. But ways to grow an email list. Now the simplest way to grow an email list is to create some kind of lead magnet. But I'm going to go beyond that. But let's start there. So a lead magnet would be a cheat sheet, a checklist, some kind of guide, some kind of PDF, that's like the easiest way. And you talk about it on social, you do live videos and you mention that that people should go there to sign up. Maybe if you're interviewed on someone's podcast and they let you mention it, you mention it there. So you're getting it out there anywhere and everywhere. It also could be a 10 minute audio you do or a 10 minute video that you put together. It doesn't have to be a PDF, but everyone should have a lead magnet or a few of them that they're using on their website and on social and anywhere else that it matters. That I think is just a necessary thing. I don't think it's enough to say sign up for our newsletter. I think that is something that it's dying. Years ago it was enough. Now people are too savvy. They don't want another email if they don't know what's in it for them. So the sign up for our newsletter to get updates and discounts, not necessarily going to work except when you do have a physical product. Getting people to sign up for a 10% coupon code, very smart. I'm sure that you've seen that a lot too. Right? Right. Yeah. So I think a discount code for a physical product I am a fan of. But other than that, I think that it should be some really cool PDF and I guess I'm talking more in the info marketing world, this is what works best. But I also love the idea of what I call a list building blitz, where you choose, let's say two times a year to go all in with list building. You actually treat it almost like a little mini launch, but you're not generating revenue, you're generating leads. So what that might look like because if you plan ahead, you actually turn it into something really substantial. It might be a five day challenge that you do or maybe you put together a special quiz and for a full week you go full out on promoting it to get as many people into the quiz and you make a big deal about it. You do live video and you talk about it a lot. So quizzes and challenges are really cool ways to do that. List building blitz. But I love the idea of a concentrated like a week in quarter one and a week in quarter three. All you do is a list building blitz. It makes a huge difference.

Oh, I love that you said that. That's actually exactly what we're doing with building this product because it, it does. Otherwise we really, you see kind of this slower trickle, you're not talking about it as much. It's like so much energy and focus on the one thing that people can't help but be like, oh, what is this? Or oh, you want to be a part of it? Or also just they actually see it. When you talk about it all the time, I can't tell you how many people even right now, like don't know, have a product yet. And I'm like, that clearly means I need to talk about it way more. So for people who feel like they're talking about their product, like you could probably talk about your course or your product a lot more. Okay, I love that. So when we are kind of designing this blitz or this PDF or this opt in, whatever we're going to be doing, are we thinking of the future product and what happens if we don't have the future product that we want to sell yet? Does it need to be like a super specific fit for our people? Can you talk about that?

I love this question. So the answer is, if you do not yet know exactly what your offer is going to be, exactly what you want to sell, whether it be a physical product or a membership or a digital course, or one on one coaching or whatever it might be, you're not really sure what it's going to be yet, then where you want to focus is getting really clear on who you serve. So getting clear on who your ideal community is who are, who are those people that you are going to serve and either help them with a challenge that you know you can help them with or meet a desire that they have have. So if you get clear on who you serve and the challenges they're having and how you can help them, that's the content you're creating, that's the lead magnet that you create. You can keep it fairly general in the beginning just to make sure you cast a wide enough net. Because here's the thing, when you cast a wide enough net and you start creating content regularly like a podcast or like your lead magnet, your audience starts to tell you what they want more of. And they also start to tell you through likes or lack of, or lack of dms, what they're not really interested in. And that's going to help shape whatever it is that you eventually want to create. And so don't be afraid to say, okay, I don't know what I'm going to sell yet, but I'm just going to start growing this audience, creating consistent content for them. And I'm talking like original content on the weekly and emailing them regularly. So let's say you create your lead magnet and you've got 10 people on your email list. I want those 10 people to be the most important people in your life right now and treat them as though they are 10,000 people and love up on them because the numbers start to slowly and steadily grow. And so you're emailing them like once a week, you're getting out in front of them, you're making sure that they're taken care of, they hear from you regularly because when you're ready to sell, they will be ready to buy. If you nurture. Nurture is an important word for email marketing. Now if you then decide what you want to sell, one of my most favorite things to do is to do an offer offer focused lead magnet, meaning let's say you decide you know what. I'm going to create journals. I think I've got this great idea for a journal. I'm going to get them created. I'm going to sell some journals. So then what you might want to do is put together some kind of freebie. Maybe it's like 10 journal prompts that are sure to get you into the ritual of journaling daily. And so you put together these 10 journal prompts in an easy PDF and that will then lead to eventually you marketing the journal when you're ready. I love, love an offer focused lead magnet, but not everyone starts there and that's okay as well.

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Let's take a mini break because I have to tell you about Gusto. If you're a small business owner like me, you more than likely have your hand in pretty much every aspect of your business. But how hands hands on do you really need to be with some things? Filing, taxes, running payroll and employee benefits are not exactly the areas where I want to be spending my time and maybe where you shouldn't be spending your time. I've also found just the solution to keep these tasks super simple. Taking up minimal time. Gusto is a one stop shop and online solution to manage payroll, benefits and HR. I've teamed up with Gusto and they're offering you three months free when you run your your first payroll@gusto.com Lori both Kris and I have so much going on right now with our multiple businesses and there are a lot of moving parts when it comes to hr. While we roll our eyes when we have to do some of the administrative tasks that we don't actually completely understand, we have to remember they're so important to the well being of our team and they need attention. Gus Gusto keeps payroll, benefits, HR and management tools all in one place so you can stay on top of it without juggling numerous subscriptions and logins. On average, it takes just 11 minutes to run your payroll with Gusto and you can sign up, store and organize W2S 1099s and other employee documentation, all online. Gusto also automatically files and pays state, local, and federal payroll taxes, which instantly saves you from having to navigate government websites that are never user friendly. Gusto was built for small businesses from the start. To help streamline your business operations, we're giving you three months free when you run your first payroll at gusto.com forward slash. Lori, go ahead and give it a try@gusto.com Lori. Now, let's get back into the episode.

Okay, so with. It's kind of like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? If you were to tell somebody, you know, and they don't have, they don't have their digital course yet or they don't have their product, would you build the list and then survey the list for what they want? Or would you say, you know, if you have this course that you know you want to do, build that, what would you say?

Ooh, that's a really great question. I think probably the most powerful way to do it is build your list and like you said, survey them, ask lots of questions. And this doesn't have to be like a full on Google survey or survey monkey or anything like that. We do this fun thing where we do polls online on Instagram. So we take a poll, do you want to learn more about this or that? And we let people kind of decide for us. Or we'll constantly get in the DMs, ask questions, get in the DMs and talk to people. People. So that's a way of surveying as well. It's really scrappy and a simple way to do it, but holy cow, the things that I learn, it's incredible. So I love the idea of starting to grow your email list and ask questions, really get clear on who they are, and then from there shaping an offer around that.

I freaking love polls, you guys. Amy, I have to tell you, like, I. So I had paid for like Nielsen data for this product that I'm doing, and it's so funny because before that I was doing all of these polls and surveys on Instagram and I ended up paying for it because I was just kind of convinced by a bunch of people that it was the most important thing to do. And I got it back and I'm like, this is the exact same data that I got. Oh, my God. So I was like, this is so funny that we have all of it.

Is the best tool.

I literally think polls and surveys, you can, you know, if you're consistent with them and you know, the right questions to ask, which you will through time. I could not agree more. Like, it's, it seems so basic, but it's one of the most powerful things that you can do to get to know your audience. And then they also, that's like so much great interaction. You're training them to interact with you. So I love, love, love that. Okay, so let's talk about. Oh man. Digital. So with digital courses, because we're going to keep talking about email, but a lot of people right now are like, okay, I'm so overwhelmed with even the thought of like a digital course and how that even begins. And I know that this is something that you do. So you can either refer us somewhere.

Or give us a.

Of info on what that looks like to create a digital course. Now that you have some of this feedback that you are going to plug.

Into that, you know, that's such a fun thing to know that now that you're getting information from your audience, now you get to decide, like, how do you want to package your solution to their challenges? And I'm super biased because I teach people how to create courses. But the reason, it's not that I'm obsessed with digital courses, it's that I'm obsessed with, with more of a freedom lifestyle, whether it be freedom to get more time or more money or more impact or more creativity or work when you want, where you want, where you want to work from. And I do believe that digital courses can do that. Especially if you, let's say, create one digital course and you launch it over and over again a few times a year. When you're not launching, I want you to take some time to rest and recharge and kind of recalibrate where you want to go deep into the business. And so that's where I see the freedom when you choose, when you promote your programs and when you don't. But the thing with digital courses, one of the best places to start is, well, there's two places and they kind of go hand in hand and they work so perfectly with surveying. The first thing is to figure out your, your 10% edge and your 10% edge. And I learned this from Jill and Josh Satin years ago, and I use it with my students every day. It's that where do you know how to get results in an area of your life, both personal or professional? And you can teach other people how you got those results or where have you gotten results for clients or customers? And you can teach how you got those results. So look for your 10% edge. And here's a little secret. We all have one. We probably all have three or four different 10% edges in our life. And so that's where you start. Because if you create a digital course, you always have to create from a place of I got results and now I'm going to teach you how to get those. But here's the beauty of 10% edge. You're 10% ahead of those that you're going to serve. That doesn't mean you're 20 years of more education than they are a PhD or some kind of certification. It's just 10% ahead of where they are. So you can guide them and lead them to where they want to go. So that should take a lot of pressure off thinking you have to be the expert of all experts. Now, on the flip side of that, knowing where your audience has challenges, what do they want? And really starting to think, like, if you have an idea for a digital course, what are the results that you want to get people? And from there, ask yourself, is my audience struggling with a challenge where these results would be valuable? So you want to make sure, sure there's alignment between what your audience wants and what you want to teach. And that's really where you start with digital courses.

So good. So I, I know that you had mentioned earlier in the podcast that you had launched, you know, you had done a launch that did not. Well, in your eyes, in what you were thinking. And you know, I think that this has happened to all of us who have launched something for sure. And it's probably not the thing that we lead with, like, hey, I've launched an.

It sucks.

So let's talk about that feedback loop where a lot of people then think maybe the course sucked and they totally start over. They do something different without getting even more feedback. What would you say, what would you do, and what do you suggest when something flops? Give me the first tips.

Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So when something flops and we've all been there probably more than than once, the first question I have my students ask is, is my messaging off track in any area? And what I mean by that is the way I talk about my product, the way I talk about my solution for them, the way I talk about the problem that I am solving. Am I off in any way? And the only way you know if you're off in any way is one, to be vulnerable and be okay with the that fact fact that maybe you are. And number two is to start asking questions and really getting in there. Like I do course calls where they're not the most fun thing in the beginning. You get more comfortable. But I get on the phone with people that would be my potential customer and I ask them a bunch of questions. I don't ask them like, I'm thinking about creating this product. Would you buy? No, it's nothing like that. It's more like, what have you tried in the past with this challenge you're having and what do you feel like when you're struggling with it? And what's worked for you, what hasn't worked for you to know all the things that are going on in their head. And my student just recently did this and here's like a perfect example. She launched a course where she was helping women, busy women, overachievers, don't have enough time. She was helping them in, what's the word I'm looking for, Implement self care into their lives. So she was giving them all these suggestions for self care, how to make time for it, what, what it looks like, giving them suggestions. And the product did not sell at all. And when she got on these course calls and started asking more questions, what she realized in terms of missing the message is the women she loved to serve these a type overachievers, they did not believe they deserved self care. So they didn't care. If you're going to give them 10 ways to self care and how to implement it, they weren't even there. They were struggling with, I don't think that I am important enough to take the time for self care. That's a whole different conversation. And so you never know this unless you get quiet and you start listening. When I was in second grade, my dad would drop me off at the school every single morning. When I'd get out of the car, he'd said, amy, it's better to listen than to talk. It's better to listen than to talk. And although I think talking's important for many of us women, if all of us get a little bit quiet and listen to our customers and potential customers, we can nail that marketing message.

I love that advice because honestly, that applies to everything. Relationship building, literally everything. I know so many people who get so stressed out at like, you know, networking events or going to large events or parties. And it's like, I think we get stressed because we always think we have to know everything. And it's like if we all just listen to our audience and just ask better questions, I feel like you could just be, I know there's that beautiful quote, being interested. Like the most interesting person is the most interested person. And it just takes so much pressure off. It takes so much. So love that.

True.

Okay, so let's get back to email. In saying, what's a good email technically, like marketing versus nurturing, what's the difference when people are like, okay, how do I write a really good marketing email? And what is a really good nurturing email?

Ooh, okay. So the thing that they both have in common is they both typically inspire. So a lot of times, and we can even go further, a really good email inspires and educates at the same time. And typically the best way to inspire and educate is through stories. Whether they be stories of your own experiences or those of people that you've served in your business, stories beat out almost everything. And so whether you're nurturing or you are selling or marketing, I do believe that that is like the number one best way to write an email. Tell a story. But in addition to that, the nurturing side of it, the most important side of nurturing an email list is showing up consistently in the email list. Now, whether you write a short email or a long email or. I was just talking to a student yesterday and she was writing an email and she said, amy, I hate writing emails. It's just hard for me. It takes forever. It's not something that comes natural. And I know some people are listening like, yes, yes, that's me. Me too. Well, what she started doing is she started putting just a little bit of text in the email and she would record a five minute video or sometimes three minutes. So her emails now are these really cool, just short little videos with a little text underneath them. And they do fantastic. She used to do it. Then she thought, oh, I should be writing these long emails. And I'm like, why do what works for you? And so emails come in all shapes and sizes, but two factors. Number one, one, are you doing it consistently? And I'm really talking about at least once a week. Like, in my business, our podcast comes out every Thursday. So every Thursday, rain or shine, if you're on my email list, you're getting an email from me and I'm telling you the episodes out. But I'm not just saying episodes go out, go listen to it. I'm typically telling a story or sharing a lesson I recently learned or some kind of interesting little thing that I think that you'd find interesting as well. Well, so that the consistency is everything. And then, of course, inviting people in. And now more than ever, the more you're willing to invite people into your life, the more they're Likely to keep opening those emails and staying around so that I know it's a buzzword. But authenticity vulnerability, it really does make a difference.

What about. Well first I want to ask just technical question. What about what is the best way to send video? Like if people are like, oh my God, I could just be sending videos, I could totally talk and a video. Okay, what would the best way be?

My favorite tool is Bombbomb. Have you heard of that tool?

I haven't.

Okay, so it's B O M B O M B and it makes it really easy to record a video and embed in an email. And the cool thing about Bombbomb is that when you open up the email you see like me talking. It's like kind of on a loop boomerang. So it's engaging. You're like, oh, she's in the video, she's telling me something. And then they click and then the video clicks, plays. But it's really interactive and it works like a charm. So I love bombbomb.

Okay, we're just going to go along that line of tech questions. So what do you suggest as email systems and then also who do you use and what do you think is best for hosting your digital courses?

Oh, okay, great. So I tell all my students my favorite email service provider is converting. So ConvertKit is fantastic because number one you can get started for free and number two, your business can grow with ConvertKit and they're more than an email service provider. You can do your opt in pages, landing pages, the pages that people give you their name and email for. You can set that all up through ConvertKit at no extra charge. So love ConvertKit and they have exceptional customer support and they care about diversity and those are two other things that I think are important. So convertkit it all the way. I use for my email service provider, infusionsoft and I do believe that most people getting started with an email list do not need something that robust. And so it's not something I suggest to my students. And then the other question you asked, what do I the tool I suggest for a course to house your course by far, I love Kajabi. Kajabi is fantastic. K A J A B I. It's an all in one software where it also does sales page templates and often page templates and webinar registration page templates. So it does a lot but it makes it really easy to upload your videos and your PDFs and your audio files for your course without needing a coder or a programmer.

Okay, so the question of all questions, if I have a lot of creatives listening who are majority creative and don't consider themselves techie whatsoever, and they're having, like, heart failure right now from overwhelm, is there a spot or a place where somebody or someone. This is like one of the main questions that we get asked all the time. Is there somebody who can do this all for me?

Okay, this is a great question and I love it. So the answer is yes. Like you can. There's always a way. But as someone who teaches this, I'm going to say let's not give it all away, because I don't think that's necessary as a creative. I have tons of creatives in my audience. I have a woman who created a product all about watercolor. I have quilters, I have singers, I have dancers. Lots of creatives in my audience. And online marketing is the last thing they either want to do or have even an interest in. So what I always tell them is, let's just make sure you have an overall understanding of what you want to do in the business and why it's important to you. Getting somebody to then do the tech side. Not even a problem. I don't think that I don't do any more of my tech at all. All. But in the beginning, at least I understood what I wanted the tech to do. Because here's the deal. If you don't do that, someone else is going. They have their own ideas, own agenda. They learn from other people. You don't know if you believe in that or not. So at least have a good understanding of what you want to do and what you want the results to be. And then at least stay, have a pulse. Don't fully take yourself out of it, but there are two tons of very capable people that will set up your digital course in Kajabi, that will put together your sales page on the back end that will set up a shopping cart. I have no problem with you giving that away as long as you know what you're exactly trying to do here.

Okay, so another question. Getting back to the actual, like, emailing good copy versus bad copy. I know that there's you guys. There's so many layers of different things. And then sometimes you can hear like, oh, you need a good copywriter, or oh my gosh, you should. You know, copywriting, writing is thousands and thousands of dollars. If you want good copy, maybe someone else should write your copy. What are some tips that you have for people around writing their actual emails and knowing what types of words actually Sell.

Okay, so this is so good. I recently did a podcast episode around my seven copywriting hacks.

Ooh, so good.

Yes.

Gotta listen to that.

One, this is a popular topic for many of my students as well. The first thing I'll say is I really do believe that all of us in the beginning should at least try to write our own cop. Like, if there's one area that you become good in, you don't have to be excellent, but really good is become a student of copy. And here's why. Only you will have the best pulse on your own voice. And if you're your own personal brand, like Lori and I are, then it's important that when you are putting yourself out there through copy, that it feels like you, that it sounds like you. So at least it should start with you. Now, I'm all about outsourcing to a copywriter. I do as well right now. But one, I didn't have the money to do it in the beginning. And two, I am so glad that for about three years I wrote my own copy. You don't have to go that long, but because at any time I know if I need to step in, I could write copy. And it's a really important tool as someone who's creating a business online. So there's tons of free resources, there's paid resources, but at least for a year, try to write your own copy so that you can get a flow and a really understanding of how you want to communicate. But here's a tip for you. The best copy uses the words that your audience is using actively right now. It's literally the phrases and the words they use. Here's an example. One, A gal on my team was writing something recently and my team doesn't always get it right, nor do I. And she wrote this, this term revenue ceiling, like it was something like, have you ever hit a revenue ceiling? And I turned, told her, I said, our audience never uses that. They don't use that phrase revenue ceiling. They might like, say, I want to bust through my revenue or boost my revenue, but they wouldn't use that phrase. And I know that because I've talked to so many of them. So back to those course calls where if you talk to potential students, customers, clients, or current clients, if you get on a conversation with them and record it, they will give you some of your mark marketing copy. They will use the words and the phrases that they literally use in everyday language. And the best compliment you can get from good copy is when someone says, oh my gosh, are you in my head right now. And you're thinking, well, yeah, I kind of am because I just took every word you just said and I made it into copy, which is totally cool. And another thing that my favorite compliment, my first favorite compliment with good copy is, oh, my gosh, I feel like you're in my head. The second, second one is, Amy, when I read that email, I thought you were just writing to me. And although I kind of always feel bad, like, ooh, I feel bad that you thought it was to you and it was my whole list. But if I look at the silver lining there, it was personal. They felt like they were really seen and heard. So the best copy is when you're talking to one specific person in that I never say you all, or I never. When I write copy, I'm always saying you. I'm talking to one person. That is a very important, I think, copy tip.

Oh, I love that. I totally, I totally have felt like you have talked to me. It's so good. But that's, you know, what people forget is when they feel so seen like that, like, they're going to be able to do that with their product and it's going to be an answer that people were praying for. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten emails from, you know, Gabby Bernstein, from you, from Marie Forleo, that I'm like, I need this so bad right now. And I'm so grateful that this copy spoke directly to me and exactly this time of need and what it is, and it was so clear on what it's going to be. So, you know, you can't just feel like, oh, my goodness, I'm just selling, or, you know, I'm learning these words to make sure they buy. It's like you are learning the words to make sure that you answer the prayer that they have that they need in that time. So it's so, so powerful. Okay. And something else fun, maybe some tips around. I know for me, trying to get those words right now, trying to learn.

Those words of the.

My audience. Just doing some things on, you know, maybe asking questions for me personally. And then I'd love to hear what you do to get your. Maybe a little bit more of your words outside of talking to them. I'll just put posts out on Instagram, like, what is something you don't like about, you know, when you're shopping for cocktails right now? Or what is something that you look for in a cocktail right now? And literally using all of their words and writing words that you know, are keywords over and over, over, so that you actually are just, like you said, using their exact words of how they explain their challenges and their desires. So what are some other tips that you can give around giving that exact language or getting it Okay, I love.

That you do that. Asking questions, so important. And I'll take that asking questions a little further. On social media, it's typically when you ask a question, try to ask it in the most simplest way so they could just type a quick response and it's not going to be overwhelming to them. So I think, like, the kind of question you ask is actually important. But inside of Facebook groups, and lots of us, a lot of us have access to groups or we have our own. I am currently writing my first book and I wanted to use examples from my students around a time where they bought themselves something special when they hit a milestone in their business. And so what I did is I went into the group and I said, okay, I want you to tell me all the details when I was a time that you bought yourself something special based on a milestone. Ready, go. And in a group, I think that there's more likely that they're going to kind of spend a little time crafting a paragraph for me, which many of them did, and it allowed me to really understand their story. But I didn't stop there then for the stories I really liked that I wanted to include in the book. And you could say stories that you like that you wanted to include in an email, say I went back and asked a clarifying question like, how did you feel when this happened, happened? Or what did this look like? So I actually dug a little bit deeper and when I did, then I got gold that I get to use in the book or in this case, an email for our example. So asking questions in different places makes a very big difference. I get much more richer conversations in a Facebook group than I will in a DM at Instagram. That's just my audience. So being aware of where you're asking those questions is important as well.

Oh, that's so good. Okay, so how about webinars for building your list? What do you think?

Oh, my gosh. It's literally the number one way how I started to grow my list. So I am a huge fan of webinars, and specifically the way I teach webinars and the way I use webinars is to sell a digital course. But you could use webinars to sell a physical product, a membership, one on one coaching. But typically I use it as a Sales video vehicle. But here's the beauty of a webinar. Typically, they're an hour long in the first, probably 45 minutes. You are teaching and adding value and inspiring and educating and all that good stuff. Well, the webinar creates so much value and trust in the person giving the webinar. When you are teaching really good stuff, meaning these people start to become really interested in hearing from you on an ongoing basis, even if they don't buy from you. So I believe growing your email list with a webinar is one of the most powerful ways to grow your email list, because people are signing up for a free training and if you hit the mark on the title of the webinar, something that really resonates with them, obviously that's going to increase your chances of getting lots of people to sign up. But I always say that one of the most important things about launching something online, like live launching, is that if you use a webinar, you're always growing your email. Email list. The reason I have such a powerful email list is I have done hundreds and hundreds of webinars that people have given me their name and email in exchange for that webinar. And because my webinars offer immense value, whether they buy or not, then I have trust with my audience as well. So I think webinars are the most powerful way to grow your email list.

Mm, I love that. I'm actually thinking of doing some webinars for my physical product as well. So I love you.

If you do, please tell me details like, I would love to share your story because I think more people need to know how webinars can work with a physical product, because I sing the praises of webinars with a digital course, but I do believe they work really well with physical products as well. So we've got to tell everyone how you do with those.

Yes, I'll keep you posted. I'm really excited. So. Okay. All right, let's hit on one last thing here. Let's talk about launch time, amount of emails. What do you think is a good of amount number of emails when it comes to the actual selling of your product when it's launch time?

Okay, so here's what I'll say. I don't know if there's a magic number, although I'll give you kind of a sense of what we do. But the lesson in this one, or the big tip, I guess it is, is that you should send more emails than you're comfortable with. And the reason I say that is most of us including me. We do not want to bother our audience, our subscribers. We do not want to be aggressive in their face. And so we hold back. And years ago, I used to email one email like I did multiple emails. And I'll break it down in a second, but on the final day, the day we call Cart close, I would send one email. And I have this good friend that Lori, you know him as well, Stu McLaren, he suggested that I do two or three emails on the final day. And I was like, stu, that is so many, like emails on the final day. And he said, believe me, it's not that everyone's opening up all three emails. You just want to make sure you catch them before the time runs out, if they're genuinely interested. And so I sent three emails out on Cart Close day and literally blew my mind. How many more sales came in that day? From all of my other past launches, I'd say at least a third more sales came in. And so I've never gone back. So I am a bit more aggressive with my emails during a launch and more than I'm comfortable with. But also I know what a difference it makes. And if I believe in my product and know that, oh my gosh, more people need to get this product to get the results thereafter, I will enthusiastically send those emails. So typically when I'm. I use webinars to sell my courses, so I'll send two to three webinar invites to my list. Usually the third webinar invite goes to anyone who didn't open the first two emails. And then once you get on my webinar signup list, then I'll send you two to three emails leading up to the live webinar just to make sure you're engaged, Giving you some tips to get ready for the webinar, sharing a few stories, just really engaging you and keeping you engaged while we're leading up to the live webinar, then the live webinar happens. The day the webinar happens, I'll send one in the morning and then a 15 minute reminder right before the webinar happens. And if you don't buy on the webinar, typically, let's say you've got five days from the webinar to the car close. You'll probably get a email every single day for five days and then those three emails on the final day. I know that sounds like a lot, but if you all just will, trust me, you send more emails, you will make more money. It really, there really is a correlation.

Oh my God, we will not Send less than 3. Because you are so right. I've seen the same exact thing and it's absolutely crazy. At first I was like, oh my God, I feel so bad now. Now I'm like, no, send it again. Because somebody is like just finally opening this up or I know what it takes for me to open emails sometimes, you know, And I know that I am, I am totally the person who's like, okay, I'm not going to buy right now because I know they're going to remind me with a bunch of emails before it runs out. I'm always so grateful because I'm like, oh, thank God. Thank God for the reminders. If I, you know, because a lot of if they still on your list, they probably want to buy from you.

Yes.

So great. Okay. Anything that you want to share in this last couple minutes here with email.

Marketing, I think the last thing I'll share is that I understand that everything else feels a little bit more exciting or sexier in our businesses as we're growing them versus email. I know that email takes time. It's like the turtle in the hare. Email really is the turtle where it's so slow and steady over time. But I can promise you that if you're feeling that your business isn't making as much money as it should, or if you're feeling like this feels hard or you can't get enough people to pay attention when you promote focus on your email list. My motto is you should always be list building. But in addition to that, this is like the important thing that I'd love to leave you all with. Email marketing is something that is part of your, your business. It's how you do business. It's the foundation of your business. Email marketing is just not one of another strategy like putting together a webinar and then moving on to something else, or putting together this offer and then switching to another offer. No, email marketing is a constant. And if you just come to terms with this is what I do in my business to keep it strong, it takes less of an effort or something that you have to do. It's just something that happens in your business. And I can promise you, if you set things up in the beginning to get the, the ball rolling, it's definitely easy. I grow my list every single day. And I definitely do not think of growing my list every single day. It's something that can happen more organically in your business when you get it set up properly. So that's all I'll say about that. I could get on that soapbox for a long time.

I couldn't agree more with you. Like, I'm so grateful for this call. I'm so grateful for this time. It's podcast, whatever we're doing here. Thank you so much for coming on and just sharing all of this. And you guys, if you for real, if you weren't listening to our podcast, you, you could build your entire business. And she does this all for free on her podcast as well. And Amy, I know that you also offer so many incredible ways to work with you. So can you share just where to, where to find you, where to follow you, and maybe some of the ways that you can help people?

Yes. Thank you so much for asking. So my podcast is called Online Marketing Made Easy with Amy Porterfield. And I share all, I do tons of list building strategies I on my podcast, as well as how to get started with the digital course. And then of course all the entrepreneurial mindset hacks that we need in order to keep going. So that's online marketing Made easy. And then the ways that I serve my audience beyond my free content on my podcast is I have digital courses. One on list building and one on how to create a digital course. And so these are open at different times and if you follow my podcast, you'll learn about when they're opened up. But that's exactly how I serve my audience.

So good. Well, you guys, one of the biggest things that we can do for Amy is to tag her on Instagram and let her know what your biggest takeaway was from this podcast. So Amy, what is your Instagram handle?

It's just Amy Porterfield.

Okay, amazing. So tag Amy, let her know what your biggest takeaway was. Go follow her, go download her podcast, subscribe, rate, review, do all the things. Because I'm telling you, she is about to be your coach online. All things online. So yes, Amy, thank you so much for coming on the show. So grateful for you always. And you guys, we will see you next time on the podcast. Bye, everyone.