818. 3 Common Marriage Mistakes & How To Overcome Them with Author & Relationship Expert Laura Doyle

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If you aren't expressing your desires and you just have that corresponding drop in vitality and happiness as a result, it's really tempting to say like he doesn't make me happy, but gosh, does he have a chance? Does he even know what you want? Foreign.

Welcome to the Earn your Happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of Light Pink, best selling author, three time fitness World champion, and I'm a crazy, multi passionate entrepreneur. My journey has taken me everywhere from being a broke waitress, barista, retails associate and personal trainer with massive anxiety and no belief in myself to later becoming a model multimillionaire in love with my life. In 2007, my husband and I lost everything. We found ourselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at rock bottom. We had no ideas and I had no education to fall back on. This is when I found personal development and learned everything I could about business. Not by choice, but because I realized no one was coming to save me. The conversations on this podcast are going to let you know that you're not al that we all feel like we don't know what we're doing. We're going to give you the tools to help you face your fears, take action, start your business, and grow those massive dreams that are keeping you up at night. It's time to create a life that you can't hide from and put so much on the line that your higher self is forced to come out, you're going to stop waiting for someone to approve of you and you're going to anoint yourself. Because I'm obsessed about building businesses that give women a platform, I want to feature you. So if you text the word podcast to 310-496-8363, you can get your questions answered on our Q and A segment along with a shout out. And if you rate, review and subscribe to this podcast, we're choosing someone every month to get coached and featured on our show. It just might be You. So let's get started.

Foreign.

Welcome back to the show. Today my interview is with the New York Times best selling author, Laura Doyle. She says she was the perfect wife until she actually got married. When she told her husband how to be tidier, more romantic and more ambitious, he avoided her. So she dragged him to marriage counseling.

And nearly divorced him.

In desperation, she asked happily married women for their secrets. And that's when she got her miracle. The man who had wooed her returned. Laura's books have been translated into 19 languages in 30 countries and accidentally started a worldwide movement. Her mission is to end world divorce. She's the founder of the International Relationship Coach Training School. Laura Doyle Connect, the star of Empowered Wives on Amazon prime, the creator of the Ridiculously Happy Wife program, the host of the Empowered Wife podcast, and she has appeared on the Today Show, Good Morning America, and the View. She's helped over 15,000 women fix their relationships, even the hopeless ones, without their husband's effort. But the thing that Laura is most proud of is her gratifying 31 year marriage with her hilarious husband John, who's been dressing himself since before she was born.

So, you guys, I'm so excited to.

Get into this podcast. I absolutely loved this conversation. We had a lot of good laughs about different things that we've done in the past, things that we've thought about our marriage, and just the most enjoyable, fun conversation about all of the challenges.

That we go through in relationships. So let's get started. Laura, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on. Thank you so much.

It's great to be here. Thanks for having me on, Lori.

You guys, sometimes I feel like I should hit record the second I get on with people. And you are one of those people. I just feel like I'm like, okay, we need to hit record because I feel clearly like we could talk about many things for many different reasons. But today you have some topics that I absolutely love. And I think that this topic that we had talked about three mistakes a lot of us make that maybe we don't know that we are making. We're gonna dive into those in just a second. But Laura, you have had this great career. You've talked about a lot of, really dove into and unpacked a lot of other great topics. You have an awesome book called the Empowered Six Surprising secrets to attract your husband's time, attention and affection. And I know that that also comes with a bit of a backstory. Do you mind sharing with us what does this book mean to you? Why did you write it? All of the things?

Well, it starts with a very embarrassing.

Story of how all great stories do, don't they?

Right? They are. It's true. So I was actually the perfect wife. And then I got married and it kind of went downhill from there. So I was so excited on my wedding day. Like, I thought, oh, he's so smart and so handsome and wonderful and musical. And then a few years in, I could not remember what I liked about this guy. We were having wall to wall hostility and cold wars where there was no talking for days. But I knew what I should do. I knew that I needed to take him to marriage counseling and that the counselor would fix him and then I would finally be happy because that's how it works. And I really did. I wanted a good marriage so badly. So we went to marriage counseling. We went for over a year. We spent $9,000 like over 20 years ago. And I remember I was on her couch. I was on her gray couch when I realized, this is not going to work. This is hopeless. I'm either going to get divorced or I'm going to spend the rest of my life in a loveless marriage because he was never going to change. So I decided I. I had to get divorced. There was this one problem, and that was I was too embarrassed to get divorced. I was just too proud. I didn't want everyone to know that. And we'd been putting on this good front, like, you know, like if there had been Facebook at the time, would have been like, here's our picture on the beach, you know, having the big fight in the car and then getting to the party, being like, oh, you know, everything's great. So. So I thought, as a last ditch effort, I'm going to ask women that have happy marriages what they did, what is their secret? I want to know what they're going to say. And I thought they were going to say, oh, you have to marry the right guy. And I thought I married the wrong guy. But they didn't say that. They said things that didn't even make sense to me. I'm like, what are you talking about? But I was desperate enough that I decided to just experiment in my own relationship. I thought, I'm going to, I'll try it and if it doesn't work, I'll throw it out if it's does and I'll keep it. And I was doing this for not even that long. And I remember I walked through the door one day and my husband's face lit up and he was happy to see me again. And that had been gone for a long time. So I thought, okay, something is working. I've got to keep doing this. And I became really hopeful that I was going to have the kind of marriage that I dreamed of having. But then it was not that long after that that we had another big blow up in the car, like on the way to Disneyland. Just huge blow up. And I thought, I was really hoping this wasn't going to happen again, but it did. So I got the idea that if I maybe had some other women that were doing this stuff with me, the new stuff wasn't that hard, but it was new. Maybe if I had some support and we were all doing it together, then I could start getting these new habits that I wanted to develop. And that worked. I got a little support group, just five of us in my living room. And they were all complaining about their marriages, too. And I'd be like, oh, try this, try that, or whatever. And they were reporting miracles. I remember one woman, her husband won the sales contest at work and took them on the most romantic getaway of their lives. Another one said, this isn't going to sound that big to you guys, but we've been arguing for months about my husband painting the family room. He got up and painted the family room with a smile. And I didn't even have to ask. So we really saw, like, okay, we're onto something. And someone said, hey, can you write down what we're doing for my cousin in Florida? She wants to know. And I'm like, sure, I'll do it. And that became my first book, which became a New York Times bestseller, was published in 30 countries, 19 languages, and just kind of started an accidental movement of women who practice the six intimacy skills. So we're having our 20th anniversary of empowering women to make themselves ridiculously happy wives. Oh, my gosh.

I mean, I feel like I just want you to tell everybody what all the secrets are.

I want to tell them, too. Yes.

So we are going to get into the three mistakes that a lot of us make. But at the same time, I would love to hear just a couple of the. Which I think that will probably intertwine those. It's so funny. We were just talking about this. I'm like, laura, I want to talk about both. What were some of the biggest. Maybe one of the things that you were like, you know what, if you just start observing this or even just start trying this, this could help.

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Well, I think it really does kind of tie in beautifully to the first mistake that I was making and that so many of my students have made too, now that I've had the honor working with tens of thousands of women to fix their marriages, make their marriages last, make them playful and passionate. And I think the first mistake that I think a lot of us make is that we are too helpful. And we think that's part of being a good wife. Like, oh, I have help him with his resume and buy him his underwear and maybe tell him how to eat healthier. And I was doing the same thing. I remember I was trying to get my husband to be more ambitious. I thought he should make more money. So I was giving him little hints about how he should do that and rewrite his resume and things like that. And that was like one of our lowest points. Like he wanted nothing to do with me. I was repelling him instead of. And I wanted to feel desired and adored and special and was just the opposite thing was happening. And I see this with so many of my clients where like one student in particular, Kathy Murray, she was the CFO of a private school, a large private school, so very accomplished, really successful at work. And she was using the stuff that she was doing at work, like at home with her husband. She was sort of managing her husband Doug, and he, like my husband wanted nothing to do with her. She'd see him like snuggling with the dog and be like, why can't I get that? You know? And she, it was her second marriage, they had a blended family and she started going to counseling by herself once a week to complain about Doug for an hour a week. And no one ever got happier that way by complaining about their spouse for an hour a week. Right. But she didn't know what else to do. And so she ended up getting a hold of my first book and having an insight like, oh my gosh, maybe there's some of this is on me. Maybe I have something to do with why my marriage isn't working. And she decided to use one of my little cheap phrases for nice. Stop being too helpful, right? To stop doing that and, like, leave some room, some space for your husband to take initiative and just be his own guy. So he came up to her and said, hey, I need you to tell me what you want me to do with the cell phone plan. And she used the phrase, the cheap phrase, and this is it. Whatever you think. And he looked at her funny, and he was like, what do you mean? You have to tell me what you want me to do. Because he had been trained that if he didn't do what she wanted, he was just going to hear her wrath later. And he didn't want that. And she just decided to stick with it. She said, no, whatever you think. And then she said, I trust you. And inside, she was worried he was going to mess it up and they'd get crummy service or overpay or whatever. But he didn't. He went away and did it himself. He did fine. And then he came to her, and they'd been sleeping in separate beds for six months, and he came to her that night and said, you were so nice today. And she just got tears in her eyes. They went. Slept in the same bed that very night. And the next day, she fired her counselor and started training with me. That was over 18 years ago, and she still gets tears in her eyes now when she talks about how wonderful her marriage is and what a disaster it would have been to throw away this great guy who's the love of her life because she didn't have the right training, the right skills to bring out his best and also to show up as her best self as part of the marriage. So good.

I mean, I'm already getting so much from this, even in my marriage. I consider we've come a very long way and we have a phenomenal marriage, but there's always, like, even just hearing those phrases, I'm like, oh, there's a couple places I could do that more, that's for sure. I know one place in particular. I'm not doing it. So that's super helpful.

You know, it's something. That's what we do on my campus in the programs and stuff is kind of just talk, just kind of review, like, what are the areas where you're tempted to control? That was one thing I did get from marriage counseling. I just remember being there, and she was like, I don't know if you realize you're a little controlling. It was like, the record goes like, wait a Minute we are here to fix them, you know. But it turns out I was very controlling. And what I didn't realize is that control is all based in fear.

Yeah, for sure.

If you're not afraid, you don't have to try to control it. And control and intimacy are opposites. So if I want the intimacy, I got to let go of this control. And if I want to be in control, well, the intimacy is going to go. It's like light and dark. So it's always interesting. I mean, I just get excited now when I realize, like, oh, I'm trying to control that. Wait, what am I afraid of? And is that realistic? And can I really control it? And do I really want to spend my energy trying to control and have it cost me the intimacy with my husband? Most of the time, no. Wish it was perfect 20 years later? You know, you'd like to say you are, but no, there's always.

Relationships are always those things that they just, you know, there's always room to grow. It's so crazy. I'm thinking about it right now. My husband, we got a motorhome, I think now. Yeah, I think last summer was the first time we did it. He's obsessed with it. I like it. And I also know how much joy it brings him. And it also allows us to go cross country with our dog, so we get to go home to our family for parts of the summer. He wants to stay for a very long time. I don't mind staying for a month at a time at all in a different season. I'm in a building my business season right now. So all he's talking about is this trip and it's making me feel so crazy. And he's like, just trust me. I'll make sure you have good wifi. I'll make sure the trip is good. I'll make sure you still can get everything done. And I am observing that. I want to make sure he knows how not comfortable this is going to be for me. And I also recently observed that it's starting to drive him crazy and wear on him. So I have to figure out how to allow and trust and figure out what that.

Oh my gosh, you're so self aware though, Lori. I love it because. Right. Another way to phrase that like that I look back at my younger self was just like, he doesn't realize how important it is to me that I have, you know, be able to build my business. And it's not that at all. You're just really. I call it being on your paper Right. Like we tell kids in school, keep your eyes on your own paper. Right. That means not looking at your husband's paper. What's going on over there? What's he doing? But just kind of staying on your own paper. And you're really good about that. Like, you're like, I'm realizing. I want him to. I want to make sure he knows. And what I hear is, you're afraid. Right? We all get afraid every day. That's part of being on this ride of life. And so. And the choice in that moment is always like, how am I going to handle that fear? Am I going to act on it? Am I going to try to control? Or am I going to choose my faith in that moment? Or. And it's also, you know, I always think of the Serenity prayer like, it's not just accepting the things you can't change, but it's having the courage to change the things that you can change, too. So there's this matter of using your influence wisely. And one of the things that you said that stands out to me as, like, a habit that I see from Happy Wives is sounds like you really expressed your desire in a way that he could hear. And he was inspired by. Because he was like, lori wants to build her business. Right. And he wants to make you happy. So he's like, lori wants to build her business, so I'm going to just knock myself out to get her strong WI fi on this trip. We're going to have this wonderful trip, and she's going to be able to build her business the whole time, and it won't slow her down at all. Right. It sounds like that's his thinking. So whenever I hear a husband who's all crazy inspired like that, I know that he knows his wife's desire. So you did a good job saying what that is. But it sounds like there's still some fear that he wants to, but he might not be able to deliver on it.

That's so powerful. I'm going to work through that one. Because my question is, where do I. Because if it really is a fear, if it really is a fear for people when they have these thoughts, like, well, if that's a real fear, part of it is that meeting them halfway and letting go, or is that truly, like, if it feels like a need to not be gone that long, where is that equal kind of discussion?

Yeah. So for me, I'm just really not into meeting halfway or compromising like, we did all that. It just didn't work. I mean, my Favorite example is some friends of ours where he wanted white cabinets and she wanted a black cabinets and they got gray cabinets.

No, nobody wanted the gray cabinet.

No one. So now no one's got it. No one wanted the gray cabinets, so nobody got anything they wanted. So there's actually this. A magical thing that I learned is still to this day just one of my favorite things that I realized. And it kind of. It goes back to expressing your desires in a way that inspires, which is. I have a formula for that now. But also an embarrassing story, Lori, about how I didn't know this when I was younger and my husband took me to Hawaii on this romantic getaway. And we were a pretty new couple. And I was so excited because I thought on the first day, we're going to go to the beach. And I cannot wait to go to the beach. I love, love the beach. But instead of saying what I wanted, I said, what do you want to do today? And he's like, how about if we go see a volcano? I'm like, oh, volcano? I don't want to do that. But I just thought, okay, I don't want to have conflict. This is my old thinking, so I'm just going to suck it up. I'll go see the volcano. Whatever. We'll go to the beach tomorrow. So we're driving in the rental car. You don't see a volcano for a long time. Just molten rocks on the side of the road, but stupid. So anyway, so. And I start to get upset. He's like, is something wrong? And I went, did you think this would be fun? Because I don't think it's fun. I think he's stupid. And I wanted to go to the beach. He didn't even ask me what I wanted to do.

Sounds accurate.

So he saw a volcano. All right. Forgot. All he knew is like, I took my. My wife. Yeah, yeah. Took my wife on a romantic getaway. So. And even after I behaved so badly, you know what he did? He took me to the beach. We never went and saw the volcano. We turned the car around, went to the beach, and I just felt I had the worst hangover from that. And it was so scary because I thought if I keep acting like this, he's going to leave me. And who could blame him, really? And I just feel so sad for that earlier version of me that had no idea how to express her desires. And if you can. Can't say what you desire, you're never going to get what you desire.

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So we have this formula for expressing your desires in a way that inspires him and it goes like this. It's I would love and then you just say the final outcome. So not who does it or how it gets done. It's just the thing that you're wanting. So I also used to do this with the kitchen. I'd say, this John, this kitchen is a disaster. And I thought he was going to jump up from the couch and start doing the dishes. And that never happened either. I think all he could hear probably was like, john, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I'm complaining, right? And I think I'm telling him what I want. So finally, I used the formula. I just said, I would love a clean kitchen, right? The final outcome, he goes, okay, I'll wash the dishes. And he did. And he's been doing them for 20 years now. Wow. Because he knows it makes me happy. I never do the dishes around here. He wants to be my hero. I can trigger his hero gene with that phrase. So I learned that I was like, that was super exciting to learn how to express my desires. And then there's this other piece that kind of applies to your situation, which is just trusting my husband's thinking. So that whatever you think thing is awfully powerful in combination with my desires. I think of desires as the seat of feminine power. And men just love to be in their thinking. And this is not to say things can't switch around. Of course they do. But I think of it just kind of like yin and Yang. In Eastern philosophy, the Yang would be like in every object, like in a cup, right? So I'm holding up my little Starbucks cup, and it's plastic. And that's the Yang part. The plastic part is Yang. And then the yin part is this part that can hold the water. And if you think about a cup that couldn't hold water, it doesn't have a purpose. There's no purpose for that. And so men love to have a purpose. And for women, we're built to receive. Our bodies are kind of a metaphor for the that. So as long as they know what we want, that becomes like their North Star to navigate by. And the more I can trust his thinking and say, like, whatever you think, and I would love. So I might say, well, I'll give you an example that came up with us was after the financial crash in, I guess was 2007, 2008 or whatever, we had just moved into our dreamy beach house that I loved. And then all of our income went down, our investments went down, everything went down. And my husband handles the money for us. And he said, I don't think we've made a good move. I think we need to sell and downsize I think this is scary. We're kind of on the edge. That was a huge trigger for me, because fear of financial insecurity is like my old friend. But I just stuck with what I wanted. I just said, I hear you, and if that's what you think we should do, I totally trust that. And I would love to stay in this house. I love this house. And we had that conversation. He was like, okay, I'm going to go away and think about it. We had that conversation, I think, four or five times. And every time, it was just, like, him saying what he thought and me saying what I wanted, him saying what he thought, me saying what I wanted. And they're, like, in two different realms. So there was no conflict, because he just wants me to be happy. And my desires color what he thinks. And what he thinks colors my desires, too. We had the same conversation about the car not too long ago. After that, I remember I said, I want to buy a new car. And he goes, I don't think it's a good time. You know, I'd like. I'd rather just save up some more money or whatever. And he. I was like, oh, okay. And he goes, well, why did you want the new car? And I'm like, well, the leather seat's cracking, and it's kind of biting my leg or whatever. And he goes, how. Seat covers. Can we get seat covers? I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, like, that'll totally. So his thinking, I didn't even want the new car after I realized, like, oh, I don't have to have. This is the only problem with this car for me, just. It's been tremendous to just really lean into those desires. And, Laurie, you're great at this from watching your TED Talk, I was really impressed by seeing how much you embrace those desires and honor them. And that's part of, I think, a lot of the success that you've had. And I bet your husband also finds that very attractive about you.

I could go back to the beginning of when I. I mean, I was just a total mess in the beginning of our marriage.

We still did.

Well, kind of for how young we were. But I can definitely say that everything that are saying, I have seen such a shift in. Even when I have gone after my desires, how much more desirable of a human being in all areas I was to be around. Instead of all of these different things, I used to just want to throw on him or blame on him or manipulate him or, oh, God, all of the things I didn't even I was so unhappy with myself that it all goes to your person sometimes. So I could go, we could sit for about a week talking all about that. And my question for you, based on everything that you just said, is when you trust and you say the phrase, I'm gonna have you say it again. Cause it's so good. But the I trust you and the.

Phrases and like, honestly write this down if you're listening, because it's just magic. It's whatever you think. And sometimes women will say, well, whatever you want. And that's not it. Because desire is the seed of feminine power, right? And what men crave most of all in their relationship is respect, which is that we think they're smart, that we think they're capable, we trust their thinking. So it's not about the desire. So whatever you think, I trust you. And so I think sometimes there's a freak out too. Like, oh my God, if I say that, I'm going to sound like I agree with things that I don't agree with. Like, I'm not going to. I don't want to just be a doormat.

Okay.

Yeah, it's totally not about that. It's things that are. I mean, for my husband, it was like, you know, I'm going to get dressed. Okay. Whatever you think, right? Like, I mean, if, you know, you could, like, even if, you know, in his business. I remember when he had his business, he sold it about a year ago. But you know, sometimes he'd be just talking about his work. And I always felt like it's my job to just kind of say what I see. Like that client doesn't deserve preferential treatment or whatever because they don't pay on time or whatever it is, right. And really, I mean, you know, I have an opinion. I care about it deeply, but it's not really what he wanted. What we all need is to be seen, heard and understood. And that's so big, right? Just to bear witness, just to say. And so this is another cheat phrase that I love to use. And that's I hear you. It doesn't mean I agree. It doesn't mean I disagree. It just means I'm listening. What you're saying is important to me. And he's my beloved and it's his voice and his ideas and his thoughts. And so I feel a lot of intimacy sometimes just from choosing to listen. Even though I have a lot of things, thoughts flying through my head that I think maybe I should contribute. So it's really just nice to be able to choose in that moment, right? Which one am I going to. Which one do I really want?

So that's ultimately so much of what I'm learning is it really is a choice of what you are. Like, that's not the right time for that. Or that's, you know, this is not going to get the outcome that you may think that you want. Like, it might really feel that way, but it's probably going to produce the opposite. And that only comes from experience of saying the wrong thing and then understanding how the. The thing that actually works. So back to the trust thing. So whatever you think, I trust you. Now, what happens in the beginning when you say whatever you think, I trust you and you feel that it went terribly wrong? How do you not say, I trusted you and now look at what happened. How do we not do that?

Because then it erases everything that might happen. But it's interesting because people tend to rise to your expectations of them. So there's something that happens. I think we get one impression of our husbands when we're controlling them. I know I did. Like, yes, I really thought my husband was just the biggest loser pants because he just wasn't ambitious. And I remember I kept saying, you need to make more money, right? Maybe you can make more money. Well, he quit his job. He was making no money. And I, I was so resentful because I was making all of my. And that was like one impression that I had of him. And then I developed a new spouse fulfilling prophecy. So I kind of recognized, fortunately, that I was speaking into him. You don't make money. And I'm such a powerful manifester, right? He quit his job. Look at me. That's how good I am. And all of us, right, are good at manifesting what we focus on. So I decided to come up with, with this new spouse fulfilling prophecy, which was, you're such a great provider. You've always been a good provider. And then just for fun, I started calling him Mr. Moneybags. And right around that time, he started his own business. He'd never started a business before, and he was more successful in that business than he'd been at his previous jobs. So I had a totally different experience of this man because I changed my focus and I gathered evidence for my new spouse fulfilling process. So I think a lot of times we have this impression like, oh, no, my husband could never pay the bills because he's not responsible, or my husband drinks too much, or my husband always flirts with other women or whatever it is that we've been focused on. That a lot of times comes just out of our own fear. I had fear of financial insecurity before I ever met my husband. I brought that into the marriage and then I projected it onto him. And he would have had to break the laws of the universe for that to get fixed for me. Because I was bent on reading fear of financial insecurity daily and just like filling my head with that pretty much. And it wasn't until I gave up, I canceled that subscription and started focusing on abundance and prosperity and just counting my blessings, like really being grateful that I had that really expensive eye cream. I still have some of that left, even though I thought there wasn't enough to pay the property tax, taxes or whatever.

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Okay, so we've kind of tied touched on the second one, but let's go into it a bit deeper. So not being able to. So number two was you're too helpful or number one was you're too helpful. Number two is you don't know what you desire.

You don't know what you desire. Yeah, I had an unfortunate. Unfortunate I guess. But it took me a long time to come around to this one. And this is kind of goes back to what you were saying, like wanting to blame him. Right? Because you don't know what you desire, you're not saying what you desire. So I have wanted a pool. For just the longest time, I've wanted a pool, but it seems really indulgent. We don't have kids. If I had kids, I could just say, yeah, I want a pool for the kids. For the kids, yeah, for someone else, not for me. And so I was holding my desire at arm's length like this, like just kind of like, I want a pool. And I was not getting a pool. So just within the last, I don't know, year or so got really clear. I really would love a pool. Pool. And we still live in that house, by the way, that he thought we should, you know, he was like, I think we should sell. And I was like, I want to stay. Well, we stayed and there's a pool sized hole in my backyard right now and I'm getting a pool. I'm actually getting it. And this is, I've seen this over and over again. I. The way I got my Amazon prime series was I thought, oh, I would love to have my own show, my own TV show. So I was, that was scary too. I thought, well, who am I to have a TV show? Whatever. Anyway, so. But I thought, I'm going to say it out loud to myself, to my husband. And then I told all my coaches, I have about 40 coaches, and we were at an event and I said, you guys, I would love to have my own TV show. And they were like, oh yeah, that'd be great. You know, they were supportive. Well, that night I was hosting this event and in the audience was an Emmy Award winning TV producer. And she came up to me afterwards, she said, have you ever thought about having your own TV show? I was like, oh yeah, I have. And yeah. And then like four months later I was in the studio recording 13 episodes of Empowered Wives on Amazon Prime. So I just am seeing again and again how powerful it is. But you have to have the courage to say it. And sometimes I'm scared to say it. And I noticed it's true with some of my students as well. Like they're just afraid to say what they want because it feels vulnerable. And what if that somebody makes fun of them for wanting that? Or when somebody says you don't deserve it? It's a scary thing.

Oh, I love that so much. That's been a huge lesson for me from any of the things that have triggered. Kind of like how you said someone was in the audience and Here's a TV show. Like, it's because of the multiple times that you expressed that desire openly. And it's like you have to speak it out loud. You have to tell everyone you know, you have to proclaim exactly what it is that you want, because that's actually the only way it's going to happen.

That's exactly right.

You're gonna meet someone who can help you. Cause that's really what we're looking for when we express our desire. Or expressing our desire is essentially putting out an SOS for like, of who can me.

That's right. It's inviting the universe to sort of rearrange things so that they can be the way that I want, instead of, like, complaining that they're not the way that I want. Right. And that it's been such a great skill to have in my marriage, because my husband. I've asked thousands of men, actually, not just my husband, but I've asked thousands of men, how important is it to you that your wife is happy? And they all said the same thing. They said, said, oh, it's everything, or it's the most important thing. And in the uk, they say it's imperative. So it's a universal thing. Happy wife, happy life. It's not just an adage. Right. So if you aren't expressing your desires and you just have that corresponding drop in vitality and happiness as a result, it's really tempting to say, like, he doesn't make me happy, but, gosh, does he have a chance? Does he even know what you want? Or are you doing like I used to do? Like, this kitchen is a disaster. And you think you're telling them what you want, but you're not. Right. So just getting a grip on what it is and being willing to say it out loud, tremendous for your marriage.

It's so interesting because I'm even looking at our. You know, my husband and I's languaging around different things. We kind of had this point in our marriage where he had come home from working at an office and I had worked at home, and we had a whole new language to learn.

And he was.

Was kind of like how I wanted him to be doing things, or I wanted to, you know, certain things to be happening in our marriage. He also had things that he wanted in our marriage. And I was using terrible language with him. Meaning just like, the wrong. Exactly what you're saying, just the wrong way to kind of quote unquote, motivate. And I don't know the phrase you're saying. But you keep saying it. I'm forgetting it. And it's so good. Kind of like inspiring in an inspirational way. And so I'm even observing how this. So of course it goes both ways. But I can reflect back to the times where the language that he would use around trying to motivate me, around setting goals for money, around what I was doing, I did it in a very, like, I don't, you know, I.

Don'T need a goal.

All the right people will come in and we'll sell these tickets. And he's like, no, you need this.

Goal and you need to be operating from here.

And it was very, like, linear and scary and fear based. And we had to. He had to learn a new language for inspiring me. And now I just realized he's completely got it nailed. And I couldn't even tell you exactly what it is right now, but I'm always very inspired to create whatever it is I'm sure he's also looking for. But I'm like, oh, we've kind of, like, worked this out without realizing it to get these different positive things. And I don't feel fear around it. So it's just an observation. How would the spouse or the woman also help them with their languaging around what is kind of like throwing up walls around them?

Oh, great question. Because it's hurtful, right? Like, if you. And your approach was very yin, like, oh, you know, the ticket sales will come. And he's like, we need goals, right? We've got to have structure here. This is a very Yang approach. So. And it's really common. In fact, I remember feeling like, oh, there's emotional abuse going on in my marriage. I kind of cringe when I think of it that way now because really there was just fighting and you're like, I was saying horrible things and he was saying horrible things, and that. That's what happens, right? So. So even if it's like, so in this situation, you're trying to work together and make it feel good and happy and not have it sacrifice the part where you're so happy to see each other, right? Or you feel desired. And. And so one of the really powerful phrases that I've learned for doing that is, again, it feels so vulnerable to use it, but it's so powerful. And that little cheat phrase, it's one word, hurt, and it is ouch. So whenever I'm tempted to respond by defending, it's because I'm hurt. Whenever I'm angry, that's a cover for hurt. There's like, this little tender piece under there. Like, no, I just wanted to see. I think the ticket sales will come or whatever.

Right.

Like, I. And so if I can just let him know, like, and he doesn't want to hurt me, oh, my God. It's the last thing he wants to do. So if I can say ouch before I have, let's say, lobbed another bomb once, I've already said, yeah, well, you know, you're not keeping up your side of the street either. Whatever. If I've already said something mean, then we're both kind of in battle and there's a lot of armor up. And so an ouch is probably not going to land that well. But it is also such a great way for me to maintain my dignity, because if I'm saying ouch, it might be keeping me from saying something really disrespectful that's going to give me an emotional hangover that I'm going to regret later. And it just kind of takes the whole conversation in a different direction. And now, I mean, I would say 99.9% of the time if I say ouch, I get an apology. But I also rarely have to say ouch anymore because my husband's so tuned in, and there's very little of the kind of conversations we used to have where a lot of ouches would happen.

I'm picking up on so many good things here and also some really confirming things. And I'm also getting a lot of new tools on getting some new, almost for lack of a better term, like mantras for pattern interrupt of what you were doing. And just like, it's like a pause, a pattern interrupt, and a redirect, like these beautiful. Just kind of phrases that you can go to in moments. And I think sometimes we think it's like you might be listening to this conversation and maybe your marriage just feels so lost right now.

Right?

Like, just so. There's so many things wrong. Like, you can think that one way, a miscommunication, or you not having proper communication within the marriage. You can think it's a bigger problem than you can solve when a lot of times I personally have found that it really is exactly everything you're saying. It's just a miscommunication. Just you don't know how to communicate with each other, or you don't have these little, like, white flags to raise and say, hey, let's take a minute, or let's learn a new way. So this is so incredibly powerful, and I would love to hear maybe some more Phrases like that for maybe in the middle of a fight or a redirect or. I need you to maybe I just need you to listen right now. Do you have anything that pops in your mind that's powerful for that?

I would never say. I just need you to listen right now. Yeah.

Asking for the opposite, Right?

Yeah. You kind of act. Yeah. In a way, you are. What I'll do is I asked for my husband's thinking. Asked it a lot, actually. He's been super instrumental with the success of my business and stuff, too. And what I usually say is, I would love to borrow your brain. Which is kind of another way of triggering his hero gene. Right. She wants my thinking. She needs my help. Right. She's vulnerable. I want to protect. I want to provide and unburden her. That's all he's thinking all the time. And I can tap into that anytime I want. But I think where that conversation used to break down, kind of like your road trip conversation, was he would say, well, I think you should do this. Or here's an idea. And then I'd be like, no. So then I didn't want to do it. Right. And so then I was like, okay, never mind. Right. And I would go away. And the part that I didn't understand was he just doesn't have enough information. I have to keep going. What is it that I want that that solution doesn't solve? Right. So it's like, well, you know, you could drop off the car, you know, tomorrow after, you know, you get back from the workout or whatever. No, but. Oh, but I wanted. I also wanted to see my sister for coffee. He didn't know that part. So then he's like, coming up with another solution. Right. So I think where it feels kind of dangerous to get into that conversation is if you don't know how to get out of it respectfully. By just going, never mind. I didn't like your idea.

Oh, yeah, right.

Which is incredibly disrespectful. And respect is like oxygen for husbands. If that's gone missing, that's where it really feels like everything is falling apart. A lot of times. A lot of times we don't even know we're being disrespectful. No, I thought I was like. I was like, oh, I'm totally respectful. Like, I. I don't leave a mess. I let him know where I am. I'll reheat his dinner if he comes home late. Like, that has nothing to do with respect. Peace. You know, respect for them is. I'm Expecting the best. I think he's going to do a great job. I think he's really capable. I think he's really competent and I act accordingly. And of course that's why I married him. So I just forgot in between that he was this really smart guy.

Oh, it's so good. I think about all the times. So every day we go for a walk and we download on each other's day and get advice and get perspectives and opinions and all of the things. That's our time to kind of do all those things so often right now because I am in something that is so new and I also want to be learning on my own, but I also want his perspective and kind of like what you said, I'm realizing I'm not giving him enough information. Cause I have done the. And I kind of know it when I'm doing it and I have to get better with it. It's just such a great reminder of, you know, he'll give me things that I could be doing and I didn't tell him all the things that I tried. Maybe. So it's like, no, I did that. No, it's very short. Cause sometimes, and this is the reality, sometimes we only have that hour to catch up. So it feels like I'm doing something that is productive by like saying, no, no, like moving on, let's get to the good stuff or let's get to the information that's going to actually help us. And we forget that if I was on the other end of that as well, it would feel like, you know, the quick nos sometimes feel like bad idea. Like that's what it sounds like, bad idea. Nevermind, don't need your input. Instead of like, oh, let me give you some more. And then, you know, if not, say maybe I don't think I have it worked out enough to ask you this question yet. Or something like that. Like, you know what I'm going to ask you in a week when I know a little bit more or something. So that's just really great insight for me right now when it feels like I'm trying to be productive, I'm actually being an a hole, so.

Well, hey, I can relate to you, Laurie. I've done the same thing. It's so funny too. Like, think of like, no one's got your back more than your husband does, right? So he's almost like your board of your uber board of directors in a way. Like he's. And can you imagine going to your board of directors and saying like, what do you guys Think I should do okay? No, I don't like that idea. Moving on. You just wouldn't do that. You would try to give them back, you know, so it's funny how I. It is funny.

I totally treat, like, my team different. Like I'm just like, okay, I loved.

That you did this here.

Yeah. You're like acknowledging them, right? And you're empathizing with them, with your husband. You're like, ah, look at it. Right. I mean, I've done the same thing. So it's much nicer to do it the other way. It can take longer. And I'm an impatient person. I'm just not a patient person really at all. I want my result. My favorite time is right now. So I can just relate to the piece shortly. I don't want to go into it.

Oh my gosh. So good. Okay, so let's go into the third one. You're not prioritizing your happiness, right?

And this was so true for me too. So when I was in an unhappy marriage, I just thought that if I started acting happy, like he would think what he's doing is okay. And it was totally not okay. And I wanted him to know it was not okay. So I was really pretty attached to that misery. And I also felt pretty overwhelmed in my marriage. Like I had to do everything I was doing, you know, paying the bills and making sure the cars were maintained and cleaning the house, you know, and I'm working and supporting. I had to do everything because I wanted it all done my way. So as a result, there was no time for stuff. And it turns out I now know that I love to play volleyball. In fact, playing volleyball is the meaning of life. Playing as much as you can. And so I do. I play as much as I can now, which is kind of a lot. Right. But until I started just prioritizing and I felt guilty and I felt like I shouldn't just go to the beach in the middle of the day. I will work day to go play volleyball. That's ridiculous. You know, who can do. Who does that? Not me. Well, yeah, now I do. And so the indispensable first step of actually fixing your marriage, of giving yourself a lasting marriage, is doing at least three things a day for your own frivolous happiness. And they don't necessarily have to. It's not like getting your recycling done or making sure there's five fruits and veggies. Like it might be that that becomes legitimately part of your self care. But this is more like you just like read a novel on the deck with like a glass of lemonade or something. It's just the frivolous stuff. Maybe you went paddle boarding just because you love to go paddle boarding. Or, you know, you just stopped at Starbucks and got yourself that little cup of coffee and had 15 minutes of solitude. It's just. And it's three every day. So what I loved when I was trying to fix my marriage was having a list of. I made a list of 20 things that brought me joy. Activities, non activities, like napping. And then I would just check it off. I'd give myself little stars. Like I did three today. I made Laura happy. And then when I made Laura happy, funny thing happened happen. My husband, like, would come and sit right, right next to me. I'd be working on my laptop and he would have to sit right next to me. He just wanted to be next to me because I was just that happy. You're vibing Goddess of fun and light that he fell in love with. Yeah. And we just. I see this happen again and again with my students. A lot of them arrive on my campus going, I don't even know what makes me happy. I'm a mom. I'm devoted to my family. I work full time. I don't have a lot of time. I haven't been thinking about myself. I've been to trying. Trying to make sure everyone else is happy. And I remember I have one student who. She's a mom of really young children. And so she was getting no breaks because you don't when you have really young children. And she has trained her whole family now that she gets two hours every single day in the middle of the day where she can nap or journal or just read or talk on the phone, whatever she wants. And the kids are trained. Like, if you want a happy mama, then you can't ask for a glass of water or a hug or anything else. And that's what they get. They get a happy mama and a happy wife. And she couldn't really show up that way before she was getting that break in the middle of the day.

And that might even seem like, how in the hell is that possible? Maybe some mom's listening or maybe that feels really selfish. That might have sounded really selfish to some people. And I can tell you, just not from a mom perspective, but I can tell you from a child perspective, I wish my mother would have done whatever she needed to do to be happy. While I have good memories, I also know that she did not do things for herself. And it really. From my observation of being A more observant child. I really, really spent my whole life wishing and trying to make her happy. And I think that that's such a burden on children. And I love my mom and there's many conversations all the time. But I think that parents don't realize how much children are burdened with wanting to make their parents happy and please their parents. And that's a big memory for me is I wish she would have been gone. I wish she would have gone and done the things. And I could have seen her playing volleyball on the beach for two hours a day and been like, peace, mom. Like, have fun. Those would have been huge things. That if I could have had that more valuable time with her being happy, I think it would have impacted me in such a completely different way. And I'm grateful for everybody, everything in how I've grown up. But truly that would have been the gift of a lifetime.

It would have. That's a great example. I remember I had this one woman who also, she had a lot of kids, same kind of thing, wasn't making herself happy and she decided she was. As part of her self care, she wanted to watch a movie after her kids went to school, but she really only had like 15 minutes because then after they went to school, then this happened, stuff was happening. So she could only watch 15 minutes of a movie every single day. But she did. She'd sit and watch 15 minutes of it and like by the end of the week she's seen basically the whole movie. And she said it just made such a difference. She was happier, she was more filled up and she just. It gave her so much more patience with her kids, more tolerance, and she felt like a better role model. And now imagine you're so. You're looking at it from the kid perspective, which I love, because wouldn't we all have loved to see our moms a little happier? Right. That would be a great gift. But think about it from a husband perspective, where your biggest goal in life is that your wife is happy, happy, and she's never happy. Like, how frustrating is that? How demoralizing. And they will stop trying if they feel like they can't ever make a dent. And you know, it's like you said, self care, it's not selfish. Self care is almost like self control in a way. Because if I depleted, if I'm overdrawn with my energy account, then every little thing my husband says is going to land wrong and kind of cause a conflict. Whereas if I'm filled up, I mean, something could go really Wrong. And I. I'd be like, okay, well, it's only money, you know, comes and goes. So it's funny. Like, I know a lot of my students be like, okay, I need to skip that part because you don't understand. My marriage is really in crisis. It's like, no, don't. This is the thing. You give yourself very little chance of having a happy marriage if you're not happy, because only happy people have happy marriages.

Oh, man. I think about the times when, you know, if you've ever had a friend or someone that you really, really feel. A parent, a sibling that you really feel, you cannot make them happy because they're not happy. And you realize that observation, you pull away. You're like, well, then I'm gonna get the hell out of here, because nothing I do is making you happy. And you try to contain your little own world, and you're like, well, I'm gonna stay away from you, because every time my world collides with you, you just end up making me unhappier because I can't help you. And that's kind of how it is, because if we're not communicating our needs, we literally are just, like, completely unhappy. And we're saying we have no control by not like, gaining control back with our words, communication, all of those things. So it's just.

It's this.

Would you say spouse fulfilling prophecy of even how we react. It's crazy.

Yeah.

So good. Okay, so we're nearing the end here. I would love to know what did we not cover? What's something that you absolutely just feel like you want everybody that you come and come contact with to know?

You know, I'm on a mission to end world divorce because of my own experience. Right. I just don't want anyone to suffer just because she doesn't have the right information. I mean, they had no Relationships 101 at my school. My parents are divorced. I just want everyone to have the right information that I didn't get, you know, when I was a newlywed. So I would love for everyone to have the six intimacy skills which are laid out step by step. All these cheat phrases. There's over 20 of them that are just meant to put your heart right. Sort of like the way we teach kids to say please and thank you. Right. We're just trying to put their hearts right so you can get that in the book. The Empowered Wife. They're all laid out there. And I also have something pretty fun going on right now, which is the Free Adored wife roadmap. Available on my website@lauradoyle.org you can get that there. I really just want everyone to have all the information and the support that they need. Right. I had a hard time getting it going by myself, getting those new habits. So we also provide by lots of support if that's. Especially if you're in a crisis, you don't have to be going through that alone. You shouldn't be going through that alone. Right. It's really hard. Yeah.

So good. Well, I know that I loved this more than anything and my marriage is like my number one. So I'm so grateful to always be able to make it better. And it's easy to forget. I don't care how I mean we've been. It'll be or it is 15 years. Should probably start by remembering that he's the one who remembers all the dates, not me. But with that said, it's just, it's so powerful to always continue learning. It's very easy to be like, oh, we're good and you really think you are and we really are. But there's always things that can be re looked at because as you get into building these lives and I'm sure as even kids come into the picture and things, it's easy to forget and focus on other things. So this is powerful for no matter where you are and especially even before you have a partner, I think these, these are powerful things that can even help manifest A partner is learning how to be even a partner to yourself and realizing your desires and practicing this in other relationships in your life. It's so powerful.

Exactly. Yeah. The intimacy skills apply to every relationship.

Every relationship.

Yeah.

Where can we find you? Follow you? Get your book?

Sure. So lauradoyle.org is a great place to start get that Adored Wife roadmap for free. I also have a free Facebook group for adored wives. It's Adored Wife actually. So you can come and be an adorable there and those are great places to get started.

Wonderful. Well, I'm so grateful for you. This was like absolutely just such a complete honor and joy. So I loved this conversation. Could talk to you all day and everyone. We always love to just give back to our guest by tagging Laura. So what is your Instagram handles They can tag you and let you know.

Know it's auramdoyle lauramdoyle.

So give Laura a tag when you upload this to your stories and let her know what your biggest takeaway was. And just if you had an aha moment or something that you're going to use maybe you're going to use one of those phrases. I know that I'm going to be using the whatever you think. I trust you. Let her know if there's some impact. And you've noticed a big change in your relationships by using this. So. So until next time, everyone earn your happy bye bye.