824. How To Become A Transformational Leader With Transformational Leadership Expert Lindsay Sukornyk

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The deeper we have the courage to go in our own work, the more space we feel capable of holding for others. So the reason that I feel that I can hold space for people is because there's there are very few dark corners that I haven't explored in my own inner work.

Welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of Light Pink, best selling author, three time fitness world champion, and I'm a crazy, multi passionate entrepreneur. My journey has taken me everywhere from being a broke waitress, barista, retails associate and personal trainer with massive anxiety and no belief in myself to later becoming a multimillionaire in love with my life. In 2007, my husband and I lost everything. We found ourselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at rock bottom. We had no ideas and I had no education to fall back on. This is when I found personal development and learned everything I could about business. Not by choice, but because I realized no one was coming to save me. The conversations on this podcast are going to let you know that you're not alone and that we all feel like we don't know what we're doing. We're going to give you the tools to help you face your fears, take action, start your business, and grow those massive dreams that are keeping you up at night. It's time to create a life that you can't hide from and put so much on the line that your higher self is forced to come out. You're going to stop waiting for someone to approve of you and you're going to anoint yourself. Because I'm obsessed about building businesses that give women a platform. I want to feature you. So if you text the word podcast to 310-496-8363, you can get your questions answered on our Q and A segment along with a shout out. And if you rate, review and subscribe to this podcast, we're choosing someone every minute month to get coached and featured on our show. It just might be you. So let's get started. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Today you get to meet and listen to one of my favorite people in the whole world. That is Lindsay Sikornik. She's been changing my life ever since the moment I met her. She is actually one of the women that I wrote about in my trial. I add my bliss tribe in my book A Tribe called Bliss. We met for years and years and years every other week for an hour talking all things business, life. Really, the most personal things I've ever shared in my life have been shared with this woman. And I can tell you that today she is going to change your life as well. She's a transformational leadership expert, international speaker, master coach to Global Game Changers, TEDx Speaker, HuffPost Blogger, author of the the path of the unicorn and founder of Alive and awake. And so many of the quotes and sayings that I have used, the pivotal moments that have changed my life from her advice, you are gonna hear some of these. And I promise you there's something about her that just gives you something to cling to and really understand and change your perspective to the point where you can decide to change in an instant. And I really think that the way that she teaches is that. So, you guys, I can't wait to have you listen into this conversation and hopefully picture yourself just sitting at the table with us like you were one of our friends, one of our girlfriends. And let's get started. Lindsay, I'm so excited to have you back on the show. Thank you so much for coming.

I am so excited to be here and I miss you and I love you and I'm so, so excited for our conversation.

Oh, my gosh, God is so good. For real, though, because today I was just telling you this is like one of those days where I was like, oh, my goodness, I need to just, like, be with a soul sister. And it just, of course it's with, like, the person who I've transformed the most with. And you guys, that's where I want to start, is that Lindsay, you have been such a force in my life. Truly one of the women who has activated and transformed so much for me. Like, I still use all of your mantras, mottos. Just the way that you have helped me process things and really learn how I process has been so powerful. And you guys, if you don't know, I actually wrote about Lindsay in my book, A Tribe Called Bliss because I did a sort of. I guess we ended up calling it just a mastermind every other week for an hour. I met with you for years, three years, maybe almost four years, five years. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. Wow. No wonder you're so infused in my DNA. So really, really thrilled to have you back here because honestly, I would just love to have you as a co host, but I'll have you back as much as I can because you do seriously transformative work for people. So, you guys, I'm so excited for you to not only listen to this, but also potentially have the opportunity to have the experiences that I have had with Lindsay in the jungle. Not in the jungle, at Bliss Project. You can now do them in Sedona as well. These incredible retreats that she calls Al and Awake, where you really infuse everything. It's the whole human. It's your life's work, it's your business, it is, you know, your spirit. It is sisterhood, brotherhood, all of the things coming together and how none of the. Without any of those things, we're really kind of ignoring what makes us feel whole. And that's why I'm so thrilled today to be talking about your life's work. And I kind of want to talk about how you got to this place of you now in the jungle, living in Costa Rica. But it didn't start this way. It didn't start with you thinking about this is how it was going to end up. But now you're working with these incredible world changers, founders, business leaders, people who want to make big shifts in the world, and you're bringing them into these beautiful elements to really crack them open. So let's talk about where you started and how this vision came to be planted for you.

Okay, Amazing. First of all, I have to receive all of the beautiful words you just said and thank you for that, and mirror back to you what a massive, massive role you've played in my life. And you were literally the person that kind of launched me onto this global career that we're talking about. When you saw, I was like, I tell this story hundreds of times. I was like this kind of pseudo stay at home mom eating grilled cheese crusts. And you were like, hey, you want to come and teach at Bliss Project? I'm like, who, me? What do you mean? And you really saw the level at which I was operating before I even saw it. And you trusted me and you believed in me and you were such a mirror and also holding space as I was going through massive transformation in my own life. And a lot of the deep work you talk about doing with clients. I always start with myself first, as you know. And you held so much space for me in my darkest days, my most vulnerable days, and just constantly being such a source of empathy and love and this mirror of magnificence that you provided for me, that you saw things in me way before I even saw them in me. So I bow down to you in deepest gratitude and love forever. So thank you for everything.

Okay, I'm crying. Great.

I know we can't wait five minutes. So let's talk about the journey. And so my journey started, I think, as most people do, with really trying to check off all the boxes that society tells us. In my case, I grew up in a family with a lot of mental health issues, addiction stuff, and in hindsight now what we would call trauma situations and generational. And so for me it manifested in a lot of chronic anxiety and I channeled it towards perfectionism and trying to control everything which looked like in my world major overachievement and grinding my since I was like 7, not even as an adult, like since I was a young child. And I ended up following this very type A driven path really in an attempt to control everything because I felt so out of control inside with this chronic anxiety, this feeling of unsettledness. And so I ended up going to an elite business school and getting into consulting, management consulting, and doing what I thought I should do. I really just checking off the boxes is like you get a job, you get married, you have kids, all the things. And I was like perfectly perfect in every way. And then I found myself with this quote unquote perfect life on paper and at multiple points in my life in multiple different realms, I had these sort of like shattering breakdown, moments of truth and moments of awakening. The first for me happened around career and when I was in this quote, unquote perfect job that everyone wanted, I found myself, you know, I was like living in this like overly air conditioned office building, doing work that I was really good at, which was numerical analysis. But I was like numb. I hated it. I couldn't wait till like I remember there was like a 4pm coffee break time and I counted down the seconds and I'm like, oh God, is this it for me for the next 60 years of a career? And so to answer your question about what got me on this path, it has been really non linear in many ways, in every way unplanned. And so what I've done is I've. I've had the gift of listening to my own intuition and being able to have the guts or recklessness or risk tolerance or however you want to call it, to leap into the unknown and trust that I'm going to figure it out on the way down. And so what I did is I quit that job. I went traveling around the world. And from that moment on, I think that was the turning point moment where I broke free of the matrix or of that kind of like boxed in path of life, of playing in the sandbox that society had kind of created for me and that I bought into. And so from then I've had this, I would call it more of like a hybrid model of. I'm very much a believer in strategy and creating vision. So I've always had clarity and through my coach training and the work I do with clients, a clear clarity about, about my life purpose, my vision, my values. So I did a lot of work around articulating that as kind of like the architectural framework of what it is I wanted to create. Why am I on the planet? And that's when I really transitioned into coaching, doing work with transformational leadership, speaking, working in organizations, but within the context of like, this is the life I want and this is the type of work I want to do. I've also been very much in my intuition and available for the flow of what unexpected things life throws at me. In my case, usually it's like a giant smackdown from the universe or like a smash in the head because I'm very stubborn and determined and tenacious, which is good in many ways. But I sometimes don't listen to the whispers of my soul until they become screams. So a lot of what I talk about, like breakdown or shattering moments are those awakening moments that have pivoted me professionally, personally. Where I live, having awakenings, for example, that I was meant to live in Costa Rica at a time when it was insane. There was not even cell phone service. There were no doctors in town. There was like nothing here. And my soul was like, no, this place is for you. But then what I've done is I've mapped on like logic and strategy, so letting my mind and my strategic mind, my analytical and my planning that of me to kind of be in service of what my soul and my intuition is usually insanely telling me to do. I'm like, are you kidding me? That's crazy. Soul and spirit's like, yep, this is it. And so then what I have to do is sort of wrap strategy and planning and discernment and then a whole lot of trust and surrender and patience and processing around all of that. So that's been kind of the path to where I've gotten in. Partly planning, mostly a lot of listening and leaping as I've been guided.

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I mean what did that look like when you first started to think like I should move to Costa Rica? Because you definitely your life was not. It wouldn't be easy. What did that feel like first and how did you know you couldn't ignore it anymore?

I want to share this because I feel that many, many people are in a similar situation where like logically and on paper, your soul telling you to do something is literally insane. Like it's not even possible, right? I'm sure you've experienced the same thing. You're like literally not possible. And then it becomes clear that it's what needs to happen and then it's up to us to stumble into the how and to like figure it out. As I said. So for me, to give a context, I was living in downtown Toronto. I was coaching exclusively in like Bay street elite law firms, investment banks, banks, telecom. My business was entirely in that kind of those types of industries. I was married to my partner who at the time who was building tech startups. So he would have, he created five consecutive tech startups. We're very much in that early days of the tech startups, which required him to manage staffs of like 150, 200 programmers and people, you know, all these very hands on. And then we were having babies and you know, I wanted to have a larger family. So we had four babies and our life was very rooted in the North American kind of way of being and way of life. And then we came down here on this vacation for a surf camp for a week when I had my first baby, only she wasn't even yet one. And I was following my passion of adventure sports travel. You know, discovery is a huge passion I've always had and I kept them very separate. But to explain how it felt, I will never forget because I got out of the rental car, checked into this little hotel. There were like three hotels in town at the time. There was literally one international pay phone, no cell service. It was like the day, do a call with your calling card to your parents and be like, we got here safely, we'll talk to you in a week. And I remember getting out of the call and out of the car and I think we're probably having like a smoothie before we got ready to go surfing. And I had this full body knowing. It's like I felt like I've come home and I've had it in a few different places throughout the course of my life. And. And it's a feeling of peace, It's a feeling of clarity. I can only describe it as a knowing. And for me it's very physical. It's like a physical sensation. But it's also, I would say maybe a soul or a spiritual knowing. And so I don't know if that's clear to articulate, but that's my experience of it. And then it was just kind of like, huh, that's interesting. And also insane as my mind jumps in and it's like living Costa Rica, that's crazy. You know, you're birthing babies, you're doing all this stuff. There's not even a doctor in town and your husband also running tech companies, and your whole business is in these, like, very corporate settings. So what I did is I just locked it. I'm like, noted, you know, thank you, spirit. Thank you, universe. And what I did is. And this is something I think is really powerful. It doesn't need to be like 0 to 100 or all or nothing all at once. And so what I did was I started to create my own reality in whatever ways I could. And for me at that time, it meant scraping together every spare cent that we had, which was almost none because we were in startup mode constantly. But to rent a house for like two weeks a year, to get my kids down here, to get myself down here and our family and just experience like even two weeks a year of this pura Vida, of this being in nature, kids naked on the beach, surfing, yoga, connected to a community that is like so high vibe and really rooting into those. Those values that I had and that knowing. And that went on for years, like I think 12 years of that and eventually extended it to a month, a year. And I would come down. This is important because I know specifically a lot of women who feel limited because maybe their partner can't travel or they can't. They have a different. So I had a partner who was very. He's a CEO of tech companies, like VC funded. Like, he was not on vacay mode ever. So I would come down by myself with the kids and bring my mom. And this is another thing I want. Like, I look back on it now and I think it's a little bit insane, but in a good way that I did it. But like to just do it, you know, just like buy the ticket, take the ride, as Hunter S. Thompson said. And so I would just show up in the jungle with my two, three, four babies under six, and I would figure it out. And then my husband at the time would join me for the last couple weeks. But almost every year I would say to him, hey, should we do this thing? And he would rightly be in full on startup mode and being like, I can't plan. I don't know what's going to happen, but I didn't let it stop me. And I'm proud of myself for that. And I think that many of us, we think, well, my loved ones don't believe in my vision or they don't get it, or I can't because my partner's not bought in or whatever those truths may even be. I want to invite people to continue to trust their intuition. And I really like that idea of, like, it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. And so I would just be like, I totally get it. I understand. I'm going to go ahead and go. And you're welcome. I would love to have you join us if you can. But I understand that you have your career and your thing. I was able to work remotely always, and I ultimately ended up just taking that month off to be with the kids because my work is flexible by design, because I wanted that. After I was in corporate, I was like, I want to have autonomy and freedom and be able to travel and work remotely. And so I created that for myself. But just because everyone in your life doesn't have the same reality doesn't mean that you need to sit at home and wait for everyone to go follow your dreams. And it's been my experience that over time and as I got older and wiser and had, like, many beautiful experiences under my belt, the less I care what other people think, and the more quickly you just pursue your own passion, your own path, the more quickly everyone comes on board. If you're sitting there like, I don't know, I'm not sure, getting permission from everyone, what do you think? Oh, so and so's not body. My mother doesn't think it's a good idea. If you're available for everyone's opinion, well, then they're all going to give it to you. And then if you listen to them, big mistake, Then you're going to be sitting in a holding pattern of nothingness forever or worse, selling out on yourself, compromising and living someone else's life, which is literally living a lie, which is what leads to the slow or quick death of the soul and ultimately physical death, because it eats away at you. And that's what all these, like, autoimmune diseases and literally cancers and heart diseases, they are directly linked to stress and unexpressed emotions, mental health issues, all of it. So when I say, like, follow your bliss, it's not like a bumper sticker, fun thing to say. It's literally like the best thing to do for your health, for your thriving, for everything. So I Had the tenacity. I have a couple of kids who are like this, and it's not the easiest to parent, but it's helpful sometimes to just be like, you know what, Watch me. I'm just going to go do this and I'll figure it out. And that doesn't mean you're not terrified, scared, clueless, all of those things, but there's this tenacity of, like, just doing it and just leaping into it. And then all of a sudden, everyone's on board. And when we fast forward now, that was like, you know, that was almost 16 years ago, will be my daughter's turning 17 in March. And now it's cool to, like, travel with your kids and live nomadically and homeschooling is a thing, and online learning and all these things that were radical and edgy and taboo. Leaving corporate to start my own business, like, all these things were very taboo when I did any of them. And over time, the world catches up. You know, if you're truly a visionary or who even cares about being a visionary? You just know what you want to do and how you want to live your life. The less that you pay attention to what everyone else thinks about it or what society says, and the more quickly you just follow your heart and use your mind to do it in a smart way, in a mindful way. So I didn't just pack up everything and move. It took me 12 years. I'm not like, I didn't just, like, you know, join a hippie caravan and forget. We built five businesses. I built my coaching business, like, had four babies, like, did all the things, but over time and with strategy, created my own reality and ultimately our own reality that's now, again, very aspirational and considered to be almost like mainstream, if not what people are really desiring, which is freedom, autonomy, travel, living nomadically, some people, etc. So those are some of the major lessons and the things that I look back on now that I'm grateful for. And yeah, I kind of like pat myself on the back right now because I didn't think about it when I was doing it. When I was in my late 20s and early 30s, I'm like, I just did it. And now I look back at my younger self and I've had some good cries over it. And I look back at my younger self at home with these little babies and getting on planes and schlepping strollers and car seats and coming to these houses in the jungle, which were literally death traps for children. They had no building codes I would show up at 11 at night after traveling for 14 hours with like four kids and my mom who needs like a wheelchair at the airport, like she's got her hip things happening. And I would get here and I would have no idea where I was and I would just be like so out of my comfort zone. The metaphors are like everywhere. And then I would have to go and spend three days at the hardware store baby proofing our house and making sure the kids didn't drop dead off these all like death trap drops and. But it was all like inside service of following that call to adventure, that call to giving my kids a different reality, to giving them an education not just out of books, but as in like going to see the turtles laying eggs and being born and learning to surf at like 6 years old and being immersed in a culture around spirituality and connection in these blue zone where people live to over 100 at 10 times higher rate, like all of it. For me, the risk was, was so far surpassed by the return of what I was able to create for us in our life that I do. I look back at myself and I'm like, go, girl. You did that. You did that thing to my younger self. Because I didn't have the time or the inclination or the interest in celebrating myself at the time. I was just like, in it and doing it. But I feel very proud of myself actually at this stage of my life for who I had to be, how I had to show up in life. And I feel very excited to be able to hold space for others to do the same thing and to. To be inspired and to be activated in their own way for whatever their dreams are.

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How could that look.

Or how could this actually work? And how could, you know, bringing all of these things into almost in a light way and not such a serious way like that everything has to be lined up and it has to look a certain way. But really, just like you shared in your story, like, maybe it didn't look a certain way the first year, but then you start figuring things out and really being kind of, like, playful about how you're imagining what it could look like and letting things be. I love the phrase that you always say, life can be fun and easy if you let it. Like, I've given that to so many people, and they're like, oh, my God, it can. Like, is that a thing? And I'm like, you actually get to grant that yourself. And it's something that I say to myself all the time because of you. So, you know, you bring people together and you bring them out of the box, like, out of their box. Tell me about why this is such an important element to you, like, getting people outside of their norm and getting them also into different, healthier situations. Because you also talk a lot about how you were in the corporate world, and sometimes they would just put them up in a hotel and think that they were helping their team, when really it just kind of is like the opposite. So tell me about the method that you found that really, really works for getting people just reconnected and reimagin.

Absolutely. Thank you for that question, because I know you and I are so aligned on this. My background, my passion, my obsession has been leadership, transformational leadership. Since I was, like, 19 years old at business school, I'm, like, obsessed with human behavior. I literally have studied leaders of every. You can imagine, from like, jfk, Winston Churchill, Gandhi, to like, Hitler, Jesus, like, leadership on its whole and human behavior. And so what I've learned through that path and is that leadership isn't just a set of skills that we learn in school. It's a way of being, and it's a way of showing up on the planet. And I believe that every single human on the planet has the capacity to be a leader in the sense that they show up authentically, living their purpose, their vision, their values, and leading by example. That's my definition of leadership. And as I've done more and more experimentation with my own life, which is the giant social experiment, and then working with thousands of people over the Years I've learned you can't separate physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, energetic dimensions of ourselves and just focus, oh, I'm just going to talk about my career, or I'm just going to talk about my relationship, or I'm just going to talk about health and wellness. For me, it's always been a very integrated approach. And so when I do the work that I do with leaders, I always, always, always am coming at it from a holistic, integrated approach, because that's been my practice. And so literally starting with, what are you eating, how are you moving your body in general, tapping into this intuitive wisdom that we all have within ourselves, giving people the tools to gather that, like that inner knowing, that inner compass, that direct connection to spirit, your higher self, to your guides, whatever you want to call it, highest intelligence. And so when I do the experiences, whether in Costa Rica or Sedona or Italy or around the world, wherever, I have sort of like a scientific formula that I put people through and I also, in our coaching, talk about. And so it's really the culmination of, like, my lifetime of work, which is starting in the morning with. With very beautifully curated morning rituals, moving our bodies to quiet our mind, to tap into our creative spirit. And it can include any number of things to get into stillness. I know you and Chris are amazing at meditation, movement, getting out into nature, music, singing, dance, art, you name it. Whatever your magic is that helps you get into that flow state. For me, it's yoga, surfing, beach walks, dogs. I know we're both dog lovers, kids, touching your baby's skin, whatever it is, developing an awareness of what helps you to feel grounded, connected. Nature is a massive, massive thing for me, movement, et cetera. And so that really is. Is part of the foundational work that I do with people is getting ourselves to optimal performance by tapping into all of these awarenesses. And it's not about judgment or prescription. Like, you should eat that or you should meditate or you should. I couldn't care less about what anyone does. It's just a question of is this working for me or is it not? So it's a constant iterative process of discernment. Is this bringing me closer to joy or further away from joy? Huh, Interesting. Okay, maybe I'll change it, maybe I won't. I don't know. And so from there, we really work on regeneration and filling ourselves up and getting to that state of clarity, of stillness, of thriving, of rest and reset. And then the next part that I love to do, and this is again, like on a meta Level of a whole program with people over months and years or even in a workshop setting is we look at the. So regeneration is first, and then we look at transformation. And that's when we kind of get inside. And I love, love, love to get to the core of whatever it is that's driving our behaviors. And I've had some of my biggest aha's at the Bliss Project, being in the audience when you've been leading. For example, one of my favorite questions you ever asked is which parents love did you most crave as a child? And what did you think you needed to do to get it? I've used that crediting you hundreds of times also because that was like such an aha moment for me. I was like, what? And it's something locked in for me. I was like, wow. I was always craving my dad's attention. And how did I think I could get it by performing? And it was literally like the root belief that was my entire life. So that's the type of work I love to do with people. Getting to those core nuggets of what is the root cause of our behaviors, our beliefs, our patterns. Really obsessed right now with, with trauma recovery work, with understanding, understanding ancestral trauma and how that gets imprinted in our nervous systems, in our physical bodies. So these are the ways that I really love to integrate physical, mental, emotional, spiritual work from a transformative place and really getting to the core of healing ourselves, reprogramming ourselves, whatever you want to call it. I think everybody is perfect as we are. So that's sort of the middle part of it. And then once we have some really beautiful rewiring, literally when we talk about neuroplasticity and rewiring, wiring our nervous systems as the transformation side of things, then we can start to think about, or in tandem, what's next and how do we level up from this, like recharged, rewired, ready to go place. And that's when we get back into that strategy work that has been at the core of my passion of purpose, vision, values. Who am I? How do I want to show up on the planet? What's the impact I want to have? What are my values? What are my non negotiables? And that's when we really kind of take it from the inside work the deep interest, perspective, shadow work, whatever it is, and we really start to take our wisdom and our gifts and share them out in the world and start to have that massive impact or giant ripple effect that we want to have out in the world.

Oh, it's so good. I'm just thinking back to all of the different transformations of people that I was with when, you know, the year that Chris came. I think he actually came twice, my Chris. And you know, sometimes I think we can be really afraid to go to these things because it's like, oh God, we're maybe with other people or maybe I'm not even ready to look at my stuff because I think that there's. This will be an interesting question for you. Like with achievers, sometimes we're afraid to let go of like the trauma or the thing because it's, it makes us feel like it's the thing driving us and we're afraid that we'll lose our edge. Have you found that with different people?

Yes, 100%. And I also, you asked earlier about, about sort of that getting people out of their comfort zones and why do I do that? And that is the exact reason you just articulated. Because everybody that I work with are super brilliant, creative, strategic. Like, if we just stay in our heads and talk it out, we will, like, talk. We can even convince ourselves that we're like, here, we're good, we're clear. Because I've done the work, I've reframed it, blah, blah, blah. You get that same person out on a surfboard, on a horse, out in a truly physically vulnerable state, experientially vulnerable, and you can guarantee all that unresolved stuff is going to come flying out to the. You know, for some people, it's like the bugs, it's the not wearing makeup out. It's. I never know what it's going to be. But I try to encourage so good everybody to find their edge. You know, I'm a junkie for. Because I want people to feel uncomfortable for the sake of accelerating some of this transformational work. If we're just living in the same safe space our whole lives. I'm obsessed with that idea of growth mindset, of finding our growth edges in a safe container in a, in a safely held space. Because we can be so brilliant and outsmart ourselves even if we've done like, I, I'm the queen. I'm like, oh, I did therapy that for 10 years. I'm good with that. And then all of a sudden you get a new romantic partner, you get triggered and let like that whole abandonment issues or whatever it is for you fly to the surface. So that's the method to the madness. The people that I have worked with generally are hungry to grow, but we can even get addicted to our old ways. I know you and I talk about this all the time like I had an addiction to anxiety. You might have an addiction to control. You might have an addiction to needing to succeed or overachieve or prove yourself or recognition. And so it's not even that they don't want to let go of it. It's just. It's so ingrained and it's so habitual. It can also be an identity situation. You know, well, I'm always the top performer or I'm always the boss or the captain or the lead or whatever. So it's very complex. And I think most humans generally resist change because as we know, the unknown is sort of the greatest fear that most people have. But that's why I really try to get at everything from an embodied approach, from an experiential. So we do first and then we make meaning of it second. So we have the experience. We get on a surfboard, we feel scared, we feel a lack of control, we feel tense, we feel whatever the physical experience is, and then we from that. Like, I just had a retreat in August and we went surfing four times. And I know you love to surf. And I decided to ramp up more surf on my retreats because that's where my kind of practice is. And I think it's like, exciting to people who are not just into maybe meditation and yoga and all the things. And I love adventure sports. I know you do as well. It's amazing. Every single surf session, they came back in from the aha moments. They had the, like, the one thing that these beautiful instructors would say to them. They're like, oh, my God. One woman, I remember, she's like, yeah, Wenden told me, I'm like so tense on the board and that's why I'm falling every time. She's like, I'm tense everywhere in my life. Everything I do is tense. It's like, ah, trying to control everything. And so there it's. I can get done in one second. Experientially, what, like 20 years of therapy, we can talk about it, we can think about it. And I'm not dissing it. I think there's a. You need to come out of something from every level, cognitively, emotionally, spiritually. But I think the missing link is really the embodiment piece of physically. You know, there's been a disconnect between embodied practices and a lot of these, you know, more transformational spiritual realms, leadership realms. And so that's really what I see as being the sweet spot, is bringing those worlds together and embodying transformation and then wrapping, meaning and sense making and strategy and awarenesses around that, that, oh, it's so good.

I mean I, every single time I did something there I had like massively life changing moments. And you know, I can go and do those things on my own and I still do, but at like I can still, you know, come at them and create these moments. But there's something about the container when it's intentionally created in that way and that you know that you're going to chat about them and you, there's, it's also like when you're going into the space and there is an intention around the space with other people, it is very different. So I like highly recommend that you guys go and do this because you just brought me back to so many. I'm just going to share a couple because there's one that I don't know if I actually shared with you, but the surf one I know I've shared, I've written about it in my book. I still have chapters that are going to go into another book just from these different surf experiences. Because how you show up in these different places where you are not familiar with is really how you're showing up in all of your life, maybe in places that you're not familiar with and that you are familiar with. And for me it was like I was observing how I just, just felt like I had to. Even during a surf lesson. I was like, okay, this is going to happen right away. I'm going to catch every single wave and but I'm going to up my chances of catching a wave by trying to catch every single one. So I was so exhausted because I was trying to catch every single wave that I was catching. None. Like I was, I was like half assing it. I'd like get up and fall over because I was so tired from pushing so hard to get every opportunity and be out there that nothing felt good. Like nothing was actually good because I wasn't focusing on one thing and I'm like, oh my God, this is me.

I'm trying to do everything and all.

Of it sucks because I'm not focusing on the one. So it's like that was just such a huge moment for me of like reel it in sister, and watch how far your energy can go and how beautiful this one wave can be and how good that can feel when you get to ride that wave all the way into the shore. So that was a huge moment. Then another one. I don't know if I shared this with you. I Was horseback riding and my horse tripped. Did I tell you this?

Okay, tell me again. You did, but I love the story. Tell us again.

And so thankfully we weren't like on a. On a full on run, but. And we were on the sand, but my horse like tripped and did like a tumble and I literally flipped head over heels, did a full flip and landed on my back and it knocked the wind out of me. And I was so shaken up, like, you know, massive anxiety, like mini panic attack right there because I was shook up. Like, you are flipped forward. Didn't know where I was going to land. And all of a sudden it was just like, like, oh my God. Like my worst nightmare just happened. Like your vision on a horse, right? And so I think that I was so afraid of all of my worst nightmare situations in life at that point that I was playing it like I wasn't going all out because I was afraid. So I was really missing on the all out because of the fear of what could happen or what people would say or I was just backlash or doing it wrong or failing or whatever. And I had that moment where it would have been totally acceptable if I did not get back up, up on the horse. They were like, do you want to not want to go? It's totally fine. And that would have been great because I was shaking and I was like, no. Like, the faster you get back in there, the more you're gonna experience, like, whatever. I mean, crazy at the moment. But I went on to have the most, probably top three. I think it still might be number one actually to this day, most euphoric moment I've ever had in my entire life. Running the horse full out, out on the beach in the ocean with Chris on one side, Drew Canole on the other. And I felt like a wild, like, princess. I didn't know what year it was. I just felt like it was just one of the most euphoric moments. My hair was blowing in my head. I just looked like a warrior princess. Like it was so powerful. And I felt the fear. Like it was very scary. It wasn't just like gone. I was insane fear, yet at the same time extreme euphoria and bliss. And that was just this moment of like, they coexist. Like they. So the power coexists with the fear and it was. Yeah, so that happened there.

Oh, I have so many goosebumps on my body. I'm like, oh my God, I can see you. And I remember that. And oh, thank you for sharing. And I have. It has been like such a Delight to be with you on so many of these experiences and to witnessing your growth and to be. To able. Able to hear you articulate it in such a beautiful way. I could listen to you forever and for hours with your stories and your wisdom and your example that you set about playing all in and. And being so hungry to learn and grow and being so generous with the way that you share your stories and your truth with. With all of us. So I'm just like. You just delight me to no end.

Oh, my gosh, you guys. You can see why, but it's the container that that is. That is created. And Lindsay, there is something about you that truly is. You just hold a space for people. You are playful, you're fun. You let mistakes be like, I don't know, I screw up. I feel excited about it around you.

It is fun.

Yeah. Awkward. Awkward moments, like. And that. That was really huge for me, is that people come into there and we really are all just giant children. And it's like. Like the more that you can go and be in those experiences, which I'd love to hear just your experience of, like, when you know these people who are powerful out in the world are coming in. Or maybe you don't even feel powerful out in the world yet, but you have, like, this big vision and you're nervous about coming into this group. What are some things that you do and that you've noticed that you help break people down and connect them right away. And how does that also go on to help them out in the. The quote unquote, real world?

Yeah. Such a good question. And I want to just pick up on what you said, because I think that's. When I think about what I create, that's. That's unique. And I think you just hit the nail on the head, which is I have this, like, very, I would say, somewhat unique ability to go super deep, do very intense. Like, I know Danette calls me the cave dweller because she's like, I can't believe the shadow work you do. Like, you're going in. I'm like, yeah, I'm going in. I'm, like, ruthless about it with myself, which allows me. Me to. When you talk about creating safe space, I'm a huge believer in this. This is one of the millions of reasons I love you. The deeper we have the courage to go in our own work, the more space we feel capable of holding for others. So the reason that I feel that I can hold space for people is because there's. There are very few dark corners that I haven't explored in my own inner work. And so what I know is that the gift and the beauty that's available on the other side. I've been playing with this analogy lately of like, it's like you're going down into the cenotes, like underwater, these underw underwater caves, and you go in there maybe blindly or with a coach or a guide. It's like somebody who has a flashlight and you're like, hey, let's go explore over here. But we need to go through the darkness and these dark, scary, unknown places in order to re emerge in the crystal palace, which is waiting for us on the other side, which is called our freedom and our emancipation and all of the gifts that come with that, that kind of the hero's journey of coming out on the other side with wisdom and clarity and compassion and love and joy and bliss and all these things. And so I used to be this hardcore perfectionist. And so when I hear you saying that you, like, get to fail and it's fun, I feel so excited because that took me a lot of work. And I think a lot of people out there can relate to this perfectionism of needing to be perfect. And when people come in to these experiences, they might have that feeling. Like I have many people say, well, I didn't think I was like, enough of a leader to come. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, every human's a leader. When I say I work with leaders, I'm like, I don't. Couldn't care less what your job description is. Or I happen to also attract a lot of, like, visible leaders out in the world, but it's of zero interest to me. I'm just like, excited about how people show up on. I was like, at home making my kids grilled cheese Sandwiches for like 10 years, and my career was very minimal. I didn't consider myself less of a leader than when I'm speaking on, like, global stages or coaching CEOs. I think it's how we show up on the planet. And so I think that one of the things that I try to do anyways is lead by example in my own vulnerability, in my own playfulness and my own failing, having fun with it and then creating these spaces of vulnerability, of rehumanizing ourselves. So who cares? Everybody walks in with their job title or their bank accounts or their whatever external sources of validation that. That hold meaning in other contexts. I couldn't care less about any of that. And that's thanks to my northern Ontario roots of, like, Growing up in a small town where it was just not a thing, you know, it was like, you're like a good human or not. That's what people cared about. And I feel grateful for that because I've never been impressed by money status. Even though I've traveled in like very elite circles, I find it not that interesting because I've met very like douchey people in those circles. And some of my favorite humans are like, don't have a penny to their name, and are the wisest, smartest, most interesting people. So what I do is I try to create a space of humanity, of vulnerability, of sharing. And I do all of it with this sense of playfulness and fun. And I think you will agree with me that, that the more work that I do on myself, the more that I've studied the masters of whatever, space, spirituality, transformation, I think that the more evolved we get as humans, the less seriously we take life. You know, I think it's a sign of mastery when you can approach all of life with humility, with humor, with curiosity. Like I always say, the more I know, the more I know that I know nothing. I have no idea. I have no advice for anyone. I will never tell anyone what I can give you, like ideas. I can show you a path that worked for me and many other people. But that sense of humility, of childlike curiosity, of playfulness, of wonder, of humor, I think of like the Dalai Lama and Nelson Mandela. People that have been these profound leaders, they always just have this sparkle in their eye of this glimmer of childlike curiosity and wonder. And for me, that's. I just love to have fun and play and I like to create very safe spaces. But I don't like, try to create safe spaces. I'm not sitting there. Okay, guys, I'm gonna create a safe space right now. I just try to embody my own vulnerability, my own, and invite people. I actually think that the thing that I do the most, and this is the feedback I get most often, is I just friggin love humans. And so they show up, up. I don't care what their story is, where they've been. I'm like, I just friggin love you. You're amazing. You know, if you're on top of the world, you're at your rock bottom.

I'm just like, I've just always had.

This like obsessive love of humans. I joke now. I'm like, I don't always like people, but I love the humans, you know, And I think that's the essence of it. I just, like, love humans, and I love the journey. I love the courage of people showing up and being real and being vulnerable. I think it's, like, gangster. I think it's so badass, you know? I'm like, just cry. Do those things, Feel those feelings. Have fun. Be playful. Drum in the rain. Do whatever it is you want to do. I just think it's beautiful. The human experience is, to me, is the most beautiful thing on the planet.

Yeah, you definitely have been the person who's just, like, in my head, like, let her rip. Like, let her wet. Yeah, just do it. Like, let it in and for real. I feel so blessed to have had these experiences, and I want more of them. It's funny. Like, you can go out in the world for a while, and you kind of start knowing when you need it again. And you're like, okay. Because for a while there was like, okay, I need to, like, go be. Use all these things and go. And now I'm like, okay, I think I might need to go be wild again.

Yes. I will never forget the image of you drumming like the wild warrior princess that you are in the pouring rain. I have never seen you more. I get tears in my eyes just talking about it. I've never seen you more in your elements, more aligned, more on fire, more empowered. And I've seen you in many beautiful empowered contexts. But that wildness in you is so spectacular, and I know that it fuels you and feeds you for all the ways that you lead out in the world. So, yeah, it's such a delight and a privilege to witness you.

Oh, my goodness. Well, this was, like, so divine for me today. I love how things you guys are. Our Internet connection on the last, like, one that we tried to do was not working, and it's so perfect that it didn't work because today was the most perfect day for this conversation. So, Lindsay, I'm so grateful for you. How can people be a part of this? Because now everyone's like, oh, my gosh, I literally need to go to this tomorrow.

So my website is aliveandawake.com I'm on Instagram @lindsay alive lindsay with an ay. And on Facebook at Lindsey Sikornick. So reach out to me. Send me a dm. The information's on the website. And, yeah, just reach out. I love to hear from people. If you have any questions, thoughts, comments. I have some fun kind of videos and things from Pastor Trees. You can come and check it out. And I have an amazing video that I just did. For my last retreat. That is a really beautiful kind of summary of the types of things that we do. So definitely send me a DM and I would love to hear from you and hopefully see some of you out on these beautiful, wild adventures.

You guys go find her, follow her, do all of the things. And you know what we love to do for our guests is to tag her on Instagram and let her know what your biggest takeaway was, or if there's something that she opened up for you. It's always so nice to hear how this particular podcast and her wisdom impacted your world. So definitely give her a tag and let her know what your biggest takeaway was. You guys know that I love to reshare your stories and until next time, earn your happy. Bye everyone.

It.