848. Gabby Bernstein On Addressing The Stigma And Shame Around Depression And Anxiety

Our purpose is never something we have to go find. It's in us. It's the source of inspiration. And so when we're depressed and anxious and addicted, we're blocking that inspiration. We're blocking that life force.

Welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of Light Pink, best selling author, three time fitness world champion, and I'm a crazy, multi passionate entrepreneur. My journey has taken me everywhere, from being a broke waitress, barista, retails, a associate and personal trainer with massive anxiety and no belief in myself, to later becoming a multimillionaire in love with my life. In 2007, my husband and I lost everything. We found ourselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. At rock bottom, we had no ideas and I had no education to fall back on. This is when I found personal development and learned everything I could about business. Not by choice, I, but because I realized no one was coming to save me. The conversations on this podcast are going to let you know that you're not alone and that we all feel like we don't know what we're doing. We're going to give you the tools to help you face your fears, take action, start your business, and grow those massive dreams that are keeping you up at night. It's time to create a life that you can't hide from and put so much on the line that your higher self is forced to come out. You're going to stop waiting for someone to approve of you and you're going to anoint yourself. Because I'm obsessed about building businesses that.

Give women a platform.

I want to feature you. So if you text the word podcast to 310-496-8363, you can get your questions answered on our Q and A segment along with a shout out. And if you rate, review and subscribe to this podcast, we're choosing someone every month month to get coached and featured on our show. It just might be you. So let's get started.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the show.

If you have followed me for a.

While, you probably know that I had coached with Gabby Bernstein years ago, went.

To her Spirit Junkie masterclass and got certified and also she forwarded my book.

A Tribe Called Bliss.

So she was definitely somebody that I.

Learned from in the past, in the beginning of my journey, and have continued to learn from through my entire life. And here we are again learning from her again.

This was one of my favorite podcasts.

That I've done in a really long time, probably because I personally got coached in it and it really helped so.

So, you guys, for over 16 years, Gabby Bernstein has been transforming lives, including her own.

She's a number one New York Times.

Bestselling author and she's penned nine books, including some of these that you probably recognize. I've read all of them. The Universe has yous Back, Super Attractor, and her latest, Happy Days. In her weekly podcast, Dear Gabby, she offers up real time coaching, straight talk and conversations about personal growth and spirituality with unique and inspiring guests. When she started hosting intimate conversations with.

20 people in her New York City.

Apartment is how it all started. Gabby has grown into speaking to tens of thousands in sold out venues across the world.

She's also been featured on Super Soul.

Sunday and she is known as the Next generation Thought leader by Oprah Winfrey. So, you guys, I'm so incredibly excited that she is back on the podcast again. I love having her on every single time.

And no matter where you're at, no.

Matter if you you are in a place where you are thriving or you are somewhere where maybe you're feeling really stuck, maybe you're feeling like there are some dark days right now, I'm telling you, this podcast is going to be.

So huge for you. And not just that. This book is incredible. So let's get started. Gabby, I'm so excited to have you back on the show. How are you?

I'm doing great, babe. I'm happy to be with you. I love you.

I feel like we connect at big life milestones for you and I'm really excited because you have a new book out. But I feel like this book is coming at a different place, a different time in your life. So was this a different experience for you writing this one?

Definitely. I knew I needed to write this book in 2016 when I remembered a dissociated trauma from my childhood. So I'd been living for 36 years with this unresolved traumatic memory that I didn't truly even remember. My body remembered, my nervous system remembered, but I didn't remember. So Remembering that in 2016 was the beginning of my awareness of my trauma recovery. I think, you know, getting sober at 25, I started my trauma recovery, but I didn't know why I was getting sober. I didn't know why I was an addict. You know, I didn't understand those ways that I acted out. And so this was the beginning of my awareness of my deeper recovery. And I knew right away when that memory came back that I was going to have to write a book about this experience. And I also knew that it was not Going to be a book that would come out until I was on the other side. Because this isn't the kind of topic you can write about while you're still in the midst of the turmoil and the crisis. And it had to be written from a place of recovery, because if I'd written it from a place of trauma, then it would have just been a traumatizing book to read, or it would have been a re traumatizing event for myself. So writing this book from a place of recovery gives me the power to be an example for others and to even energetically transmit this belief and this faith that recovery from our past is available to all of us.

Was that something that was obvious to you when it started to come out? Were you like, wow, so many of the things that I'm dealing with, whether it was like, anxiety or fear, was it manifesting in different ways? Was it all rooting from that? Were you able to tie it back? How did that work for you?

I remembered my childhood trauma in a dream, and then when I woke up that morning, I was like, no fucking way am I ever going to talk about this or think about this ever again. And then days later in therapy, I talk about it in the book. I write about this in the book. But a few leading things that my therapist and I started talking about led me to just fully accept, embrace, and truly remember past experiences from my childhood. And as soon as I remembered, I was like, oh, that's why you were a cocaine addict. Oh, that's why you're a workaholic. Oh, that's why you have an anxiety disorder that's unresolved. Oh, that's why you have every PTSD symptom on the planet. So the answer is yes. It just explained everything for me, and in a way, that was a great relief. But it also was terrifying because now I had to face it all and deal with it.

Let's say we didn't have the dream, right? I think there's probably a lot of people who are walking around with trauma. They don't even understand why they're doing the things that they're doing. And I think that sometimes even when you say that, like, it triggered a bit of a fear in me, like, oh, my God, what if there's something, like, I don't want to know about and it might come up? Or is there a way for me to resolve some of the things that I feel like, are these blaring things that keep haunting me over and over without potentially having a dream? Or how do you confront that. How do you figure that out?

This book is that. This book is the answer to that question. So in the book from the Get Go, I start inviting the reader to really look at the ways that they are triggered, what they're triggered by how they respond to those triggers. And then if there's any experiences from their past that might resemble these feelings and emotions that they live in their adult life. So from the get go, you're invited. And by the way, you could read this book and not do any of the exercises. If it doesn't feel. If you're not ready to go there, just read the book and then come back and come back and dip in and dip out when you're ready. Because it can be a lot at once. But in that first two chapters, we start looking closely at some of the wounds and the triggers and understanding why we run and the ways that we. That we act out and the ways that we protect ourselves. And so that's a gentle process that begins from the get go. And then throughout the rest of the book, I very gently start to address some of the ways that we anesthetize and avoid those traumas, whether they be big T traumas like sexual abuse or violence or incest or rape or anything like that, or loss of a parent when you're young or whatever it is, or a small T trauma like being bullied or that's not necessarily. Sometimes that could be a big T trauma too. But small T trauma could be told you're stupid by your teacher. Or these seemingly small events in life that actually dictate the rest of our life because they give us this belief system of not being good enough, not being lovable. They affect our nervous system. They affect the way that our neural pathways wire. You know, it just. Everything is affected. And so this book is an undoing of the patterns from the past so that you can become free in the present. And it is a guided path through my experience and my journey. So the answer, it's funny, when you do these book interviews and people ask these questions, you're like, well, the answer is the book straight up.

Like, no, really, it is.

If you're walking around with anxiety, this is your book. If you're walking around with any, any low level or high level depression, this is your book. If you're walking around with any addictive patterns that you want to resolve, this is your book. If you're walking around feeling like, is this it? Like, could life be better? I want to kind of let go of some of these patterns. This is your book, but it's not your book. If you don't want to look at the patterns, you have to be willing to not necessarily show up and do the work right away, but you have to be willing to look and to be willing to kind of like open the door and say, hey, what's behind that door? What's behind that door?

Right now I'm so interested what you found, like, who you really are without those things that so much of our identities are wrapped into. Like, I have anxiety. I'm so depressed. I have this thing. I have this trauma in so much of who we are, what we do, how we think is wrapped up in those things. Did you ever find yourself like, oh, my gosh. Well, my anxiety keeps me a high performer. My anxiety makes me go and do these things. And did you ever find yourself afraid of who you are without it? And who did you find Gabby is. Now that you have really learned how to kind of like, regulate those emotions?

In the book, I talk about what would happen if I let go of these patterns. Cause I'll lose my edge. But. But what I've found is that my edges have softened. I didn't lose my edge. I've just softened my edges. And so I can do everything, even with so much more power and so much more grace and so much more consistency and steadiness. And it's a blessing. It's such a huge blessing to be able to live free from those patterns. I study something called internal family systems therapy, and I'm in the level one training of it now, and I write about it in book. There's a whole chapter about ifs in the book. And it's that we have all these different parts of ourselves. And some of those parts are the anxious parts and the. The overly productive parts and the workaholic parts. And while those parts may be so extreme, they've had good roles, right? Like, for you and I. Like, they let us write a lot of books and create a lot in the world and be, you know, super achievers in some cases that have been really beneficial to the world. But we don't want to let those parts take on extreme roles. And so it's. It was not that I let go of those parts or tried to change who I was. It's that I became less extreme in those roles.

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I so feel that I'm feeling really confronted again with. It's funny how you can get tools and they can work really well once you're in one situation, but you go into a whole new situation and they can come up all over again. So I'm being really confronted with anxiety right now. And sometimes we can, like, overanalyze, especially if we've been in personal development for a long time. We can almost like, God, just be like, okay, yep, I see it. This is what I'm supposed to do. This is how we do it. And I think just talking to you, I'm realizing that I'm probably not taking enough time to sit and actually figure out what the real underlying thing is. Instead of going right for the tool, it's almost like I'm going for the tool and I'm like, I don't think this is working right now.

This is your book, my love. This is your book. Because it's going right for the tool is fine. That's better than going right for the drink. But going right for the tool can also be another avoidance tactic to get above the unresolved trauma, if you want to use the word, or the unresolved emotional disturbance. So if you have you mentioned you have some space in your life right now and you know, you have a little bit of time. My advice, I'm going to start turning this into my podcast, Dear Gabby, where I start.

I love it. I love this. Let's do it.

But my dear Gabby, for you would be to do this book right now. And you got me on speed dial, which is helpful. So you can always text me if you need support. Because when I say do this book, read it, you know, and when you feel called, practice some of the principles. Be very gentle with yourself. Don't feel. Force yourself to be like a overachiever. But even just looking closely at some of those triggers and the wounds and the ways that they respond and the ways that you react is a first step. And then, of course, there are methods in the book for self regulation. So there's countless lessons in this book for how you can start to support yourself with this anxiety while doing the deeper work. Because it's twofold, right? You don't want to, like, do the Deeper work and not have the support system in place to feel your way through it or to regulate your energy or to calm yourself. So it's all in there. It's like, okay, let's take a look and then let's place your right hand on your heart and your left hand on your belly and let's do this breath exercise and let's practice this meditation and let's do some tapping. And it's like countless, countless practices that are right there to hold you in a supportive, almost like a blanket while you sip your coffee and go deeper.

I'm definitely feeling. Well, I'll do it. I'll let you know how it goes. But it's such a blocking energy to have these things. It actually feels like a suffocating of who you are. I love feeling like I have access to my downloads and my higher self and God and universe and all of the things. And it really is. When you have that, it's like a very. It makes you internalize things and just feel very. Almost like self absorbed. Like it's hard for me. Like, get out of that headspace, you know?

Of course. Yeah. And I think that anxiety is, can. Can become all consuming anxiety. So first and foremost, just be really gentle with yourself and just be really respectful of the anxiety. And. And what are you noticing about that anxiety? What are you noticing about it? Tell me anything I've noticed in the morning.

It's just like frantic. It's like, what do I need to do? I need to make this a success. I don't know where to start or who to talk to or where to go. And it, it just feels like very circular. It's not going anywhere. It's just like very frantic and it's making me feel like I'm not doing enough.

Okay. And it's circular. Does it have, like a place in your body that it lives?

My solar plexus. Like my stomach.

Okay. Yeah, that's very common. Yeah. And does it have anything it needs to say to you?

It's definitely about disappointing people and having raised money and like having all of these very powerful women involved in disappointing them.

So what do you know about it? What do you know about this anxiety?

I know it's familiar and it's always here and that when I think of it this way, I'm just kind of like, well, I feel like it's here to keep me going. Okay.

So it has an important role as well. Beautiful. Let's say thank you to that important part of it. Thanks.

Important part. Okay.

We can thank it for its service.

Yeah.

Very nice. Okay. And what does it need?

It feels like it needs conversation and friendship and support and a mentor.

It needs conversation, support, and a mentor. Beautiful. Does it know that you, Laurie, this your higher self, the woman who's the teacher on the stage, the writer of the books, does this anxiety know that you're here?

Not really. It feels like little Lori is here. Little Lori, not accepted by people.

Right. Okay. So the anxiety is possibly protecting little Lori.

Yeah, for sure.

So if you were to lean into anything that you would want to say to little Lori, you, Laurie, adult Laurie resourced Lori, what would you say to her? Maybe take a moment to just breathe into that.

I would say that she's really funny and lovable and she needs to figure out how to access that and let that come out around just anyone like, to just honestly learn how to be herself and that would solve it.

So you would say to her, yourself is good enough. It's a really compassionate thing to say, huh?

Yeah.

So let's start there and just getting into a pattern of just talking to little Lori more frequently. If you're open, you know, get a Bible. Right. And maybe just for a moment to really close this properly, is putting your right hand on your heart and your left hand on your belly and just close your eyes and just visualize her. What does she look like?

Oh, she's cute.

I bet. She's so cute. And she's in this circle and she's been feeling all these feelings and in your own words, maybe just say to her what you just said to me. She can be herself in your own words, whatever it is that you feel called to say to her.

You're amazing, you're hilarious, you are powerful, and you can allow that, and that's okay and acceptable. And people like you when you're you.

Yes. Can you let her know that you're.

Here for her and I'm so here for you?

What does that look like? Is there like a visual that comes to mind when you see her, that you're there for her?

I just hugged her. I keep wanting to access people, like friends, mentors, conversations, because I can isolate when I'm in that space. So supporting, like reaching out to people and just being able to verbalize because I'm such a verbal processor.

So I'm here for you. So you say that to her, but you can also say, and I also can reach out for help for us. And I'm here to get us help. I'm here to get you help.

Yeah. And I'm here to get you help.

And I have a lot of resources for you.

Yeah.

Got Gabby Bernstein on speed dial.

Yep.

Happy days in front of me. I got a lot of resources for you, little Lori. Yeah.

Well, this podcast just turned into an amazing session for me. Thank you. I love that. I'm like, how did we end up here? I love it.

First of all, thank you for going there. And I only would go there with someone that I know I have the buy in with, is willing to go there and has the ability to open up like that, but thank you. It was beautiful. So, you know, just to wrap that up for you, I think that just being in a daily dialogue with little Lori and just continue to ask her what she needs and then in that centered place when you find yourself, because the anxiety is a protector, anxiety is protecting you from having to let little Lori's insecurities come out.

Oh, yeah.

Little lorries. Insecurities are what in ifs we'd call exiled parts. They're kind of just like locked the under lock and key.

Yeah.

So the anxiety, that spinning and that swirling and that circle that you said is just a form of protecting yourself from facing the exile. But what if little Lori could just come to adult resourced you and say, I need some help. The whole system could calm down.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just now.

Yeah, I feel totally different.

Great.

That was real fast too.

It's funny and I'll just be completely honest. Like, I have certain people, especially mentors, who can actually also trigger anxiety because the not enoughness, you're definitely one of them. So I feel comfortable right now. But that's been an amazing realization for me is it's not like I'm not enough, but it definitely triggers when I'm around powerful women. And it's funny because they're the ones that I want to have the conversations with the most. Right. They're the ones that I'm like. My heart is yearning to have these like high level conversations that spiral up and it will get really triggered around that and block me from what I feel like My heart's desire is to connect with these women and have these meaningful in depth conversations. So that also gets triggered in that arena where that just really helped me even just feel calm around you.

Well, also, I think, first of all, thank you for your transparency and your vulnerability and your authenticity. And it's why I love you so much. It's why you're such a transformational teacher, your ability to speak your truth. But what I also want to acknowledge is that the most powerful Woman that can support little Lori is yourself, with a capital S. I wasn't expecting to.

Cry on this Gabby, but here we go.

That's how it goes with Gabby. Yeah, it's you. And when you get that and you practice that and you let little Lori know that she can rely on that higher self, that God within you, that undamaged Lori, then, yeah, sure, of course you can reach out for help and you can do. But, you know, you have it within you.

Do you have anything like this Gabby, where people maybe, you know, and I think especially with what I'm doing right now, where when you're going into a new place, you're reaching for something higher, or you have a big goal, or you're pivoting into something brand new and you have to go into a realm of. Let's just say, even when you were first getting on shows or different talk shows, or maybe you were getting into a realm of people who intimidated you or who you felt were your mentors, did you ever get triggered or anxious or feel blocked? Like, were you able to be Gabby right away or what did that feel like and what did that look like?

Of course, you know, I spent so many years in and out of this sort of perception of who I thought I should be, and even in the midst of acting like that, it didn't mean that I wasn't also tapped into who I am. Right. Like, it's like, you may go there, but you also are you, and you're fucking killing it, you know, as the truth of who you are. So. But when we make an idol of anyone, then we're ultimately kind of screwed because, one, we're not going to really be grounded in the seat of who we are. And two, that idol in some way, shape or form is going to disappoint us. And so when that idol falls, we fall with them. That's why I wrote a whole book actually called you'd are the Guru. Really is probably my mantra in many ways.

What do you think the differences that you've experienced are the difference between depression and anxiety? What are the thoughts we're thinking and what are some of the. I know that you talk a lot in your book about some different tools that we can use for those things, especially if we first confront and go through the book and figure out what those traumas are.

I think depression and anxiety have a similar diagnosis. And I know from my own experience. Experience. When I was diagnosed with depression, it was postpartum depression, but I. But it was also manifesting as postpartum Anxiety and insomnia. So what I learned from my psychiatrist was that they're the same diagnosis, that postpartum anxiety is a part of postpartum depression. And so when we have these unresolved experiences from our past, they create these habits in our nervous system. Our brain functions in a certain way when it's traumatized or when it's activated or triggered. So when we have the repeated experience of those triggers over and over, we get into what can be a state of hypervigilance, which, which you might refer to as anxiety. And then it can also take the form of depression because anxiety is exhausting and it's overwhelming and it's all consuming and then it can become frozen and we, you know, so the anxiety can put us into motion and then the, the anxiety can start to just make us freeze because we feel so stuck in that feeling or we don't want to go further. And so it manifests in so many different forms. My belief is that there are times when psychiatric medication is absolutely necessary. And I actually write about that in the book How Medication Saved my Life with the postpartum diagnosis. And if that's something someone needs, I'm a big, big, big believer in it with the right psychiatric diagnosis. And then there's times when work like the diagnosis and that medication can't come without the work because then you're just going to be sort of numbing out temporarily. The real work is about giving your mind, your body, your brain, your spirit the opportunity to reprogram. In this book I write about these life changing therapeutic processes. Emdr, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's a fantastic therapy for reprocessing unresolved traumatic events, unresolved phobias, anxiety disorders, whatever it might be, even just like patterns that we don't love living with. I write about somatic experiencing se which is a practice for really it's a body based therapy practice with the premise that the trauma is stored in the body. And when we let the body speak, when we let the body release almost to the point of tremors, right. That we can actually tell our brain that this is safe now. And then I of course ifs, which is what I just did with you, the internal family systems therapy. Really getting to know those younger parts and let the self lead those younger parts. And so introducing these modalities. Tapping emotional Freedom technique which I've been teaching for years, meditation. All the tools that are in this book are therapeutic practices with a spiritual foundation. And they are transformational. And my intention for writing about all of them through my lens was to just almost be like an introduction to the reader, to say, okay, here's my story, here's what happened. You're going to identify with something here. Like there's going to be something in here that you identify with. Even if your story is completely different than mine, there's something in here you're going to identify with. And I'm going to introduce you to all the methods that worked for me and I'm going to give you practices immediately that you can do to start to self regulate. Like some of the things that I'll share with you on the show today, but I'm also going to give you a very beautiful translation and demystify these practices that changed my life and then give you the resources to go look into them more for yourself.

There are so many challenges to business that I don't want starting to be.

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So much of what happens is that people are so unaware of all the modalities and the practices that we have that are out there. They're unaware that they're available often for free, or they're often available at a discount, or they're available through workshops rather than, you know, private, expensive coaches or therapists. And that there's resources and when We've never lived in a time where there's been more of a collective trauma than now. I mean, I don't know the there's. My ancestors lived through the Holocaust, so we can. There's plenty of times when trauma has been collected. But let's just speak for the U.S. right now. You know, obviously it's a global trauma, but for those of us who are living in the United States, we're living through something we've never seen before. And this collective trauma needs a lot of support. So my prayer is that this book opens doors for readers to become more conscious and aware of the things they can do for themselves and the ways that other practitioners and healers who are, frankly, just human angels, the way that those human angels can show up for them.

Hey, I have to take a quick.

Break because I want to tell you.

About a podcast that I absolutely love. And if you love this podcast, I'm.

Telling you, you're going to love this girl. So many of you tell me all.

The time that you totally vibe with, earn your happy because of how real we are and what it actually takes and feels like to chase your big dreams. And that's what we always talk about. We talk about leveling up in your business, in your work, through your Mental blocks. And we really support you to get you to where you want to go by being so real with our stories. As you know, while building Light Pink.

I've been navigating a whole lot of emotions and really making it a point.

To share exactly where I'm at in the journey with all of the ups and downs. And I really feel drawn toward other women and female podcasters who are doing the same thing out there because that's what actually works. So if you like this podcast, you're gonna love my friend Keisha Fitzgerald podcast called Empower Her. How great is that title? Her podcast is growing like crazy because she's so freaking high vibe and fun, but she's also the type of woman.

Who isn't afraid to pull back the.

Curtain and be really transparent about her journey, building a business, chasing big dreams, and share with you the tactical tools that help you get from where you are now to where you want to go in your life, career and relationships. She's got incredible guests on her show, but also as a super high energy person, she's got saucy short episodes that she calls pep talks that will light a little fire under your bed booty to help you do the damn thing. And I think you're going to love her. Find Keisha's podcast wherever you get your podcast and search Empower Her. Keisha will be the hype girl and virtual bestie you didn't even know you needed. Let's get back to the show.

Do you have any theories kind of around with what the last two years have, either with the space or the time allowed us to kind of like sit in some things that maybe would not have come up? Have you had any thoughts around kind of what you think has happened with the collective trauma or suffering? Is it what happened the past two years or is it because the two years feel more like they have forced us to look at our life and how we're living?

I think that if you want to focus on some of the beautiful moments of this experience, living through pandemic, I would say one, it's collectively cracked people open to recognizing that they had two choices. One, continue to numb out, pretend like nothing's happening, shop, eat, drink, or wake the fuck up and start to look a little closer and start to read some personal growth books, start to listen to shows like our podcasts, or start to get into therapy and look a little closer at the unresolved patterns. Because we all have unresolved patterns from our past that make us uncomfortable in the present. But when things are kind of normal around us. We can find a lot of ways to just sort of numb out from those patterns. But when everything is taken from us and our safety and our security and our comforts are kind of pulled away, we're faced with ourselves.

Yeah, there we are. Everywhere we go, there I am.

And I'm with me wherever I go. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that's a great thing. If there's anything that we can take from this, it's that we can look more closely at ourselves, that we can use it as a learning device, that we can seek counsel, that we can open up our consciousness to support systems. Just like you've been saying, you know, I want to reach out for more help and that we can go deeper on our own personal growth and that we can come out the other side far more resilient than when we enter. At the beginning of 2020, I was an entirely different person than I am now. And I wrote Happy days in 2020. Wow. I wrote, yeah.

Have you had to go back and, like, change anything or tweak things? Because you're like, oh, I can't even. I don't even want to put that out. Cause I'm not feeling it. Or are you very much like, that was meant to be written down? After you write, I'm going to read.

You something from the intro. Really? Because I think this kind of answers the story. But I didn't. I did actually change a lot, but it wasn't related to 2020 particularly. It was related to, like, the stories of my life. But here's just the first introduction. Introduction. The truth about this book. We're anxious for you, Gabby, said my publisher, after reading the first pass of the manuscript. It feels too vulnerable. They continued, you're revealing one difficult moment after the next. You're not showing your true strength. My ability to be this vulnerable is my true strength. I responded, wow. So I just got chills. I shared that. And while that is the truth and that that is what I wrote, I did take their advice. Because some of what I was sharing was just almost like, if you ask if there's anything I edited, it was almost that I had to soften the edges a bit. Because when I really did reveal the truth, people that were the closest to me, my publishers who have worked with me for a decade, my. My partner, my husband, you know, my friends, my therapist, were kind of like, whoa. Like, we didn't even really know all this was going on. And there was a part of me Speaking on behalf of my part, that was like, yeah, this was going on, you know, like, how dare you not, like, really honor me for my path, Right? And then there was another part of me that was like, this was all going on. But you were at the same time, and this is really important for you right now, Laurie, to hear. You were going through, Gabby, all this chaos and this trauma and these anxiety disorders and these meltdowns, but you were also thriving and serving and showing up and writing books and getting on stage with your authentic power and doing your best. And so I think my publisher's biggest concern was, like, oh, no. Are your readers gonna think that, like, you're a fraud or that, you know, because you're showing how fucked up shit was? And so I was like, okay, you're not wrong. I have to make sure I balance this with really acknowledging how strong I was even in the midst of. Of that chaos. And so that's what I want to reflect back to you. Like, you might be going through some chaotic moment right now, but you're also this incredibly transformational being of light who has served and supported so many souls, and you can be doing both.

That's very powerful. We can get so in that, which I'm sure, especially when you're writing and you're kind of getting in that lane and you're like, this is what I want to write about, and this is what I'm talking about. But you can get very singularly focused. And it does take that moment of like, oh, this is gonna take a little work to pull in the other side, this thing that's still existing. But I'm so focused on this other thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm kind of just learning, you know, the older I get. And it's funny, because my whole life's work has revolved around this, but the bringing in of other people, community, tribe, family, friends. What role do you think other people play in your healing? Even though I know there's so much work that has to be done on your own, how do you think that that kind of helps or locks it in?

There's a few major characters in this book. There's Gabby, and there's my husband, and there's my friends who are named. You know, their names are in there. And there's my therapist, and I say with, you know, plural. And, yeah, I've been joking around with my primary therapist. I'm like, who do you think is going to play you in the movie?

Does she get to pick?

She can maybe pick. Maybe she'll have her pick. We'll see. And it's quite cool because when I mention all these different characters, it's because this journey of recovery wouldn't exist with all the players, without all the players. You know, without my husband and my shrink and my therapist and my EMDR therapist and my best friends Alisa and Jamie and Robin and Jenny. You know, it's just like that recovery would not exist without the human angels that were there to support me and guide me, and even the books that I read and the trainings that I took, and those are all spiritual guides in human form.

What if there's somebody listening right now who doesn't feel like they have those people or access to them or where do they get started in building, you know, like a supportive network of people to also help them on their healing?

Read the book. Because first, I can be that for them. I actually write this book to the reader as if, look, I don't want to be like uber codependent with all my readers, but I want the reader to know that I can be their first. Their first support system.

You were totally that for me, like, for probably two years before I had that system in place and really great friends and definitely your lectures and podcasts. So I always talk about that. If you don't have that yet, there are absolutely kind of. I call them like online mentors or mentors from afar that just can really help you and be that voice in your head for the beginning until you can get, you know, until you can create those relationships. So it's for sure true.

And I'm glad that came up. I'm glad that you're bringing that up because, I mean, I always say that, like, Wayne Dyer and Marianne Williamson and Louise Hay were all my mentors before they became my friends. Because their books. Their books and their lectures and their audios and the meditations were in my ear and in my bookshelf and on my. Next to my bedside. You know, like, listen, I go to bed with thousands of people every single night.

It's a party, guys.

It's funny. You have to use that as an outtake. So the truth is, is, like, you know, I have this access to these folks in a way that I am going to be unapologetic about wanting people to use me. The energy that I transmuted into this book, into each page, into each reprint, as a resource to feel, number one, that they're not alone, number two, that there is a support system. And it's this author that's here that's saying here's a journey that I went on that you can take from. And there's methods and there's resources and there's resources, links, free resources. There's just. I'm not saying here's the story, good luck. I'm saying here's the story. This is the beginning of your journey and let me show you how to get there. And I don't leave it open ended. You know, I give the resources. Like, if you love this therapy that I'm talking about, go to this link and you can find out more. And making sure that there's affordable resources in there because a lot of people listening, you'd be like, well, you know, screw you. I don't have the ability to pay for this or that. And there are affordable resources out there for sure.

I'm so excited to read it. What do you think the role of creating purpose for ourselves just plays in being kind of the opposite of maybe depression or anxiety. Like, do you think people without purpose, can we be mentally sound and healthy, or do we need to be creating our purpose?

I believe that when we start to do the personal growth work that I mentioned in this book and that I mentioned in all of my books, we start to really dismantle all the blocks that are in the presence of the truth of who we are. And ultimately we dismantle the blocks that are in the presence of our purpose. Our purpose is never something we have to go find. It's in us, it's what lights us up. It's the source of inspiration. And it manifests in lots of different forms. But purpose is truly just living inspired, living in spirit. And so when we're depressed and anxious and addicted, we're blocking that inspiration, we're blocking that life force. And so as we start to do this type of work where we start to dismantle, you read a book like this and you follow these principles, you'll definitely be 10,000 steps closer to your purpose. Because it's not getting it, it's remembering it. And your purpose manifests at times in careers and books and whatever it is. But that's not your purpose. Your purpose is to live an inspired life. Your purpose is to express inspiration, to be in spirit. And so the work isn't to go get anything, it's to undo the patterns that have been blocking you from it.

There's been a lot of times in my life where, you know, you go through periods where you're like, I really like myself. Like, I like the alone time with me. I actually enjoy being alone a lot Like, I would to, like, love more alone time with myself. And then there are times where, like, even right now, I'm just observing because I am kind of in that anxious state with what I'm doing, which I'm gonna read your book, that you almost feel like that person is lost. Like, you're like, nope, this time she's gone. Like, she's just not coming back. But it's a good reminder that that's always with us. Like that inspired person who is underneath the layers. She's totally not gone. She's just being blocked by something. But sometimes it can feel bleak. You can have those, like, streaks where you're not getting inspired. You're not feeling like God or universe talk to you. Like, it's just kind of blank. Nobody's there.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, anxiety, depression can really numb that source. When I was living through the torture, I want to say, of insomnia and anxiety and all of the agoraphobia, all the things I experienced with the postpartum experience, listen, I'm going to be real. I had suicidal depression at that time. My source of inspiration was nowhere to be found. But I never thought that it was gone. I just knew it was masked. I knew it was hiding. I knew it wasn't available to me when I was in that crisis. And that sometimes, sometimes we're in crisis, and when we're in crisis, sometimes that is when a medicated path is the answer, or that is when an intervention and treatment is an answer, or whatever it is, crisis occurs. And in crisis, you are going to feel very disconnected from that source. But that isn't a time to stop praying, because when you pray, you suspend temporarily all the disconnect, and you even for a split second, reconnect to that source within you. And that's enough.

When you were in that place, because obviously you went and got help or you got what you needed. What did that look like in that moment of asking for help? Or what was the gut reaction? Was it like, just pray? Or was it like, go get help, whatever that looks like? Or what was the first instinct when you were in that place?

In the book I write about, especially a chapter called Don't Call Me Crazy. And when I read it out loud for my audiobook read, I cried.

Yeah, I cried.

And you'll. When you hear. When you listen to the read, you'll hear me quivering, my voice quivering. And we left that in because it is that impactful. When I went through that experience, I was really held back in my path to recovery because of the. A lot of the stigmas around mental health and in my world, particularly in the wellness space, the stigmas around medication, because everybody in my world, including me, I was part of the problem for a long time. I would tell people that were like, I'm depressed, I'm anxious. I'd say, oh, meditate. Here's a meditation. When you're actually going through a biochemical condition, meditation isn't the answer in that moment. Meditation, maybe, and medication, right? So when you're in a crisis, when you're in a biochemical condition that is affecting your well being, your life, your livelihood, the stigma can kill you if you don't get help. And I went four months without help, the right help, because I was calling the shaman and I was doing the meditation and I was taking the tinctures and I was doing the acupuncture and I was doing the yoga and the whatever, and none of that shit fucking worked. When my brain was having a biochemical reaction to my postpartum experience that is extraordinarily common, and it goes far too often undiagnosed. And I've witnessed friends and contemporaries of mine in my space, in the wellness space, you know, lose all this weight loss, lose their hair, you know, being at events with them where their legs are shaking under the table because they're having postpartum anxiety, but they're not addressing it because they don't want to take medication. And I write about the medication in the book, and I write about the shaming that I felt from my industry and from people and specific people, and even not direct shame, but like, indirect shame, you know, of, like, oh, well, didn't you try some melatonin? And, like, you, you know, and so, yeah, I had to come through and forgive a lot of folks and also, most importantly, recognize that God gave me postpartum depression so that I could be a voice to shift the shame and the stigma for other spiritual women and other women who may be on a path that's, like, only holistic. And to recognize that that's not the only answer, that God is in the antidepressant, that God is in that sleep aid, if you need it for a period of time, that God is working through a psychiatrist. And like anything, things can be misguided. Spiritual practices can be misguided. They are up far too often. You know, psychiatrists can be misguided, but it's about being in the place of recognizing that when you're in alignment with your truth, you will find the practitioners and the healers and the guides that are going to be of the highest good for you.

When you leaned into it and you were like, okay, I need this extra help right now. When you had started it, was it for you like a, oh, yes, this is the right answer, or did your old mindset try to creep in and be like, I don't know if this is it, or did you immediately kind of know that it was.

Oh, Lord. I avoided it for months. I mean, I did not want to accept the diagnosis. I did not even consider psychiatric support. I kept doing the meditation. I kept doing the yoga. And finally, it was my therapist who had to intervene because what happened for me, and I write about this story. I tell a story in the book about how I never missed a talk in my life. I've been a motivational speaker for 16 years, really 20 years, I've been speaking publicly, and I've never missed a talk in my life. I don't cancel. I show up. And when I was going through this depression, I had a talk for Hay House and my publisher, and I went to the city, and I'd been. Hadn't slept in months, and I was literally be up all night, oh, my God. Having anxiety attacks and then having to breastfeed the next day. This is really the worst experience of my life. And I didn't sleep the night before, and I woke up that morning, and I just. When I woke up, I was there, still awake in the morning. And I sent an email to the event planner at Hay House, and I said, I'm having a problem. I can't make it. And that, for me, was my bottom. Everybody bottoms out in different ways, but I was like, I've never missed a talk in 20 years. I remember calling my therapist that morning and saying, like, oh, I need to talk. And she. At that point, she got on the phone with my husband, and she was like, I'm intervening. You have to call psychiatrist today. You're having a biochemical condition. This isn't something that you can fix with meditation. We got to get further support. And thankfully, you know, we have to hit bottom to wake up. And I was able that day. So once that bottom hit, officially, that's when I said, you know, I always quote, the wound is the place where the light enters you. So in that moment of bottom, I was like, okay, yep, it's go time. And so I called. Thankfully, I had these resources in my life where I was able to call a close friend who gave me a referral to this incredible postpartum psychiatrist. And I was introduced to The Motherhood center in New York, which I want to plug like crazy. Like, everybody contact the Motherhood center if you're having trouble. And I was given the right resources and got on the medicated path. And the second that I walked into her office the day after this happened, she diagnosed me within five minutes. She's like, you're having postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety. Every single symptom is exactly spot on. Here's an antidepressant. Let's get you back to baseline. And the other thing that she said to me was like, let's get you to great. She said to me that the medication would give me an opportunity. You've done so much work, Abby, on yourself. This medication will give you a greater sense of safety than you've ever known so that you could do deeper work. And she was absolutely right. Because I had been living for decades with an unresolved anxiety disorder and undiagnosed anxiety disorder because I'd live with ptsd. So the medication really gave me a baseline to go far, far deeper in my therapeutic work that I never would have been able to get to because I was in such a state of fight and flight.

What do you feel like right now? So obviously you're human, so different things come up into your space. I'm sure you still experience feelings of anxiety and depression, but what would you say looks different now with all of these different modalities and things that you have confronted? I think my question is kind of like, how are humans actually supposed to feel? Is it normal to be on like a roller coaster? Like, what in the hell are we supposed to be feeling like? Because I've forgotten.

Yeah, that's a good question. Because I never knew until now. I, you know, I lived with such extreme anxiety and such extreme protector parts. And having been through the last several years, really throughout the last two and a half years, specifically of the deep dive into this full blown recovery, and it took the 40 years before that to get to a place where I would be safe enough to go into that deep dive, you know, so I'm not going to take away any of the work I've done before. But coming out the other side now, I'm going to quote A Course in Miracles. There's a way of living in the world that is not here, though it seems to be. You do not change appearance, but you smile more frequently, your forehead is soft and your eyes are serene. And so that way is the way that we're meant to live. And I'm proud to say that I live that way now, and I suffered for 40 years or, you know, started a lot of miracle moments along the way. But it is possible. It is not only possible, it's right there. It's attainable. But we have to do the work. We have to show up. You can't just take a medication and just have it be over. You can't just turn on a switch and have it be gone. You have to do the work.

All right, Gabs. Well, you've shown up once again in a very pivotal turning point in my life. So I'm gonna be a testimonial for your book. I'm gonna talk about it online.

It's gonna be great. I'm 100,000% here for you, and we'll talk about this as the show's over. But I also just want you to know, like. And I think it's important for your listeners to hear that your ability to be this vulnerable and this authentic right now as you're going through something is your greatest teaching. It's the greatest gift you can offer your listeners and your readers and your students. The same way you may have, like, you know, imposter syndrome. When you look at other folks in your field, they have that for you. They're like, oh, Lori has it all together. She's so perfect. But your listener right now, being able to hear, having a fucking hard time. I'm having anxiety. I'm going through stuff. That's everything, Lori. So I'm proud of you and you're brave and. And thank you for not trying to show that everything's perfect or this not no human.

Yeah. Well, I'm so grateful for you. I'm grateful for this conversation. I always just find it so insanely miraculous how this podcast or your teachers appear and you talk about that all the time. And this was.

Yeah, no, this is no accident. This interview's happen right now at this time. Exactly. Because you're ready for it. Okay. Yep. So you attracted this. Good job.

Well, thank you.

Thanks. It was so easy.

I think your people reached out for me. So that's so exciting.

I was like, they.

You did this for me on this one. But so grateful for you always. Obviously, can't wait for this book. I know we can get it wherever books are sold. And it sounds like the audio is going to be freaking amazing as well.

Because, Lori, the audio is so good.

Because it's just in the moment. It's real, it's raw. I know when I recorded my audio, like, I was just like, you guys just listen to the audio because we get to experience it through you and really, really hear those stories in your own voice in real time. So you guys definitely go and get this book. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be talking about it online, and I'm really, really excited about it. So, Gabby, any last thing that you want to say about the book before we go?

I just want everyone listening to know that I'm proud of them. If they've made it through the end of this podcast, that means that they're brave enough to look a little bit more closely at their own stuff. And I'm really proud of the listener because it's not easy to be human. It's not easy to be alive. And you've done a good job.

So good, you guys, I'm so grateful for you. As always, the biggest gift you can give for our guest is to share this. Let them know. Let Gabby know what your biggest takeaway was from this podcast. And of course, go and get the book because it's going to be life changing. Until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.