869. Is it Hustle? Or is it Flow? Which One Is The Truth?

If you want to build something big, then flow is a lie. Hustle is a necessity. Hustle with boundaries. Create yourself smaller containers and know that it's only temporary in the quest for something epic.

And we're back with another episode of He Said, she Said.

I'm sorry, but I'm looking at all these boxes behind you right now. But, guys, if you could see our podcast studio, you probably think it's, like, something awesome or fancy. It is a spare bedroom that is a disaster with, what is this? 40 boxes, maybe in a surfboard and random.

And the thing is, is that I went on a girls trip this last weekend, and I needed to find, like, all of my cute clothes and bags and hats. So not only are the boxes in here, but they are now. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I went through them like a crazy woman. They're all open.

That's why they look everywhere. That's why I was nosing. I'm like, why does it look so crazy in here? You went and, like, tore them all open.

Yeah, I found some good stuff too, so.

Well, just when we think that we're about to get settled into the Arizona home here, you realize we're leaving for our Newport home in, like, two weeks.

That is insane. I literally can't wait. And we have not seen our clothes since October, so that means we won't see them until we go.

So we haven't seen 75% of our clothes. Like, we've been living in the same T shirt since we moved in the Arizona home because they're all in these boxes right here.

Because our closet is not complaining, just observing. But I am now Steve Jobs, that.

You can do awesomeness in chaos, right? Like, there's actually a lesson here. So we moved into Arizona home three months ago, and everything's in boxes. Still haven't seen the majority of our belongings, and now we're leaving and won't be back until Thanksgiving, So we won't see these things for over a year, which, you know what that makes me realize? We don't need this much stuff.

You just don't need that much stuff.

We don't need this many outfits. We don't need this many things. We don't need all sitting in boxes. I haven't missed any of it.

Mm. Mm. So funny. My friend Danette came over. She was visiting from Colorado. She had a mastermind here, and she was like, I had explained to her, kind of like, oh, we're not unpacked yet, whatever. And she was like, oh, for me, knowing you Lori, she was like, I don't know how you are surviving this. Cause I'm so like, I like everything to be in its place. But the best part was she walked in the podcast room and she was like, oh, my God, this is a disaster. But I had my sound bowl. For some reason, it, like just had been taken out of a box. It was like on top, sitting on top of all of these boxes. And it just was like this moment of like the sound bowl representing a moment of Zen on top of total chaos. She was like, that's a nice addition, that sound bowl on top of your boxes.

This is kind of a little bit of a transition in what we wanted to talk to you guys about today. Sound bowls, peace, chaos. And that is. I feel like I've seen extra propaganda lately from some people saying, hustle, hustle, hustle, you're not going to meet your dreams. And then extra propaganda from the other side of people saying, flow anti hustle. Matter of fact, I feel like the anti hustle culture is the one that's kind of winning over in the messages right now. Maybe that has something to do with COVID Maybe it has to do. Who knows? But I feel like the anti hustle, you don't have to hustle to hit your dreams messages is kind of prevalent right now. And I wanted to talk about. Because you've done big things, you're doing big things. I've done big things. I'm doing big things. What do you think the truth is if people that we respect on both sides of the fence, right, Some people screaming, hustle or you won't make it. And other people screaming, anti hustle, stop buying into the chaos and you can flow your way there. Which group's telling the truth?

Well, there's that old saying that the truth is always somewhere in the middle then. And I know you and I love a good conversation around this because we've done a lot of self development work too. We've done a lot of really looking at people's careers and figuring out, okay, we want something like that, but maybe not as big. Like, maybe we won't strive to be billionaires. Because truly, that is really where you're. You're going to not have the sleep, you're going to be stressed out, you're going to not have the social life. And even with that, it's kind of like, okay, well, what part is true? What part was part of their story? What part were they feeling like they needed to do all the work? What part were they just already like, that So I guess what I want to say is that it depends on how big your dream is, and it depends on what season you are in. So I remember when I was writing my book, my first book, it was 2017. It was the first time I really started hearing this message, especially because I was kind of, like, really immersed in the spiritual community. I started really hearing this message about flow. Don't push. Don't work so hard. Except this message was coming right as I was about to launch my book. Now try to tell somebody that you have to be in flow and not be working extra hard and doing all that you possibly can to maximize getting your book out into the world. If I like, I had a goal of wanting to be a New York Times bestseller. I wanted to sell millions of copies, so you can't flow your way to that. It required saying, we need you on six interviews a day, and then we need you to write three articles every day at night. And that is literally what I did for probably two solid months. It was the most brutal. I remember it was brutal. And you can only connect the dots looking backwards. So now, looking back, I know what moved the needle and what didn't. But I didn't know that until I had experienced it myself.

Interesting. Okay. You just gave me a bit of a breakthrough, slash, first answer for them. I feel like the first time you chase down big things, you have to hustle because you don't know the shortcuts.

And the things that would let you flow.

Right. Because after you hustled your ass off and, you know, getting that book out there and all the marketing, we learned, whoa, I would never do these things again, and I would do these certain things again. So now we could do. We could sell twice as many books with half the effort. So you have to hustle while you're learning, and maybe the flow that people are talking about is the second time you do something similar.

Yeah, that's what I'm even thinking about with the second book. I'm just like, okay, now I'm gonna put all of my energy into these things that I know. Move the needle for me. And here's the interesting thing. I wish that I could go and tell you what will move the needle for you in your book, except I can't, because times are different. Your book is different, and your modality of communication is going to be received different. So, like, if I do really well on podcasts, but you're not that great with long form, then maybe you won't move a book that way, but maybe you do great on these shorts, short interviews, or in these short clips on social media or on TikTok. You don't know until you are in it. So that is really where it's like, I give the analogy a lot of the rocket ship. If you've never been through the atmosphere before or if you know that your goal is like, you are gonna have.

To break a barrier.

Maybe it's you are breaking a family pattern on top of breaking into an industry, on top of breaking into a noisy space, on top of breaking into something that has a lot of, or a lot of people, whatever that is. Like, you're gonna have to use all that, all of your gas while you're launching. So with a rocket ship, they use most all of their gas on launch, like just to get through the atmosphere. And then they hardly use anything when they're up floating around and they've broken through the atmosphere. And that's kind of how I think about it, is there's these moments where you're gonna give all that you have, not only because that's what it's gonna take, but also because you just don't wanna look back and realize that you just missed it because you didn't quite give everything you had. There's nothing worse than that. So I can tell you that even looking back on my first book, I would never go back and say, hey, you know what? I'm just going to do less. Because I can tell you I left every card on the table and felt great about it. When my book didn't hit what I wanted, I still felt good because I was like, I did all I could. I couldn't have done more. So I feel great about it.

If I had to weigh in, I feel like, and I'm going to say this as eloquently as I can, the anti hustle culture, all of the people preaching and teaching and yelling at you that you don't have to hustle, I wholeheartedly disagree with them. I think you have to hustle within seasons at a sweaty, exhausting pace. And I think you have to hustle with boundaries. When we're in a season of hustle, we still have our morning boundaries, we still have our evening boundaries, but the time in between the boundaries are insane, right? Hustling and leaving everything on the table and then some. And when someone is telling you you don't have to hustle, you know, anti hustle this, anti hustle that, they're setting you up for failure. Because no huge accomplishment that I can name out of all of My friends or us has ever been accomplished without a season of massive, exhausting, sometimes angry hustle. I just can't name one. I literally can't name one now, maybe their second project, third project, fourth project, because they had already learned, like we talked about earlier. But the truth is, I want you to know that you do have to hustle your ass off to accomplish what you want to accomplish, especially the first time. And I also think it's related to the size of your dream. You could probably flow your way to a smaller six figure income for sure. And you could probably half hustle your way to a half a million dollar a year, maybe even a million dollar a year business. Lori just made a face.

I'm like, if you have never experienced.

Yeah. If you haven't gone there first straight, you gotta hustle your way there, then. No, but listen, if you're building something even bigger, if you're building an eight figure business, if you're building a company you want to build and sell, if you're doing anything like that, guys, you're not flowing your way into that, you're hustling your ass off into that. You're getting luck to fall in your favor. You're fixing problems on the fly all the time. And then one day when you just can't take it anymore, that's when the company sells or when you finally hit that milestone.

Now the thing that I would love to help people with is that if you are in the hustle season, I firmly, even from where I stand now looking back and saying, could I have done that? Like, could I have actually put in one day of flow? Yes, I 100% believe that you can hustle and flow.

That's hustling with workers.

Work your ass off for five to six days out of the week and then honestly, it's going to feel like you need to be working that seventh day. But you will be better if you somehow could mark off just one day to be present. The problem is, is when you're in the hustle, we get so consumed that we get addicted to it. So I will say if you could create a calendar that you have one day per week where you are fully present and you are off your phone. Like, if you can, it would be freaking amazing for you and your business and your nervous system because I do believe you will get more done.

This goes back, I talk about this all the time. But remember my old boss, Steve Turner? He'd give us ridiculous deadlines and I'd always say, why would you give us these ridiculous Deadlines, we can't get the work done by the time you give us for the deadline. And he'd always say, if I gave you a container this big, now picture my arm stretched way out. Or if I give you a container this big, now picture me making like a small container with my hands. He goes, you'll get the same amount of work done within a container I give you. And he's right. So when you are in hustle season, hustle with boundaries by creating smaller containers. Give yourself a six day week, not a seven day week. Trust me, you'll get the same amount of end result done. Give yourself a 10 hour day or an 8 hour day, not a 12 or 14 hour day. Trust me, you'll get the same amount of stuff done. Hustle with boundaries and shrink your container. And when you're within the container of work, that's where you're hustling and leaving every last drop that you possibly have to leverage.

Yeah, if I have something on the weekend where I'm like, that's it. On Sunday, I need to just decide to unplug because I think what we do is there'll be something that I'm like, oh, maybe I just have some podcast ads, or maybe I just have a podcast with you. And I'm like, I'll get it done sometime this weekend. Well, what happens is I don't enjoy any of the weekend because I'm leaving these things really open ended instead of making, making that really decisive decision and saying, okay, Saturday morning, let's knock out all of our stuff after our walk, let's get it done so that we can go and have fun without this nagging feeling. And then once in a while, of course it'll happen that I don't do it and I have the nagging feeling. But then during the day I'm like, I'm gonna decide to not let this feeling bother me. Know I have that thing to do and like, let go. Like, this is my work right now is to work on. If I'm not gonna do it then, and I know it, if I'm already out for the day or enjoying the fam, don't let it eat at you because you're not gonna freaking do it. So, like literally say, I can't do it right now, I'm not doing it right now, I'm gonna do it at this time, choose it and then release it. I feel like women might have a little bit harder time with that compartmentalizing. And it's just the realization that you are letting all of these things eat at your day or eat into your mindset and really affect you mentally. When I will tell you that when you're building something, if you do not learn how to do that, you will never shut off. You will feel so crazy. You will be feel like this business is eating you alive. You'll start to feel resentful. As women and as anyone who is identifying with me right now who's just like, I totally am that person. The best thing you can do is compartmentalize the things that you have to do and drop into the moments that you have. So if you have a lunch date with someone and you're not going to be doing work, be at the lunch date. Learn how to do this. Like just keep reminding yourself to be focused. Keep reminding yourself to turn off your phone. Like there is nothing during a lunch that's gonna take your company down. Turn it off so that your brain has these peaceful moments. I'm still reading that Rhythm of life book and it's really talking about your brain needs, moments of nothingness. That's actually like how your brain functions best. That's how you reset. That's how you have your best thoughts. And so when we're constantly feeling it or thinking about something or looking at our phone, we're never giving it that piece to recharge and reset and we Never feel good.

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Case in point, I'm in a season of hustle right now. Super excited about being in the season hustle right now. Excited about what I'm building. But one change I made to rest my brain was when we had Fast foundations last. Remember when what was her name that taught us to take the text notifications off Anyhow, one of the teachers that came in to teach the Fast Foundations round said one of the best things that you can do as an entrepreneur.

Ellie Casaza.

Yeah, Ellie Casaza said take the text notifications off of your phone if you want to go in and look at what texts you've gotten do that. But the constant pinging in front of your eyes, the constant someone's need popping up on your phone, like their need becomes your need. It's chipping away at all of your energy. So I did that. It's been about two months now that not a single text pops up on my phone. I have to go look at my text to see if anyone knew is text. And you know how many I get a day. Hundreds a day sometimes. Except I am so at peace. It's the single greatest change I've made. Even though I'm in a seasoned hustle.

I hope this just kind of clears up the. Am I going to have to work hard? What does that look like? Oh, my gosh. I feel guilty that I'm supposed to be in flow and I'm not. I think the best thing that Chris and I can tell you is look at your season of hustle. This is what I hear. You always do, Chris. It's like, okay, Lori, in my calendar, I've got these three months where I'm gonna be traveling. I've got tons of appointments, and then I'm either gonna book something, we're gonna take a weekend, we're gonna go to Maui, we're gonna have a vacation, or we're gonna, you know, this is gonna be the place where I rest before the next one. And it's intentional planning. Otherwise, you will find yourself consistently in the hustle. You'll always find something else, and you'll never have enough energy to do the hustle as it should be. So look at it as the rocket launching periods, and then that rocket needs to come back down and get gassed up again, or you're never going to be able to do and sustain what you want to do. But it's constant launching, landing, refueling. Launching, landing, refueling.

Great analogy. So that's the verdict, guys, right there. If you want to build something big, then flow is a lie. Hustle is a necessity. Hustle with boundaries. Create yourself smaller containers and know that it's only temporary in the quest for something epic.

And just one last thing, like, think about it with your team, too. If you guys have been prepping for a large event, if you just did a really big launch, they've been taking themselves away from their personal life, from their family, from their probably their health routine a little bit to get things done. So think of it as, hey, guys, after this big launch, we're either gonna celebrate or you're gonna go for, you know, three days and relax. With your loved ones or you're gonna have the, you know, off until, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you can have off of this week or maybe you give them a whole week or whatever that looks like.

All right, guys, also, don't forget, Lori and I and our dear friends Lindsay and Elliott Schwartz are hosting a charity dinner. $15,000 ahead. If you're a couple, is 15. If you're an individual is 15. I know it's not fair, but that's the way life works. Super intimate, super awesome, and a very small, close knit of successful people that want to get together. And all the money goes to cancer research. If you guys want to be considered for attending that, all you have to do is text the word dinner to 310-421-0416. Again, text the word dinner to 310-421-04160. I can't wait to break bread with some new people, share some awesome ideas, and raise a bunch of money for cancer.

All right, you guys, we're so grateful for you. Let us know what your biggest takeaway was. We always love to see who's listening, and we will see you on the next pod.

Thanks, guys.