910. How Are You Really? Where The Woo Meets The Work With Jenna Kutcher

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When I claimed back my time, I had the margin and the space to dream again. I had the capacity to learn again. I became a student again, an artist again, and I ended up learning a lot of the things that I do today. But if I had just stayed on that bandwagon of six figures, I would have never crossed over into a life that gives me time, which is my currency.

Hey everyone. Welcome back. Thank you so much for joining us once again, I'm so grateful for you. Today on the show is one of the most amazing humans on the planet. I know I say a lot, but today this is really somebody who has impacted Chris and I in a major way. We met quite a few years ago now in a mastermind. And I think that when you say you meet in a mastermind, for those of you who don't know, it's like spending three weeks with someone throughout the year. And you definitely get to know people, not only because you spend more time with them sometimes than some people in your family continually and talking and learning, but you're also in there to grow. And typically you're pretty vulnerable in there and you're really wanting to connect and to not only get help, but to help other people. So this is how I met our incredible guest today, Jenna Kutcher. And I can tell you that she has impacted my life more than I even have words to share on the podcast, let alone with her. So when I found out that she was writing her first book, I wanted to be that person who literally just proclaimed this book from the rooftops. Because I know that I benefit so much from any conversation, any podcast that she has out, any time that I get to spend with her. So knowing that she has written a book where she put all of her incredible ideas, she's one of the most brilliant minds that I know all in one place, I knew that I had to do all that I could to get this book into your hands. So that you could feel the same love and impact that I have experienced. So my guest today, Jenna Kutcher, is the author of the new book How Are youe really? She's the host of the Gold Digger podcast, which is one of my favorite podcasts. She was born and raised in Minnesota, so of course she's Midwest and I'm even more obsessed with her. She's a wife, mother and entrepreneur and she aims for two things daily.

Helping others wake up to life and.

Staying in comfy pants. I mean, that is my kind of girl. She's helped thousands redefine success and chase bold dreams through her decade long work as a leading online personality and educator. We're gonna dive right away into her story. And you guys, we have such an incredible offer for you as well that I want to share with you. So you're gonna be able to listen in on the podcast and hear the offer. But I wanna let you know that she has created one of the most epic courses called the exper. It is a full bonus suite. It's 10 of her favorite leaders, some of the most incredible people out there. And you guys, I just have to share. I felt blessed and honored enough that she chose me as one of the 10 to talk about things that I have never talked about before. And we share all about it within this course. So you can get instant access to never before heard life lessons from 10 of your favorite leaders and more. This is valued at $997 and you can get it for free when you pre order her book. And all you have to do is go to jennacutcher.com j e N-N-A k-u t C-H-E-R.com go grab her book and follow the instructions on her site. You guys have to go and do this. If you love this podcast and you want her book, you get that Incredible course with 10 experts and things in there that I have never ever shared. And I know that you're going to take away some massive lessons from it. So you guys listen to the podcast. You're going to absolutely, absolutely love it. If you fall in love with her as much as I love her, definitely go to jennacutcher.com grab the book and get the course that's worth $997 for absolutely free just by buying the book and following the instructions on her website.

So let's get started. Jenna, I'm so excited, excited to have you on the show, selfishly, just really, really excited to drop in with you and you are doing so many Exciting things. Your podcast is one of my absolute favorites. You guys, the Gold Digger podcast. You have to go check it out. But today we get to have just a really beautiful conversation about life and so much of everything that you believe and all of the success that you've created, which we'll chat about, is woven throughout this book and really feels like it comes down learning how to have a good life and enjoy your life. And I can't wait to chat with you about it. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Oh, thanks for having me. This is a dream come true. And this has been a show that I have listened to when I miss Lori, but just also like a really inspiring piece of like the heart focus of everything in the pursuit, which I think is great and why we should talk about it.

Oh God, we're going to talk about so many things first. But you know, the question that I actually, when I really sat down and thought about, oh my God, first of all, how cool that you have written a book. Anyone who writes a book, it's like a whole other level that I feel like I can connect with them on because the process, it's a thing. So the first question I want to ask you is after your book writing process or okay, if I asked you in the middle of your book writing process, how are you really? What would you have answered? In the middle? Like right in the middle.

You know what's weird, Lori, is that I genuinely loved every part of this process, which is weird, no? Even the stuff that people hate, like the editing and the back and forth. It's so funny because for years, I mean, since you have known me, we were literally in a mastermind together one time and I asked the question, why would anyone ever write a book? Because I was so against it. I did not get it. I did not understand it. And so what's so fascinating to me is like when the timing and the messaging and the alignment was there, I loved it. My only not regret, but painful part of it was that they often say that like writing a book is like having a baby. And I did both of them at the same time. I was pregnant throughout the writing process. I handed in my final manuscript days before I gave birth. I edited that like last touch point with a 10, 10 day old. So the timing was tricky. But I often think that Quinn has a twin and the twin is my book. How are you really?

God, I love that so much. You know, I find that so incredibly beautiful because the book really is about enjoying the process of life. So you couldn't be a better author for enjoying something that technically the story around it. Oh God.

This is.

So we can dig in right here.

Yeah.

The story around it and everything you've seen and everything you had heard, really up until that time you probably didn't have a lot of people saying, you're writing a book, oh, you're going to love it, it's going to be so much fun. It's going to be easy, it's going to feel good. Yeah, this is great. The story around it was. This is painful. This is hard getting a book out. Are you sure you want to do this? So what do you think were some of the things that, that you did going up to that you don't just enjoy a process. It's set up before. It's the thoughts around it. It's like the way that you're viewing it. So can you let us in on some of those insights?

Uh huh. So here's the thing. So I believe that in order to be in alignment, it takes a massive level of self awareness, like literally knowing who you are and being confident in that. I knew. So this is crazy, Lori. So years ago I did conversations with agents and publishers and I've been fortunate to have multiple offers to write a book over the years. And every single time I said thanks but no thanks to the point where I created a Gmail folder that was titled if I write a book and told my team anything that comes in about a book, just tossed it into that folder, I don't even want to see it. I'll know when the time is right. And I really believed that because there was a piece of me that wanted to write a book like that deep down. But I was, I was like, I'll never do it. It's just the longest, hardest process ever, like you said. And I have a really fascinating story that's inside of the book about how I went to get a massage in this tiny town in northern Minnesota of 1200 people. And I met this woman named Fia who literally told me this word, this line that changed my life. And she just said to me, she's very intuitive. And she said, there's something you need to do and you know what it is, so go out and do it. And when she said that, she looked at me and she said, do you know what it is? And I said, I have to write a book. She didn't say like you need to go write a book or you're nothing. She just said, there's something you need to do. And you know what it is. And I think every person listening to this show, there's something in your life that you need to do, and you know what it is, and no one can tell you it. And it was wild because I went to this massage, came home, and Drew was like, how was your rub down? And I was like, I'm gonna write a book. And he was like, I am so confused at how this happened. And I was like, I literally just feel like I had, like a messenger from God being like, hey, you're avoiding something and you're trying to, like, push through your life, and there's something bigger than what you're doing. And so here's what I did that totally transformed the entire process. I have the self awareness as a creator, as someone who considers herself like an artist, like a visionary, to know that anytime I put a deadline or money into an equation, my creativity is squashed. Every time in my life, when I've been like, I'm going to do this for pay, or I'm going to do this in someone else's timing, I stare at a blinking cursor. And I knew myself well enough to know that. So I did everything backwards intentionally. I did not go out and get an agent. I did not write a book proposal. I did not get a publishing deal. I did not do any of that. I just started writing, and I did it for myself. And I did it in a way, like, I barely even told, like, my mom and sister that I was, like, even considering doing it, because I wanted to make sure that if I was gonna do it, that I. I liked it even when nobody saw it, even when nobody experienced that it mattered to me. Without a paycheck, without this thought of it getting out into the world. And I think there's a huge difference between writing words that tell and words that say sell. And I knew that the minute that someone said, I'm going to pay you to do this, and here's what I think it should be, that I wouldn't want to do it anymore. So I wrote the entire first manuscript in isolation of myself in my life that I was currently living. I didn't, like, clear my calendar or abandoned everything else. I just said, I'm going to make time for this. And I wrote it. And so I did the whole process backwards. And I think in doing that, it made the journey so much more aligned. So I finished a manuscript, and then I was like, okay, now I can start the process and here's my book. Not what do you think my book should be? Here's the book. It was totally backwards and beautiful.

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I love this so much. I. You're bringing me back to a time in my life when I used to put the goal first, right, or, like the outcome that I thought that I wanted. And then when you, like, apply that pressure and you think that that's the thing for me, I'll just use the example that you're reminding me of. I wanted to be on a fitness magazine cover, and I remember standing front of my vision board and being like, why isn't this here? I'm doing all the things. Why isn't this happening? And I was like, what is it that I actually want to do? And it was to create, like, authentic communities. It was really to create communities and be a leader within those communities and inspire people. And I had this epiphany of, okay, well, if you want those things, like, do it, try it, cut out the middleman and go create it yourself. And that's essentially what you did. Like, I have this theory of, like, cutting out the middleman and, like, seeing if you still want it, like, creating yourself, seeing if you want to do it. And then once you've created it, it attracts the thing that you wanted. So you created it. You did it. You were like, oh, I loved it. It was done with so much love and infused with truth because it wasn't based on something else. Therefore, I'm sure it made getting a book deal much easier. It was already done. You were so clear on who you were and what you wanted to say and what you didn't. And I think that's the. Of literally, Jenna, I feel like if they could get one thing from this, from what you just said, that's the difference in how you're going to feel about your life. If you're doing it authentically for what you want, you're going to feel energized, you're going to feel excited, you're going to feel like you could talk about it all day. And if it's from somebody else or if it's not actually what you're aligned with, mustering up that energy is so challenging. Can you tell me about a time when you have had to drag yourself and pull yourself through because you weren't in alignment with what you wanted to be doing? Because maybe it was something that you saw. Can you tell me what it was and how you felt?

There's this line in my book that says maybe their directions didn't work for you because they weren't from you. Like, maybe those like five step processes aren't working because they're not actually coming from who you are. And I think it's like, like beautiful because it's like we're in a day and age where we are so smart to adopt other people's strategies and methods and things like that. And I think that's wonderful. But we've lost like the personal piece of personal development in the sense of like, understanding who you are as a person, as you're developing. Like, you can develop and take all the system strategies and blueprints, but like, if you don't know who you are, those maps might lead you to the wrong destination. And that's what happened for me. I remember I got my start in entrepreneurship as a wedding photographer. I had worked the nine to five, found myself in a windowless office, was given my five year plan, and was like, I don't want to do this. And I didn't know how I was going to get out, but I knew I wanted out. And what was my vehicle of out was a camera. And I taught myself how to become a photographer, taught myself everything to be a successful wedding photographer. And within three years, I had earned six figures. And being from the Midwest and being in a place like six figures felt like a million dollars, right? Like, it just felt like this milestone. And I remember the day that I hit it. I remember thinking, like, why are the angels not singing? Like, where are the gold cellophane balloons that say 100k? Like, where is this? And I remember having this moment. I was in the shower washing my hair and I like checked in with myself and I was like, I thought this would feel different. Like, this doesn't feel feel exciting, it doesn't feel good. Like, in fact, I feel exhausted and like I can't even enjoy what I've worked so hard to attain. And the next day, Drew came home from work and at the time he was selling wine. So he was like, literally like a glorified stockist on like the wine shelves in Wisconsin. And I remember him sitting down and I had this whole color coded plan. And I said, I'm going to say something to you. It might shock you a little bit, but I can't do this anymore. Screw six figures. I was so much happier when I made $50,000 a year and had weekends and time with my Family. I wasn't turning down invitations. Like, I was able to be at the lake or at weddings. And I really looked over at him and I thought, like, oh, he's going to be like, I was the breadwinner. And he looked so relieved. Like, I was like the shell of the person that I like. Am I? Because I was in pursuit of this goal that wasn't aligned. And the craziest thing happened. So we sat down and I was like, I'm going to cut back and cut my workload into half. So I am committing right now, today. I will only book half of the weddings next year. I don't care how much I make. We can live off of less. I just want to go back to being a human that has time again. And what ended up happening unplanned is that when I claimed back my time, I was. I had the margin and the space to dream again. I had the capacity to learn again. I became a student again, an artist again. And I ended up learning a lot of the things that I do today. Podcasting, creating digital courses, joining masterminds, like, all of these things. But if I had just stayed on that bandwagon of six figures and stayed working myself to the bone, I would have never crossed over into a life that gives me time, which is my currency. So it's kind of crazy to look back at that full circle.

First of all, how do you think we learn alignment? Because I feel like it was. I don't know how to learn alignment without feeling totally out of alignment and understanding maybe what my signs are of when I'm out. So for you, how did you kind of learn it? And how can people listening learn it?

I think sometimes there's problematic messaging unintentionally when people are like, pursue your passions, follow your dreams, and you'll never work a day in your life. Because honestly, I think at this point, state of our culture, in our world, most of us don't even know what we're passionate about. Most of us feel like, where there was, like, fires of passion that were literally ashes right now. Like, is there an ember left that we can fan the flame on? And so with that messaging, I love it. If you know what you're passionate about, absolutely go out and pursue that passion. But I think for most of us, we are feeling like we've lost, like, our creative selves, like that, like, reckless abandon that, like, we showed up with us children, like, we need more of that childlike joy. And so for me, with alliance, sometimes it's not necessarily knowing exactly what it is that I want. Sometimes it's looking at what do I know that I don't want any longer. What can I let go of what is no longer serving me? We are like a culture that is obsessed with like busyness and to do lists, but I think not to do lists are just as important, if not more. And like, for me, when I look at these like chasms in my life where there was this like very clear before and after, a lot of times it was, was spurred by like, I don't want somebody to hand me my five year plan. I don't want the promotion that leads to more responsibility. I don't want more work if it requires more of me. I don't want a business where if I have a human moment and can't show up, the paycheck doesn't show up. And so for me, a lot of my life has been not necessarily knowing what I'm running towards, but sometimes running away from the things I don't want any longer. And in that finding the path. And what I would say is the second piece of that is that like our intuition, like our, that inner knowing and voice has been silenced. Whether it's a trauma we've experienced, the culture we live in, the messaging that we're receiving, the way that we're consuming, like the dial on our intuition has been turned down so low that when we hear it, we don't even trust it anymore. We don't trust that it's like coming from us or like that it is for us. And so when I think about like, how do we come come back to that? It's like, how do we start to like trust that inner knowing? It's like when you have a friend who like had a miserable relationship and they broke up finally and you're like, did you ever know? And they're like, oh yeah, I knew right away. But we still do it, right? Like we, especially as women, continue to put ourselves into situations where we know we're not meant to be there, but yet we stay there because we don't trust that like, gut instinct, that inner knowing.

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So tell me about something, maybe even right now that you are clear on that you're like, oh, that's what I don't want anymore.

You know, even with getting my book out into the world, I've really had to battle, like, here's what traditionally people do and here's what you should be doing. Like the shoulds. It's like we could should our way through life. And what's fascinating to me is like, when I committed to writing this book, like, the subtitle is like living your truth one answer at a time. And I said, I'm only going to do this if I literally stay in alignment with this messaging throughout the entire process. And I have like, so for example, when it came time to record the audiobook, they were like, hey, we need you to fly somewhere. It's going to take like four days. You'll be in and out. So it'll be like six days, give or take full days, blah, blah, blah. And I have little ones, like really little ones. And my value system is like, success to me looks and feels like putting them to bed at night, being there when they wake up in the morning, that's me being successful. And so I said, okay, I'm so glad this is how you do it. Can I come up with a different solution that will work better for me? And they were like, sure. So I called, like, my next door neighbor who runs the local radio station, and I said, hey, do you guys have, like, a sound booth I could use to record an audiobook? I'll pay to rent it. My cousin, who's a local radio DJ was my sound engineer and we did something HarperCollins had never done before, where I recorded in my hometown, in the city I live in with people that I love. And it totally transformed my audiobook. And it's like these things where it's like, okay, I see the end goal and I subscribe to that. How I'm going to get there might look a little bit different. And so I feel like, you know, throughout the whole book process, it's a very, like, ancient world and an ancient practice that hasn't really changed a lot. And so how can I do things in my own way, but make the greatest impact and present solutions to potential problems?

This is so amazing because there are so many places right now in people's lives, like low hanging fruit, that you can be exponentially happier if we just rethink it and ask or push those boundaries. So, you know, Jenna, you are one of my people who you literally set the foundation and path and North Star for me on how I want to live my life. And I'll tell you why. You are fierce with your boundaries in such a loving way. You live a life that is truly so inspiring to me because you do have that time with your family. You make sure that you're doing the things that you want. You're making sure that, that you're honoring these things that are important to you. I know that with that comes a lot of disappointing people through email, through saying no to people that you love, that you care for. You know, and I wanted, I want people to hear this. Like, I have been on the end of asking you things that I've gotten no's for, and I love it. I actually keep the emails so that I can learn how to do it in the way that I got it. And, you know, I think that there are people who maybe I know that you know, are on the receiving end, who don't understand it.

Yes.

Take it personal.

Yeah.

Upset. Who maybe look at you and say, well, why isn't she doing that? Or maybe that's selfish. Right. These are the things that stop us from asking our publisher for those things or being like, oh, well, maybe they're going to think that I'm challenging. Maybe they'll want to take back the book deal. Maybe they'll. All of these things that are coming up, as people say, you know, how do they do it? Like, maybe they don't have the pushback. Maybe they don't have people who say those things. Except I know that you do.

So can you please share the secret.

To how you cope with that?

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Yes, absolutely. Oh my gosh. So there's this line in my book that says boundaries aren't to keep people and opportunities and things out of our lives. They're meant to keep us in our life.

Oh my God.

So good.

And I think for a lot of us, especially Midwestern women, it's like we have been taught that like boundaries are like fencing things out instead of keeping us in. And so it's like this very different thing. And I was recently thinking about it because we went bowling and you know those bumpers that you can pop up so that things don't go in the gutter? Boundaries are like the bumpers that Keep us aligned on the path. Boundaries keep us from going into the gutter and rolling down. And so it's really fascinating to me because I'm a huge boundaries person, like, massively, like you said, you've been on the receiving end, but there's a way to do it. And I really learned the art of it when I was pregnant with. With my daughter because we had been through two pregnancy losses. I was just in this season of, like, protecting my peace to the highest degree. And I realized, like, I need to say no to pretty much everything. But how do I do it in a way that doesn't burn bridges? That doesn't make me believe the lie that I'm missing my big break. That doesn't, like, trick me into thinking, like, I'm going to become irrelevant if I say no or, you know, I'm going to lose my, like, mojo.

Yes.

So I had to, like, create bumpers in my life. And part of that was kind of similar to the beginning of this, when I told my team, like, hey, toss everything into this folder. If the timing is right, I'll circle back. Is, like, that belief of, like, when the timing is right, things will be right. But the second part was creating a template that allowed me to really show up in a way that was gracious and kind and loving, but also protecting what I was saying was most important in my life. And so I literally created a template. And anyone listening can take this verbatim and use it in your life anytime you want. And I would say, hey, like, thank you so much for this incredible opportunity and for thinking of me. I'm so grateful that I came to mind. I'm going to say no right now. And I want for you to know that my no is not exemplary of you or your idea or the thing you're working on or this invitation. The no is only showing you that I'm living out the things that I say are most important in my life. Life. I'm going to be cheering you on every step of the way. I am positive our paths will cross in the future. I'm here if you need me. Thank you so much for understanding. And the most fascinating thing happened is one, when I used it, I got so many people so encouraged by the response, saying, oh, this is proof that I can do this too. This is proof for me that I can live into my values and really, like, stand up for myself and what I say is important, but that I can also say no without hurting someone's feelings. Because the important part of that script is me. Saying no has nothing to do with you and your idea. Because a lot of times we spin that, right? Like, they must not like me or they must think my idea is crazy. And it gives people this, like, breath of like, oh, yeah, it has nothing to do with me. It just has something to do with her. And that's actually pretty cool. So it's really changed my life. And it's been this beautiful way of kind of checking in with myself, too. Of like, okay, if I say these things are important to me, which I think a lot of us caught ourselves in these last few years of like, I always said, someday when I have time, I'll. I'll read more books or I'll exercise or I'll do these things. And now I have time. Am I the person I thought I would be? This allows you to, like, live into your values and stay in integrity, which is like, the greatest gift you can ever give yourself.

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Okay, number one obsessed. That is so much freedom right there. So, Jen, I just told you I'm writing a book and one of the things that I want to have in there, one of the sections is all these freedom phrases for where we get stuck. So I'm literally going to put you.

Under boundaries, please.

Because that is like one of the most powerful things I have ever heard around saying no. And I feel like I have learned how to say no a million different ways, but I've never. Do you know what that was? It was just 100% honest truth. Go figure. It was literally like, I just, I need to live the life that I came here to live and that I hold as valuable and to the people that I hold as valuable. And you said it in such a way that lets people really understand, like, oh, it's really not about me. It's that she really wants to spend time with her loved ones or she really wants able to go show up for these other people. And we get so overwhelmed with how to say it. And I do think that these little tweaks and phrases that you just keep on hand change your entire entire life. So when you're talking about boundaries and some of the things that you want to keep sacred, what are those things to you?

Yeah. So it's really interesting because I feel like I'm on the precipice of a big shift and it's a little. I actually haven't talked about it anywhere or to anyone. I did a phone call yesterday with like a mentor because I told her I was like, you know, for the last like four years, I have really just been committed to being home, saying no to everything. I think in the last four years, I've maybe been gone a total like I could count it on both hands of time away from my family. Which is wild because before I had children, I was like on a plane every couple weeks, weeks being gone. And so I really kind of grounded myself and I said, you know, it's kind of freaking me out a little bit because with the book coming out and with all these new opportunities, like, I'm really excited about it again. And it kind of scares me because, you know, I've spent these last four years really just being home, being mom first, and this ambition that is, like, sneaking its way back into my life is a little scary to me. And the person I was talking to, she's so brilliant. She was the person who actually had said to me, there's something you need to do, and you need to go do it. So she's still in my life two years later. And I was talking to her, and I was like, you know, the book is coming out. The book that you inspired is coming out. And I said, I'm just a little, like, you know, I really want to stay grounded throughout the process and stay in alignment. She says, you don't need to worry. She said how you're moving through this is very much like a gentle breeze. She said, there are things like tornadoes and hurricanes. There is this force that can be felt, but then it fades away and it leaves destruction in its path. And the way that you're moving through this is like a gentle breeze. It's enjoyable. You notice it, but it doesn't take over. It's this path that you're on where you have this awareness to notice the breeze but to not be carried away by it. And I loved it because I was battling almost this, like, deeper ambition that's been showing up lately, while also, like, harnessing this, like, beautiful energy of, like, my life feel so full right now because I love everything so much. Like, I feel stretched thin because I love being a mom, but I also, for the first time in many years, feel so aligned with the work that I'm doing. And so it's been really interesting because a lot of my previous nos are now turning into, like, maybe I would like to be on that stage, or maybe I would like to go to that thing, or maybe, you know, and I'm like, oh, wait, am I, like, in a spell? Or, like, am I just shifting? And I think it's, like, honoring, like, who I'm becoming while, like, respecting who I was and kind of figuring out, like, okay, what is this next season? What does success look like? And for so long, it was, you know, very clearly, like, being at home with my family, doing everything that I can from the comfort of my home in Duluth, Minnesota. But now it's like, huh, what would it look like to take the family with me? Like, they're coming To New York. When I launched the book, what would it look like to. To take a couple days to myself and to travel and do these things and then come home and be an even more on fire mom? And so it's really fascinating. It's a really interesting time.

So you said something there. You were like, you know, when I was at home and when I was being mom, like, it was so clear to me that that's where I needed to be. And then you're starting to. You're like, I think I'm on a precipice of something. Like, you're starting to get these little hits. Can you tell me what that actually feels like? Like, what was the clarity on and I need to be staying home. Like, what was that feeling?

What.

What did it show? How were you certain of that? And now how is this curiosity showing up in a way that you do sound certain that this is going to be the next chapter?

Yeah, it's really interesting, I think, because of our journey into parenthood and that it was so bumpy that I, like, really promised myself, like, if I am given the opportunity to be a mom, like, I'm going to be all in. Like, that'll be number one one. And I think it's really interesting because I have had this belief, like, this confidence that, like, I can hit the brake pedal in life for business and know where the gas pedal is. Like, I've never had this, like, scarcity mindset of, like, if I slow down momentum, I'm gonna come to a full stop. Like, I just don't believe that because I. I believe and know and trust. And this isn't just reserved for me. This is for everyone. That what has carried you this far will carry you forward. And you have to trust that. And I think we've lost our abilities to trust ourselves. And that's why we believe the lie of, like, busyness and hustle and, like, not hitting the brake pedal. And so I look at these last four years of my life where it's like, I really did hit the brake pedal in a lot of ways. And it was necessary for me to be able to have children and to be able to nurture the children and to be moving through that, that. And now it's funny because one of our mutual friends, Ed Mylett, just launched a book, and he had invited me. He said, I know you say no to everything, but I'm going to ask you anyways. Will you come to this event? It's really important to me. And he's someone who has really Just been there for me in my life. And I was like, of course I'll show up for you. And it was the first time speaking on a stage in years where there was, like, an audience in front of me, and I didn't know how it would feel. And it was crazy because I was so alive on that stage where, like, I look at those pictures of me and I'm like, there she is. She is. But I also received text messages from my husband of my two little girls watching me on that stage. And so it was like, I get so emotional because I'm like, oh, my God. Like, this is the embodiment of, like, doing it. And the why can change, and the why can get bigger and the why can expand, which makes me so emotional. But it's like, oh. Like, it's not a disservice to them for me to, like, step away. They can still be a part of it, whether they're in the crowd or they're watching online, or even whether they just are aware of what I'm doing. But it's like, oh, that's so cool. Like, I'd rather them see that than me stifle the next stage, because I'm like, oh, this is who I was. You know, it's crazy. Clearly, it makes me emotional.

It's so beautiful, and there's so much there. Let's talk about a few of the things that you said, because you talked about beliefs and talking about the gas pedal and the brake, and, you know, that's just not a belief that I hold that it's gonna stop. And I know that looking back, even in my past and some of the things that I'm doing right now, like I told you, I want to write a book, and I'm breaking a belief around writing a book, and I'm borrowing yours. I'm borrowing other people's. You know, maybe you borrowed the belief of the break in the gas pedal, and that's not going to be true for you. So was that always normal for you to believe that, or did you decide? Did you go out and look for other examples, or did you say, this is not how I want it to be, and I'm going to prove it different? Like, where in your life have these things come from where you make a decision on what you want and you go for it?

I think. You know, it's funny because even when I think about, like, the mastermind that you and I met in or, like, rooms we've been in, or, you know, I've been around a lot of incredible leaders. I think I've always had this gift of unapologetically leaving what doesn't serve me at the table and not feeling guilty. And so it's funny because for a lot of my career, there have been a lot of shoulds. You should write a book. You should have a mastermind. You should have retreats. You should do. You should, should, should. And I feel like I've always just been, like, very clear on, like, oh, this is meant for me, and I'm going to just, like, leave the rest behind and maybe I'll come back to it. You know, it's like we can be a sponge and soak up water and not know when we're going to need to squeeze it. But, like, we're always soaking in things. But I've always been very clear on, like, that does. It doesn't feel right. Instead of like, oh, this would look good, or this would be impressive, or this would, you know, sound good, it's like, oh, that doesn't feel good. And so it's really fascinating because even in my book, you know, I've been an entrepreneur for 10 years now. I've done a lot of different things. I was a wedding photographer. I had a wedding blog. I was a watercolor artist, a podcaster. I had a mastermind. I've done a lot of different things, and I've pivoted so many different times. And then I feel like I've been successful in each of the pivots because I've been in alignment as I've changed. It's not necessarily, like, where I'm like, hey, all of my past brides and grooms, I hope you follow me into this space where now I'm going to teach marketing. It's just like, hey, I'm really curious about this thing. I'm letting you in on my curiosity. If you want to keep following, keep following. But it's allowed me to show up as the evolution in the middle instead of just waiting for the after photo. I think most of us are walking through life feeling this before photo, waiting for, like, the big transformation. When we don't realize that, like, our daily life is the transformation, we should be letting people in on that. And so I think my gift is, like, in really listening to everything, taking in all the suggestions, ideas, possibilities, and then going back to my hotel room or going home or sitting down with myself and being like, okay, what stuck with me, what excited me, what gave me those goosebumps? What, like, made me feel like I could do that or made me Feel like I wanted to do that. And then letting the rest go. It's not bad, and it's not whatever, but there's, like, no shortage of information out there. There's no shortage of inspiration out there. But I think there is a shortage of intuition. And I think that's, like, our job to start, like, putting back the pieces that allow us to, like, have the compass that helps us to not get off the course.

Oh, man. Okay. So good. And you guys, if you don't feel that yet in your life, the cool thing is you can decide that that's your gift too. Like, you can start tuning into that as well. But this reminds me, Jenna, so you're saying that you've always learned to kind of tune in and follow your intuition, and you have these certain beliefs that have always helped you. So kind of finish the sentence for me, I believe that if I let everything else go, that doesn't feel good, and I follow my intuition that my life wouldn't. Will what?

Be peaceful or feel good. You know what's interesting, though, Lori, too, is, like, with this conversation, I think there's an important caveat. Because when we talk about, like, staying in alignment and stuff, I think a lot of us, when we recognize that we're out of alignment, have this abandonment where we're like, clearly, what I was doing was wrong, so I just need to drop it all and move zip codes or quit or whatever. And I actually think it's different. I think you need to leverage what you currently have going on to help fund the next dream, whether it's, like, literally fund it or mentally fund it. And every single thing that I've ever done in my life, including write a book, was a side hustle. It was a side project. It was a passion project. It was not abandoning who I was, but steering in the right direction and giving myself the ability to, like, weave the net before I made the leap. And I think nowadays it's kind of like. And we're seeing this literally in the workforce with a great resignation, with women just, like, up and leaving the workforce, which I think is awesome because we're realizing, like, this is not working. But I also want to encourage people, like, if you are finding yourself listening to this and you're like, I'm so out of alignment. Where I am today doesn't feel good. It's not where I thought I would be. It's not where I want to be. You don't have to abandon everything that's in your life, but what you can do is you can Take your life and fund the dream. To try things without deadlines, without money, to be creative, to experiment again, to do things just for your own joy and pleasure, to play again. And I think, like, every time that I've had, like, a massive change in my life, it's not been out of the abandonment of the old life. It's moving in the right direction for the new life. And I think that there's a big distinction that needs to be made because most people don't have the luxury or the privilege to just be like, peace out. This life isn't working. Let me go create the new one. And so it's like, how can you. You know, when I became a photographer, I used that corporate job that I hated to fund the dream. When I became a podcaster, I use the photography to fund the. You know, like, it's like everything can pour over and spill over into the next thing. And I think that's just an important distinction that should be made. Made.

I love that you share that because it's the same exact path for me. And trust me, it's not that I didn't have feelings of, like, when I was. Had a gym and I felt like I was done personal training, I wanted to burn the place down, but I had to sort through those emotions because it is very, like. I'm like, okay, this is clear. This is not for me anymore.

I want to be done.

Yeah.

And I was like, but I can't be done. And let's look for the gift of what this is, providing for the next.

Step, what it's teaching. Yes, yes.

Sitting in that is a challenge. But it is like, looking back, I'm like, man, if I would have just left, which I've seen people do, it puts you in almost a worse place that. That has so much pressure, like, not too much pressure to, you know, not use the current thing to bridge the gap. So I want to know about kind of the points in your life. Now, you had mentioned that you feel like you are moving through life more as a. Or was pointed out to you, like a gentle breeze. Like, you have these things that maybe on the outside, you know, writing a book while you were pregnant, then giving birth, now being on this book tour, like, that can look like to a lot of people who maybe haven't had the life experiences before you setting yourself up, setting you up to be a gentle breeze that can look extreme. So how have you taken things that, number one, maybe you needed extreme things in your life before to really, like, change the tide and start the Action. But how have you taken these things that. That could be viewed as extreme? Like, you could wake up tomorrow and be like, holy shit, this is insane. What am I doing? How do you kind of look at that in a way that you're approaching it in that gentle breeze?

Sort of. Yeah, I love that because I was with Jamie Kern Lima, and we were just together a couple weeks ago, and she had an incredible book launch. And she goes, you know, how are you feeling? And even you asked me this, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I feel so good. And she's like, really? And she's like, you're the first person that, like, I actually believe that and that has actually said that. And I think it's because I know myself so well that, like, I am really protecting my boundaries in this process and really, like, speaking up for, like, here's what I'm willing to do, and here's what I won't do in the sense of, like, yesterday I had no meetings. Then today, tomorrow, the next day I have, like, 10 meetings, and then the following day I have no meetings. And it's like these, like, Sprint and rest. Sprint and rest. And I think so many people who in their past have. Have, like, quit. They really just needed to rest. Like, rest, don't quit. Like, they're. People are so prone because they're tired that they just give up. And so I've really been, like, protecting, like, this right to rest in the process, but also, like, really making sure, like, okay, what is my bandwidth? How can I decide things? Like, I'm the kind of person where, like, when you text me, it's like, if it's the day of, I can make the decision, do I want to go out for pizza or do I want to stay home? If I'm planning two weeks in advance, I don't know what I'm going to feel like that. That day. And so it's like that awareness of checking in with yourself often. But also, I am a great person at anticipating needs and filling them before they come urgent. So my team and I literally work out of this place of there is nothing urgent. There are very few things that are urgent. We're not curing cancer. I wish we were. But very few things are a requirement that need you to be. Be super connected or online late at night or, like, cracking your laptop on a Saturday. And so how do you create, like, that peace that protects you, to keep you in your life? And so, like, for me, in the pursuit of, like, this book, like, it has been just this Process that, like, feels good because it's like these constant checking in of, like, okay, can I do this? Can I commit to this? Like, what does this look like? How am I going to, like, shut this down and get back into my life? How are we going to incorporate life in the journey? Like, how do we kind of blend? And I think it's like this notion of, like, for so long, people have talked about balance. And, like, if you actually study the word balance, balance is like a moment in time. It's not meant to be maintained. It's like, if you think of the scales, it's like, oh, it's balanced for, like, a split second. And I think we believed this lie that, like, we have to find balance and then somehow maintain it. And for me, I found this, like, notion of blend. Like, how do I take all the things I love? Like, if you're going to make a great smoothie, how can I put all my favorite ingredients in and blend it? How can I take the things that I love? Being with family, working, speaking on stages, writing book? How do I blend it together so that I can show up as, like, the whole version of me and not just these compartmentalized pieces of my life? Because I feel most alive when I'm invited to be holy me. And I think that's not. Not a reality for most people. And I don't think most people feel like they're wholly known or accepted in many areas of their life.

You had mentioned something earlier where you said, you know, almost to the extent of you can't miss what is for you, even if you're saying no a lot. Was there a point in your life or where you've had to have, you know, maybe I'm sure you've heard of this, but, like, the year of yes, where you just have to, like, maybe you've said no a lot and you're like, oh, I think this is my year of yes, where I just need to take everything in order to, like, find what it is or in order to really get out there. Can you kind of explain? Do you think people need, like, that year of, like, saying yes to everything and getting out there and just, like, kind of like earning your stripes? Do you think that's vital? Or do you think that we can start from the beginning if someone is listening and just say yes to the things that we feel like we want to do?

I don't think it's required. And I actually don't think I've really ever been that person to do that. Here's why I feel like I have learned very often in business especially that when people present you opportunities that look shiny when you live them out, they feel dull. And I think because we've been sold. I mean, even watching old Disney movies with my daughters, I like realize how often it's portrayed that the knight in shining armor comes in to save the woman. And I think a lot of women are waiting to be saved. And I would say the year of yes makes sense when you're saying yes to yourself and yes to your values. So yeah, a year of yes would be great. But like for me, my year of yes was when I said no to everything else and like built a business. That was the yeses that I needed. And for me, what that looked like, it was like a three year progression. When we met, I was actually like in the transition out of wedding photography and into this next version, which is a lot of what you see today day. When we went through our struggles with pregnancy loss, I had found out that like we had lost a baby and I had to go and shoot a wedding two days later. And I realized that me saying yes to my work was literally me putting like my deepest desire on hold because of career. And I was like, I am going to promise myself that I will never build another thing that doesn't allow me to be human, that doesn't allow me to say, I can't show up today, but I'm going to trust that I will be provided for. And. And I had this like vision. I did this like exercise after my second loss. And I talk about it in the book where this woman led me through this like visualization exercise. And she was like, picture like the most vibrant, alive, healthy, happy version of you. What do you see? Where are you? And it was like this really in depth exercise. I actually have the exercise. For people who buy the book. You can get this exercise and it's incredible. It's life changing. But it was like something step into who you are. And it was so funny because in that vision I saw this little girl and pancakes. I get so emotional. And I was wearing jeans and a white linen shirt, which is so funny because when I opened my eyes from that vision, I was like in yoga pants and like an old T shirt. And I was like, if I'm not even putting on the jeans today, why do I expect the baby in the pancakes? Like, if I can't even control the things that I can control to become the person I want to become, come. Why am I waiting to be that version of myself when I get What I'm waiting for. And I look back at that season of life and there's this quote by this amazing pastor. I think his last name is Keller. And it's like sometimes the season of waiting is just as important as what it is that you're waiting for. And I think that's like so powerful because I think we're like walking around like wasting our waiting seasons because we're all waiting on something, right? Like we're waiting on the relationship or the career. We're waiting on the baby or we're waiting on like the location change. We're waiting, we're all waiting. And I think a lot of that is wasted. And so for me, like my year of yes was like, I'm gonna build the life that gives me like the Sunday morning pancakes. And if I don't have a little giggling girl, I'm gonna be laughing. I don't care. Like, I'll figure it out. And so it's crazy cause like there's this through line in the book about pancakes, which is so funny cause I really do like pancakes. It's just about like how like the simplest visions are sometimes like the most life giving one. And like that would be my yes. And so if I want those like pancakes on a Saturday morning with my family, then I'm not going to be traveling. Like I'm not going to be doing these things. And so even before I started like doing interviews with my book, over the last four years, I've done a total of three interviews, total. And so like my nos were like, to other people's wonderful opportunities that I was so grateful for. But my yeses was like, I'm going to build that most vibrant, healthy, happy life life so that I am fully awake to it. And like I'm fully living it. And I think when we say those year of yeses, yes, it could absolutely unlock things. And if you're in a season where you can say yes, absolutely, please do it. But I would say say yes to yourself first. And there's a line in my book that says, like, remember, like, you are not the risk, you are the investment. And so your yeses should be you investing into yourself and that best life.

Oh my God, so much clarity just from the things that you have said. They like really especially the example that you just gave in that exercise that you just said, what are some of the things about you? What are those parts of Jenna? Maybe you can name three parts. Like if you said Jenna is part this, part that, and part this that you love that you learned that you just love about yourself. How do you make sure that those parts of you are expressed each week?

Oh, that's good. Well, I think I'm very loving and nurturing as a mom. I will never, ever question if I'm a good mom, which is crazy, because I think a lot of moms are, like, I don't know. But I, like, know in the core of my being that I'm a really good mom. So that's practiced all the time because I'm always mom, but I'm also strategic. And I used to hide that because I. I almost believe this lie that, like, being strategic is, like, conniving. You would never say, like, she's a strategic woman without you thinking something off about it, I think. I don't know if it's the midw west or just the way that we talk about women, but I am so good at strategy. I think about strategy. My brain works in, like, a very beautiful way. And so I'm constantly thinking about, like, how can I. This is probably why I'm really good at it. But, like, how can I do the least but make the biggest impact? And strategy plays a part in that. And so it's constantly, like, looking at, like, how can I do the least amount of work but make the greatest impact? And strategy is required to do that. And then I would just say it, like, I'm really funny, and I feel like a lot of times I, like funny side doesn't come out because I care so deeply, and I emote so deeply, and I'm so, like, I'm just a deep feeler, but, like, I am a goofball, like, when I'm with you, like, we are goofy, and, like, I love your goofy side. And, like, even yesterday, we were, like, doing a conga line in the kitchen and, like, dancing, and Drew's just, like, your moves are crazy. And I was like, I'm such a good dancer, but, like, I'm really goofy, and I think I'm funny. And so, like, I really always try to. To, like, think of, like, when is the last time I was laughing? And, like, how do I make other people laugh? And, like, I just feel like laughter gets lost sometimes in the, like, busyness of life and so just kind of challenging myself in that way. And so those are three things that I think are about me.

So you can strategically plan in now when you want to feel funny or who brings that out in you?

Absolutely. You know, I love that.

I love that you share that too. And I know that we share so much about the Midwest background. And so many of the things you said where you're like, maybe it's the Midwest.

I'm like, yes, yeah, a lot of it is.

A lot of it is.

And I do know that there's a lot of stories with whether you're from different coasts and things like that. And there's also story around, you know, being a woman and the timeframe that you were raised as well. And I'm so grateful for you giving us not just a path of saying, like, okay, here's what you should do, or here's the strategy behind it, but the emotions that all come with that as we go and we. We try to make those changes. So I want to know, in your book, maybe what are some of the key things that you're really seeing as you're starting to have conversations with so many different people that you. I know sometimes when we write, we write things that we think are going to be impactful, and then the ones that you're like, oh, I didn't realize that was going to be as impactful, really come to the surface. Are there things that, as people are starting to have the conversation that. That have surprised you and maybe that.

You'Re really excited about it is so true. It's, like, funny. Like, people will, like, pull out a line and you're like, that's the lifestyle. That's so cool. One thing that I think is really beautiful, and I am an avid reader, but, like, I don't think it gets spoken about enough is, like, how we feel about ourselves and how it impacts how we show up in every aspect of our life. And there's a line in the book that says, like, how you show up to your battles is directly linked to the type of warrior you believe you are. And I talk a lot about body image just because I think so much of our life is wasted on hating the way that we look and not really, like, thinking about the way that we feel or anything like that. And so is a really important part for me and something that I don't read about enough and don't think about enough is, like, what do I believe to be true about me and my body and what does my relationship with my body feel like today and how does that impact how I show up in relationships, in career, in friendships? So that's been something that I think has really been resonating and something that has really, really just stood out. Because I think it's one of those things where it's like, women are deeply insecure, but, like, they won't talk about it. And the other piece of it, too, is, like, community. So the book is in three parts. So it's like, who you are really, who you have and who has you, as in community. And then the last part is, what are you going to do about it? And I love the three separate parts because I think, you know, to grow yourself, you have to know yourself, and then to, like, really be fully known, you have to invite others, fully show up, and then you've got to take action. And I think, you know, all three of those steps are so important and so critical on the path, but they're also things that are really easy for us to avoid. It's like, we don't want to ask ourselves, how am I really? Because we're afraid if the answer is that I'm not okay, that then it means I'm gonna have to do something about it. I'm gonna have to invite people into that mess. And so it's really just this invitation to, like, come back home to yourself, but also to, like, wake up to your own life. And the thing that I love the most about the book, and it was something that I had asked my publisher early on, like, why did you take a chance on me? Why me? Why this book? And she said, right now, I feel like there are two big camps, especially for ambitious women. There's the camp of hustle, harder work, more, never sign off, always say yes. And then there's the other side of the camp, which is manifest. Just say what you want, and the universe will deliver it. And she said, you live in the middle. You live in the gray where the wood woo meets the work. And that has just really stuck with me because I really do believe that, like, I hold these visions for my life, Whether it's pancakes or selling a million books and making a big impact. I have these visions. But I'm also willing to, like, get up and do the work and do it in a peaceful pursuit. And so I feel like it's this necessary conversation in this polarizing world that has us feeling like we have to choose one side or the other. Show up is only one part of it to really invite you into that gray area of your life. Life that I think is necessary for you to, one, have the space to have the visions, but to be willing to, like, lace up your sneakers and start getting after it.

Oh, my God. This is really a life manual for how to live a good life, which is so important to me right now because I feel like I've got the how to start a business and run a business on lock. I've got the how to make money. Like, I trust myself now in what you have said. But I can tell you that, honestly, I am working so hard to. To make sure that I enjoy the journey. Because I was telling you, it's like I woke up one day, I was 41 years old, and I'm like, it goes so fast, and you never reach the destination. I don't want to live that life. I don't want to look back and be like, wow, yeah, I learned how to do what I thought it was that we were supposed to be here doing, and that's being successful. And that was the story that I thought, but I didn't learn how to actually enjoy it or live.

Yes.

You don't want to look back on that. And I really feel like your book is such a beautiful way to say, hey, how is it that I. I can still be ambitious? Because that's really who I am. It is part of who I am. A big part, Half of who I am. But how can I make sure I'm enjoying it? And I'm so excited about it because I think that there's a lot of, like you said, the different books that are out there, there's one that speaks to one or the other, and it can feel very conflicting. So I know just even sitting here and having this conversation with you has made me feel like, oh, my God, it is possible. It is possible to let all these parts of me shine and have different space seasons and go do the things that I want and learn how to protect myself. So this was so powerful, Jenna. I know that we have something so cool for them that they can go in even more in depth on what we're doing for part of your book on building authentic community, really giving them the answers around that. Can you tell me a little more about it?

Yes. So this was actually inspired by you and Chris. Beautiful community. So what I wanted to do is so many times, like, the most powerful things and lessons I've learned in my life have happened behind closed doors with people I love, like the greatest leaders and motivators and personal development people out there. And I wanted to kind of like, peel back the curtain and say, like, sit down with us while we talk. And so I created this thing called the Expert series, and Lori is one of the experts in it. And it's 10 different experts talking on all different topics, from body image to investing in yourself, to confidence to how to gain momentum to how to avoid burnout to how to be present in business and life and it's just incredible. Leaders from Mel Robbins, Brendon Burchard, Dean Graziosi, Gloiton Mo, Amy Porterfield. And you can get it all for free. So these are not gonna be aired anywhere else. These are like exclusive conversations and you can get them when you grab your copy of the book. Free is our gift to you. Ordering the book just means the world to me and I wanna make it so valuable. So you can go to howareallybook.com and snag your bonus and grab your copy of the book wherever books are sold. And I'm so grateful for your convers all about community. And you said a lot of things that like surprised me in the best way and inspired me. So I think it's stuff that your audience hasn't heard yet.

No, they haven't. It's actually topics that I want to be putting in my future book. So I have not really. It's kind of an epiphany that I had around how I use community to be successful in life. Just like what we had chatted about. So you guys go grab this book. Seriously. Everything that I had just mentioned about learning how to not only be successful in the way that you think but also be so successful in enjoying life so that at the end of our life we feel like led a deeply fulfilling, beautiful life. Go grab it now. I am not kidding. You know that I don't mess around about books. If it's an amazing book, a life changing book, I tell you, you need to read it. Go read it. She is one of my inspiring friends and plays a mentor role in my life. I'm obsessed with you Jenna. I'm so grateful for you. I learn huge things every single time I talk to you. You totally light up my brain. So you guys sending you so much love. I would love to know what you got out of this conversation. If you're going to go get the book, you know that I always share all of your shout outs. So tag Jenna, tag myself. Let us know what your biggest takeaways were and if you got the book so that we can share it. So sending you so much love and Jenna, thank you, thank you, thank you. Until next time, earn your happy. Bye everyone.

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