920. Actor Josh Peck On The Frustrating Reality To Finding Happiness

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I think it's important to find the virtue in everything that we do. And as actors, right, like, at best, we're distracting people from their. You know, people live like really stressful, hard lives. And when they can tune out to Netflix for an hour and lose themselves in some show like, that's nice, that's important.

Hey everyone.

Welcome back to the show. Today I have a really amazing guest on. We had such an incredible conversation and I think my favorite part about this interview is just how incredibly open and real he was. So my guest today is Josh Peck and he was the child star in the show Drake and Josh, which was one of Nickelodeon's highest rated TV series. And he grew up to be an actor on many different things. He has starred in so many different shows that you've probably seen. He was on Disney's Turner and Hooch series as the main star. He's been on the Big Bang Theory, he's been on the Mindy Project. He's literally been on so many shows.

That I'm actually not gonna read them.

All because the list goes on and on. But what I wanna say is that he has written an incredible book and, and I think that talking to somebody who has gone through what he's gone through, whether it was being a child star and everything that comes with that, or his incredible weight loss story and just the realization that sometimes your dreams coming true early can really create an interesting effect in your life later on. So hearing that perspective and just all of the wisdom that we can apply to our lives from his journey without having to travel, it is really incredible. I know that I took away some really beautiful nuggets. So, you guys, let's get into the show.

Josh, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. Really happy to be here.

So you have an awesome new book out and is this your first book?

It is, and hopefully my only.

We were just talking about this, so I'VE put out a book. I put it out in 2017. I did the whole thing. So I. Probably not to the extent that I'm guessing that you have done the whole thing, but your book is called Happy People Are Annoying. And I love this title because I've felt both ways. I want to be happy. And also when you're not happy, happy people are annoying. But I want to know what's been the most. You know, I feel like you're a person who extracts lessons from, like, everything that you do. What has been the thing for you? Have you gotten the lesson from this book yet, or do you think that's coming?

I think so. I mean, as far as I know, I did my friend Sean Avery's podcast, and he's a great athlete, played in the NHL for like, 12 years and now is a successful actor and kind of his second act of his life. And he kind of just talked about how he had written a book and how in finishing the book, he was sort of ending that act of his life. And I so identified with that, like, closing that side, that chapter. Like, I editorialized it. I gave people my opinion on what might have been misconceptions or what was just sort of the common sort of idea of who I was. And now I can kind of move on.

I feel like I understand that it felt like truly, no pun intended, but a chapter had closed. So what's bubbling up for you in the next one? Who, if you had to write down what you thought this next portion of your life was going to look like and be, how would you summarize that?

For me, it's so damn hard. I love when I had the comedian Neil Brendan on my podcast, Male Models, when I had him on my pod, I remember he said, you know, you'll probably get everything you always wanted, just not the way you expected. And then he paused and said, actually, you'll probably get everything you always wanted, but by the time you get it, you won't want it. And I love that we literally.

My husband and I just said this on our walk yesterday. I said, you know, when everything comes, when you don't want it anymore.

And, yeah, I mean, it's kind of. It was pretty proleptic, especially for my life, but I think it's universal. Like, it's a worthy bet. Because now when I'm acting, you know, it's really just become that. I like the practice of it. Like, I like preparing and doing research and then the act of doing it. But everything else that I had associated with the Lifestyle or, you know, I have to make money because I have kids and a wife and all that. But everything else I had associated with, wow, what it would mean to be in that 1 percenter, what that would mean, and the friends I would have and the prestige and the way people would look at me has become terribly uninteresting.

So this is the question that I'm, like, spiraling in right now, because I kind of feel like a chapter of my life is we have these multiple chapters in our life. And the question that I'm in that I have for you around, your thoughts are, so how do we stay excited? Like, you've kind of done the things that you want to do. I feel like you've checked off a lot of things off your bucket list. Have you ever hit a point where you're like, how do I get re motivated? How do I get more present? Like, how do I really drop in and, like, enjoy where I'm at? Because I know that more things or bigger goals aren't going to make me feel any different. So what are some of the things that you do to kind of, like, really drop in and try to enjoy your life right now, no matter what?

It's a great question. I think it's all about staying curious. I played a physicist in this movie I did recently. So I got to interview this guy, Dr. Brian Keating, who's a physicist at UC San Diego. And what he said was he's like, mathematicians tend to have an early burnout rate. Most of them do their great work, like where they could win the Nobel Prize or the Fields medal before they're 30, and then they tend not to have as much breakthrough after that age.

Interesting.

He said, physicists tend to do great work well into their older years because physics is the laws of the universe. Oh, wow. So to understand physics, or to try to understand it, in his opinion, is to try to understand the mind of God. Wow. Because it's the way in theory, right? Like, if the way the universe is set up was God's design, then he used physics. So to understand physics is to understand God's mind. And he basically just said, imagine the amount of curiosity that that could provide forever because you'll never even come close to solving or understanding. And I really thought that was a great way to sort of look at life.

Oh, my God. Okay, so I can't believe I'm in the first five minutes of this podcast, but truly, that just made me tear up because I feel like definitely in that chapter of, like, marking things off the bucket list. And I think a lot of people who listen to this are. There's a lot of entrepreneurs we work with, a lot of entreprene. And it's really easy to just set something as a goal and think that that's obviously going to provide more money, more value, more experiences. But we were just on a trip in Italy, and it was kind of a curated trip where it's, like, really trying to get into the culture and, like, extract the experience out of it. And this story that you just said that I'm going to carry with me for a long time, because that's so interesting about just, like, really staying curious and how mathematicians burn out early. That is so interesting. When we were in Italy, we were getting all these tours from Italian people. Like, you know, we were in Florence and all of these, like, Florence locals. And they were talking about how important things were. Like, it wouldn't matter what it is. They'd put a plate in front of us and be like, this is the most important plate that you can use when serving this pasta, or, this is the most important spot. And everything was the most important. And the people that we were talking to were, like, so in love with their life. And we would ask them, like, why do you think that Americans are so different? Why do you think that you guys are so in love with life and you enjoy your life? And they said something along the lines of that, like, we ponder everything, we're curious about everything, and then we make it mean something. Like, we decide to be so present in the meaning and, like, just sit and ponder over wine and longer meals and. And what you just said, I think goes to that whole theory of, wow, you have to really, like, choose to keep being curious and to make things important, right? Like, to make meaning out of it and make it important. So when you are thinking about your future or just when you get in a funky place, because I know that you wrote this book about being happy. What are the things that you do, even just on a maybe a daily basis, that make you flip from. First of all, I want to ask you, do you still get into a funky place? And then what are just, like, some of the basics that you do to get out of it?

I heard one said the ego has incredibly sort of recuperative powers. Ego has incredibly recuperative powers. And, you know, my ego wants to separate me from you and from, like, my fellow man and wants to make me either think I'm better or worse than you. It really wants me to have huge expectations of the way the world should be of how you should act, of the amount of prestige and reinforcement I'm getting all the time that my job is great, my family is great and people find me attractive and my bank account is overflowing and blah, blah, blah. You know, I heard it once said, my ego needs a non stop banquet and my soul needs a crouton. And so yeah, I'm constantly. And it's a practice man. And it's sometimes, you know, if I can like go 36 hours without actively thinking about me, like, yeah, that's a miracle. So I try to stay busy. I try to do something that physically, you know, disrupts that cycle. You know, keep my body moving, actually like ignite those good feeling serotonin endorphins that's provided when you hike or dance or work out or do yoga or whatever, go boxing. And then ideally it's a being service to other people. Luckily I have a wife and a kid, so it's easy to be of service to them. But the real Jedi trick is if I can somehow be of service to a stranger or do something nice and not get caught. I remember early in recovery, when I got sober, that was like the big mantra of this men's meeting. I went to like, do something good and don't get caught. Do something nice for someone and don't get caught.

That would definitely snap you out of a funk right away. You know, while I was like researching you, which was so much fun. And you guys, if you, if you don't follow him, definitely go follow him. He's got so many great videos that like, if you're in a funk, we can go do that, we can go help someone and we can go look at your videos. So.

Oh sure.

Well, we could simultaneously, we could do that or we can show someone we don't know your videos. I don't know. We'll figure it out.

Yeah.

All right.

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Quote that said I was always looking for something to fix my insides. And eventually I realized that whether my life beyond my wildest dreams or a total mess, it didn't matter because you couldn't. Like, it wouldn't change your mind. And I just have so resonated with that in my life. I feel like everybody could resonate with that. Can you tell me that moment when you. Was it a decision for you? I know there's a million decisions that go into it in a million moments, but did you have a moment where you were like, okay, I'm going to decide that when I think this or when I view it this way, or what was it? What were some of those moments that added up to that?

Well, I think what happens is that throughout our life and throughout those periods where we're like doing research on misery and maybe that's at the bottom of a bottle, maybe that's in a bad relationship, maybe that's in a job that you hate, but think you need the myriad of other ways that we try to self soothe and fix ourselves through outside things and trusted confidants, apostles, people who matter, self help books, good readings, just things were accruing during this time. They're planting seeds in our head. And to me, I find it's like a perfect confluence of these seeds get planted and they start to grow a true forest in your brain that you cannot ignore anymore. Eventually it grows so tall that you're just like, ugh, I can't ignore this. This is valid and real. And then you need to hit a bottom. I just feel like pain is the great motivator of my life and I never learned anything on a good day. So for me, it was like I talk about in the book. I, you know, I grew up overweight and I lost £100. And then as soon as I had the body I always thought I wanted, I fell into drugs and alcohol because I still had the same mind. And I tried that for 40 years, years. And then I booked this movie and I worked so hard to do this part that was like my dream role with Sir Ben Kingsley, my favorite actor. And I remember standing there at 21 at the Sundance Film Festival and the movie is getting a standing ovation. And just on paper, I had like kind of done it or what I had thought would fix me. And I just remember waking up the same morning and thinking, oh, no, I'm still here. Like, my mind is the same. I lost the weight, I got the gig, I got the praise, and it's still not enough. And it was in that moment that my worst fear was sort of realized, which was like, oh, no, you're bottomless. And so it was only through facing that bottom and doing something about it, which was, you know, for me, it was going into recovery and getting into a 12 step program that afforded me like the knowledge of all the work that I had to do on myself. But I wasn't in. I wasn't deluded anymore. I wasn't sort of in denial. I finally was like, oh, I see. Like this is now gonna be a constant practice for the rest of my life. It's doable, but there's no finish.

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Oh man. So if you could go back, let's say it's a room of I'm picturing like that telephone game, you know, where you whisper it and you figure out what it says at the end. You know what I'm talking about?

Okay.

Yeah.

You're playing this telephone game with like 50, 13 year olds. What is the one message that you would go back or that you would like to give 5013 year olds that hopefully they don't totally screw up by the end of it, but that they're all listening to? If you could just give one at that age.

Oh, God. The problem with it is that I don't even know if they would be equipped to hear it. You know, Like, I know I wasn't. I got a lot of good advice, but I just wasn't in the place to really employ that.

Maybe there's a phrase for them. So what's. Maybe there's something, you know, someone. I feel like someone said something to me that really impacted me. It was like, what would you go back if you could almost like, be your. Your parent and like, what would you whisper in your ear that you needed the most from a parent at that time? What is that phrase that maybe you needed to hear from maybe your mom or dad or like someone you really looked up to at that time about you or about your life? Do you know what that would be?

Yeah, I mean, I think about what I'd say to my son and I guess I would say, I don't know if I could distill it to one thing. I would tell him, everything will work out, just not in the way you expected. And the attempt is the miracle. Like, not. Obviously we know that we got to stay out of the results, but the fact that you have the opportunity to try has got to be enough.

I needed that today. Wow, that's good. It's so true. So would you, looking back on the, like, the biggest failures, were they required for you to become the person that you are today? Like, were they vital? Or do you think that you would trade some of them in and be like, I didn't need that one.

Oh, boy. You know, it's funny, I've been looking back recently at, like, these pivotal moments in my life. I was talking to my shrink about it the other day. Like, I was like, I have failed a lot. Like, and yet somehow I seem to be failing up and it hasn't stopped. Which makes me believe that, like, I don't know. I don't know what the version of failure looks like for the people I look up to, Leonardo DiCaprio, like, the people who I look at and go, like, oh, my God, like, he never fails. He's always brilliant. I mean, obviously I know I'll never be even close to that, but it's always good to have a hero or a role model in that way. But I don't know what his version looks like. And then there's me, right? Who maybe for a small portion of people who watch me grow up or enjoy what I've done in a smaller, much different way, they might look at me that way. That's why I wrote this book. Right. It's like there are people who grew up with me and could have easily thought, well, he was 21 with his own TV show. He must have had it all figured out. And I was like, well, in fact, I was very far from that. So, yeah, I don't know. You know? Yes. I think all the failures were absolutely necessary. And I'm so pissed that I have to keep failing every now and then. It's not all the time, but I can't believe I still have to at.

35, I'm pretty sure we have to till we die. Really? I think so.

Oprah failing in anything, you know, I.

Think she thinks she is, but I'm curious to find out what it would be.

Me, too.

Yeah, very curious. Let's get her on a show. What do you say?

Who did I talk to about this the other day? And again, this is not antagonizing. Right? This is what I have to remember. President Barack Obama and Bruce Springsteen, arguably two of the greatest sort of icons of this generation, didn't get their podcast renewed at Spotify.

Oh, my God. I didn't know that.

Look, maybe they didn't want to do it anymore.

Yeah, I don't know. We're not going to go with that. We're going to go with the other one because it suits our conversation.

Right?

Like, that's exactly right. Now it means nothing to them. Or maybe it does, I don't know. But inevitably, like, I have to remember that. Like, okay, gotcha. Like, even people who have accomplished more than I could ever dream of, they can also dip their toe in other things that don't quite connect.

And you have to. To kind of know what that next curiosity or chapter is kind of what you're saying. You know, just. I feel like that is an interesting topic in and of itself, is kind of following that energy and trying to figure it out. So where you are right now, I. I feel like, you know, you've probably had a lot of things that take you on an emotional roller coaster. You probably had, like, things that obviously you hear you get a role. You've got this amazing, like, dopamine hit. You're so excited. You're thinking of what could Be. And it's like, now I' wondering at this point in your life, just from everything that I've gathered, maybe your highs don't get as high and potentially your lows don't get as low, hopefully. So how do you figure out, like, what's lighting you up? Because maybe now you have such a practical view of it, knowing it's not going to be this highest high that you used to think it was. But how do you follow the things? Like, how do you know when the next thing is exciting you and if you want to do it and if you want to put all the work into it? Is that making sense?

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Yeah, no, I mean, I'm really lucky that, like, my hobby and my passion is also the thing that affords me my livelihood. Because a lot of people are wild for pottery or for an instrument, but they have a 9 to 5, and that's cool. That's most of the world. And it just so happens the thing I'm kind of obsessed with is also the thing that I make a living doing, at least for today. And so I think, like, you know, I go to acting class once a week and I put up scenes and I sit there and even after I have, like, you know, I've been really lucky the last year. I've worked, you know, more than I ever had. And I put up a scene in front of my class, and my teacher goes, you didn't consider this. Did you. Or this turn didn't work here. And I go, oh, my God. Like, I'll never perfect this thing that I have been doing for 20 years and still, you know, but that's. And that. And it's just weird. I have this thing that I'm kind of obsessed with, and what's been revealed to me, especially recently, is, like, I keep letting go of everything that surrounds this one thing, and I just become interested in that. Like, it's really my only. It's like my only North Star.

What do you love about it? And if for some reason, somebody took away the form of acting that you're doing now, let's just say a recession comes, nothing's happening. Like, it's gone. How would you reproduce what you are doing in your life? Like, could you recreate kind of what you're doing in your life in a different way? What would that look like?

Well, I kind of do that now with, like, the last 10 years, sort of with my social media presence and videos, and that unlocked an income stream for me that afforded me a lot of security. And I'm really grateful for. And podcasting and, you know, and writing this book. So there are things that are adjacent to acting proper that I've been able to utilize some skills I picked up from that and apply it to these things. And then I think as an actor, like, if I really couldn't make money doing it, I think I would try to make a living doing these things that are close to it. And then, I don't know, maybe going and performing at, like, the children's hospital. Like, I think it's important to find the virtue in everything that we do. And. And as actors, right, like, at best, we're distracting people from there. You know, people live, like, really stressful, hard lives, and when they can tune out to Netflix for an hour and lose themselves in some show, like, that's nice. That's important. So I think I would try to do something good with this skill that I've sort of been working on for this song if I couldn't do it professionally anymore.

Yeah, I love hearing that because I like to think everything that we do can kind of, like, we transform and transferred into something. And we're so lucky right now to live in a time with social media where there are so many opportunities for people to, like, pivot and figure out how we can serve in different ways. I love that you love acting so much that you want to, like, serve with it as well, which is when, you know you're just, like, in that sweet spot, like. And this is how I would also love to give back, which is probably the highest form for you of giving back, like, energetically and how people would enjoy you. Okay, I want to know something that you wanted, like, really bad early on in your career but didn't come right away. And you can see why it didn't come to you at that time.

Oh, boy. I mean, there's so much. I mean, I basically spent most of my 20s doing bad work, and I didn't know why. Like, it was fine. It was just super inconsistent because I hadn't really recommitted myself to craft and learning it and practicing it. And I was really, really lost in ego and trying to look good and wanted the announcement and wanted people just, you know, it's not. I didn't want to be some movie star or some superstar. I just was terrified of being relegated to, like, yet another. The road rash of child actors, you know, yet another casualty and that I was more. Much more terrified of that. I just wanted to be considered a working actor. So when I wasn't working, it was just full of so much fear. So, yeah, like, I. Yeah, I spent, like, 10 years just wrapped up in that, and it took a long time for me to realize, like, okay, when I remove all that and all the subterfuge and all the ego and all that part, like, what's my. Like, my buddy said, what's your capital T? Truth that only you can see? And it was like, oh, I actually do love acting when everything's removed, but it took a long time to get to that.

Yeah. Feel like that's where we spend a lot of our 20s and some 30s. A lot of time. Sometimes more than that. What is your favorite thing about acting? Like, do you act in your life anywhere? Like, is there points where you're like, oh, I'm kind of using acting. And that's okay because it's actually, like, making this. Like, I'm trying to make this better.

I know what you mean. There's a lot of actors, especially kid actors, who walk into, like, normal life, and I'll be like, hey, it's just us here. Like, no one is rolling. Like, yeah, be yourself. Some people can't. I don't know if everyone knows exactly who them. Their. Themselves is.

Yeah.

Or who their self is. I. So I think, like, I have to be careful because. Because I've been doing this since I was, like, 8 or 9. My default is very theatrical and very, like, drama nerd. And my wife, too Will be like, cut it out. Stop it. Like, it's too sticky. It's too broad. It's too big. It's not real.

So I.

You know what I love? What do I love about acting? I. You know, I think it's. It's very nostalgic for me. It transports me back to falling in love with movies and TV and just being obsessed with it as a kid and using it as an escape from my mom and I going through financial insecurity or navigating challenging waters, not having a dad or being overweight or all these things. And I equated it to, like, becoming an actor for me is like, someone going to work for the hospital that cured their cancer. Like, I feel like I'm paying a penance, like, for everything it did for me.

I guess I totally get that. I was an overweight kid. My whole family was overweight. And I would plaster fitness covers all over, and I became a cover model because I truly. That was my payback of doing that. That was like my North Star. I carried them in bags every. Like, they were, like, tattered. I was obsessed. So I'm 100% feel you. Okay. This is so interesting to me because. So my. Whenever I'm talking to people about changing, whenever I've wanted to change my life or switch gears or become a different person or, you know, get into a different industry, because I've done that a few different times. What I've done is, like, almost do, like, full immersion into that environment or, like, take on a character or, like, think of the version of me, of how I would show up in that way, and I truly end up becoming that person or changing my life in that direction. And you kind of do that a lot. Like, you go in these different characters and in these different places. Number one. Has that been challenging that you've ever, like, taken on traits, or is it sometimes a positive thing? Do you take on traits and, like, have you ever adopted anything from a character that was super positive that you're like, this is amazing. Like, that was. I'm going to carry this with me.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it was laziness or fear, but, you know, I would watch these actors who would completely immerse themselves in a character for three or six months. And it doesn't mean talking like that character wherever you're, you know, going, even in normal street clothes when you're not on set. But, you know, guys who would go. And if they're playing a firefighter, they would go hang out with Firefighters for three months. And I love all that now. I used to think it was, like, kind of odd or overdoing it, and now, like, I find it's a fascinating. I mean, it allows me to be able to quote a physicist on your podcast. I mean, I'm just like a no good kid actor who dropped out of high school. What do I know about physics? But I know some stuff now because I did the research, because I know that on the other side of feeling, I did this show, Turner and Hooch, for Disney last year, and we did like 12 episodes of this show. And the theme of the show was I was playing this really sweet, deeply good character who was kind of neurotic and ocd, but funny. And I was like, I think I'm pretty sure I can do that stuff. That sounds like I've got some of that in my own life. But he was a U.S. marshal and that I didn't know anything about. And I also was intimidated by having to feel like I could be the guy that could really save someone. U.S. marshals are nothing to stop at. Like, they are some badass guys. So I went on ride alongs with real U.S. marshals, and I went to their headquarters in Southern California and I chatted with our advisor, Scott Samuels, for hours on end so that I could feel confident. And so, yeah, like, now I know that that work frees me because I. What I don't want to feel is a fake while the camera's rolling. So I have to do all this to feel like, hell yeah. Like, I couldn't do it in real life. I'm not that guy. But I'm like, yeah, I feel like I understand this enough to have an aptitude for something or I'm just, like, comfortable in that skin.

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Wow, that makes so much sense. I've never thought of that actually, that actors, like, have to actually, I mean, I know that they do a lot of work behind the scenes, but they have to actually feel like capable of showing up in that way. Yeah. They may not have to do that every day and they're gonna have some help, but you actually have to feel capable of showing up and believable that you could be this person that's gotta be like. And I can. As you got more seasoned, did you notice a difference, like a huge difference between how you walked on set and what were some of those things that you did mentally or emotionally to kind of prepare you as your, I feel like as your career grew, like to feel confident.

Yeah, I think it's important to look, my acting teacher says it to me all the time. She's like, I don't like frontal energy. She's like, I don't like leaning in. It just has a very people pleasing, please like me type energy. She's like, stand on your heels, put your shoulders back and be a man. Like, you can accomplish all of what you're doing, what you think you're Getting from all this frontal energy, it's much more interesting from sitting back and taking a breath and feeling that confident. So I think that's important. I think people want to be led. They want to feel that you're confident. And I think we, you know, in the age of toxic masculinity, speaking from the perspective of a dude, or I think we attributed it always having confidence in it to that 80s 90s super bro y. So it became like, or at least I can speak for me, like, oh, I felt like the need to soften myself and to apologize and you know, because I'm like, I don't want to be one of those douchey bros, like, because that's not cute either. But there was a middle ground. There was a part of it that can be like, no, you can just quietly lead and be confident. And, you know, when I did that show Turner and Hooch, it was the first time where I was at the lead of a proper, like, big budget show. And I knew that it was a leadership role because if I have a bad day, a lot of other people are gonna have a bad day because it's gonna take extra long. I'm not gonna leave my trailer. Like, this is what. When an actor's having a bad day and they take it out on the crew, people don't get home to see their kids in time. So I talked to my father in law, who was a quarterback in the NFL before we started, and I said, do you have any advice on how to lead? And he said, what I would tell you is make the wins everyone's and make the losses yours. Wow. And I thought that was so, so well put.

That is beautiful. What is a character or role that you would want to play? Like, maybe you're like, I'll probably never play that, but secretly I want to be like in. I want to be a Marvel character or I want to be. So what is that character that when you watch it, you're like, damn, okay, maybe that's never happening, but that would have been really cool. Do you have one in your mind that jumps out right away, like, man, Aquaman? That would have been it for me. Captain America. Do you have one? Anything. And it doesn't have obviously not Marvel, but anything. What's that role that you're like? That would be pretty epic.

I think what would be fun would be to be like, Jeremy Piven in Entourage, like an Ari Gold. Hilarious, absurd, gigantic energy, says, you know, the wildest crap performance, but also, like, he got to do some beautiful emotional work. On that show and stuff. I think that would be really fun.

Okay, so second question for this, then. So you get called. You get a role. You are like, essentially, maybe Entourage is coming out a new round, all new characters. You're Jeremy Piven, and Leonardo DiCaprio is. Let's say, who is the other main character. I can't remember in entourage. Okay.

DiCaprio wasn't in entourage.

No.

I'm just saying because I know you like him, so I'm throwing him in.

Yeah. Yeah. And who's the other main actor? There was, like, Adrian Grenier or Kevin.

Leo is playing Adrian now. So that's what we're doing. Okay, so this is the call that you're getting. And they're like, you have to let us know, like, tonight if you're going to take this role and you're thinking about it and you're like, oh, my God. Well, this is insane. It's what I've always wanted to do. Who would you call first that you need around you? Like, who do you need around you in order to become this character in your life? Are there coaches? Are there people? You don't have to say their names or not, but what roles of support do you need in your life in order to become this person so that you can say yes to this?

Oh, you know, I call my acting teacher, and we work on everything that I do, and I would just sort of have her on retainer and to break down every script and to just get very clear, you know, to me, what a great teacher can do in addition is they're great at forensics, like, because a good script, especially is a blueprint. And it's basically like, this is how to build the bookcase. But sometimes it can be. There are things that you can naturally maybe just not pick up on. Sometimes it says a lot about a character, not by what they say, but how people react to them. So, you know, I could be in. My character could be in a scene, and he could be saying something, and the person goes, like, why do you always act like that? Like, this is what happened with mom, and this is why she left you. And, like, all of a sudden, they're telling me so much about this guy. Like, wait, wait, he's this way with his mother. His wife left him. Because that's pretty extreme if your partner leaves you over the way you act. But I. You know, sometimes an extra set of really smart eyes picks up on that. So having her. I'd probably put my boxing coach on a retainer because it's really important to feel physically fit and proud in that way. And I'd make sure I got my wife a lot of help with the kids because I'd probably be away a lot.

I love that. I think it just shows like, oh my goodness, at every level. Sometimes we can think, like we make decisions based off of thinking us or can we do this and remembering? Like you would get a team of people. You might even find more people. You know, we say remembering to say yes if it's something that lights us up, but then remembering we're not going to do this alone. So. All right, so happy people are annoying. Why did you write this book? I know that you said it was kind of like a closing of a chapter, but what are some themes that you felt like? Clearly there was a message here because so much goes into it that you were like, I want people to know this message. It's important to me. I think.

Yeah, I wanted to write sort of a self help book and so I was like, how do I actually get a publisher to want to publish a self help book that I've written? And I guess I could hide it as a memoir. So that was kind of it. I just wanted to give people views from the halfway point. I think most self help books are written by people that seem very Zen and at the finish line. And I wanted to write it from a work in progress standpoint and say, listen, I might just be a couple more steps ahead of you. And here's some good intel from the front lines.

Oh man, I so feel that. I feel like we're eternally in the middle. So whenever, whenever people are like, no, I'm so good now. I'm like, please tell me how. Right? Because I just, I feel like, you know, we go on to a new thing and all of our old stuff comes up in a different outfit or comes up in a different way. You know, is there anything in your life right now? I know that you have so many things that we can learn about in your book that you apply, but is there anything in your life right now that you're like really loving talking about? Like, it's just really lighting you up moving forward that kind of like you have the curiosities around. Like you could just talk about it all day long.

I think I'm really just trying to delve into like stoicism. And my buddy Ryan Holiday who writes about it, he had a quote, a tweet the other day of something about like the importance of self care. Like, he's like, it's not your aptitude or ambition that'll win out. It's your sanity. So, like, work hard, but, like, take care of yourself. And I think that's so right because especially lately, I felt like I was working, you know, so much that I was, like, just starting to act in a way that I was like, oh, this could get out of hand, just, you know, spread too thin. So I think that's really important. And also, I'm trying to give up the need for certainty, and I'm clutching it with everything I've got, but I just feel like at every turn, it's just like, josh, let go of this need to know what's gonna happen and just trust the data that it's always worked out.

Like, we might be. We're kind of into. I'm reading Ryan's books again because I love it.

Yeah.

And also, just I have this constant reminder and, like, mantra that I'm saying in my head is, like, we can look at our past, right? Like, Josh, you can look at your past and realize that you have gone through hard times and you have always been the creator of success and abundance. Like, you've always figured it out. And that is just like that place that I'm at as well. Like, letting I feel like everyone listening is probably like, oh, my God, if I could just let go of needing to be certain. That's where so much of our trouble comes from. Needing to be certain and having expectations. I feel like it's like, ah, the thing. So, yeah, is there for certainty when you, you know, I don't know if you wake up at 2am and you feel uncertain or when it attacks you. I'm not sure when it. When it happens. But is there things you do? Do you pray? Do you meditate? Do you talk to your wife? Do you. Are there certain actions you take? Like, on a really uncertain day where you're like, I just feel like shit. Like, I can't shake this feeling.

I have therapists that I've gone to forever. I try to talk to social media. Sober guys go to a meeting, talk to my wife, talk to trusted confidants, inevitably, just distract myself, try to get busy. I remember when I got sober, you know, guys would say, if you want self esteem, do esteemable acts. And they were just like, very pragmatic things. They were like, we're not going to contemplate existence or muse on, you know, the subtleties of spirituality. Go clean the coffee pot and tell me how you feel after. Like, it was as simple as that.

Wow, that's so true. That is crazy. I feel like sometimes I can analyze the world to death, and then I'm like, wait, this made me feel worse. I should just go try to make someone else feel better.

It's so hard. I hate helping people, but it almost always makes me feel better.

I know. I've had so much fun talking to you. What do you want people to know about your book? Like, we want everybody to go and read it because, honestly, I love the way your brain works. I listen to. We have a friend, Lewis Howes. I listened to you on his interview.

Loved it.

So thanks for writing it, like, really, truly. It's a great time to have it out, and I'm just glad that you followed the call, even though I know that you're like, holy hell. That was a lot of work. But so grateful. Where can we get the book? What is the message that you would like to tell people? Like, who needs this book? Who is it for? Who could it help?

I always say it's just for people like us. And if you know what I mean by that, you know, if you listen to this podcast and hopefully, hopefully you know what I mean by that, you can find it wherever books are available. And I think these conversations tend to go deep because I love talking like this and I hope it's never a barrier for entry for people because it's also pretty fun and there's some good stories and it doesn't have to be an intense read if you don't want it to be. It can just be an easy, fun one or it can maybe dive in a little deeper, too.

I'm so grateful, and honestly, like, I get to interview a lot of people with books, and I appreciate your thought process and your range so much. Like, you can go here, but you can also be funny. You can do. You're very diverse, and I think that that is, like, so much fun. Which, you guys, if you go and read the book and go research a little bit more, you'll see that he just has so much range, which I think is so great for people to see, because I think you have to have, like, some unapologetic ness to yourself to be able to dance in all of those places. And I think it gives us permission to kind of explore that. So thanks for giving us a permission to go in all of the ways and not just be put in a box, you know, with. With one thing in our lives. So, so grateful for you. You guys, One of the biggest things that we can do for Josh is to, number one, go get the book and show that you got the book and tag him. And number two, just give him a tag and share this podcast and let him know what your biggest takeaway was from the podcast. And Josh, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you. Love chatting with you. Thanks for having me.

Oh, thank you. Have a great day, you guys. Until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone.