@bossbabe CEO & Co-Founder Natalie Ellis, On Becoming Your Own Advocate & Shifting Into A New Identity

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Off going through your own process and being willing to ask yourself the hard questions and sit with it. Sure, we can ask our friends to hold space if we're just feeling upset or we need to vent or we need to let things out. But let's not expect them to be trained therapists who've gone through every experience under the sun and can show up from that place.

Hey everyone.

On the show today is Natalie Ellis. She is the co founder and CEO of Boss Babe. She's been featured in major publications like Forbes, Inc. Entrepreneur and you guys. She's always speaking on stages around the world. She's a social media expert and has grown the Boss Babe Instagram account to over 3 million followers in just three years. And from that following she's generated multiple seven figures of revenue. How amazing would that be to do that? And you guys, today is a super, super special and just really incredible vulnerable interview. Natalie is one of my good friends and we ended up talking about things we weren't even expecting to necessarily talk about. And Natalie for the first time shares her birth story on this episode. So trigger warning for anyone who's not prepared to listen to that. She has gone through so much recently and truly. We talk about how motherhood and a really big life occurrence like this happening can really change who you are and how you feel overnight. And how do you show up to this life that hasn't changed in a business that is still the same when you feel completely different. We talk about big life transformations. We talk about massive life pivots. We really both got vulnerable because she opened up, which also caused me to open up even more and share things that I have never shared either. So I hope that you love this podcast. I hope that it impacts you the way that it impacted me.

Truly, you guys, I will never not.

Advocate for myself after listening to her story that just really made me deeply think about how important it is that we use our voice after she shares her own story about not having a moment where she didn't use her voice or advocate for herself. And you guys, I hope you love this episode. Share it with somebody who needs to hear this. Share it with someone who is in a pivot or is in a massive life transformation or has something that is completely changed their life recently.

I'm so grateful for you.

And you guys, what's really awesome is Natalie and Boss Babes are a part of the Growth day podcast network, which earn your happy is also a part of. So go subscribe to the Boss babe show. You're absolutely going to love it. Not only is it women getting really vulnerable about business, but truly it is some of the best marketing advice for your business that you can possibly get in growing your social media. So, you guys, let's get into the show.

Natalie, I'm so excited to have you back on the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

It's been a while since I has.

Which makes it so much fun because I feel like you've probably become three different people in. In that time period. I've maybe evolved into one other person, whatever. But truly, this is such a beautiful, interesting, fun time in your life. I'm so excited to talk to you right now. At the threshold of becoming a mom, of, you know, having your business, becoming a mom, feeling so different, I'm sure internally and mentally. And everything just flipped on your head, you know, right from being a mom and like, your identity around who you were before. I can't imagine how it's even affected your relationships, your personal relationship with your partner. Like, I'm so curious about all of these things because, you know, Chris and I are on a journey and I'm like, oh, my God, we are. Everything is gonna flip very soon. So tell me the future, Natalie.

Okay. And you know what? I feel like I wish someone would have told me the future. I had a conversation with a friend about a week before I give birth, and she came around to my house and she was just sitting in the nursery with me and going through the checklist. Do you have enough diapers? Do you? All of those things. And she sat me down and she said to me, I'm going to tell you something that I really wish someone would have told me. And it might come across as really jarring and it might scare you a little bit. It's not why I'm saying it. I'm saying it because I just really wish this was more talked about. So I'm sitting there, I'm already nervous knowing I have to actually give birth to a child. And she says to me, in that room, when you birth your baby, a part of you is going to die, and it's never going to leave that room with you. And she said, land for me. She said it. And I thought, okay, well, that might have been your experience, but I know who I am. I know what lights me up. I have done the work. And so that kind of sat in the back of my mind. And I was like, well, thank you for telling me. That's scary. I hope not, because I really like who I am. But, okay. And, you know, fast forward. I have a baby. And she was right. I felt like a part of me was left in that room. To be honest, all of me was left in that room. And I came out of that not knowing who I was or at least feeling like I didn't know who I was. And for a while, I really got trapped in that. And I had what I feel like was just the biggest identity crisis. Whereas now I see it as more of an awakening to myself. And I was just talking to Steven this week, and he was saying, you know, how are you feeling now that you have the perspective of hindsight and you've seen what you went through? Because I feel like I am a completely different person. And the identity shift really rocked me to my core, I think, because so much of my identity was tied up in my ambition and my achievement and improving myself and hitting the next milestone. And I said to Steven, the way I feel is, before I had a baby, I was wearing 100 coats. And I, you know, I came into this world as a little baby, and I started putting coats on, and some people started putting coats on for me. And this was my beliefs, my thoughts, my desires, my ambitions, my projections, my traumas. Just kept layering coats on me and on me and on me. And going through this experience, I feel like all 100 coats came off at once. And I was really back to, okay, so who am I? And what is. What is my identity? And going through that process was really painful. But the minute it got easier is when I stopped trying to block it and stop trying to force it and stop trying to hold on to all the coats so tightly and just let them go. I sunk into what I would say is probably the most authentic place I've ever sunk into in my entire life. And it's been all kinds of amazing. So if I'm telling you your future, I would say, and I think, you know, we all know what it's like to go through identity shifts, whether we've had kids or not, but that for Me that becoming a mother just really reminded me of who I am at my core and what I really care about and what my authentic, true nature is. And it was incredible. But it doesn't make it easy. Wow.

You know, whether you're having a child, thinking of having a child, the experience you're talking about is really like a big life shift. And I think, you know, you're just making me think of some. Some different things in. In my world and that have really rocked our worlds. And it is like finding it's all of a sudden you find yourself in this place of a new identity. Like, doesn't necessarily. It's not necessarily going to be able to make it in this new realm, or it does feel like it's just completely gone. So for you, are you willing to share, like, how that even showed up and shifted? I know even when Chris had lost his dad, like, we had this. We even felt like our relationship kind of shifted and he needed to figure out even who he wanted to be moving forward. Like, what did that mean to him, to have his dad no longer with him and to carry his dad with him moving forward, like, just these different moments where you sink deeply into a place of not knowing if anything before that mattered, or, like, how that applies. So are you willing to share, like, in your relationship, how that shifted for you, too, and how you had to navigate that? Did the same thing happen for him in that room, or did he, like, need to kind of, you know, come along that journey? Did you have to walk him through it? How did you feel about him afterward? Like, what did that look like?

Yeah, and it's really interesting because I had a close friend of mine going through a grieving process of a family member that died while I was going through my process. It's really interesting how birth and death both bring about some of the same things. So I completely understand what Chris was talking about when you were saying those things. I mean, it shifted everything in my relationship. And quite honestly, I was wondering if we were going to get a divorce. It was really, really hard because I felt like I changed within an instant. What I went through. My birth was really traumatic. It wasn't what I'd expected at all. And for Steven, he was the one witnessing that. And it also was really traumatic for him. So while I was dealing with this big identity shift, plus that trauma, which was creating all kinds of reactions for me, he was also dealing with trauma and the fact that he almost didn't recognize his wife anymore, and we're both sleep deprived and we've got this amazing little baby to take care of. And there were moments where we were both just looking at each other, like, are we going to get through this? Are we even speaking the same language? Do we even care about the same things anymore? And we had those really uncomfortable conversations. And ultimately where we arrived to is we're 100% on the same page and we're both rowing in the same direction and we're both realizing we care about the same things, but we went different paths and to get there. And I hear this a lot of anyone really that goes through a life event, whether that's a death, starting a business, leaving a job, moving to a new location, all of these coats that we're wearing that all of a sudden we're not wearing them anymore. And it can just completely shake up how you approach the world, how you may want to approach your relationships moving forward. But it was really, really hard. And I also don't think people talk about the changes in relationships after bringing babies into them enough, because I didn't know about it. I had no idea. I thought, you know, I see all of these like Pinterest perfect pictures of couples bringing these babies into the world and they're all loved up and it's the perfect family. But actually introducing a brand new human being into a relationship that's only been the two of you, plus a shit ton of sleep deprivation, postpartum hormones, and you really are just getting a perfect storm. And this is across the board, no matter what the life event is, you really, no matter how much work you've done and how resourced you feel like you are, I think it does, it does affect and it's been a big journey for us, but I'm so proud of how we've been able to navigate it and that we still continue to choose each other and that we're back on the same page now.

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Like because you're feeling so different he's probably feeling so different. Your whole life and schedule, all you have to say is sleep deprivation, and that's going to change people no matter what. I was just thinking of that today, how much just not having sleep actually changes your personality fundamentally. You're like, oh, maybe I'm not a raging bitch. I just needed to sleep. How did that conversation go? Like, did you initiate it? Did you guys say, we need to make room for this every day? Did you go on walks to make sure that you were, like, talking nonstop and processing it? Because I'm sure you didn't know how the hell you were feeling. I'm sure both of you didn't really know how you truly felt.

Yeah, walks really helped. There's something about just getting out of your environment and moving energy as you're talking that really helped. We came to the conclusion that sometimes it's really difficult to have a structured, productive, loving conversation from the place of feeling really sleep deprived or feeling all the kinds of ways that you might be. And so we thought about, what are the things that we need to do to start feeling better in ourselves so that we can have these conversations and we can deal with this head on. And so one of them was more sleep. And so bringing in some night supports that we could have a bit more sleep. For me, I went and decided to do EMDR trauma therapy to start processing some of the things that I've been through. We had a couple of therapists that would facilitate conversations with us. Big thing for Steven was he wanted to get back to working out. He realized that not working out was having a big impact on him. You know, it sounds like a small thing, but starting to take supplements again. We were. We were off the wagon, and we were totally depleted, and we started doing those foundational things that were nothing to do with the relationship, but they were working on us as individuals. And then when we came back to have conversations, what we realized is, oh, you're saying the exact thing that I'm saying, but you're saying it in a different way. You're communicating with me in the way you. You used to know me, and I'm communicating with you and the way I used to know you. And those foundational things helped so much.

Mm.

Oh, okay. I love this.

And you're. You're making me think of. So after Chris's dad passed, he really, like, he lost ambition. Like, just lost all ambition. And I don't. I don't want to say lost. I'll kind of explain more like, it was what is important and all of a sudden, working all of the hours for not being able to spend time with our loved ones and that. That looking like the reason why we couldn't. Couldn't spend time with our loved ones was just this moment of attaching it to ambition or, like, wanting to go out there and do the big things. And that's where a lot of. Where Chris and I connected over. So for me, even though a little bit of that was gone as well, because I wanted more time with the family, I was like, oh, God, are we speaking a different language now? Is he like, I just want to live life. I just want to be in the rv. I just want to, like, do these things. And I'm like, oh, God, like, where are we going to connect? And, you know, you just made me think about. He still wanted to be able to, like, have this life that we envisioned. He just wanted to do it in a different way that wasn't so tiring, that didn't take so much time. So that's so interesting that you guys are still, like, yes, we still have this vision. This is the vision. But maybe how we get there looks totally different. And I love that you both. And even for him, too, I think it's probably not a conversation that's brought up with a lot of men, because even though the woman did go through something crazy, and I know that yours was. Was even, you know, more traumatic. I don't know your full story, but than normal, it's kind of like, I don't know if the men necessarily get asked what they need either, or what's important to you right now, and then they can feel even more disconnected and lost. Yeah, this is really. This is so interesting to me. So you guys started doing the fundamentals, working out, taking supplements, getting more sleep, asking for help. That is so key. Bringing in some people who could. Was that hard for you to go and ask for help, or was that something that did not feel hard at the time?

It wasn't. I think just because of the world we're in, we're used to reaching out to coaches for support. We're used to investing in ourselves. And so that part felt pretty natural. The hard part for me was just feeling like I'm at my most vulnerable. And the person that I'm going to work with, I just need to be able to trust them. Like, I really need to trust them. So getting recommendations of people I felt comfortable, comfortable with. And I actually didn't work with, like, the first person I started working with because after a couple of sessions I just felt, oh, this is not the right person for me. And making that decision to switch, so that wasn't so hard. I'm a big believer in investing in myself, just like you and Chris are. And I totally resonate with what you're saying about. We're not trying to do, you know, throw in the towel of what we've been doing, but we want to do it in a different way. Like, we'd both been used to working into the late nights, you know, over weekends, or when we go home to visit family, fitting in work while we're there, and seeing family around that you do, you kind of think about, well, is this what's really important to me? Is this what I want my life to be about? And for me, I always want to take a stand for the ants. I'm like, okay, I want to keep earning the same amount that I'm earning, and I want to do it differently. I don't want to do it in the same way that I've done it. And realizing that was really powerful. And it sounds like you guys had, like, a similar realization.

You know what else? And I'm curious for you if you're there as well. Just, it's not even that we're doing less. It's that we are not letting it extend as long. We're getting things just done quicker. We're not sitting in the resistance as long. We're not complaining about it as much, which has taken hours of what we're doing. I don't know if you've noticed that, like, instead of thinking about it, talking about it, complaining about it, we just do it now and it actually shrinks time.

Yes, that's exactly what I feel. I feel like I work less hours now, for sure, but I complete just as much, if not more, because my window of time is more condensed. I'm not caught up reading emails, caught up reading Slack, you know, pondering things that I know I'm not going to take action on. Saying yes to meetings, that could definitely be emails. I just say no to those things. I get shit done and then I'm out.

What are some questions that you're asking yourself about, you know, is this a necessity? Is this a yes or no? Are you going through that process in your head and how do you share that with the people in your life and your team, like, trying to really streamline what's important.

So one thing that I did, which Brendan Burchart actually supported me in doing, because I went to him crying, I was like, I don't know that I want to do this anymore. I feel so overwhelmed with the way my schedule used to look. It feels like I came back off maternity leave, plugged into the same old schedule, and doesn't work for me anymore. And he took a look at my car, and I was like, you need a rhythm. You need a rhythm that is regular. You're, you know, doing the same things on a weekly basis, so theme your days out. And that's what I did. So I only take meetings internally on a Monday, externally on a Wednesday, and I have themes for every single day. And I communicated to my team why that was important to me versus just putting the boundary and everything. I'm only taking meetings on Monday and Wednesdays. It was, hey, it's really important to me that I do work that lights me up, and that kind of works creative. That kind of works in front of the camera or in Photoshop or coaching clients. And I can't get that work done if I'm also in meetings and still have the life outside of work that I want. And just by simply communicating to them why it was important to me, they totally got it. And I feel like I've seen people I work with also making shifts in their calendars and schedules, because I think when someone else does it, that you. You look at them and you see them still getting work done. You think to yourself, oh, is there some shifts I could be making? Am I wasting time? Could I be collapsing my schedule and be doing things that actually make me feel fulfilled?

Oh, man, that's so good. I was just thinking, can you share what the part of you that you feel like was left behind in that room? Can you share who that was and what that was and who you feel right now? Because I know it's going to evolve and change a million times, even in the next year. But who you emerged as, oh, there's.

So many layers to this, but there's one that has been really profound for me. So I've never actually talked about my birth story before, but I feel like maybe this is a good place because it's where one of my biggest identity shifts came from. So I was booked in for a planned cesarean because of the positioning of the baby, and we couldn't move her in the womb. And so I was booked in for just a planned C section. It was meant to go smoothly. And I went in, I got my spinal tap, which is the anesthesia that's supposed to numb you so that when you go through your procedure, and this is a trigger warning for anyone that has birth trauma. Probably skip the next five minutes. I don't need to re listen to it. But my anesthesia didn't work, and I was in a really calm place Because I'd be doing all the meditating, chanting all the things before going in that I was trying to advocate for myself, But I was almost doing it in a way that was more on the calm side. I wasn't saying, I'm not numb. Don't go ahead with this. And ultimately, I think deep down, I knew I could do it anyway. Deep down, I knew I was resource enough to do it anyway. And so I didn't advocate for myself in that moment. And they went ahead with the procedure, and I wasn't numb. And you can just. I don't even need to go into details. You can imagine what going through a surgery without anesthesia is like. And my arms got strapped to the table, and what happened, happened. And it was. It was a very difficult experience to go through. And coming out of that, I realized. And I made a commitment to myself that I will never not advocate for myself ever again. Because not doing so in that room meant what happened happened. Like, I'm not a victim of it. And I'm always looking to, how can I take responsibility for my side of the street? How can I? And for me, I know I could have advocated myself more than I did. And that's something that, when I look back just in my life, I haven't really done. Because there's certain things that I know I can handle. So I haven't spoke up, I haven't advocated myself. And ultimately, I've just done my work and handled things and let it go. But those things, for me, they've built up and built up and built up. And after coming out of that experience, Experience was almost like if anyone listening has done plant medicine, it was like the absolute biggest journey you could ever imagine. And I sat in that reflection and just made that commitment that I'll never not advocate for myself again. And in doing that, I realized a lot of places in my life where I haven't been. Maybe it's certain needs being not being met that I want to be met, or maybe it's in certain relationships I haven't spoke about certain things that I feel. And it goes into a lot of different dynamics, But I feel like that's. That's the main thing that I'll take away from that whole experience. And so now I find myself creating from a place of knowing my worth, Being willing to speak up from a place of My worth and not questioning, you know, is my opinion going to be heard here, or is it going to be welcomed here, or is it going to trigger other people to say how I feel? I don't go in with that lens anymore. I go in with the lens of I'm going to advocate for myself and I'm going to do what I know is right for me, and I trust that whatever unfolds because of that is right for me. Wow.

Thank you so much for sharing that, Truly. I feel like just you sharing it will help shift people because it just shifted me like, Truly.

It did.

I just had the thought around, you know, you were sharing that, and it's like, if we all advocated for ourselves, we'd eventually fall into the perfect spot. And people, because they'd be advocating for themselves, and we'd be coming from the lens of, does this work for both of us? Instead of someone losing themselves or giving themselves away and being in these halfway relationships, jobs, and lives.

Oh, just.

Just the thought of, like, truly, what does that really look like to advocate for yourself? And, you know, although your experience was traumatic, I feel like if we really listen, we can take a piece of it, you know, hopefully without having to go through what you went through and move forward in that way. Like, that is so powerful. Yeah, I'm just, like, so grateful you shared that. What would you say? Do you have any feelings that are, like, bubbling up from that? Did you get any? Did the path or direction of your life shift? Like, are there some big shifts coming? Is there anything that you can share? Are you just kind of like, sitting in the processing still around that?

Definitely some shifts in just the way I approach certain relationships, whether it's family relationships, close relationships. Just thinking about, am I halfway in this? Like you say, am I halfway in this? Did I lose a part myself to, you know, maintain this relationship or to make my family or this person feel comfortable? That's one thing. Thinking about the way in which I run my business, is there a part of me that doesn't want to run it in a certain way anymore? A big part of that was changing my schedule. I knew that I wanted to do that. I'm also going to be creating another business that does feel really aligned with me, of creating container of other mums so we can get together and connect and really work between that intersection of ambition and motherhood. Because that feels really alive for me. A big thing that came through in my work is I love being with people and I love being able to support people in their businesses and you know, with Boss Babe, it's. We've scaled it beyond our wildest dreams. And that's meant that we can't work as directly with people as we would perhaps love to, because there's more people. And, you know, if we give every single person our direct attention, there would just be none left for ourselves. And so we've been thinking about ways that we could add in more. More coaching, more connection in that way. So I feel like it's touched so many different areas of my life, even in my, you know, marriage, just advocating for myself in certain ways that I maybe didn't before. That's completely changed in my friendships. There's almost no area of my life that I don't feel like has been touched by this. And I know that going into the future, things that I take on or conversations I have, I'll come at them in a different way. I'll come at them from a different lens than I have before. And I think it will all work out better because of that.

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So it, it makes me ask in those big moments of life, like was there anything that made you either? Like, did you lean into spirituality? Did you lean into God? Like what is your. What did you rely on anything external to get you through all of this? And do you ask God universe what for direction? Like what are some of the things that are your north stars now that are outside of you?

Yeah, I definitely did. I feel like in moments I was talking to someone, I don't know who I was talking to. I'm like, show me the reason that I'm going through this, asking those questions that was really powerful for me and has continued to be. I'm the kind of person that loves to be by myself and sit in silence. And I feel like I get a lot of answers in that. Whether we call it God, Source or higher self, whatever we name it. I feel like I do get a lot of answers from doing that, and I. I feel like I get a lot of strength from doing that. So my relationship to myself in quiet has become more and more important because I feel like, you know, before the old me, the busy me, the me that was wired for achievement and recognition and all the things would have just kept going on. The hamster wheel would have kept going, kept going, put the blinders on, block it out. If I can't see it, if I don't feel, then it's not there. And this version of me almost was forced to be still. You know, I didn't work for three months. I was recovering in bed and couldn't move for quite a while. And so I was forced to be still. And I was forced to come off of that hamster wheel and sit with the really uncomfortable thoughts that I've been trying to push down and the really uncomfortable feelings that I really didn't want to feel. And I feel like all of us can do this in our daily lives. Sometimes I'll just go for a walk and I'll not put my headphones in. I'll not go with a friend. And just. That lack of distraction, that lack of outsourcing, can be everything you need. You don't need to go through a huge life experience to tune into yourself, to source, to God, whatever you want to call it. You can sometimes just go for a walk, or you can sometimes just. You're going to put the TV on. Well, why not just sit on the sofa just for five minutes with a coffee before you turn the TV on? Like, where can you find those pockets of stillness that you might be able to find an answer, or you might be able to find a question that you've been resisting asking yourself.

There's been so many times in my life where I'm like, I don't know how to tell people how I made it through this without telling them I had to totally surrender to God.

Like.

Or that I have to go on walks and just be like, hey, we need to talk. Like, you got to take this off my shoulders because I can't breathe today. I actually. It's funny. I'm writing a new book and I'm, you know, when you go back and forth. Because I just. I feel like the subject's not sensitive, but it's also like, I don't want to exclude people. So when I say God, I just mean universe, energy, all of the things. Because I think God made it all and I think it's all the same thing. So there's our inclusive wording.

But I relate. Whatever you want to call it is fine for me.

Oh, but I was going back and forth with, like, should I add this in? And I got a. I asked. I went on a walk, asked God, like, should I add this in? And it was like, how are you supposed to say what you actually do without saying what you actually do? And so it was this moment of, wow, you know, when we go through these. Just this experience that you went through and even that you're still going through and evolving through, and the fact that you're on somewhat of it sounds the other side. And your relationship is where, you know, in a good place after what you were feeling. It's like we have to have this guidance of not necessarily people who are even sometimes our close friends can't give us the advice that we need. Or sometimes maybe someone can accidentally, because it happens, I do it to my friends. We can put our experience into their experience. And just by you going and getting quiet in those moments and asking, I think it takes an actual ask. You have to be intentional with making sure you ask and then be willing to listen. Is there something that, like, showed up for you recently at all where you're like, oh, my God, I can't. Like, that was right there and I didn't even realize it.

I don't know if recently I feel like this has just been kind of a slow evolving process. But one thing I have realized, which you just sparked there around friendship and perhaps wanting answers from friends, I think it's really unreasonable for us to assume that our friends have the answers to the things we don't even have the answers to, or that our friends can be there for us through an experience that they have no idea what the experience was. I think it's an unreasonable ask. And, you know, we can create many stories about whether that makes them a bad friend or they're not there for us in our time, whatever the story is. But ultimately, how can we expect that of someone if we don't even have the answers for ourselves, if we don't even know what to say to ourselves? And I think that's really important for us to remember. You can't outsource that. You can't give your power away in that. And you can't expect that if someone is a good friend, they will do X, Y, Z for you. I think that's completely unreasonable. So like you said, going through your own process and being willing to ask yourself the hard questions and sit with it. Sure, we can ask our friends to hold space if we're just feeling upset or we need to vent or we need to let things out, but let's not expect them to be trained therapists who've gone through every experience under the sun and can show up from that place. Because especially when you go through a life change, like, let's say, you know, one of your best friends is your co worker and you're working a 9 to 5 job and you quit that and you go start your own business. Well, you and your coworker have bonded over this very mutual experience of you both being 9 to 5 in this company. All of a sudden you're in a completely different experience and they might not know how to support you from that place doesn't mean anything about them. It doesn't mean that they're not a good friend. And I think it'll be unreasonable for you to assume that they all of a sudden know exactly what you're going through and to expect that of them.

This is such a fun conversation because we'll have your perspective and then we'll also have mine. Because you just had the baby and I was in a place of where we weren't sure if we could have kids and all of those things. And now we're on this whole other journey of trying to have a child and what I'm finding within my friendship. So I'm. I'm 41, which means a lot of my friends who were going to have babies already have babies. So my friendships have evolved and some have fallen off. And I still have many of the friends who have children, but also half of them I don't have either. So it's really interesting because it's like some of them maybe even in the beginning, maybe when they were having kids and I wasn't in that place, I can see my role in being like, well, I don't know how to be their friend now and kind of losing interest and not staying in touch. And so some of those earlier relationships were lost where now I'm very clear, like, oh, like they can still be a mother, but they don't necessarily have to be that role around me. Like I could actually play the friend role where they get to just talk about all these other parts of themselves that they want to talk about. But maybe in the beginning we're probably not going to hang out as much because this is such an important role and they're trying to figure this all out. And I'm just kind of observing when my friends have babies, like, let them figure out what their role is, what my role is. How do we want to still connect? Like, does this still feel good for you? Because I can't relate to them on that level and talk about their child the entire time we're together. But if I had a baby, I can see where I could talk about that 24 7. And like, what is this process? And Lord help me out with all of these other millions of things I don't understand. It's interesting from probably your friend perspective too of like, who am I within these relationships? Because you don't necessarily want to talk about the same thing right now. You know, you have other things to solve, like big things to solve.

Totally. And I feel like I was kind of prepped for this going into entrepreneurship because I had a lot of friends that weren't interested in entrepreneurship. I had friends that were happy with their businesses being a certain level. And I feel like I had to learn to compartmentalize and almost know which friendships were for which conversation. So I feel like definitely entrepreneurship preps you for that. Like my closest friendship group, it. We never really talk about business and now we never really talk about babies because I'm the, I'm the only one that has a baby. And it. That works so well for me because that friendship is purely built on us. We don't really talk about our relationships very much. It's just us talking about us. And that's the place that I get to go and talk about how I'm doing and how I'm feeling. And when we take a vacation, it's let's do self care, let's have, you know, fun girl time. And then I have a group where I have mums that I can connect with and talk to and be like, hey, what cream are you using for xyz. And then I have a group that is purely business focused. And it doesn't matter whether they're mums or whether they're not, but we drop in and talk business. And I think that's a really, really healthy way to have friendships, is not to like I even in my marriage, I can't expect Steven to be there for the girl, chat there for the mum, chat there for the business, chat there for the connection. Like all of the things, we just can't expect that of people because we're not. We just don't have that in others. And so I think the more that you can know who you can go to in what situation is really important. And I think if I had just one circle of friends where all we did was talk about that one thing, I feel like it would be very easy to feel lonely and not connected because there's nowhere to talk about the other things you want to talk about.

Oh, it's so good. So I just think, you know, what you shared. If you guys can take anything from it, like, actually learning to allow people to be who they are and kind of compartmentalize and know, not have the expectation that they have to be everything for you, I think that's when we truly, truly can. Number one, we'll be sorely disappointed for the rest of our lives.

We have hundreds around people.

Oh, my gosh. Okay. So I want to know, because it probably feels mildly jarring when you're like, okay, I have completely changed. My business has not changed. How do you. Because you're a leader, obviously, you're, you know, CEO, co founder of Boss Babe. You guys have, like, done so many different things within there. You have a podcast, an incredible podcast, the Boss Babe podcast. You guys, they love it. Go, go. Subscribe, go listen. It's so good. I listen to it all the time. And now you're, like, overnight, truly a different person, and people are probably expecting you to be the same. And at the same time, it's like, how do you.

Because you.

You have to be the one who's in charge and leading. How do you, as the leader, start to look at what your business is and say, how can I show up in this authentically and bring this business along with me? Or how do I show up in this, but also simultaneously do something else that feels very authentic to me? Like, what are these thoughts running through your head? For people who are finding themselves in a position with their business where they're like, I am changing and evolving, but I feel like I need to. How do I figure out how to get my business to fit me as I grow?

This is such a good question. I think there's two kind of answers. There's an answer for if your business business is you, if your business is a lifestyle business, I think making those tweaks could be a little bit easier. Your business might be a little more malleable. So for me, with Boss Babe, you know, the business isn't that malleable. We have served over a hundred thousand students. We have a big commitment to those students. We have a community of almost 4 million women that are relying on us to show up to support them in their journey. I have a co founder, so it's not just my business, it's a business that I run with someone else who is still the same person that I left when I went to go on maternity leave. I have a team that is continuously growing, but is growing from the values upon which Boss Babe is. So Boss Babe feels like it's a less malleable entity and I feel like as the CEO of that company, I do have a responsibility to my team members, to my co founder, to my clients, to my community. And so what I did before going back to work is doing the work on myself. What is it that I might be needing from my work that Boss Babe isn't fulfilling right now or what parts of me have changed so that the things that I was doing in Boss Babe maybe don't feel like things I want to keep doing. I did all of that work. I would say it's almost like a self audit, which I recommend people just doing generally. Or what am I not loving? What am I living? What do I not want to do more of? What do I want to do less of? So I first got clear on what that looked like for me and then opened it up to conversations with my co founder, with my team of where are we going as a company? What would feel good for me, what would feel good for you? What would feel good for the team? What are the community asking for and deciding? Are we going to make any shifts there? I wouldn't say the business is necessarily changing much because I feel like I've changed, but my role has evolved. So I'd been in the seat of doing certain things up until this point that some of it's not feeling as aligned anymore. And I want support in doing that. And so that's going to require certain hires and then I want to move into the space that I'm doing. And like you mentioned the other business, there's a part of my self and my work that's not being fulfilled through Boss Babe. And I noticed that there was a big need for a community of really entrepreneurial, high level women to come together and to be who also had babies and come together and have that support of both. And so that's something that I'll have as a side hustle that will fulfill that need for me and kind of make sure that I'm still getting like my cup is full. And I feel like I'm in a really privileged position to be able to do that because my business is in that kind of place. I feel like if I had more of a lifestyle business that was more dependent on me or if I was. Was worried about where the finances were coming from, I'd be thinking about it really differently, but I'd still be auditing. What am I loving? What am I not? Where am I spending my time? Where do I not want to be spending my time? And when anyone's making any kind of changes in their business, I always say, do it kind of like think about where you're mapping out a movie. You know, you have all of these freeze frames, and I think about take a freeze frame of where you are right now and take a freeze frame of where you want to be in five years time, and then you've got a bunch of empty frames in between that start to map out what little tweaks you would make in order to get there so that you're not just making a fast decision because you think you've changed and that's the decision you think you should make. But actually you're still making calculated business decisions and honoring yourself. Does that make sense?

Yes. Yes, absolutely. It's a process. It's looking at what is unexpressed and what is used to be expressed, which now no longer feels good. And I think that that is just what you shared. Whether you feel, you know, whether you've had, like a big life event or not. I feel like I don't know about you. And I'm sure you feel this way because you do so much self work. Even every year I feel different. Like, oh, my God, what worked for me last year is like, who was that girl? Like, and especially if you. Are you guys listening? Like, if you signed up for something that is really challenging, if you started a business that is a little bit bigger than you were, kind of like, oh, this is real scary, or this feels like far outside of my skill set. Like, that is fast tracking your evolution, which means your old self needs to die even faster, essentially.

You must have felt that a lot when you took the leap to decide to start light pink because you had to step in. I feel like you were forced to step into a completely different identity. And again, it wasn't like, you can do this gradually. It was, you kind of make that decision, and all of a sudden it's almost like the rug gets ripped from underneath you. Right?

So I've been trying to explain this, Natalie to friends like so this will be fun to see how this comes out. Right now it's like your higher self signs up for it but your you who has not caught up yet is like it's happening, it's pull, it's like pulling you and you have no choice. So even like there are so many days where I'm like no, no, no.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

But like I can't not show up and become someone different. Like I actually have to wake up and become someone that I have never been before. It feels really shocking to the system on many days and it can be really tiring. And because of that shock to the system, it has also forced me to learn like new stress coping skills. And I mean you do terrible stress coping skills on some of the days. You know what I mean? Like you're just, it's really, it was interesting. It's like I was on this train that I couldn't stop. Yeah, yeah, that's.

I don't know how to explain that. Made me think of like another analogy is like like you're sitting with your mom and you're like, oh, one day piano lessons will be fun and you just kind of say it and she signs you up for piano lessons and she drops you off and she's not coming to pick you up. You gotta get on the piano whether you like it or not.

It's like you're like, I just said.

This would be fun. I didn't really mean it.

Uh huh. That's, that's literally what it's like. And you know what's interesting about that is you and I surround ourselves with people that when we say oh, that would be fun. And we're in a place of like our authentic self and, and we're being very real. They're like, great, we're going to make that happen.

And you're like, let me connect with you.

Why do I hang out with these people?

Yeah. And you're like, oh my God, I didn't really mean it. And then they connect you with someone and then you're all of a sudden talking about this thing as if it's happening already. And yeah, it's like a train that does not stop. But isn't it? So you've got, then you'll look back and you're like, thanks higher self for signing me up for that. I totally wasn't ready, but I needed to be thrown onto that train.

Oh my God, it's so good. And I do believe it's one of the only ways that these, like, big leaps get done. But then there needs to be on the other side. Right? You need to have the awareness that we have now. If you're not there yet, you guys, you will be if you keep doing the work. But then there's. The other side of my life is now so set up like this that I have to be very careful what I throw out when I'm with people that I love, because I'll be with a group of girls and, you know, who are all kind of in the same position, and we're all creating the lives that we want. And. And it's like, lots of things now sound fun to me, and it's very easy to start a lot of things. And I am now clear, especially, I will say, Bill's passing, like, made me so aware that being so busy, I miss out on things where you think it would be the other way. Like, you have FOMO if you're not doing them. I'm actually so present in my life now because I like to do a lot less with just the people that I want intentionally for the rest of my life. And that circle is really small. And it's not that I don't want new people in it. It's that I just want really solid memories with the people, you know, the core people that I want to have in my life till I die. It's the awareness of, like, saying no to things. So has there been things recently that you've just like, wow, it's interesting how, like, the more successful you get, the more good things you have to say no to.

Yeah. There's been so many times that I've been approached with certain ideas, and I'm like, oh, my God, I would love to be part of this. This sounds amazing. And I've had to catch myself and remind myself of what my big vision is and what my North Star is, and realize that saying no to that thing that sounds good is actually going to support me in that bigger vision or finding another way to say yes. So, okay, I want to be part of that, but maybe I take a smaller role in that. Or, like, is there. If it feels like something really alive for you, is there a way that you can say yes and it still serves that, or is it going to be one of those things where it says it feels painful to say no, but you're going to look back a year from now and be like, you know, I'm really grateful that I said no to that because it gave me the destiny depth that I have now. You're gonna laugh at this, but. So a couple of years back, actually a few years back, I was in la, living in la, and I was saying yes to every social event you can imagine. I was out socializing all the time. That's all that's. And I felt like I had so many friends. Right. Which is great. And I felt like so many of those friendships lacked depth, and that was really unfulfilling. So I felt like I could invite a bunch of people to a party, but I wasn't feeling really fulfilled by the conversations I was having. All of those people. It was kind of 10 minutes here, five minutes here, very fleeting. I'm a Capricorn. My brain works in spreadsheets. So I decided to make a spreadsheet of all my friends, all the people in my life, all my friends, and I looked at all of them, and then from there, seeing it all written down, I decided to go and highlight the ones that I really cared about creating depth with. I really cared about spending more time with and creating actual depth. And that really helped me. Just seeing it all laid out and seeing the people that I really care about spending time with helped me make yes or no decisions a lot easier. Okay, yes. That social event sounds really fun. And I know that that's not the relationship that I'm prioritizing right now, because I want to go deep with with this group. So I'm actually going to say no to that, and I'm going to focus here. And I feel like that kind of thing works, whether you're talking about friendships, whether you're talking about business ideas, whether you're talking about places you travel or ways that you spend your time, just getting intentional about it so that you can go deep in those areas. I think that's so much more fulfilling than being shallow spread across so many different areas.

This is cracking me up. You and I were, like, literally living the same life at the same time, which is so funny. Okay, so I was in LA at the same time, probably going to some of the same parties. Yes, literally. And I told Chris. I was like, I was trying to assess, because I was even. I think I was probably even writing or talking about my book at the time, talking about, like, connection, like, deep connection. And, you know, I was like, oh, we need all these people and all these things. But then there's this other side of, like, okay, I'm very social, which is great, right? Like, okay, you. You have a network. But I had never felt so empty because I would leave and be like. Like, I feel like no one knows me. I feel like I didn't have the space to. I think the. The big awareness for me was we're not giving ourselves the spaces and like the places where we can feel vulnerable enough to drop in, to like actually let ourselves out. So, you know, a relationship is two ways. Like, it's. I would find that some people would open up to me in those spaces, but I would never. I needed a little bit more time to like open up to them. So it would either feel like a one way connection where I, at the time, I actually did have people who were like, like, I think they thought they were my good friends, but I wasn't feeling that connection because I wasn't allowing. It was always at parties in these spaces where I wasn't able to drop in. So it was like understanding, okay. If anyone listening is like, okay, well, I go to these things and I feel like people tell me, well, what do you need to also feel connected and kind of like you. Natalie had this realization. I was like, oh, I don't want to do groups bigger than six. I even prefer four to five. Like, because the conversation then within four you can really meld. Six can be a little tough. The ends can get cut off. You don't get to like drop in as much. So there really is a great number. It's usually like around that four that you can really, really get into that conversation. I was like, I'm only gonna go to things like this for a while. So I like dropped off the face of the planet for a bit because I was like, I can't. I only have time for this.

And.

And I remember feeling simultaneously guilty and simultaneously like, I figured it out.

So. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And I think that's a really liberating place to be because sometimes we say yes not from an authentic place. We say yes from place that is like, oh, but I have these goals and going to this thing is going to help support me in that, or going to this thing is going to help me be perceived in a certain way or more people are going to like me. If I'm saying yes, we're saying yes for all of these reasons outside of ourselves. We're saying yes for reasons of us reaching and clinging to something because we still feel like we have something to. To prove to somebody. Whereas when you're in a place where you have absolutely nothing to prove, it's so liberating because you are in that place where you make decisions that feel good for you. And like we were saying at the beginning, when you're following that, you end up with a really concrete group of people around you because those are the people that you kept saying yes to and that kept seeing you in that. Or when you start speaking your truth, the people that stick around those, the people you want to be dropping in with, not the people that, that are offended because you spoke your truth or are feeling some kind of way about it. And that is so much more fulfilling and a great place to create connection from versus when you're always saying yes for reasons outside of yourself. It can. You're giving, giving, giving, giving. It's the emptiest feeling in the world.

Oh my God. Well, I love how the universe just kind of tied a natural little advocate for yourself in all areas. Bow on this. Like truly, that just. It gave me goosebumps and made me want to cry. Like how beautiful just that message is of being selfish is actually the most in that arena.

Right?

Like really listening in. I believe that that, that moment of really listening in is actually that is you leaning into your gifts. Like it's you saying yes in full receiving of your gifts from God or universe or whatever you believe. And that is like the blessing will continue when you do that because he. It is so glad that you're using what you were given and what you're here for. And so advocating for your gift is really what it is. And it's being spoken to you through your friend's circle, through what you need, through what you need to pay attention to. Because, Natalie, I know whatever season you're in, you're going to show up in a way that just like you did on this podcast, like completely rocked my world and shifted people. And that's because you listened to like you listened to the change instead of resisting it, pushing against it, being upset about it, not knowing what the hell this experience was. Like you really asked and you sat and you were patient and that was probably very challenging and you listened and you allowed and this was just such a beautiful conversation for me and lesson. So is there anything that you want to leave everyone with?

I think you really tied it up. I'm grateful that you give me the space to just speak really freely. This, this felt great. And I, I just hope that people do take away the message of, you don't need to go through a big shift like this to get quiet and to re examine priorities or relationships or certain things in your life. You don't need to wait for that thing to happen to you, but just start integrating it in your daily life, whether it's a walk, whether it's five minutes before you turn on the tv, whether that's a bath, whatever it takes. Just get quiet for a little bit. That can bring about something. Some really monumental shifts as well.

Oh, I'm so grateful for you. And you guys. One of the biggest gifts that we can give to our guest is to give her a shout out on Instagram. Let her know what your takeaway was from this. Like, what moved you? What are you taking away from it? What did you learn? And where do you want them to follow you? What's your Instagram handle?

Yeah, they can follow me at I Am Natalie on Instagram. And then we also have the Boss Babe podcast, which you mentioned. They can find us over there as well.

Amazing. You guys, we're gonna put the podcast in the show notes as well. You have to go and listen. It is one of my top favorite podcasts that I listen to. Literally obsessed. And definitely let Natalie know what your biggest takeaway was.

We're so grateful for you.

And until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone.

Sa.