Cara Alwill, aka @thechampagnediet, On Approaching Relationships As A High-Achieving Woman

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I think we could be a little bit easier on men when it comes to dating. Personally, I think that a lot of women go in like guns blazing on dates, like with this checklist of these, like, you know, 9 million things that they're requiring in a partner. And they go in with this very masculine approach and then they kind of scare guys off.

Welcome back to the show. I have such a fun one for you today, you guys.

So I booked this podcast with my.

Friend Kara Allwell in literally four days. After the podcast, I was going to New York where she lives, and I said, you know what, I'm coming out there to speak. And also we're going to the Pencils of Promise gala. And I said, I have some extra tickets, would you want to go? And she's like, yes. I didn't even, didn't ask, like when what?

None of it.

She just leaped and said yes. And I'm so glad because we had the best time catching up and spending time together, doing something for a good cause as well. So you guys, this conversation today is so much fun. It is all about relationships. Whether you are in a relationship right now with somebody or you are dating or you're like, I don't even need to be thinking of a relationship right now. This is really, really a great conversation because it's the perspective of where I'm at in my relationship. She had recently gotten a divorce and is back out in the dating world. So she's talking about dating now as a very success woman who's very fulfilled already in what she's doing in life and all of the different challenges that that can also bring. So you guys send this to your girlfriends if they are starting to date or looking to date. This was just really, really powerful. Not just to hear, but also for me in a relationship who obviously wants to continue and make my relationship better. So Kara Alwell is a worldwide best selling author, host and creator of the top rated podcast Style your Mind. She was an early voice in the female driven movement, and she continues to be a leader in the space, liberating women to their intuition, create their own opportunities. And she empowers her readers and her clients to stop waiting for the big break and instead publish your own book, start your own podcast, host your own panels, and design your own clothing line, start your own store, whatever that is that you desire. You guys, I tend to send everybody who is thinking of writing a book to Kara because she just talks so much. Not only about what we talk about today in relationships and has great perspective, but she was one of the leaders in self publishing and actually is known for self publishing her book and blowing up so much through self publishing that it was actually in high demand by publishers. So, you guys, that's another cool story as well. But let's get into today's conversation all about getting back into the dating world, getting into relationships, and being in relationship as a woman who is really successful and wants to go for it, and just how that can really create some interesting contrast in relationships. So let's get started.

Kara, it's so awesome to have you back on the show again. It's been too long. I feel like this is like our. We need, like, an annual podcast, like a girl date.

I know it has been forever, and I'm so excited to chat with you. I feel like so much has changed over the past couple of years. So really, really excited to just, like, dig into all the things.

Yes. Oh, my gosh, you guys. And Kara is one of the most amazing authors and she has such a cool story about self publishing as well. You're the woman that I send, like, everyone to go either talk to or to go research if they are thinking of doing a book. Because I think you give such incredible light to, you know, do you want to self publish? Do you want to go through a publisher? You're so real about it. And Ron, you also have just a really cool story, but you got. That's not what we're talking about today. Even though if you want to go read some amazing books, we've got Girl Code. Like, this is the original author of Girl Code. How cool is that Girl on Fire. And, like, she owns the place. But today, what are we talking about, Kara?

We are talking about dating and relationships, which is such new territory for me to talk about publicly. I mean, I've been talking about this with my girlfriends for ages, like, we all have. But I am really excited to dig into it specifically around why so many successful women have trouble dating. It has been A topic I've been obsessed with. I have done extensive research on and I just can't wait to kind of shed light on what I think is going on in the dating scene, specifically with high achieving women and how we can approach it differently.

Okay, so when we were chatting about what we should talk about, you guys, we were dming like back and forth, like, what can we talk about? We could talk about the typical thing.

You're like, you're.

Because you've got like, you definitely have some zones of genius that are exciting. And I was like, you know what? This relationship one is so awesome and so important because I have so many high achieving friends and just really successful friends who really struggle in this arena. Number one, I just want to record this for them. And so I can also understand, but it is a real thing and I don't want people to feel alone in this. And also, like, my husband can't make friends fast enough. It's like the eternal question is, does your husband have any friends? I'm like, you guys, like, there's only a couple to start with, so. Okay, so, Kara, why do so many total package women struggle in finding love in relationships? Especially if we've waited a little bit longer, Whatever that looks like, whatever situation they find themselves in.

Okay, I think there are a couple of things and I want to sort of break them down into different buckets. First, I want to start with something that I think needs to be said. I think that all of the dating books, all of the dating content out there has given us massive complexes, right? So when we think about like the classic dating books, and I've read them all because I've been re. I've been divorced just so everybody kind of knows my background. I was married for 10 years and I got divorced right in the beginning of the pandemic, before it even happened. So January of 2020, my husband and I went our separate ways. It was very amicable. We, we're still really good friends. But I decided to go off on my own. I was turning 40 that year, so I was in a very different position from when I was, you know, 30 getting married. I've accomplished a lot through the years, so I felt like I was going to have no issue dating. I was like, I'm just going to get right back out there. I'm going to meet this really successful guy and he's going to vibe with me and everything's going to be perfect. That didn't happen. And I found myself getting a lot of dates. You know, I don't think it's hard for successful, well adjusted, happy, attractive women to find men. Right? That's not really the problem. The problem is how do we get past the first date? How do we get into that conversation with a guy where we're starting to talk about our achievements and our accomplishments and we start to feel them go cold, Right? Like, I've been on first dates where I've been out with these incredible men who are super successful, and I immediately start sharing what I'm doing in my life and I feel like it has now become a competition, you know, and they're one upping me and they're uncomfortable with my success or they're really impressed with it. But then I don't hear from them again. They ghost me. So I started researching all of the dating content that was out there because I'm like, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Like, I'm all about personal development. I want to learn, I want to grow. So I read all of the books. I started with why Men Love Bitches, which everybody has read and never read it.

Is it good? What's it about? Give me just.

Okay, so it's really just about women stepping into their power. But I think, I think her core message is really true and important, right? Women should see themselves as the prize. Women should never chase a man. We shouldn't smother a man. I agree with all of that. But there so many what she calls attraction principles in the book that I just don't agree with. Like, she literally says, you should only ever serve a man popcorn in a tupperware bowl for the first six months of the relationship. You should never cook for him. You should never go out of your way for him. She believes that men will test women in the beginning. Like, they'll not call them, they'll play these games. And I just felt like all the advice in that book was inauthentic. I feel like anytime someone is telling you how to be to achieve an end goal, it just to me doesn't feel aligned. It doesn't feel right.

I'm not serving popcorn to anyone ever.

And I'm an entertainer.

Like, I was like, wait a second.

I love a good cheese board. This means I can't make my date a cheese board. Like, what that means I'm trying too hard. It just felt so disconnected to me.

Yeah, totally, totally. Okay.

Yeah. And it felt like we were pitting, felt like we were being pit against men. And it felt like a game. And I was like, this just doesn't work for me. And Then we all know he's just not that into you, whether you've read the book or you saw the movie. That book, I think, made us all feel like we were batshit crazy for thinking this guy was so into me. And then he just ghosted. And the only answer was, well, he's just not that into you. And through my research and my findings, I have learned that that is not always the case. That's not always the full answer, and sometimes that's not the answer at all. So I think all these books have really taught us to go against our own intuition and to follow these rules and these strategies and become someone that we necessarily are not. And listen, you can follow the rules, but, like, can you sustain that fore if that's not really who you are?

So kind of like, figure out, like, you're not going to want to serve popcorn and Tupperware your entire life. He's going to be like, where did that girl go? And you'll be like, oh, she was fake.

Yeah, exactly. She was a product of a book I read once, you know, and something else to keep in mind. These books were written so long ago, so why Men Love bitches came out 20 years ago.

Oh, wow.

Okay. Yeah, he's just not that into. Came out 18 years ago. So the dating landscape has changed dramatically since then. Right. Like, modern dating is so different. Women now have so many options and so many choices. A lot of women don't want children. They don't see the need to get married. I mean, we need to remember that marriage was initially an economic decision. Right? It was an agreement. It was a business partnership. And it's different now. Women are getting married by choice or not at all. And we are fiercely independent. We are so focused on our careers. And that's great, and it's wonderful for us. But I think for men, it poses a challenge because men are wired and were raised to feel like they need to be the provider. So many men that you speak to are like, well, I need to provide something, and if I can't provide something for this woman, I am not valuable. And there's research that backs this up. Like, no matter how much men say they want an equal partner, studies find that women who are, you know, superior to men in career and education, they. Men feel emasculated, they feel inferior.

This is so interesting because I feel like even in my relationship, I've had to learn throughout our marriage, which you guys, oh, my gosh, we've been married 18 years, but together, like, 20 or 21. And Kara I feel like I have had to like focus on like reassessing how I show him that he's valuable. The more that I became successful, like things that I normally wouldn't say, I've had to learn how to start saying and appreciating them for. It's not that I don't, it's that I had to learn a whole new way of appreciating, like the new roles that him and I had both stepped into because we had changed so much. It's really interesting. So I'm so curious about that. So it's like, how do we, what do we do in that case?

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So I think first it's just having that level of understanding, right? There's more research that I think is so fascinating. Laura Parks did some research where she asks men, like, what do they want in a woman, right? Who is your ideal woman? And nearly every single man said he wants the total package girl, right? He wants the girl who's financially independent, has her own thing going on, Boss, babe, boss energy. But when those men were presented with an opportunity to meet those women or have a date with those women, they lost interest. So she calls it psychological distance. And basically psychological distance is like this abstract idea of having what you want but not actually attaining that thing. So that is number one, right? Understanding that, that's just common research studies that show this, it's not just an opinion, right? And I think I've experienced it. You've probably experienced it. Anyone listening has experienced it. And it really dates back to like the way that we were raised and how our self esteem was built, you know, as men and women. So if you think about the language that is used with children, our parents use like emotionally based and encouraging language with us growing up as little girls, right? Like it was like very much about relationship building and learning how to work together with, you know, your friends and with men, little boys, it was very much like performance based language. Like, did you win or we're proud of you if you succeeded in this and if you lost in something, you know, you've got to work harder. So men were really raised to think that their worth is attached to how much money they earn, what their career looks like, how much they've accomplished. They've got to be the best at everything. And that doesn't really leave them a lot of room to have that emotional capacity. So as they grow up, they start to feel like they need to be the best at everything and they've got to provide for us. And if a woman is outperforming them, they're naturally going to start competing with that woman. Right. It's not even like anything I think that they can control, and I don't think a lot of them are aware of this. So having the understanding, I think is for me. When I learned this, I was like. It was like every. Just light bulb went off in my brain and I was like, oh, my God, I've been blaming myself for so long on why a guy ghosted me or it didn't work out or, you know, something happened. I was like, is it. Is it me? Like, was I too fat? Was I too talkative? Was I too this? No, it's like, it's just. It was just the way that the dynamic was with us. So I think that we. This is going to sound a little bit controversial because we are in this world of like, you know, fuck this or screw that or, like, just like, let him go. This is a red flag. Walk away from this relationship. I think we could be a little bit easier on men when it comes to dating. Personally, I think that a lot of women go in, like, guns blazing on dates, like, with this checklist of these, like, you know, 9 million things that they're requiring in a partner. And they go in with this very masculine approach and. And then they kind of scare guys off. You know, I've had conversations. I don't know if you've ever talked to some of your girlfriends who are on dates. It's like, immediately they want to know, like, do you want to get married? Do you want children? Where do you want to live? And I think, listen, I'm not saying that we should date people who are completely on different pages than us. Like, there's levels to this. But I think when it comes down to relating to people, we have to remember we are relating to them. We're learning about them. We're sharing parts of ourselves and we're taking in parts of who they are. So maybe just kind of being a little bit more understanding and a little bit more compassionate to, like, where a man is coming from. If you are the breadwinner or if you are walking into a date and you are a very successful woman. And, you know, maybe he is, maybe he's not. It doesn't matter, like, what you're looking for. It really doesn't matter. It's just the way that you're making him feel. And I think that we can work with men on this. Like, I think there are ways to, like you said how you are with your husband, right? Like, using different language, letting him know that you value him for different things. Even if it's not like you are standing, standing in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant and he's coming home with like all the money, right? Like, and supporting you. So it's, it's like a relational thing.

You know, I love this so much because I actually 100,000,000,000% agree with what you're saying. Because I think sometimes we're doing all of the work on, trying to figure it out on, like, okay, because things have changed. Let's just like, put it on the table. Things have totally changed in the last 20 years. Like, growing up for me, I did not have role models of boss babes and all these different women. Like, that type of role model out there. I didn't even know what that looked like or how I should be acting in a relationship. So we're doing all of this around, like, who am I? How should I be acting? We should be strong, we should be powerful. But also in, I think of relationships, even with my girlfriends, like, I'm not going in guns blazing. Like, I want you to be this, this, this and this and this. Like, I would never have a friend. There is a bit of a dance that we have to do and an understanding and a conversation that has to be had around, like, hey, where are you coming from?

Exactly.

Tell me about how you were raised. Tell me about your beliefs. You know, I want to understand, what do you even think about women? Because I don't think that that is set either. I think when people meet someone that they are compatible with and they feel like a real connection to, I think that just starts the conversation where I feel like sometimes we can go into conversations. And I could see how it could be very easy for me to go into the conversation thinking that they're caught up, up or they should be caught up, when that's just not necessarily how it is. Maybe they were in more of a traditional relationship before, like an old school relationship, and we just want them to be like, on it. And I think that, you know, it's just like with. This sounds bad. I guess I shouldn't even say it, but I will. Like, it's like with our kids, like, they're not going to know if they've never had that past experience or with our friends. They're not going to know if they've never had that. I just think that we've lost the art of communicating effectively and really stepping in their shoes and understanding where they're at. Because I think there's so much more potential for any relationship, man or woman, friends, partners, whatever that looks like, completely.

And I think we're all just trying to find our place in this new world. You know, we are really, truly the first generation that are doing things completely different. So we need to have grace with ourselves. We have to give our partners grace. And listen, I want to caveat all of this with saying, like, I just did a podcast on why we need to stop dating potential. Because I see that also. I see the other end of the spectrum when women are like, oh, I'll just date whoever, you know, and then they wind up with somebody who's, like, toxic for them or, you know, unemployed and doesn't want to work and has no drive. Like, there's a difference, right? This conversation is really about men who want to be their best selves, who want to communicate, who want to be in healthy relationships. So I do want to caveat that now. I think what we need to do, too, is, like, I said, like, realize, like, sort of where we're at, understand where they at, and also realize, like, what our gifts are as women. We are the communicators. We are the little girls that were raised with that emotionally, you know, infused language. So that's our specialty. So it's not that we need to bear the brunt of carrying a relationship, but we need to kind of be the ones to create a safe space for men to feel vulnerable. You know, I've talked to so many guys. I'm doing my own research for my next book, like, on this topic. And I'm like, do you feel like you can be vulnerable with your partner? And a lot of them struggle. A lot of them struggle. They still have this feeling like they're gonna say the wrong thing or they're gonna get hurt or they're gonna open themselves up too much. So I think, you know, just as much as they wanna provide and they sort of wanna be, quote the man, we need to let them do that, but we also need to let them know that it's okay to bring out those more feminine qualities, those emotions, foreign.

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This is just really making me think, because I'm thinking back to all the conversations that Chris and I have, and we still have them. Because our dynamic changes, honestly, like, every single year. Because we're both stepping into different parts of ourselves and things that we've wanted to do. And it's kind of like we have this value conversation, both of us, because once in a while he'll be like, okay, well you're doing all of this, so you technically don't need me anymore. And while that's such a gift, I also need to know you need me. So in what ways do you need me?

Sometimes he'll just ask me. That's exactly. And I love that he asked you that. And I think that is like, you guys, like, have a very unique and, you know, uncommon kind of connection. Because I think like, that just shows Chris's, like, growth, right? His emotional, how evolved he is emotionally. But a lot of guys are still struggling, so being able to even say to your partner, hey, I love it when you support me emotionally, you know, Like, I love it when you're there for me. I love it when you listen to me talk about my concerns or my business or my challenges, like, that really makes me feel good. Something as simple as that as giving them that little pat on the back, you know, And I think that starts to help them understand what their role is in a relationship and what value they bring. And they start to shift from feeling like, you know, I have to like, you know, beat my hands on my chest like Tarzan and come home with like, you know, and make all the money and be like this, you know, old school, like probably what they saw their fathers doing, right? Because we're all modeling our parents to a certain degree and they get to embrace their new role, whatever that is. And I also think it's important to realize that relationships change and dynamics change. People lose jobs, they get new jobs, they, they make more money, they don't make as much money. Right. Like, it's not always going to be the same as when you first meet.

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I mean we had such a shift you guys. Chris and I will talk about this still because when I first married him, he was the breadwinner. Like I did not graduate high school. I did not have any self worth, if I'm being totally honest. Like I liked who I was, but I did not feel confident in the fact that I could like provide for myself over a certain arena, like, I could take care of myself. I lived alone, all the things, but I just felt a ceiling and a cap. Like I was. I wasn't going anywhere. That was my opinion of myself. And so when I met Chris, it was almost like a really weird. And not weird because I think a lot of people listening to this will totally understand. But it was almost like I had to go, like, above and beyond because I was like, he's the provider. Like, I have to make sure somehow I provide. The house needs to be clean. I need to do all of these other things, even if they weren't my. Even if I didn't like them. I was like, every day making sure things were tidy, and I would cook for. I would do the traditional, like, wife things. And I remember feeling, like, unworthy at times or needing to ask for money. And it actually irritated me so much. And I'm a Sagittarius. I'm like a freedom lover. So it made me actually start to resent him. And I was like, why do you resent him? Because he's not actually making me feel this way. But traditionally, I was so tied into that story that I knew that for myself to stop resenting him, I actually had to go and free myself and provide for myself in order for me to love him in the way that I knew I was supposed to be loving him with no constraints or no resentment. So that was a very interesting thing for me to learn, is that I was actually more resentful when I felt like he had to provide for me because I couldn't. It didn't feel like an equal value exchange for me, and I just needed to go out and do it myself. Anyway, long story short, there's so many layers there that I think we need to have more grace on each other and ourselves because it's probably even more layered than we even realize, for sure.

And I think, you know, when we're looking at potential partners and I listen, I want to also preface with saying, like, I don't have it all figured out. I'm figuring it out, and I'm just sharing what I've learned along the way. So it's not like I'm this expert in dating at this point. I'm just. I'm learning just like everyone else.

Experts, like, literally still, like, I'm like, wait, oh, so you wrote a book on marriage, but you're not married?

Got it. Got it. Okay. I know. And that's the thing, too. I don't think this is. My belief is that you cannot be an expert in relationships. Because the only two people that know what goes on inside of a relationship are those two people.

Amen.

Nobody can tell you what to do. No one can tell you how to be, how to show up. That's why I'm very hesitant with my clients, to give them any sort of prescriptive advice when they're dating or they're navigating relationships and. Or divorces, which I've coached people in as well. My goal is to get you to be as authentic as possible so that you can feel good about who you are and how you're showing up in that relationship and sort of deprogram yourself from all of this bullshit advice out there. You know, where we're being told, like, how to act and what to do and what to say, because that doesn't work, like we said earlier. Like, it's just not sustainable. So, like, what if you could just be yourself? How freeing would that be to go on a date and just be yourself?

Okay, I love that you mentioned that so much. Because if I can see one thing throughout relationships in my relationship, like, what you need to go through and work through is not like your friend. You know, if there's something that your spouse did that shitty or that you did that shitty, that might be your journey to go on together. And some people are like, oh, leave.

Him or leave her or whatever.

They suck. That's terrible.

Are they?

Or is that something that actually was, like, both of you needed to learn about it and you need to stick with each other, whatever that looks like. Like, that is not up to me to tell someone if they got cheated on or not. Like, leave that person. It's not. I try to make it a habit to, like, stay very biased because I just think relationships are our biggest teachers and everybody has to go through their own thing. And, you know, I've totally been that person who's like, oh, yeah, you. They cheated on you. Oh, they suck. I'm so glad you left them. And then they're back together.

So that's weird. Yeah, I completely agree. And this is the thing, too. It's so interesting that you bring this up. I had this conversation with one of my girlfriends yesterday. We are so quick to judge other people, right? We are so quick to dismiss men. Not when it comes to us, but to other people. Like, oh, he did this. Red flag, move on. I would never deal with that. I would never be in that situation. And it took me 42 years to be in all different types of dynamics in relationships. Situationships, relationships, hookup situations, friends, with benefits, committed situations, marriages, all of that. To understand that there is no linear path to love. Very few people meet, fall in love when they're young, get married and have a perfect relationship. In fact, nobody has a perfect relationship. So only you know what's best for you. Only you know when it's time to leave a relationship. Only you know when it's time to shift in a relationship. And I think the ultimate goal is just for two self aware people to get together and be willing to work on things and stick it out if that's what they choose. And, and also for two self aware people to be okay with saying this isn't working, you know, and move on and give each other space to grow.

Okay, so I have a question for you. So we have a girlfriend or someone even who's married and they're like, it seems to be from the outside looking in at first, extremely mismatched. You're like, she's the breadwinner. He doesn't seem like he's doing much. Like what is she doing? She should be with someone else else. When after you get on the inside, you're like, wow. Without that like either stable at home person or the way that that person is or the calmness that that person is. Like this girl would be a shit show. Like, yeah, like myself. So can we talk about that dynamic as well? Because I think what can happen sometimes. Now this is totally my opinion and like it's probably partially wrong because it always is whenever I give an opinion. But. But don't you think that sometimes we're writing people off way too soon and we're looking for almost like this entire package of men as well when it's like for our strengths to really shine, sometimes we need something we do not even realize. Like when I first met Chris, he was so opposite of what I thought I was supposed to be with. Except when I was with those people I thought I was supposed to be with. I was a nightmare. Like I hated who I was, was. So I'm going to leave that right there. What do you think?

I love that you're saying all this because I believe that if you, this is a little mindset shift that I think makes dating a completely different experience. Your partner should be complimentary to you, not somebody who is identical to you.

Yes, right.

So we often look for someone who like. And I, I made this mistake at first too. When I was going back out there. I was like, you know, I want somebody who has their own business. I want someone who is like passionate about what he does. And I want someone who goes to Soul Cycle and I want this and well, all those things would be great. I definitely want someone who's driven and ambitious. I don't need to meet my identical match. I just need to find somebody who compliments me and somebody who I compliment. So I do agree with being open minded because you really never know where that's going to come from. I think. A couple of questions to ask yourself. A really big thing to ask yourself is, is this person an expander? Does this person expand me? Does this person help me see things differently? Does this person help me see myself differently? It doesn't matter how much money they make or how tall they are. And those are like nice to haves. But I think women get really caught up in creating this perfect ideal man and this perfect ideal relationship that they close themselves off to seeing anything in a different way.

Okay, that is so incredibly good. And I have a question about the expander. Because whenever we think of expanders and it's like when we say that word and someone's listening who maybe doesn't. Hasn't fully had that in a relationship, right? Like, ah, I don't have someone who expands me. That's what I need. What we forget about expansion is, have you ever at Thanksgiving eaten way too much, it is uncomfortable and you can't wait for it to be over? And so that's the thing that I want to highlight about expansion is my husband is a huge expander for me, except it's usually really uncomfortable when he's doing it and sometimes it's really triggering and sometimes I can't stand him and then I have to step away from it and be like, okay, what can I get from this? Or was it his delivery or was it the, you know, the way that I was listening or Expansion requires so much communication. But I just want to share. Like even my friends who are expanders, it's not comfortable because they hold me to a higher standard or a different standard, or they force me to look at things differently.

Yes. And another question to ask yourself. Is it love or is it a comfort zone when someone is really in love with you and you're really in love with someone else else, you are expanding each other. You are having uncomfortable conversations. You are doing things that move the relationship forward. But when you're in a comfort zone and you're settling and many of us do this and you've fallen out of love with that person, but you're like, we've been together for 20 years, we share a Home. We've got kids. You block yourself off from growth because you're always just going to stay in this, like, this bubble that you've created with that person. And if you're not invested in each other, when you're really in love with somebody, you're investing in that person. You're investing in their growth. You're investing. Investing in their. You know, you want the best for them, whatever that looks like, and they should feel the same way about you. So if you find yourself in that situation, you're like, okay, well, what is really happening here?

So do you have an idea for yourself? Because now you've kind of been dating for a bit, which I can only imagine has been so interesting after being married. And let's just add the layer of living in New York as well.

Yeah. And let's add the idea of Apple apps. Like, dating apps are just a whole other conversation. They are. I've met some cool people on there. Nothing has worked out yet, but, I mean, that's a whole other thing because for me, I'm an energy person. When I meet someone, I want to feel your energy. I want to walk into a room and feel drawn to you. I want to know if we have chemistry. I want to see how the conversation flows. It's so disconnected to meet someone on an app. I don't believe you can truly feel somebody's energy. I think it's just a long shot. You might think they're attractive. You meet up, up, great. But sometimes that happens, and you meet up with someone who you're attracted to on the app, and then you meet them in real life, and you're like, there's just something off about this person. I don't like the way they carry themselves. They make me feel uncomfortable. So it's a lot.

That would be a lot. And I'm also, like, loving this conversation.

For that reason, just learning about it right now.

Okay, so tell me, what are you open to in a relationship that you weren't prior? Open to, like, meeting someone? Are you. You know, you said, like, okay, they don't have to have the same business as me. They don't have to be this. Is there something that you thought that you wanted before that? Now you're like, I actually think I need this trait to compliment this other trait of mine.

Yeah. It's funny you say that, because I always swore that I would never date someone with children, and I've completely changed my mind on that.

Wow.

Yeah. As I've grown and I've met, like, guy friends, with kids. And I admire the way that they raise their children. And I think that is such an incredible quality to see a good father. Right? Like, to me that is a whole other side of a man that I didn't grow up seeing. You know, my dad was out of the picture. I grew up in a single parent household. My dad did not take care of us. He left when I was 8. And I don't know why. I just always assumed like I wouldn't want somebody with kids. But as I've met more men with children, I'm like, wow, that's like a whole interesting side of someone that is really attractive to me.

What's something that you've realized about yourself that you were like, ah, okay, this is kind of where I'm noticing I was going wrong. And this is what I'm like, either softening into moving, into moving, moving, we're.

Moving in and shaking. And.

Something that you've noticed that you've just been like, oh, okay, I see. Like you find this natural groove.

I think I've been in a lot of long term relationships. Like I've just been in back to back long term things. So for me, realizing when a relationship does start to feel comfortable, how to nurture it, as opposed to just say, oh, this isn't working and walk away. I want to get better in my next relationship at sticking out the harder parts. If it's worth it, right? Not just for the sake of sticking it out. If, if me and that person feel like we still love each other and want to be together, how do we work through the parts that get kind of boring? Right? Like it's fun in the beginning, it's honeymoon phase, you're dating the first couple months, everything's fun. But then there's always going to be a challenge. It might be a family issue, it might be your past emotional baggage, you get triggered by something, your traumas, whatever. How do you work through that with someone? And I have a tendency to just shift the focus back to me and become like, you know, workaholic, Throw myself into my business, not deal with the shit in relationships that always ultimately come up. So I want to get better at really giving my relationship the same attention and respect and love and care that I give other areas of my life. Foreign.

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How do you think that women listening, if they're totally relating with you right now? How are you approaching this now? Like, what is the way to move forward in which to kind of start? Do you believe calling in the person or relationship that you want?

I think just having this new understanding of how men operate and how they work and not feeling so combative about it, right? Like not taking everything so personally and being like, oh, he didn't call me or he didn't text me today or he just disappeared for a few months. Like, this is a really interesting thing. I'm reading this book called the Love Gap. It's really good. Everybody should read it. That's vibing with this conversation. She talks about a lot of these studies and she talks about people, different types of relationships and men that maybe meet this girl who is the total package and then they sort of go away and they may be orbit for a little while, right? And they show up and maybe they text you every two months. I used to see that and I would immediately be like, he's talking to other women. Women. He's doing his thing. Like, he's keeping me on the back burner. But what I realized after this, this woman actually interviewed men who were doing that. And, like, all of them said, I just knew I wasn't ready for this girl yet. And I was getting my shit together in the background, and I didn't want to lose her. So I would text her every now and then or hang out with her every now and then. And they weren't even. It's not even like they were hooking up. It was like they just wanted to sort of make sure you were there. And I've had a lot of guys do this to me, and I always took it as such an insult. And now I'm like, oh, wait a second. Maybe he was sorting his shit. Maybe he was figuring out, like, I need to get a new job or I need to find a new place. Like, there's certain men and women also think differently. And this is so fascinating to me. Men think very. In, like, a very linear way. So, like, they feel like they need to accomplish one thing. Like, they need a job, they need to make six figures, or they need their own apartment, or they need certain things before they can commit to, you know, their ideal woman. Women think very differently. We're very abstract, creative thinkers, so we can be working on, like, five different things at the same time and be able to shift in and out of those things. We can work on something that's a lower priority instead of a higher priority. So we think much more abstract in relationships. You know, I know for me, like, I don't care how much money a guy makes. Like, that's not important to me. I can be with someone who's making less than I'm making and still be okay as long as they're meeting my other needs that are, you know, important to me. Emotional support, somebody that's loyal, somebody that's caring and kind of. So going into my next relationship, I think I'm just going to not take everything so personally and just use this knowledge and understanding to give me a greater perspective of what I'm dealing with and not always blame myself and make it about me.

Oh, my gosh. I love that we can, like, personal development ourselves to death. Like, we can really think we understand everything, even though we're like, no, I can see that perspective. I recently, like, I guess I totally took the stance on when I would look at relationships, if one person's, like, not committing or dragging their feet, I was always like, okay, like, Leave. Like they're not, they're not kind of like the, the book or the movie or whatever. I'm like, if a guy is into you, like he'll show you and he, he'll like freaking climb Mount Everest for.

You if he can. If he can. Not everyone can.

It's so interesting because recently my mind has been blown. Not mentioning any names, but I'm like, oh my God, I'm literally seeing how this person has to check certain things off in their entire life in order to move forward, like, like to a stumbling block point. And I was like, for the first time, I was like, oh my God, this is how this type of brain works. And my mind was, I was like, oh no, he's massively in love with this person. But at the same time he, this is like how he responds in everything. So. So I'm just like learning new things every single day.

And I get really frustrated with the. I'm sure you've heard this term. If he wanted to, he would, right?

Yeah.

And there are a lot of women out there. There's a lot of like TikTok dating advice. And you know, it's just opinions. It's just all opinions. It's. It's really coming from people's own perspective. And I think that's something so important to note when it comes to relationships. That's why I really try not to give advice based on my own experiences, even though that's so hard to do. But I want to empower you to make your, your own personal decisions. I think discernment is like one of the best qualities you can have, knowing what's right for you and your journey. But there's a lot of people out there saying, well, if he wanted to, he would. And that's not always the case because sometimes he's just not there yet. Sometimes he's just not ready. He hasn't ripened into that man he's going to become. And it doesn't mean you should sit around and wait for him. It doesn't mean that you should stop your life for somebody. But it just having that understanding, I think is so important. People come back around. You know, you hear those stories all the time. Time college sweethearts or people that were together in their 30s or people that were in long term relationships, broke up, met up again five years later, 10 years later, 20 years later. So the way you would want somebody to give you space to grow and change, you have to be willing to give that to them too.

So good. And I'm just thinking that in terms of like, we write people off so quickly we do the same thing. I'm listening to you and I'm like, we do the same thing in friendships all the time. Like, if you are not like this, well, then you're out of my life. Like, we don't do that with other. Like, we have to let things kind of like acknowledge where it's at right now, but not put it in a box. Like, okay, that's not where I'm at. I wish it was somewhere different. But we're just going to leave that right there and know it's there and continue on with your life. I think this is like with any goal that you have. I think we're always waiting for something to be perfect when it's never going to be perfect and we have to keep moving forward step by step. Like, that's gotta be how you feel in the relationship world is like, okay, we're just gonna plant. You're planting seeds just like a business. Literally, like, you're just planting seeds and seeing what comes about.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

And we don't have to be so harsh so early on. I think that's something else to note. Like, you're getting to know this person. Dating should be fun. I think we forget that, like dating is supposed to be fun. You're getting to know someone, you're trying to see if they're a good fit for you. You don't have to sit there with a checklist and immediately call everything a red flag and block his number and cut him off and unmatch him or whatever. You know, just take a minute, take a beat. Like, get to know this person, give him a little bit of grace. Again, like you would want a little bit of grace. And again, to caveat it, I'm not saying you should be with someone that's completely wrong for you, but there are certain things we can work with. Right? Like you've got to have. There's non negotiables and then there's, you know, other things like nice to haves and understanding where you fall in that, that you know and what's important to you and just letting your guard down a little bit. It doesn't have to be so serious all the time.

I love that because in anything, it's like looking at Chris's traits now, it's like, number one, majority of them weren't on my radar. Number two, majority of them I didn't know I needed. And number three, now he freaking crushes it in those arenas so much. That I find other people or friendship for. Maybe the things that I'm not getting fulfilled within from him. Like, I find it in a friendship or I find it in business, or I go out and seek something like, you know, that's going to fulfill me in that arena myself.

So, yes, that's such a great point, Lori. I love that you said that, because our partner's not going to check every box and fill every single thing that we need. They're just not. And you're not going to do that for them. And you shouldn't. You know, that whole saying, like, oh, he's my other half, like, that's not right. You know, you should be a whole person. They should be a whole person. And you come together and you click in certain ways, and they expand you, and they just make your life a little bit better. That's all that we're really looking for.

It just looks so different than what I thought. When women ask me, like, you know, how'd you guys come together? I'm like, I just was open because the first six months we were together, we were just friends because I was like, oh, hell no. Meaning, like, he just was so different than anyone I've ever dated that I was like, oh, this guy is friend zoned for life. But, man, he's keeping me company right now while I'm sad over this ex boyfriend.

And.

I love that I've done it. And it just blew my mind. Like, he was just. I kept him around. Like, truly. I was being honest with him. I was so honest. I was like, look, I know that you want more. I do not. I think you're the one of the most amazing humans I've ever met. But we're never moving beyond this. And I'm so glad that I kept that relationship open because it changed on a dime for me literally overnight. And it was love them. It was so unexpected. Like, I wouldn't have had any of my money on it. So look at.

I mean, I hate to, like, use a celebrity example, but, like, look at Courtney and Travis, right? Kourtney Kardashian. Like, they were friends for eight years, and she was like, no, I would never go out with him. I'd never go on a date with him. And, like, now they're madly in love, so you really never know what can happen. One of my favorite mantras when it comes to relationships and dating is things can change in an instant. Things can change in an instant. People change, people grow, Right? Yeah, you're dating that person in the present moment. But if they are willing to work on themselves. That's the big difference. If somebody, if you're dating potential, if that potential is never going to take action steps and doesn't want better for themselves, you shouldn't want that person's success more than they want it. But if that person is willing to grow with you, that's all that you can ask for.

So good. Yeah, my. I have to share my instinct because it's hilarious. Some people think like fairy tales. Like we had gone out the night before. We were young when we met, obviously, but who cares? No judgment here. So we had gone out the night before, gotten so shit faced and the next day we went to a casino buffet because buffets were like our thing living in Wisconsin. And literally I was sitting across from him feeling so shitty and hungover. And I looked at him and I was like, oh my God, like there's nobody else that I want to feel good with. There's no one else I want to feel shitty with. There's no one else that I just like on the worst day or the worst moment like that I could still have fun with no matter what. And it just like lightning bolt.

I love that. And I love that you started off as friends. I am like a huge fan of like friends first, you know, even situationship for a little while like that. Things don't always turn into a relationship. Not every man is ready to commit at that minute. Not every woman is ready to commit at that minute. I'm not ready to commit and get married again. It's going to take me a while.

Yeah.

But I'm open. Just like you said, staying open, like to everything in life. Right? Because when we're open, we only have room for growth when we have a fixed mindset. Mindset, you know, versus a growth mindset. There's so many similarities with business and dating. And if you can approach your dating life the way you approach your business in some ways, not always, but in the ways of like welcoming growth, always being willing to, to learn more, you know, putting yourself out there, taking the risk. No risk, no reward.

Oh my God, I feel like I could talk to you forever because there's just so many topics that are coming up for me right now, just even around. Okay, so I'll ask you on this one. When I was first with Chris, I was like, I'm independent, don't open doors for me. Like, I hated it. I hated it to my core. He'd come around and like I thought it was fake because I'd never had a guy do that before. And I was like, you don't need to put that show on for me. And he's like, I grew up this way. He's like, can you just. He literally stopped and looked at me. He was like, can you just let me do the things that I enjoy in this relationship? Can you try it on? Could you just try and let me do it? Because I enjoy it. And I was like, oh. Like, okay.

And I like, oh, it's not all about me. What? Seriously?

I look back, I was so, like, selfish in this relationship. But to this day, he still opens doors, and I have learned to love it. And that's just a way that he shows he loves me. But I can tell you, in the beginning, I was like, ew, stop putting on a show. And I could have gotten in my own way over and over again, again with stuff like that.

We do. And I think that's why communication is so important, because he told you it meant something to him, and you respected that and you let him do it. You know, it's like paying on a date. And there's a lot of controversy over who should pay. And, you know, I personally like it when the guy pays on the first date, and that makes me feel good. And when I'm with some. And I could pay for that day ten times over, right? But I just. I like that. That makes me feel comfortable. It makes me feel loved. It makes me feel feel cherished, respected. And I know that if I'm with a guy who wants to pay on the first date, we're a good match, you know? And again, it's not about who can or who can't. It's just the gesture. So sometimes those little gestures and being on the same page about those things are important. And I always offer, you know, I'll always take my wallet out and say, can we split this? And, you know, nine times out of ten, he's like, no. Like, I've got this. And it just feels good. So those little things, you know, we've got to acknowledge that. And it's just about being with someone who vibes with us and, you know, is. Likes to do those similar things and being open, like you said, where if it's not something that you feel comfortable with, listening to your partner, hearing them out, you know, compromise is a huge part of relationships, too. And I think we forget that.

Okay, any last words? I know we could. This is like your. We need your book about this.

But any last words?

Kind of like you're like, oh, I got to get that in I mean.

I'll just reiterate, like, throw away all the books. Not mine, the other books. Throw away the rules. Stop watching TikTok. Stop, like, talking to your friends about it and just trust your intuition. Women have such incredible intuitive senses. Trust yourself. Like, you know the way. Let yourself make mistakes. Follow that path that might not look conventional. I think there are so many benefits to unconventional relationships, you know, like, even with you and Chris being friends first. Let it flow, let it happen. You never know what lies ahead.

So good. Thank you so much for coming on, you guys. I'm going to hook up all of her links and books and all the things in the show notes, go check them out. Such good reads. I love them. Like, thank you. Not you guys. Go read the books.

For sure.

When you have your podcast. What's the name of your podcast?

Style your mind.

Style your mind. So you guys can go follow. Do all of the things she's this brilliant times 10 on all of her stuff as well. And I'm so grateful for you.

You.

Thank you.

Thank you, Lori. I love talking to you. Thank you for having me. And thanks everyone for listening.

Same, same, same. Okay, guys, so one of the things that you can do as a gift to our guest is just to let her know what your biggest takeaway was. Tag her on Instagram. What's your Instagram handle?

The Champagne diet.

The Champagne diet, you guys. So give her a tag. Let her know if this rocked your world and changed your life. And until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone.

Fun.