Chasing The Life You Want & Practicing Boldness As A Habit With Bestselling Author Jennifer Cohen

Even me now, of course, you know, like it's a. It's a work in progress. I still get self doubt. I still get those same feelings, but most of the time I won't let that stop me. But when it does, I feel even worse because to me, rejection is always better than regret.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for tuning in. I know there's a million different shows that you could choose in. The fact that you chose this one makes me really, really happy that I have someone to talk to and that I get to share this incredible journey with you and this amazing human that I interviewed today. Her name was Jennifer Cohen, and I got on this podcast knowing that we had a lot in common. But I swear, sometimes you meet people who literally have lived the same life that you have lived and this woman is that person. I'm like, every time she opened her mouth, I'm like, I have this same story or very similar story. So Jennifer Cohen is a best selling author, brand strategist, international speaker and educator with a specific focus on building healthy habits to drive positive behavioral change. I love this about her because I am so focused on building habits right now and really taking a deep dive into exactly what my habits are. And I think that you'll be surprised when you really start start looking at them and thinking about it. She's one of the 100 most influential people in health and fitness and she is also the CEO of Suprema. You guys, I can't wait for you to meet this woman. I cannot wait for you to listen in to this podcast. So let's jump right in and get started. Jennifer, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

So excited to be here. I'm so excited to finally meet you in kind of person. Quasi.

No, this is. We're going to actually make it real. So this is our official, like, zoom meeting. We're going to have to meet in person. I'm so excited to chat to a fellow fitness former fitness all the things person, along with podcaster, along with businesswoman, along with preacher of boldness. I am so excited, you guys. I was just telling her before we jumped on. I've been asking you a lot on Instagram, what you guys want to here and what you need in your life right now. And most all of the questions pertain to just needing permission to go bigger, to go for the thing, to make the boundaries, to say no to the things that you actually want to say no to so that you have Room for the yeses. So Jennifer has an incredible book called Bigger, Better, Bolder and I'm so excited to talk about this topic. Jennifer, tell me how this came up because I know when a book starts, starts to talk to you like, hey, I need to come out into the universe. There are multiple reasons and multiple things going on in your life that have to do with this book and why it comes out. So what was that for you?

So for me what happened was Lori was about two and a half years ago, I was asked to do a TED Talk. And that's not something that happens. Usually what happens is you have to apply to do a TED talk. It's a full process. Right. But I was fortunate enough that someone came to me and said they heard of me through somebody else and they thought I would make a good speaker. And they said, what would you like to speak about? Would you like to speak about this and fitness, that and health, like all the things, right. That you and I spoke about offline and I said, no, I don't want to speak about that. I want to speak about something that's way bigger, that's really the umbrella. And the reason why I've had success in fitness and what I noticed was not just in fitness, but the through line for any success I've ever had has been the fact that I was bold enough to go after something and, and just kind of do the ask, do the action. And I wanted to really have that to be the topic. Well, lo and behold, I did it and the talk went viral and it got such great feedback that I decided to create a book around it because it was resonating with so many people who felt that they were stuck or that their self doubt for going after something was preventing them from having the life that they wanted. And what this whole book represents and what boldness is, is really permission to your point, to put yourself in that situation, put yourself out there to ask for what you want, not to acquiesce to what's available or live the life that's good enough. But you, you as a person, are you going to take agency and take ownership and curate and design the life that you actually want? And that really requires being bold.

Okay, so I can think of a couple bold moves in my career where people did not, like, they did not see them, they just assume like, oh, how did you get that? Or how did you win that?

Or whatever.

And it's like I can remember the moments that I did things that I know other people were not doing or willing to do. So can you tell me a couple. I know that there's. I know that for you to be here, there's been hundreds of bold moves that obviously we're going to talk about how you've built up to that, how it's become a skill set, all of those things. But what were some of the big bold moves that you did that you're like, holy shit, that moved the needle?

I'll tell you the first one. One of the big ones, to be honest, was what kind of got traction a lot was when I was really young, I was 17 years old, and at the time, I wanted to be a VJ for much music. I don't know. It's like, oh, I love it. You know what? Much music is like mtv, but okay.

Amazing, okay.

And I'm like, how am I going to even get noticed? Every. At the time, it was the most coveted job, right? Everyone wanted to be a VJ or be like the Carson Daly we know at the time. And I had to make a demo tape, and I had to create a demo tape that would be looked at when thousands of people, they were doing an open search around the country. And so I was like, okay, well, how am I going to be noticed? How am I going to even, like, stand out? And while that was happening, Keanu Reeves was in my hometown, and he was at the. You know, at the precipice of his career. It was after speed, and he was like, the hottest thing in the world. And I got it into my head that I was going to have Keanu Reeves on my demo tape, and he would be like, my. My key to getting this amazing audition and having this. This great job. And I put it out there, and everyone laughed at me, including my family and close friends. But I stood outside where he was performing at the time. He wanted to do, like, Shakespeare, so that's why he came to my hometown. And I waited outside for him for, like, 45 minutes to an hour in the minus 50. I'm from Winnipeg, Manitoba. Super cold, like, minus 45. Crazy. And I waited outside with the audacity that I was going to get him to do it. And I brought a girlfriend with me, and she, like, lasted seven minutes. She's like, screw this. I'm not waiting outside. You're on your own. And I waited and waited. Finally, after, like, 45 minutes, he came out. There was a bunch of, like, paparazzi, a bunch of people. I just wiggled my way in. I went up to him. I kind of, like, tugged on his jacket and I. And he's like, oh, do you want an autograph? No, I don't want an autograph. I need your help. I need you to help me create this demo tape. And he was super confused. And then he basically was just like, okay, you know, just give me your phone number and I'll call you about it. And I wrote my number down on a gum wrapper with an eyeliner and I left and I told all my friends. Everyone laughed at me. Oh my God, how silly. You're so naive. Why would he do this? Literally the next day at school, I got laughed at the second day and third day. Well, on the fourth day he actually called me.

Oh my God.

I left a message on my answering machine. Two and then cut two. I went to pick him up in my mother's Cutlass Supreme. Took them back home.

Yes.

My mom made him lunch and he did a two hour interview with me where all my two friends who didn't laugh at me were standing in the sides of my house with their, like, you know, the camcorders, like doing the little thing. And then I edited this video together and I sent it off. I got the audition and then like you have to kind of like the story goes on and on. But the reason why I use that as my example is it was such an audacious thing for a 17 year old kid to think. Yet I did it because I didn't have any wherewithal to think or know what would ever happen. Like it was my naivety that was actually my strength. And when I got the interview and I got him, I got him, was the actual thing. It showed me that having that boldness, you never know unless you try. Crazier things have happened. Why not me? It's like a reframe of my thought. And that proved to me that anything is possible if you put yourself out there and not have all the information. And at the end of the day, it's not about your talent or your intelligence. It really is about just making the shot, making the effort. And from that moment on, I try. I still do. It's a work in progress sometimes. But to not let an opportunity pass me by because I'm scared or fearful or because I have self doubt, that is so good.

That actually made me tear up a little bit because I'm just thinking about how often we could be getting yeses if we put ourselves out there in that way. And especially like I was putting myself in his shoes in that moment. Like it was probably such a refreshing ask, like, wow, this girl wants to do something. With her career, like, and can see, like she's really a go getter. Like, you know when people, and I know this for you as well, when people ask you certain things that are very pointed and they know what they want, I want to help them. It's when it's very confusing or they don't know and they want you to do all the work, it's like, okay, well tell me what you need and I'd love to be a catalyst in your care.

You're absolutely right. So when I asked him later on, like, why did you help me? Like, what was the reason? And he said that it was the desire in my eyes, like it was a fire that I had. And I was so specific. Like, it wasn't like me being wishy washy. I was very specific. And to your point, I totally agree with you. Because when you come out at something and you know exactly what that is, it also gives people an opportunity to help you and to like assist you in a way. But when people are too like all over the place and they're not that they don't know themselves, it's like, help me help you. I can help you if you don't know yourself what that is, right? Yes. And the world opens up to you. Opportunities open up to you in a real way. When you really step into that light and allow those things to happen to you.

2026 is the year that you launch your business. It's the year that you've become the.

Boss, you become the leader.

Idea that you have that has been eating at you forever, that just will not leave you alone is going to come to life. Maybe it's something that someone tells you you should always sell or a store you've already designed in your head. And with Shopify, 2026 is when you finally make it happen. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap from household name to first time business owners. Just getting started, you guys. I use Shopify for glossy and I remember when they sent me my little shopping bag celebrating my 10,000 sales and I literally cried because I was so scared to take the leap. And I'm so glad that I did.

And that I use Shopify.

It gives you all the tools to easily build your dream store. You can choose from hundreds of beautiful templates that you can customize to match your brand setup is fast. With Shopify's built in AI tools that write product descriptions and headlines and help you edit photos. So marketing is built into. You can Create email and social campaigns that reach customers wherever they scroll. So as you grow, Shopify grows with you. You can handle more orders, expand to new markets and do it all from the Same dashboard in 2026. Stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com happy go to shopify.com happy that's shopify.com happy hear your first cha ching this new year with Shopify by your side. There are so many challenges to business that I don't want starting to be.

One of them for you.

And when you want more, when you're starting a business, you need Northwest Registered Agent because you get access to thousands of free guides, tools and legal forms to help you launch and protect your business. And it's all in one place. You can build your complete business identity with Northwest today. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow business for nearly 30 years. They're the largest registered agent and LLC service in the US with over 1500 corporate guides. Real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. You can sign up for free account to begin managing your business hub with lawyer drafted operating agreements, bylaws, resolutions, membership certificates, bills of sale and more at no cost. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business, they give you the free tools you need after you form it, like operating agreements, meeting minutes and thousands of how to guides that explain the complicated ins and outs of running a business. And let me tell you, this is life changing because I had no no idea how much went into this. So don't wait. Protect your privacy, build your brand and get your complete business Identity in just.

10 clicks and 10 minutes.

Visit www.northwestregisteredagent.com Earn free and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest registered agent at www.northwestregisteredagent.com forward/earfree oh my God.

Okay, so the people listening right now who are like okay, well she did that and she got a yes. Obviously. We know there were probably many asks before that that you hadn't gotten yeses to, but I find people are just myself included still, right? Because we still get scared because our asks just get bigger and bigger but they're afraid of the rejection. Like what do you say to yourself when the no happens? Like if he never called you or anything like that? What, what are you saying? To order to get back up faster because it's this time in between that, people just, they stay down and they stay in these thoughts and in the past.

That's a very good point. So I will tell you this. You know, even though I got the interview with Keanu, I didn't get the job. I didn't get the main job, right? It was just kind of like it. It kind of proved to me what the secret sauce is, right? And the truth of the matter is most of the things I go for, I actually don't end up getting and I fail at. And it's about getting comfortable and being desensitized to what failure is. And so that's a reframing your head. And how I've reframed failure is into an attempt. To me, when I look at failure, it's like it's my first attempt at something, it's my second attempt at something. And that gets me in a place where I don't give up just because I didn't make it. It just kind of gave me more ammunition to try again. And so I say all the time, it's like failing doesn't make you a failure, but quitting makes you a quitter. And I remind myself of stuff like that when it has to be. Because the truth is being bold, it's boldest for life. And I've had many times when I didn't put myself in a situation when I could have done it. Because even me now, of course, you know, like it's a. It's a work in progress. I still get self doubt, I still get those same feelings, but most of the time I won't let that stop me. But when it does, I feel even worse. Because to me, rejection is always better than regret. I don't want to look at something later on and be like, what if I did that? You know, like, what if I made that ask? What if I called that person? What if I sent that email? That to me hurts way more because it's a guttural feeling that lasts much longer than like some instant rejection that, yeah, it stings for a minute, maybe two, but you get over the rejection, but you don't get over the regret of what if? And so when you can think about things like that in your day to day normal life, it helps propel you to not get stuck in that self doubt and just go for it anyway. So even when you don't feel good enough, do it anyway. Even when you don't feel motivated to work out, do it anyway. Because when you don't do it anyway, you're letting yourself down and the what ifs stack. And that's what it's stacking accumulates to much more of a problem later on than in the beginning. So like that's how you lose self esteem and self worth, right? When you look back and you have all those stacks of what ifs that you never even tried to do.

Okay, I'm going to dig into this just a little bit more because this is still and always will be such a big part of my life. If I can give you a snippet of what I'm working on, it is these big bold asks frequently. And I find that some of the things that go on in my head that I'm working through, like getting over them quicker is the sending that big ask email that maybe you have to brag and you have to be really clear. Like you have to tell people why you're valuable to them and how you can add value. And you have a very short window in very small paragraph to be able to do a brag fest and do an ask and let them know how you're going to add value to them in some way. And when you guys, some of you listening are already doing this, like when you start to go really big, which I fully know all of you will who are listening, you will have a lot of these emails out at once or a lot of these asks out at once. Let's say you're raising money, or let's say you want support in a new business or you're asking for speakers at your very first event.

You.

And there can be a tendency to feel, you can feel really foolish after sending that if you don't get a response at all, right? And sometimes you get a bad response. What do we do to not spiral out and look like a freak show if you get either a bad response or no response? Cause I know some people are like.

I haven't got a response yet.

I should send something else. I should apologize. I should say like this whole world of a conversation on their end when the other person maybe hasn't even seen it yet.

Well, yeah, and I think that can happen all the time. Right? And it does happen all the time. Yes. You know, and what I like to also preface this with is when you make an ask, right? Like, I think a lot of people undervalue what they can bring to the table. They think that they don't have anything to offer. They're not at a place where that person ever needs something. Like how many times have I heard like, well, what do I have to offer? I have Nothing to offer. You'd be surprised, right? Like everybody is valuable and everyone has something about them that's unique and special, that can add value. It's really about like digging deep and figuring out what that thing is. And when I a big part of this, and a lot of people ask me this part, this question, like, well, how do you just ask, ask, ask. But if you're leading with how you can provide really valuable, whatever it is, valuable insight, information or how you can offer your help, it becomes like a symbiotic situation. It's not just a one sided relationship. So I want to kind of be clear on that part. The other part is what you're asking me is about when you get these no's, you get nobody even who responds. I mean, that's when you have to become desensitized to the failure or whatever. Sorry, the failure or whatever that is that happens. Because that's just one person, that's just one thing. And I have a master's in failing and rejection, but I have a PhD in kind of getting myself back up and trying again and again. It's about those attempts and how I put it out. There is, I say to people, figure out one goal, one goal, and then make 10 attempts at that one goal. And the reason why I do that is twofold. One is that you may not even get to that goal, but going down that path, another opportunity will present itself that you never even knew existed by just doing the actions. And the other part of it is that it's making you comfortable with the ask is making you comfortable with failing. It's getting you desensitized to that like, feeling of like not getting it, failing, reject rejection, where that's what it is about, becoming desensitized and immune to failure. So when you get that email or lack thereof of that email response, it doesn't burn as much. But the other thing is like, this is life, right? Like you're not gonna, not everything is gonna work out for you, not everyone's gonna respond to you and people have this misunderstanding that like, oh, once you hit a certain level, every, the world opens up to you and all these things happen to you and it's just not true, right? Like I constantly get nobody responding to me. No, you know what I mean? This still happens to me. I'm sure it happens to you too.

Totally.

And it doesn't ever get necessarily better. But what does get better is the way you can, how you deal with it and how you respond to it. Because at the end of the day, you can only control how your response is, right? And so that's. You got to take that onus into yourself and realize this is what happens and this is life. And figuring out coping mechanisms that make you not shut down and stop, but still invigorate you to continue and try.

I'm sure you can look back at so many things. Anyone that I've talked to who's successful can do the same thing where you look back and go, oh, my God, that thing I wanted. Thank God that didn't happen then, because I wouldn't have gotten this, which is so much better and bigger than what I was going for. And I just have all of these moments now, like how you gave the point of reference. Like, now when I'm not getting a yes, I also have the reference where I'm like, oh, well, this may be a good thing, because maybe the next big thing is not this for me at all. I'm going to keep trying, but I won't be devastated because I know how things turn out. Like, I know how things work.

So that's 100% true. Like, it's about. It's about connecting the dots. And the truth is, you don't know how those dots connect down the road. Right? Like, you don't know what your Chapter 10 looks like when you're on Chapter 1. And, like, even though in the moment, something feels like it's so daunting and terrible and that you'll never get over it, eventually, like, you know, a, you do, but B, usually for that. For that thing to have failed, it opened up your world for another opportunity to happen, you know, like when I. Right. So, like, this podcast that I do, it's called Habits and Hustle, I guess you can see from the back of my thing was actually sold as a TV show to NBC, and it was called Game Changers, not Habits and Hustle. And it was sold. And I thought it was, like, the big. I was so elated. I'm like, oh, my God, I sold this thing. Blah, blah, blah. And I was, like, so excited. And then, like, you know, one month turns into two, that turns into 10, and then nothing's happening with the stupid show. It just, like, sits in purgatory and, like, the one. Right. And the one thing that I thought was so, so amazing ends up, like, being, like, like, nothing. Where I eventually took the onus on me and put death. I kind of. I said to myself, I'm going to create my own destiny. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to turn this into a podcast, and I'll figure it, you know, and that will be what it will be. But, like, in the moment, I was like, God, I'm going to have to do a podcast. I wanted to do a network TV show, and blah, blah, blah. I mean, which ends up being like, it doesn't even happen. And then, like, I get this podcast and the amount of people control, like, when it's your own thing and you have destiny on that and you take agency of your life, like, it's been the best thing that's ever happened to me. The interesting people I've connected with, the opportunities that's come from in the world that it's kind of, you know, kind of just brought me into that I never even had any wherewithal to understand and know has been incredible. And, like, I would never have thought that, and I never would have even done it if it wasn't for that, like, extreme, like, loser failure that I had with the TV thing. You know what I mean? But, like, in the moment, I'm like, oh, God, like, this is such a. Such a disaster. But the truth is, like, and then because of this podcast, I can go through a litany of things that's opened up. But people have to recognize that in the moment when things don't go right, something's going to go right in a way that you never even expected. Because of that wrong.

Too many people finish their workday feeling frustrated, drained, and unfulfilled. I know that. I have experienced that myself. And the good news is, it doesn't have to be this way. And you don't need a new job to fix it. Patrick Lencioni, author of the Five Dysfunctions of a Team and more than a dozen other bestsellers, created the working genius assessment to help you pinpoint the kind of work that gives you energy, the kind that lights you up, and it also shares the kind that drains it. So over a million people, including me, have taken it and completely changed how I lead and show up every day. If you're a CEO, an entrepreneur, or someone who just wants to level up in business and in life, working genius is going to give you the clarity and confidence, confidence to operate in your strengths and find greater joy in what you do. Because confidence isn't pretending to be good at everything. It's knowing where you're truly gifted. Take the working genius assessment today and get 20 off with code. Earn atworkinggenius.com that's working genius dot com. You'll be glad you did it.

Okay. I love that we are talking about this and to the last point that you just said, oh, my goodness, I feel like we could probably just from our backgrounds go pretty hard on this right now. But the like, especially from the time that we were both in fitness, I feel like it was very much about potentially being anointed or needing someone to notice you, to get you on the show, get you on the COVID get you the deal, get you the thing. In a sea of women who all look the same, who are all fit, we all know how to turn on the fitness personality. How do you stand out? And so I had so many nos, and it sounds like you did, too, in so many different ways or things that fell through. And I got to a where exactly what you just said. I was like, screw it. I'm cutting out the middleman in my life. I'm so over waiting to be anointed by someone. What am I actually after and how do I create it? And for you, for the show, I'm sure it was like, I want to inspire. I want to feel connected to people. I want to still be able to talk and, you know, get these thoughts and ideas out. So have you ever had any other moments like that where you were like, oh, my God, this is not happening. I'm just going to go create it myself or go figure it out.

Everything in my life, basically. You know what I mean? You know, like, one thing I have to say that it's been, like a blessing for me is I've been always very, very curious, and I let the curiosity lead me into all these different areas of my life. Like, if you were to look at my career path, it would look like a Warshaw test. Like, it was so. It's so zigzag, and it makes no rhyme or reason or sense, but it's. It's okay. Because what I do is I just follow where my curiosity goes and I lead with that. And if I listen to all the people in my life who said, you can't do this because you're in this box, or you can't do that because you're like, what do you know? You're a fitness person. I would never be anywhere. Right? Because people are giving you their advice based on their experiences in life and their myopic view. So I think a big point here, I want people to understand and know, is be very, very careful of who you take advice from and who you surround yourself with, because those people can really keep you down, you know, even unintentionally, not even because they even mean to but it's because of their own point of view or the way that they, their perception of what they see the world to be and then you're paying the price for for it. So I'm extremely conscientious of those people. And actually in my book I talk about this thing called the bold of directors which is you've got to create a bold of directors around you. People who are like minded, who want to see you succeed, who are of a think of in abundance, not in, you know, scarcity and who you are very like minded with and who help each other. Because in the end of the day I don't think any of us necessarily are self made. I think we all need other people to help elevate us and bring us up and help us. No one just does it on their own in a vacuum. So it's because of that also you got to be careful who you surround yourself with and who are those people because that can either elevate you or de escalate you very, very quickly. And the other thing I wanted to bring up about that is that I always kind of stress very certain things because I think they're so important. Is this idea of self efficacy, like feeling that you could do it and then doing it is so important. And you get that by building these little wins for yourself. I feel like to me anyway that to me is how we actually like move through it, right? Like we get the self confidence to feel we can by doing these little wins and to bring it back to the fitness stuff because I know you'll understand this. Fitness has taught me such amazing life skills, the foundation of success like discipline, patience, goal setting. All of these things that have worked in every aspect of my life to win like you.

I totally agree you guys. We were talking offline before this about how fitness has been such a foundation and it has taught everything that you just said. And I think the biggest one for me is the patience. Like oh, consistency is a really interesting thing because of how, how results appear is also like so messed up because you, you can be consistent for a year in the gym and for six months of that year you can actually see nothing.

Like nine months.

Nine months. It can be.

Yeah.

Even a year, even the year depending on you know what, what you're focusing on first or you're not focus nutrition or whatever. And that was the part for me that just now with even in business I'm like, okay, I get it. Like I'm gonna have to do this one to three to sometimes five years before Anyone else is going to notice the work that I'm putting in when no one is watching. So that has just been one of the biggest things for me, is learning patience in business, in life, and anything that I want to see a result in. Okay, so you talk about something called the bold types, which I'm so curious about, I want to hear about.

Yes. Well, okay, first I want to talk about that, because first of all, I believe that you can be super bold in certain areas of your life and then more timid and meek in other areas, right? And so, like, a lot of times you could be super bold in your professional world, but then acquiesce in your relationships and just end up going on dates or marrying the person that just asked you out. So I think the first piece of this, right, is to figure out from you, because you're the only person who you might have to come to Jesus with yourself. And I feel like being like, okay, well, where am I showing up really for myself and living authentically? And then where am I kind of like having some issues where I maybe need some more, you know, I should put some more work into it, like, what is it? What are the buckets? And then with that, you then move forward. Because I think what happens a lot of times, this overarching idea of being bold, everybody's different. Everyone has a different situation. And you can have areas where you are in areas where you're not, and then start building from those areas that are maybe a little bit more concerning or weak, where you want to feel like you got to, like, improve upon. And so that's the first part, because I believe in this idea, in this book wasn't about just how to live. You know, it's not about. To me, a rich life is not just having money or that's not what it's about. Having a rich life to me is about meaningful relationships and experiences and fulfillment in all areas of your life, not just one. And the idea of being bold to me is about building a life that's rich in all of the areas that make us feel satisfied and fulfilled. And the only way you get there is to design and curate a life from authenticity to what you see how when you were a kid, how you envisioned you wanted your life to be versus the path of least resistance, which is, I'll just take what's kind of available. I'll just work for that job because that job opening was there. Or I'll just go out with X, Y, and Z because they're the ones who asked me out or swiped left on me versus that taking agency and having much more say in what happens to you.

Oh, my gosh. So good. Let's talk about practicing being bold. I know you talked a little bit about it, but once we kind of pick, what does that look like? How frequent do you feel like we need to practice being bold? What are some of these things that maybe you would give us as an exercise if we're like, okay, I'm ready. I want to work up the nerve. Where should I start?

Well, I say that. Well, first of all, you can't ask for the big. If you can't ask for the little things in life, there's no way you're going to be able to ask for the big things in life. Right? So you start with these little bold moves. And like, this whole idea is that I give people this a. A workbook so they can, like, build their bold and build up to being bold by doing these little bold moves. And this can be so simple, Lori, that it may seem like common sense to some, but to others, it would be like. It would be so, like, scary and uncomfortable. But even going to a restaurant and asking for salad dressing on the side. Yes. You know, where a lot of people are like, how do you do that? So embarrassing. Or, I don't want to put somebody out. I don't want to make waves. But that's little. Like a little thing like that. You can't ask the server to have, you know, sauce on the side. How are you going to ask for this big abundance, you know, this big other thing that you want in your life? So you work up slowly, like something like that. Or, you know, you can call the, you know, whoever at&t Verizon, who your cell service provider is and ask for what are the different packages that are available versus just like paying for the same package that you've been paying for eight years and paying all this money when you could save a hundred bucks a month by all these new plans and promotions, stuff like that, where you're like, never ever someone who feels comfortable putting yourself in a situation and asking for anything beyond what's in front of you. Things like that are just little bold steps that get you more comfortable in just putting your. Just about asking in general. And then you can kind of like build from there, like small little things that people, like I said, wouldn't even think about, make a big difference and getting more courage and more brave to go for the bigger asks.

I couldn't agree more with this. I actually did this practice for myself. Because I'm from a really small town. I was homeschooled through high school. I was raised in a more restrictive religion. We were not bold in my family. I was very far from it. And I remember the first experience of, oh, shit, I gotta get bold or I'm never gonna do anything that I want. I was probably 26, just getting into fitness. Like, I had worked out and all that stuff, but I want to do a fitness show. So me from the Midwest goes, takes a flight to Boston to a fitness camp. So it's all Boston girls. Like born and raised Boston girls. I did not get a word in edgewise. I was not noticed. I was like a little fly on the wall. And I was like, oh my God, these women are so bold. And I had to start practicing what that looked like. But before I could even practice with what you're saying, I literally started at restaurants asking for what I wanted, all the things. I had a story in my head that in order to be loved, I needed to be easy. Like, I'm laid back. I'm easy. This is why people like me. And I actually had to switch it to, I have preferences. And those preferences are great. Like, they're a good thing. And it's like, oh, I'm so easy. I'm so laid back. I was like, no, I am easy and laid back. But I also have preferences. And that is so good. And it's safe to have preferences. Like, this is shit. I still have to say to myself, like, because it's so ingrained that it's actually a negative thing to like speak up or put people out. And I've had to work on that story so much.

Isn't that so interesting? That's such an interesting thing. I totally agree with you. But what's so interesting is that we have these stories that we think how we think of ourselves at play and ruminate and marinate in our head over and over again. And then we act accordingly. So the idea, right? And like, and so, and the only way we can change that is if we actually change that. And we have to be conscious of it and then create our new story. Because we always tend to, like, we all have a, I find that we all have a baseline that we, we, we see ourselves as and comfortable in. And when we kind of get out of that comfort level, it's like, it's very hard to make like stay there. So you got to rejig yourself. And like, the only way to do that are like these mental check ins, right? Where you know that you do it. That's why self awareness is so key and important here is because of this exact thing, right? Because if we don't check that at the door, we will continue to do the same patterns and expect the same thing we always expected, because that's all we know. You know, and so. And by the way, I do the same thing. And that's why to me, and a lot of people who come, you know, who reach out to me, do. And that's why we can kind of figure out a way to tell a different, different story and start to act differently. The neuroplasticity in our brains eventually change because we're doing. We're setting a different pattern for ourselves.

Oh, yes. And you know, to your point before, like, the people that you're around and the people you listen to, like, I'll tell you, the more I was around those girls in Boston, the more I was like, oh, there is a different way of being. And these girls are moving in the world. They're getting what they want. And I wasn't able to do that overnight. But to your point, you will, by osmosis, start absorbing that if you're around bold people and getting around seeing this different way. So I love a couple things that you mention in your book. I would love to know about the bold standard and then be bold, not smart. So tell me about those things.

Totally. So, like, being bold, not smart. So this is. I feel like a lot of times when you're too smart, you tend to overthink everything and you think of all the reasons why something cannot happen, why it won't happen. Right? And then you don't do it. You don't act because you've talked yourself out of it already. And you become like, you have this whole, like, analysis paralysis thing happening where they. It's like too many thoughts, too many things, so overwhelming. And then everything just nothing happens versus when you're bold. There's much more of an impulsivity to that where you just act and think of all the possible things that could go right versus the things that can go wrong. Now, I'm not saying that bold people can't be smart and smart people can't be bold. But the point is that it's boldness that is the secret sauce. It's not being smart. I did this thing maybe a year ago, not even. Maybe 10 months ago, where I spoke at MIT on this program that they have, it's called Fail. And it was because at mit, which is, you know, the amazing.

Yeah, I would be like, freaking out, man.

Right. Like. Well, like the funny thing is like, MIT literally is the smartest. People in the. On the planet are basically congregated at this school, right? But yet they have a program called Fail because they need to practice resilience, because they're not used to failing. And because they're not used to failing, what happens is when they do fail, the suicide rate at MIT is very high, higher than any school, by exponentially. And they're not comfortable with it. So they need to have people come in and talk to them about resilience and failure. So why I'm even bringing this up is that a lot of times when you're mediocre or average, the fall is not that far off. So you can fail, you get right back up again, you try again, you fail, whatever, you're used to it more. And when you have too much pressure on the other side, you don't know how to handle life. You don't know how to handle failure, and it paralyzes you. So why I'm bringing this up, really, for people who are listening and think that they're just mediocre or average, to me that's a strength. You should lean into that because that's when you shine and that's when things become easier for you because it teaches you how to be. You need to learn how to be more resourceful, how to, how to rely on other things and how like, you know, it becomes easier, more comfortable when the pressure isn't so hard on you. So, like, I think that to me, that was one of my. One of the reasons why I maybe succeeded was because I was mediocre in a lot of ways. So I had to learn all these other things and I failed a lot more.

Let's talk about Bold as a habit. Like, you're. I know you're also really into just creating habits and little habits and, you know, these habit stacking and all of these things that make us, eventually make us who we are and change who we believe that we are. But bold as a habit, do you feel like now bold is just who you are? And is that something that. How many years do you actually think that takes? If someone's like, oh my God, I want to be bold tomorrow? Like, what do you think if we wanted to get really bold? Like, what does that look like?

Well, I do think I am a big habit hacker stacker or whatever you want to call it, because I do believe having certain habits help you be the most productive self and it keeps you on point to go after things And I'm sure you and I probably have a lot in common, I would imagine, because of this. And I do think that I've been doing it for. So I've been bold, and I practiced so much that my bold muscle is pretty strong. But like anybody, if you stop doing it over time, if you're not consistent with it, it atrophies like any other muscle in your body, right? Yep. You have to be consistent and you have to be doing things over and over and over again or else you lose it, you lose the muscle of it, you lose that, you lose the ability to do it. And so would I say that I've harnessed it maybe better than some. Yeah. But there's been times in my life where I haven't been working it that much and it gets weak, so I have to kind of start up again. And to me, I do believe when, because I've done it for so long. There is muscle memory where my neuroplasticity has actually created this new path and pattern where it is more my go to than not, and which happens with anything and everybody. If you take Spanish over and over again, if you work out all the time, you build up that same muscle memory, which is why I think it's really important to consistently do these bold habits, these bold moves to build up the habit of being bold. And like, what you said is very, very on point and very true that when you were hanging out with those Boston girls, right through osmosis, you became a little bit bolder because that's what you saw around you.

Right.

That was much more familiar to you, which is why having a bold of directors around you, surrounding yourself with people that make you feel okay and comfortable with these big assets is so, so important. Right. Because if you're around people all the time who tell you, oh, no, you shouldn't ask for that, oh, no, you shouldn't do this, or that's like you're being pushy or being too demanding, which are all these negative connotations when really all you're doing is being much more authentic to what, how you really want to live your life. Like, why is that a bad thing? Like, why is it a bad thing to ask for what actually it is you want or to go after or date the guy or the girl that you actually are interested in dating or work for the company that you actually love? Like, if you want to work, if you love Nike and you approach Nike, what's wrong with that? Like, why should you work for, you know, some software company that you could care less about, like, my whole thing is, like, why not you? Why, why, why count yourself out in all these things and live vicariously through all these other people who are doing what they want to be doing? Because you don't have the confidence yet or the courage yet to do it. Like, work up to that so you can live that way.

Oh, my God, you're making me think so much. Because I was going to ask you just about, like, okay, so this boldness can obviously translate into our. Our health, our ideas around money, our career, our relationships. And I was just thinking.

I was.

I was recently at a dinner with, like, crazy successful people, and we were talking about, like, how they met their partners. Like, we were all talking about how we met our partners and the stories of how they met. It was like, oh, he told me, no, literally, like 20 times. But I knew that this person was for me. So I was doing these big, bold things and then vice versa. Oh, she was so not interested for an entire year. But I just kept making these big, bold moves. And I'm thinking, how many times or how many people also on the other hand do I know who are kind of in mediocre relationships? Because we take just, like, what your book says. Like, we're taking what life kind of gives us instead of being bold, creative for a long amount of time, which, by the way, these people are in extremely long, healthy, happy relationships, which. That is so interesting that the more bold we are for getting what we want, the more obviously it can enrich our lives. We can be in the thing that we want. We can be in the careers, in the relationships, instead of taking these things that life is going to just hand to us, and we're going to be worn down if we don't keep on taking massive, bold action.

Well, it's true. And I want to talk about relationships because a lot of times people don't think about boldness in that way, right? They think about it, like, in the career or the job or this. And to me, it's like, if you work your bold muscle in these other areas, it bleeds into other areas of your life. And like, how many times have you asked a friend of someone, you know, like, oh, how you do it? How's your relationship? Or, how's this? And they're like, that's okay. Like, most people live in this. It's okay world. Like, that's fine in everything, including relationships, right? And I feel like we just got super okay and comfortable with this idea that most people are kind of, like, in this. Like, Disinterested this place of like less than mediocre place in their relationships where like they expect it to be less than average because it's what everyone says it is. But if you can actually work that bold muscle that will eventually not be okay with you anymore, that will not be good enough for you because you're going to want to have a life that's much more fulfilling. And that to me is why this is so important. I think if you're going to be in this space of personal development and self help and all these other things and motivation and inspiration, all the other euphemisms you want to using this use the idea of taking being bold in your life by just doing these simple little things that will create a much more fulfilling, satiating life for you in every aspect. These are not, these are not overarching big things that you need to be doing. There's no, you don't need to be spending a ton of money on any of this stuff. It's literally just like doing these little, little things daily that are in front of you to change and tweak the way you see things and reframe it. So you live a life that's way more to what you want. And that's why I say like, you chase the life you want, don't just take the life you get.

Oh my God, this is so good. So everybody needs to go and get this book because I can promise you, everybody listening needs to get more bold because if you were, you'd have more.

Of what you want.

That's what I'll tell you right now. The more bold that you get, the more you look at your life and it's, it starts lining up to exactly what you want. And it's so exciting. And I love that you wrote a book where we can actually step by step help ourselves identify where we need help and what direction we should go to next. So where can we get your book?

Oh, you can get my anywhere. Like you can go to Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, wherever fine books are sold.

Amazon's typically always easiest, but we'll throw that link into the show. Notes, you guys. And one of our biggest things we can do for our guests, everybody listening, is you can go follow Jennifer or grab her book because we all know I talk about so much, how challenging books are and what a just a labor of love it is to put all of your wisdom into one spot for people to get the Cliff notes of the last 20 plus years of your life. So you guys go and check her book out. Jennifer, any last thing that you want to share with us?

I want people to live bolder. I want everyone who listens to this do one bold thing that this today, whenever this is being aired, even if it's a small thing, to kind of to become more bold and to build up that bold muscle. Remember, chase what you want, don't just take what you get.

Oh, so good. You guys go give her a follow. Let her know what your biggest takeaway was. You know I always love to share your stories on Instagram and see who is listening and I know that she'll love to see the same. So until next time, earn your happy.

Bye everyone.

Sam.