Determining Which Relationships In Your Life Are Worth The Hard Work With Lisa Bilyeu, Co-Founder of Impact Theory

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Don't point the finger. Like, if this is something where you've collectively agreed that your business is like, you know, the priority and you see that their behavior is getting in the way of, of your goal, sit them down and reiterate the goal.

Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the show. Today on the show, I have one of my favorite humans, Lisa Bilyeu. She co founded Quest Nutrition, which grew 57,000% in its first three years. You guys, that's insane. She's also the co founder and president of Impact Theory Studios. And I can tell you, you can learn a thing or 10,000 from this woman. She truly is one of those people who, when you see her online, she is more generous and more incredible in person. And I just love having conversations with her. If you don't follow her on Instagram yet, I mean, what are we even waiting for? Because it is so much fun because she shares so much incredible advice on boundaries. Relationships work, but it is like real. It like hits you between the eyes.

And today is no different because. Because her and I really, really open.

Up about our relationships with our significant others and how we've had to learn how to communicate through the years and.

The truth about where we were at.

The beginning of our relationships and what that actually looked like, working through all of the challenges. You guys, I think you're gonna have a blast listening to just all of the things that used to go down that weren't awesome in our relationships and communication. And I know you're gonna love it.

So.

So let's get into the show. And did I mention that she is also on the Growth Day podcast network with me? So hopefully we'll be collaborating a lot in the future and I know you're going to love her as much as I do. Let's get started. Lisa, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast.

Oh, my God, Laurie, thanks for having me, homie.

I think some of my favorite parts are like our pre conversation of catching up in all of life and trying to plan when we can get together.

Yeah, exactly. That's our preamble before we start recording. Like, when are we going to hang out? When we gonna have dinner? Let's have a Double date, you guys.

If you don't know Lisa and Tom, first of all, you literally have to go follow both of them. Your posts are so much fun, especially when you're posting about working with each other and partnership and love and dating, all of the things just around being partners. And this is going to be such a fun conversation today, not only for you guys listening, but for me, because it's one of my favorite things to talk about. Because whether you are in a partnership or not, this truly, I believe, can really cross over into just relationships in general with people. I find that even if you're like, well, I don't have a partner, I'm not dating someone, or I don't work with my partner. Okay. This is like, you do actually work with your partner if you have one, because you're working through life together like it is a life partnership. But specifically today, we are going to talk a bit about working together. So, Lisa, I want to know, when did you and Tom even start working together? What did that look like? What were you doing? What was he doing? And how did that come together?

Yeah, I'm so glad we're diving deep because like you said, I think relationships is a massive key for everybody. And then more and more people are working together and if you're unable to navigate it, it can actually end in divorce. And so Tom and I, going into it, were very aware that we had to be on top of it and address as they came. But we were kind of thrown into the situation, I would say, as I was a stay at home wife eight years, I was supporting Tom from a home perspective. I was putting clothes out for him, I was cooking for him every day. And then he came home one day, wanted to start a new company with his business partners. It was a little protein bar company called Quest Nutrition. And so me as the supportive wife, just to give some background, is I jumped in and I was like, oh, babe, how can I help? Like, oh, you need me to ship some bars? I can do that. And because him and his business partners were so focused on trying to get out of their current tech company and then transitioned full time into Quest, Quest was just the side hustle, and I was the one that was available to do anything and everything. And because our house was on the line, anytime I faced something that I didn't know how to do, I had a choice. I had to choose between do you want to lose the house or do you actually want to figure it out? So in my evolution of figuring it out, I went from helping the husband we grew at 57,000%. We were the second fastest growing company in North America within three years. And we went from zero to a billion dollars in five years. So just give people a glimpse of the trajectory of how quickly we grew. So in that growth, I went from just helping the husband to, oh, this is actually developing this part of the business. I started to really grow our shipping department. And as I was growing our shipping department, I realized, oh, Tom's officially my boss. Like, I wasn't even, like, on paper, sure, we were business partners and his business partners, like, we all had equity, but from a hierarchy in the department. Tom was the president of the company and I was head of our shipping department. So that was the very first thing of having to assess, oh, I actually do, officially, my title. And your title dictates that you are my boss, and we have to address that. Because if I went in going, you're not my boss. I'm an equal. But I run the shipping department. But you also have to answer to me. It would have worked. So we had to, from the very, very first get go, is agree the goal is for the business to succeed. This isn't ego. So if we agree that the business succeed is our North Star, if that means that my role is by working underneath him, then that's what I need to do. And so that was the very first I have to put my ego aside. This isn't about me feeling good about myself. This is about growing the company. And you have to have that discussion ahead of time. Now, what does that actually look like? You have to define roles. You have to actually say, I'm responsible for X, Y and Z. You are responsible for X, Y and Z. Now, because Tom was officially my boss at the time, as I was growing into the department, I didn't really know what I was doing. And so as I was starting to learn and we were growing so quickly, you can understand, the company got ahead of me before my skill sets were refined enough for me to be able to adequately run a department. So in those moments where I didn't feel equipped and the department was growing too quickly, I turned to Tom and I was very honest and I said, because our goal is to succeed, you have my permission to be honest with me. If I'm not fulfilling my role, you have my permission to either fire me higher, above me, or demote me. And I actually said those words to him because I needed him to know that no way in any shape or form that my ego was going to come before the company's success. Now, his response was, thank you for that. He goes, but the great news is, babe, I've promised my wife I will always provide for her. And so if you're getting in the way of my promise to my wife because you're not good at your job, I absolutely will be honest with you. So that was the first key of just being open about how transparent you can be. So that when imagine he came to me, Lori, and was like, hey, you're doing a really bad job. And all I cared about was my ego. You can imagine now I'm a bad business partner. Now I actually don't adapt. I don't grow, I don't improve. I'm just protecting my ego. And what happens is that has a knock on effect and your company doesn't succeed.

Oh, this is such a good conversation. Lisa. I'm literally. You're making me think of all the points that we had to get to. Like, that we went through. And we did the exact same thing. Like, we struggled in the beginning. Trust me, you guys figured it out faster than we did. But the defining roles thing is so important. And what are you good at? Right? Like, sometimes we try. Chris and I, literally, my ego initially took over, and I didn't even realize it was ego. It's like I needed validation so bad that when he came into my business, he was so good with, you know, certain roles in the business. He was so good with coaching, and I was better with recruiting. Like, I was so much better with getting attention on the business and recruiting. And I felt like I needed to be the coach, too, though. I wanted credit for being the coach, the recruiter, all of the things. And that was one of the hardest realizations for me is, oh, my God, I'm the bottleneck of this company because I'm trying to do something I'm not good at just so people can tell me I'm good at it. And I'm also this and that, and I'm doing it all because in the beginning, I thought that women had to do it all. Remember that story?

Yeah. Remember that story we were told time and time again? That is so powerful. And that's like, it's. You're protecting your ego, right? Finding the validation. So I think there's multiple things here. It's. Where else can you find your validation? It's like acknowledging it is super freaking powerful. Saying, oh, I'm trapped here because I'm getting. Oh, I want to do this because I think I'm going to get the validation from it. Cool. Just admit it. And go, that's just part of my personality. Now how can I actually pivot that validation and be proud of myself in a different way? So maybe your validation comes from being able to recognize what you're bad at.

Yeah, you know, you know what's interesting is it did kind of pivot into that. It evolved into that. And now I actually, I take so much pride in sharing what I'm not good at right away because that allows me to find the people who are good at it. So it really has become very interesting.

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Okay, so. So Tom is at the place where he's like, I promise I'll tell you, you were very open to it. So what you were explaining made me realize you also immediately you detached your identity from the business. You were kind of like, okay, I will show up like this. I just want to be the best over here. But our marriage, you had a separate conversation about your marriage and who you were as people existing outside of the business. How did you guys, not especially him, actually, sorry, I have a million questions right now. How did both of you not take on those like identity roles right away within the business and allow them to come into your marriage at that point?

Oh, we did. We did. Yeah. So well, more me if I'm going to be honest. So because I was the stay at home wife for eight years, I going back to validation, even though I hated it, I was getting validation for being an amazing Greek wife. So when I look back of why the hell didn't I speak up for eight years that I was miserable, I didn't tell my husband. It was because I think subconsciously part of me was getting a lot of validation and that made me feel good about myself. So even though the day to day activities were like literally a slow death, I call it, it's still I got enough validation from it that it kept me there.

Yes.

So as I started to pivot into becoming an entrepreneur running the shipping department, I was worried actually about where I'd get my validation from if I failed at running the shipping department. So that's why going back to Your point of we tried to do everything. Why do we try and do everything? Because I would, at least for me, I was scared to let go of the thing that I knew made me feel good about myself in case the thing that I was moving towards would fail. And so, so when I started to pivot and started to build out our shipping department, I was so gung ho to succeed, I was willing to do what it took. Now in that because we were growing so quickly, we ended up having our very first facility was on the outskirts of Compton. And my husband grew up where he big brothered for an inner city kid. And so it was very important to him to help people in the inner cities. And so for us, when we started Quest and we had our first facility, we put out basically the call on the streets, if you will, and said, we don't care if you've got a criminal background, we literally don't care where you came from, we don't care your past. If you come into the business and you're willing to work hard, like who you were doesn't dictate who you are today and what you can do. So we don't care if you've got a criminal record, come and apply for the job. If you're willing to work hard, we'll hire you. And so now we're hiring a lot of ex convicts that are like six foot massive dudes that now come and work in my department. Now I'm five foot one and I have a British accent, so sometimes it's kind of hard for people to take you seriously as. And I'm female, so let's just be honest, right? The juxtaposition, whether I liked it or not, I gave every signal that I could be pushed around. And because it was our company, because our house was on the line, I knew I had to adopt a harder mindset, a harder back backbone in order to show up and not get pushed around. Now as I started to do that, as I started to get harder and stand my ground and really develop strength and resilience, I was bringing that home. And now over time, the soft, squishy wife that I actually love to be, I started getting harder. And I didn't realize it. And it got to the point where I came home one day and Tom and I had this discussion and I completely dismissed him. And he said, babe, I need to be honest with you. I understand why you've developed resiliency, I understand why you've. He didn't use these words, but these are the words we're using in today's society, stepping into your masculine. He said, I get it, and I support you. You're developing who you are, but at the same time, you're no longer being a feminine wife. You're no longer bringing that softness to the relationship. And this is something that I loved about you. And so instead of dismissing him, instead of saying, well, this is who I am and like it and lump it, I actually heard him out, because I think you need to do that in a relationship. And I said, okay, what is he seeing? I was like, it's because I'm being dismissive. I'm no longer becoming empathetic towards him. Like, all these traits that I actually loved about myself, I was losing because I was so focused on being a strong badass at work. And so giving each other this space to be honest with each other about what we're not liking through this evolution was absolutely imperative. It was something that we spoke about from the get go, because you need to give yourself, give your partner permission to be bringing these things to the table for the greater good of your relationship. And so that was then where we had to navigate, where I said, okay, I totally hear you. Give me space to figure out how I can navigate both. And I came up with tactics and ways that I could be a badass at work. So one of the things is my hair. I listen to hardcore rap music as I was going into work, right? Like, building up my strength and my badassery. And then on the other side of it, as I was coming home before, I would get all cuddly. I feel like I'm all knotted up. I feel like I'm right. When you're hitting a brick wall and people are coming to you time and time again, like, you do build this resilience. So I said, just like, I suit up for the day to be a badass with my jewelry, my hair, and my music. What if I did the opposite? And so I created this ritual, if you will, where I would come home before I would even say hi to him or kiss him or anything. I would unravel, unravel. That sounds like I was, like, falling apart. I would unwrap myself, and that meant I would tie my hair up, I would take my jewelry off. I would put. And you know me, Laurie, so you know I'm actually telling the truth. I would put on fluffy Wonder Woman pajama bottoms, and I really lean into my softness, give myself that time so that I can transition. And then I would go up to him and I'd be Like, baby. And I would jump in his arms, sit on his lap and love that type of side of me. But that was a long way of saying it wasn't easy. We had to be honest with each other, we had to navigate it, we had to talk about it, we had to be transparent. And the other thing that I was transparent of is, babe, I'm never going to go back to being that full time, soft, squishy wife that actually isn't building her self esteem, that isn't building her worth. Like, I found myself and I'm going to stay on this path. And he was totally supportive over that. So navigating the two and, and not just saying, well, I'm going to give this up, it's super important. And then coming up with tactics. So it's not just I want to, it's I have a way to.

Yes. Oh my gosh. Million percent had to do the same exact type of shift. Had to take the time once I get home to be like, okay, you're dropping in to somebody else. And actually it was really interesting because working from home was like, how do we separate the day? So for us, our walk is the turnoff time of we're leaving our business people behind. And now we're not that you can't talk about business after that because sometimes it creeps in, right? But I'm letting go of that, like, hard driver. And now I'm like softening through this walk. And then when we get home, it's like, I'm a different person if I don't have a separator. It is very hard for me to transition. And like, oh my God. He would come up to me in the middle of working and like rub my shoulders or kiss me on the cheek. And I was like, like, it felt so wrong because I am in a different mode. I'm like, it was almost. This is. I'm sure you can understand this. It'd be like if he came up to you in the shipping department and kissed you in front of everyone, you'd.

Be like, what are you doing?

Like, I am in business mode right now. And so we had to like learn and that number one, I'm like, I'm not trying to offend you. I absolutely love you. I'm just an, I'm a different person person right now. In order for me to do what needs to get done, they had to have that physical separator. So I love that you created a ritual and are sharing that with people because I do think it has to be something physical. Actually physical separator in order to do that. Oh, my God. Okay, so my question for you guys, as if he's here right now. You can answer.

I can answer for him.

Yeah. I was gonna say whatever you say is right. He's not here, so. Exactly.

There you go.

So for the two of you, how do you approach conversations without someone's defenses being up? Because I think there's going to be people listening who are like, yeah, I'd love to have this conversation with my husband, or I'd love to have this conversation with my wife, but I'm just not sure it's going to be received well.

Okay. It's definitely nuanced. So there's things like, when are you catching them? Right. We all know that the time of day, it makes a difference. And even just understanding you as a female. So any females listening? Right. You have a cycle. In that cycle, there were moments that it's actually great for you to be confident. Like, you have it. I actually can't remember what part of your cycle. I think it's like, right after your cycle. Like the beginning, I think. Anyway, the point being is that there were moments where, in fact, just before you ovulate, that's actually when you shouldn't be doing anything that requires a lot of confidence, that needs a lot of strength, that needs a lot of energy. But there are moments that after that, you actually are heightened. You have more strength, you have more energy, you have more resilience. So knowing that for yourself, yourself is going to be absolutely key. Like, don't have the conversation when you know you're going to be emotional. That's the truth. Like, if you know, guys, that you're coming on your period and you know that you get emotionally. Do not have this. Just know thyself. Like, don't judge yourself. Just know thyself. Because if you go into that conversation knowing that you may get emotional, set yourself up for success and do it at time where you can at least predict you may be able to be more emotionally sober is like, how I like to call it. So that's just. Just as a female know it. And if a guy is listening, make sure that you do it. Like, have that discussion with your wife when she's not getting in that emotional state. And then doing it when you're having, actually, to be honest, good moments. Like, really having a healthy moment between you is the time to bring it up because the defenses are going to be the lowest. Then also, don't point the finger. Like, if this is something where you've collectively agreed that your business is like, you know, the priority, and you see that their behavior is getting in the way of your goal. Sit them down and reiterate the goal. So start there and go, oh, okay. You know, hey, babe, we'd love to chat to you. You know, I know that we've said that this is the goal. I'd actually love to bring something up you're so amazing at, right? And, like, people joke about the shit sandwich, but it works. And the reason being is you need people to not hear the negative because as humans, we're naturally inclined to focus on the freaking negative. And so it makes a difference if you start with what you're proud of, what you're excited about, the great things, and then saying this one little thing that I would really love to address. And I also want to hear from you because let me tell you, you're not perfect either. And the chances are they probably are holding on to something that they want to tell you. So, in fact, that's actually probably the best way to start. It's like, babe, we've assessed this goal. It's been a while since we've actually sat down. I really want to hear what are the things that you feel I need to improve on? And you actually have to be willing to hear the answer. Now, when you set yourself up like that and you respond, oh, my God, thank you so much, I'm really going to work on this now, then you can then reciprocate and hope that that person also is aligned and wants to hear the truth. This isn't a point in the finger. This isn't a, hey, you're screwing up. It's a, this is an issue. Is this something I can help you with, or is this something you need to do on your own? So giving them the grace to give them space to voice that maybe they're struggling is also another thing.

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Okay, so I love this because there's so many nuances to even the defining roles. And this means having that conversation means who has the credibility? And we even use that word. We sit down, we say, who has the credibility in this area? So let's just take impact theory as an idea. So we have multiple avenues in our company. We've got YouTube podcast, our impact theory university, and our web three are pretty much our main buckets in our company. So we say, who has the credibility in these areas? For me, because my background and I've been behind the scenes a lot more, I have the credibility on the content creation side on the YouTube, on the podcast that has. I've been studying it way longer than Tom has because he's been in front of the camera for a lot of the time. So we sat down and we said, I have credibility in YouTube and podcasts. Do we agree? And if the answer is yes, great, then you write that down. So now what does that actually mean? This means that in any scenario, if an issue comes up in the company and I make a decision and he disagrees with me, we've already agreed that I will hear him out. So he has every right to tell me he disagrees. He has every right to try and persuade me. But if at the end I still disagree with him, I have the credibility to make the decision. And we use the words, even the language, we Use I even say, say, I've heard you, but I still think my way is the right way. So we are going to proceed now as a pink pinky sword that we've done is if that happens, the other person must reciprocate with these words, Okay, I disagree, but I commit. Now, what that commit does is, you know, Lori, how many people will be like, all right, fine. And then they sit in the corner and they're just waiting for you to fail. And they can't wait for you to fail because they can't wait to say, I told you so. Now, let's be honest. Does that help your company to succeed or not? If your partner is sitting in the corner waiting for you not to succeed? No, it doesn't. Right.

It'll get in your head, too. It just will.

Exactly. So what you need in a partner is support. Even if they think the decision you're making isn't going to be the right one, you need support. And so we just agreed. Do we support each other in service of our bigger goal? Yes or no? Great. Do we agree? You're the expert at this. Yes or no? Amazing. Now, every time. And this actually happened, Lori. So it was right before COVID we had this big meeting. There's like 25 of us at the time, all sitting around. Tom makes this decision, and I speak up and I say, I disagree. Now, this is in front of our team. And I said, actually, I disagree, and here's why. And he was like, no, I still don't agree with you. I was like, yeah, but you're not listening. Right. And so it starts to get a little heated because I'm like, he's not hearing my message, so I'm now being forceful. And eventually he said the words that we agreed on. I've heard you, but I disagree. We're moving forward with my idea now. In that moment, you can imagine I feel embarrassed. It stings. I think he's making a stupid mistake, if I'm going to be honest. But we'd already previously agreed of how we were going to handle it. In that moment of feelings, the sting, getting my emotions all rattled up. You know when you can feel that boiling like that, Your face is going red. You're feeling that boiling. I was feeling all feels. But in that moment where once upon a time, I think we probably would have butted head and that argument would have gone on for hours and hours and hours, and I would have went, fine, do it your way then. Because we had agreed in that moment, I reminded myself of the Agreement. And I turned around and I said, okay, I disagree, but I commit. And even in saying those words made me actually commit. And I said, all right, what is it going to take to succeed now? And now I've shifted my mind from not sitting in the corner waiting for you to fail, but I'm like, all right, I've committed, so this better blood work. What can I do to show up to help this work?

Mm. Oh, God, this is so good. So anybody listening? With a partner, Without a partner, you guys, we just actually. Lisa, I love this. We did this in a. In a recent team meeting of talking about, okay, well, having a CEO means that is the final choice, and it means to have a cohesive team. Like, you have to agree that someone's going to have the final say in this arena. So in each of the. That even if you don't agree with what's being said after throwing out a bunch of ideas, it's kind of like, well, that's the final decision. And even if you don't like it, we're all going to get on board, and we're going to be behind it. We're going to push it forward, because this is going to happen over and over. And this is what could really stall a team. And ultimately, it's the most important team of your or your lifetime is your partner. And deciding. Essentially, all you did was decide in what arenas who gets to be the CEO.

Thank you so much.

And you know what else I heard that I loved is Chris. And I have used. I don't remember who told me about it. Maybe it was even you guys, but it's like, if there's a topic that is really important to someone, and it's like, somebody needs to win this battle, whatever it is. Like, maybe it's just even talking about going home for the holidays or not wanting to go to a certain parent's house for the holidays because of how it makes them feel or whatever it is. It's kind of like, on a scale of 1 to 10, how important is. Is this fight to you that you win it? Essentially, how important is it that you win? And, you know, someone might be like, well, this is like an eight for me. And the person's like, this is a ten for me. Like, I'm not going to be able to get over this. So you kind of let these moments like that when, like, deciding who does this really mean more to? Like, who needs it more? And can you support that person who needs it more?

Yeah, it's. So Tom and I use the Word important. And that is something we probably say maybe three times a year, maybe four. And so it basically we've defined what that means. So that's also another thing, is don't expect somebody else to be in your head. So you have to define terms like literally. Tom and I have like this mini little dictionary that really does define our terms, that when you say this, it means this because right. If you say to someone, you know, this is important to me, to you, Lori, it may be like, oh, okay, a thousand things are important, so whatever. But if, you know, Lisa Bilyeu only says the word important three times in a year, and I've said it to you, Lori, but you ignore ignoring it, I feel so dismissed because that word means carries so much weight with me. So that's why it's important to define terms because you or your partner can be using words that don't mean the same thing to you. So for us, the word important was. This is sacred. Do we agree? Yes. So if I say the word important, that means you drop everything. And in our entire 20 year marriage, we've been together for 22 years, only once have we both said something's important at the same time. Wow. So I was basically like, hey, this is really important to me. So he was traveling, we were going through a very, very difficult time, not in our relationship, but in business. And I said, it's. It's important you stay. And he said, baby, it's important. I go, wow. And now how do you handle the first time in literally 22 years, how do you handle that? And so in that moment, well, it was the first time we ever clashed because we've never clashed before. I said, okay, explain to me why it's important to you and I'll explain to you why it's important to me. And so I said to him, babe, it's important to me because I need support right now. I really need someone. I feel weak. I need you to be here for me. And so that's why it's important. And he said, I need to go because this is my identity and if I don't go, I don't know who I am, fundamentally, because this doesn't align with the person I say I am. And I was like, God damn. I was like, all right, that actually carries more weight than me feeling alone like it really does. And the fact that we were very open about it. I said, okay, this isn't an identity thing for me. This is. I feel a little weak, but maybe this is actually great because now I'VE identified something that's weak in me, and I need to build up my own strength within myself and not have you as my safety net, even though I think it's important that your partners are. But maybe this is actually something that I can get better at, and maybe this is a great thing that now I've seen that this is something I can evolve in. But you are literally conflicting with your identity. I won't be a part of that. So I support you. But the final thing, Lori, is I know thyself. And I knew I also had to process, though, still feeling alone, because if I didn't, you want to know, like, resentment and contempt are, like, the two things that I think will create any divorce, like, nightmare. Like, it is resentment and contempt in your partner. So in that moment where I was like, this is the moment that if I hold on to it five or ten years from now, it's going to come out in a massive argument and there's no turning back.

Oh, man. I mean, that brought up a lot for me because, you know, Chris and I have been together almost 18 years. I mean, technically 21 years. I think you guys have been together a really long time as well, you know, so there's been a lot of moments that you've had before these. You guys are listening to these incredible conversations in communication right now. But it was built off of not having incredible conversations. And, you know, I. I think the resentment thing, right, as you were saying that when he was like, this is my identity, like, I need to go and do this so that it, you know, or. Or it doesn't align. It's like, oh, my gosh. The. The feeling that I had was so visceral around, like, oh, well, I don't want to ever get in the way of my partner not being who they came here to be. And it's like, oh, my gosh. I literally think that if we can support each other ultimately, if that's like, the ultimate support, like I watch you and Tom do for each other, like, truly, you support each other in the humans that you came here to be. And that. That might require being uncomfortable sometimes. Right. Or learning these.

This is.

This is not an easy thing to do, what you're teaching and what you have to learn. This new communication, it's a whole new world of communication. But the blessings are rich on the other side. That is so interesting. I love this. Okay, so language.

Yeah. Defining terms.

Yeah.

Okay, let me just give you a silly little example for, like, for instance, it's even behavior. Right? So Even if as you show up in your business or as you show up in your relationship, you're going to perceive something based on your frame of reference. And so everything is about your own frame of reference that you put onto other people. So, perfect example is the very first time Tom met my family. So I'm Greek. I come from. From a very, very loud, Greek, boisterous family. In fact, most of them are. So Tom comes in, he meets my family, and we leave. And I'm like, aren't they amazing? And he's like, they're so rude. I was like, what? I was what? I was horrid. He was like, your family, your dad is so rude. And I was like, what the hell? He's like, babe. He's like, everyone was talking over each other. Your dad asked me a question. He doesn't listen, and so he starts saying all these things that he perceived as disrespectful and rude. I was like, oh, no, that means they've welcomed you into the family. That means that they. They literally just think of you as one of us, and so of course they're going to talk over you. So frame of reference, Tom comes from a family where you wait for someone to stop talking and if you don't, it's disrespectful. But my frame of reference is, you're one of us. If we don't even think twice, we cut you off and speak over you. That means that you've. You're in the family. And so think about that with your partner. Think about how you show up every day in every little way where. Where your partner may throw their socks on the floor, and now you perceive that as total disrespect because you spend the last three hours cleaning and they come home and they take their bloody socks off. But maybe from their perspective, taking their socks off is a sign of, I'm home. It's the one place that I feel free. And you've created that space for your partner to feel free in this space. So now you're conflicting over something that actually is just a frame of reference. So that's why I say define terms, define your language. Because whether it's in business or in your personal life, just in general, you're going to clash over things just because you're not actually saying the same thing, but you think you are.

Oh, my God, Lisa. It was a personal attack. When Chris would not get his shorts into the laundry basket. To me, I was like, he must hate me. He disrespects me. I'M like, I don't understand how you just came. It's next to it. Why can't you put it in? This was a true area in our marriage for a while when I was younger. That was, like, so challenging for me because it felt like disrespect. And you know what? One of the ways that we solved it literally hired a cleaner because he could not do it. It just was not in his DNA to get the laundry in the basket. And I resented him so much that we had a conversation and sat down and he was like, look, I don't want to have to be so clean at my house, because my level of. I think what I want in my home is I always want it clean. And he's like, I don't always care if it's clean. So this was a huge spot of contempt for us. And I was like, well, I care. It bothers me. I feel the energy of the stuff on the floor. I don't want it there. It makes me feel chaos. And so we were like, what can we do? He was like, we need to hire a cleaner because I need to be able to, like, have the freedom to be me and not worry. And then you need to feel like you get it your way as well. Well, so it was.

Can I ask you a question?

Yes.

Did you feel. Because this literally happened with me and Tom, did you feel a little superior about, like, wanting it clean and you couldn't believe that he didn't?

I guess I do feel that way about, like, cleanly people. I still.

Because. So here's the thing. I laugh about it, but this is. These are the things that really can make or break a local relationship. So I definitely thought of Tom as being a slight job.

Yeah, totally.

And I'm just like, how can you work? Like, I would literally almost look that. And I didn't mean to until he started to vocalize it. He's like, you know, your weight isn't right and mine's wrong. And I was like, what do you mean? Because I was brought up in a house where you always make your bed, you always tidy up as soon as you're done eating, you clean your plate and you put it away as soon as you're done. Tom grew up in a place where he's like, yeah, leave this. This the plate stacked act. And because he so values time, he sees any amount of cleaning as a literally against his value system because he thinks that it isn't priority. And so if he spends time cleaning, it is actually against his value of making his life productive. And so now we're not just clashing over opinion. It's about his way of his value system against my value system. Because I'm exactly like you, Laurie. If the place is messy, I feel chaotic. If I feel chaotic, I can't focus. If I can't focus, I can't get good work done. So I can track it to my performance, and he can track it to his performance because he doesn't care. He doesn't feel the chaos. And so now. But he does feel the fact that making a bed or picking up his clothes isn't productive. And so we had that discussion. It was a value system. It wasn't a, I like it clean, you like it messy. It was, I value this, and he valued this, this. And neither is right or wrong. So if you go, neither is right or wrong, neither is superior. How do we navigate this together? Because going back to what we said, right, the goal is to have a successful relationship or a successful business or right, obviously, or both. So now that we know this is a value system, how do we navigate this so that we both feel respected and we both feel like our values are validated, if you will. And so with the cleanliness thing, I gave him a big box. That was our solution. So I literally said, babe, here's a big box. And he's like, cool, I'm going to put this box right next to my bed, and you can't touch it. And so he just put all this crap in that box. All this crap. And I was like, the great news is I. It's one box and it's over here. And then the other solution was the bed. So the bed was a big one. I wanted the bed made. And he was like, why will I ever make the bed? So I was like, cool. The agreement was, I'll just make the bed. You don't have to do it. But then the problem came. He had to unmake the bed. He was like, now you're making me waste time unmaking the bloody bed. Because we have our own duvets, so that we've got our different temperatures and our different ways of sleeping. He puts his duvet over his head. I can't breathe. So anyway, that's why we have different duvets. So now comes the bed making. Now, this is the sort of thing that, honestly, Lori, I hear couples, they get divorced over because you think it's about making the bed, but it's not. Not. It's about the disrespect. It's about the value System. It's about the fact that one, maybe one person always gets their way, and the other person feels so dismissed for so long that eventually they're just like, hang on a minute. When am I actually going to get things my way? And so with the bed, we literally sat down and said, okay, how are we actually going to address this? Because I need it done. And I'm never always going to be there before you can. You are. So we said, cool. What we agreed on is I can't touch his side of the bed. Bed. And so what I do, Laurie, is literally, you look at our bed, and he's got his duvet covers all crumpled up. And then you look at my side of the bed, and it's perfectly made. And that was our solution. And so you can see how something that can be silly, we just process. Oh, this isn't silly. This is the precisely the thing that 20 years people say they're this and they're that and they're screaming and the love is out of the relationship. And you're like, how the hell did it happen? And you know the answer most people give? I blinked and were like this. No, no, you didn't blink. You just didn't pay attention to the fact that these little things that you dismissed as petty were actually the biggest issues that you should have addressed, because it creeps into every area of your relationship.

I love that we got to hear. Because honestly, I think that Chris and I started our. We started the foundation of communication through these small things. And the small things at the time were not the small things. They were the big things. Like, when we first got married, these were big things that you move in with someone and you're like. Like, oh, I'm really clean. You're messy. My cleanliness is driving you absolutely nuts to the point where you think it's like an actual problem with me. And I think this is a problem, a fundamental problem with you. And it. You either feel like you can live with it, or there's this. There's this moment I'm just even trying to remember what made us talk about it. I think it was like. I think ultimately we've always wanted the same vision, and that was a conversation we had. So do you remember, like, what was the. A. What do you think is a really good conversation to have to even start working these problems out? Is it like, hey, why don't we define a vision? Or, I know even recently, we did something super fun. Like, we did a mission statement for our marriage. Not necessarily that you want to do that in the beginning. But it was like we needed to get on the same page, knowing that we could be on different tracks, but on the same page.

Oh, God, yeah. 100. I actually love that mission statement. Like, I think that that's super important, to be honest. So I think, think it becomes a, like, agreeing on the end goal. So, like, and it may sound silly, but we just agreed we want to grow old together and happily grow old together. I want to, like, be on my deathbed and look over him and take my last breath. So that isn't like a joke. I actually mean that, Lori. And so if we both mean it and we both say, just like any business, would a business succeed if you didn't put time, energy, and consistency into your business and attention and be willing to hear the hard thing and pivot, of course your business would fail. So if my relationship with my husband is the most important thing in my life, why wouldn't I put time, effort, and energy into it, figure out what's working, what's not? And so that's where we agreed. I can't remember who said it. It was a guest that actually Tom had on his show once and they, they went to a therapist and because they were having problems in their marriage. And the third, the therapist turned around and said, okay, every relationship is going to take work. Every relationship. So what you need to decide on is this the person worth working on that relationship with.

So good. It's, like, so simple.

So simple.

We just weren't taught that. We just weren't taught that growing up. Like, I had never heard that. That's so simple and amazing.

And it, like, it really hit me. I was like, oh, there was. Why? If you can say with utter honesty, I want a happy, successful relationship, now you know. Now you know. Yes. That means you have to hear the hard things. It means you have to have the hard discussions. It means that you have to be willing to pivot. It means that you have to be willing to evolve. It means you have to be willing to ask each other tough questions that maybe you don't want to hear the answer to. So Tom and I leave our ourselves space that probably every six months, at least every year, we have the hard conversations, and we've agreed that we're going to have the hard conversations all the time. And so the hard conversations look like, for instance, what did I used to do for you that you wish I still did? What's a habit I've adopted that you don't think serves our relationship? These are hard questions because it's about you, it's about what your partner isn't like happy with in it presence. But if you agree, going back to what did you agree on? That you want to die together, so you can understand why I actually want to hear the answer, you can understand why I don't get defensive in these conversations because I've decided I need to hear it in service of having that long term healthy relationship. So if you're just starting out, it becomes having these discussions. All right, what are you looking for? Are you looking to die together happy? Are you looking to, to navigate hardship together? Are you looking obviously, once maybe you've decided that this is a long term thing and then saying, so what does that look like? And the funny thing is Tom and I always say if you need to use me and Tom as your gateway, you know, like this interview for instance, if this helps, say, hey, I just really had a really fascinating interview with Lori and Lisa, babe, you got to check it out. And this just gives you permission to have that first discussion that then says what works for you. But it all comes from, and I'm going to be honest also this is actually the final thing is are you with someone that's willing to do the work? Are you with someone that has a growth mindset? Because if you're with someone that has a fixed mindset, they'll dismiss everything we're saying. They'll dismiss everything they won't be willing to because they can't get out of their own way. They can't get out of their ego. And look, again, no judgment, but it's going to be very difficult to have a conversation with someone if your partner has a fixed mindset.

Oh my gosh, this is so good. I feel like you guys need to put a place where we can have all of these questions that we can just have a list of questions as conversation starters. Just saying if you could start, you know, another business. I know you guys aren't busy right now.

Well, the funny thing is actually, so we actually do have a relationship book questions and oh God, I wish I had it. I don't know the link. Oh man, this is me notes.

We're putting it in show notes.

So it's literally a free downloadable PDF that would be amazing if you could put it in the show notes because and it's in stages. So it goes from these are really easy questions to ask your partner when no one's going to get defensive. And then it goes into basically the master class of questions of like this is where you ask the questions that you have to work up to it. But yeah, I would love to share that PDF with you guys.

Oh, we didn't even know we were gonna get.

I know I didn't.

Yeah, perfect buildup of a gift at the end. Well, I want it, so I'm gonna make sure to follow up. I'm obsessed with questions. They're the gateway to everything that you want in life. They're the gateway to your highest version of yourself. You just have to make sure you're asking the right questions and the right people. So these questions are so exciting. We'll put them in the show notes. You guys go down, scroll down. You can see them in the link right there. And Lisa, I'm so grateful for you. Oh my God. Like, okay, you guys, she has an incredible podcast, Women of Impact. Go subscribe, rate, review, do all of the things. But I love your podcast. I've been able to be on it before and you do, and you're coming on it again.

I literally like, yeah, when you come into la, you gotta come on again.

Well, now that that's out there, we're definitely, we're gonna just come up and have some fun. So I'm so grateful for you. Any, any last thing you want to.

Leave everyone with, just the fact that you're freaking awesome and you know, like, this friendship over time has really just been so beautiful for me. And you know, we're under the Growth Day Network, loving Brendan Burchard and really coming together and supporting each other. It's so exciting for me. And you know, thank you for having me on and impacting the world, like how you show up every day. I think I said this the last time I was on, but like, homie, I've so admired you as a podcast host. Like, you are the absolute epitome, you hold the gold standard. And the very first time I came on, I was just absolutely shitting myself. If I could be honest. I think I already said this to you, but I was so damn nervous. And so I just want really people to know that, that who you were, who you are today doesn't dictate the person you can show up to be. And so whether that is in a relationship or whether that's in your business or whether that's as an individual, like, know that you can refine your craft, you can get better every single day.

Oh, good lord. I can't even follow that up. That made me teary eyed. So grateful for you. You guys definitely go follow our podcast. Go check it out and go get the free gift of questions. And until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.