From 0 to $5M in 2 Years: Strategies to Scale Fast and Profitably with Siff Haider

We took money on, but we were really intentional about who we took it from, which is something that I would tell other founders if they are going in to raise money. You are marrying someone. Okay. Like, let's not get it twisted. Make sure you like them. Make sure you do your due diligence. It's not a one sided transaction. It's both. They gotta like you, you gotta like them.

This is your life. Like, you're a builder, you're a creator, and so you, you have to integrate what you like doing and who you like.

Exactly.

And who you enjoy because it will be what you're doing and thinking about every single day. Sif, welcome to the earn your happy podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. I have been a very long time listener of yours and so this is very exciting.

This is mind blowing to me. Like when I. I remember when we got the email for me to come on your podcast, I was like, is hurt. She. She listens. Hold on a minute. That's crazy. How did you find it?

That is crazy to me because I think I found your work, like 2018, I want to say.

You are kidding me.

No, I'm not joking. And that, like, I got into like, personal development and all of that, I want to say in like 2014, 2015. And you were one of the first people I stumbled on and I just, I loved, I love the idea of earning your happy. It is so empowering. And I, like, I learned a lot from you. And so, you know, like, your podcast was on and off on my, like, Apple podcast listener, like history for like ages. And so, you know, at one point I was like, I have to get her on at some point. And so I was so happy when we could make it happen. And now I'm here. It's very full circle.

I love that so much. So you're saying I can fully take credit for all of your success?

Of course. Course.

Okay, so you also have a podcast.

I do.

You have dream the dream bigger Podcast. And we were just talking about how, like, before, it doesn't matter how many podcasts you've done. I think I've now done over 1400 podcasts.

Insane.

And you've done. You. You've had your podcast for a few years now.

Yeah, 2019 is when I launched it. 2019. Oh my God.

You've had it a while.

Yeah, it's been a minute.

Okay. I didn't know you.

300 plus episodes.

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

I signed with J Media in 2020. 1. But I. I used to self. I did everything. I did every job.

I love that. So I thought you launched with Dear Media, but you were doing that on your own, probably in a closet somewhere.

Literally. Yeah, in my, like, tiny little apartment. Initially it was me doing all the edits, everything. Then I brought my brother on as my assistant, and then he.

My family. Yeah, literally my brother and my husband's.

Brother works for us. I love that. And then I signed with Dear Media in 2021. So I actually started the podcast before array even. So I had for a while. And I'm just. I mean, I'm like you. I feel like we're both very curious people, and I think that that is one of the qualities that you need in order to sustain a podcast over the long run. Like, you have to genuinely love it and be curious and want to, like, share good information with people.

Totally. So you were. So you listened. I know you said you found my podcast. What else were you kind of listening to? And what were some of the. Tell me some of, like, the breakthrough moments for you or what? What do you mean by that is, like, when you were first starting out on your personal development journey, like, what were some of the mindset that you had to get over, and what were you finding? Like, whether it was books or podcasts that help you break through it?

So I actually love this question because when I reflect back on who I was before I started, before I really got intentional about wanting to shift, I was a completely different person. I was very much someone who was in a victim mindset. I felt like I couldn't control the outcome of things. I felt like life was happening to me, and I just wanted to shift that. And so initially, actually, the funny thing is, the first book that I got in this category was the Secret. Okay. And it's from my mom. She was like, you need to read this book. And this was back in 2014. And I remember I was reading it on the plane ride because I was away in Europe with my family, and I. I was going back to Toronto. I lived in Canada back then, and I was on the plane reading the book, and basically, I was panicked about. This is like the smallest little thing, but it's just like, it shows the power, and that's what I went all in. It was back then for the luggage carts, you know, like, to. For, like, to store all your. To take all your luggage and, like, the carts. You know what I mean?

Yeah, totally.

Okay. So there was a system back then where you had to put in, like, a dollar coin to get that card. And I had so much luggage. And so I was on the plane, panicking, like, what am I going to do? I don't have a dollar. Like, how am I going to get this cart? And then I was like, okay, no, let me test what the secret book says. Let's see if it works. I'm just going to do a little experiment and see if I can calm my mind and just know that the universe is going to take care of me and that it's. It's all going to be okay. And I get there, and they had removed the dollar system, and so all the carts were free. And at that point, I was like, okay, the shit works.

This shit works.

This shit works. And it was so small, but that's kind of what set me on my path. And then it was, you know, taking ownership, really taking intentional actions to push myself forward. It was building habits and kind of showing up as the version of myself who had the things that I really wanted and just becoming really intentional about those things. And it wasn't just from a career standpoint, because at the end of the day, everything kind of bleeds into each other.

Yeah.

And so it was me showing up as the best partner that I could be and being really intentional about how I was spending my time, even getting really intentional about my insecurities around. Okay, if I'm gossiping, why do I do that? Why am I doing that first? It's like, such bad energy. But why do I even feel the need to comment on someone else's life decisions, you know? So that was like a journey. I mean, I'm still on that journey. You know, you don't just arrive one day and you're like, okay, Dalai Lama vibes.

Yeah, so same.

Yeah.

Where. So where were you working at that point? What were you doing for a living?

So 2014, I had just graduated, and so I was actually, like, on that plane ride, I was coming back to Toronto to start an internship in pr. So I did that, and then I went on to work for Elle, like, the magazine. And then that was, like, in their Canadian offices. And then while I was working at Elle, I had a blog, and I was kind of doing both at the same time. And a year into my role, at a little bit over a year, I decided that I was going to leave my job there and go all in on my blog because, you know, it was. I was young, and I was like, okay, I may as well try this out, and let's see what happens. And that was the blog about it was. It was actually like, an interesting foray into array. I feel like it's all, like, as I look back on it, I'm like, oh, like, that was just, like, the path that I was meant to be on. But essentially it was. It was everything from beauty to skin care to wellness. And I would share really in depth things about. Things I'd read, I learned about from a book that I was implementing in my own life. And then what would happen was anytime I'd put out an article and they were like, pretty detailed articles on, like, okay, like, this is the skincare I'm using, and blah, blah, blah. This is why.

Yeah.

People would ask me more questions like, oh, can you, like, go more into the science? And I was always someone who was very curious again. And I was always reading and looking at scientific papers. So then I had this realization. I was like, what if I could bring this information that I'm constantly learning directly from the source and give it to my audience? And so that was the idea behind the podcast, because I was like, everyone's dream looks a little bit different. How can I help people achieve their dreams, whatever their dreams are? And so it was speaking to top dermatologists, top wellness experts, then founders, and kind of giving people the tools that they needed from successful people to achieve what they wanted for themselves as well.

Okay, so the pot. The podcast was born. You're doing all the personal development. When does the idea for array come in?

2018. Okay, so I got into health and wellness in 2015.

And what did that look like? What was the initial getting into health and wellness?

So I. It's funny because I feel like all these improvements in my life and the intent in the intention, intentionality, kind of began all around, like a one, two year timeline. So for my entire life, I was someone with a really poor immune system. So I was perpetually on this hamster wheel of getting sick, taking antibiotics, getting better, doing it over and over and over again.

Yeah.

And I mean, it had gotten bad to the point where, like, I mean, this is tmi. But I became all of a sudden, very prone to UTIs. And then I became antibiotic resistant. And because I was just popping it.

Like, that's a nightmare.

It's terrible.

Horrible.

Like, it's also very scary because I wasn't getting to the root of anything.

Yeah.

And I had no guidance. And so in my early 20s, when I started working at Elle, actually, I ended up fracturing a rib from a chronic cough. And I went to my doctor. They obviously did the x Ray, they were like, well, your ribs fractured. And I was like, wow, okay. Crazy.

Crazy from coughing.

From coughing as a 23 year old, I think. 23, 24. Like, that's. You're pretty young.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, well, what do I do to make sure something like this doesn't happen again? They're like, here's some codeine, Go home, you'll be fine. And I was like, oh my God.

Great, wonderful. Thank you so much.

Yeah, I, I mean, it was just, here's something that'll help you day. And then that's it. There's no guidance as to what you can do afterwards. And so at that point, I feel like something in me broke where I was like, I have been doing things this one way for a really long time. It's just not working anymore. I need to change something. So let me look into the holistic world, which back then was very granola, very. I mean, it just wasn't like a cool thing that. No, the girls were doing. I remember it was, it was a weird, it was a weird segment of people. And I mean, it was just all this so inaccessible. Right? And so I just, I was like, okay, I'm gonna look into every book I can find, every scientific paper I can find on everything from overall lifestyle, but also herbs, minerals, vitamins, like, what can I take to also start to feel better? And became this guinea pig on myself and started to see changes in my immune system. And then I kind of got obsessed with health and wellness where I was like, I, I, you have so much power. It felt like the power was back in my hands totally, you know, and it was a very empowering feeling. And so from there it was just me, you know, getting really into the nitty gritty of how could I fix anything that I was dealing with, you know, if it was bloating or whatever these issues were that I was dealing with. And in 2018, I remember sitting on our couch and I was telling Nish, I was like, I wish I could create a supplement that would just address these problems and doing do it in a really chic way, like, there's nothing out there like this. And he's like, well, let's do it. And so in 2018 is when we had the idea for Array. That's when we started to work on it. And it took us two years to get it to market. I mean, it's ingestibles. It is. Obviously it has to be perfect, but yeah, that was, that was the journey. But all of those things, whether it Was me deciding to kind of take ownership of where my life was at all the way into my house. It all started to happen in tandem.

I feel like that's. That's typically. I feel like in order to launch what you launched as well, I feel like there has to be a passion behind it. There has to be such an interest, because there's no way that you've gotten to where you are right now without being interested in it. And also having it be a piece of your life, like an actual part of your life that's so integrated that it's. It's something that's so second nature to you, or it just. I see so many things die when that's not how people start. When it's just like, oh, it's a thing I could be interested in, or it's trendy or that's the thing.

I think your soul needs to be in it.

I think your soul has to, like. Yes. Be intertwined. It has to come from gutturally within.

Yeah, exactly. And I just. I don't think you can build a true. I mean, maybe some people can. Okay. But I wasn't built to create something just as a means 10 and. Or just as a money grab. Like, that's just not who I am. I'm really driven by purpose. And I feel like when I do something, I have to be all in or I just can't get myself to do it.

So totally. You know, I try to, you know, the people who maybe do it who aren't passionately in it about the product. I have met people, which is an interesting perspective, who are so passionate about the build.

Exactly. So.

But you have to have that passion.

You have to have one or the other. Because, I mean, at the end of the day, okay, they're a little bit different, but they're also kind of the same because you're either interested in the. The act of building the business or the product, you know, in some. In some cases, both as well. So. But it's very important to be intrinsically motivated by that.

Okay, so we're sitting on the couch. You're sitting on the couch with your husband, and he says, let's build it.

Yeah.

And you're just like. Yeah. Or were you like. All the things come up of going, wait, who want me to do this? What are we. What are you feeling in that moment?

The most excitement.

Okay, tell them.

Tell me the excitement. I just. It's so funny because for me, I feel like doubt around doing something. It doesn't really arise. I don't know why it's like that. I think it's just some part of my DNA where if I feel like I'm meant to do something, I'm just going to do it. And I, the failure part isn't in my brain because I'm like, I can't sit here and not do something. If I don't do something, it'll bother me more than if I were to do it and fail. So when it was let's do it, I was like, let's do it, it. I've never been more ready to do anything in my life. And I also knew as well that I had the best built in co founder with Niche. I mean, we covered every base. And I was so acutely aware of that, going into business with him where I was like, there's no way, like, knock on wood, I was like, there's no way this can fail if it's the two of us. Like, we, like, from a logistical perspective, we covered too much ground and we were both equally good at the things that the other was bad at. So I was like, we're gonna figure this out. We're just gonna figure this out.

Yeah. Okay. So to somebody who's thinking about it right now, who maybe doesn't have that person as well, but like, we want to borrow part of the thing where you, you, you had said, you know, there is, there isn't a part of me that's like, what, what else would I be doing? Like, let's build this. What else would I be doing?

Yeah.

What would you tell them to focus on? Like, what, what should they do to get to that place?

I think from a mindset perspective, I think coming to terms with the fact that I feel like life is too short to sit there and wonder what could have been. Right.

So short, so fast.

Yeah. And also there was this book that I read by the author who wrote Eat Pray Love.

Elizabeth Gilbert.

Yes.

Big Magic.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. And there's this thing that she talks about and I read this when that book initially came out and it always stuck with me where it's like, ideas are these, like fluid things that have a mind or body or whatever of their own. Okay. And they come and they land on someone and they, they kind of poke at you. But if you aren't the person who decides to partner with that idea, it will go to that other person because you weren't meant to do it. So I, I feel like that's the case. So if there is someone who's listening here and they have this feeling, this, like, instinct that, okay, there is this idea that I really want to do, but. But what if there's too much competition? You know, what if. I mean, it's been done. Maybe it's been done really well. Okay, so I'll say two things. Number one is that the competition thing is such a limiting belief, because let's look at restaurants, let's look at actors, let's look at singers, let's look at any. Any of these different industries. There's new restaurants that come up all the time. There's new actors, there's new stuff. Singers, there's new movies. And somehow the best always rises to the top. There's room there. It's never that. It's a finite amount of space. If you have something that is truly special, there's no reason why it won't succeed. Right. And then the other thing I will say is that if you think that something has been done, but you don't know who's done it, it means that it's not been done well enough because you'd know it. And then also think about this. If you are in a new category and there's other people now working on it. Let's talk about clean makeup, for example. That category exploded because more brands started to come into it. So why are you scared of other people coming into it? It just means the category will get bigger and more people will be aware of it. So it's actually very exciting.

It's really good. It educates.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm in that spot right now with my company. I'm like, okay. I'm seeing all these people start doing it. I'm like, that's good. Because people are not aware of exactly what it's doing. So. And all of those fears are so normal. And I love. I loved that part of Elizabeth's book.

Yes.

Oh, my God. It's. And there's also another. I think it's actually Plato's theory. I've been trying to find exactly where it is, but it's the same kind of idea. But you'll love this. It's that there's all of these ideas kind of, like, up in a cloud.

Yeah.

I just literally picture the cloud.

Yeah, the cloud of ideas.

Yeah, exactly. And they're also ideas that are, like, for that time in history, and they're all coming down and waiting for someone to land. And if you don't grab it and, like, you know, get obsessed with it, it will go to someone else, because it's meant to come out in that Time frame.

Oh, I love that.

I love that, too. I'm like, nope, it was meant to come out in this time frame. Grab it. Even if it seems early, even if it seems late. But if you're getting hit with it so hard that you feel like this has to exist, or why doesn't this exist yet? Or why isn't this thing better? Like, you're the person who can do it.

Yeah.

And I remember even getting the first ideas and going, okay, but maybe not me. Like, why me? And then I was like, well, why not me? And the questions just shift. And everything that you're saying is, like, you haven't focused once on, like, the. You know, why should this be me? Because you didn't have prior history to launching a product at all.

Never.

Did you have a bunch of friends who were launching products.

No one.

Were you in that realm, that circle.

It was just me. It was me and Nish. We were so. We didn't know anyone. You know, it was. We were like two random people deciding to go on this journey with no. No one to look at except for books, TED talks, podcasts. That's. Those were our friends at that point. You know, those were our peers because we didn't have any in real life.

Totally.

But, you know, the. The thought process of you are, you know, the five most around. That doesn't have to mean literally.

Right.

It can mean through books and podcasts and TED Talks and whatever you can have access to. It will shift who you are.

Oh, my God. That was me in the beginning. I was like, these people have no idea. They're like my best friends. Truly.

No, Laurie, you're one of my best friends. I hope you know.

I wish you would have told me in real life. I would have been your friend. That makes me so. Nothing. Nothing makes me happier than getting to sit here knowing that I was talking to you.

Yeah, you did. So exciting. And you were talking to me at a point where I wasn't who I am today. So you helped. You were one of the people who helped shape me into who I am. So you should know that, like, your work is so impactful and it touches a lot of people.

Well, now I'm equally getting to. I'm listening to your podcast all the time right now because I'm on the founder journey, like, four years behind you.

Yeah.

This is such a. It's such a cool moment for me because I'm like, this is so cool to hear because I've been listening to all of your. Like, this is what I would do this is what I wouldn't do. And so that. That brings me to the next question of, okay, we know we're gonna do it. We're moving forward. How do we start? Like, does formulation come first? Are you thinking about business? Like, where do you guys all start? And what does that two years look like to launch?

So for us, it was formulation first, because we were like, we want the best product on the market. And there was no one in the market, really, but we were like, we just wanna be the best. And so I, thankfully, because I was so interested in health and wellness, and I had my blog and all of that, I had friends who were in health and wellness, like nutritionists and, like, you know, doctors and so on and so forth. And so one of my best friends is a nutritionist, Jordana. I heart nutrition. People should follow her. She's incredible. Okay, so she's. She's been one of my best friends for years. And when I had this idea, I went to her and I was like, jord, I have this idea. Do you by any chance know any doctors or formulators who I can talk to? And it was just like that where I started to just wherever. Whoever I could see speak to, who could introduce me to someone, that's kind of what I would do. And she was like, I actually know someone who you should speak to. And so she introduced me to one of her friends, and she was the one who helped us formulate our first two products. And then from there, we worked with different doctors. Now our entire R and D team is in house where we have, you know, people from medical backgrounds who work at array, who work on the formulations. So, I mean, it's been stages and stages, but our brand is built on a foundation of product. It's not built. The foundation is in good marketing. The foundation is great product. That was always the ethos of the brand. And so the first thing we focused on was product. And then it was. It took us a year and a half, probably, to perfect the formulas. And so while that was happening in tandem, it was okay, how do we find a manufacturer who can, you know, source the ingredients that we want and also take on a smaller quantity? Because we were bootstrapping the whole thing. You know, we didn't have investors, we didn't. We didn't have all this money to throw around. So it was very scrappy. And so we were speak. I think I got on a hundred different manufacturing calls, like, begging people to take a small quantity order.

What. What were you working with in the beginning? Like, how Much money.

Did you start with 50 or 60 000.

Okay.

Together. Yeah.

Which, which you guys in this industry is not a lot like that. Most people wouldn't even look at that for a first run.

It's like, honestly, it's, it's, it's comical because, I mean, now when we place our pos, it's like multi, multi, like large millions of dollars. And, you know, that's when you start to be taken seriously. So, thankfully, we were able to find a manufacturer just outside of Toronto, and they were able to get the kind of ingredients that we wanted. We wanted everything organic, everything of the highest quality. We were very particular. And they agreed to do a small run of a thousand units, which back then felt like, like, oh, my God, this is so much.

Yeah.

But, you know, we, we got it there and then it was about figuring out what our branding would be, packaging. I mean, there's so many layers.

So you were in Canada at the time doing this, launching a supplement.

Yeah, this was Canada. Yes. We didn't move until 2022.

And they're way more strict with their supplements.

Yep.

Which also makes for a really great product.

Exactly, exactly. So our standards are obviously very high because we're a Canadian brand and Canadian regulations are really, really. It is a regulated industry in Canada, and so we kind of had to follow that, which is why it also took us so long because once we developed the product, we had to submit that to, you know, Natural Health Canada or Health Canada rather, to get our natural product number. And so it's a whole process that takes another six months. And if they have any edits, then you have to go make those edits and then resubmit. So it's, It's a whole process. I mean, I think. I mean, I can only speak to this industry because this is what I'm in. But I think supplements in general are complex to launch.

Very. Yes. Definitely had a long, long lead time of figuring it all out for sure. Okay, so 2018, you got the idea. So that means 2020, you are launching. Okay, how does that feel to be launching?

Well, that time we launched March 2020, so the world launched Covid. We launched array.

Exactly.

I mean, look, when you're starting a new business, when you're launching a new business, you already. There's already so many unknowns. And then to add to the mix was this global pandemic. We didn't even know if our products were getting across the border to customers. I mean, I remember going to the post office with, you know, the orders that I was packing up for us customers and literally being like, please take this. And he's like, I don't know. We'll obviously post it out, but we don't even know if products are crossing the border. I was like, please. Like, please.

Yes.

And so thankfully, they did make it to customers, and that's just kind of how we grew. What ended up happening was, even though operationally it was very challenging because there were so many unknowns, I think it was a blessing that we launched during that time because I think there was also this increase of people becoming conscious of their health.

Yes.

And of people being so out of their routine, essentially, that they were dealing with things like bloating and anxiety. And there were our two products, Bloat and Calm, to help them combat that. And so I think it was a blessing for us because our brand was able to really grow and also help people at a time where they really needed the help. So we were very lucky. And, you know, again, it's what you said about the product needing to be there at that time, I really. As you said it, I was like. I kind of got chills because I was like, it's true, like the. That the world at that time needed these products, and if we hadn't done it, someone else would have.

Oh, my God. It's giving me. It's giving me chills back. Like, we're just. We're trading.

Yeah.

Okay, so tell me about where the company is at. Like, how does it start growing? What does the first year look like?

So.

And what are you doing?

Okay, so when we started, I mean, as I said, we had. We had no money. You know, it was.

So you spent, like, most of it on.

We spent, like, I think we had. So our entire motto is take the biggest risk possible that doesn't kick you out of the game. So essentially, God forbid if there's a mistake. We always had a little bit of cash reserve so that we would never go out of business. So I think out of 60,000, I think we spent like 40. We had 20 in reserve, God forbid if something went wrong. And just to keep the business going, essentially. And so when we launched, it was. I mean, it's a new business, so barely anyone's purchasing. There were some people, because I had my audience, thankfully, and so they were purchasing, and then they were telling their friends, and it was kind of growing that way.

Yeah. And you have a subscription model.

Did you?

Back then? You didn't. It was just reorder.

Yeah, it was. It was just reorders. But what happened in our second month of business, and I will forever be grateful to her, is there's an influencer, Melissa Wood Tupperberg.

Yeah.

And she ended up talking about us on a live, and I didn't know what was happening. Essentially, we were sit. I. I remember the moment so clearly because Nish and I were just sitting there in bed and our Shopify starts to go off, and we were like, what's, what's happening? Like, where are all these sales coming from? And one of my followers sent me a screenshot of Melissa talking about us on a live. And then a few weeks later, she talked about us on stories, and that's kind of how the brand started to grow. So essentially, in our first month of business, we did $8,000. In our second month, we did 30. And the next month we did 100. Wow. And within our. In under a year of launching the business, we did our first million. And so that's kind of when we were on a roll and we just kind of kept going and building on the momentum and, you know, growing the business.

Wow. So it took off through word of mouth from somebody who was very influential. And did she ever tell you how she found the brand or was it just I gifted? You Gifted? Yes.

I was gifting so heavily, Lori, and I think that that's something that I advise to all brands, which, by the way, is scary when you have, you know, when you're starting out. I feel like every dollar counts, you know, and you're like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm giving all of this away for free. What if they never post? And that's the thing. You just, you can't even put pressure on people. So I was gifting it to micro influencers, I was gifting it to doctors, I was gifting it to naturopathic doctors, nutritionists, fitness instructors. I was gifting it to anyone and everyone. With the premise being, look, I just think this product is going to make your life better. There is no pressure to post nothing. Just try it. Yeah, and that's kind of what happened. Like, Melissa tried it, ended up posting about it, and then the product just kind of blew up. And then obviously I. I mean, I was so grateful to her. I still am. I mean, I don't think our business would have had that start if it hadn't been for her. So I always credit her. And after that, I was like, please, like, let's do a partnership. This is like, I would love to pay you, you know, because you got me started. And so that's kind of how the business started. But it was also so much word of mouth, like our customers were posting us constantly. We also always treated our customers, customers like influencers. And I always say this to new brands that you can't just be thinking about your influencer strategy. Your customers are also influencers. How are you going to treat them in the same way? And so, you know, I was gifting to customers, you know, I would be like, does your best friend want to try it? You like the product? Great. Like, let me send one for you and one for your best friend. Or if it was someone's birthday. I mean, when you're starting out, the great thing is that you have the ability to do the things that you can't do when you've scaled because you are in Shopify, you are talking to every customer. And so we took full advantage of that. We wanted to do as much for the customer and make them feel so special. And so they kept talking about us and it kept growing organically as well. So yeah, I love that, I love.

The passion you have around that of just like getting, getting excited about your brand and gifting and doing all those things. So, and people can do that right now in the first year, even if you set a gifting. You're giving me inspo. I'm like, okay, we'll just set a gifting budget.

Yes. Like, yes.

Okay, let's give this out. And that look like trying to get people to gift it to. It's probably so much follow up even to.

It was so much. I mean it was, I was spending all my time on it, Lori. Like I'm not gonna, I, I, you know, people talk about work, life, balance. I had, there was no balance. Yeah. Whatsoever. And I just think that that's the reality of your first few years of a business. I mean I was working maniacal hours. I mean I'm talking 8am to 3am some days and I was barely sleeping. And I know this is the non glamorous part of starting a business.

It's the truth though. It's the truth people literally need. If they're looking at you going, I.

Want that they have to know this part exactly. And right now, yeah, I'm sleeping seven, eight hours a night. And you know, I, I have time to do all these other things, but at the beginning, no, I was doing everything. And so when it came to gifting, my goal was I need to gift this to first. I think it was 50 people a month. And so, you know, reaching out to 500 because the hit rate is so low.

Yeah.

And you know, kind of building from there, but it was very much manual. I had this Excel sheet with all of my, my, my outreaches. Who I was following up to had it been shipped out. And back then it was, I was doing the shipping. It wasn't some fancy warehouse. It was me. I was the warehouse. So, you know, you kind of do every function.

You make like print T shirts for all startup founders. Every day they're doing something different. Like today I'm the warehouse.

Yeah.

Today I'm the gifter.

Today, today. Today I am the janitor.

Exactly.

I do everything.

Yeah, exactly. So what? Okay, so first year it pops off. That's a really incredible first year.

Yeah.

But you guys are still. Is it just you two? Have we hired anyone? Have we delegated? What are we doing in like end of year one?

So the first hire that we made in year one was someone to help with packaging. And so because that was taking up way too much time and Nish and I were like, there's no way we can focus on even getting this thing out if we are like shipping or packaging. Packaging the orders and then waiting for the, the postman to pick it up from my condo. So that's kind of how it was. That was our first hire. And then. And the packaging people, they were not full time. They were like, kind of like our friends who had been laid off. We were hiring them to help us package. So.

Okay.

We were actually meeting the gap that they.

That's awesome.

Yeah. So I'm so happy that, I mean, you know, a lot of them have gone on obviously to do other things, but that was also something that was so fulfilling that we were able to help people within our networks kind of who had been laid off from their jobs, unfortunately. So that was, you know, the first thing that we did was hire people to help us package. Then we got this email from this girl who was pre med at Brown and she reached out, being like, I love the brand. I just want to come on as an intern. And I was like, sure, we'll bring you on as an intern. She did. And she was our first official hire. Okay. She's still with the company today. She's like my family.

What does she do in the company now?

She's head of product.

Okay.

So I mean, she's mad background and so she was perfect for it. And I mean, but she's done every function in the business with mission. I, I mean, she ping ponged around kind of working with me, working with niche, and then she started out as A great generalist, learning everything and being such a keen learner. And then she always, her. Her ultimate thing was that she wanted to get into product and the nitty gritty of the science there.

Yeah.

And now she's. She's been the lead of that for the last two and a half, three years, I want to say. So.

Okay, so we have someone helping with sending out now. Yeah, we have just a woman who came on. She just.

Yes, she was. Just did everything at first. Everything, Everything. It was getting on calls with manufacturers kind of working on different pos. So that was our first hire. And then after that we brought someone on for operations specifically. So helping making sure that we weren't going out of stock, making sure that, you know, things were being shipped out at the right time, kind of dealing with the manufacturers, like more, I guess, like just in a more detailed fashion. Yeah, because Nish was totally over his head because, I mean, handling operations itself is. It's crazy. And so that was the second hire that we made and that was one of Nish's friends as well. She was with the company for a very long time. She's just moved on, but she's still a very dear friend of ours. Yeah.

Okay, awesome. So year two, do sales slow at all for you guys? Or does. Is it just like taking off like a rocket ship? Or are you like, what. What are you doing for marketing in order to keep the growth going?

So year two, it's still growing, but first year to go from zero to a million. Yeah. Is outrageous. Right.

So then what were your expect expectations for year two or were you able to kind of like dial that in year two?

I think what we were expecting was, was around five, I want to say.

Okay.

We had wanted. I think we came in just shy of that, which to us, we, we're very. I mean, we're very goal oriented people.

I was gonna say, just for everyone, listening to go from 1 to 5 is also insane.

Yeah, it is, it is insane. But you know, we were always like, we want to be best of the best, best in class. That was always the standard that we set for ourselves. So we came in just shy of that, which kind of put us not in the. Of, you know, the, the top, top percentage of startups.

Yeah.

So we were obviously a little bit disappointed. But you know, we were also just learning on the job. So second year, it was all of the things that we were doing from the organic standpoint and we just added in performance marketing, like Facebook ads, which we had no idea what we were doing. No idea.

So who did it for you? You guys started doing it yourself. Okay.

And then we brought on an agency. And I mean, I think, think what you learn while you're going through this is, it's kind of like you make mistakes. And so the first agency we hired, they were fine for like the first couple of months and then they weren't. But we kept them on for too long.

Story of my life. Yep. Did that twice.

Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, it sucks, but it is what it is. So there was that, our emails, that was like a big source of revenue. And then we had a handful of influencer partnerships and those were always done with, with people who had organically talked about us, who loved the brand and who we knew. Like their audience kind of resonated with it as well. And so that's kind of what we did. Year two and then year three, it was hammering down more on that. It was just doing more of what we knew. And then of course, you know, you, you add in new channels as the business grows. Right. So Amazon, I think we brought in year three and a half. And that's like a whole different beast in and of itself. And then we're quick to adopt new things. So when TikTok shop launched, we were quick to get on it. I mean we. You have to experiment when something is new. You just have to learn. And that's been our whole thing that we aren't afraid to try things, fail like, you know, recuperate really quickly, learn iterate, et cetera, et cetera. So I feel like for the first few years it was just doing more and more and more and then it was like bringing on new things slowly.

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So I mean, really easy to begin with is just, you know, you have the pop up on your site that gives people x percent off in exchange for their email and then you have have really interesting campaigns set up, really good flows set up. So campaigns are essentially just big marketing things, whether it's more educational, more cheeky, whatever it is for people to get familiar with the brand. Flows are essentially, you put people in flows either when they join an email list so you can start to kind of educate them on a product or when they buy a product, then we have flows to kind of continue to educate them on what they should expect in a certain period of time. So we have very complex flows and campaign kind of. We have like our email strategy is, I would say, something I'm very proud of because it's kind of down to science and we're very, very particular. So email was always really big. We were also always very clear about our brand tone of voice. And so I think with emails that's something that really helps. So we were getting emails both from just the pop up that we had on the site and then we would do like giveaways and stuff for emails. Like, you know, enter in your thing and you get like, like however much product or whatever we did for giveaways, so things like that.

And who was doing the emails at the time? Was that like you initially wanting to do that or did you hire people, a team who did emails really well.

It was Nish and I to begin with. We did everything Lori and then after that we brought on an agency to kind of help us schedule things. But I did the copywriting all of every single email. Wow. For the first three and a half years of the business.

Oh, wow. So see, that's so powerful. I think when a founder stays in, like either email or social or something for a while.

Yeah.

Because I think that helps develop the voice.

Yeah. And even now, I mean, our lead creative strategist and copywriter is incredibly talented. I mean, I feel like she understands everything perfectly. But still, I. I look at every email. I've. Only now. I've only. And I mean only just now, as in end of February 2025. I've given her full autonomy. And I don't look over every single email that goes out except for new launches. That's when I want to look over every single thing because I just want to make sure that it sounds really good. It's our voice that the messaging is like absolutely right and tight. But yeah, I mean, I. Nish and I have both been very much in the weeds for everything and, you know, still are.

And what. What year is this right now for you guys? Year five. Okay, so I think you just concluded your like, like you were at three and a half. So have you ever brought money into the company?

Yeah. So we raised a very small round year two of the business.

What was a small round for year two?

Two million.

Okay, two.

Two and a half, I want to say altogether. And we've just done that and a small round to follow after that.

And that went to marketing.

That went towards. It was. So we were growing profitably. We just needed the money to grow faster. So doing things like buying more inventory, of course, like having. For marketing. But that's it. Nish and I own the bulk majority of our business, like a significant bulky. And we were really. We knew that that's what we wanted from the start. And I think actually if I had known what I know today, I don't think we would have ever needed to raise money. It's just that. But I have no regrets. We have incredible investors. Just incredible. They're so supportive, so kind, so helpful. But I just think that we could have done it without the money. It's just that when you're a new founder and you don't have the kind of cash flow background, cash flow management background, rather, of course, you aren't as efficient as you would be now. So if I were to start a business today, Nish and I would not take on any capital ever, I don't think. Because we don't need to. We're Good at managing cash flow now. So we took on, we took on money year two of the business. That was a crazy process. I mean, you know, fundraising as you know, is not easy.

Yeah.

It's not for the week.

No, it's not.

I mean, it's just at all, at all, at all.

I don't recommend it unless you really exactly need to do it or want to grow faster.

Exactly, exactly. And so that was the decision that we made. Again, no regrets, it was the right decision. But anyone who's fundraising, it's not this glamorous process and I think everyone is used to seeing these big headlines and, and I mean, you know, I think it's necessary for a lot of businesses, of course, but I think it, it does take you out of operating the business, is what I will say.

It's a full time job and it's heavy. The, the money that you take on, you, you trust me, you carry it.

Yeah.

On your back.

Yeah, yeah.

The whole journey.

So.

And, and yet you're so, you're so grateful and I'm, I'm so like, are you glad that you did it looking like just to have that under your belt, to understand it?

Yeah, I think it definitely educated me. Yeah. Look, I think, think it's the journey of being a founder.

Right.

And I think we are very kind of well rounded founders because we've seen everything, we operate our business very profitably. So we've kind of gone through that journey. We've gone through the journey of choosing to take on external capital in order to move a little bit faster. I think what our investors did so well is they prepared us and made us grow up. So just having the back end systems totally up, kind of telling us like what the infrastructure should look like. So having investors, it sped up our knowledge, if that makes sense, because it.

Forces you into doing things for your company that you wouldn't have normally done or paid attention to.

Exactly.

And it, yeah, it really trains you on things that you, you could have just like let by the wayside and that you really do need to know.

Totally. And I think also I keep saying we were very lucky with our investors. I think the one thing that Nish and I knew from the start was that we didn't want to take on money from people we didn't actually like and who did.

That's huge.

Huge. So we never settled, we never just took a check because someone was giving us a check. We were really particular and I think that that is something that really paid off. Our cap table is tiny. Absolutely. Tiny and so buttoned up and zipped up because we were so particular about who we brought on as partners.

Yeah.

The one other person on our board outside of Nish and I is a woman that was really important to us and so she really understood the vision and she's our lead investor. So I feel like we were, were we took money on, but we were really intentional about who we took it from. Which is something that I would tell other founders if they are going in to raise money. You are marrying someone. Okay. Like, let's not get it twisted. Make sure you like them. Make sure you do your due diligence. It's not a one sided transaction. It's both. They gotta like you, you gotta like them.

Yeah, I, I remember turning down an investor and I, I did it in a way that they didn't really know they were getting turned down, but, but it was like, oh, the is this one is not sitting right in my gut. This is going to be my worst actual nightmare.

Totally.

It was the best thing I ever did because I can't imagine like what this person would be like when we, you know, because we, we hit some bumps and you need to think about like, yeah, they're, everyone's going to be happy when you're riding high, but what happens if your company hits some bumps? I've been hearing like the crazy stories about like companies that are so high, then going low and them just having this huge awareness of like, holy, like who's really got your back. And I love that you've built so much of. Even what you've said is like you have, you know, these people who feel more like family or that you've really built with or that you really enjoy that you actually like. Because I do think that business is if, if you're built like from what I now really know about you. Like, this is your life. Like, you're a builder, you're a creator. And so you, you have to integrate like your actual life and what you like doing and who you like.

Exactly.

And who you enjoy because it will be what you're doing and thinking about every, every single day.

Every single day. And so neither Nish nor I want to spend our time doing something we don't like. And I think you know very quickly who is it that lights you up? Who do you want to spend time with? Who makes your life easy? Who's there through the good and the bad. And again, like with our investors, again, to give them credit, they have been incredible. Like when Nish and I are the hardest on ourselves when we have such high expectations and we don't meet them, they've always been the ones to be like, guys, it's. It's okay, you know? Yeah, you'll be. You'll be fine. Like, we're not worried. Don't be worried. You know, and so I think having people who are part of your business, who give you that sort of support and kindness and levity and, like, really tough situations is also so great. So, you know, be really picky about who you're bringing onto your business. And I. I mean, both from an investor and a team perspective as well. I have the same philosophy when it comes to our team. Like. Like, we're very close to our team. These are people who would have our backs. We have to be friendly with them. You know, I mean, some of our team is our best friends.

Yeah.

You know, and it's the only way that you can continue to build this year over year in the long run.

You know, I. I totally agree with that. Okay, so here you are. We're year five.

Yes.

We're thriving. Like, it's so much fun to see you out in the world. How many products do you have right now?

Eight, I believe.

What did you start with?

With Bloat and Calm.

The two.

The two. Bloat and Calm.

When did more products start coming in? Was that year two or three or three years.

So we didn't release anything new in year two. Year three, we released Sleep, I believe. And then since then, we've been adding more and more. So this year we have all together, we have two more coming, and we've already launched one. Last year we launched four, and I think the year before it was just the one, so. And the.

The reasoning behind launching four, what was that? You just.

We just had products ready to go, essentially. And product development takes a long time.

Yeah, totally.

A long, long, long time. And sometimes two things are being developed around the same time, and so they're both ready to go. For example, our second year of business, we launched zero because it took so long for us to perfect the product.

Totally.

And so it just depends on kind of where we're at in our product dev journey. And so we did four because four were ready. This year three. I think four was just a lot for us. Our team size. We were really overwhelmed, so we decided to kind of pare it back to three and be really. I mean, we go all out for our launches. Like, I mean, you know, we're really intentional about what we launch, and so we want to give it Due attention. And so doing four was just. I mean, we were tired. Yeah.

You're doing something, you're planning something every day doing something at the same time.

Totally. So we decided to pair it back to three.

Okay. You. I feel like you've been on the road a lot right now. Have you been all over?

I mean, it's funny. It feels so. In 2023, we were away every two weeks. And by the end of 2023, I was like, I am so done with this. No more. I'm just gonna say no to way more. And so that's what I did last year. It was the same thing, but still. Yeah, we are traveling a lot. It's definitely, you know, at least once every five to six weeks, which, I mean, that's a lot. It's less than 4.

Yeah. Because it takes you out.

Yeah.

Takes you out. A little bit of your rhythm and what you're doing.

Exactly. And now we're, of course, like, way more picky about what we are saying yes to and no to. And sometimes if it's just one of us who can get the job done, then the other one stays home. As an example, initially is in Austin right now for work. He went for three days. I'm at home. Last year, I went to Paris for three days and finished. Stayed home. So we pick and choose. Yeah.

That's the best part about being a team. My husband and I do some work.

Together, and I'm just.

We're like, divide and conquer. And we high five. And he travels and. Yeah, he's traveling right now for. For work.

Yeah.

And I'm back. Well, I'm sort of back here. I'm in Newport beach, but I'm up here.

Yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of come back.

I'm kind of back here. Okay, so what would you go back and do differently? Like, what's something that's blaringly clear that you would do different?

Friendly. I would definitely learn cash flow management much sooner than we did again. I think we could have been way more efficient. That's number one. Number two is, I think, what we've started to do with marketing and we started to do this year. Three of the business was essentially. It wasn't just let me throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at something and not care about the return. Like, we were. We were always tracking, like. Like, if we're doing a partnership, if we are doing a campaign, like, what's the percentage that we're getting increase or whatever it is. So I would start tracking those Metrics sooner than we started. So we started to track from a brand perspective in year three. I think I would have started to do that way earlier.

How were you able to track though, if it's first time things that you're doing, you know, like if they're first time partnerships.

And so honestly, like seeing what we're, I mean, it's something really simple like give people codes and start to see what the, what, like the kind of impact is. You know, at the beginning we weren't even doing codes.

Oh, got it. Okay.

Yeah. So I think that would give us a lot more color into what's going on. So I think now we've made it very, like, trackable. And it's honestly, like, of course, like I, I and I come from a brand background and I know that certain things are just brand value. And it's not that we don't do that, it's just that. Yeah, overall, we need to make sure that as we spend more on marketing, we're getting the business to grow bigger and that the kind of, the numbers all make sense and we're still coming out very profitable. I would also focus on profitability a lot sooner than we did. So we turned the business profitable in. Well, we were profitable for the first year and a half and we raised money like year two. We decided not to be profitable when we switched it after a year. I think we, we would have focused on profitability the whole way through if I were doing it all over again, because I think that that's incredibly important.

Okay, so for a couple years, how long was it that you weren't profitable after that?

A year and a half.

A year and a half after that?

Okay, I would change that. There's no reason to not be.

Prof. How would you have changed it?

I would spend it. It's just a matter of what you're spending versus what you're getting back. And I would just pare down spend and kind of switch over into profitability sooner. I mean, look, I think a lot has changed in the landscape. Right. Because when we raised money, it was a different time. And it's funny because it was only three years ago, but it was a different time.

It was totally different.

So back then, profitability was not seen as an important growth at all costs. Exactly, exactly. So that has shifted. So I can't say that I would change things that much because I feel like we were in the times. It's just that times have changed and we've adapted thankfully very quickly. And being profitable gives you a lot of Power. And so I think what I would encourage people to do if they're starting a business right now is never let that slip because you hold power when you have money. So, you know, like, do not. Do not let that slip. Yeah, I would just focus on profitability, like, quickly. As quickly as you possibly can, from the start, if possible. And, yeah, those are probably the things that I would, you know, do differently.

Yeah. What do you think for the future of marketing brands, Marketing your company? Where do you think that's going? Like, are you gonna really look at. Are you going, okay, we need to double down on Tick Tock Shop. We need to. What are you. What are you thinking? Partnerships, all the things.

I mean, for sure. Tech talk shop. I really do think it's the future. I think they're competing with Amazon, so you better get on board. And I think adapting your strategy to make it fit Tick Tock Shop while still staying true to your brand. So it's the juggling act and kind of figuring out your footing. So that's number one. I think consumers will continue to be a bigger and bigger part of people's marketing, or they should be a bigger and bigger part of their marketing strategy. I don't think that nowadays you can get away with spending millions on just Influencer and just ignoring your consumer. So I think brands just need to continue to pay attention to the consumer and dedicating a portion of their marketing dollars. I think it should be a split.

To, like, giving back or like gifting them. Surprising.

Yeah, gifting them.

Offering them.

Yeah, gifting. Surprising. Having community events. Having PR for community. Whatever way you can involve your community. So for us, anytime we launch something, we always have an initiative for influencers and then we have an initiative for consumers. That's just how it goes. We will never do one or the other. It's always both. And last year, we actually got into the cadence of doing community events every six weeks, which was. It's a lot. It's a lot to take on. Thankfully, we do have our head of events, who's incredible. And, like, we have a good, robust team there. But having some sort of a cadence, whether it's like every quarter. I was actually talking to one of my friends, she's the founder of say, and I think they've done a fantastic job with community. And she was saying that the best way to build community is put yourself in the consumer's shoes. And so I have to quote her because I think it's really smart advice. So what she was saying was that, oh, you know, we were internally thinking, oh, I wish there was a run club. And they were like, well, why don't we do that? And so I think, think that is a really good idea of thinking through. Okay, like, what can you do for your community? So just, okay, if you want to do something, then do it, but include your community.

Yeah.

You know, so it's things like that. And it doesn't have to be splashy or expensive. I mean, we've done walks with our community. It's just ways for you to interact with them, you know, surprise and delight them. Like, we'll do walks, give them products afterwards, or, you know, have coffee with them and give them products afterwards. I mean, mean, we've had so many. Thankfully, like our house is set up so we have events within our house in our backyard. A lot of our launches that we've done with our community. It's like we invite them over. So when we launched Magnesium last year, I did one dinner for a bunch of like founders friends, like friends of the brands. Kind of like the influencer tastemaker route.

Yeah.

And then that same week we had a movie night where we had like a projector in our backyard and it was like sleepover themed.

Yeah.

And we had our community come.

And you just like, is that you sent that out to your email list and just had like community, but strangers.

Yeah, it's all strangers. So it's like we picked our like top tier customers. Essentially. We have a loyalty program as well. So first dibs for an event always goes to our top tier customers.

Yeah. And are they from LA or do they. I mean, people fly in for it?

Well, we've had in the past actually people fly in or just be here around the same time. But I mean, we try to do events in different cities as well. Like two years ago we did it in Toronto and we did like at Othership, which is a place where you do contrast therapy. So sauna and cold plunge. And we did a community event there. So wherever Nish and I go, if we have time, we always try to integrate a community event. And.

Yeah, okay. I love that you've been doing that. I'm just like thinking of smaller brands. Like if you throw a community event and you're like, nobody lives here, who's my customer?

Fair. Fair. I mean, I mean you have to be look at your email list, see where your customers are and if you have even like three or four. Again, it doesn't have to be big or fancy.

Could be a meetup, could be a meetup, guys.

Then you change the name a little.

Tiny meetup and you meet for coffee.

Honestly? Yeah, we've done, we've done in the past a farmer's market walk where five people showed up because our brand was much smaller. And that's okay because it's just a way. I mean, how lucky are you? You get to speak to the people who buy your product. You're getting real time feedback.

Totally.

I take advantage of the three people that show up. You know, it's just like you're one on one time with them. It's like there's no a bigger blessing.

I love that. Oh my gosh. This has been such a, like, wealth of knowledge. I'm so grateful for you. I need like two more hours to really satisfy my questions. Maybe more. But what do you want to leave everyone one with?

I think I would like to encourage people to realize that people who are successful, they're not born with an innate specialness to them. I think think if you set your mind to something, you can do it. And it's not that it's for a special segment of people. I think anyone has the power, really anyone has the power to do whatever they put their mind to. And so if you have an idea like we discussed and it's kind of poking at you, go explore it. You know, you don't have to put your life savings into it. See how you can start it in like the smallest scale possible and just do it. Because life's too short to kind of wonder what could have been.

Mm. So good. Well, I am so fucking inspired. Like, I just feel like I could run through a wall. Truly, this is gonna be the topic of our conversation tonight, so it's gonna be so great. Where can we find you? Follow you Array all the things. I will also link that up at the show notes below you guys.

But so array is array.com and array on all social media platforms. You can find me at CIF Hider on all social media platforms. And my podcast is the dream bigger podcast cast.

Amazing. Well, I'm so grateful for you. Thank you for coming on today. This has been a full circle moment for me and you guys make sure you go follow her and also go click the link to go shop Array because the brand is absolutely stunning and it's amazing.

I've had it.

It's incredible. And until next time, everyone earn your happy bye.

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