How to Show Up for YOU, Your Family, & Business When Balance Feels Impossible with Loretta Soffe

Why do we feel so much pressure to feel like our life is balanced? Like, I get that question all the time, too. Like, how do you balance it all? How do you balance. I'm like, oh, my God, I don't.

You can live a life that's just uniquely yours. It doesn't have to be the one you see on Instagram. It doesn't have to be the one your mom imposes on you. Your friends look like they have. Everyone's got their stuff.

There's always going to be a fire burning. There's probably always going to be someone who's thinking something about me or, why didn't you return that text or that email? And now I'm like, oh, my God. I don't have to answer all the messages. I don't have to answer all the emails.

It's like, freedom.

Loretta, welcome to the earn your happy podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me. I've been looking so forward to this.

Oh, I'm so excited for you because you just released your book, which balance is bullshit. We love this. We love this title. And I found you. I actually found you on Instagram. I was trying to figure out what real it was. I'm not sure. I think it was something posted about a family vacation. And I know which one. Okay. I immediately was like, oh, I love the way that this family thinks and how this woman thinks. And then I did a little. Just a little bit of scrolling. Scrolling. And you do such a good job on your Instagram of kind of talking about your core values and talking about the way you lead your family and what that looks like for you. And I was like, okay, this couple. Because it was like you and your husband and your kids. Because my husband and I still. Yes, I'm older, but we're still gonna have kids. I'm always looking for great examples of people who are not only great examples in life, but also who have, like, really still talk about career and ambition. And so right away I was like, oh, I love this, because it looks like they somehow have been able to figure it out and manage it all. And then when your book came out, I was like, okay, let's have you come on the podcast and let's have a chat about it. So what I love to ask all authors before we even get started, is what is a way that this book has fundamentally changed who you are after you've written it?

Gosh, it's been such a cathartic process to go back and really identify and think about what Made me who I am, what powered me, inspired me, fueled me. And honestly, it was a journey way back to when I was a little girl. I'm the youngest of five Irish immigrant parents. We started with nothing. My parents moved to Mercer island, where my husband and I live now with four suitcases, four kids, me on the way to a country they'd never been to. And my dad was just took a leap of faith to find the American dream. And so I think back to those really, really early years where I was nurtured as the baby and I was able to witness. And only in retrospect do I really see and appreciate the sacrifice, the grit, the hard work, the discipline, and the faith that really created a unity in our family of seven. Then that I think, subconsciously, I kind of carried through life and friendships and then very consciously, with our family. And, you know, people say they might ask, like, gosh, you guys have so much fun together. How is it that you guys all want to be together? Your kids travel on spring break as college students together. And my answer is, that's not by accident. We really, by design and with intention, spent a ton of time together to create that bond and create that kind of family foundation. A friend of mine, actually from Newport beach, said to me, and her kids are much younger, long ago. And she said to me something I never forgot, which was, the more time you spend with your kids, the more time you want to spend with your kids. And it's so true. You spend time with them, they get the positive attention they get, the values permeate. They get community through extended family. And then before you know it, they all want to be together. They want to be with us. And that's probably what you saw in that Instagram reel, is there's no people we'd all rather be with than the five of us. So when we vacation, we have a blast, and we can't wait. So I think that going through this process has kind of really illuminated for me those crystal clear values that were established when I was really young that I probably took for granted. Mm.

Okay, we're gonna get into your story, but I feel like I have to. I have to dig into that a little bit, because so many people have kids, and their kids don't want to hang out with them. How on earth did you raise what appears to be great kids that also want to hang out with you? I've heard different things, like, you can't be your kids friends, but clearly your kids want to hang out with you. What did that quote unquote balance. Yeah, look like of raising kids with the core values that you wanted, but also somehow having children that actually want to hang out with you and vacation with you. Because truly, you guys, if you go and look at their life, like, it appears your children really want to hang out with you guys.

And they do a lot. Actually. Sam and I are here together finally. We literally have said over the last few days and weeks, we ran a hostel this summer. We had 12 house guests, all our kids, friends and our kids, and. And it was the best, most fun summer we've ever had. But we're also exhausted, you're tired, and we're kind of like, oh, we have to come to Laguna to like, literally get away and be by ourselves. I think there's a couple answers to that. I had the vantage point of being the youngest, and so my older sisters all had kids, and I was able to watch and observe how they parented and how they created the family unit. And I think if you're astute, observing anything, whether it's a boss, a business, a competitor, an athlete, a published author, you can kind of learn what to do and what not to do and then create your own method of doing what you want to do. So I'd say first I had this viewpoint of I like that I don't want to do that. This works that doesn't seem really like it relates to a me and us. So I kind of took a lot of notes. And then I think we style flexed a lot. The kids are all different. Sam being home with them, I'd say, is a huge factor in why and how our kids are who they are. And what's really great is in my book, Sam wrote a chapter from his perspective. And it was really kind of the social, emotional, psychological perspective of a guy 25 years ago staying home with little kids, which is fascinating, and I think it gives you a lens into how important the father figure is in creating a really strong family foundation. But I think even more interesting is that my editor I worked with interviewed each one of the three kids and the chapter title is called Proof of Concept. So it's their vantage point of what it was like to grow up in a role reversed household, what it was like to have a mom that had a huge executive career and traveled a lot, and then what it was like to have dad at the play date or at preschool or kindergarten. So I think all of those had a lot to do with creating our family foundation. And then we were really intentional about time together. So when other families might have been Running around to birthday parties and basketball tournaments and this, that, and the other. We spent 10 weekends a year in an RV up at the ski mountain. The kids were in ski racing on Saturdays. And then we would do family ski on Sundays. And I would tell you that for five years, times 10 weekends. That was a critical investment in our family. We learned to get along. We learned to play. We learned to do nothing with nothing but like a sled and a ski hill or a, you know, a snow hill. And then finally, we didn't tolerate them not getting along, them not being kind to each other. So if we were making dinner and we could overhear something, we were never helicopters about food. Hmm. A little bit about sleep. We were helicopters about the way they treated each other, the way they talked to each other, and the way they played with each other. We didn't have sleepovers. I didn't want other kids in our house. I didn't want them coming back tired. There's a chapter in our book titled. I think it's. I can't remember the title, but it's around building family culture. And I think I list 10 really intentional things that we did and did all of them add up? Probably not a lot of them did. And the kids kind of reinforced that, that, you know, they spent a lot of time together and then they learned to just love and respect each other. They're super different, but it worked.

We're gonna. I. I have some questions around those chapters in particular, because I thought that was so cool that you not only wrote from your perspective, but you truly got your family's perspective, which proof of concept. What a great title for that. But let's, let's back up. So let's talk about. You had a super high powered career, you raised three kids, and then you flipped the traditional parenting script. So 25 years ago to have your husband staying home, that just like, was not a con. That was not a conversation. I know it's so much more normal now, but even now, it's still. It's still very different still. People are still like, hey, who's watching your kids? Yeah, my husband is watching my kids. So I want to know, tell me a little bit about that story. Like, what was that pivot like when you flipped the script?

You know, it was pretty organic. And it was late in my first pregnancy. I think I was about 30 weeks pregnant. And we hadn't really talked about who was going to stay home with the kids. Like I said, I'm the youngest. So I had two of my sisters, one hired A full time nanny because she also had a corporate career. Another was a nurse, and she put her kids either in daycare or part daycare, part nanny. Sam's sister was a pilot and she chose a daycare, preschool kind of co op situation over staying home or in addition to staying home. So I had all three of these versions and I was like, huh, I loved my job. I was doing really well. Sam was a trial attorney. He was doing really well. And it was literally 30 weeks taking a walk in our neighborhood. And I remember thinking, wait, okay, we're talking about what color to paint this little room. We're picking out bedding, we're having baby showers, but we don't know what we're doing when he or she is born. And we didn't find out with any of the kids, the gender. So we just stopped. And literally I can kind of almost visualize where we were in our neighborhood, which is where we still live. And I remember just saying, what are we gonna do? And he was like, well, I don't know. What do you think? Said, well, I know I get four months off. He goes, well, I get a little bit of time off too. Let's at least cross over. And then he said, you're doing super well in your job and you work for a big company. And I kind of feel like the upward mobility of that from a. From a family financial perspective is probably greater than mine. He worked for the government as a prosecuting attorney. So at that time we both just kind of said, huh, okay, well, that's a consideration. And then he just said, you know what? I know there's people at the prosecutor's office that have taken a job share, and they do two days and someone else does three days. Why don't I see if I can do that? I'll stay home for three days and I'll share with someone that'll do two. I literally, Lori, I stopped in my tracks and I was like, you would do that? And he was like, well, of course we had both agreed that neither of us wanted a nanny raising our kids. And we really didn't like the idea of like doing a drop off pickup at a daycare. And that was the moment. I think that I already loved my husband enough. And as much as you think you can, but the fact that he was willing to and, and took initiative to say, I'll stay home, I'll do it. I'll pause my career for you because I support you and your career and for the love of our family, I was like, wow. Because Nobody was doing it back then, ironically. So many people he would meet or we would meet would be like, oh, God, I do that in a second. That sounds so awesome. Nobody did it.

No.

They were like, oh, that sounds great for, like, a Tuesday when it's sunny and I could, like, maybe time a nap with tennis, which he learned how to do. Let's be honest. He. He actually really. He was so good at that job. I mean. I mean, the Mr. Mom job. Yeah. Way better, I think, than I would have been. Way better. So really, that's how it started. And he said, I'll do this for one year. It ended up being 12 years. Wow, 12 years. And after about three or four years, which was three kids, the government, the prosecutor's office said, oh, gosh, you've been doing this for, you know, three or four years. You either need to come back full time or no time. And we kind of looked at each other, and it was like, at this point, I had been leapfrogging in my career, and we just decided, okay, no time. And he went full time. He went through two or three minivans. He had that so dialed. He had a recipe book. He was learning how to cook. He was timing naps with, literally, tennis matches.

Wow.

He had his diaper bag. I mean, he literally was the only dick at the zoo. He really just did it, and he did it with joy and selflessness. He's, like, the most unselfish guy you'll ever meet. And that was, like, the truest example. It kind of can bring me to tears talking about it.

What did that look like in some of your. Like, did you get any pushback from friends? Did people say things to him all the time, like, how. What did that look like? And how did he deal with that?

Two things I remember, like, at the park, I think he either got looked at or called a pedophile. When he was at the park with all the kids playing, we had another friend who. It's kind of. We can laugh at it now, but when he went over for the play date with the mom and the cute young boy who was probably in preschool, the dad sent his assistant over to double check that everything was totally fine. Yeah, I think that the mommy mafia loved him. There's nothing not to love about him. And in preschools in small communities, there definitely is a mommy mafia, but. But he just kind of, in his own way, made friends with the right people, and they all took him in. So he kind of got the inside scoop on what to do on certain days, how to you know, what cupcakes to bring, what color, what this, what that I would say. For me, it was hard on me because I would show up in the classroom, you know, for cookie decorating on Halloween or, you know, to be the volunteer mom on an art project or for book bridges, reading books. And I was the one that kind of was looked at like, ah, you made time for it today. I distinctly remember having to make sure when I left the house that day that I kind of like wore an outfit that would be appropriate in the office and in the boardroom. But I could also show up in the classroom or on the playing field. But you know what? I think there's always going to be people in life that are going to judge you for whatever it is you're doing, whether you're doing it well or doing it poorly. And as Mel Robbins would say, let them, let them judge you. If you are comfortable in your core and if you know, you're living with intention, love, purpose and doing your best, which we're all trying to do, then that's all you need to do. That's all you need to know.

I have a couple friends right now who the women are the breadwinners and they're out working and the husbands are the stay at home dads. And they were actually just got together with one of them and she was talking about how she's like, it's actually really intense because when I go in to like go do a few things, bring the cookies, whatever it is, she's like, it is like a whole other world in a culture with these different moms. And it has me thinking about how, number one, that's so challenging for the woman. But number two, it's kind of interesting because the male almost doesn't have to partake in that kind of whatever is going on with what you were calling the mommy mafia. Because I heard it can be super intense around like mother judgment. Well, you have to be who you have to be. Like, how did your husband, did your husband ever kind of bring you in on what was going on with all of, all of that?

He really didn't. And I think that we can, we kind of can stand to learn a lot from men in that way that they just are kind of unflappable. Yes. They don't let it bother them.

It's my husband.

Yeah.

You're like, chloe, this is so dumb.

Yeah, exactly. And Tim would say, he's like, I'm so happy to not be invited to something. I mean, the funniest things are like, when it's, you know, Susie Q's birthday and the mom comes in with the most elaborately decorated cookies and confetti and streamers and this and that, Sam would literally go to the local grocery store and get the clamshell of powdered donuts and I swear to God, throw them at the kids. And he would be like, woo, done. Yeah, done. I mean, his story, his chapter in my book is really hilarious and really just paints the picture of what it was like. And the best part is in the appendix he has like three or four hilarious. Really? I mean, one of them kind of takes me down, but I'm like, it's real. Let's just, let's give it, let's give it all.

Let's put it in there.

Yeah, let's put it in there. But he really shares just some hilarious stories of what it was like. And I think if women, if moms could maybe just take a, just an ounce of that and take it a little less seriously and probably be a lot more inclusive and kind, I think the whole experience would be better.

If he was sitting here right now, which he's out in the living room, we could bring him in. Yeah, but what would you, what would you say that he would say if he could just kind of summarize his experience of how. I mean, that's a long journey to summarize. But what do you think he would say if I asked him, like, what was that like for you?

I think he would say it was the best decision he ever made.

Well, how come?

Because I think he knows. He knows now because of how the kids have developed, who they are and what they've said, that he had a tremendous impact not just on them and on me, but our whole family.

How would you guys, when, you know, all couples talk, Chris and I have a way of like catching up and deflating and you know, helping each other deal with different, different stresses. All the things we like to go on a walk and check in. What it, what did your check in system look like? How would you support him with the stress and of, of family life and how would he support you with the stress of your career?

We didn't have time to have a check in process then. We actually do now. But then it was messy in the beginning, I gotta be honest. It was. I would drive across the bridge from downtown Seattle, Nordstrom headquarters home. He probably would have just picked up the house, got the dinner ready, poured himself a glass of wine and that stuff can unravel with three little kids in minutes. And I would walk in sometimes and be like, oh, my God, it's a disaster in here. Oh, no. I learned. I really learned to not pass judgment. I really learned to give him the benefit of the doubt. And we both did that. We were both giving our best at whatever we did whenever we did it. And I think that was the biggest thing. So, you know, whether he made a dinner nobody liked and the house was messy, he tried his best. And I think it was that switch for me and for both of us, or if I came back kind of preoccupied or anxious or stressed, he would recognize that I wasn't being a. I was kind of still coping with the pressure that was imparted on me at 4:55 when I was trying to walk out the door. So I think for us then, our. Our method of coping was to trust each other, to value the team. We were a team building this tribe, and we were both doing the best we could at the jobs that we signed up for, and we gave each other the benefit of the doubt. And then we tried to always focus on, but not obsess on the division of labor. I think so many couples can get derailed by who made the money, who spent the money, who bought the groceries, who cleaned the bathroom, who made the mess, who did the laundry, who didn't, who did the last pickup, who did the schooling. We got rid of all that and we just said, you know what? There's not going to be a division of labor. We're just going to do what needs to get done. We're going to share the load. And still to this day, he. He goes to the grocery store more than I do. He. Every now and then, it's so funny. Declan featured him folding a load of laundry on her Instagram. And I was like, it's literally the first load of laundry all summer. But that's okay because he does the other stuff. So I think it's that you gotta zoom out in life as a leader, in business and in marriage. Zoom out and go, you know what? We're all doing our best every day with every. Everything that needs to get done, we're all doing our best. And that. So that was our method of check in. And it. But it took us a bit to get to that.

Was there a moment of breakdown or was it just like a realization you both had? Was it a conversation or did you kind of just figure it out?

I think we just figured it out. I think we just figured it out. And it was probably, you know, a couple crabby nights. That doesn't Work that's not working. There's a chapter in the book where he is really honest and, and he writes it. I think it's called the Day I Learned I Didn't do Enough. It's really damning to me. But that was like, I didn't understand until I think that maybe he wrote that in his journal and maybe gave me a note and I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I think that's. We all have to just be humble enough to go, you know what? I had no idea.

Can you tell us about that story?

I think it was that I came home and probably ripped him a new one for the messy house, the shitty dinner, or the load of laundry that hadn't been transferred. I'm kind of a machine about getting stuff done. And I think that he was like, you actually don't even know. You walk out at 7:30, you go get to get a latte and sit in an office. And I get, you have a ton of pressure. But I'm sitting here, I'm bagging up fishy crackers, I'm doing drop off pickup, I'm changing diapers, I'm running homework up, I'm trying to find a uniform, I'm volunteering in the basketball gym. Boom, boom, boom, boom. So I think that night he, he's gotten to be a way better communicator. But I think that night, rather than walk me through it, he just wrote it in his journal. And then I think maybe just almost like wrote me a letter. And it's in there and it's basically, you want to know what I did today? And he, Doc, I mean, I haven't read it in a while.

Yeah.

But I think that's actually, I think it's important for all of us to just go, you know what? Everybody's busy. When you think someone's let you down, maybe step back and go, you know what? They probably had a lot going on. Or, you know, if you think that they didn't get that, well, maybe they weren't actually capable of that that day. So I think that that was the lesson. It was like, wow, we are both working really hard for this team called the Chapin family. And certain days I'm gonna do more, he's gonna do more, and at the end of it, we're just gonna support each other.

I love that. It's crazy how life will just, it will literally throw things at you sometimes. Or like having those letters, like just there's, there are those moments of clarity where you're like, okay, hey, things can work differently than we want them to. I totally get you. Like, I am such a. Let's get this done. Why isn't it done in this way? And the reason I've been married 20 years is only because I've had the realization of everybody has a different way to do it, and that's okay. And sometimes that's a much better way than, than my way.

Well, and part of this can transfer into leadership in a business where when you are high capacity and highly capable, it's way quicker just to do it yourself.

Yeah.

But the better thing and the development for the people around you that you're supporting is to teach them and show them. And I had a situation with a woman that worked for me and she had a big job, probably $200 million job, and she would come to me with her orders for the season and she had it all kind of dialed in from her perspective. She had edited styles, brands, colors, stores, and she would come to me and I was like, you know what, Robin? Nope, what about this, this and this? And I would ask her three questions. She couldn't answer it. We could. I could have answered it right there and had three less meetings, but instead I chose to send her away with those three questions. She had to find the answers. She'd come back with the perfectly coded spreadsheets again with all the documentation, and I'd ask her three new questions. And she would scratch her head and she didn't have the answers to those. She'd go away again. Five days later, she'd come back again and I would probably ask two or three more questions, which this time she was prepared for and she could answer. And this woman went from being one of my least performing divisionals to actually my award winning best performer within about a year. And I had so much pride in helping her develop her thought process, her strategic thinking, and just her ability to kind of problem solve and think the whole thing through. It would have been so easy for me to just do it or coach her or say, you know what, how about just XYZ right there, right then? And it's the ability to kind of zoom out, be patient, be present with the people in front of you and willing to kind of slow down, which that was not in my nature in my early days, probably as a wife, a mother and a leader. And now I just see so much value in the slowing down, thinking it through, giving people the benefit of the doubt and then teaching where it's applicable so that they can develop and then they're on their own.

Would you ever be teaching something in leadership at work and apply it at.

Home a hundred percent?

All the time. Tell me about some of the things you really feel were so valuable that you learned in leadership that you also used at home.

Well, just recently. So our son just graduated from college, and he is just today moving back down to Austin and in the job search. And we sat probably a few weeks ago, and we talked about the internship. He just ended. And I could easily have probably said, let's just rewrite your resume. Let's just rewrite a cover letter. Let's create a spreadsheet. And I purposely didn't bring my laptop into our sunroom. And we just sat there and just had a conversation. Hank, what do you think you're really good at? And I go, tell me about the job you had as the equipment manager for the lacrosse team at ut. He goes, okay. And I go, so what are the most. What are the things you're most proud of? I go, so wait, how many units did you sell? How much money did you generate for the team? Have you included those things? So rather than tell him you need to include that, you should write down these metrics. You should talk about, you know, the cost and retail and profit margin of all that product. I just asked him the questions and had the conversation. So then he was the narrator, and he was the author. I talked about that on a LinkedIn post recently. And then we even said, like, what are your strengths? Like, actually, I think the question was, how would your best friends from home and your best friends at UT describe you? What do they think you're really good at? What would your professor say? And I go, wait, didn't one of your professors write you a really great recommendation letter? So it was really. I think it's. My method has always been the Socratic method of teaching, asking a lot of questions. So I try and do that with the kids and get them to give me or give themselves the answers, rather than me dictating to them. Because actually, you know what it does? It inspires confidence.

Yeah.

And then they actually also own the answer. And then when they internalize it, when they're in an interview, it's their answer, not mine.

You're teaching them how to think like, you're teaching them how to ask better questions for themselves. And it's one thing to just. We all think we want the answers, but then it's like, okay, if there's not people around, which they're not going to be.

Yeah.

You know, you're not going to be at college with your son. He now has a way of problem solving. And also, like when you figure out problems, we, we both know this now at this point in our lives, when you figure out those answers, you. We all have a way of approaching something that's going to work so much better for us.

Yes.

If we figure it out ourselves.

Yeah, that was, that was kind of my motto as soon as I assumed leadership roles at Nordstrom, was whether I was a buyer going to visit stores or a merchandise manager supporting buyers or an EVP supporting the company. My motto is always, I want to teach them to think like I think and see like I see. Because in retail, especially if you have physical stores, you have to be able to scan a store instantly and see the strengths, the opportunities, the dust, the out of sight, the out of stocks. And so I think even with a family and with kids, it's. And I think my mom role modeled this for me. It's. I want them to see me embracing everybody I meet. I want them to see me thanking the coach on the pool deck yesterday. I want them to see me greeting the yoga teacher. My mom modeled that for me. So that's just like how it comes down to, like, the brass tacks of living daily. Like sometimes at restaurants when we were little, they'd be like, you know her, not at all. But I want to make her feel so seen and so heard that. Why not? Yeah, but they did that often with us.

So you talk about how balance is like the title of your book, and you talk more about balance not existing, but it's more about alignment and things in your life. Can you tell me about that?

Yeah, I. I'm such a believer that I always kind of have been that that work life, balance concept was always bullshit. It was much later, right before I wrote this book, that I really kind of just like feel like I got on a soapbox to really say that. And it's because there's no way to give all the things in your life equanimity at any one time. And if you do, I'm sorry, they're all going to be mediocre. So if you play halfway in order to work halfway, in order to sleep halfway, you're not going to have any fun, you're not going to be very successful, and you're not going to be well rested. So I'm such a believer in going all in and knowing that you're going to pull back out. So it could have been for me when my kids were little and I would have three or four weeks straight of fashion week travel, whether it was right now September or February. But I would get ready for two weeks shopping, packing, getting organized, and then I was gone, essentially, for three straight weeks.

Wow.

New York, London, and Paris. Three straight weeks. The kids were little enough where they didn't really know, but Sam knew that basically, I was no help at all. For four straight weeks. We knew that that wasn't balance. But guess what? After I'd get back from Paris, I think was the third week, I would take the four or five days off, disable phone, put it in a glove, do whatever I needed to do, and be completely engaged and on duty with the kids. So it was like all or nothing. All or nothing. And that, I think, is. That's when I realized, like, whoa, there's nothing about this, like, equal footing. And if people are trying to strike, that, no way possible. So I think as I've. As I've progressed in life, I've just realized that if you want to do all of these things, you're going to have to be ready to go all in and know it up front. Surround yourself with people that are gonna help you get yourself mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually prepared, and then, guess what? Dip out and then do that. But to do it all and try and keep all these plates spinning, there's no possible way. The moment of clarity for me was when I got fired. And I didn't realize until I walked out of the office that day and came home and I took a breath and I looked out our window, and I was like, oh, my God. I actually can finally, for the first time since having three little kids, prioritize being a wife and a mom. Because I was trying to juggle it all. And I think I did a good job juggling it, but it's not sustainable. It was not sustainable. It was actually, in retrospect, the best thing that ever happened so that I could actually let go of the myth of trying to balance it all.

Okay, so what was the plan after getting fired? Like, what did that feel like? Was your husband worried? Were you worried? What was the game plan? Did we have one?

We didn't. And to be honest, there was so much pressure on me for the few months leading up to that event, let's call it. But I didn't ever expect that I was going to get fired. I kind of. There was times when I was like, sam, I just don't know if I can do this. The pressure was so intense. And with three little kids, I was just like, oh, I really didn't think it was sustainable. So were we worried when it happened? Of course. I was the breadwinner. I was making a lot of money.

How old were the kids at this point?

Um, this was in 2012. They were seven. They were five, seven and nine.

Okay, so like, young, is that about right?

Yeah, five, seven and nine. Young. Sam hadn't worked in essentially nine years. I was the breadwinner. Not only was I making a big salary, I was making big bonuses. And Nordstrom, up until kind of that year, prior year, was doing very well as an enterprise, as a total company, and as an executive, there was a lot of benefit to that too. So, yes, we were worried. Although we've always managed to live below our means and be pretty frugal about planning and living. So it wasn't like we were going to have to sell the house, scale back, quit golf clubs and try. Like, we didn't live that way. Ironically, though, that was the day that these two, the builder and the contractor, had come over to demolish our kitchen. So we were just undertaking a massive kitchen remodel that was slightly unnecessary. So when I called Sam after this happened, you know, with just like the choked voice, and he stayed really calm, the builders were like, should we put it back together? Like, no, it's okay. I think I'll just be a little bit more involved now. So he's always been so supportive, calm. I'm an eternal optimist. So I was kind of like, okay, well, I didn't over identify with my job. I literally can finally prioritize being a mom and a wife and we're all gonna be fine. I'm such a believer in when these unexpected, terrible things happen, you really just have to trust in the universe that there must be a different plan in place. So as devastating and terrible and shocking as it was, it really was the best thing that ever happened.

So what ended up happening from there?

So I came home and I went to yoga.

Okay.

I think I. My phone. Actually, within a couple of days, my phone rang off the hook with all of the people on the brand side. Presidents, owners, designers, CEOs, a lot of them expressing, like, how sorry and sad they were that I was leaving. But many of which were like, can you help us? So within a matter of weeks, I started a consulting business. Literally sitting on the bedroom floor with an iPad, a bad ponytail and sweats. And I kind of just figured it out. Yeah, I didn't know what to do. I named it Loretta Soft Consulting, because why not? I was the only Loretta that anyone knew in fashion. So I thought, well, I better use my name. I worked with a local friend and, and created a brand toolkit, image website, business cards, note cards. I negotiated. This is a great story. I had no idea how to negotiate a contract. We went to Cabo in February, so about three or four weeks after, I got fired. Cause the kids had a break from school. And I'm like, well, why not?

Why not?

I'm not in Fashion Week. Let's go to Cabo. And there's a picture I have on my phone still where I'm sitting in the sand with the vendors walking past me. I'm on the phone and I negotiated my biggest, best, and first contract sitting there. I just thought, you know what? I'm just going to put a number out there. I'm going to put a number in a time frame because I think that's what I'm worth. And they paid me. And literally to this day, it's my biggest, best and first contract ever.

Wow.

So that's really how it just started. So I worked for a number of brands. I helped them, I kind of took them behind the curtain. There's a mystery in dealing with the Nordstrom buyers, merchants, financial planners in how to really optimize that relationship. And so without giving any secrets away, I just kind of took them behind the curtain and helped them be strategic about working with Nordstrom from an assortment standpoint, an inventory standpoint, a pricing standpoint, a partnership standpoint standpoint, so that they could actually optimize their business and so would Nordstrom. That was kind of my claim to fame, was I really felt like I was the bridge between what we needed at retail for our customers and what the brands could provide so that we could both win. And we built I with my team. So many businesses from 0 to 30, 50, $100 million. So I think that is why my phone rang off the hook. Because a lot of these people were like, I want you now to help us do what you were doing when you were in that seat and you're no longer in that seat. And then I would say the other part of how that looked is when I was going through a massive transformation when I was leading women's and I had to turn around a $1.5 billion business that was tanking for 10 straight years. I enlisted the help of Boston Consulting Group. So I hired this super robust group of consultants to help me figure out what we were gonna do with this huge business that was a legacy for Nordstrom. But the weakest performing side of the Nordstrom business, the biggest and the weakest. And now I was in charge and I had three little kids and I was like, oh my God, what am I gonna do?

Yeah.

So. So I enlisted the help of the Boston Consulting Group team. And then when I left, they called me and said, will you come on our team? So that was such a blessing. I joined as a senior advisor. I think they called me, which is funny, the North American retail expert for Boston Consulting Group. And I literally traveled the world with these guys. I went to India, Indonesia, Australia, China, Finland, Europe. As kind of the practical expert at the table. I like to call myself the BS Detector because consultants love to create really beautiful decks, but they've actually never had the job. So the client was the retailer. The consultants were all the Harvard educated super smarties. And then I was the one that actually had the job that could bridge the gap. So really that's how it all. That's how, that's how my entrepreneurship kind of Loretta 2.0 post Nordstrom really evolved.

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Yes.

Which is huge. It's like, you guys, all of these things that we get, these opportunities that are placed in front of us that we say no to typically as women because we feel like we're not prepared for it.

I write about this in my book. I. Every step of my career, honestly, which started by accident for 25 years, from a cashier to the biggest job in the company. I was never ready for any of the jobs. And I would just be like, okay, buckle up. Maybe I need a new blazer. And then I would show up and just figure it out. There's nothing we can't do. And imposter syndrome, I think, is actually good. It means you care, you're scared in a good way. And if, if it's not you, who else is it going to be? So why not you? And you can do it. So, yeah, I was sitting with some of the biggest retail owners at tables in India talking about real estate investing, department stores expanding their product lines with literally some of the wealthiest, biggest real estate retail owners in India. I never done that, but if you just kind of channel your instinct, stay calm and humble, you can do it. So I think I really want to make sure that the women listening feel powerful and don't shy away from stuff that's scary. If it's scary, it's probably worth doing. If it's scary, find some friends, some helpers to support you. And there's always going to be something scary or you're just going to start to get comfortable and then you're not growing.

Do you feel like some of the idea of balance, like, the more you're talking, I'm like, where? Why do we feel so much pressure to feel like our life is balanced? Like, I get that question all the time, too. Like, how do you balance it all? How do you balance. I'm like, oh, my God, I don't.

Yeah. At all.

Do we. Do you feel like that's coming from, like, this fear of other women? Judging us around not being balanced or, like, having a chaotic life or.

Yeah, I think that there's a real misconception that being messy, imperfect, you know, missing things is not okay. And I think that, in fact, on this bookmark that you have in your book, I write about that. Like, you can live a life that's just uniquely yours. It doesn't have to be the one you see on Instagram. It doesn't have to be the one your mom imposes on you. Your friends look like they have. Everyone's got their stuff, and it's just okay to not have it balanced. I mean, if you saw me, in fact, I'll show a cute little reel. If you saw me an hour ago, the outfit I was wearing, the hairdo I had, like, honey, it is not all perfect. It rarely is. It's just sometimes we shine or we try to, but the rest of the time, I think it's just, you gotta live your life. You gotta enjoy it. You've gotta just be messy. Enjoy it. You should have seen my house, my Hostel, the last 10 days. Shit everywhere. Beach towels everywhere, Bath towels everywhere. Kitchen counters, like, ugh. And I like things very tidy. It was so, so out of balance, but it was so fun. And guess what? It's all dialed back in now. So I think anything that's, you know, hard, tiring, it's kind of worth doing, and you'll get back to where it's supposed to be. But trying to maintain this, like, perfection, that's bullshit. And the people that you see on Instagram that are showing that it's bullshit, they probably have a trainer, a hair person, a driver, a chef living with them. We don't. We're just kind of trying to keep it going.

Yeah, I love that my life got exponentially better when I learned that the house could be an absolute disaster sometimes. And when I learned, like, there's always going to be a fire burning, there's probably always going to be someone who's thinking something about me, or, why didn't you return that text? Or that email? And now I'm like, oh, my God. I don't have to answer all the messages. I don't have to answer all the emails. It's actually okay if people don't think super high. If some people.

I love that you talk about highly. Your whole theme around being audacious. I just love that it's like, freedom. It's freedom. I don't know where I got that, because my mom and dad, neither of which were that way, but I've kind of been like, whatever, whatever for a long time.

Have you gotten, you know, I think a lot of people listening, it's like, oh, this would feel really good to do. Okay, I can start seeing where I can let some things go or understand that there's not balance. But did you, did you ever have fear around what your family's thinking or what will, you know, these other moms be thinking? Like, did they say things to you and how did you deal with it?

Yeah, you know. Yeah. And it's. I think that truthfully and probably sadly, sometimes your biggest critics are those people that are closest to you.

For sure.

For sure. I feel like they always are. Yeah, they always are. And then, you know what? I think when you're doing something really great, you really find out who's really in your, in your inner circle. What I've tried to do and channel is you can't please everybody. You're going to be judged by everybody. And if you feel good and comfortable about the decisions you're making, the life you're living, and the decisions and intention that you're living with, that's what matters. So you're going to have family members that are going to be like, oh, you're on another trip, or, ugh, you've got this beautiful house, or, must be so nice. Okay, it's great. I don't even need to go back. And what it took to get on that trip or what it took to get here, the hard work, that's for you, that's for the people that are closest with you. And I think that that takes work to get there. I'm not saying that's easy, that takes work to get there, but I think that's a really important mentality to find and a piece to find within. And honestly, I think it takes every day to remind yourself to have that self talk, to read your mantras, that it's okay to not please everybody. It's okay to not be liked by everybody. It's okay to be judged by people. It's going to happen. But don't change who you are. Still be your bright light, because you're touching so many people. And the ones that aren't being touched are the ones that are kind of snickering or this or that. It's their problem, not yours. I think that's. That's the only way we can kind of deal with it and not let it derail us.

I love that. It's. I mean, I know for me it's just like that realization of, whoa, I'VE spent most of my life trying to make everyone else happy, and no one's trying to make me happy back.

You know what? I know I need to do it. Exactly. I mean, it's, it's, you gotta really. It's. It's that self preservation. You gotta really take care of yourself so that you can take care of the people around you that are right in front of you or that you don't even know. I mean, you're touching millions of people all the time. You've gotta be so strong in your conviction, you cannot let those people take you down.

Yeah, your. Your energy needs to go where people actually, you know, are either using it or it's helping. Exactly. Not the people that you can't help.

Yeah. I mean, I know that you know.

This more than anything. Being a mom, like, energy is so finite that if it's not being returned, you have to figure out what's important. How do you figure out what's most important? And what does that list look like for you now?

Values are pretty clear for me. And I, I think it's writing this book and having conversations like that has crystallized this. I think it was always there, but it's family. 90% of our time, Sam's and mine together is either together or with our kids. And if there's a choice to do one thing or the other and it's with the kids or something else, unless it's really super important and desirable, we're going to almost always err on the side of family time together. For me, I'd. So it's. It's family, it's faith, it's fitness, it's business and entrepreneurship for me. So those are, those are the things. So the having those kind of values clear helps me structure my time. My priorities kind of ladder up to those, my days, the way I manage the calendar. And then I think it probably was when I was pregnant and I kind of started to create boundaries and feel comfortable saying no. But if it doesn't really ladder up to something like that, those values, my friends included, it's a hard pass. And then the way I kind of preserve myself so that I have enough energy to like, kind of live those values truthfully is time in the morning by myself. You know, we kind of laugh in the morning. It's zone one. I don't know. I don't know who gave me that methodology, but Sam's pretty chatty.

Okay.

So he, he'd like to get a cup of coffee and like instantly start chatting. And I'm like, no, I'm in zone one.

Zone one is no talking.

One is no talking. Hank used to be my little buddy and we would call it coffee talk.

Okay.

Because he's kind of a man. A few words. This is my, my middle, my son. And so we would have coffee talk because there was no talk. He would just kind of snuggle up with like a hot cocoa and I could have my coffee for like 30 minutes and the little guy wouldn't peep. So that's for me. Starting my day on my toes requires that like zone one. A little bit of like spirituality. If it's reading like the daily word or I love this prayer channel on Instagram. Just something kind of to remind me about just, I don't know, the bigger picture and gratitude and then just literally like kind of closing my eyes. It could be writing in my five minute journal about what's. What am I grateful for? What's going to set up a great day? An affirmation. It's five minutes. But for me it's a really intentional time of day that I set myself up. And whether I'm not busy at all or I was hyper busy in my Nordstrom days. Five minutes just to kind of remind myself I've got this. I'm grateful. It's going to be good no matter what the outcome is going to. So that's, that's really how I kind of preserve myself at the start of the day. And then really the yoga, the swimming, where I make sure I get my fitness in and I feel good and strong and energetic and then I can run a hostel for 10 weeks of the summer.

Where did your fitness mindset come from? Because you and your husband are so fit.

Thanks.

And you work out on vacations.

We do.

And you know, I feel like that's such a, a foundation for successful people. It really is. I find they move, they're fit, they feel like being fit can help you handle so many other things. I feel like being fit can actually help you feel more balanced.

It can. Well, and I feel like also like for I, I find when I'm working out, I actually unravel problems. Same completely. Like I, I literally, sometimes I'll dive in the pool, I'll have an incredible workout, and I am running into the locker room after to write down the aha moment I had on a flip turn at some moment during practice.

It works it out.

It really does.

It works out of your body.

I think it's so important. Also, I'll get back to the fitness mindset. But to take a pause, like, for me, yoga and swimming, where you absolutely can't have your phone, is really ultimate, because I still think, like, in the weight room or on a walk or on a run, you still have your phone, and. And you can actually still get a little derailed by a text message coming in. Yeah. So knowing I lock it in the locker room for both of those really, I think, heightens the benefit because I'm really away. The fitness mindset. Youngest of five. We grew up across the street from a swimming pool, and from as early as I could walk across the street, I did, and I was jumping in the pool and by myself. So swimming was just part of, like, my upbringing. And then it became a really big part of my life.

Are you an ocean swimmer?

I do love swimming in the ocean. In fact, I packed my cap and goggles and a surf shirt. I know. I don't know if I'll get in, but I prefer the lake. I prefer the lake, but I love. I still love the ocean. I kind of just love water anywhere.

We always see swimmers, like, right out, because we take a walk down to the ocean, you might see me. Okay, I will, like. And we'll just go and be like, what is the mindset that can allow them to do that? I'm like, oh, my God, number one. It must be amazing. They must feel so good every day.

I did it last night, so it was one of our hottest days of the summer. Ironically, last night, and before we went out to dinner, my daughter and I jumped in the lake at home at, like, 5 and probably swam for half an hour. The lake is so warm, but for me, it's just that complete, complete movement. And I really think I might have been a fish before I was anything else. I feel so natural and comfortable. And this last couple days has been such a whirlwind. It was like, what I needed to totally, like, unplug and actually, like, feel inside my body again. So I think that's the feeling when you see people out in the water. It's this. The noise of the water, the feeling of strength in the water and that buoyancy. I just. Yeah, it's. For me, I feel supernatural. So that mindset, I think, you know, being a swimmer and an athlete and a college athlete, I think it's that the mindset of being of discipline, of structure, of doing hard things, of pushing you, pushing yourself, is, I think, what's transcended all the different kind of parts of my life. And I think modeling healthy living and fitness for our Kids, we didn't force them into sports. We always wanted them to play, you know, team sports when they were little, just for the camaraderie, the friendship, the structure. And busy kids get into less trouble than kids that sit at home. And they all wanted to do it. But now the fact that they hank a little less, but the girls are running half marathons and pursuing fitness on their own all the time. I think it's just, it's, it's a way of life that they see and that just they feel better.

I think how you were describing swimming, you know, if anyone was for anyone listening, they understand that that's such like a passion place for you and such an outlet. I think so many people who are struggling with balance and feeling chaos and stress, they don't have something like that.

Yeah.

And I think that we all need to find it.

Yeah.

And we can think that it's selfish to, like, be super into yoga or Pilates or swimming or. Why do you always have to be, you know, in so many relationships? I'm from the Midwest, I hear.

Yeah.

Why do you always have to go to the gym every day? Why do you always have to do this? Because it, it has to be made a priority.

Yeah.

But what happens when we don't have that is you can start to feel resentful of different things and people in your life. And you also are not connected to yourself at all. Like how swimming. You have that time to connect with God, yourself, your ideas.

Right.

Like, think when we don't have that. I think that's when life starts to feel chaotic.

Yeah. I think if, if like you in for me, if I don't feel physically strong.

Yeah.

I'm not as mentally strong. So. Yeah. I think there's just such a connection to that.

I agree. I think we're in physical body. I think our soul is in a physical body to be physical and experience in that way.

Yeah. And I think when you I had my mom as a role model and when she was 60 is when she ran her first marathon.

Wow.

And you know, my parents, Irish immigrants, like, that's crazy. That's so fitness was not a way of life for them at all. But my mom was kind of ahead of her time being this little Irish lady back in the 70s on Mercer Island. But she started running just because I think she wanted to be outside and she liked the idea of challenging herself. And so I had that as a role model early on. And then seeing her run a marathon at age 60, I was like, wow, I, I, I can I can run three miles, six miles, whatever. Yeah. And then, you know what? For our family, it's just really fun to do it together. It just is. It's part of our routine. Whether we're in St. Barts or Europe or even when we would ski. Like, let's go for a walk when we get there. Let's ski on Saturdays. We're not fanatical about it. Like, let's walk to get a pizza and let's walk home. But it's just. It is part of our life, and we just feel better.

You feel better. You just feel better. I know. That's the thing is, eventually you will get to the place where you actually want to do it, because you notice that without doesn't feel good. Yes. And it's not like some. When you land from a plane, you're like, yeah, I can't wait to walk. But you know, you're gonna feel better.

Yeah. And I think you also kind of. I'm looking at your. Your moniker here. That earn your happy. You also have to earn your margaritas, or you really do. Or earn your sitting on the beach and reading. You're gonna be way more satisfied reading your book, sitting on the beach if you've actually gone for a beautiful long walk, than if you just kind of. I don't know that, like, the whole notion of, like, not moving is completely, completely foreign to me. I just don't. It's just not for me.

Yeah. I do think there's a level of joy people are missing out on by.

Yeah. The endorphins, actually. I won't spoil this, but I write a chapter about having postpartum with our third child, Ashley. And one of the most important strategies to, like, get through it was movement. And I didn't even think of it. I was so derailed trying not to go onto antidepressants. And my neighbor knocked on the door. I had no idea he knocked on the door to check on me. How are you and the baby? And I just burst into tears. You'll learn more about. I was by myself with little baby Ashley. But I was like, dave, I'm not doing well at all. And he said, you know, what's going on? And I kind of described it. He was super forthcoming and vulnerable at that moment in the doorway and saying, I've struggled with mental illness my whole life. One of the most important things for me is movement and getting my endorphins going. He goes, I know you. I've lived across the street from you for six years. You're Always running or going to swim practice. Have you done either of those? I was like, nope. And he goes, you might want to give that a try. That was such sage advice at that moment. There were so many other things I needed to do, and I did. But he was exactly right. I hadn't moved my body. I hadn't gotten, like, energy and endorphins to my brain to help me cope with everything else that was happening. So it was like in real life, the power of movement and endorphins to take on some of the things that a lot of us struggle with.

It's really changed my life. I haven't talked about it much, even recently, but I have a fitness background, and I'm like, recently I've been getting the ping that I have to talk about that more for people again. Even though it was my life for so long, it's like, you know how some things. Your life for so long, you almost want to get away from it for a hot second. And I just was trying to get rid of that identity for so long. Cause I wanted to get into other things, and now I'm like, that's so it. It's so foundational, and it can't do anything I've done without it.

No, it's all intertwined.

It's all intertwined.

You probably went to the gym this morning, right?

Yes.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah. We went to Pilates together. It's great. Yeah. Loved it. It was very hard. It was great.

Great. And I love that it's something new that you're doing, which I think is also part of it. It's. It's taking on something new. Whether it's physical or mental is. It's just so good for. For our systems, it's good to, like, trigger a different muscle, literally, Or a different cell in your brain, literally. Like learning a language or learning an instrument or learning a new fitness regimen or sport. There's something really powerful to that.

Experiencing yourself in a different.

Yeah. And being humbling because you're so fit and strong that you're like, oh, I'm starting from scratch.

It's very humbling.

Yeah, it's great.

I'm the gruntiest person in there.

Oh, I would be cute. It's great.

Crazy. Okay, I want to. I want to ask one more question, because I feel like you've talked about the compatibility code.

Oh, yes.

You got to tell me about it.

Oh, my gosh. It's so good, guys. I feel like it's a whole another thing. Yeah.

I'm like, it's a whole other podcast.

It could be. Yes, I'm going to try and tell the short story, but I was in my 20s. I dodged a lot of bullets, okay? I was kind of trying to figure out, like, God, these are all great guys. But dot, dot, dot, couldn't quite figure this out. I went to lunch with an older guy who was a really close friend and colleague at Nordstrom, and he asked me to go to lunch because he finally wanted to tell me that he had met the woman he was going to marry. They have probably been married for 30 years, and they are the most incredible couple and humans. And during that lunch, he told me in a very pragmatic, typical way, she checked all five boxes. And I'll never forget leaning over my bento box and was like, tell me more. And he goes, well, I finally found someone that I'm compatible with in all five areas. Emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, physically, and recreationally. Oh, and I'm like, back up. Tell me more. And we, over the course of the lunch he described, describe to me a little bit more. I feel like that was the aha moment that helped me figure out why I was kind of dating those guys but was dodging the bullets and wasn't, like, had not met the one. And it was kind of this, like, framework, so to speak, where I now had a lens where I could go, okay, well, wait. What do those five things mean for me? And. And what. What are the values? And kind of, like, what. What would good look like recreationally? Does that mean, like, we go skiing every weekend, or we, like, rock climb, or we run marathons, or, like. Or we just, like, go on walks and, like, play intramural sports? I didn't know. And so I had to answer the question of what are those five areas of compatibility mean for me? And then now I have a lens for which I can kind of, like, almost, like, assess or evaluate the relationships, past and future, against those. And so when Sam and I met and we kind of talked about this a little bit, probably super casually, later, after we had been married, I kind of coined it the compatibility code. And in my book, I describe in this chapter how we were compatible in these five areas. It wasn't perfect. And most importantly, how we evolved and have changed over 26 years. Because how you're compatible recreationally in your 20s, 30s. Yeah, we were skiing every weekend. We were running a lot. Now we're going to yoga and taking long walks. Physically, you might be so super attracted to each other in your 20s and 30s. Well, that is that stage of life that's going to look different when you get a little bit older. Intellectually, he's really into politics, history, and I'm probably more into health and wellness and spirituality and fitness and food. But we've learned intellectually to share those interests, to, you know, compliment each other. So it's really about figuring out what do those five areas mean for you? What are the values that you hold in each one of those? What does good look like? And then how can you best filter the people in your life, the current partner, prospective partner, against those so that you can kind of set yourself up for success? And again, it's not going to be perfect, but you won't be blindsided because you haven't thought about it. So. So really, that's kind of what it's all about. And I think it's really kind of a love letter to people that are in their 20s that are kind of approaching and anticipating that. And maybe it is someone that newly. Is newly married and they've kind of scratched the surface. At the end of every chapter, there's lessons learned and questions for reflection. And I hope that chapter more than any prompts people to really think it through so that they can make really good intention and create a lasting relationship and kind of love affair that's based in kind of mutual understanding and respect, not just the initial stuff that brings you to the altar or to the agreement to get married.

Oh, man. I, you know, now at this point, been married 20 years, watched more than half of our friends get divorced. And, you know, when you dig into it, it's because they were missing some major components that are like core values. Essentially. You're naming kind of like core values.

Yeah, exactly.

What's important in spirituality, what's important in your life? What are important topics that you want them to feel are important as well.

Yeah.

And it's like you can be busy and life can take over, and, you know, all of a sudden, one day you wake up and you realize you're so far apart on a few of.

Those, and there's just no way chills.

I could come together.

I think it's so common. But you know what? Even if. Even if you are really far apart and you kind of have the humility and the courage to sit down and try and get closer. Yeah. At least I think these five give you kind of a framework.

A framework to.

To maybe structure the conversation and structure the, you know, the path to get.

Yeah.

Back aligned.

Yeah. And I. I love that it's a framework even to Go. Okay. If it didn't work, sometimes people will not be in a relationship anymore, and they don't have closure. They're like, why didn't it work? Was it me?

No.

Your core values were so misaligned that that's why it didn't work. It wasn't you. It wasn't him. It was literally. You're never going to come together.

Exactly.

And be cohesive.

Exactly. Yep.

So that is such an. I love, love, love that you can do it with friends. You can figure out those things.

Totally. Yeah.

So good.

Well, you know what? Actually, I hadn't thought about it with friends, but I think it's almost like there's certain people you're drawn to in life. And I have found that some of my richest mo. The fullest relationships are actually the most recent relationships. And it's probably because subconsciously we're really aligned on those five things. And there's an intuition and an energy that you can sense immediately. So this doesn't have to be a love relationship, a romantic relationship. It can be a personal relationship.

Totally. I love that whole topic, too, of like, oh, but aren't, like, your high school friends supposed to be your best friends? You've changed so much, and now you realize you also get to choose people based off of these.

We were just. We were at a dinner last night with one of our kids, and we just were talking, talking about this. That it's. It's somewhat rare to have really rich high school friendships later in life.

Yeah.

Because you're so different then, so different than you are now. And if you're lucky enough to kind of evolve on the same trajectory, you might have a handful of those. But it's those people. Once you've kind of found your footing and you've kind of matured and feel comfortable in your own self, then I think those relationships you find later as an individual, even as a couple, can be the ones that are just so precious and deep, even though they're really. They're young relationships.

They're young, but you can go deeper, faster, for sure. Because you're just so willing to talk about those things now that maybe you weren't willing to talk about before, or.

People have a preconceived perceived notion of you in your box the way you were.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so what is a message that you want to leave with everyone about your book?

I want to leave you with the message that you are in the driver's seat. You can live a beautiful, messy life that is entirely your own and that you can find a way to balance career, marriage, and motherhood. It's all entirely possible. But it's going to take clear values, it's going to take clear priorities, and more than anything, it's going to take a really strong support system. And if you can line up for that, you can actually create a life you love and not one that you're striving for that feels unattainable. It's all entirely possible. And I wrote this in hopes of inspiring more people to just create a life they love and, and do it on your own terms, nobody else's.

I love that. And you guys, you know, just even going through the book and table of contents, like you're going to walk them through what that looks like for them personally. So make sure you guys are going to go grab the book if you're feeling like, okay, is that really possible? Can I do that? I mean, I, I fully understand that, like, I've felt for a good portion of my life. Do I have to choose between family and career? Could I do it? Like, I love that you're having this conversation. So where can, where can we get the book?

You can get it on Amazon. Balance is bullshit. It's on Amazon, either in Kindle or hardcover. For those anxious audiobook readers that'll be forthcoming at the end of the year. Yay. Yeah, I'm super excited to do that. My daughter, who is a avid Kindle reader, she goes, this is one of those where you absolutely are going to want the hardcover because there's so much to highlight. But I think more than anything, at the end of every chapter, I kind of referenced this earlier. There's the lessons learned. So you can really take the story, apply it to your own life. And then there's questions for reflection. You may want to write in it, you may want to use it with your partner, with your friends, you may want to do something else with it. But I think having that physical copy at your bedside, because the questions for reflection, they may be applicable today, maybe tomorrow, maybe in a couple years. But I think it's going to be a fun way to journal and kind of put your thoughts to paper.

What a good partner book, too, to read. My husband, I have read books together, especially if you're dealing with balance within your life and family. What a great perspective that you have. Chapters from your kids, chapters from your husband. How is everybody feeling? All the different perspectives. I think that's so great. So, you guys, we have this linked up in the show notes as well below, so you can either go straight to Amazon or you can just click the link below and we're going to take you straight to Amazon so that you can get the book. But thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm so grateful for you.

Thanks. You, too. Loved it.

Oh, so fun. I always love having these conversations. And you guys, we will see you next week.