Jana Kramer On How To Rebuild Your Happiness After Trauma & Her New Book “The Next Chapter”

At the end of the day, if you truly love to learn yourself and you work on some really hard pieces that are going to be tough to walk through, that you will become a better version of yourself and doors will open, things will happen for you because you deserve love. You deserve the greatness of what life has to offer and the joy that life has to offer.

Welcome back to the Earn your Happy Podcast. I love today's guest, but before we get started, I want to let you know that Chris and I are offering something so exclusive and so exciting this year for anyone who is feeling like they are ready for the next big level and are ready for their new network that's going to help propel them into the next level. Because we all know that you're not going to get to your next level in the same circles of influence that you are currently in. And that is the truth that has been true for Chris and I our entire careers. And that is why we created the Dinner series which is three different events. It is a half day of facilitated networking and learning from experts. We do invite in some of our incredible friends who are also experts in a bunch of different industries. And then we have an incredible dinner to top it off where you'll be networking and really getting to know the people in this group. You'll be doing this three times and the last one is also a gala. So we are all about getting dressed up, dressing as your highest self, showing up as your highest self, having those incredible photos that you can share on social where people actually want to get involved with what you're doing because your life looks exciting. That's what this is about. You have to portray the life and the network that people want to be a part of and we want to make sure that you have this and you have access to this. So. So if you are ready for incredible relationships, incredible dinners, incredible experiences, really high level networking throughout the year, then this is for you. And I know that for me it has always been who I have been around that has helped me up level and get to the places that I want to go to. So you guys, if you are interested in coming to the dinner series, all you have to do is text the word dinner. That's it. Text the word dinner to 310-421-0416 and we're going to put you on our VIP list. The link is also below. Text the word dinner to 310-421-0416 and today on the podcast I have Jana Kramer. She is incredible. I was so excited to do this podcast, you guys. I've been following her for a while. She's a country music singer, actress, podcast host, and New York Times best selling author. She starred in television shows like One Tree Hill, Friday Night Lights, and Dancing with the Stars.

Are you kidding me?

You guys know I'm obsessed with Dancing with the Stars. And she has released two albums. Jana Kramer and 31. She lives in Nashville with her two children. She's a New York Times bestselling author, country music star, like I said. And her book is called the Next Chapter. And it's an intimate, moving account about setting her life back on the right path after a sudden divorce. And I know that you guys can probably all have this moment in your life where you just feel like things were falling apart, but ultimately it's made you who you are. So let's get started on the podcast. Jana, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

So you. I feel like I've been following you for probably like three years, but I can honestly tell you that in those three years, you're like, wow, a lot happened in the last three years.

Yeah, lots of, like, lots of evolving in those three years, which is honestly.

Just so beautiful because you've done it so vulnerably. And I think the reason I'm so excited to chat with you today is because you are one of those people who is willing to share what the journey really looks like. Because I think it's so easy to look at someone like you and say, maybe it's been easy, or, you know, she has all of these things. And I think that you sharing so openly gives us also permission. And not only that, but also the tools for navigating it. Because I think that having to go through it publicly is probably even harder than having to do it privately. So I'm really excited about your book, the Next Chapter. So I guess I just want to start with. I know that a book is just one of the world's most big undertakings and you have to be really moved to want to do it. What was, like, the premise of, like, that moment of, I really think that I need to put this in a book.

First of all, thank you for saying all that. I really appreciate it. And my ex and I, we wrote a book called the Good Fight. And that was. We wrote that after our marital struggles in the hopes of helping other people. And because of that book, we ended up getting another book deal about trusting your partner. And during that process of getting that new deal in place is when I found out more things. And so that is when we separated, and the deal. The book deal went away. And I remember calling my editor going, is there ever a world where I could write a book? Because there's so many things that I've wanted to say personally that I didn't get to share in the first book that I think helps just describe kind of why I've gotten here and how I've gotten here. And again, to hopefully help other people. And to me, it's like a connecting dots. Like, I didn't just get here without all the dots before it. And so her first thing that she said was, well, let's kind of wait until you're in a relationship and happy and you've had lots of time. And I'm like, listen, my biggest problem that I've ever had is that I'm happy when I'm in a relationship. Like Janet equals happy. When in relationship, I'm like, that's the problem. Like, I have to figure out how to be happy without that, or I will never be happy. And I will constantly be choosing the wrong people and being like, well, I'm just not happy. And, well, it's not because of them. It's because of me. Like, something's still broken inside of me. Like, I can keep blaming the guys that I've dated, but I also have to look in the mirror and go, okay, where is my part in all this? And so I was like, that's the book I want to write, because I don't want to read, because I. There's so many books. Like, I went through a hard time, but now I'm so happy, and I'm in love, and I'm just like, everything's amazing. And I'm like, great. But, like, how'd you get there? Are you only really happy because you're in this relationship? So for me, I was like, I want to write book about this in between wilderness of I don't know what tomorrow looks like or if I'll ever find love again, but I know that I need to somehow learn to love myself. And she was a little hesitant, but she said, you know, why don't you just start writing? Just diary out the next few months. And so when I filed for divorce, I mean, I. I just started writing a bunch of things. And for me, that was such therapy to get out how I was feeling on the page. And I sent it to her, and she goes, all right, keep writing. You know, she's like, I think there's something here. And that's when we kind of turned it into a diary of the day I filed for divorce to the year after. And obviously I've learned so much more since then. And we just finished the last pass of the edit early this year and it was really nice to see, like, how. Because when I first started the book, I was really angry. And then once I skimmed back and edited it this year, I was like, I don't need to put that story in. That's not really. That's not really important. It's not about him. It's really about me and, like, my journey. And so, I mean, I really cut a lot of stuff out from. And that also showed my growth too. And so I was able to put those pieces in. So I think to go back to your question, it was something like, I needed this book to know, okay, this feeling of devastation and I'm just completely alone is. I'm not alone in that. And I just would love. And hopefully that helps people along the way when they're reading the book.

So I think that's one of the most important things that we can ever do because it's not just, this isn't just going to happen once in our lives. Like, I'd love to tell people, they. They do the personal growth thing and they feel so much better. And you could write the book and. But it's kind of knowing that now that you have these tools that no matter what happens, because whether it's relationships or whether it's something that we have expectations around with work or female friendships or things that we're disappointed around, it's like, life is always going to go in season, so we have to love ourselves through every single season. What was it for you that really made you start to kind of seek on that journey? Was it. Actually, I'm going to have you just back up a little bit and kind of tell that story of what happened to the listeners who aren't caught up to kind of what led you down this road to writing the book. And then what was the moment of, wow, how do I find the tools? How do I dive into this personal development, whatever you want to call it. Growth journey.

Yeah, for sure. And I will say too, there was a moment in therapy a couple months ago or. Yeah, I was like. I was like, about a month ago where I was feeling something. And she goes, I think this goes back to X. And I'm like, but Amy, I've worked on this so many times. Like, how, like, totally Seriously, like, we got to do stuff around. She was like, your body remembers. She's like, and you're gonna get re triggered. And you, you have to still like though you don't have to work on this piece every day like we used to in or every time you'd come here for therapy, but it's still going to be a piece that we'll have to work on. And I remember just feeling so discouraged. I'm like, I thought I've worked on that and I'm over that piece. And she's like, it's always going to be there. So that was a, a nice reminder too, going, okay.

We call that like same trauma, different outfits. I'm like, yeah, you. How do you. Why are you showing up again?

Yeah, I'm like, I've dealt with you, I've cried about you. I've. I've grieved that thing and that, that pain. So why is it back? Yeah, so that's, that's interesting. So for those. Yeah. That don't know. I mean. And I wouldn't even say. And that's the thing where I love about. With my new book, the next chapter. It's a lot of people just kind of know my story with my ex husband who I was married to for almost seven years. He had multiple affairs and we tried to save our marriage after affair after affair and obviously it ended that marriage and that's where this book came from. But when you read the book, that's again where the dots come together. I was in a previous abusive relationship. Someone was very physical with me and that wasn't my first and that wasn't my last and there were childhood wounds and traumas and so it doesn't just start with my ex. He was just the middle piece of that story of the growth to recovery into healing and, and yes, I could blame him for the devastation of my family and all those things, sure. But I also would have probably picked different if I was healed before I met him and did some work that I didn't know I even needed to do. So the second that he cheated on me when we first started dating, I'd have been like, peace out. I know my worth. I don't deserve that. Now again, it's. I can say that all in. In hindsight, I ended up with two beautiful children from that relationship. I learned so much. So it's though I wish, yes, I could go back and have a little more love for myself and worth for myself. I also was able to have pieces of a beautiful life with him. So I can't just throw it all away too. That's the like balance with it.

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So when did that kind of. I know for me, I had quite a few moments. It's like I didn't just kind of wake up and say, this is the moment. I'm gonna like go on this healing journey. What were some of the things that started being revealed to you around there's a better way to start dealing with this and there is hope of healing on the other side.

So it was actually, it wasn't even my divorce that was the pivotal moment for me to change. It was the man I picked post Divorce that was the same cast, just different name. And that's when I was like, wow, I am literally picking the same person. And when that ended, that's when I really dug in and went, okay, why do I still think that this is what I deserve? What are the messages that I've received that I've been holding on to forever? And that's really when everything clicked for me was like, okay. Because I thought, oh well, gosh, I've been doing therapy for seven years with my ex husband. I don't need any more therapy. I know what our issues were. Yeah, I knew what our issues were, but I didn't know what my issues were. And that was. It took until repeating the same certain type of man again that I was like, I have to change something in me. And that was the scariest, hardest work I've ever done. And with that, I went to this beautiful retreat center and it was called On Site. I was just outside of Nashville, Tennessee. And it was again, it was things that I knew. I knew I had childhood wounds. I knew I had daddy issues. I knew I had X, Y and Z. But I didn't know how much shame I was carrying. And all the things that were previously said to me that I wore as the truth. So the messages like I deserve abuse. I deserve I'm not enough. I mean, all the things that I was carrying were things that I truly ended up believing and that was the rewiring of. Of things, and it was hard. I mean, I've lived with those messages for so long that to this day, I'm like, where I'm at in a very joyful season of my life and is so in love and about to have a baby. My work now is accepting that I deserve that. And that's been a really tough piece because I'm like, something must be happening with me. Or this is. Some of the shoe's gonna fall out. Or this feels so safe. I'm not used to it. So that's again, like, that's the work now that I have to do to feel comfortable.

So if there's somebody listening who's having a moment of like, wow, I am repeating the pattern, and I think that this is me. What are some of the things or a step that you would say to take in order to move past it?

Like, what.

What are some recommendations that you have?

Sure. Well, first and foremost, I'm, like, the biggest advocate for therapy and finding the right therapist. It's okay if you don't like one, try another one if you don't have the means to be able to do therapy. I know there's. There's a site called Better Help that I know people have found help on that. But also surrounding yourself with people that will speak truth into you. I. I had a very. My friends are not yes people. They will call me out on my stuff. They'll be like, yeah, but you need to really see this. And so the people that are just wanting to sit around and bash your person isn't. You might need one of those to help you on your low days. But you also want the people that are there for you, that speak truth into you. And whether it's hard truths or no, you do deserve better this than, you know, than that. So I think it's. Yeah, it's your surroundings. It's also for me. And I know this is like the most cheesiest saying, but this life is so short. And I believe that everyone deserves love and everyone deserves to be happy. And I personally was like, I don't want to be the person that is hardened at love that's like, oh, I'm never going to trust again. Like, sure, but that's also your choice. You can trust again. It might be hard to trust again. And I know at times it's. It was very hard in the beginning to trust people or a new relationship. But that's also. If I want what I say I want, then I have to be willing to really just go, okay, this is not my past, and this is now my future. And so you have to just rewire completely. And it's hard, but, I mean, I put sticky notes around the house. I put. My friends came over and did sticky notes and things that I just constantly repeated to myself until I believed it.

I run a lot of different events, and I get to talk to a lot of different people kind of about just whether it's entrepreneurial journey or personal development journey. And I have a lot of people who say things like, okay, I tried that, and it still didn't work. Or I tried to open back up to whether it was, like, new female friendships or a new partner, but it happened again. It still didn't work. I'm trying these things. What are some of the things that you would say to them in those moments of, it's still not working? How do I hold out hope? Or how can they kind of, like, look at themselves during that time?

So when I was going through the, like, kind of my hot girl summary, I'll call it, I just. Because I've never dated, I just was like, I'm just gonna date. I've always just been in relationships. And I think during that time, what I found was I learned something from everything and from everyone. I learned something about myself. I learned something about what I want and what I need. And that's what I'm like. When you're saying that, I'm like, yeah, I know you tried, but try again, because you're gonna learn something else. And that stuff that's, like, so powerful to put into your wealthier bowl of knowledge that you have, because you're gonna do better the next time. You're gonna know better, and you're gonna either, like, learn something from it, or you can take something from and be like, I really like that piece, but I don't like that piece. And you can kind of create your own puzzle of life. And, like, yeah, I know it's hard. And especially it's like, you know, someone just DM me. Like, but the dating pool sucks, and it's terrible. Yeah, it is. But right now, there's a reason and a season why you're supposed to just kind of be still in this moment and learn something. So, like, what is it? And that's, like, for me, where I had to go, okay, in this season, it's not about finding someone. It's about just finding joy, wherever that is. And I did, like, right after my divorce, I'm like, okay, I want the perfect family. And I want to find someone, and it's not because I'm never going to be loved, and I don't want to be on my deathbed and no one's loving me. But again, you. You are in control of the puzzles. And it's so, I think, empowering to be able to go just to learn and take things in and not give up, instead of just being cynical and going, well, I'm never gonna. Because I got hurt so bad, I could hate my ex for the rest of my life and never trust another man for the amount of times that he lied to me, looked me in the eyes 1 million percent. But that's not cool. I don't need him to steal my joy or the rest of my life. Like, I get to create the rest of my life. So it's basically, what do you want to do with it?

I love that. Just because it's really. I think of all the times where either it's a relationship or you're failing in your business or whatever that looks like. It's so easy to go, oh, my God, I failed again. But it's never those times that I look back on where I'm like, wow, I really grew during that super great season. I really grow way more from the challenges, like you. It's that opportunity where I always try to. We try to rush, like, the winter season, except winter is, like, where I feel like you're getting this beautiful rejuvenation of the next version of you that's coming. So whenever I'm trying to rush those seasons, I'm like, you're here learning.

You're just.

You're growing for the next season that's coming. So your book really delves into, like, the theme of forgiveness and peace. Tell me about how that looks in your everyday life. Like, how do you practice that every single day?

I mean, again, this is like a cheesy kind of turn back, but there's grace in, like, all those moments. So it's like having grace for myself, having grace for my ex, having grace for whoever in my life in that day. I don't want to be held down with negative energy. I don't want hate. I don't want to feel hate. I don't want that. I'm like, I just want everyone to be happy. Like, I just. I don't want to have let anyone steal my joy. So, yes, again, like I said, like, I can be angry at people, or I can say they wronged me, or I can blame them, but that does nothing but just cause more kind of heaviness on me. And once I kind of released that weight of anger. I think the anger piece is when, like, once I was able to forgive, but the forgiveness was harder for myself. Like, I was angry at myself more than I was angry at anybody else. So that was the toughest piece for me to walk past. But I don't want to have the negative energy. So I'm not going to say, oh, it's okay, and you're forgiven. But, you know, I've also had to have the tough conversations to have people that I've hurt and go, hey, I'm really sorry. I'm not asking for. It's okay. I just need to say that. And. And I hope you can hear me and. And let it just be that at the end of the day.

So how do you forgive yourself in those moments? How did you start to get past that? Because I know that you couldn't be sitting here right now and talking about being in a great relationship and all, writing a book and just being at the. What feels like the peaceful spot you're at right now without really having a good practice around being able to forgive yourself. So what does that look like in those hard moments where you're like, oh, my gosh, letting go of that feeling? And what do you tap into? I know that you talk about. Got a lot in your book, so could you kind of elaborate on all that?

Yeah, sure. And there was this great poem, and I can't remember it now, but basically, when someone's weighing you down and you're holding the rope, like, sometimes you have to be the one to let go because it is weighing you down. Like, you're slipping. You're about to fall over. So it's like, I can't hold this anymore for you, so I have to let it go. And I kind of hold that space with forgiveness, too. Not because I'm, like, letting the person fall down and, like, drop, but it was. It's more of a. Like, I don't need to be carrying this anymore. This isn't good for me. This is actually giving me pain to be holding onto this. So I'm going to let it go for the both of us. And with the God piece, that's been a journey for many years. But I know that when I was in my devastation of those. That first few months and post divorce, that feeling of being alone was really, really hard for me. And it was the first time where I was like, all right, I know you've been there wanting me to open the door to you. But I haven't trusted it because I've just looked at you as another man that would probably just walk away, but he's going to be the person that will be there regardless. And so just kind of letting that sink in and, and trusting that has been helpful because I for, for peace, you know, at the end of the night, like going, okay, I'm alone in bed, but I'm really not alone. And that has been something that helped me along the way too. But the forgiving myself was. Yeah. I mean even when I was recording the audio part of my book, the next chapter, it was one of the chapters about abuse was the hardest ones to read out loud because I still judge at times the girl that was hiding in the bushes. So I'm like, what are you doing hiding in the bushes? Get out of the bushes. Leave this man. You know. And so. But then, you know you again. You have to just find grace for she was doing the best she could do and you'll do better now.

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So tell me about hearing. I know that you talk about, like, being able to hear God or hear whether you're talking about the voice of intuition or however that's like, speaks to you. Tell me a little bit about that.

I think it's just again, in those quiet moments for me, I've never liked to be alone. I love having people around. I love having my friends around. I love being in a relationship. And so when I was forced to be alone, that is when I needed that comfort of knowing that someone is there. And that's, you know, when I brought in God into my life and had started a relationship and was like, all right, I'll test you out. You know, what's. What's up, you know, get there. So, like, yeah, I mean, it's so silly and. But it was. Ended up becoming a comfortable thing where now it's, you know, it's a more routine thing. It's not as routine as I'd like it to be. At the end of the night, I'm usually tired and I forget to pray or. But I'm always praying with my kids at night. And that's just been. That has woven into a beautiful thing with my children because that's something that we do together every single night. So because I didn't have that as a kid. Like, we didn't pray. We didn't. I didn't know that I had someone that was looking out for me or that was helping me or guiding Me or going to be there for me. So just to have that hopeful comfort for my children has been a nice relationship again for that season.

So I'd love to hear from you. Because for me, even just when I really brought, like, faith back into my life, I was raised in a more restrictive religion, so I kind of strayed from it for a while and then brought it back. I think there's a lot of people who can feel, you know, in the midst of, especially with your story, like, bad things happening. It's like, okay, if you're really there, why are these bad things happening? So can you tell me about, like, how you lean on your faith during those times, and what is your belief around that that keeps you feeling connected and faithful, even though life is going to continue to throw us challenges?

For sure. I mean, that's where one of my biggest struggles was. I'm like, all right, God, like, how could you take my kids away from me? You know? Like, why did he, like, do this again? Like, he got baptized. I got. It's like, I'm like, I don't understand, like, how you could do this.

Yeah.

But I also know the greater plan. And fortunately, I haven't had to deal with the faith of death being tested yet. That would. That would be something I would have a really, really, really tough time with. I've been fortunate. I've only lost older grandparents and stuff, but, yeah, I mean, I have a friend whose child passed away. I'm like, I. That's where faith is the most tested. And I don't know how I would be walk that path. But I also know that, you know, God is a good God. He wants to be there, and there is always a reason. And again, I just think for me, I have to have faith in order to. Because I have, you know, I have a fear of dying. I have a fear of death and all those things. So I'm like, I have to be strong in my faith, because if not, I'll just go crazy, you know? So I just. I need to know that there's something else out there. And again, I've asked him, and I've mother effed them. And I'm like, how could you do this? And, like, you know, my family, my kids. And now I am so thankful. Like, I thank my ex for things that he's done, because I'm like, I have the most beautiful life now. So I think there's always a reason why, as hard as it can be in the moment.

How did you navigate motherhood during this? Were you able to compartmentalize. What did that look like?

It was so hard. And again, I wrote that in the beginning of the book, basically being like the next morning that I just filed for divorce. I gotta take my kids to school, and I'm having a panic attack, you know, and I haven't eaten and I'm shaking and I'm crying and. And it's just me. And my ex had already left the house. I know he was at. He's golfing or whatever, and it was really, really hard. And so when they were at school, I would just cry all day long until I go, okay, I have to. I can't ball in front of them. Right? So they saw me sad a few times, but after that I was like, I gotta lock this up, because. But it was hard. It was unfair. And there's still moments where it's not easy to say goodbye to your kids at all, ever. That's not a normal thing. That's not something I ever wished. So it gets easier, but it's still not a normal thing. But it was. Yeah, it was. It was really hard. But luckily they're why I had to stay so strong and what helped me through it all.

How old are they? Are you. Are you able to, like, have any conversations with them around it, or is it kind of just.

So my son is going to be five in November. My daughter is going to be eight in January. So my daughter Will was aware, you know, like, she remembers Daddy in the house and things. And then I had to have a conversation with her, you know, daddy doesn't live here anymore. And she asked a bunch of questions, and I just said, we're better off as friends. And sometimes we have, you know, two different houses and Santa's gonna come to two different houses. And I kind of tried to just be very positive with it. And then my son Jace, I was showing him a video the other day. He's like, why was Daddy there's? And I was like, was he used to live there? Like, I was like, you don't remember that? And he's like, so he was only. He was two when we got divorced, so he doesn't remember even us together at all. Which is wild.

If you had younger Jana sitting next to you right now, like, let's say eight years old. And she sat right down next to you. She's super cute, obviously. And she looked at you right now and she grabbed your hand and she told three reasons why she's so proud of you right now. What would she say?

She would probably say, thank you for, for finding your way back to, to me, she would say, you know, you're doing a good job keeping your kids safe and happy. I would love to say things to her like, I'm so sorry, you know, and all those things. But I think, yeah, she would probably just be like, I know I'm loved, and you're doing a good job of repairing that love. Okay.

We're just going to recover from that. That is so beautiful. If you had to name the lesson, like, let's just say we, we look at it and it's all for us. Because I feel like you probably have that same belief that I carry, is that eventually we'll be able to look back. What's the Steve Jobs quote?

It's.

You can't connect the dots looking forward, only looking backward. So if you, let's Even fast forward 10 years from now and you are able to just, like, name the lesson of why you went through that, whether it's to help other people or whether it was to maybe become a more resilient person, whatever that is, what would you say that lesson was?

I think I went through it all to be able to help other people, but I would say so that's, I've, I've always believed that, like, I think I have a platform because I was meant to share and help other people. But I would say the lesson in all of it is knowing that I'm worthy of love and I deserve love.

And that version of you, who is that version of you when you are feeling worthy of love? Who are you to other people? Who are you in the world? When you are feeling worthy, you're feeling like you deserve this life.

My fiance would say, I mean, he's like, you're powerful, you're confident, you're vibrant, you're light. And that's who I want to be. You know, I want to be that confident version, and I want to, I want to feel that. And, you know, again, we all have those messages. I've lived longer with the shame messages than I have the new ones. So it's still a work in progress. But, yeah, I mean, I would say it's, it's the, it's the peace. Like, I just, I, I, I'm feeling at peace.

So I'm curious who you, who, Jana, 10 years from now is, if you continue on this path of being able to, like, know that you're worthy, feel like, you know, you're really on your kind of game and your practices, and it's just, this is who you are. You're staying in that light, you're feeling really light. Who do you think you are at that point and what are you doing in the world?

I mean, I'd love to be continuing to help people. I would love to be able to continue to being authentic and open about the seasons that come. Like you said, there are going to be hard seasons that come. There's going to be amazing seasons that come. And just reminding myself that I'm, you know, still in a safe, secure, happy place with myself and also with my family, however that ends up looking. But hopefully it's, you know, in a very happy household. Because I won't accept anything less than that because I know I deserve that. I know my kids deserve that. And, you know, with me, it's. I think I've lost out on maybe certain acting roles. Cause I'm like, oh, I can't do that. I'm always discounting myself. And so I think where I'm at now in my life is like, no, I can do this. I do deserve this part. And I'm gonna try a lot harder instead of just being like, oh, I just. I just have to give them the tape. Because that way at least they can see that I'm doing it well. I'm not gonna get it because I have zero confidence in myself. So being able to actually do good work and be confident that I put the very best thing out there. And that's what I want to do with my life in general. Putting the best version of myself out there and not holding myself back.

I love that point. I hope everyone listening caught that of. It's the realization of deserving because so many people quit on the first and second try. And that's so tied to worthiness. It's like, no, you deserve to practice and fail and practice and fail. And you deserve to put the work in. And it's like the discipline and the work is how we show ourselves that we're worthy and that that is self love. Like, it's worth going back and trying again and doing all those things. And I think it's really easy to think, like, if you strike out, that's it. But like, self love truly is. Sometimes it looks like. Sometimes it looks like nurturing and grace. Sometimes it looks like more self discipline and going back and forth, failing publicly. I love that point. So can you tell me a little bit about. I'm. I am huge in my life. I wrote a book on it, actually, about female friendships. Because I didn't have them before and now I have. They're like, Literally, the most magical thing in my life. I feel like I'm able to do just about anything, if not anything, because of them. So I would love to hear, have you always had female friendships and what role do they play in your life now?

I am so blessed. We call ourselves the Queendom, but I have five best girlfriends and they are wildly different in every way. And we just all work together in. In the best, most magical ways. I mean, I. I could not have gone through anything that I've gone through in my life without these five women. And let's see, when did we become the Queendom? Probably, I'd say, like, four years ago, but they've all been friends that we just, you know, I've been friends with one of them for 12 years, one of them for 10 years, and it's beautiful because, again, we are all so different that we can draw from each other's strengths and we can uplift, you know, lift each other up and. Yeah, I've always had great female relationships, but I think now that I'm almost 40, I've truly just honed in on the ones that I don't want the drama. I don't. We don't need any of that. And so it's really narrowing down the people in my life that are going to push me to be the best version and that are fun and that are safe and that I can trust and that, yeah, that makes up the Queendom.

Sounds like an amazing queendom to be part of.

So fun. Yeah, it's great. Our chats are like a. Yeah. I mean, all week I'm like, oh, there's 70 messages. Okay, here we go. Who's dating who? What's going on?

Here we go. Yeah. All right. So in order to have that, though, there. There's like so many layers to that because I think that there is a lot of things that you have to let go of, such as, like, expectations. You have to be confident with yourself. So maybe you're not comparing. You have to know when to kind of switch the conversation when it's not healthy. You have to bring people up instead of, like, going on their drama. What are a couple of the things that you personally. Because I know that friendships, as freaking amazing as they are, they can also be like triggers, they can also be mirrors for certain things. So what are a couple of things that you're like, wow, okay, like, you have to work on that it holds you to in order to keep these friendships really tight.

Yeah. So I think it's just over communication. One of my Best friends in that group. She's who I'm the absolute closest to. When there's something that I can kind of feel her off, I'll just be like, hey, are you good? Like, did something. Something happen? Because I don't want anyone to feel either left out or. So I'm just like, I'm an over communicator. I will over communicate to make sure that my friends are good. They feel loved, they feel heard, they feel valued. And we work well like that. You just. You see people's personalities. You see where they tick. You see where you, you know, you kind of are with them. And it's. Friendship is so interesting, but it's. They don't have to be so heavy, too. Like, I remember I had to kind of nix one girl out just because there was just too much where I felt like she was always just so negative, in which I found myself becoming negative. And I don't want to talk about people, you know, I don't want to. You're always talking bad about people. And. And I know that draws from Mike, maybe their own insecurities and stuff like that, but I think it's just, again, finding the people that will bring you up.

I love it. It's like, it's the best growth. It's hard, but it's got the biggest reward of. I just. I'm obsessed.

Like, yeah.

It has also freed me up. Female friendships have also, like, made me better in my marriage. Like, I can say that my marriage got exponentially better. I've been married 18 years. But it got exponentially better in, like, the past probably eight years. Because I don't expect my husband to fill all of my needs. It's kind of like, I know where he's his best. And then I've got my girlfriends for, like, these other things where I'm like, hey, we're not going to share this stuff with him, because he hates that I overanalyze everything. And I'm going to be able to do that with this person over here, and it's going to be great. So.

Exactly. I know some things. I'm like, I probably shouldn't have said that to you about this person that's dating this person, but I would, you know, it just like, all right, I'm going to save that for my girlfriend, best friend, friend talk. And then, yes, you know, he doesn't love playing games. Well, my girlfriends love playing games. I'm like, right, I got my friends for that. You know, like, we're gonna have Eucharite and You can just go watch football. I don't know.

Yeah, it's the best. And I mean, the same thing works for your girlfriends. Like, I used to think all my girlfriends had to check off these, like, best friend checklist. And so whenever they wouldn't like, do a couple of them that I really loved, like, maybe you don't love adventure like I do. It was like, oh, then I guess we're not going to be like besties.

But now I realize I've got my.

Business best friend, I've got my adventure best friends, I've got my wine drinking friends, I've got the who keep me on track when I need to get fit again. Like, it's so fun in that way. And I think releasing expectations for me has been the biggest thing with girlfriends.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's like I, I love like one of my best, best best friends. I technically wouldn't maybe want to go on a vacation with her. I'd rather go with my other friend, you know, who's a little more fun maybe and would bring out more fun for me and. But I love the other one, you know, so, yeah, it's right. It's fun.

I love that you shared that. I think that's so important for people to hear. Like, it's just people serve all those different purposes.

So.

Okay, I, I am so excited about your book because I know that there is just so many different aspects of healing and growth and friendship and God, it's kind of the whole gamut to live a more peaceful, happy, healed life. So if you could tell the listeners, like, why do you want them to read this book? Like, what are some of the things that they're going to get from it?

Well, I want them to know that they're not alone, number one, first and foremost. But they're not alone in their struggles. They're not alone in feeling like they don't have it all figured out. They're not alone in feeling that anything you've gone through, whether it's divorce or a breakup of a relationship, feeling like you're just going to be alone forever. That feeling of devastation, like you're not alone in any of your feelings. All of your feelings are valid. Something else that I talk about in the book too is I want you to know that it's okay to hold space for both. And I struggled with that too in the very beginning because I'm like, well, I'm happy, but I'm still sad. And can I feel both? And it's like, yes, you can. And here's why? And that was a huge learning tool for me. And I just, I want them to. To know that at the end of the day, if you truly love to learn yourself and you work on some really hard pieces that are going to be tough to walk through, that you will become a better version of yourself and doors will open, things will happen for you because you deserve love. You deserve the greatness of what life has to offer and the joy that life has to offer.

So good. The last question I have for you, this answer might be kind of the same of what you just shared, but I'd love to hear if you only had one billboard a year and it was your message for this year, and everyone was like, that's all they got to know about you and the message that they needed to hear from you, what would that message be?

Probably my long standing truth that I've had to realize is you are enough. It's been my biggest message that I didn't believe for a long time, but that you are. And all those things, when you believe that, that's when things really start to shake.

I would like that billboard. That'd be a good one to drive by, right?

All right.

I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing. I feel like we went to a little portal. That was so great. I'm like 45 minutes. Okay, we're. And you guys, I want to gift the first 10 people who share this and tag Jana. What's your handle?

Jana at KramerGirl.

Okay. @ Kramer girl. So you have to tag Jana and then tag me at Lori harder and let her know what your biggest takeaway was from this podcast. I'm going to gift the first 10 people your new book, the next chapter. And all you guys have to do is share this on your story and I'll make sure that I send that to you. Jana, I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Today. Thank you for having me and thank you for everyone who listened and I appreciate all of you guys. So thank.

You. Thank you guys so much. And until next time, earn your happy. Bye.

Everyone.