Leveraging PR to Boost Visibility, Credibility and Get Paid MORE For What You Do with Rebecca Cafiero

Literally, you guys, we're opening all the curtains, pulling back all the curtains for you today.

Getting you in a publication will probably lead to nothing in sales. Nothing. I mean, we talked about that. Listen, Lori, if you get anyone buying glossy from this, that's going to be a bonus. But let's talk about what it does do. It is the credibility of the being seen in or featured in or mentioned in having those name brand recognition media outlets. People just assume that you are an expert. Think about it. You're going to hire a trainer, you're looking at like Yelp or wherever and they've got similar ratings or you go to their websites, they could have the same type of results, they can offer similar types of programs. But if you see that one of them's been featured in Women's Health, Women's Fitness or Refinery 29 or Forbes Health, you're gonna say, wow, okay, she's really good. Because she would only be featured in these publications if she knew what she was talking about. She is an expert and not only are you more likely to select her, you're more likely to pay her extra for her expertise.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the earn your happy podcast. I just want to say a mega, huge, grande, super thank you for helping us rank in the top 50 all of the time in entrepreneurship. Not just top 50, but you guys, we are breaking top 50 15. I have to just say I'm very excited because I have been placed next to Gary Vaynerchuk and Leila Hermosi in the top spots in entrepreneurship. So that is like a big, big, big, I feel like Julia Roberts. Big, huge deal, not mistake.

That's a big, huge deal.

And I'm really excited because that is all organic from you guys. That comes from when you share with people, when you subscribe, rate and review. So if you haven't done that yet and you love the podcast, to see us get even more incredible guests on here, you guys, it would mean the world to me if you would go and do that. Also, I want to let you know that you can go to getglosy.com and get 25% off of your subscription with Code Happy. And if you're not feeling your best right now, maybe if you're feeling a little bloated, maybe if you're having some skin issues, maybe you're feeling a little dehydrated, maybe you know that you're off of your fitness and wellness game. I want you to go and try this. Truly, I want you to go and try it with one glossy A day if you want to do the loading phase, where you're going to feel super freaking great in the morning and in the evening. So what you're going to do is you're going to do one stick of glossy every single morning right when you get up. So it's the first thing that hits your stomach. Then you can have your coffee right after. I promise you have it very first thing in the morning in 16 to 20 ounces of water. And then I want you to take it at night. Like, the last thing that you have, 16 to 20 ounces of water. And I want you to try this for, like, I mean, you'll notice in seven days, but in 30 days, I'm telling you, just really keep track of your bloat and your digestion and how your skin looks, because the hyaluronic acid in this just keeps a nice, like, plump, like, dewy look to your skin and also a flat tummy in waking up not bloated is coming from better digestion. And this probiotic IS has over 30 clinical studies on it. And that's why we spent a load of money in order to get these ingredients that we wanted. Our magnesium is incredible. It's a super bioavailable magnesium. And like I said, this probiotic was super pricey. And we spent the money on it because we knew that it worked. There was proof that it actually worked. And so when we were creating this, I was like, I don't want people to be taking something. And 30 to 60 days later, they're like, you know what? I just don't see this really working. So I'm not going to stick to it, because I am about the long game. If you know me, I am all about the long game in my relationships, in my life, all of the things. So you guys go and check it out. Go to getglosi.com and get 25 off with code happy. And today I have an incredible guest on. Her name is Rebecca Cafeiro. And you guys, she is the woman behind all of the amazing PR that Glossy is getting. And she's just got it so dialed in. And you don't necessarily have to go and hire someone for your pr. This woman is going to teach you so many different ways to get attention for your own business. And I'll tell you, like, we have gotten Forbes, we have gotten Us Weekly. We have gotten Business Insider. We've gotten so much more. We were picked up by so many media outlets for Glossy, it was insane. And it's because this woman just has incredible relationships in her life. And not just that. She's going to tell you the ways to do this. So she is a PR and marketing expert. She's a bestselling author and event host of the Pitch Club, which I'm going to be speaking at. You guys go and check it out. Check out the show notes. You can check out Pitch Club. I'm going to be there live. And Rebecca is the ultimate business girls girl, and she uses her expertise in PR to help women gain media visibility, get featured in major publications, and booked on podcast and stages. So I worked with her for Glo and I absolutely loved it. I loved the process. I loved getting to work with her team. At the time we recorded this episode, we just had gotten done with our press release for Glo C. And it's really helped us build credibility and it helped us, like, get so much awareness around our product. So Rebecca shares her 4P's framework to build your visibility and media presence and how to make money as a podcast guest without being salesy on someone else's show. Because we know that people don't wanna book you if you sound salesy. We literally pull back the curtain in real time on how to be a great podcast guest. Naturally weave your offer into the conversation and add value to the listener. So let's get started.

Rebecca, welcome to the earn your happy podcast.

I am having like a pinch me moment because one Laura, you know I'm a huge fan of yours, but I have been listening to this podcast for almost, what, nine years? Nine, 10 years? It's the first podcast I ever actually listened to on an ongoing basis.

Nothing makes me happier than, like, having these people on, like, having you, someone like you who's like, I've listened to podcasts forever. I just had Jen Gottlieb on the other day, like, the other day again. She's been on multiple times, but it's kind of the same thing where it was like, I've listened to your podcast for so long. I'm like, well, you should be on it then. So we're gonna talk about your journey because it has been so cool to piece all of the puzzles together and like, me knowing what the, like, the puzzles were like. I know the different people that you worked with and that you've helped and all of these different things. So it's really fun for me to. To watch how the whole journey has unfolded. And now you guys, everybody listening. There's so many things that Rebecca does that can help you on the journey. And not only that, Rebecca is helping me. Me right now, which I think this is going to be a great conversation because it's so real time with what we're doing together. So I'm going to share just a touch about that, too, and then we're going to get in all that you do, Rebecca. So we just literally released our press release today for Glossy, which was so exciting. So tell me, tell everyone kind of what a press release does. Sure.

So historically, a press release is put out by a public relations company and it is some type of informative piece. It could be a company update, in your case, a product release. And it goes out on the wire, they call it. I mean, this is probably like old school days, but it goes out to every publication, TV station, you know, blogs out there. And publications decide, or media outlets decide, are they going to pick it up and republish it. So, you know, it could send out once. And the goal is that many different news outlets pick it up because it's coverage to their audience. It's, you know, massive visibility. And I literally keep refreshing to see, like, how many we're getting picked up. But last time I checked, the first press release for Glossy had been picked up by over 350 outlets. Multiple ABCs, NBC, CBS, like all the, all the big ones, all the ones you want to be on. And the idea is to obviously to raise awareness, and it's also to build credibility for the brand, the person, whatever it is that's being announced.

Very cool. It's so exciting because this is all stuff I didn't really know I'd heard of these things.

And we're going to get into a.

Lot of things like that, you guys, that can really help you. It's kind of like, okay, why would I want to do a press release? Because also it's kind of the basic stuff where you're like, well, you get to, for the most part, use some of these people's logos on your website. And that's where some of the credibility comes in as well. So this has been a super fun learning experience for me. And, you know, for press releases that someone who maybe is releasing a book or a product, these are the things that these are good for. So we're going to chat all about this today. We're going to talk about guesting as a. On a podcast, profitable. So any of you who have a business, a product, a course, a mastermind, like, this is going to be info that you don't want to miss. So, Rebecca, let's go back and talk about how our paths initially crossed.

Oh, my goodness. So I met you or kind of. I think I became aware of you because you were, you were like on stages and I was the little peel on in the back of the audience. I mean, it's okay. I mean, this is the great thing is that visibility does wonders. But it was about a decade ago is back in 2013 and I was winding up a 13 year career. I didn't realize that at the time, but yeah, I didn't realize it, but that's what happened. So a little background. My degree's in journalism. I worked at a paper firm for years. I realized, like many journalists, I didn't want to have a bartending job to support my journalism habit. I mean, no joke, I really was like paying my rent with my bartending and journalism and writing and communicating was my passion. So I went into sales. I'm like, that will make money. And I had a really incredible 13 year career in corporate sales for real estate. And I managed over a billion dollars of sales and did a lot of really cool things. And that's where I was when our paths crossed and I fell into network marketing, which was a great little segue out of corporate while I decided and figured out what do I really want to do when I grow up. Right.

Totally teaches you a lot about yourself, huh? So then I know that Bliss project was like one of your very first events, which is so crazy to me because you're like, oh, you were on stages and like some of the first stages. Yes, yes.

Well, and I have to, I have to give a shout out for Chris because we were sitting at a lunch together at this network marketing company. I had won some rank advancement. I didn't even know what that meant. And I had a great job that paid well. But I will say I was excited about people walking across, like the stage and getting to wear whatever they wanted. And I had just been censored at work for taking a photo with my shoulders showing. And I'm like, seriously? Literally, it was a gorgeous photo, but my shoulder showed. It was like a halter and very professional. And HR was like, you need to have this reshot. This is not appropriate. I was the youngest for a publicly traded company, so anything else looked really attractive. I'm an enneagram7 like your husband. I'm like, freedom, ultimate choices. Don't box me in. So I ended up sitting next to Chris at a luncheon and he just could not have been kinder. And I was already fangirling over you. I didn't tell him that, but, you know, he was so kind. And he like, how do I say this? It doesn't sound weird. I told him I was about to leave corporate America. He's like, here's my number. Shoot me a text when you're about to leave and I can give you some strategies that I wish I would have used when I was leaving. And you know, he had nothing to gain. And again, it just, it's always nice when you have like your role models and you find out that they're just as wonderful in real life as they are when they're in front of people.

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I love that. Yeah, we're like, yes, give us your number so we can recruit you.

Unfortunately, I was, I know I was already in the organization.

You're already in it.

So, you know, I, I'm one of those people that when I find something, like, I go for it. And that was 2013. I left my job that year and I, my first. Well, I left my job in 2014. So my very first event I went to after I left my job was the List project. And I brought three women with me. I was like, you know, we're gonna have four of us in the room. It's gonna be a party. And it was, it was incredible. I mean, you did a beautiful job, like building community and making people feel safe and, you know, like, everything was possible. I remember, I think it was Danette. She read from a children's book. I want to say it was like, I don't remember. I think it was Dr. Seuss. But it just, it really felt magical and it planted a seed in me, like your podcast, that I can do these things. I don't know how, but someday I want to do these things. And, yeah, that's where we are now.

This is so fun because you, you had an incredible career before, but then you, this is a, that's a major pivot, like to be, you know, doing network marketing and then doing what you're doing now. And so for anybody listening, like There are keys to doing major pivots into what you love and you enjoy. And I know that you love this so much because you really put incredible women on blast. Like, that is your job. You get to elevate them, their voice, their hard work. You get to celebrate wins together. And you've created an awesome business out of it, like getting women media coverage or getting them paid by, you know, being guests on podcasts. Like, what an awesome career. Like, what made you kind of figure this part of your career out?

I did not leave my corporate job. I mean, I. I left it with the idea that network marketing will provide kind of, it'll provide a loan that I'll have to pay back while I'm building my career. But I actually, I went into business coaching because I had said my. My last year, I think I managed 400 million in sales, and I was. I had teams get 48 employees at the end. And I knew I was good at people development. I was great at buy in. I loved mentoring. So I was like, well, coaching makes sense. And that's what I did for the first four or five years. But I reached a point where I started getting really frustrated because I was like, this isn't going as fast as I would like. And I knew that, like. Like, I'm sure the woman out there listening is feeling this. She's like, you know, you're good. You know, you bring value, and yet you feel like, when have I arrived? When am I going to get the, like, the person anointing me that I'm now the expert in this? Or, you know, when is it going to get easier? When am I going to make more money? And I was getting frustrated because not only did I feel like pretty plateaued, but at the time I was about to have my first. Well, I had my first child. I was pregnant with my second. And I'm like, my time is diminishing, and every hour I'm spending away from my family or doing something outside of, you know, work is an hour I better be getting paid well for. And I kind of asked myself, I'm like, well, what can I do to be seen as the expert? What can I do to increase my credibility and my visibility and my rates? Right? And I'm like, I don't want only my clients to know that I'm great. Like, that's a problem when someone hires you. Like, this is so much better than I expected. You're like, no, this should not be a surprise, you know?

Yeah.

And what came to me from my journalism days is oh, you need pr. I never studied priority. My, my degree was in old school print journalism, like back in 2002. But, you know, I knew a little bit about PR and I interviewed a few different PR agencies in 2017 and 18, and they all said the same thing. 5,000amonth, six month minimum. And I have a sales and marketing background. So I was like, okay, well, what are my deliverables? What are the results I can track? How is this going to lead to more sales? Like, I was asking those questions and I was getting these blank stares and it was a lot of, well, just visibility is good. I'm like, yes, but in, in my old sales world where we were selling to people walking through the door, we were selling homes. I was like, I get that if you have a certain amount of people walking through the door and you can look at conversion ratios, but there seemed like there was no formula in pr and so I, I opted out. I was like, I'm not going to invest 30,000 plus on something that I can't see return. However, I took a friend of mine who owned a little niche PR agency. She specialized in fashion tech. So she's like, you're not my ideal client. She didn't try to pitch me, and I took her out for my manicure pedicure. And I said, I hate the saying, but like, can I pick your brain? I'm like, I'll pay for your mani pedi. Can I ask you questions? And she just gave me two or three tips. And I gave myself permission to be a student, to be a beginner, to get curious. And I was like, let me just see if I can figure this out on my own. And again, I have a degree in journalism, so I had a certain level of understanding. And in the next year, putting in about, I would say, less than an hour a week, I was able to get featured or mentioned in 20 national publications for free. So that's how it started. I never intended to teach people this, but as I was getting these results and, and I was like, wow. One, I'm, I'm getting fully booked. I'm now wait listed. I'm raising my rates. I'm getting more opportunities because I of this idea that I'm more credible, which I want to tell everyone, just because you're published doesn't make you more credible. But for women, especially if we deal with imposter syndrome, it does feel different and it gets people to pay attention and it differentiates. And whether that's right or wrong, it just is. So if the game is There, let's play the game. And then I had a client who actually was my old national VP of sales. And I was working with her on the side. And she's like, rebecca, how are you getting this media? Like, who are you working with? I said, I'm not working with anyone. She's like, what? She's like, well, teach me. And at the time, I was like, I don't want to teach you because I don't know what I'm doing. It doesn't matter. You're getting results. And I. I like to have mastery of something before I teach it. And I said, okay, fine. And I would like to say that she got results as good as mine, but she didn't. She got much better results because she didn't have to start at the beginning. She was starting from where, what I knew then. And I think in the first 60 days, she was featured in Forbes today, like 10 publications. She got several podcast guest spots. She got speaking opportunities, clients. And that's when I started thinking, wait a second. And I started teaching it as workshops. When we were, you know, in person, I started teaching it at a little business I had called Brand Camp. We were doing retreats, and it was always the fan favorite because no one knew that it could be so accessible to get visibility that was not social media.

Okay, let's dive into that for one second before we get into the four P's, which is so amazing. It's going to help you guys so much. Let's talk about, like, why media and when and when it's a fit, because there are parts of it that are. Are so important. There are parts of it that, yes, they're a little aged out, like, they're not really relevant anymore. And we'll tell you some, some reasons why maybe they are. And you still want certain parts of it. So let's talk about, like, media and being seen and why this is important. Like all types. Let's talk all types of brands and products.

Absolutely. So first is to understand that social media is not visibility if people are not seeing you outside of your following. And typically it's a very small percentage of your following. People think the social is visibility, but visibility is typically new eyes on your business. Social media is typically nurture, like your email list is nurture. Right. Unless, yes, if you go viral, but that's so hard to plan for. You can't really expect that to happen. And so what I realized quickly is visibility with media or with podcasting or speaking is typically in front of a new audience. And that's the goal, because you can be, you can have a tiny following, but do really well leveraging other people's audiences, right? As you're, as you're building your own. I mean, even when you're podcasting, you start out with your own podcast and you're like, you want a guest on other podcasts to bring people over to listen to yours, to help them follow you. So that was one. As I was like, okay, this is visibility. And I, and I didn't realize that going in all of these lessons and the things I'm sharing are what I realized as it was happening real time. I went, wow, I did this podcast and they happened to air stream it live. And I had 300 people opt in for my freebie that day, right? I'm like, what would it do? I mean, to, to have your email list grow by 300? That would be ads or, you know, something that the average person, the average service based business or small product based business, that's going to take them a long time. So I, I realized that and then the biggest thing was the way people perceived me, right, Is I had clients that were like, oh my gosh, I just told my friend that my coach was in, you know, women's health and they want to meet you or they want an intro. It's kind of like you think about, we go to like our hairstylist and I, I still pinned like your amazing, your amazing like, extension shot from the woman you go to. But I mean, because it's so pretty. But you think about your hairstylist and like, we all love our hair stylist, right? We all like an intimate relationship because they know everything and they touch our head. But if your hair stylist gets named like best colorist in oc, you're going to be even more likely to tell someone about her. And sure, yeah. And it justifies the rates. It's like the woman I see in Palo Alto because she does New York Fashion Week because she's a trainer for Aveda. Her rates are, I don't even want.

To tell you it is, right?

It is obscene. But guess what? She's fully booked out and it's, is there someone else down the street that charges a quarter of what she does? That's just a good probably, but it's the perception of the credibility from these outside sources. On social media, we're usually calling ourselves an expert. And when someone is introducing you on a podcast or on a stage or a publication is featuring you as an expert, it's third party endorsement so much.

Changes and so little changes. Like so much changes in terms of like, yes, you people start talking about you, you get credibility. You don't necessarily, just necessarily see the lift off that right away. You have to really utilize that lift. And we'll, we'll talk about that too. But let's get into the four P's because you have these four P's that are going to help us pretty much like be seen and help elevate everything that we're doing.

The one thing I also want to mention is this is all fun. Enneagram7 here. So that's like the enthusiast. There is a lot of good ideas that you're like, okay, that's working for so and so. And I know the statistics are great on it, but you don't want to do it. Everything that I'm sharing is fun. I mean, if you have any extrovert in you at all, or if you're just excited and like, who is not excited to talk about their business, right. Even if you are an entrepreneur, you love talking about it. And most of the time the challenge is finding people that want to hear about it. Right?

So true.

So here's like this is your ideal audience. They want to hear, they want to learn. And, and the other thing is that like I said, it's free. So everything I'm going to share with you can be done for free. That doesn't mean you always want to do it for free. You want to scale eventually, maybe, but there's no barrier of entry. And that's where I'm really passionate about being a gatekeeper. Gatekeeper remover is not that PR agencies are bad. And I actually have multiple clients that own PR agencies. It's that the average person, if they're not making $250,000 a year plus in their business, they'll never be able to afford priority.

It's so true. Yeah.

And I want to help someone that's starting out or at 50,000 get to 250. And I've seen that happen.

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I mean, even for me with a. Like, we're such a glossy. Is such a small company right now that it's like, we can't allocate those particular funds for pr because it's just. It's like, it doesn't make sense for us right now. So it, like, meaning the traditional pr, which can be absolutely crazy. Like, majority of PR is like nine grand a month. Oh, yeah, yeah. You don't sometimes way more than that. I've gotten quoted, you know, 20 grand a month, 25 grand by certain people, and I'm like, that's just. It's not feasible for small businesses at all. Like, it's not gonna be there until you have a giant company. So. But you need it. But you need these certain things. So, you guys, this is so important to learn because it does give a lot to more credibility. I'm telling you, when I. The first time I even got a magazine cover, I didn't quite realize what it did until, you know, a year later. But it was. It was what you said, Rebecca. It's what people are saying about you when you're being introduced. And it just. It gets people's attention. And that's when people are like, how do you get your foot in the door? There's a lot of things that go into it, but this is definitely something that when they're introducing you, it makes their ears perk up and go, oh, well, she got noticed by them. It must be someone I should be noticing as well. Well, okay, so four P's, First P. Go for it.

Let's talk about podcast, because we're on a podcast.

Great.

And it's one of my favorites. I have my podcast. I. I love podcasts for many reasons. So we'll go through a couple of them. So one is just podcast listeners, right? Something like 170 million households or Americans are listening to podcasts, which has been increasing every year. And it's also the household income of podcast listeners. If you look at the different platforms, TikTok versus Instagram versus LinkedIn, podcast listeners are more like LinkedIn. Like 100 to 150,000 average household income, where we think about how much time we can spend on Instagram trying to go viral is a 60,000 average household income.

Interesting.

So more than double. And this is one of the biggest things. 74% of podcast listeners actually engage to learn. So if you consider yourself a subject matter expert in whatever. Right. It can be a very specific niche. There is someone that is wanting to learn. The other other percentage, actually 47% say they want to learn for inspiration. So we'll talk later about the three eyes of impact anytime you're speaking. But this is the craziest part is more than half of podcast listeners have bought a product they've heard about during an episode, and that's from an advertisement that is not from what I call story selling, which is selling never. And I, I will say never sell on someone else's platform. You should never do that. But it's more of like, are you selling them on who you are on your expertise and ideally moving them to the next stage of you following you on either social media or opting in for something that you're giving away.

Okay, so with this, before we go on to the next p, I do want to say, because there are people who are like, like, okay, that sounds amazing. You have something called the profitable podcast guest. Tell me what that is and why you started it. Because I'm like, okay, I might actually need this too, because I'm going on so many podcasts. I just need like the little tweaks to make sure I'm capturing the eyes. Because I can't tell you, Rebecca, how many times I've gone on a podcast and been like, did I make sure to capture that audience? Like, did I go on with intention or did I just go on to answer questions? So let's chat. Yeah.

So I'm going to tell a story here.

Okay.

And this is going to get you to pay attention again. I did this and I realized after the fact that's, that's where all the things I realized. I'm like, oh, wow, this worked. And then I look at. I'm like, what Worked really well. So I had one podcast guest spot. Sometimes some podcasts, like, air to their Facebook groups if they have a Facebook group, or sometimes they are live. So this specific podcast host was airing it live to a Facebook group. So I think there were. I don't know there were a few thousand people in the Facebook group. Now, that does not mean they were all looking at it right then. And they had advertised on an email. So there were a couple of hundred people over the 24 hours from the time it was recorded that watched it based on the views. Okay, so just want to give you those analytics. That podcast, I tracked $47,000 of business in one week too.

Wow.

And this is not a big podcast, so a little truth talk, because I think a lot of people make money claims, especially in the only business, and I want to make sure the math adds up. So I did. The episode was 45 minutes. It took me about 15 minutes to pitch it for. So let's say it was an hour. 340 people listened over that 24 hours. And I reached out to the host. I think there was about a thousand downloads in the first month. That's not a lot.

No way.

Right? That's. That's like, my podcast gets more. Yours gets like million times more. That's not a lot. So this is a smallish podcast. 104 listeners followed me on social the first day. And here's what I did. This is where we say, like, you have to still do the work.

Yeah.

Whenever someone followed me, it was a podcast related to, like, health coaching. It was for aspiring health coaches or health coaches. So anytime someone followed me that I could tell looked like they were probably a health coach, I just had a little custom message. I sent them. This is before mini chat, and I basically invited them into a masterclass I was doing at the time. Out of the 104, 17 registered for the masterclass, eight of them showed up live and four became clients that week at around a $7,000 price point, which was 28K. And one of them joined my mastermind, which was 19K at the time. That would have never happened if I hadn't provided value. But I think so many entrepreneurs are providing value. They're just providing it in the wrong places.

Okay, so you went on with intention, though. Like you told a story. You had an idea of how you were to guide them and what you are going to do. So where do people go wrong when they go on podcasts? And how can we make sure? Give us a couple tips even if we're not getting the profitable podcast guest, which you guys should go and get anyway, but give us a couple tips on how we can go on these podcasts with intention.

So let's talk just about when you show up on the podcast, and I'll give Tips about how to get on the podcast and not be one of the spammy people that I get. And I'm sure you get so many of. So I call this the three eyes of impact. And by the way, this is great for podcasts, but it also works if you're speaking on stage. It works if you're doing a workshop anytime that you are showing up as like an expert. So the first is information. You have to give away some of the good stuff. It can't be all hype, hype, hype. Like, you need to give away real value. And I like to think about this as if someone never followed me, never saw me again. Like, they just listened to this episode. Could they walk away feeling like I was served value by Rebecca? So you want to make sure the answer is yeah. So give some of the how to know. Often I think we're told, like, keep the how to tell them the what and the why. But, like, all the how to is behind a paywall. And I'm a fan of like giving people how to. What they're paying for with the paywall is proximity and probably higher level resources. The second is inspiration, and that's belief. So this can be done by, like, I'm telling you some of my stories. It's telling stories or giving examples. The reason I like to use stories that aren't just yours, as the expert is if someone is listening, let's say they're listening to you, Lori. Even though you are so real and so authentic and so down to earth, it's really easy for them to put you on a pedestal. But if you're sharing a story of someone that's closer to where they're at, it's going to bridge that gap. And the goal with inspiration is not just to motivate them, but really that they're like, okay, I think I can do this right, and I'll give you a story here. One of my clients, Erin, is such a sweetheart. She's such an introvert. She is like, don't ever. I don't want to do podcasts. She joined my program just to learn how to do media. She's like, if I can get some logos, I'll feel good. And she literally, the first podcast she ever pitched was and got on was Natalie Jill's. Her first podcast was like 10,000 plus downloads on our first episode. Like, this was a person terrified of public speaking and she did not die. Okay? And she did a great job and it gave her the confidence. So giving that example of someone who is not an Intro or extrovert who's not a polished speaker that they can show up and do it. And by the way, she got clients from. It is really important. So inspiration, belief, and you do that through storytelling. The third, and this is so important, and I think it's the thing that so many people miss is the integration or implementation. So what are you giving them that they can then take and get into action on? Because even if I taught everyone listening everything I know about media and visibility and how to actually monetize it, even if I gave you every story that you could believe it, life is going to happen. And if I don't give you a tangible step that moves you into action and momentum, you probably aren't going to keep going. So those are the three things, and that is how you can show up. And if you do those three things, it's going to be a great episode. Someone's going to have learned. They're going to feel feelings, and they're going to have something that they can actually do when the episode's over.

How do you feel about, like, having freebies and different things like that to get them opted in while you're on there?

So I think that's very important, and that's part of. I call it my profit method for. For podcasting. However, I think a lot of people do it poorly.

So.

And this is freebies in general is. Yeah, the freebie needs to not be some, like, random thing that you designed two years ago that was where you were going. It needs to be where. Where.

Where you were.

It needs to be where you're going, going. So I actually am a fan of having a few different ones based on your expert topics. Right. And you shouldn't wait till the very end be like, oh, here's where you grab my thing. Because most people are already tuning out. They're like, they're doing other things. It needs to be in the episode where you're delivering massive value, and it needs to be a next step to taking that value further.

Yeah, I noticed just, you know, through 1100 episodes, the people who do it the best. The people who do it the best on my podcast to, like, capture my audience for whatever they're talking about are the ones who. It's a part of what they're already talking about. So kind of literally, you guys, you can, like, we're. We're opening all the curtains, pulling back all the curtains for you today. Like, what we're doing right now, you're talking about podcast. It's one of your four p's. And then you have something to offer through it. Like, so people will go and we'll put this in show notes. They are literally going to go and look at the show notes because we talked about it and it was like it, the, the giveaway or the freebie needs to be a part of the answer and it's just an extended piece of the answer that people are looking for. So I've noticed that whenever people, you know, like if they get a lot of opt ins from my podcast, it's typically, typically because if someone came on who's like a marriage expert, they're talking about, they're like. And so I actually built a, you know, a freebie on this so you guys could really go in depth with it. But the things I, I point out in that guide that I'm giving you that are in the we'll put it in the show notes is this, this, this. So they teach on what is in that particular freebie as well.

But, and then ideally they share a story of what someone did with that. So I, I'm a big fan of calling it a listener gift. Again, we're dealing with behind the scenes, like, you know, curtain. So if I was you, normally I'd say like, oh, and I actually have a gift for your listeners, Lori, and let me tell you what it's for. So, so I'll tell you all mine, mine. I mean I've got a couple but the one that I really love and I mean it's resulted like over 6000 downloads and opt ins is called the Irresistible 4 in 1 pitch templates. And it's how to pitch to podcast publications, TV and speaking. It's my, it's my four, my four Bs, right? And I had a client and I love her. She came in and she's like, I don't think this is going to work. She's like, I don't think, like, I think what you're teaching is fluff. And I was like, okay, game on. I'm like, listen, like, try me, right? And she used a pitch template. And I typically tell people if you do a good job and you follow the process and the profitable podcast guest, you should book a third of podcasts. Because I like to be realistic, she booked nine podcasts in an hour and those nine podcasts led to over five figures of business. And I'm like, I'm so glad that you proved me, you know, that I proved her wrong, but in the nicest way. So, so it does work. And, and I'll even Give like a little extra for anyone that downloads it. I don't want it to be shelf help. That is like sitting with all your other opt ins and freebies, you know, in some email folder. Take it down. You can literally just copy mine. You can, you can tweak it for yourself and pitch me my emails. You're going to get an email from me with it. So it's Rebecca cafiero.com. if you pitch me, here's what will happen. Best case case you get to be on my podcast. Second is I will give you some critiques about what you could improve. The worst case is you hear nothing back. There's no rejection because no one ever responds. No, they only respond yes or nothing.

That's so true. Okay, I love this. You guys go check that out. It is in the show notes. There you go. We taught on it and we did it. Okay, let's move into publications.

All right, so publications are like old school PR and there are strategies of how this is visibility. But I'm really honest with people. I'm like, listen, getting you in a publication will probably lead to nothing in sales. Nothing. Nothing. I mean, we talked about that. Listen, Laura, if you get anyone buying glossy from this, that's going to be a bonus. But let's talk about what it does do, right? Is it is the credibility of the being seen in or featured in or mentioned in. So it's, you know, whether it's on your website or on your social media or in your bio having those name brand recognition media outlets, people just assume that you are an expert. And I am, I'm going off the assumption that everyone that's listening who has a business is an expert in their space. This is not about pretending that we're anyone that we're not. But you think about it, you're going to hire a trainer, right? And you're looking at like, you know, Yelp or wherever and they've got similar ratings or you go to their website rights, they could have the exact same, you know, certifications, pedigree, they could have the same type of results. They can offer similar types of programs. But if you see that one of them's been featured in Women's Health and Women's Fitness or Refinery 29 or you know, Forbes Health, you're gonna say, wow, okay, she's really good. Because she would only be featured in these publications if she knew what she was talking about. She is an expert. And not only are you more likely to select her, you're more likely to pay her extra for her expertise. So I like to look at publications for a few different things. For someone in a service based industry, it's going to validate their rates, it's going to differentiate. It makes conversion easier. For product based, same thing. Because there's a lot of products out there. Right. And for a lot of businesses. I'm in Silicon Valley and so often I'm working with founders who are doing additional raises of capital. And it's one of those like subliminal things on a deck that if you've already gotten, you know, ideally you've also like made money. But if you've already gotten media exposure, it looks really good to angel investors or venture capitalists. So it just, there's, there's no way that it hurts you. And if you get published in something you don't like, you just don't use the logo.

Totally. I love that. And you guys, you know when you go to people's sites and it's like featured in xyz, all of these things, I am more likely to buy something if I see that it's been picked up by all those things, like whether it's a beauty product or whether it's a supplement. I'm like, okay, well this feels way more legit than this other one that doesn't have any of these on here. And it bridges the trust. Yes, absolutely. And also it says something about that person that they took the time to make this impression important enough to go and get those things. Like that they, you know, I think of that even now, especially in the product world. I'm kind of like, oh, like you really? They put an effort to make sure they are seen and they, you do have to do a lot more work to be somebody who is picked up by those people in outlets because they don't want someone who doesn't look credible for them either. So I just know that more effort went into that product or that thing when I see those logos. Absolutely.

And if you are seeing someone on social media and it has a little, you know, seen in, what it gets you to do is spend an extra six seconds looking at whatever it is. Right. It, it really is buying us more time. And the other thing is, logos are evergreen, so you could have been featured once, but you can use those versus again, highlight reels or some of the other things that are. So you're hoping it gets you, you know, it gets you eyes on you for 24 hours or 48 hours or. I was listening to your podcast with Jenna Kutcher. It might be months, but like A logo you can use forever.

That's so true. Okay, Any last piece on publications, I.

Think the biggest thing is that don't feel like you're not ready. That's one of the biggest things I get with my clients is they're like, well, I just don't know if I have enough experience. So really diving into what makes you unique and how. And I think you hear that and people are like, I don't know. So I like to look at what are the areas that I'm an expert. So for me, it's visibility, it's business growth. And then the third one is like life optimization. I'm like a life optimizing nerd. And underneath that, I'm like, okay, well, within those, what are the subcategories that I could talk about on a podcast or, you know, I would create social media content on. And then you get into like, really what is niched about you. And it's really important if you're pitching. And by the way, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you the best resource out there for everyone that is free. It's like a dating site for journalists and sources or experts. But don't be vanilla. And this is the same on social. It's the same in your email marketing. This doesn't mean try to be controversial, but I'll give another example. I had a client who was doing some pitching for free. And when I say pitching, I'm not talking about writing up an article and sending it to some editor at a scary magazine magazine. I'm talking about going to a website where 100,000 reporters are and producers. And they are, when they have an article that they're working on, they're like, hey, I'm looking for this type of expert to share this. And you can give them bullet points that they will quote you. They actually don't even talk to you. I've been featured hundreds of times now. I think I've had three interviews ever that weren't through email. It's like, you don't have to get out of your zoom outfit, right? And, and so when I told her I was, I looked at her pitches. I'm like, these are so vanilla. They're so basic. It's like the first thing that any person off the street would say. And so I said, you're kind of. She's kind of snarky. I'm like, be a little snarky. Be your personality. Like, if you're funny, be funny. If you're optimistic, be optimistic. But like, be yourself with a professional, you know, polish. The next pitch that she did, the question was, what is the best time of day to work out? And you think about what are the obvious answers. First thing in the morning, right? No excuses. Or at lunch, or whenever you can fit it in. That's basically it. And her answer was, again, she took a stance. It has nothing to do with the time of day. You should be working out around your cycle. She got picked up not only in that publication, but then that reporter started going back to her anytime they were talking about hormones. She ended up getting nine publications and was named number one trainer in North America by that first publication. She didn't even have to pitch for it.

That's so good. Okay, one last thing I want to say about publications is so many people, if they're not using it once they get it. Let's, let's chat about that quick. Because I watched so many girls in my arena and fitness get covers of magazines and they didn't know how to use them. Like, they didn't use them in other pitches for, for speaking. They didn't put them out on their social media. They didn't include them in their email. So I'll just give an example and hopefully people can start to see themselves in it as well. Like, if I were to get a cover today, I mean, I did a really good job of it back then, but something I would do would be like, I would throw a party for like a release and I'd invite people and we would like have the magazine everywhere and I'd take my own pictures and make my own media. And then whenever I would put that up on my website and write a little blurb about it, I'd send it out in a newsletter. I would put it up on my social. I would continue to always do like a throwback on my social of like that one time I got the fitness cover, blah, blah, blah. Like, you need to continue to make it come alive in order to make that media really, really work for you.

100%. I call it social proofing. And so it's, you know, I put this in my email signature. You never know who's going to see your email signature. Read about me in the recent article in Blog Blank. A thousand percent media, whatever form, speaking, podcasting, publications, like all of it is so incredible for content because you can pull a quote out for carousels, right? You can have a reel. If it's a speaking engagement or a podcast or tv, I mean, you can. There's just so many different ways to use it. You can literally ask ChatGPT, how can I reuse this media feature? But you need to talk about it. It needs to be in your, you know, your, your bio on social media and, and as you get bigger publications, put the bigger ones there. But in the beginning it might be like, hey, I was in this like little local one. And then it's bigger and bigger. But talk about it. And to your point, there's no expiration. So I tell my clients, listen, when you've got a couple of wins, I want you to share those every week because only 3% of your audience saw it anyway. And then as you get new ones, you can rotate those in. You can have an as seen in highlight reel, you can have a nas seen it on your website and absolutely update your bio. Bio, your professional bio. And a lot of people tell me, well, I don't have a bio. If you don't have a bio of who you are today, you're probably not even putting yourself out there or energetically like putting yourself in the frequency of opportunity where you would have a bio that needs to be read.

So good. Okay, let's move on to presenting.

It's my favorite. So this is speaking on stages. You could also do tv, right? What's beautiful about this is it. It's usually great video. And yes, there's a lot of people that can sit behind their desk and be featured in media because they're typing information. You people can podcast. Like, you don't have to be outgoing to podcast because it's an intimate conversation. But there's a different level of authority when you are on TV or you're speaking. And I heard a quote years ago, which I will amend because it was she or he who holds the mic, makes the money, I would like to say makes the impact because it's your chance to like put the microphone to your message. You are seen as an expert when you are that person that is like in three dimension talking. But I will share in presenting. Right. TV. I feel like everyone's like, TV's the top. I am about every month a guest on a national business show and they're in 40 million households. I don't know that I've ever had a client from them. Wow. Ever. I know for product based it's better for lower, you know, lower price points.

Point.

But I've done the show, you know, dozens of times and here's what I do do with it. I put it on my social for my reels. Right. I will put it out in an Email newsletter. I utilize that coverage to continue to show myself as an expert or, you know, an expert in that niche in whatever I'm talking about. But my favorite is speaking. Speaking like real in time. So obviously on a stage, if you can. Not everyone can always do that with travel. Today I spoke to a Mastermind group of 20 women on Zoom. And it's because you can fake it for 60 seconds. Like, social media is not real. Obviously some people are much more real on social. But when you're speaking on a podcast, let's say for 45 minutes or doing a keynote or TV, maybe less though, because of sound bites, like, you get the real you. People feel your energy, right? You're. They're seeing you, they're feeling you. Like, it's as many of the senses as are engaged. And I have found that speaking specifically is the highest conversion, especially for thought leaders or service based businesses as well as product based businesses. So I recommend everyone get out there and like, think about what stage can I be on? Even if it's a virtual stage. And if you're like, well, how do I apply to be on a stage if I've never been on one? Because media begets media. Or visibility. Because visibility. Go hire your photographer. When you're doing a brand shoot, get a peer space, which is like Airbnb, but you can rent a room and get photos of you. You can do a speaking role without actually ever having keynoted.

This is so huge. We were, we just did a mastermind with a bunch of my girlfriends and one of them is like an incredible speaker. And she was like, I just want to be getting more speaking gigs. And I was like, when I go to your Instagram page, I don't see you speaking. So how do other people know you're speaking like that you want to speak? And because she was asking me like, how do you get all of these speaking things? I'm like, they think I'm, they see me as a speaker because I have a reel every other week with me on a stage. So they're like, if she's on a stage, she must be getting booked on stages. Like, someone has already done the homework for us. Yes, she's a speaker. Great. She can speak. And honestly, it's like one of the easiest hacks that you can do is just constantly show yourself on a stage to get booked on stage.

And just like with your own stage.

Oh, make your own. Absolutely. Create your own stages. And in the beginning, I did create my own stage. Rebecca was like, the Bliss Project. That's How I started getting booked on other stages is they're like, well, if she made her own stage and people come, then she must be okay on a different stage, because it's. That is a tough thing to break through for people. It's like, well, if I don't speak somewhere, then how do I get the opportunity to speak? Well, create the illusion of speaking and make sure they hear you speak. Like, or have a podcast where they hear you. They have to hear what you do. So even if you're faking it on a stage, but they hear that you're good, then that's going to be the thing that pushes them over the edge in that position.

So.

Or making that decision.

I mean, and a little thing we do for a lot of our clients when they haven't been on a stage where we have, like, actual footage or they've been on the stage, and sometimes the footage is terrible. So bring your own videographer if you can. Is if you've been on a podcast and you cap. You've got sound bites that can be pulled, then you can have those. We call it B roll. Right where you're. You're not actually speaking, but like you're holding a mic against a white wall and you're. You're acting like you're speaking. And that can be turned into a speaking reel with clips of that with your voice over. Because it's obviously you're not. It's not a voiceover. As well as the podcast clips, I had about 80 speaker applications last year for a weekend at the Pitch club, and I will tell you what stood out. Yes. If someone had a speaker reel, it showed me they were taking it seriously. I know. Okay, they're going to show up. Well, even if it wasn't the best reel, some people sent me, like, Instagram reels, which is okay because it shows me they're speaking, but I would like to hear their voice. So it's like, do a podcast spot with a speaking reel. But I had one woman that blew me out of the water. I didn't know who she was, and I let her open up my VIP night because she sent me a personalized video. She's like, hey, Rebecca, this is Sarah. I can't wait to serve your woman. We get at the Pitch Club, it was like two minutes, and I was just so blown away by her creativity. So if you don't have the experience, at least get creative.

I love that. All right, let's go into Power Partners, our final p. Yes.

So Power Partners is not theoretically related to Media. So this is, this is like my old school fact that I got started in my career 22 years ago now. So when I was selling real estate, I would think about like, okay, how am I going to use my time if I have five homes to sell in my new home development and I could call 25 prospects that were in my lead bank or I could call five realtors who are each working with five clients and I was number one sales in the year for a massive company. I mean, I think I sold 155 homes that year because I leveraged working with other agents. I had one agent that brought me 47 clients over two years. And that's what power partners are in business. So I'll give you a few examples. Examples. Think about who serves the same audience as you but does not compete with you. Like they're a step before you in the journey or a step after. So they're usually who your clients are. Like, hey, after I work with you, what do I do? So for a service based business, if someone's a interior designer, it's like, what's the architect, the landscape designer, the moving company? If you are a health coach, maybe it's a business coach. If you're a business coach, it's a health coach, a life coach, a therapist, a financial planner, you know, all of those things. Because you could package yourself as a toolkit and give a better client experience and you could get so many referrals. So I mean, I have a seven figure business and I would say we've ran a little bit of ads, but about 90% of our business revenue, about 70, 65, 70% comes from visibility and the rest of it comes from power partners, straight referral roles. And most of the times they're not sales calls, they're fitting calls. They're like, you already know about me. You know, I've heard, you know you've heard about me. And they convert so much, so much better. And it's just a smoother process. You don't have to sell yourself. So find a power partner. And I mean for product base it would be what other types of businesses offer something that, that avatar that cares about gut health, right? Cares about their skin. Like maybe it's a really clean skincare product. Product. And you're like, yeah, we're gonna hit you on both ends, right? Or maybe it's like, okay, this, this is a woman that cares about her body. She's going to be working out. Maybe it's someone that does like athletic wear and they can package it in, like, their bundles. So want to think about, like, where could my business not necessarily be actually bundled, but where could there be leverage from businesses? And the other thing just about this is business is lonely if we don't create a community around us. And so I want you to think about this as a way to, like, work with people you really enjoy. And I mean, in January, I went on a trip to Mexico with, like, seven women that we called it a business trip. It was a lot of fun. And four or five of those are my power partners. We refer tons of business back and forth, but understand you have to refer to get it back. I refer about a million dollars a year in business, and I know that's a big reason why I get a large amount back.

It's such an important piece for anyone and everyone. And I think that collaboration, it's going to be, you know, you have to try, like, trial and error as well. Some people are going to reciprocate, some won't. Don't waste your energy on worrying about the people who don't, and just keep trying to find those, like, perfect fits in being really upfront with, like, what the expectation is from the start. I think having those, like, really real honest expectation conversations when you do kind of do these different partnerships and things. But it is so powerful. And like you said, it's so much more fun. Like, it is so much more fun. Way better. It's like consumers want to consume. You're not gonna be in any sort of lax situation if you're sharing with someone else who has a complimentary product that's not the same. So.

And often you're actually saving your clients time and money because if you think about. If they have to, like, they finish with. With you. So I'll say brand photographer. Someone's getting their brand photos done when they're about to get their website redone or they're, you know, they need a copywriter. If you don't refer someone that you know works really well with you, that is complimentary to, like, your vision and your. The way that you do business, there's a chance they're going to go out and have a negative experience. And I learned this because I was like, I don't want to be the hub for five different people with all of these different ideas that may tell my clients something that doesn't align with what I'm sharing, and they're going to be confused on strategy. So I think it's just. It's so helpful.

All right, Rebecca. So if anybody's Asking themselves right now. They're listening. This all sounds super great, but they're like, I don't necessarily know how to put, like, who I'm going to be known for out there.

How do we figure that out? This is a super easy question answer. And I will say I also dealt with this often. We're like, well, I could talk about all these things, but what I really want to be known for. So I recommend going to your Instagram and you can look at your analytics. Go where you can see how many people saved a post, right? So if you've created something that's shareable, it's usually like a carousel, it's a quote. But if it's something that they want to come back to, they're going to save it. So go look through all of your save statistics. And maybe a year and a half or two years ago, I had one that was about how do I get out of overwhelm in 10 minutes or less? And it was super scrappy. Like, I wrote it and because I was dealing with overwhelm, and I'm like, how do I get out of this? And I'm like, oh, that really worked. And so I shared it. I had something like 289 saves. It was wild. And what that told me in a lot of comments, but it was more saved. Sometimes people don't engage in comments, but they're like, oh, I love this. So that turned into a podcast episode on my podcast. Plus I've talked about it on a lot of other podcasts. It's one of my favorite things. I'm not talking about visibility. I've talked about it on TV multiple times. I've talked about it on stages. I now have a lead magnet around it. So look at where you've created content that people are really interested because if they're interested in reading about it there, they'll want to read about it somewhere else.

Okay, that's so amazing. All right, so you guys, she's got two things that if you're like, I absolutely need to be figuring this out because this is huge for me. We have the profitable podcast guest is one that's in the show notes. Then we have the Media Magnet, which tell the people. Give the people what they want. Tell me about the media.

The Media Magnet is a course that tells you how to get like, media on an ongoing basis. So first we dive into, like, how to get those logos now obviously, how to be seen as a thought leader, so how to pitch. And we also go into how to get features and I have never had someone go through it and actually do the work. You have to. You have to do it. It doesn't happen by osmosis and not get features. In fact, everyone that has gone through, and we're talking hundreds of people now have had a full feature. So it's so powerful. And now that will give you some of those logos and, and really that confidence that's going to get you ready for some of the bigger opportunities, the stages and, and the tv. We do go through TV as well, so we go through everything but podcast on it. And the biggest thing I talk about is how you actually make progress, profit from this. So my profit method, I'll give you the. The high, high notes is you've got a pitch. You have to put yourself out there. None of this works if you're not willing to. Relationship building is another really big one with reporters and journalists on how to become their best friend. I have one journalist that I met through a dating site. It's called Connectively. But I pitched her with bullet points. She published it. She reached out to me a few months later, said, hey, I'm writing another article. Would you like to be quoted? I said, absolutely. I sent her a box Fox after, because I was just like, thanks so much. She put me in US News and World Report. The article got like 130,000 views. So I sent her a little gift and we ended up becoming friends. I mean, I didn't buy her friendship, but we became friends. She introduced me to three TV producers. Most people don't know that the media world is so small and there's almost no staff reporters anymore. I was actually on with my media coach yesterday, prepping for this, and she writes for the New York Times, Cosmo, Shape. Like all of these different publications, most freelancers write from multiple publications. So if you are fast and responsive and pleasant to work with and you're really niched in your area of expertise, they'll keep coming back to you in multiple, multiple publications. So I teach all of that in the media magnet. And then of course, it's how do you utilize that, that credibility to increase your rate? So I actually walk through the business implications as well.

Something every business needs. I'm telling you, it's. It's huge for all the reasons that we talked about. Okay. I have loved this conversation. It's always such a good reminder for me. I have all my little notes. Rebecca. It's so, so selfish of me. And so the reason why I podcast is to have people on like you, who can, who can Help me get out in the world as well. And you guys, I hope that this really helped you and gave you a couple really tangible takeaways because she gave us so many things that we can integrate without having to do anything at all, let alone how much value I know her products add. And you also have a really great event called the Pitch Club that I got to speak at. Tell me about the Pitch Club.

Yes. So, well, the Pitch Club is kind of the umbrella that all this is under. And I like to say you can't pitch yourself if you don't believe in yourself, but sometimes we lose that belief. So the Pitch Club is here to, like, bolster you up. And so not only do we have those programs, but we have, you know, I have a mastermind and I have a group business coaching program. But it all comes together at weekend at the Pitch Club. This will be our fourth event and it is going to be in Scottsdale. September 13th and 14th, or 12th and 13th, 2024. If you're listening to this after, just check our 2025 date. And all of that's on my website@rebecca caffero.com. but the beautiful thing about the event is there's, there's a lot of strategy, there's a lot of soul care. I mean, I'm, I'm very much like, you have to be the human being breathing life into your business. So we make it really fun. But the other really unique thing that's different than other events I've been to is I have a lot of media there. So last year we had journalists there, we had producers there, we had podcast hosts there. Almost everybody walks away with either a contact or a win. Last year, Catherine, who was in the mastermind and Chris's mastermind with me, she connected with one of the, one of my other speakers who was a Forbes contributor, and it landed her in Forbes. And that was just because they built a relationship and they had a conversation so you could walk away with, you know, business, you could walk away with, with visibility. And most importantly, you're going to walk away with a lot of belief.

It's such a great event. The women in the room just literally blew my mind. Plus, I'm like, how are you all so fashionable? I was like, this is such a great looking room. What is going on? It was just the best, literally the best time with really, like the women added a lot of value. So you guys are not only going to get it from the stage, but you're also going to get it from the participants as well, which is so cool. All right, you guys definitely go check out all the show notes for all of this. Everything that we talked about is linked below. Rebecca, thank you so much for coming on. It's been so much fun just having you in our worlds for so long and I can tell you just like we have you in the room at the dinner series and so many people are so excited to meet you because of the value you help add to all of their businesses while they're in the room, which is so cool. You've just whatever room you've been in, people have talked about you and all the value that you bring. So it's so wonderful to have you on the podcast. You're such just a great human and I'm so grateful for you. So thank you so much for coming on and you guys definitely go check out the show notes and I'm so grateful for you as well. And until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone.