Persuasion Psychologist Dr. Robert Cialdini On The Yes Factor: Make An Impact, Win Customers, And Transform Your Business

If you ever go into a room where there's people that you don't know and you would like to be influential in that group, don't say to yourself, hmm, who can help me most here? You should say, whom can I most help here? After that, you have an advocate now you have somebody who's going to go to bath for you in that room.

Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the show.

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Are you like me?

I'm curious. I'm so curious. DM me afterward. Let me know your thoughts if you want to. On today's podcast, I had somebody who has actually left quite an impact on me. I've been talking about this podcast and the things that he's taught me. I've bought a couple of his books. I'm currently reading one of his books right now called called Pre Suasion, because this man is all about influence. Dr. Robert Cialdini is a thought leader in the field of influence. He spent his entire career conducting, testing, analyzing and publishing peer reviewed scientific research on what causes people to say yes to requests.

I don't know about you guys, but.

I want to know why people are buying. I want to know why people are saying yes to certain things. And I really want to dial that in because I know that if you're anything like me, you have poured your life and your time into wanting to make an impact. And if you have something, a product, a company, a message where you want to make an impact, it is really important that you learn how to market and you learn how to study these things so that you can understand why people are saying yes.

So that you can get people to.

Say yes to you.

So that they can get the products, they can get the impact, they can get the courses on the things that are going to change their life.

Right.

Like, why did you say yes to things? And you know, we just did a podcast with James Wedmore and he talked a lot about how your transformation starts with paying.

Right.

It starts with putting money down. It starts with saying yes and paying for something. So I think that's really important. And I think you're gonna love this podcast for so many reasons because he is going to help you learn why people say yes to requests. The results of his research and his articles in his New York Times best selling books have earned him an acclaimed reputation as a respected scientist and an engaging storyteller. He is known globally as the foundational expert in the science of influence and how to apply it ethically, which is so important in his businesses. His principles of persuasion have become a cornerstone for many, many organizations. You guys, this man is a genius and I can't wait for you to listen to the podcast. Let's dive in so you can learn.

All of the goodies. Here we go. Bob, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Well, thank you, Lori. I'm looking forward to it.

So we just found out that we share a Midwest upbringing.

Yes.

And also a sort of Phoenix, Scottsdale area. Living and going from the Midwest to, to living on the West. What would you say is like the biggest change in your life going from Midwest to now, living where you are?

Palm trees. When I was growing up in Milwaukee, the only palm trees I ever saw was during the Tournament of Roses parade for what was going on in la. And I always thought palm trees, geez, that's just not, that's not part of Me. And now there are palm trees in my backyard. I have palm trees in my life space, Lori.

This is so real. Let me tell you why. Growing up, palm trees were associated with, like, TV and Disneyland and, like, this mystical. It was almost like a mystical, magical place that kind of existed, but didn't really, for us, you know? And I just planted palm trees in my backyard in Scottsdale, and it was a very big deal for me. I was like, this is very exciting that I'm choosing to put palm trees in my backyard right now.

Well, congratulations.

But it was a real moment for anyone who doesn't understand. It was like, I'm a West Coaster. Like, I get it.

I'm a Western. Yeah.

Yes, it is. It is. I'm so grateful, though, for growing up in the Midwest. So with that, I just want to ask you, what is something that you're so grateful for about growing in the Midwest that you get to bring over to your west coast lifestyle?

The values.

Yeah, values.

What is.

What is? Like, two of the values that you.

You feel very strongly about conscientiousness and agreeableness. They live up to their word there.

Yes.

And they try to be accommodating. You know, I was once on a plane with a woman. She was living in Los Angeles. We were flying to Los Angeles, and she said, you know, I'm from the Midwest, and as soon as I started a family, I'm going to go back to the Midwest because of the values. So I guess you wouldn't want to raise a child in Los Angeles. She said, I wouldn't want to raise a guppy in Los Angeles. Different values. Different values.

Values. I remember when I. When I first moved to Santa Monica, I just remember thinking, well, there was a lot of things I was thinking, but I remember trying to make different relationships and friendships, and everyone was. It was like they wouldn't show up for the appointments. And I. I just remember thinking, instead of being upset about that, I said in my head, wow, it's going to be really easy to win here if I just show up. Like, if I just follow my word. And I have to be honest, like, I feel like I became very successful there because that was a rarity to, like, show up, say what you mean. And that work ethic that I was so grateful for being instilled from my dad in the Midwest, so.

And be true to your word.

Yes, absolutely. Which I feel like goes into so much of what you're known for. So I would love to know, just how did you start to become known as the person who talked so much about influence and persuasion. What was it about your life that made this topic so important to you?

Well, I'll tell you one incident and it was at the University of Wisconsin. I was a freshman, I was in a dorm. There was a knock at the door and it was somebody selling magazine subscriptions to Sports Illustrated. Now I'm a sports fan, but not enough that I want to spend the limited funds I had on a sports magazine every week. And I was about to say no, no thanks. And he said, well, let me tell you that it's the most popular subscription here in your dorm and all the best sports writers in the United States have voted it the best sports magazine in the country. And we have a limited time sale on it. And I bought his magazine even though I didn't really want it. And I remember thinking to myself, wait a minute, it was something other than the features of the offer that got me to say yes. It was the psychology of the way the offer was presented to me that got me to say yes. Isn't that interesting? I should find out. This would be something that would be worth learning about, investigating, focusing on majoring in and so on. And not just out of self defense, but also because I would think a lot of people would be interested in the psychological factors that you can put into a communication that lend themselves to yes, that incline people toward ascent to that recommendation or proposal or request, whatever it is. And so I made it my business to study this process systematically in in scientific ways.

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Okay, I love that because even when you said that I was like, oh, that's so good, I definitely would have bought that because the one that got me, which I'm sure is different for everyone. I'm curious which one like really got you. But for me it was the fitting in, like the tribal need to want to be able to like be within that group and survive and function and have things to talk about. Which one for you was it? Or was it all of them?

It was all of them. It was all of them. But I do understand that feeling of being one of not just being like. So if I were to say to you, say, oh, Lori is like us, that's one thing. If I would say, Laurie is one of us, that's an entirely different context for us to want to say yes to you and want to support you and want to advance your interests, you're one of us. It's not just similarity. It's something. It's shared identity. And that's one of the principles of influence that we call unity. Yeah.

What have you seen through this being one of your favorite ways that it is applied in the world? Like, because I know that you have taught this to so many people now. Millions of people have read your book. Where do you see it applied? Like, once people have read it or.

Done the work, where you're like, wow.

That has impacted more than I ever even imagined. Do you have examples?

Yes, sure. Of course, it's almost always in business settings, sales, marketing, advertising, but also in management and leadership. Because they have to be influential people. It's not just influencing outside of the organizational envelope. If you can influence so that people are all aligned inside of your organization, that's also going to be a very positive thing for your outcomes. So it's business. But then what we find is after we work with people in these or give presentations at their conferences and so on, they'll give us a call and say, you know, I tried this out at home. And it works on our relationships, too, because sometimes we're just not in agreement on something and it's a source of constant conflict. And if we can find a way to reduce that through the process of influencing one another to a common value that we can both agree on, then that really makes the relationship better.

Okay, so I think we should start with talking about kind of, what are those seven principles? Because you added a seventh one, right? The unity.

The one called unity. Yes.

Okay.

The first one is reciprocation, the idea that we all feel obligated to give back to others who have first given to us. So if somebody invites us to a party, we should invite them to one of ours. If somebody remembers our birthday with a card, we should remember theirs with a card, too. I mean, it's just a social obligation. You're supposed to do that. And it's true. In every human culture, we have very nasty names for people who violate that rule. We call them moochers, people without giving in return, or takers or ingrates or teenagers. And nobody wants to be labeled like that. So the implication is, if we go first, if we give benefits and advantages and information and value. People want to give it back to us. By a rule that was installed in them from childhood, we say yes to those we owe. So if we go first, people feel grateful and they want to give back to us. I'll give you a quick example. A study done in Southern California, a candy shop. For one week, researchers arranged for every customer who came in to be met by the manager warmly and then escorted to the candy counter or to be met by the manager warmly and given a small piece of chocolate and then escorted to the candy company. Those people were 42% more likely to buy candy.

Is this Surugi's? Because, damn it, I have bought so much of their chocolate because they give me a free chocolate.

Well, that it turns out it wasn't the chocolate. That is, if you look at the data people, it wasn't that, oh, I love this chocolate, I'm going to buy some more. Yeah, most of them bought something else. What they had been given it was that they had been given it was that they had received. So I always advise people to be first give first, stand on the balls of their feet to be ready to say yes to you when you would make a request of them. I always say so. If you ever go into a room where there's people that you don't know and you would like to be influential in that group, don't say to yourself, who can help me most here? You should say, whom can I most help here? After that, you have an advocate. Now you have somebody who's going to go to bath for you in that room. So that's the first one reciprocation.

That is so good. Let me ask you one question around that. So number one, I have totally obviously bought the candy. And yes, it was more out of like, they gave me something, now I have to pay. But my next question, you know, some people may take that and I've seen it used in like, okay, well, I gave you something and they expect something in return. What should our attitude be around doing that? So even though the law exists, I feel like sometimes when you expect it or you're like, well, I did this, so you need to do this. Like, it, it doesn't always get great results. So what's our attitude going in?

You're exactly right. So if you, if you do somebody a favor, right, and they say, thank you so much, Lori, that was above and beyond the call of duty. That was really great. You can't say, oh, yeah, and you owe me one now, sister. Right?

Right.

That's gonna fall apart. No, no, you can't do it. But you just have to give. And there will be, not for the reason of receiving, but there will be a side effect. There will be a downstream consequence of having given first, which is people will stand ready to give to you. What you can't do is to say in that moment after they've said thank you to you, oh, don't think anything of it. No big deal. Wasn't a problem. Would have done it for anybody. Just part of the job. I've heard that. I used to do that. I've heard it over and over. No, you did that thing. You really did. You don't want to diminish it or dismiss it or deny that it occurred. You want to say, here's what I'm going to recommend that you say to anybody who gives you that, of course I was glad to do it. I know if the situation were ever reversed, you'd do the same for me. So you've put it on the map. You don't kick it out the window as if it never happened. You actually did that. The process of reciprocation is about exchange. There has to be exchange or people will stop giving favors, Right?

Yes. Oh, my goodness. I've had this experience in life where. And I learned this from you. So I've now started saying what you just said that you recommended. And I feel like it's made a big difference because for a long time, I can think of one friend in particular. I just kept giving and giving and giving, and I realized that nothing was being exchanged because I was making it seem like it was of sheer joy, like, oh, I do this anyway. And I'm like, wait, this is actually very hard for me to do. And I kind of want you to.

Know that we have to be honest.

Yeah, totally. And so it changed the relationship in a good way, because it was like, I'm not just doing this in my sleep. This is actually taking me a lot of effort.

So I'm glad to hear that. Yeah.

I feel like it's become now more equal energy exchange. So that's really good. Okay, I'm so glad you mentioned that. Let's talk about the next one. Commitment. Consistency.

Yes. People want to be consistent with what they have already said or done, especially in public and especially in your presence. They don't want to be seen as saying one thing, doing another. They don't want to be seen as wishy washy and never staying true to what they committed themselves to and so on. So if you can ask people to take a small step in your direction, to make a small commitment in your direction, they will be significantly likely to be consistent with a much larger step that you ask them in order to be congruent. They want to see themselves that way and they want you to see them as that kind of person. So here's another. Here's a little study. This is done in Chicago. Restaurateur named Gordon Sinclair had a problem. No shows people who would call, book a table, and then they wouldn't appear. Listen to what his receptionist said when she would take a reservation. And she said, thank you for calling Gordon's restaurant. If you have to change or cancel your reservation, please call. Probably heard that a hundred times, right? He was a student of the influence process. Gordon was. And he said add two words, say not please call, but will you please call if you have to change or cancel your reservation? And then he asked her to pause. What would you say in the moment after you say yes, of course, Glenn. And that was the commitment.

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His restaurant dropped by 64% that day. Wow never went back up just because he gave people a chance to publicly and personally commit to wow. So I don't know if your listeners are in leadership positions. Here's what I would say. If you're ever in charge of a meeting where you have tasks or responsibilities to assign to people before they leave and then come back with those tasks completed by the next meeting, don't let anybody out of that room until you say, will you be able to properly complete this task before our next meeting? If the answer is no, that's good for you as a leader, you know, oh, I'll have to extend the time or give this person some resources or some assistance and so on. But if the answer is yes, I will now significantly increase the likelihood that people will come prepared for that meeting because they committed to it in public.

Oh, I love this. Okay, so could you give me an example in I'm trying to think about different times in my life when I realized this. For, like, no shows around sales calls, we have a lot of different people who do a lot of different whether it's showing up, maybe what. What kind of language could we use in our sales copy? Potentially. But then also on having them show up for a sales call instead of not doing any no shows.

Yeah. So you don't just say, could you give me a time? Right. And they might do that but then they might not show up for it.

Right.

You can say, will you be able to make that time? Or give me a call if you can't all say yes. And it's the yes that produces subsequent yeses. Give them the question, is this something that you'll be able to do conveniently? Right. They all say yes.

Okay. And that's trying to get to the commitment, like, whatever will make them commit and say, like a verbal yes, essentially to you.

Right. Remember, they don't do it anymore now, but when you went to a dentist's office or a doctor's office at the end, they gave you a card with the date and time of your next appointment on it. If instead of giving you a card with the date and time, they gave you a blank card and asked you to write down the date and time of the next commitment. No shows dropped by 17%.

Wow.

Because you've committed yourself personally to it. Everything you can do to get an action before they actually take the action that you're interested in, a smaller version of that will increase the likelihood of the next one.

Okay. I love this. All right. So your next one is social proof. Tell me about that one.

Social proof. This is the one that says that when people are uncertain and we live in what is probably the most uncertain environment that has ever existed on our planet, there's so much information, so much stimulation, so many choices, so many options that we're uncertain about what's the right step to take in many of the situations. And one place we look to reduce our uncertainty is what are our peers doing? What are those around me like me doing if they're all raving about a new restaurant or a new film or a new piece of software that reduces my uncertainty, that this would be a good thing for me to do as well. So simply telling people what others like you have done. Like, I don't know. I think I took. I learned that you were in financial services for a while.

My husband was.

Okay. If he were to say to the. Most of the people who have family businesses choose to take this route to financial security. Now, they are more likely to say yes to that route because other people like them have chosen that route. There's a lovely study in the city of Louisville, had a problem with people who would get traffic tickets and they wouldn't pay on time. And all they had to do when they sent the letter to these people is honestly say the majority of Louisville residents do pay their tickets on time. They doubled. They doubled revenues for one sentence. Just telling people what Most others like them see as the right thing to do.

Yeah, that is so powerful. And I'm thinking of the different. I've been very influenced by different things like that. Buying courses, buying books, like seeing certain types of people post about it, or in different sales copy. When they show different pictures of people, like people that I identify with, oh, they came from this and they did that and got this result, I can identify with that person. That makes sense. This is for me. So I'm thinking of people who are listening to this whole, maybe have something that they're launching that they don't necessarily have that proof from yet. But as people come in, they can kind of start celebrating those different people coming in and showing the social proof of who's purchasing.

That is a brilliant insight because it fits with the newest research on social proof. Suppose you have something new, a new product or service, or you're a startup and you, you have some, some compliance, you have some sales, you have some agreements signed, contracts and so on, but not a lot show the trend. The trend is crucial because people project the trend into the future. If you just say 30% of our customers have chosen our new. This new product or this new enhancement or whatever it is, new feature, that's a statistic. 30%. If you say when we started last year it was 15%, right, that's a change. But changes go up and down. People go in one direction or they, and then they stay flat or they go back down the other way. But if you say one year ago it was 15%, six months ago it was 25%, now it's 30%. You get significantly more people to join than either of those other kinds. Because three data points represent a trend. One is a statistic, two is a change, three is a trend. And people project trends into the future. So what you've actually got now is future social proof. The idea that there will be a lot of people doing this in the future. I should get in on the ground floor.

Okay, I love this. I'm just thinking about some of the. I shop off of a very popular website that is now worth billions and billions of dollars. This particular company. And I like to follow their sales trends because they're crushing it. So I'm always like, what are they doing? It's so interesting. And recently they've started, like, really putting, like, bestseller. This one's going fast, this one's going fast. And to cut the noise, what do I do? I'm like, well, these must be the most popular things. So let me look at these And I'm going to pick this because this must be the new trend. So it's so interesting just putting those words. Do you know any research or anything around even just putting words like that on.

So in China. So this shows you the cross cultural reach of this. If restaurant managers put on the menu little asterisks next to certain of the items, one skyrocketed in choice. What did the asterisk stand for? It wasn't this is the specialty of the house or this is the chef's choice for this evening. It was these are our most popular dishes. Just labeling them as popular made them more popular for their popularity. We all have most popular features, we have most popular models, most popular payment plans. Just tell people what's the most frequently chosen for people like them and they're more likely then to stop dithering on the fence and choose.

And it might be because that's what they want to make money on or they need to get rid of these amount, whatever it is. But I see it, I actually see it as a favor to me as the consumer, even though sometimes that's probably not the intent. But it narrows my decisions sometimes on a very large menu or on a large website. So it's interesting, some people might be thinking is that a good thing to do? Is that a bad thing? But I, and ultimately I feel like it narrows decisions and it's if as.

Long as it's honest, which it was in these pop. In these Chinese restaurants they just labeled something true, this is our most popular. And they became. And sales went up.

So doing the simplest thing like that on our sites could, could make such a difference. I love that. Okay, our next one. Liking.

Liking. Nobody in your audience would be surprised to know we prefer to say yes to those we like. No surprise. But there are two small things we can do that increase the rapport that people feel with us before we ask them to move in our direction. One is to point to genuine similarities that exist between us because people like those who are like them. And there was a study done of negotiators if they passed information back and forth before they started the negotiation. The number of successful negotiations where both sides were able to come to an agreement, a mutual agreement, went up dramatically. Well, what was the information that they passed back and forth? It was information about themselves, what are their hobbies, what are their interests, what are their family situations, and so on. And when the researchers looked at it, it wasn't the amount of information, personalizing information that they sent. It was whether inside that information There were commonalities. Oh, you're a runner. I'm a runner. You're an only child. I'm an only child. Was that common? Those connections that caused people to give one another grace in the bargaining process, and they came to significantly more mutual agreements.

This makes so much sense to me. I, you know, when I first got into sales, I didn't understand. It's like, I was naturally good in some areas, but didn't understand how that was naturally happening. But now that I've learned so many different things, this has always been something for me that, like, when even when I first talk to you, I'm always looking for, what's our thing? Where's our thing? Like, how are we alike? Where are we going to connect? Over.

Yes.

And it opens up this beautiful. I do podcasts all the time. So in the beginning, I take 10 minutes to be like, where's our common thing? How can we connect? And that truly has been one of the most powerful things for me in everything that I have done is just taking that five minutes to, like, figure out where your commonality is.

You know, people say to me, I don't have time for the small talk. You know, I don't have time. I want to get down to business. It only takes three minutes.

Yeah.

Before we started this, we located. Oh, yeah, we have a commonality and we live and where we grew up and so on. You just three minutes, and you get skyrocketing results from that. Feel a bond, and they like dealing with people who are like them. Yeah.

So true. Okay, so for. Because I think there's a line, though. Have you ever been with those people who won't stop talking and you're like, oh, my God, this just went from what could be awesome to like, this is way too much.

Right.

Is there any advice around that?

Yes. Stop at the commonality. Don't. Just asking. People asking. Tell me, what about this? What about commonality? And stop there and ask for, oh, really? So am I. Isn't that nice? And spend a minute on that and go on to your purpose.

Love that advice. Okay, next one. Authority.

Authority. Remember I said that we live in a very uncertain world, and people are looking for ways to reduce their uncertainty before they step forward and buy or agree or choose. And we said that their peers, what their peers are doing is one of the ways they can do that is to see what the authorities on the topic are saying. What are the experts saying here? That can also reduce my uncertainty as to what is the right thing to do. So there are Two ways to act in this. One is to show that you are expert with your credentials and your background and your experience, but you can't do it face to face. Don't try to do it face to face. Even if that's true about you. You come off like a self promoter. Right. You have somebody else introduce you in that situation or you send that information ahead in your Resume or your LinkedIn information and so on. So people know that about you ahead of time and they want to say yes to people who are genuine authorities. So we certainly need to make them aware of that. Now the other thing is to get testimonials from people who are widely acknowledged experts in that particular arena. And we search for and recruit those comments and put them at the start of our communication on your website. They should be first. They shouldn't be delegated to some page where you can press and see what others have said about me. Right. Or about my company or my idea. Right. Those testimonials should be there early, before you even begin, so that that authority aura infuses the first sentence of your message. Everything is infused with that authority aura. Right. That's what I would recommend. Get those testimonials. And by the way, advertisers will frequently advise you just put the best testimonial in there, the one that you're proudest of, because the others will dilute it because they'll be weaker. That's not what the research shows. The research shows the others will validate the best one. Okay. Give it confirmation. So the research is very clear on this. Multiple authorities out distance, a single authority, even the best one.

So good to know. Okay, the next one is scarcity.

People want more of those things they can have less of. Yep. So if you can honestly tell people, remember I'm always saying, honestly, always, what things are truly there for you. If you can honestly say, describe something that's unique or uncommon or rare about what you have to offer. Sometimes it's not one thing, but it's a combination, a suite of features that nobody else can offer. Nobody else has put together this kind of package of features of what we can offer. Right. That's something that people will want because they can't get it elsewhere. People don't want to lose valuable opportunities and you can tell them about things that they will miss. Benefits, advantages, positive experiences. So there was a study done in, in Northern California. Researchers asked people if they would be willing to insulate their home fully. Right. And half of them were told, we've done an audit and we can see that if you insulate your home fully, you will be able to gain a dollar a day every day. The other half of the people were told if you don't insulate your home fully, you will lose a dollar a day every day. 150% more people insulated their home under loss instructions than gain instructions. It's the same dollar, a dollar a day, every day. Either you lose it or you gain it. And it was gaining that dollar, losing that dollar, that was more. Because loss is the ultimate form of scarcity. It means you can't get it anymore. You don't get it. So one of the things we can do is honestly tell people not just what they will gain by moving in our direction. I'm not saying don't say that, but I'm also saying, and you wouldn't want to forego those, you wouldn't want to miss those benefits and advantages. Yeah, no.

It's so powerful. And any transformation that I've had on my own, it's really been focused on the pain of what's not going to happen or the loss of unlived life purpose, whatever that is. And also, you know, we've launched so many things in our career and we've never, we've had a lot of failures. But one of the biggest failures was that we learned pretty quickly was not having deadlines, not having scarcity, not setting a number on the thing, not setting a number for the people in the room.

And now that we have that dialed.

In, it's so much easier, it is so much easier to fill the numbers that we want.

There's research that shows that if you have a deadline, you have to act by this time in order to get this package or this price, whatever it is. You get more people to say to convert if you have a one week deadline than a two week deadline, more time. But it doesn't give them the sense of, oh, I better move or I'll lose this quickly.

You know, we totally learned that. Yeah, we've shortened those windows and it's been a game changer. Yeah. And I, in the beginning I was like, no, they're not going to have enough time to make the decision. They have plenty of time. They've seen all this stuff. Yeah, you have to give them those deadlines. And we try to build in, if it's like, you know, we do different live events, we try to build in kind of like three points of scarcity, kind of like, so we have those different urgency places where it hits different kind of versions of Scarcity for people. Like, maybe the first one's a bonus or early bird. Maybe the next one is. Price is going up, but some people are still okay with that higher price because they just want more time. And then the last one is just. You are not getting it. After this, we are closed. Yeah, yeah. So we have like the three to hit. We try to build those in and we found that that's, that's helpful. So scarcity, million percent. Your stuff just will not sell without it. It won't. Like when I have things open and I'm like, come on in. It's like, oh my God. Trickles. Trickles of people. So, okay, love that. How about unity? I want to know about this one.

This is the newest one. And we talked a little bit about it at the outset. The idea that people, if you can show people how you share an identity with them, it could be a locale and it could be a business connection, it could be a religious connection, political party connection. All kinds of. Even fans of an athletic team. This happened to me. If you do that, all barriers to influence decline. Here's my story. As I was saying, I grew up in Wisconsin, so my NFL favorite team is the Green Bay Packers. And I saw an article a while ago of which celebrities have which teams as their favorites. And it turns out that the singers Lil Wayne and I can't remember the other guy anyway. And Laurie, I immediately felt better about their music. I thought better of their music. Yeah, Justin Timberlake. That's who it was. Justin Timberlake. Justin Timberlaker fan too. He's a big factor fan.

Okay, this is hilarious. So we are too, obviously.

And I wanted him. Not only did I think better of his music, I wanted him to succeed more. He was one of me. All right. Okay, so anything. Here's an example of how you can do it with such a small twist. There was a study done on a university campus. People took a young woman about college age, dressed like a student, put her in the center of campus in front of a table for the United Way. And everybody who walked by, all the students, she would say, would you give a donation to the United Way? And she was getting some because she was similar to them. And we like people who are like us.

Yep.

If she added one more sentence, she increased donations by 450%. What was the sentence? I'm a student here too. I'm one of you. And we say yes to those who are of us. Not just like us, but of us.

So good. These little tiny tweaks. Little tiny Tweaks make such a massive difference. I mean, that is a huge. What you're talking about is. They're not. These are not just little percentages. These are massive percentages that will affect your life if you do these things. And I gotta tell you, it makes your life more enjoyable finding the commonalities with people. It just really. It really does so.

And the other thing is giving genuine praise that also increases liking because not only do people like those who. Who are like them, they like those who do like them. This used to be my biggest problem, that I would hear myself saying praiseworthy things about someone and leave it in my head. Now if I hear myself saying, gee, what Laurie just said there was brilliant, I move it to my tongue. And I can't tell you how much better the goodwill between me and that other person has grown as a result. And it's. It was true. Why was I. Why was I hiding it? It had to do with the way I was raised, I'm sure. But anyway, yeah, so now I fight against that.

That is a game changer. That's such a good. If you guys take one thing away from this podcast, that one. That is so beautiful. I love that. Okay, so you have something exciting that you're working on. Ethical influence applications for business. What is that?

So we're starting a new company called the Cialdini Institute, and it's based on a online on demand program that people can get access to. And it features these principles of influence and how they can be employed in ethical ways to get people to move in your direction in business situations, for the most part. Right. And let me give you an example from Unity. A while ago, I was writing a grant proposal and it needed to be sent off the next day. And I was reading it over for one last time and I saw there was a paragraph that was not compelling. I didn't really have the data I needed to make that case convincingly, but I knew I had a colleague who had done a study the year before and he had the data in his archives. So I, I wrote him an email. I said, tim, I'm going to call you and I know you've. I've got this. It's due the next day and I know you've got the data. I want to arrange for me to get it. And I called him up and he said this was known, he was known as a grouchy, sour kind of guy. He said, bob, I know why you're calling, and the answer is no. I can't rescue you from being a Poor time manager Bob. So the answer is no. And before I got this research, I would have said to him, come on, Tim, I got this due tomorrow. He already said no to that. Here's what I said, Tim, we've been in the same psychology department now for 12 years. I really need the data. Had them that afternoon.

Wow.

I just brought to the surface a connection that we had. Just bring it to consciousness. It was true. We'll say yes to those who share their identities once they recognize and that's made top of consciousness for them.

Wow. Can you share one more example of that? Like, how could we.

Let's do it in a. In a relationship.

Okay. Yeah.

There was a study done in Texas. Researchers took couples who had been together for at least three years and they brought them into a laboratory situation. Said, now can you find a problem that you have that you just can't get over? You're just at loggerheads with this. And all the years that you've tried, you haven't been able to make it work. Okay, yes, we can find one, whatever it was. And then they flipped the coin. They said, all right, to one of the partners, you will be the persuader and your job will be to persuade your partner to come into line with your thinking on this. And then they left the room. The researchers left the room, but they didn't leave the room really. They had tape recorders and a camera through a one way mirror so they could see what was going on. And they counted three kinds of persuaders. One they called the coercive type. They said, okay, if you won't do this for me, you'll be sorry. I'll have to do some things that you don't like. Not only didn't that produce movement toward the persuader, it produced polarization against the person. They got more distance. We've all had those people in our lives who try to coerce us into things. We resent that, certain bosses and so on. Well, that's true of partners too. It's a bad way to persuade. There was a second group. They were called the rational persuaders. They said, well, if you just think hard about this, you'll see that my position is the more reasonable and rational one. So you should move for them. Now, that didn't produce polarization, it just produced laughter.

Yep.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, you think, you know. And. And so there was no change at all. But there was a very small group of people, only 15%, who used a unity strategy. Right. Here's what they said. You know, we've been Together now for three years. I'd really appreciate it if you did this for me. Me. And they're the only ones who got change. They brought the relationship to my. We are together. We share an identity. We're a couple. This is what you do for people inside those relationships. Knowing something as simple as that was. And that was. It was interesting. Everybody else was doing something else. This whole thing of just reminding people of the relationship. Here's what I like to say these days, very often, and this is true in business relationships as well as personal, sometimes the relationship is the argument. It is the argument. The fact that there's a relationship, there is enough to create the change in your direction. You just have to bring it to mind. You just have to make it salient in people's consciousness, and then they behave in ways that are guided by the unity principle.

Oh, so good. Okay. So my husband and I, Chris, we've been married. It'll be 18 years this August. And we have a statement that has. In the last. You know, so we had a lot of good years of learning how to fight, which I'm sure you understand the art of fighting. But the conclusion has been what I just realized is like following that unity factor, we have solved more arguments quickly now that we've discovered this over the last. I would say within the last 10 years, this has been. I don't even know where it came from, but it was. It's always when we're in an argument to stop it. It's like one of us comes to this realization of, hey, are we on the same team? We're on the same team. How do we want this to end? We know that this is going to end with us together always. So that statement.

Then you give grace.

Yep.

To the other person. Mm.

Bringing it to the surface always makes us go, oh, that's right. Yeah, we're on the same team. So, so good. Oh, I love this. And I love how much research you have around all of it, because that's how I think a lot of people listening to. And I'm sure you've experienced this, but we really can understand it once we hear it in examples and once we hear the research like, oh, this makes sense to do this. It just makes for a better life altogether. So, so grateful for you. How can we check out Ethical influence applications for Business and anything else you want to share on that?

So let me give you one last example that what this Ethical Influence for Business program is filled with is something I call the small bigs. The smallest things you can do to harness the big power of each of those principles. So let me give you one last one for unity. If you want colleagues to support an idea that you have so you can move it forward within your business, let's say, and you give them a summary of your idea or blueprint or an outline, and you say, can you give me your opinion on this? That's a mistake. It's not a mistake to ask for their support. It's a mistake to ask for their opinion. Because when you ask for an opinion, you get a critic. People step away from you. They move away from unity. They separate. Okay? You are over there, and now I am giving you my opinion for your idea. They separate, right? Go inside themselves. If instead you use a small, big and you change one word, instead of asking for their opinion, ask for their advice, and you get a partner. Now you get someone who is with you together and the research is clear, you get significantly better evaluations of your idea and significantly better input as to how you might modify it. If you ask for their advice because they're part of it now. They're not an external evaluator giving a critique. They're your partner in this, and they want it to be better. So you change one word, and everything changes as a consequence. And by the way, the newest research shows the very same thing. When you compare asking for advice to asking for feedback, you get the same inferior consequences when you ask for feedback as when you ask for an opinion. The superior one is always advice.

Okay, love this, because I'm about to ask for feedback on something, so maybe I'll ask for advice on how to get better instead of.

So the way to get in touch with us about the new influence Ethical Influence Application for Business program is to go to the cialdini.com newsletter.

Okay.

There's a newsletter there that gives you a tip, an influence tip every week. And there will be information there about how you can sign up for this program if you're interested in.

Amazing. I'm putting that in show notes. So we'll make sure you guys can just scroll down from this podcast right now. And I have that link right there for you. You can go check it all out. Definitely go look at that. Because I feel like everybody listening like that just changed my life, to be honest as well, this podcast did. But that little bit of information, just because I'm coming out with a lot of new stuff right now that I will be needing advice on from people, and I really want people who. Who are gonna support me and give me the information to move forward and not feel like they're a critic. So that's really powerful for me. I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for dedicating your life to things that help us. This was so much fun. Any last words you wanna share?

No. I really enjoyed this conversation that we had. You asked good questions, allowed me to get into good answers.

Well, this just made my whole day, so I'm super appreciative of you and you guys. If you love this podcast as much as text this to a friend and say this podcast is going to change your business life. It's got so much good info or share it on social media. Give us a tag. It's so much fun for to see who is actually listening to this podcast. And until next time, earn your happy. Bye everyone.

Sam.