The Bachelorette Kaitlyn Bristowe On Lessons From Her Breakup & How To Handle Comparison

The only way you can find somebody to add value in your life is if you first find that relationship with yourself. And I really figured that out through therapy, which I had no idea before. I really relied emotionally on other people to fulfill me.

Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the show. This was such a fun podcast for me. It was a little bit of a fun departure from who I normally get to interview, but I had Caitlin Burstow on the show. If you don't recognize that name, and you probably actually do, because Caitlin is known for her time on ABC's the Bachelor season 19, and she was also the Bachelorette on season 11. Stay with me, you guys, because this girl has so many things going and has her hand in a lot of different businesses. Podcasting. It's so exciting, and I loved this conversation with her. She was also co hosting two seasons of the Bachelorette in addition to taking home. Hold on a minute.

This is my favorite part.

In addition to taking home the mirror ball trophy on season 29 of Dancing with the Stars. Now, this is such a fun conversation because I really got to go inside of her brain as she went through all of these things and had all of this pressure in these different arenas of her life that she was in. Just thrown out to the public, you guys. Reality television at its finest. And earlier this year, she was a special guest on Dancing with the stars.

Tour, over 60 stops.

Do you know what it takes mentally to be able to do that, you guys?

She also has a wine label, so.

You know, I love her even more, called Spade and Sparrows. And when she's not working, you'll find her at her home in Nashville with her fiance Jason and their two golden retrievers. You guys, I'm literally obsessed. She loves dogs. She loves 90 music. She loves wine. You're going to love her. And I love the way that her brain works. She was just so real and so much fun.

So let's get started. Caitlyn, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me.

You know what? It's so much fun to talk to another podcaster. I'm like, look at that, Mike. You sound like Butterfly. This is so good.

Oh, my God. I know. They always have the proper setup. And, like, I feel like most people who. Who host a podcast can talk to a wall for an hour, too, so it's always nice to have someone you can banter with.

Oh, my God. I had to do, like, a keynote into this big group of 7,000 people yesterday, and I had A moment where I was like, this is what I said to myself. It's so funny. I was like, I'm not going to be able to talk about this topic for 45 minutes. I got on there and I was like. I was going way over. I was like, okay, no, I have to stop. Like, if you have a podcast, you inevitably, somehow will reach into the vortex of your brain and you'll find something.

It's so true. You've got the gift of gab, and you're using it to, like, for a career, so it's perfect.

Okay, so your podcast is off the Vine. Yes. Where did that come from? And did you always know that you wanted to do this? Like, did you always, like, hearing yourself talk?

Yes.

Yes, I did.

No, I'm like, one of those weirdos that, like, I'm like, is that narcissistic? If I actually love the sound of my voice, I'm just kidding. I actually. When I have it in headphones, I'm like, that's cool. I always wanted my own radio show. When I was little, I would interview my family members, and, like, I always wanted. I love interviewing people, but then I can't listen to it back because then I cringe.

But I literally cannot. I will not. Like, no, I go to.

Not Reddit by any means, but I'll go to, you know, notes people have and take constructive criticism, or my Facebook group will have, like, some feedback for me. But I try and go where the love is because they mean well, and then that's how I get my feedback. I don't listen and, you know, critique myself and be hard on myself, because we all do that too much.

Mm.

So when.

Where did it come from? Like, when were you like, oh, we got to do a podcast. Like, this is. This has got to come out.

So after I was the Bachelorette, I think it was, gosh, I don't even know. Time now just seems so crazy. But I think it was about five or six years ago that I started the podcast, and it was about seven or eight years ago I came off the show. So I just had heard, like, podcasts were becoming a thing. I had one. I can't even remember what one it was, but I remember I enjoyed listening to it because it felt like you could just be in on somebody's conversation that was, like, a genuine, authentic conversation for, like, 45 minutes. And, you know, a lot of people weren't and aren't doing that anymore. It's quick little Instagram stories or an Instagram post or a three minute TikTok. But a lot of people don't have good, honest, genuine conversation for 45 minutes anymore. And I remember being like, oh, we need more of this. And then I was like, wait, I wrote on my vision board, like, 15 years ago, I wanted my own radio show. I'm gonna start a podcast. And one of my girlfriends at the time, we just sat there for hours trying to think of a name for it. And I was like, you know, I always say things like, off the cuff, and I'm kind of, I will swear, and I'm edgy and I have wine and blah, blah. And we were just trying to, like, throw out all these different things. And then she was like, what about off the cuff? And then we're like. And then it was like, off the vine. And I was like, oh, my gosh. That's it. That's the name.

Yeah, I love it because I love wine, so it's fantastic. I was like, oh, she's a genius for creating something where it actually says, you should be drinking wine during this. So absolutely.

I was like this. Sometimes it. You know, there's times where I'm. It's like 9am And I'm like, okay, wait, is this on brand or is this a problem?

Can't figure this out yet. You're still safe. I just love, like, your backstory because you are from Alberta, Canada, and I.

Don'T know if it was on your.

Radar to become a reality star and to be on Dancing with the Stars and win the mirror ball, which, by the way, I ballroom dance. So I'm mildly obsessed with the fact that you won the mirror ball, so that's so freaking cool.

Ballroom dancing is the best.

Oh, this is so cheesy. I did an event called Dancing with the Twin City Stars, which was in Minnesota. So, like, I literally obsess about Dancing with the Stars. So I can't wait to ask you about that. But what were you like when you.

Were a little girl? Well, I. Sometimes. I don't know how to answer that because. Well, first of all, I just did a weak retreat about my inner child, so I love this. Okay. I could probably tell you for an hour about who she was, but when I was little, I was painfully shy, but so wildly secure around the people that were my family and close friends. I would perform. I love to entertain. And then I'd go to school and, like, put my head down, and I was so shy, and to people I didn't know. And then I. Around the age of, I don't know, 10, I started getting really bad OCD. And I would convince myself I was sick. I had everything had to be even on me. I couldn't touch this shoulder without touching this shoulder. And it became even more painful for me to go to school. And I can't tell you what switched for me, but I'll never forget, one day in high school, I was like, I got to stop this. Like, and I just cold turkey ocd. Like, it just. I was like, I'm done. I'm done. And I started coming out of my shell, and I grew up dancing. And I think that kind of helped with, you know, going on stage and performing because I loved performing for my family. And then being on a stage was like, oh, my gosh. And then I started getting more used to it and, you know, being more comfortable with who I was. So I don't know, that kind of turned into. I was like the jokester in high school. I pulled pranks on people. I got detention from, like, trying to crack jokes in class. And I just turned into this, I don't know, class clown that kind of took me into my 20s where I didn't know I was going to be on reality television. But it didn't surprise me when I did. I was just like, I would do this. You know, I'm a risk taker. I put myself in situations that a lot of people probably wouldn't. I like being outside of my comfort zone, and I was just always networking without realizing I was networking.

Yeah, that's so interesting. And from, you know, first of all, we're going to go back to that. The trip that you took in a minute. Because I'm so obsessed and I need to hear more. And I was reading about it on your Instagram, but the part about just, like, going into reality tv, where you're from, you're from Alberta, Canada. And it was.

It was kind of back in the.

Day when it was like, not. It wasn't like, like, now it's very normal for people to be like, oh, all these different people on shows and everything. But you, you were kind of in somewhat of the beginning. So was there some people like, what.

The hell are you doing?

Like, you're about to go put your life on display. How did you put yourself into those situations? And did you have moments where you just got completely, like, caught up and out of your mind? And how did you come back to a place of, like, centered?

I don't even know how to answer that because it was such a whirlwind.

So only imagine.

Yeah. Because you really, you know, I didn't know anything about tv. I didn't know anything about a show being produced. I don't always just been a fan. So I'm watching it and thinking, you know, I didn't know there's a whole buttload of producers behind the scenes just watching with like 20 cameras around. And I remember stepping out of the limo for the first time and going, well, where's the music? Why is it so quiet? This is awkward. Like, I didn't understand anything. So I was naive and I'm really glad I was because I think that helps you surrender to the whole process. And then, yes, it helped me just be myself because I wasn't overthinking what the producers were telling me. And I don't know, I just really allowed myself to be and enjoy it. And people in my life, like my family and friends, they weren't. They. None of them were like, what are you? Actually one person was like, what are you doing going on season 19 of the Bachelor? Like, is this still a thing? And I was like, I just have this feeling that like something bigger will come from it. And all my family and friends kind of laugh, same way I kind of did, being like, yeah, you would go on a show like the Bachelor, like you. You know, I didn't, I didn't go to college. I was like, something crazy is going to happen for me. I just like had this weird feeling. And yes, and nobody was surprised. But then once it got going and it started airing and I saw the loyalty of the fans and Bachelor Nation and news stations picking things up and Good Morning America talking about it and Ellen talking about it and my face being like the girl who said something inappropriate out of the limo. And I was just being mean. People were hating on me and it was all such a whirlwind that it was really hard to stay. I tried to stay grounded, but I don't know about centered because it's hard when your whole life is flipped upside down and you're chewed up and spat out on national television.

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I really it's it's like those moments that I actually think are. I think why I feel like such a. And I'm from the outside looking at everybody. Like, I actually don't know you yet, but it's like you feel centered to me. Like, there can be a lot happening now in the outside world, and I feel like it's going to take a bit to get you knocked off where you're. You know what I mean? Where you're just going to be like, rah, I don't know who I am. And I think it's those moments that are really important for somebody who wants to have a big life and a big career. Like, those are really important moments to have to be so out of center that you have to figure out who the heck you are, like, away from all of that stuff.

So, yeah, that was something that I'm. You kind of have to learn the hard way. But I really am thankful for a really awful breakup I went through because it sent me into my darkest times. And through those dark times, I really did deep dive into therapy. And that was when I was like, 27, 28, and I just committed two years of intense therapy of getting to know who I am, why I am the way I am, where it comes from. I learned so much about myself in two years. I completely changed from the age of, like, 27 to 29. And that's, like, a thing, too. I swear. It's like the most pivotal moment of your life is 27. Like, something switches in your brain and you start to feel a little more comfortable with who you are. You want to know more about who you are. And so I did so much therapy and that I feel like I was in, honestly, one of the most solid places of my whole life when I went on that show. And that really helped me because if they would have put me on at the age of 25, I wouldn't be here right now. I really wouldn't. It took me failing at something that I thought was my forever picking myself back up, putting in the work on myself for a couple years, and then feeling like I'm worthy of going on this show. I'm worthy of finding love if it's on national television. I'm worthy of building something outside of that. And I just don't think I would have had that without, you know, that rock bottom.

So from that age, that 27 to 29, when you decided to do therapy, what is something that you came out the other side with that you're like, wow, I am so, so proud of myself for this, and I love this about me.

I think it was a few things, like I learned that I just so desperately wanted to feel loved and cared for, but truly I wanted desperately to feel that from myself and I didn't to want know that's what I needed. I thought, you know, we're taught when we're little, you find your partner and you get married and you have kids, and this is the blueprint. And I always felt like I was going against the grain there where I was like, I don't want to follow the blueprint, but always in my head, you know, Disney movies, what your parents tell you, what you see in your parents, you're supposed to find that person that completes you. And I think in the therapy and what I learned coming out of it was like, the only way you can find somebody to add value in your life is if you first find that relationship with your. And I really figured that out through therapy, which I had no idea before I. I really relied emotionally on other people to fulfill me.

What would you say if you could sum it up like, what was the relationship with yourself before? Maybe it's just kind of the overarching self talk about yourself compared to what it looks like after you have a relationship with yourself?

Well, I mean, I'm still working on that relationship with myself.

Same, same. We all are.

And I think people need to know that too, is that it's, you know, you don't arrive to a healing point. You don't go, okay, I'm here, I'm healed, I'm happy. Your whole life is going to be different stages of healing and different things that are going to happen to you. You get older people, you're going to have to deal with death, you have to deal with heartbreaks, you deal with things that happen in your career, your relationships. And it's just always like a lifetime of, you know, ups and downs. And so I think before I went into therapy, I, you know, I had moments where I was like, I'm great and I'm confident and. But I really wasn't. I was totally searching for other people to find me desirable or attractive or funny or get this job and then impress this person. I was really seeking outside validation, which I still, again, at the age of 37, find myself doing because of social media and that being my career. But it was bad. And I think I, you know, through this breakup that I went through, I was like, not only am I financially relying on other people, I'm emotionally relying on other people. And it just made me feel empty. Inside. And that whole, you know, metaphor of your cup being full. My tank was on empty. I was at 2% battery. I just had no self worth anymore from relying on so many people seeking to love me without loving myself. That and I also had no coping skills. Bless my parents. They were incredible parents. They wanted to take care of me and they didn't want me to feel pain and they didn't want things to not be okay. And through that I would lean on them to make everything okay. And I never learned proper coping skills before and after therapy. I was like this shell of myself that didn't know who I was, that thought I needed somebody to complete me. And after just two years of therapy, I was a complete different person. Realiz that no matter what I do in my life, my relationship with myself is the most important thing. And again, like, I've had failed engagements, I've had failed relationships. I've, you know, gone through so much. But that doesn't mean I don't know that the importance of that.

What do you think is true? If there was a statement that you could say about. We'll just start with. Because you keep referring back to the. That failed relationship that really broke your heart. What would you say is true? Like a lesson around romantic relationships that you wish other people knew before they get into it.

I just think everything relationships to people have been so romanticized. I think everybody expects things to be this certain way when you fall in love and stay that way. And I would just say, I think it's just that cheesy saying of like finding yourself first. I mean, I don't think there's anyone in the whole world who can thrive in a healthy relationship if they don't find that relationship with themselves first. I just don't think it's possible. If there's anyone out there who's done it, please tell me. I'd love to hear your story. Oh my God.

I have been married for. It'll be 18 years this summer.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah. Long time. But I'm obsessed. Literally love, it gets better every year. But we both do a lot of personal development and we loved each other, but it was, it was turbulent, like the first five to seven years because we, it was two very lost people, very dependent on external things. And you know, just you're young and you're add drinking and fuel to the fire. And it was just. Yeah, it wasn't until we really stopped needing each other to fulfill things for us. And then I had the big lesson of like, he can't be Everything for me. I have to go seek out these different friendships to fulfill these different parts of me and these different needs, which was, like, groundbreaking info for me.

Well, I applaud you then, because that is so cool that you were able to realize that in a relationship and then kind of grow in your own separate ways and then come back together. I think that's. I love. That's very rare. And I love hearing stories like that. And I applaud you for that kind of relationship. And I had one of those aha moments, too, with what you just said, how you can find what you need in a relationship in other places in your life. Like, you don't have to look for one person that fulfills all the things you need in, like, your checkbox of a relationship. I bet you have a girlfriend that can, you know, give you what you need in that and yourself that you can give her a sister or a brother or a cousin or whoever is in your circle, and you can find that not. It doesn't have to be all on one person. So I love that he said.

Yeah, well, I love that, too, that you. That you talk about it, too, in friendships, because I'm interested to hear. I. I feel like you have, from what I can see, good girl friendships. And I think that a lot of people struggle with them. I think there's, you know, narrative about how women are, or it's hard to make friends when you're. Whatever the story is. There's a million stories. I used to really, really struggle with it for multiple reasons. I was just. I was raised in a more restrictive religion, so I couldn't associate with people outside of the religion until later in my life. And so for me, I had to go make these new groups of girlfriends. And I was like, you know, it was. It was so foreign to me. So I would love to hear kind of how you've navigated, like, female relationships. Have you ever struggled with it, or has it always been something that's been easy for you?

Well, first of all, there's, like, some new scientific article out there that actually proves having solid, like, girlfriends in your life improves your mental health.

Yes, it totally does.

It totally does. And I definitely struggled with it in high school. I'll never forget. I thought I, you know, in junior high, that's what we call it in Canada. I think you guys call it middle school.

Middle school, junior high. Yeah.

So I had this group of friends, and I'll never forget, they all started getting a little bit closer, and I was feeling left out, and I said, something to them once. And I said, can I please be in the group? And they said, we'll think about it.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

And that was something. And then I thought, did I do something wrong? Am I not good enough? And that's when, like, the, you know, not good enough wound was cracked open. And then I got into high school and I started dating this guy that was two years older than me. And so I started kind of hanging out with his group of friends. And my group of friends just, like, did not give a shit about me. And it was just so hard to understand. And I'll never forget then going in for graduation, all the girls in my grade were getting a limo, and I said, can I be in the limo? And they had to have a group meeting about it. And they said. They said, okay, fine, you can. And I ended up having to sit in the front seat of the limo.

I hate this story for you, but.

I love it because it made you.

I didn't even realize how sad that was till, like, late. I was like, yay, they let me in. Like, I didn't realize how sad that was.

Were you talking to the limo driver?

I. You know what? I had a flask. I was having a great time.

You were good.

It was fine. I made my boyfriend come meet me there. We had a great time. But, yeah, I remember being like, why is that so hard? And then later in life, I kind of just kept two really solid girlfriends that I had since I was little, and they are still in my life to this day. And then when I moved to Vancouver from my small town when I was 19, I found really solid friends and girls that I still, to this day, call my best friends. And I thought going into the bachelor mansion with 30 women was going to be catty and overwhelming and, like, clicky. And honestly, it was one of my favorite memories of that show was all the friendships that I made. And, you know, they can edit it in any way, and of course, not everybody got along, but overall, I think still have incredible friendships out of it that are really important to me. And I just think it really is that saying of quality over quantity. And I'm a big, big boundary believer. And over the years and coming into where I'm at now, I have zero problem cutting people out of my life if I. If they don't add value. Zero problem.

I mean, I feel like that value right there, that just boundaries is literally everything. But I don't know, where did you. So. But where did you learn them, though? Because, yes, I think they're One of the most important things. And they keep amazing friendships. They keep things. I mean, it's one of the most important things for work, for friendships, for life. Where did you see it?

To be honest, I feel like I learned it from my girlfriends. I learned. So one of my girlfriends, Jess, I. Sometimes I'm like, I give you all the credit for who I am today because she taught me so much. She was six years older than me and she would call me out on my shit and she was always, just, always ahead of me. And she's an old soul and she would just tell me what matters, what's important, what real happiness is in friendships and relationships. About like, I feel like truly my girlfriends taught me about that. You know, they say that you're the sum of the five people you surround yourself with. And I truly believe that because these girls, women now, I guess, like, they taught me so much about myself and my self worth as well as therapy. I will, I will like shove therapy down people's throats. And I know it's probably annoying, but.

Because, no, we love therapy. We love therapy here. Good.

And there's so many resources now where, you know, I'm so lucky to be able to go on these therapy retreats. And, you know, not everybody has access to all the therapy that I can get all the time, but there's so many cool resources and podcasts and apps and everything now that it's. Yeah, I just always like to share it.

No, I think it's so important. And if anyone is struggling, I really feel like there's always. It's always from a thought, right? There's always something, a thought from the past that we're not letting go of.

It's.

It's because something is on repeat over and over. And I do think that there's so much help and work that can be done around it, but we need other people. So that's why I love. That's why I love when people like you share it too. Like, take the stigma away from it because I think it's freaking amazing. So. Because we need each other.

And I don't ever want to also sound like I'm righteous or like, you know, because I still have so many. I actually struggle big time with hormonal depression. I have anxiety. I still am like just such a work in progress all the time. And it's just from therapy. I've just learned and grown so much.

See, I. I think that's important to share too. And I so feel you.

I.

This whole podcast, people probably listen to It. And they're like, you need to stop talking about your anxiety. I'm like, but I'm never going to.

Yeah, same. I feel people, my listeners probably feel.

The same way, which I think all my listeners probably have anxiety because they come because they're like, oh, she's always trying to do something to, like, get through anxiety.

I don't know, maybe.

You know what, Caitlin?

Maybe we're just always going for more and trying new things out of our comfort zone, that it flares up our anxiety. So I think maybe that's a good thing.

And I try now to be like, maybe my anxiety is excitement over something. Because you get the same feelings from anxiety as you do. Like, it's proven you get the same feelings, nervous anxiety and excitement. So now it's just about identifying, okay, which one is it? Because maybe I'm anxious, but maybe I'm actually excited about something and there's a shift happening inside me. Like, I try. I try to think about it through a different lens.

I love hearing this so much. Recently I, like, tried to rename it to. I'm kind of rename, like, doing the same thing you are. And mine has turned into that anxiety keeps me super sharp because otherwise, honestly, if I didn't get really nervous for certain things, I don't like, I don't know if I'd go practice my Talk for another 10 rounds to make sure it's good. Like, I'm kind of a. I have two weird personalities. I can have massive anxiety and want to get things right, or I can, like, wing it and be like, I don't care. I'm like, actually a little scared I might wing too many things if I didn't have anxiety. So now I thank it. I'm like, thank you for making me double check things and show up and, like, get my shit together and think about it. So there you go. Hopefully you can borrow it.

I hope you say it out loud because energetically, it does something. When you say things out loud, if you are thanking your anxiety, I love.

That I do say it out loud.

Good.

Because I've done a lot of work around it, and that's what people have told me to do.

Good.

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Okay, let's go back to that little girl because I actually talked to my little girl out loud.

Or she talked.

She actually talks to me, which I'm sure you've probably done that too. But you went on a weekend and one of your Posts was going to go love on her for a week, which I loved. It was like a picture little self, maybe like what, six or eight or something like that.

I think I was eight. Yeah.

Okay. And I would love to know in that photo, like around that age, if you can remember at all, what was it that she needed to hear? What was she missing and who did she need to hear it from?

I mean, it was that simple message of just you existing and being who you are makes you worthy and lovable just by existing. And it's so interesting too, because it was weird going to do inner child work because I was going. Because I always want to learn more about myself. But I was like, I don't know, I feel. I start comparing and I start being like, well, my childhood was so great. How can I compare to someone who maybe actually had. I call it big T trauma. I have little T trauma. And so I'm like. Because I think back and I'm going to. Doing all this work and I'm like, gosh, my parents. Parents genuinely loved me. Like, sometimes I'm like that a little too much. But I still, as a child got the message that, well, if you, you know, perform and if you are look this way, you have to do your hair nice and you have to wear a nice dress and you have to do this and you have to show up for this. Like, I still, I got that message that you have to be something in order to be loved. And I think a lot of kids probably receive that same message without their parents even realizing, no matter how incredible the parents are.

Totally. You know, it's crazy because in my past is very different from my husband's. And he feels, he says the same thing. He's like, my, like, what I had growing up was nothing. I feel bad even, like, doing this work around it.

But your percentage of what you feel.

Is the same because it's. It's only been your perspective. And also I just, I think that's so important for people to also hear because there are a lot, believe it or not, like in. In my field of what I do, just personal development, speaking and writing. It's like, there are a lot of people who are like, I can't be in this because I don't have a big enough trauma. And I'm like, no, no, that is not true. We all go through the same personal struggles. Like, their life is hard no matter how easy you had it. And like, no matter how much love you had, there's still these moments that you're going to have to work through as an adult. And, you know, even talking to you, like having to look a certain way has maybe followed you through your whole life of I can only get love if, if, you know, people are looking at me for this or if a lot of people are seeing what I'm doing, whatever that looks like. I mean, that shit's real.

Oh my gosh. Yes. And yeah, people should never, you know, compare their trauma to other people's trauma because perception is not reality. Reality is what's in you. And every single person could benefit from learning about that little kid inside of them of what they needed growing up that they didn't get because we all didn't get something it's not. And it's not our parents fault. They were doing their best, but all of us weren't getting something we needed. And whether that's, you know, something way more traumatic or a little trauma, even, even if you can share one message with somebody and somebody relates to it and goes, wow, that really helped me. Who cares if it's big or small?

Yeah, totally.

Let's.

You just mentioned comparison. I'd love to hear how you handle that because, like, you are really out in the world and it's probably really easy because part of your job, you do have to go online a lot. You do have to be around a lot of people. You do have to be around people who don't have the tools that you have and haven't done the therapy. So how do you handle comparison?

It's interesting too, because I, I found out that's actually one of my worst patterns when I did this inner child work is I compare whether that's. This is where I really notice. It was after I was the Bachelorette, JoJo was the Bachelorette after me, and I couldn't figure out why I felt anxious about that. That. And then everyone online was going, oh, she's like a prettier Caitlyn. And oh, she's like a Caitlyn 2.0. Like the noon improved or oh, she's like a younger Caitlyn. And I was like, oh, gosh, wow, this really affects me. But I knew in my heart that I want, I liked JoJo and I wanted to support her. And I found myself in this really weird gray area of comparing and also wanting to support because nobody can understand what you go through unless you go through it. And that's when I first started to acknowledge the comparison thing. And that was what, six years ago? So even doing this inner child work, I was like, wow, I still have so much healing to do with that. Not, of course not with JoJo, but in my life, podcasting, I'm like, what if people like this podcast better than mine? And what if this bachelorette could do a podcast better than me? And then I have to really just. And this is, again, the beauty of working on yourself is I can snap out of that so quick now, and I can be like. Like, there's room for everybody. I could help that person build their podcast, and that would feel better to me than comparing and being insecure. And I have been able to, like, shift that narrative for myself where it feels good. But again, that's taken a lot of practice. But comparing is just so real and something that we all probably struggle with. Even if you're not on social media, I. Social media is one of the worst places. But in a way, workplace, or comparing yourself to, like, your new partner's ex, or like, we do it all the time, constantly, and it's such a thief of our own happiness.

So good. There was a couple other things that you mentioned in that post that I wanted to touch on. You had talked about aging not being scary, no coincidences, and forgiveness. That's loaded. But let's see if we can touch on them.

Yeah. So I. What I've learned a lot is that forgiveness is the most powerful thing, because holding a grudge against somebody is so toxic, it actually festers toxicity in your body. It festers in there, and it creates sickness. It is not good, and it is not doing anything for you. And it is like drinking the poison and expecting the other person to die. Yes. It's only hurting yourself. So forgiveness, True, true forgiveness. Not cheap forgiveness where you feel sorry for them and you're like, I forgive you. No, true forgiveness is healing for you and nobody else. It is only for you. So I learned that. Okay, so to me, again, with feeling like I need to look a certain way, and this is again, a really big struggle for me because of the jobs that I'm in. I want most jobs. I go, well, they're not gonna hire someone. And that's another, like, lie I tell myself. Aging is not scary. The alternative is we are lucky to age. I've had people. I've lost a best friend in a car accident. My mom has lost two of her best friends to cancer. There's so many people that experience loss. And the fact that I used to tell myself aging was bad blows my mind because it is. Is such a gift. And so we have to just think that when we. And again, people are gonna Be like, well, Caitlin, you get Botox and fillers and you dye your hair and you work out, and I. I still am gonna do that stuff. I actually love it.

I love it.

Love hand love, and I'm all for it. And it's this, you know, when people. You get too much Botox, I'm like, well, you probably color your hair. Like, you can't on me for it. I like to feel youthful. My. My spirit feels young. I enjoy looking younger, but I can separate that or at least try. And when I'm not spiraling or on my period to say, like, okay, what is the alternative? So you're aging, and you love skincare and you love it, so you. You know, you're doing just fine. But aging is not scary. It is a blessing.

That was really beautiful. I mean, I feel like I've heard it before, but not said in that exact way. Like, to actually think about the people who have not gotten to age because they have lost their life. That one really literally hit my soul hard. Like, we are so lucky every day to experience. It's been interesting. I'll tell you. I turned 42, and I was like, oh, I'm aging.

Yeah. Yeah.

I. I was like, literally come from a background where I was in it too. Like, I was a fitness model on covers for long periods of time. So I was like.

Like, oh, like, my.

I had an identity around that. And. And so it's been. It's been a lot of work for me. And I can tell you that I am getting to a place where I'm in kind of that same place where there are. I'm finding the true beauty in each period of my life. Like, there are things I'm accessing now after 40, that. You know, when you talked about that 27 to, like, 29, there's another one, like, at 37 or 38 to, like, 41. And it's. It's even juicier. Like, so I can't wait for you to get there.

Yeah, but that's another. That's another bonus of aging. You literally get wiser and more confident and start being, like, seeing how precious life is.

It's so. It's. And that's what I have to focus on. I'm like, this is so much fun. And also, my female, like, having amazing female friends and having a great partner.

Like.

Like, you kind of don't realize you're in. You kind of don't realize you're aging because you're in this bubble of love and, like, a good life. So Yeah, I love your perspective on that. Okay, last one. No coincidences. Tell me how in your life you can look back now. What is Steve Jobs quote? It's like you can't, you can only connect the dots looking backwards when you were in something and you were like, what the fuck am I doing here? What is that? What was that for you? And now why, how can you see why it was for you?

So many, so many things I'm trying to think of. Like I could think of a million examples, but let me think of the best ones. Like, okay, I freaking, I beat the horse. I beat the dead horse. The horse is in its next life all the time. Like I am like I've beat it so many times but it really is that one relationship that I don't want to say this lightly but like I definitely thought I would be better off if I wasn't on this planet. Like that's how low I was. Wow. Yeah. Go on medication. I was not well and I laid on my parents couch crying, cuddling a frickin Care Bear at the age of like 26 or 27, just being like, I cannot go up from here, I cannot. And that one moment in my life was the most pivotal in being able to pick myself back up, put myself in a situation to go on national television and really build a career and an empire out of it. And I, I, I wouldn't have done that without that. I would never have done that. And I just don't believe it's a coincidence. Even the, the guy that, that broke my heart, he said to me years later, you were supposed to do this, this. I like, he was like proud, he was like, this is where you're supposed to be. And yeah, that's just, to me, that's not a coincidence. I think life in the universe has a plan for you. It's already there and, and it's going to knock you down at certain times and there's always a lesson to be learned. But how the hell are you supposed to see that in the moment when you're just like feeling so terrible but there's always, always light at the end of the tunnel. Always.

That made me kind of tear up just because I was thinking like whether it's, whether it's a relationship and I haven't totally been there, but even just like I've had a business heartbreak recently that I was like, why? Like I can see why now, but it's those super down points where you just feel like you are getting the beat down and like you'll Never be. You really feel like you'll never be back. It's so beautiful to see on the other side for you, like, you're really back. And I feel like you're in a really beautiful again. Don't know you, but feels. Do you know what? I feel a lot of energy and I talk to a shit ton of people. I feel like. I can tell. I feel like you are a person who is grounded and happy and has hopes and dreams and is very much in love with her life now. And of course, we're always working through things. Things, but, like, that's a real energy and I don't feel it with everyone. So you're back, sister.

That I, like, actually touched my heart. Thank you. And I love that you said that, like, two things can exist. I can be so happy and loving where I'm at in my life and also have really, really, really shitty, hard days. Both can exist. And I think that's important for people to know.

And, man, they exist almost every day together.

You're so cute.

Well, I've had so much fun talking to you. Is there anywhere that you want to point people find, follow?

What should we go do?

What could be a favor to you if. If you are a fan of. Of wine. I am so proud of my wine label. I have worked so hard at it, and it is in Texas, Targets and Florida, and it's going into Georgia, and you can get it online. And we have this. Honestly, I. The only Pinot Noir I drink in my life right now is mine. I genuinely love it. But we've got a really nice rose, Pinot Grigio, Pinot Noir Cab, which, again, like, that was a man's world. And I was like, no, I got to go in there and do something about this. And it's been really fun. And then, so that's called Spade and Sparrows, and we have a really fun Instagram for that. I have a hair accessory line called Do Edit, which is also so much more than a hair product. It's literally a community of beautiful women. You could probably make friends in there and podcast off the vine, which I just, again, love talking to people and having genuine conversations. So thank you for having me.

Oh, my God, thank you so much, you guys. So many choices. We could drink wine, braid each other's hair, find friends, and listen to a podcast. So a lot of my kind of offerings. Love, love, love. Okay.

So grateful for you.

And you guys, until next time, earn your happy, happy.

Bye, everyone.