The Biggest Lessons We’ve Learned In Business With Kelly Kussman, Founder Of Cayla Gray Luxury Fine Fragrance

You need to make sure you're acting not out of emotion, but really out of a place of logic. And sometimes, especially when it's your own business, emotion tends to override the logic at times. And I like to use mentors to kind of gut check big decisions or gut check. Is my gut feeling the right direction that I should be going in.

Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the show. You guys, I have an exciting announcement for you. I want to meet you in person. I feel like I have not gotten to really host any in person stuff for a while. Some of you might know that I had the Bliss project every year for, I believe it was eight years, where 500 women from all around the world would come, we would gather, we'd be together for three freaking days. That was one of my favorite things that I did. But with the pivot and everything that I'm coming out with, something had to give. And also, it was kind of like that time in my life where I knew the next evolution was coming.

Right?

I don't even want to say pivot anymore because I believe a pivot is an evolution. So what I want to tell you is that I am hosting a one day workshop with the most incredible woman, Katrina Scott, co founder of Tone it up, you guys. She is known for her incredible, incredible ability to brand things, create communities, create incredible aesthetics. She is a branding expert, you guys. This woman just thinks in branding. Like, how do you make sure that your branding, your message and your community are all speaking the same language so that you are truly creating something that people are obsessed with, with? I have been following her for years. We met years and years ago. We've become really great friends. And I truly looked to her through so many of the things that I did. Didn't quite nail it like she does, but, man, she's been one of my biggest inspirations for aesthetics, branding, vibe, community message. So we are putting on a one day workshop June 3rd, you guys. And if you want to be there, the only way to get the early bird pricing is to text the word workshop to 310-496-8363. This workshop is called Girlfriends in business. Expand your brand and your network. We're gonna be talking about all of the ways that you may not be thinking of within your brand, whether you're a beginner, whether you have been doing this a long time, whether you're a veteran that you might be leaving on the table, whether it's time to start.

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310-496-8363. And my guest today, just speaking of amazing women, is my incredible friend, Kelly Kusman. She is the owner, designer, and vision behind Kayla Gray. She started her career in fragrance buying a major department store, where she fell in love with the distinctive nature of scents and their ability to make memories tangible. So after almost 20 years of leading large teams in corporate retail, she ultimately found that the surest road to success would involve following her own unique path. So she relocated to Phoenix, Arizona, where I am right now, Scottsdale, Arizona, and began the journey to start a new business venture and grow her family. You guys, Kayla Gray came out of a tragic loss of their first baby, whose name was going to be Kayla Gray. And after struggling with another pregnancy, Kelly wanted to create a legacy that not only honored the beauty and harbor of this bittersweet experience, but also fueled her personal passion for fragrance. So from that desire, Kayla Gray was born. You guys, I want to tell you that this is the most beautiful brand. Scents, candles, so much more. I keep them on my desk. I wear them. We collaborated this summer to make a light. This last summer to make a light pink fragrance, which, by the way, sold out in one day. That is crazy, you guys, because when have you ever bought a perfume online without selling it? And I can tell you that the reviews were insane. I did not get one where people did not like it. That's out of control insane. She has clean fragrances. They're incredible. I feel great about wearing them. I feel incredible about recommending them because so many fragrances out there are not clean or good for you and they use a lot of chemicals. So, you guys, this podcast was so much fun because she's my friend. I believe in her product. I love spending time with her. She's answered so many questions for me. She's been a mentor, a friend, a companion. We voice note back and forth about all of the things and the challenges of having a physical Product, you guys, she has saved me so many times and just been a safe haven and someone that I really, truly can't imagine walking this path without. So if you're ready to fall in love with someone, keep listening.

Here we go.

Kelly, I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Thank you so much for coming on again.

I'm excited to be here again.

Yeah, she was, she was on here briefly, you guys, but now we're gonna do a deep dive on a topic that you and I. I feel like our friendship was kind of built on challenges.

Yes, pretty much.

Which I love because I think I got closer to you faster than majority of people I've ever gotten close to because you and I became like voice noting friends over. Over some vulnerable things and challenges. And when I say vulnerable things, guys, I mean like really vulnerable things like businesses pivoting and the ups and downs of relationships and hearing about yourself you don't want to hear and all that fun stuff. So today we're going to talk about how to move through hard business lessons easier. And this is so near and dear to us because we're both in some challenging business lessons and we just had a great dinner the other night really talking about some things and you sent me a voice note recently about some tough stuff. So first, before we get into that, I just want to talk about your epic brand because I love it so much and I know that it is like your heart and soul on the outside of your body and that's been a huge just personal development journey for you as well. So tell us just a little bit about your brand and then we'll move into all of the fun stuff that you've learned through creating it.

The wild. The wild roller coaster. I own a company called Kayla Gray. We are a clean fragrance company. So everything is non toxic hypoallergenic. No parabens or phthalates in any of our products. For one of the few fragrance companies that actually discloses all of the ingredients in our products on our website, we want you to know what you're putting on your body. It's very important to us. And yeah, through that I actually started the company. I was in corporate retail for over 20 years leading large teams and leadership positions for, for retailers. But it was always placed on my heart that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And it wasn't till 2017 I actually had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. Almost lost my life. And it was at that moment that I realized life is so short. I almost lost my life. That Day as well as our first baby. And I knew I needed to start building my dream business and so started working on the company, called it Kayla Gray because that was gonna be the name of my husband Gabe and I's first baby. Wanted a way to kind of honor the heartbreak and put beautiful things out into the world. But like you said, it's been, you know, entrepreneurship is a roller coaster. Any job, any life is just a roller coaster. And yeah, the last few years, there's been beautiful moments and also moments that I've had to really take a step back and breathe and move through knowing that there's a lesson on the other side of it.

I just want to say your, you know, your candles and your scents.

I'm.

I'm truly obsessed. What we got to collab together, which was amazing. I think we sold out in a day or a day and a half.

Yes, it was a day and a.

Half, which was incredible because you know what, I was talking about that today. And you guys, like, when you do a launch, you should probably, you know, seed your people and let them know what's coming. Maybe it should, you know, be coincide with exactly what you're doing. And at the time, it did really did not. It kind of did, but it didn't. It was like, I'm doing a beverage. No, I'm. Now I'm going to release this sense. But I think because, number one, you had such a great name. It was known for clean sense. It was like you put out a phenomenal product. It's beautiful. It's luxury. I am like actually shocked because people just had that much faith in your brand that they bought a scent without smelling it. Like, I had that moment. We were talking about it on the walk today. I was like, okay, we had a lot of good things going for us that people bought a scent without smelling it and people loved it. Like, we had rave reviews from it. So that is really exciting. And I also want to say your candles are incredible. So you guys go and check them out because you don't realize what you're putting on your body and what you're burning in your house. So I feel really good not only knowing that they are the most scented candles I have ever had, and they're really luxury fragrances. Like, I feel like I'm in like a five star hotel when I'm smelling your stuff, which is how I want to feel all of the time.

I love hearing that we do the same fragrance houses. That's. Yeah, well, that's big luxury brands do. So that's why I.

You know what? I want to, like, smell what abundance and luxury and beauty and money all smell like. So that's great.

That's what we are.

We throw some burning dollar signs. There are dollar bills in there. It's fantastic to burn some money, but I love it. It's. It's literally my favorite.

So I'm.

I'm really excited about. She has an exciting rebrand coming, and that's been fun to talk about, just because it's part of growth of a company as well. And I know that there's a lot that goes around rebranding, too. Like, you feel very attached to your original company, and then all of a sudden, one day you wake up and you're like, I think we might need, you know, a rebrand, or what does this look like? I want to talk just one second around that as well, because I do know that there's a lot of, like, heart and emotion opinions attached to when you do that. So. Because today we're talking about business lessons and opinions and all the emotions and all the feelings. Can you tell me about when you knew you needed to rebrand and were you worried that people were going to be upset about it? Were you worried that people were not going to understand the direction or. Just tell me a little bit about that.

Yeah. So I knew going. When I started my brand, I only had a certain amount of money to do packaging and branding and all of that stuff. And so I knew within two to three years that I was going to have to revamp everything to take it up a notch. But I was scared to lose the customers that really connected with the brand and the esthetic and the look and feel of it, because, you know, we did pretty well the first two years of our business. And I was very scared that I was going to lose those customers by changing the aesthetic. And so I spent a lot of time having conversations with people that I aspired to be a brand for, whether it be customers or whether it be retailers. I really wanted to understand, like, what. What they were looking for in a brand. And so I would spend time going to Neiman Marcus, to Nordstrom, to Sephora, and just having conversations with the buyers and those different retailers or even just store managers to ask them, you know, what do they look for? What are their favorite brands and why? Like, what types of packaging would they like to see on shelves? Like, what are brands that are doing well? What are brands that are not doing well? And then even talking to our customers, I realized that people loved the scents and the fragrances and the way that the fragrances and scents made them feel. And it was so much deeper than the superficial branding that I had in my head. I thought it was so much more about specifics around packaging, you know, all of those things. And it was much deeper than that. And so. But it was hard to shred. It was very personal. The first round was very, very personal to me, especially because my story is so personal and so deep. But we did, we just, we launched all of our rebrand over the last week or two and the feedback we've been getting has been phenomenal and our scents are still there, still the same sense. So at the end of the day, the heart is still with the brand. And I think that's the most important thing.

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Did you get any opinions at all or did you just block anything negative at all or what did you do?

I did both. I hired some consultants to get some professional opinions and then I, like I said, I talked to a ton of retailers and customers. It was interesting. The, the consultants that I hired, some of them were absolutely wonderful and gave me beautiful, beautiful feedback. It helped me build the rebrand that I have today. And then others just didn't quite connect with the level of depth that I was working for, looking for within the brand. And you know, my gut was telling me, no, this isn't the right direction. And there's so many times that like I get gut feelings. Most of the time I listen to the gut feelings, but sometimes I don't or I'm not quite in tune with my body enough to actually know that they're there, you know, when I make a wrong turn or a wrong decision. But for me, gut feelings really are guardian angels and they literally tell you what you should be doing or what's right and what isn't. And so at the end of the day, I really listened to my customers and what they loved and resonated with about the brand. And then Obviously talk to a lot of the larger retailers that, you know, someday will maybe be in to just get an understanding from a business perspective what is required from a labeling perspective, UPC perspective, an ingredient panel perspective, you know, legally, to make sure that I would be able to enter larger retailers if that's something I chose to do one day.

So. Good. All right. So you kind of just segued for me perfectly about Guardian Angels being gut feelings. And I have found that the more people I get involved in my business, the more I drown out that very important voice. Because I say, well, they're the professional, they should know. And while I think that input is, like, vital to hear, because sometimes they do know, right? Like if you want to go into retail and you're like, no, no, this is the way, sometimes yeah, but sometimes, yeah, you're not getting in there unless you're a certain way or you tweak some things to fit things specifications and needs. And maybe the customer is totally different than you think within their stores, things like that. So. But gut feelings go far beyond that as well. What is your relationship like with your gut right now? And how do you. How are you constantly trying to tweak it and listen in?

I would say I spent the first year of my business making bad decisions in terms of like hiring people because exactly what you said. I didn't think I knew what I wanted or I thought that they had more experience or expertise than I did on certain things. And when I look back at all the decisions that I made within that first year, I've unwound almost all of them to go back to my original gut feeling and what my intent was for the brand. And even customers feedback and thoughts have unwound all of the things that I actually hired and paid somebody for. And so it's. I do a little bit of both. I love, like, listening to people's opinions. I love, you know, masterminds, courses, all of those different things. But I think what's super important for me is to then take a step back, spend some time alone. So, like, I have like years that are just push where I'm going in. I'm learning, I'm listening to other people, I'm understanding and reviewing market and industry trends. And then I take some time to, like, just be quiet. I go inward. I do my twice a year alone trips where, like, it's just me by myself three to four days in like a remote location just to hear my inner voice and almost like recalibrate myself to actually hear what that gut feeling is. And then I create a strategy forward, and then I just move forward with that strategy.

That's so good. I mean, because we don't. You don't really hear it. You need to go to a place where you are not listening to podcasts, reading books, and. Because they can really feel like your own opinions, because you can get excited. Oh, my gosh. I feel like I literally had one today that I was just like, oh, oh, here's. Here's something I want to ask you and point out. I feel like when it's not in alignment with you, even though it's an exciting idea, let's say if I'm speaking on something or someone wants me to. They asked me to be on their stage, but they want me to speak on a specific topic. That's not really for me. Or I've, you know, submitted book proposals, and they're like, but maybe you could do this instead of. And it's usually attached to something where it's like, hey, you get to be on the stage, but we want you to talk about this. Or we think we get you a better book deal if you talk about this. And they're not things that I can, like, I can't find my roots. And that's when I kind of start to know that I need that quiet time is if it's something that feels shiny and like, oh, this is going to get me something. But I can't find the solid ground to, like, run on. I can't see the full path. I can't get my bearings. I can't seem to, like, put it together. It's taking a really long time. It feels really challenging. How about for you when it doesn't feel authentic? What are some of your signs?

I think it's similar to yours, I think, through a couple different scenarios. One, is this going to move my business forward in a material way in which I can then move my message forward in a material way? But the opportunity has to be one that feels authentic to me and my brand, because if it doesn't, then people are always watching, right? And they're going to take a step back and be like, that was just kind of odd. Like, is she changing direction? Is she changing strategy? Like, what's going on here? And they kind of disconnect, and they don't. They don't continue to hit that level of depth with your brand that you're really. You're really wanting them to. But there. I mean, there are times when an opportunity will get your brand in front of a whole bunch of different eyes that maybe you wouldn't have an opportunity to do otherwise. But if it's feeling that much out of alignment for you, and if I have to think about it that hard, then it's probably a no. Another opportunity will come. There are always, always, always more opportunities that will come. And when you say no to the things that don't feel really, really good or are not in alignment, you're literally opening up space and time for the things that are to come into your life. And this last year has been such a year of that for me specifically. Like, even our collaboration, I said no to a couple of other things that just didn't feel good. And then all of a sudden, like, you and I were just having a conversation one day, and because I said no to those things, it allowed me to have the time to create a beautiful scent with you that people loved and still talk about to this day.

Hopefully there's more. Yeah, there will be more. I also want to share for anybody listening to that. I've had some moments where maybe it was presented to me that the people think they really want me to speak on this, and I just tell them, that's not my zone of genius. I won't do well on stage because it won't be authentic. But is there an opportunity for me to talk about this instead? And I'm actually surprised how many people totally let go of the original concept and say, yeah, actually, you know what? I think that this could work over here or look like this. So don't just take that as. Even though they're pitching you. That doesn't mean that that's the only thing that they want you to fit into. Like, there's usually a little wiggle room, especially if you have so much conviction when you talk about your brand. Like, when I hear you talk about your brand, you have so much conviction. That could. If I was having, like, a candy store opening, I'd be like, well, you know what? That sounds like I could make room for you because you just love your brand so much. Exactly. That we need candles while you drink candy.

So I think that's a good point. Is, like, every opportunity that comes your way, it should be negotiated.

Yes. Every.

Every conversation, every business opportunity. Like, I think I just got used to doing that in my corporate career that I do. I have that mindset going into, like, different types of opportunities. But every opportunity, like, if you're close, if you're like, 50% there, just ask for what you want. You'd be shocked at how many times that you Get a yes. And if it's a no, well then that literally just validated that the opportunity wasn't right for you to begin with.

I, I love that and I love that topic just for a second. We'll, we'll touch on that. Because I think it's really important if we're talking about hard business lessons is in the beginning, especially if you have a lot of promise, there's going to be a lot of people who are going to try to get you to sign contracts or there's going to be people who something look really shiny. I have a couple girlfriends right now who have signed some contracts that just, they are bad contracts. And you know, their, their brands are facing major challenges right now because they're really stuck. They're not able to like do the things that they want to do because in the beginning it was, it was presented in such an amazing way. And I can be honestly, I'll tell you, I probably would have taken them as well because you just need someone else to look at your stuff. You need someone who's been there before and someone ahead of you. And I know that that's a big thing for you as mentors and that you have a lot of people that you consult, which I'm working on putting that together and reaching out to even more people. But tell me a little bit about why mentors, especially when it comes to just contracts and directions, are important to these business lessons.

I think there's. They've saved me millions of dollars. It's literally that simple. The people that I have mentoring me have a, they're running billion dollar businesses, multi billion dollar businesses. And they have learned these lessons that I am learning the hard way. They've these millions of dollars, they've lost their own personal money. You know, I look at my dad who built a really beautiful company and sold it and learned so much stuff throughout his entire journey. My own mentor, like, has built several businesses. And I think to be able to ask somebody to be a mentor to you, to teach you to literally just have someone. I, I really like to use my mentors as like almost auditing my gut feeling because I think there's a, there's a fine line between you need to make sure you're acting not out of emotion but really out of a place of logic. And sometimes, especially when it's your own business, emotion tends to override the logic at times. And I like to use mentors to kind of gut check big decisions or gut check. Is my gut feeling the right direction that I should Be going in and always ask. I mean, I always consult lawyers. Always. Every day, all day. Contracts are a huge, huge deal. And I always want to make sure that I have an out if, you know, if the contract or the business relationship isn't going the right way.

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So where did you find some of your mentors? How did you find them? Because people are probably listening, going, oh, God. Well, I don't even know where to start. And my business is small and it seems so insignificant. And she has someone who runs billions of dollars in, like, I'm so intimidated by that. Like, how did you get your mentors?

I asked. I researched my favorite companies, companies that I want to aspire to be one day. I did a ton of research to figure out who those CEOs, CFO CEOs are who are running those companies. And I reached out on LinkedIn and asked if they'd be my mentors. Wow.

And they just said, sure. What does that look? What did that look like? Did you have to set the expectation or did you say, would you mentor me once a month for an hour? What does this look like?

So I really just sent, you know, a blanket email and got probably 90% no responses. And then what you have to expect, if you're, you know, I think starting any business, you have to expect the majority of any asks will be no's. But it just makes the yeses, like, so much more exciting when they come. So Yeah, I just sent. It was really a blanket statement. I talked a little bit about the background of my company, about the things that I wanted to do with the company, and just asked if they would be willing. Super simple. To mentor me as often as they had time for. So really kind of left it open for, hey, if you could mentor me once a year, I'll take it. I'll take any time that you possibly have. And so the mentors that I do have, I offered to get on a phone, just, like a Zoom call, to have a conversation so that they can meet me face to face and, like, learn about me and my brand, just to show them that I'm serious, that, you know, this brand is something that I am pouring my heart and soul and pocketbook into. And after those Zoom calls, it was. It was wonderful. Yeah. The relationships just kind of took off after that and has been extremely invaluable to me. Me. So just ask. Yeah.

I love the way that you phrased it, though, because I have some people that I kind of check in with.

Kind of.

I'm like, hey, are you free? I think I'm literally just gonna say, hey, would you just mentor me as often as you can?

Yeah. Yeah.

Because I feel bad. And it's so funny me saying that, because I always tell people not to feel bad, but there are these things that I call freedom phrases, and you just gave me a freedom phrase around that that frees me up from feeling bad. Like, hey, let's make this official. Let's put a ring on it.

Yeah, exactly. And they can always just say, no, I don't have time.

Exactly.

Not a big deal. Yep. Totally don't have time. They're, you know, they're successful people, but most of the time, they will find time to give back.

Yeah. And I love that you use them to help kind of process your emotions, which we're going to talk about in a second. Because sometimes you have these really big emotions, because up till this point, this is the biggest, most challenging thing that's happened to you. But you talk to a mentor who. This is, like, small potatoes. And all of a sudden, they're, like, telling you it's small potatoes, and you're like, it is. Oh. And you kind of, like, feel the emotion go down, because in the grand scheme, you're like, they've seen everything, and this is normal and normalizes what just happened to you, and you stop taking it personal. So let's talk about that, because, Kelly, I know that you're.

You.

You have, like, recently gone through Some stuff I've recently gone through. Some stuff I've gone through, some stuff in my past where it's big emotions, it's people that were in my circles who maybe have been saying things about me or judging my character or judging me as a business person or just as my. I know that this has happened to you. I know that you're kind of just like, processing some things right now. And so you and I have been going back and forth because it's very real and raw, and it's like, how do we process these emotions? What does that process of processing look like? And your dad gave some really awesome advice, too. So let's talk about that.

Yeah, I think for me, my husband always has this phrase, and it's put your corporate hat back on. In these situations, it was easier for me to disconnect a little bit from the emotion when it came to running my team or working with difficult vendors or contractors in a corporate environment, because I wasn't as deeply connected. And not to make that sound bad, I was, of course, deeply connected to my companies, doing well. But it wasn't like such a personal. Personal connection to my brand.

Personal brand. It's a little more personal.

It's very personal to me. You know, it's literally my legacy. And so when things come up, when somebody hurts me, when somebody in my, you know, inner circle, I'm hearing that they're talking badly about me, or when I have a difficult relationship with a contractor or somebody that I've hired to do work that doesn't complete the work in the manner in which we had agreed upon. Somebody who defaults on a contract. There's so many different examples of things that as an entrepreneur, you're going to deal with and you're going to deal with constantly. It's not going to go away.

It's just part of.

Part of business. And I think I would be so hurt by it in my new business that I would. I would go and have conversation with my husband, and he'd be like, okay, put that corporate hat back on. What would you do if you were managing. If you were back to managing your $2 billion worth of business? And I'd be like, oh, well, I would assess whether or not this relationship with this person or this business opportunity has a material impact on my business or my company. And I would make decisions accordingly versus coming from an emotional place and reacting with emotion. And then I. My dad said something to me that is just. It has stuck with me for. I mean, I think he said this to me in my 20s, so it stuck with me for a long time. But he always talked about, like thinking about a way that you're leaving, whether it's a business relationship or a contract relationship, or even a personal, a deeply personal relationship, is, he goes, equate it to, you are a ship or you are a boat. And the way that a ship or a boat leaves its location can either have a calm, peaceful wake behind it, or it could be a ship that literally guns it. And like all of a sudden it leaves these crazy ripples of waves that impacts everything around it. You want to be the ship that moves with grace and integrity from a situation, a quiet ship that moves away from a situation versus one that ruffles everybody's feathers and, you know, retaliates and gets angry because at the end of the day, it just reflected back on your character. And so that's kind of how I assess situations is I try to take a step back from a neutrality perspective and understand how it's impacting my business and then how I react with integrity in the softest yet strongest way possible.

And there was a time frame that you had chatted about too. You kind of have a rule around your responses. So tell us that, because I think everybody needs to stick to this rule.

Yeah, so I have a rule that any, any sort of decision or any sort of issue that is impacting me in an emotional way, I wait 48 to 72 hours to think through the decision or think through how to react to a relationship issue or a situation. Because I think typically within the first 24 hours is when people tend to react. And if you think about any time you have arguments with people in your life or you have issues in business, if you just wait a few days, things kind of calm down emotionally and the logic and the clarity becomes much clearer to see. And so, yeah, I have a rule of 48 to 72 hours to make any major decision, whether it comes to my business or my personal life.

I watched so many people in network marketing lose their businesses and lose their whole team in a matter of weeks because they did not know how to, to wait to respond. Yeah, and it just started these flare ups of fights with the people who were making them the most money or vice versa. And that was the main way that I would watch people dissolve. And thankfully I watched that a couple times before I had some of my big things come and I was like, oh, so this is like the long game. It's kind of like the person who can have the weight that's Very calm. Because this world is small. It is so small. And your reputation in business and if people want to work with you or not is. I mean, it is everything.

It's.

It's funny. I was commenting on a network marketer. I was like, oh, I think their business is doing great. Like, this is so cool. I have no idea who this person is. I just follow them online, and someone was like, yeah, but they're a psycho. And everybody doesn't want to work with them now because it's getting out. And I'm like, oh, well, that won't last long because I don't even know this person. And someone who doesn't even is already out. So it's like, you have no idea that bad news travels fast. And if you can. Now, that's interesting, because I don't think gossip travels as fast as we think, but I do think real bad news, like, oh, that's not a great person to work with. I. I think that travels fast. So let's talk about that kind of the. When you're in it, when you think that somebody is talking about you, when you feel like your reputation is on the line, like, it's just. It's one person, right? It starts with one, but you feel like they've told a bunch of people or whatever that looks like, because maybe you heard it from one or two or maybe there was a small group of people that this was set in. It feels like your world is crumbling, and you feel like you want to go and do what, Recon? Yeah. You want to go do recon? You want to fix it. I want to get on the phone with the circle of people. I want to call that person out. I want to make sure everybody knows that they're wrong. I want to bring justice.

Yes, justice.

Let's talk about this cycle and how to respond and what's actually happening.

That feeling of justice, though, when does that typically happen? Within the first 24 hours that you hear of this incident. And so I think, yeah, I have definitely had justice moments because it's fantasy.

Justice fantasy, where you bring to light all the bad that this human is.

I'm going to correct everything this human said. I think at the end of the day, though, like, you. You again, wait a couple days, let yourself process. Most likely that person is hurting themselves for something, for some reason. What's the phrase? Like, hurt people hurt people. Like, it's typically more about them than it is about you. But it takes some distance from the issue or the situation for you to kind of see a Little bit more clarity, typically. And for me, if it, if it's a situation where it's not materially impacting the money that is coming into my business or the ability that I have to work with others, whether it's finding good employees or finding good business partnerships or business relationships or contractors or vendors, then it's probably not worth my time to dive in and bring that justice to light. Because it probably doesn't matter that much. But if it is something that is materially impacting your business, it goes back to the contracts. Making sure you have good contracts in place that clearly outline things like, you know, confidentiality agreements, non disparagement clauses. So that if someone is, you know, talking about you in a negative light and it is impacting your business, you have some legal recourse to take if need be.

And most of the time, most of the problems that maybe people are dealing with right now who are listening, it might feel really big. But we've learned through all of the times we have been talked about, gossiped about or whatever that that looks like in business or, you know, people I don't know just making judgments. It's so much smaller than you think. I mean, we had one go through our entire network marketing team and, and I thought it was like the death of Chris and I because it was a. Not a super fun. I think the comment was like that we don't care about people and we only want you for your money and we're going to treat you like shit.

And all these things.

And this was going through our team, from our team team, and this was at events we were throwing while we were there and people were like, they're in the corner saying these things right now. So it really did feel very real. It felt like my world was crumbling. And what we ended up doing on that was literally almost cutting ties as much as we could from that person, but never talking about them. We never said one bad thing to anyone on our team. Even if it got back to us from somebody, we'd say, you know, I think that they're just like in fear. I don't know, they're probably worried about X, Y and Z or whatever this looks like. And that was the hardest year of my life ever to do that. And what ended up happening for anyone listening is the more that we took the high road, the more some of these people who even got gossip to came to us and said, oh my gosh, we can see what was going on. Like she has a bunch of stuff kind of burning down right now. And she's doing this everywhere in her life, and she's done this now to 30 different people, and it comes out. And so for me at the time, it was like, well, I would have loved to do something legally or whatever that looks like, but it's kind of like on your actual team and what do you do? So there's some things that I think that you just, you kind of have to continue to take the high road. And if I'm being honest, it kind of went away. It just felt like it was there consistently. But maybe there were five incidences, right, where this person did this to people, where it was like, do the people really matter who are actually listening to this?

Well, and that's the thing. Like, it's going to happen.

Yeah, it's.

It happens to everybody. It happens to every business. I mean, you see all the time, you know, all of these issues.

Go read comments under anything successful, anything.

And like, also think about how many celebrity, like, oh my gosh, craziness happens and then literally four days later, it's gone and we're on to the next celebrity, whatever scandal that is happening. I mean, it, it's, it's human nature for people to talk about other people, but it's also human nature for people to. Again, goes back to the gut feelings, have gut feelings about who you are as a person and the people that know you and have interacted with you know that all of this swirl that is happening around you is not true. And I mean, aren't those the people that matter at the end of the day anyway? And so you're right, 99% of the time, it's not something that even needs to be addressed or actioned. It typically falls away on its own.

It's so much smaller than we think. If I would have actually went around that room and asked, I bet. No, I bet five people maybe heard it and it didn't go anywhere for the most part. It's like it felt like everybody in the room knew. And I'm like, it's because it's that emotional charge.

Yes.

It takes over your brain, it takes over your body. This is why make no decisions. Talk to one, to two people who you know you can trust just to process the emotion. Because like we said in the beginning, this is where businesses are lost, this is where your dreams die. Is when we get caught up in these things that aren't things, they're other people's things. And, you know, like you said, hurt people, hurt people. So much of it is just ego, their egos are hurt because maybe you surpass them. Their egos are hurt because maybe they are worried that they look stupid or they got vulnerable with you, and they think that maybe you're saying things even though you're not. There's a lot of ego involved in. In business and relationships, and it's just remembering they're probably in fear of something. And like you said, I think it's. It's the realization of, when do I. When do I talk about this? And for the most part, it's probably something that you should just cut ties and let go. Yeah, let go and then see where it lands in. In two weeks to three months.

Yes. Even a year. A year?

Honestly? Yes.

People change and people make poor judgment calls, poor decisions, and a lot of times they'll look back a few years later and be like, wow, I was not the nicest person. And we were talking earlier about, you know, literally, you let go and let God handle all of it. And because it's not. It's not our place to necessarily do so. So I rely on that a lot too. She's like, it's kind of out of my hands anyway. So it's how I react to it with integrity that matters the most to me.

And I think grace on yourself, if you're listening to this and maybe you've done some things you don't love or looking back, you know, there's moments where I'm like, oh, God, I did not say the thanks or take the. The care of some people who really took care of me. And it's like having the knowing, like, okay, let's reflect. I didn't know how to have the bandwidth yet. Now I'm not letting myself off the hook. But I'm also like, you can't move in business. You can't move through business and move through personal growth without going, okay, I see that I have grace for myself.

How can I be better?

Maybe. How could I go back and say, hey, I'm so sorry I didn't acknowledge you as well for. For all of the amazing things that you did and can't move forward without massive grace for ourselves, too. So if you're like, o God, having a kick me moment, please don't. It gets you nowhere. Yeah, like, have a. How can I be better next time? And how cool is it that I have this realization? Because if you weren't a good person, you wouldn't have the realization.

So true. It's so true.

So if you haven't, you feel bad, like, just know, okay, you're you're doing fine. All right, so how do you move through. Okay, we already talked about justice, which we're going to just not put our justice capes on anymore for now. But how do you. How do you move through relationships that don't necessarily align with your core values of yourself or your company? Even though maybe they somehow wound up in your company or in your life and they're all of a sudden making a significant contribution to your business or can make a significant contribution to your business, how do we really learn to manage those relationships? When do we call it, like, a no? And when do we say, hey, this is like your mentor says, I'd love for you to touch on that. I mean, if you're treating it like you're running, let's talk about that.

Yeah. So I had a situation in which I had somebody that I was working with that at first the relationship felt, like, really good. Like, I was super excited and pumped about it. And then it just kind of like, as I kind of started moving through the process and contracts were signed and we were starting working together, things just kind of to start to feel a little bit out of alignment. And. And I took this to my mentor and said, you know, I. I feel a little out of integrity now working with this person. Like, how. How do I move through this relationship knowing that this could be a really beautiful opportunity for my brand and to get my message within my brand out there? And he had such interesting feedback for me, and he said, well, imagine if you were running, you know, a $2 billion business. Are you vetting every single person that you work with? Are you diving into every person's social media that you do a collaboration with or that you partner with or that you hire as a vendor or a contractor? Sometimes you need to take a step back, neutralize your emotions within a situation, and do what's best for your business. Not to say that you want to be hiring people like, you know, are just awful people, but if it's a situation in which.

Which maybe a core value.

Yes. Yes.

Or maybe a different belief system, or maybe they handle themselves in a way you don't necessarily love, but they've got incredible people following them, and you align with most things, but at the same time. Yeah. Or maybe, like, maybe one of your friends doesn't like them or maybe whatever. Whatever it is. Like these. More like these little personal nuances.

Yeah.

And this is interesting because I'm. I'm going into this as well, where it's just like, working with different teams and different collaborations. And different influencers. And you know, there's going to be some influencers who really, I know they're going to move the needle on my new product, but maybe I don't love certain beliefs.

Right.

That they talk about.

Right.

And it's like, do I need everything to align and get pissed about it or worry about what people are going to think or do I know in the grand scheme of how the world works that it's like and just how you need to be open to so many different ideas. And if we, if we did this, if we actually started doing this with everyone, we'd all find something we don't like or we'd find someone who could have something to say about somebody.

When I think you said it, you literally just said it in a much better way than I said it. It is being open minded about things and about situations and about people. We spend so much time like judging people from a social media profile or judging people based off of what somebody else said about that person without like actually spending time developing your own thoughts and your own relationship with that person. And like earlier us saying like hurt people, hurt people. Like you never know what somebody else has on. And so to make like a snap judgment on somebody based off of things you may be hearing or maybe like an off, off brand comment or something that like makes you question the relationship. You know, my mentor was just kind of like, take yourself out of the emotional piece of it, focus on the business, move the business forward. Unless they're doing something that is detrimentally damaging to you or your brand or society in general, you know, there's no way that you're going to be able to, you know, no. Everything, you don't know everything about everybody. And so you just have to move with integrity and do the best that you, that the very best that you can.

It's like a 30,000 foot view. Like if you zoomed out, is this person gonna move the needle and do they have a great audience fit and are they gonna keep the message with integrity?

Yes.

And do most people for the most part really like this person?

Yes.

Is it, you know, somebody who, who helps people?

Yeah.

Or whatever that looks like. Or is it a store that people love or does it get, you know, the people that you want in front of the brand? And of course she's, you know, said the obvious things like is this person a murderer? Have they done time? I don't know. And if you have done time, obviously there's that too. I'm like, great, you're a new person. I love what you're doing now. But with that said, I also just want to point out, like, things can be very isolated to certain people as well. I've had great relationships with people who other people don't get along with, who they like actually can't stand, or they.

Had a falling out.

Except I'm like, I don't know how much of that I can actually take for truth because I don't know what the nuances at the time were, what they were dealing with and what you were triggering within them or maybe what that looked like. So whenever I hear somebody talk about someone or anything like that, I'm always like, there's too many nuance, nuances within the relationship and time frame and how they're showing up for you. That I know lots of people who have shown up freaking amazing, you know, out for a ton of people, but maybe for one or two, it's like they've ruffled feathers or a contract has fallen, some. Something didn't work out.

And it's.

We're forgetting that each of us are having moments of lessons with people who. I think the more that you're on a growth track, it's people who probably matter a little bit more. So unfortunately, we don't get to learn the lessons quietly. When you're on a big track, you learn them loudly and in public. And I just, I never want. I want people to really think about this because I do think this is where people either thrive in their business or they lose their businesses. Is. It's really easy to want to judge people and separate and talk to people about this certain person or the certain company. And I just think that the person who is known for not talking about people and for always taking the high road and for being a really just clean energy, you know, focused on what they're focused on instead of against things. I think those are the brands that win.

Just acting with integrity, like, knowing that you've made mistakes, I've made mistakes. I probably, you know, have. Have hurt people unintentionally, haven't recognized people as much as I should have. And so to. When I was like, judging the situation, I was judging. And then, you know, having the conversation with my mentor was like, okay, why? There's so much more that's probably happening behind the scenes that you don't know. And I look back on the things that I may have done to other people and all the stuff that was probably going on behind the scenes. For me, it was such an aha. Moment of, okay, yeah, like, take Your elevate yourself. I love this. It's literally not even about any of this stuff going on because you're not in the place place to make those kind of judgments. So. Exactly. Just act with grace and integrity. And the way you treat people is the way that most likely you'll get treated back.

I just love that check in point from your mentor who literally. I've been thinking about that a lot ever since you shared that with me. It was such a beautiful lesson for me of knowing what fires are going to get my attention. If I had a 2 billion dollar company, would this get my attention right now or would this be silly?

It'd be silly.

It'd be silly because you would be.

Like, things would be silly things to.

Focus on that in the grand scheme of. Of, you know, I was thinking about it today in the grand scheme of. Of pivoting having to tell someone a hard thing even though you're down the road with them on something that's not working anymore. Like, these would be so small that you'd have these answers like this and you'd move through it, and you'd move through it with grace and love. But you wouldn't get stuck there. Yeah, you wouldn't go to bed thinking about it. You wouldn't. Because you have bigger fish to fry.

The gossip and the judgment, it just sucks up so much emotional energy. So much that you're literally taking time away from the things that are, are making you money or moving the needle in your brand or changing the impact, shifting the impact that you're meant to make.

It's all about how much space you have in your head and what are you letting take up space. Because there's not a lot up there. There's not mine, mine anyway.

There's not a whole lot.

So we got to make sure the important things are up there and everything else is out so well. I'm so grateful for you. Is there anything else that you want to share before we go?

No. This is such a great conversation. I wish I had these insights when I started my own business a few years ago because it's the little things that you can get, like you said, so caught up in the swirl of it all that you take your eye off the ball and then the next thing you know, you're. You're not nearly where you want to be in business or even in just personal relationships.

You know, I love this conversation with you so much because it not only applies to everyone in business, but if you can just take these nuggets for Your personal relationships, just what, what is worth it and what's not. Because in the grand scheme, you're going to have a lot of relationships in life, Life. And I really think your happiness depends upon if you can process like this. And a lot. I know a lot of people who unfortunately are really lonely right now at this age, in our 30s, 40s. And, you know, I really look at, you know, my parents and their friends, and I remember they, they would tell me, like, you're gonna, you're gonna lose a lot of friends as you get older. Like, you kind of end up with no friends. And I remember thinking, oh, my God, that sucks. But I watch a lot of people because what happens is, is they just start to focus on the one thing that doesn't align with them instead of focusing on all of the things that do. And so I hope that people can take this and really find the good in what's working and who they're working with. And if it's not, you know, some.

Huge thing to let it go to, cut ties to make room.

So I'm so grateful for you. Where can we find you? Follow you? Most of all, where can we buy your stuff? Because it is truly, it is truly my favorite candle and scent line.

You can find us on Instagram at Kayla Gray Co or on our website, which is Kayla Gray dot com. It's C-A Y-L-A-G-R-A dash Y dot com. And we'll be opening up a shop also in downtown Phoenix in the middle of March. So we'd love to see you and oh, my God, I can't smell all the beautiful things there too.

I can't wait. It's a destination, you guys.

You gotta go to it. So much fun.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, we are so grateful for you. Definitely go find her, follow her, go buy her stuff, support her, because you're gonna, you're gonna want her to grow.

And bring you more products.

So until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.