The Spiritual Science to Unlock Your Potential, Create Soul Connections, and Overcome Depression with Dr. Lisa Miller

Women have almost like an actual need for spirituality.

Do you want to jump off there as you're suggesting? Women and men, all of us are born naturally spiritual beings. But for women, this capacity tends to be deeper and stronger and more essential to just literally the walk through life. So for women, big decisions. If you ask a hundred women, how did you make the most important decision in your life? Who you wanted to partner with, whether or not you carried a child, what job you took? If you ask 100 women, when the chips were down, how did you Decide at least 98 will speak to a deep form of spiritual knowing? I just knew it in my heart. God whispered in my ear. The universe gave me a synchronicity. Women know that the surest, most powerful form of knowing is spiritual awareness. Foreign.

Doctor Lisa Miller, thank you so much for coming on the earn your happy podcast.

I love what you do for women. I think you are amazing.

Well, thank you so much for that. I am a really. I. I am probably the most excited for this conversation that I've been in, in a. I mean, I love all my podcast guests, but this conversation is a little unique and it's a little bit different because we are going to explore all about spirituality and how it really impacts the brain, how it impacts depression, anxiety, relationships. And also when we were just talking off camera, you were talking about how women have almost, almost like an actual need for spirituality.

Do you want to jump off there most important point? So as you're suggesting, women and men, all of us, are born naturally spiritual beings, but for women, this capacity tends to be deeper and stronger and more essential to just literally the walk through life. So for women, big decisions. If you ask a hundred women, how did you make the most important decision in your life? Who you wanted to partner with, whether or not you carried a child, what job you took. If you ask 100 women, when the chips were down, how did you Decide at least 98 will speak to a deep form of spiritual knowing? I just knew it in my heart. God whispered in my ear. The universe gave me a synchronicity. Women know that the surest, most powerful form of knowing is spiritual awareness. Now, unfortunately, women don't always feel authorized to bring that forward. If you say to the same hundred women, you know, you're in a boardroom, you're in a classroom, you're at a job interview, and you're being asked, how did you make the most important decision ever? Maybe half, maybe as few as a third would feel comfortable publicly owning that the most important form of knowing for Them is spiritual awareness. Why is that? Why on earth is that? Right? And this is where we are at, the third wave of a bright, inclusive feminist movement. The first wave was voting. The second was good jobs. And the third is that we can bring a woman's way of knowing into the center of society. And we've got to say it out loud now.

That's so interesting. So, you know, there's a couple things that pop into my head. The first one was, I feel like in the last 10 years, when you've kind of watched spirituality and personal development become a lot more mainstream, what I even saw happen amongst my friends who were, you know, at the time, like 20s and 30s, and now 30s and 40s, was we all start getting these spiritual awakenings which we'll talk about, and, you know, like, oh, my gosh, this awareness that this having the spirituality in our life does really impact our life. And I know what I did to my husband was that I wanted him to feel the same about spirituality and what I was experiencing and the books I was reading and the. The impact and the downloads and I. I feel like he was a little bit slower to it and maybe not as passionate. And I remember that it was having such a profound impact on my life. And, you know, all of these other women were feeling the same way too, that we were almost like feeling a little upset with our husbands that they weren't coming along or going as fast. Do you have any thoughts around how to kind of approach that when you've maybe met different women who are feeling like, oh, my God, this is a necessity, and feeling like it's an absolute necessity for them as well?

It is a necessity for us as women to honor, to take as hard knowing as valid our spiritual awareness that that synchronicity is real and act on it. That that intimation in my heart, that gut instinct is the surest form of information that in my prayer life I am being directed. For women, it is essential, but we can allow the men in our lives to walk their walk. They don't need to be our identical twin. And as magnificent and revelatory and empowering and essential spiritual life is for women. Yes, men are spiritual, but not every man necessarily wants to have spirituality as his lead strike foot. And that's okay. We don't need to marry our identical twins. We don't need to, you know, ask men to behave as women any more than we would want to be asked to dress up and act as men. So let them be in. In fact, what the data says is that very often the passage of spiritual awareness through the family goes through women. Whether or not it's landing in a daughter or a son, it's through the mother that the strength of spirituality is built. The child's born with it, but it has to cultivate it. You know, knowing how to meditate or pray, understanding, you know, what a synchronicity really is. This type of thing really comes through the voice of the mother. Intergenerational passing of the torch is from grandmother to mother to grandchildren.

So what if you've had, you know, in your family just a completely different. It wasn't spirituality, maybe it was very religious. So that undertone was not like this need for deep connection. I know in my family it was more of a fear based religion. So it wasn't a place of comfort. It was a very fearful and very disconnected, almost, almost encouraged to be disconnected by not seeking out anything that would have to do with spirituality.

So, Laurie, you're really converging on the most important finding in science, which is religion and spirituality. They can go hand in hand and do for about 2/3 of people, but they're not the same thing. Religion are faith, traditions, whether it's the ceremonies, the texts, the community. Religion is a gift of parents and grandparents. It is environmentally transmitted through the lens of science. If you look through what scientists call a twin study, however, spirituality, the capacity to be in a transcendent relationship that is loving and guiding and never leaves us alone. A transcendent relationship. That capacity in each and every one of us is innate. And in fact, this innate capacity for spiritual awareness has circuits in the brain that are the same for every one of us. So we can strengthen these circuits. And there's human variability, just as there might be with music or art or math. But we all have the same spiritual brain. Eight billion spiritual brains on earth. Which means that nobody is left out, nobody's not spiritual. It's not a matter of am I spiritual? It's how do I realize this gift that I've been given to see into life at a deeper level and to feel the love and guidance that's literally there baked into life. But it's up to us to open our eyes, pay attention and engage.

So I want all of those answers on how. But I'm going to go back to. I want to go back to what you had talked about with decision making. So how, you know, women are. We're maybe not going to tell people how we came to that decision or we are going to ignore, you know, what we feel in our Gut. Or we've just pushed it down for so long that some of us maybe don't feel like we have access to it. So can you tell me a little bit about how to kind of awaken that portion of us, how to trust it, even when we've made the wrong decisions and sometimes we still will.

So, Laurie, as women, many of us, I would even say most of us, have at some point been told that that deep inner knowing somehow is not real. Oh, that's just an instinct. That's just a hunch. How do you really know that? What's the data? Right. And so many women have felt invalidated for voicing their spiritual awareness that they've stopped even listening. And we have a choice, every single one of us. We can help ourselves and we can help each other along when we use our spiritual voice. If I tell you, you know, Laurie, I just had this deep sense of knowing that I really wanted to talk to you. You know, something in me said, I just know. I can feel, I can resonate that she's on a spiritual path. That's data. I had this deep sense of knowing. If I were to say, Lori, it was such a synchronicity. Just as I was thinking of your podcast, my booker called and said, you know what they said? Yes, they'd love to have a discussion. Right? Okay. Synchronicity. Two points of confirming data that says, let's have a conversation right now. I know that your podcast is very popular, but I never got on and looked to see how many people listen. That's a data driven point of view. I didn't make the decision because I looked to see, you know, the broad range of people who listen or who are sponsoring. I didn't do all that. I just knew in my heart. So women make decisions because we just know in our heart. The proof is in the pudding. It pans out over time. Sometimes husbands, to your point, know that their wives or their partners have this deep sense of knowing and will defer to it and honor it, as traditionally been the case in many societies. So I'll give you an example. I know a couple in which they were carrying a child that the first round of tests identified to be a very high risk child. The data from the blood work was not promising at all. And so the woman carrying the baby went into the doctor, looked over the numbers and said, something in my heart just knows this baby is fine. I just know it in my heart. The doctor said, okay, go see next level specialist. Next level specialist. She goes in. The numbers are run Again, the numbers are terrible. The specialist is a woman, and the mother turns to her and says, I just know in my heart this baby's okay. The specialist, very high risk OB picks up the data, sets it aside, and said, I've told you what the numbers say. I want you to know. It's been my experience that when a woman just knows in her heart that the child is okay, no matter what the numbers say, the child has been okay. And it's been my experience that no matter what the numbers say, how good they might be, when she knows in her heart something's wrong, often something's wrong. Okay, that OB made a choice. She could have stopped the meeting at the data, but she went on to validate that woman's inner sense of knowing. Okay, Months later, the baby's born, the baby's healthy. Had they listened to the data alone, they would not have made the best decision. So this is something that women need to honor. Your knowing is very powerful. You see, Laurie, you ask, how do we as women honor this capacity with which we've been given three steps? Listen. That tiny whisper of a hunch, that synchronicity, that little gut instinct or flicker in your prayer life. Listen. Two, take it as real. Honor it. Think about the times when you have listened to direct knowing, and has that panned out? Has that ever really steered you wrong? True, certain, direct knowing? And then three, right. Listen. Take it as real. Act on it. It's very easy to say, I had the most incredible synchronicity or I just knew this was true, and then do nothing about it. Act on it. And when we develop the practice of listen it's real. Act on becomes easier and easier, and a go to way of acting. That's the first thing that women need to know. Listen and trust yourself. You are extraordinary. You are an extraordinary, amazing knower. The second thing for women is to practice transcendent awareness, to practice the connection to your higher power. For some women, that's a walk in nature and feeling how they're guided as they walk along the beach, as they walk through the forest. For some women, it's in prayer or meditation that they feel a presence. They feel loved and held. They feel guided. And then for some women, there are spiritual visualizations just in the language of life that can foster the transcendent relationship.

Do you want to try one? Sure, let's do it.

Beautiful. Okay. I invite you to just take a moment. Take a breath. Clear out your inner space. And now take five breaths to open up your inner chamber. Foreign. Your inner Chamber. I invite you to set before you a table. This is your table. Into your table, you may invite anyone, living or deceased, who truly has your best interest in mind. Anyone, living or deceased, who truly has your best interest in mind. And with them all sitting there, ask them if they love you. Ask them if they love you. And now you may invite your higher self, the part of you that is so much more than anything you may have done or not done, anything that you may have or not have, your true, eternal, higher self, and ask you if you love you. And now, finally, you may invite your higher power, however, you know, whatever word is yours, your higher power, and ask if they love you. And now, with all those people sitting here right now, what do they need to tell you now? What do they need to share? What do you need to know? And when you're ready, I invite you back.

That's a really good one.

Mm.

That's a really good one because.

It.

Makes things really clear. I was like, oh, I'm not going to ask him that question because I already know the answer. Isn't that interesting?

That's.

That's really amazing. I hope everybody listening got to do that. And if not, if you were driving for any reason, go into it, because that is a beautiful exercise for decision.

Making, and it's in the language of life, of truth. So those who truly have our best interest in mind, our higher self and our higher power, these are all sacred relationships. These are all real relationships. And we are built in our heart and in our deep knowing, our mind, our soul, to feel and know the guidance in our deep, sacred relationships, these transcendent relationships. And everyone at your table is always there. Always. Whether or not at that moment we happen to be attending to the sacred relationships in our lives. They walk with us. And who shows up can change depending on where we are in our journey.

Yeah, I was just going to say, you know, even if this was, like, three years ago, I think the table would have looked very different.

Wow.

Just because actually, in the last couple of years, well, three years, I've made it, like, such an intention of deepening certain relationships.

So.

So, yeah, that's interesting. So for anybody who maybe doesn't feel like they had a lot of people.

At their table or had to kind.

Of work really hard to find who that would be for them, who felt like they really had their back, like, that can absolutely be turned around, too. So I. I think, oh, Laurie, that's.

Such an important point. This is an opening. This is not some type of statement of my life. How well I've done or a fait accompli. This is an opening. And if there's no one in one of those chairs or I'm not quite sure who would be there, that's an invitation then to cultivate the deep love and unconditional care that puts someone on the table. Yeah.

So for, you know, female relationships, especially as you're older and so many people that I have met on my journey that I've probably attracted because we had similar backgrounds, you know, they're transitioning from friend groups a lot of times and maybe they find that they are not fitting into that initial friend group that they used to have. Whether it's because they're now into spirituality or they're now an entrepreneur or now they are. Their beliefs don't align with maybe where their friends were. What would you say for trying to attract just those aligned people instead of like chase people who maybe they think are in a certain group? What's a good. Do you have an exercise or any thoughts around what it looks like to really attract the people that you'd want to deepen that relationship with, to have at that table?

Yes. You know, Laurie, that's so important. The table can let us know how truly loving and real our relationships are. So I'll give you an example. There was a very well known clothes designer who did this exercise. And after this person did the exercise, the comment was, wow, the only person at my table was my mother.

Wow.

I am surrounded by people all day fawning on me and nobody showed up at my table. Oh, my mother.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. And then the person said, this is an opening about what I have to do to have meaningful relationships in my life. That is not some sort of diagnostic. No one wins or loses because of what who shows up at their table. This is a beginning in our own. You know, we are the captains of our ship. We are the ones on this precious journey. And when things go wrong, we're not off the spiritual path, we're on it. That discomfort, that frustration, that disappointment that no one's in chair number one, we're on the spiritual path. And that say, ah, what a gift in this inspired way to see that I have chairs to fill.

I love that so much. I think that being in that place can feel really lonely. But it can also, like you said, just be such a massive opportunity of the amount of room they have for feelings of deep connection and fulfillment through relationships. And that's been been insanely profound for me about my level of happiness connected to how deep my relationships are and how much I do feel like people have my back. Like, I feel like a completely. Like I have a completely different life now because of that. So it's actually a really exciting thing to know that you have the opportunity to, to feel so held in your life. And like I said, it doesn't take that long. Sometimes it can just be a, a one to three year thing and you can have that whole table full, you know.

Lori, that's so beautiful. You did it. What did you do so that you in your heart were connecting authentically with someone who would really be at your table?

I had a massive realization that, you know, if I would stop pursuing certain people that I wanted to be friends with, that they wouldn't be pursuing me. And so I had a moment of, oh, I'm chasing. They're not chasing me. Like, nobody's wanting me. So I had the moment of, I only want to be with people who want me to, like, who feel that, like, desire to want to be my friend. And so what ended up happening is, I think in the, you know, when you're trying to build your career, there's so much around networking and, and being in the right spaces and. And I'm just gonna be so real, like, perception of being with the right people. And you can get very mixed up in your head of the difference between a transactional friend and who can, you know, help build a career, rather than someone who really is gonna be in your life and has your back your whole life. So what I started doing was when I was in these different rooms of aligned people. So maybe they were entrepreneurs. Whether it was early entrepreneurs or they were ahead of me or way behind me, I just started to notice how I felt around people and what kind of, I guess what kind of like, role they were playing in my life. So maybe someone was way behind me in business, but they just. I really valued who they were in their relationships or maybe their fitness level. Like, they had something that I really enjoyed and loved and I could allow them to fill that role and not have to check off all of the traits and desires that I wanted in this perfect human and friend, because that doesn't exist. So I really leaned into going, how do I feel around you? That was number one. I have to feel free myself, not judged. Like, the weirdest version of me needs to be able to come out, to really start letting them in. And then when I notice that, I would take big leaps of faith and invite them, like, to our lake house for a weekend and be like, well, I'm either all in or I'm all out by the end of this weekend. But I will tell you, like you said, Lisa, with trusting your gut, one did not go wrong because I did not invite anyone there who didn't make me feel good.

So you listen to your heart, you listen to your deep inner knowing. What I love about your story, Laurie, is that so often in our society, relationships are relentlessly transactional. Now, there's nothing wrong with a business, business deal and a gracious, polite business deal. We're aware that we're doing a transaction in that moment. But that is not a deep, abiding friendship that lands at the table. And what I feel is so important is to know the difference between what you described, this chronic transactional nature of our society, what I call really our achieving awareness. You know, what is the business we have at hand? What could I set up with this person? Strategically, tactically, that's all fine and good, that's business. But that is only one side our lives are achieving brain equally. In fact, I'd say, as you put it so beautifully, more important is our awakened brain. And our awakened brain is less about tactics and strategy and much more about what is life showing me now? What is being revealed to me now? What is God or my higher power, the universe, pointing to right now? And our awakened awareness doesn't get things. It reveals the deepest, most profound part of our lives and then we can send the achiever after it. But we awakened awareness needs to drive our lives. In other words, the heart sets true north and the hand can accomplish. The hand shouldn't set to true north of the hand, you know, what do I want and how am I going to get it and why didn't I get it? If the hand has more power than the heart, then everything's about, well, competition. And she is more than me and I feel so little compared to her. And it's so empty and it's so striving and it hurts, it feels horrible and it's depressing and it's anxious and all we have to do, any one of us, is flip the switch to what you said and say, hey, what is life showing me now? What is my heart showing me now? I really love hanging out with her. She makes me laugh. I asked the question, do you love my soul? And boy, how I sure love your soul, you know. So if you changed in your physical bio bodysuit and if you lost or gained everything, would I still look right into your eyes and just adore your soul?

That's such A good question. That's a great question for us to ask. I mean, just going down our friend list of like, oh, that's going to bring a major awareness of like, oh, there were times in my life where I'd go, maybe I'm actually like coming from kind of not a super clean, intentional place. And that's probably not going to work out well for the relationship in the long run, you know, and it's a two way street. Yeah.

Love her soul. And does she. Is she able to see your soul? Yeah, and sometimes, you know, sometimes I'm not sure. And it takes a little time and sometimes it grows. It can start as perhaps, you know, there's many people we met in a group. We were all out together and we're just getting to know each other. But the bottom line is, in time, does this person really love my soul? If I lost all my money, if I was hit by a bus and looked very different, would she love me? Would she show up? Would she have coffee? Would she laugh? Would she really want to be with me? And hey, honestly, would I?

Mm, yeah. That those are such good questions. And yeah, I'm like going through my friends, I'm like, okay, that's. That feels so good at this point to be able to answer that because of how they were formed. So, yeah, so great.

And that's a choice and a practice. So I call what you're doing relational spirituality. A connection between two souls on earth. And it can be with our partner, it can be with a good girlfriend, a woman friend. It can be with anyone. It can be with. Even with someone at work. I mean, even if someone hires or fires me at work, it can be done with relational spirituality. They're treating me as a soul on earth. Sometimes at work, someone can come at us in a way that is not soul on earth. And the question is, how do we hold that deep seat of intention and of sacred connection? We as women are like a fountain, a source. We can allow pass through us like a vessel, the sacred presence, even when everyone around us isn't acting that way.

So for you, when you are, you know, how do you relate that? Is there things that you do when it's even relationships that you're going to get in business wise, is there something that you kind of sit back and do questions that you ask yourself?

Yes. So before I maybe make a business arrangement, before I sign on for a project, before I shape a project, I will. For me, my practice is prayer for me in the language that's mine. And everyone has their own beautiful, sacred language. For me, I breathe, I go into nature to help awaken. And for me, I say, loving God, source of all life, please align me that I might be you like, as we are all, like, raised from the sun emanations of God, right? That I might be of you, that I might see you so in this work that we do together in our precious short lives, that I might be, that I might see you, that I might act you. And then I say, loving God, source of life, please open my heart that I might serve you in love. And that's before anything. So it's forcing my kids is before signing a contract, it's before shaping a project. Because you know this as someone who makes a big impact on our culture. The way you shape your podcast affects thousands of people's lives. So it is a sacred moment to welcome in the source of life and figure out, see who and how you are directed.

I love just the intentionality that brings back because, man, there are so many times where, you know, we're always jumping from, like, project to project to project or person to person. And it's easy to be so caught in the thing that we were doing before or, you know, in one day, there's 10 bad things and there's 20 good things, whatever, or for some people, that's reversed. And it's really easy to carry the energy of that thing where that prayer kind of just starts that clearing and puts your feet there and brings you back to the intention of what you're doing. Because a lot of us and a lot of people listening, if they're listening to this podcast, probably have some form of calling or get to impact people in some way, if that's super small or very big. So just to like, oh, that's right, I'm doing something big here. I want to be intentional with it. I want to, you know, be guided through it. And I think that's so cool because I think the prayer also acknowledges your faith like that, you know, it's just a remembrance of, hey, this is. I'm leaning on you. And it can bring that in.

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Most important point of all, right, that we are not creating life alone. Women really get this. Women know the second we allow each other to speak, and the second we encourage each other that we are guided, that we are given through us a presence and force of life, of love and direction. We don't do things alone. There's not illusion of radical control. And when we really suffer, all of us, certainly myself, I'm in the moments where I don't pay attention to the deep dialogue with life. When I stop acknowledging that every single moment involves handing it over, I start to think, oh, why did I say that? You know, I really blew that deal if I just said it differently. I burnt the bridge too soon. When I spin and spin and spin, I'm actually in that moment under the illusion, really, I'm wearing the wrong sunglasses of radical control. And if I can stop saying, hey, achieving brain, what do I want? Why didn't I get it? What should I have done differently? And instead say, wait, loving God, source of life, show me what you ask of me now. How can I serve you? Not what am I going to get, but how can I serve you? And what do you want of me? Then something that I hadn't planned on that's much more interesting comes around the corner there's so many times I haven't gotten what I wanted. And what I did unfold was so much more magnificent. It wasn't necessarily more money or a bigger thing. It was extraordinary. It was like a high pixel life. It's a good. And that's what makes us as women free, is that we don't. It is not our nature to have the prison house of an unyielding, ironclad ego. That is not our nature. And it is not our nature to really feel fulfilled through big, inflated narcissism. Women just doesn't do it. It's the richness and the vitality and the love and the beauty of life. And it comes through friendship and it comes through building things of great purpose. And of course we want to make money. It's not that there's something. There's no difference between the prosperity that comes through love and abundance and the prosperity that is shown in the abundance that can materialize as money. We're on our path, and sometimes I'm on my path and there's not supposed to be money. And sometimes I'm on my path and there is supposed to be money, but I still know if I'm on my path or not on my path.

So from your opinion and everything that you've, you know, researched and done and your personal experience, can you tell me the correlation that you feel of spirituality to money or abundance? And then also I'm really curious about, like, desire, like, do. Are we meant to get the desires that we have in our heart, no matter how big those are?

It's been my experience that when I live authentically, the abundance comes from the fulfillment of the high pixel life. And there'll be things I do that I love that paid absolutely nothing. And then two weeks later, I'll be way overpaid for something. Yeah, I'm just living the truth. And there are times where, I mean, I've worked so hard and I'm doing what I love and I feel so fulfilled. And it. I think when we live authentically, at that moment, we're not thinking, okay, is it going to be extra 2x that I'm paid for this? Right. And then next thing you know, because of your contribution in the world, there is a translation often to material value. And suddenly, you know, you bring such radiance into the office. We want you to manage, always care so much about every single person in the room. We think you should train our new staff. You're the one who always finds the words to express what's going on. In our meetings, we'd like you to be the new director. There's a sense in which when we really bring it authentically, it is seen and translated very often. And one form of that expression is that they're often when you live authentically you end up finding there's enough money.

Let's shift a little to talk about depression and anxiety or do you have.

A different point of view?

No, I totally agree. Actually I feel, let me think on that for one second. Because I came from a very just small town, parents were bankrupt and just always struggled. So poor money, mindset, all the things. And then also with the religious background that brought in a lot around money because it was. Money was really viewed as evil and it was not, you know, college was frowned upon. Very small town, like it was about. I just thought I was going to go door to door talking about the Bible my whole life. That's what I started doing. That's just what I thought I was always going to do. And so it was about like getting the part time job just enough to get by. And I left the religion at 18 and when I got into my 20s and I was like, I'm pretty sure this struggle thing is actually not what God wants. Like that became really clear to me. I was like, this does not feel like love. I don't think he wants this life for us to suffer. And that's what I had really been taught. Like this lifetime is about suffering and the next one will not be. So I was like, that just doesn't feel right to me. And I really started to shift into feeling like God wants us to be as abundant as possible because we can make really big changes with money. And so whether that was just my purpose that I was getting spoke to or other people's, that's the one that felt most authentically true for my path. And so for me I, I feel the same way. There's been things that I've been really passionate about that I've thought were going to be amazing and they kind of weren't monetarily amazing. But later maybe that thing got me noticed by someone who ended up paying me something a lot later for something or gave my name to some people who. It got me into a room of a lot more opportunity. So I do think it's real and.

High pixel and truthful.

Yes. So I do think that there are going to be things that we are pulled to, just like you said, on our path that won't make sense in the moment, but they're a part of the Bigger picture.

And you can feel when they're alive and high pixel, abundant and true.

Yeah, I love that you say hypixel. Describe that a little bit deeper for me.

Say you spoke at a community event and seven young women came up afterwards with tears in their eyes and said, you just showed me what was possible. You may have volunteered for that event, but you very likely went home that night feeling just the soaring love and generosity and generativity that you'd help her. You seven young and so sure enough, someone at that event did see you, was moved by the authenticity and authentic, authentic soul that you express, and says, yes, please, won't you come and contribute to my often very high pain event. Right. So there's. There's a sense in which I think of money as stored energy. So we learn in physics there's kinetic energy, motion, right? And then there's potential energy stored, but could be turned in to motion. Money I think of as stored energy. And energy, of course, is sacred because energy is made. It's the stuff of life, all energy. The energy that courses through our human bodies, the energy that moves the oceans, the energy in the sun. It's all, for me, sacred. It's all part of God. So energy stored can be handled, as you said, to do great good in the world, Lori, as you're sharing. And it can be misused, right? Misusing energy, any form is sin, right? Misusing sex to harm somebody is sin, right? Using money to harm somebody is sin. Using. And so a flower is an expression of energy. Money is an expression of energy. But what do you do with the flower and what do you do with the money?

You know, that. That was really beautiful for me, even in decision making, I was just thinking, there's been times in our life, my husband and I just kind of are habitually people who love to move because we love real estate, we love decorating, and we love just like trying new areas right now and we don't have kids. It's kind of like a hobby. But I've always been drawn to certain places, and sometimes I've been drawn to a place where I'm like, okay, it's at the top of what might feel financially smart.

But.

But what I've done with some of those places is I'm like, oh, I know why I'm being so drawn to this. Number one, it's beautiful. I'm not going to deny that. But number two, some of those homes that maybe we stretched ourselves a little on became such places of expansion for other people. But that was A decision we made is we're like, we're going to host all these dinners here for all of these people, and we're going to connect and get together and do all of these things. And it's like, that decision coming from that place, not an irresponsible place, because there is a feeling that I get of, no, this is just, like, irresponsible. But using it for that and getting really intentional with that has made our life much better, bigger, richer, more fulfilled, and brought other opportunities. So that's really interesting.

The house, like a forest, ocean, synagogue, church, mosque, became a sacred place.

Yeah, totally.

We opened up the window and let in the bright force.

Yeah, that gives me chills, because that's, like, what we thought we were doing, but getting to talk about is like, that's really what we did. It was like a. It was a big expansion for everybody who got to come and do that as well, which is what we were so excited about, so.

And you literally welcomed people to your table. Relational spirituality. I love you. Welcomed as a soul. And then the incredible connections and alchemy that happen when we welcome each other as souls.

That is so cool. Like, just thinking whether. Whether someone's listening as a. A house or maybe they go out on a limb and they're like, you know, next month I'm going to put together a dinner and just stretch and ask these people who I feel like I want to be connected to and. And facilitate a dinner. Yeah. Just opening the gateway for something, you.

Know, Laurie, I think it's helpful to. If I'm inviting someone to my home who I don't know very well, and I'm doing it from a very authentic place, I have the option of telling them why I'm inviting you. I'm inviting you because I look at you, and no matter who's in the room, you make every single person feel alive and that they matter. I would love you to come. I'd love to get to know you better. You always make me laugh, and you make me laugh because you understand what things actually are worth in life. You know, let them know people. It's such a precious gift to be seen and to bestow that on someone else, to say, I really see you, I see your soul's code deeply moving.

And I feel like that what you just said allows people to. I think that's one of the things where. You know, talking about that timeframe for me, where I said, it's really just like two, three years, and I've gotten these really deep relationships that I'M surprised by is we were, I think, going into it like that, of just total authenticity. Hey, yes. I, I'm, I feel like I'm a large child. Saying, I like you. Like saying I like you. This is what I love about you. This is what I appreciate. That allows you to move deeper, faster.

And everyone feels so lonely when we don't do that. You know, I've been in situations where I'm, I'm in a room with. Yeah, I'm a professor and I'll be in a room with 200 students. And 190 of them feel totally alone.

Oh, breaks my heart.

18 through 22 years old. Why there's people in the room. Yeah. But it's up to us to open our heart, pivot, look at each other. And even if you just say, I'm so glad to see you, I haven't seen you since last week, anything funny happen. Take each other out of this chronic competitive, transactional, achieving awareness. The reason everyone's shut down is they're wondering, like, oh, you know, on your test, did you get a 97 when I got an 82? Or, ooh, you know, is that your fancy car? And I can't afford to get a car. The disconnection comes when we only look at each other comparatively and transactionally. But when we can drop that chronic achieving perspective and then say, have an awakened heart, I really want to get to know you. Tell me a really good story. Tell me something about your roommate. Tell me where you're from. Tell me, what was your grandmother like?

What about from. You know, because we're talking about relationships and, and there's always a chance on relationships. And a lot of the, A lot of the reason I was afraid, and I know some people are still afraid, is because they're afraid of rejection or betrayal. Yeah, betrayal, rejection, definitely. You know, they refer to a past experience that tells them, yes, this could happen again. How does rejection or that fear around it relate to spirituality?

So that is perhaps the most important question in our human lives. I'd say there's two important questions in life. What is our relationship to the higher power, who I call God? And how do we see God's presence or the higher power in one another? Both are forms of relational spirituality. What is my relationship to God? And how do I feel that love towards you? Human to human. The best opportunity, in my view, we have in our lives is to love all in, even if it doesn't come back because it is a godly love, it is a spiritual love. So I love you, whether or not you decide you. You don't love me back. I don't feel ashamed. I don't feel diminished. I don't feel put down because I have a godly, a spiritual love for you, right? What that means, I mean, I don't make myself into a doormat. I don't let you mistreat me. I mean, my goodness. No way. Pushback. But what it does is it makes me not vulnerable anymore. If someone betrays me, I say, wow, that is heartbreaking. That is such a shame. Brutal, but it doesn't diminish me. And if I could have loved you, even if that happened, I chose to have this infinite godly love. It is the most empowering, impenetrable antithesis of being a victim. Again. I don't doormat myself. I don't let someone screw me over twice. I keep someone at arm's length who I don't trust. I'm not a moron, people. But the point is that in my deep seat of being, I'm willing to love even when things don't or didn't go well. And I'm willing to love again because it is not just about me and him or me and that person over there. It is a choice to love people as extensions of God. That's a.

It's a beautiful way to look at it because you're also not going to go back. I mean, of course, you're a human, and at first you're probably going to go through the loop several times. But it starts to help close that loop by not having regrets around it, like looking more for how it benefited you and why. It was a beautiful lesson. And how you can be proud of yourself for the fact that you have that type of love that someone's going to really appreciate when you, you know, get to direct it towards them as well. Because we can get caught in those loops and it, you know, talking about relationships and that is it. It's like without these relationships and being willing to try again. I held so much anxiety when I was more of a solo bird. Like, you know, I always had my husband who was amazing, but I didn't have those, like, really deep friendships. I had an insane connection with him. But I feel like we need a lot of. Not a ton of relationships in our life, but we need a few really amazing, deep relationships in our life. And without those, I experience such massive anxiety because I probably wasn't able to talk through things and have a connection or feel fulfilled or purposeful in life. And also, you know, I Think I've experienced bouts of depression in my life. And I know that growing up, anxiety and depression were just. That's who we thought we were. Like, that was very much in the family. So can you tell me a little bit about how spirituality relates to depression and anxiety?

Oh, yes, Laurie, so true. So when we are in a deep spiritual connection, when we are open and feeling the real, it's truly exist love that's built into life and the love that's in one another, right when we're feeling that we are basically being an open system, we're saying that I am open, I am willing to feel. I am willing. Now, there might be some painful stuff that gets into, but I am, whether through meditation or prayer, opening my heart to feel the presence of my higher power. God, please may I feel your presence? May I feel your love? And then you come around the corner, Laurie, and I see the love bursting through you. And of course it's your love, it's Laurie's love, but it's also the source coming through. So just as we're touched by Source, we see Source God in each other. That's a much better start than, you know, I'm sitting here and I'm feeling, you know, that I don't have enough or I don't feel not good enough. I'm really angry at how my husband just screwed me over. And then I see you and I'm sort of adding things up, versus here comes Lori with your eyes radiant, full of source. And then we're off to the races. It's a totally different relationship. Why? Because we're literally on a different plane. We're literally. It's like we've just moved a wormhole between universes. We're literally in a different world where here you show up radiant and kind and a being of love and. And why, of all days gone, did I get to meet Laurie today? Not yesterday, not in five years, not five years ago. Because there's something that by being open and present, we're to share today that is meaning in both our lives and perhaps those with whom we share. And two years ago, I wouldn't have been ready. And two years from now, Laurie's up to something else. But today, now is this moment of co creation. And the symphony is so complicated and so big that there's no way I could have planned much of that.

I just show up for anybody. Because, you know, something that's in your book and that you talk about so much is for people dealing with anxiety and depression. I know you have so much. So many exercises in your book, and a lot of different things that can help people and give them hope. What would you say to somebody right now who's really experiencing just down and out, not feeling hopeful about life, not feeling connected? What's one of the first things you would tell them to go and do?

Depression, struggle, despair. This does not mean that we're somehow not doing well at life or failing with life. When we're feeling that edgy, snarly feeling, when we're feeling that empty, dragging feeling, that is a gift. That is a valuable sign that there is something in our lives to be opened, to be inquired, to be renewed. Right. So that does not mean there's something wrong with me when I'm depressed. That doesn't mean that I've done something wrong. It certainly doesn't mean I'm off the spiritual path. It means I'm on the spiritual path and I am being told something. If there's an emptiness, what's going to fill that? If there's rage, what's going to lead to forgiveness and renewal? I don't need to push away those bad feelings, and I'm not against medication, but medication alone doesn't solve the question of gift we're being given. Depression's a knock at the door to opening a whole new landscape in our lives, a whole new chapter. So what's on the other side of depression is a life that we don't even know what it looks like yet, but it's so much better for us because we paid attention to what was absent, to what was hurting, to what was the source of anger. And very often, once we get it, you know, I have anger at this transgression, whether it was from my spouse or my partner or my friend. I have emptiness because I don't feel good about myself. We can hand that over. Once we know what's wrong and empty, we can hand that over. In fact, we are built in our brain, Lori. We are literally built with circuits in our brain to hand it over and receive sacred, transcendent guidance.

So we're not meant to carry it on our own?

Oh, no, no, no. We are built from the day we're born to be in a sustained relationship with our higher power, to be in a transcendent connection. That's how we're built. And then we wait till we bottom out in AA or NA and say, oh, I've got to hand it over. But we were built from every moment of our lives to be in this ongoing relationship. We don't drive the bus it is absolutely. The bus we drive isn't going anywhere we'd want to go. We need to listen to the guidance.

Oh, man. You just bring me back to just moments where those breakdowns are that huge opportunity of like, whoa, there's gotta be something else. And all of a sudden, the realization of where there is just something else. And I think it's always come at a rock bottom or a breakdown moment where I'm like, I can't carry this by myself. What on earth do I do? And somehow your brain is like, somehow, because we are wired this way. Which says so much about those moments where my brain has been like, well, why don't you try handing it over? Or, here you go. God, like, I'll say things like that out loud. I'm like, yes, I'm done. God, here you go. Like, take it. Because I can't do it anymore. And I know that people listening have had those moments. And it's like. Because that's what we're meant to do. And we probably could have done that a lot sooner.

So that's what we're meant to do. Our brain is designed to awaken and receive guidance, to perceive a new direction to be handed right direction. We don't need to figure it out. We're not built to figure everything out. And in fact, anything I figure out is not as good good as what the universe has in store. I would take God's guidance any day over my little plans.

Yeah, I could not agree more, you guys, if that's the one thing we leave you with, like, trust, because it's so much better than anything that you have that you have plans for. So I'm so grateful for you. This was such a fun conversation.

Oh, Lord, it's wonderful. It's so wonderful. I'll cherish this. Thank you.

Oh, I loved it so much. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna look forward to a part two sometime. Well, thank you so much. And you guys, the book is. I literally cannot wait to read through the whole book because I know what's in it. And for all of you who, if you found this conversation intriguing, it's just the tip of the iceberg around what you teach around and the tools that you give. Because I don't know how everyone else is feeling, but I have a feeling they're feeling. That's a lot of saying, feelings. I'm feeling the same way as me, and that is that I'm ready to not do it alone. And I'm ready to. I'm ready to tap in more, ready to tap in even more.

Because and as women, you have that extra gift, you have given a huge blessing, which is you are more capable to awaken and feel and know God's guidance.

That is so awesome, you guys. I am putting the link to her book, the Awakened Brain, below. We're also going to put the link to her Instagram handle so you guys can follow, because she does a lot of quick little tips and just different, you know, things that you can learn on there. All about, all about this, all about everything that we chatted about. And again, Dr. Lisa, I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for coming on.

Loved it, Lori.

Ah, thank you so much. And you guys, until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.

It.