Don't Hire Full-Time Yet: Why Fractional Executives Are Better for Growth

There is a particularly awkward stage of business growth that nobody puts on a vision board. Your company is too big for the founder to make every decision but not quite big enough to build an Avengers-sized executive team. Suddenly, you have adult-sized business problems Oops, I'm sorry, I'm getting feedback. Give me half a second. It's— oh, I see what's happening. Let me see if I can fix this real quick. I have my Chrome up and running. There we go. I'm so sorry. Sorry about that. You know, it's interesting when we start, when we do live. It's interesting to see things kick in where the tech all of a sudden doesn't work for you. But that's not your problem. So, here we go again. There is a particularly awkward stage of business growth that nobody puts on the vision board. Your company is too big for the founder to make every decision but not quite big enough to build an adventure-sized executive team. Suddenly, you have basically adult-sized business problems and a teenage executive payroll. Or maybe the budget's even smaller. And that's what we're talking about today. On Marc Haine Live. Sooner or later, my tech will work. Welcome to this episode of Marc Haine Live. Of course, this is where small business owners and entrepreneurs develop new skills to help them create the jaw-dropping, show-stopping experience that their customers and their employees deserve. I am your host, Customer and Employee Experience Strategist Marc Haine. And I'm really thrilled that you're with me today because my guest today is Laura Gay Jackson, a global marketer, brand builder, fractional CMO, and executive coach. And today, we are going to be exploring why the smartest executive hires for your growing business might be somebody you don't even have to hire full-time. So, stick with us. My one ask that if you know somebody who could use this information, please share a link to this episode. And please make sure if you haven't done so yet, please make sure that you're subscribed to the podcast. That way, you'll get notifications when we bring you fresh new content each and every week with amazing, amazing experts. Growth creates an interesting problem. The company that got you here may not be the company capable of getting to where you want to go, right? Your marketing becomes a little bit more complex. Your people need stronger leadership. Operations start creaking under the weight of growth. Decisions become more expensive. And you inevitably discover that cloning yourself is apparently, well, it's still frowned upon by science and HR. So, the work gets pushed downward. A marketing manager gets asked to develop corporate growth strategy. An operations manager gets handed organizational design. And the bookkeeper suddenly becomes the CFO because, well, they know where the spreadsheets are. These can be incredibly talented people. But sometimes, confusing competence with executive-level experience can cause us a lot of challenges. And that Brings us to our Question of the Day. So, where in your business are you asking someone to solve an executive-level problem simply because you're not ready to hire that particular executive? I'd love for you to share your questions, your stories in the comment box or on social media. Share the link to this episode. Hashtag it #ExperienceLeadership. Put your comment down and be part of this conversation. I'd love to hear what your experience is as you're scaling your business. As I mentioned, my guest today knows this conversation from both sides of the executive table. Laura Gay Jackson is a global B2B and B2C marketing leader. She's a brand builder, a fractional CMO, and executive coach whose career has taken her through Fortune 500 organizations across Canada, United States, and into the Caribbean. She has led marketing, brand, and growth strategies across insurance, financial services, retail, consumer packaged goods, and natural resources. So, she's seen what sophisticated leadership looks like inside some of the pretty complex organizations. But her perspective changed when her own executive position was unexpectedly eliminated. That career curveball led Laura Gay through her own professional reinvention and eventually into this idea of fractional executive leadership and coaching. Laura Gay, welcome to the show! It's so great to have you.

Thanks for having me, Marc. Fantastic to be part of this.

Yeah, I'm so thrilled. I'm thrilled with this topic because I have to say, 316 episodes, we haven't talked about fractional leadership at all. And so, first of all, can you dig a little bit deeper into who your customers are and how you're serving them at the moment?

Sure. So first of all, I just want to lean into the question, the comment you just made. I didn't know what a fractional was 2 years ago either.

Hmm.

So, it's a relatively new concept. And I think in a minute, we'll talk about what the difference is between a fractional and some other roles that people may have within their organizations. But what led me into this was obviously an extensive career as a marketing exec with very large Fortune 500 companies where I did a lot of branding work, a lot of implementation work, acquisition work. And I just really felt that I could bring that knowledge and expertise to an SMB or a founder-led organization. and really help make a difference. It's just amazing to see the great ideas that are out there, especially across our wonderful country of Canada, to see the wonderful things that people are doing. And sometimes, they just need a little bit more professional help to sort of get them to the next level. So, that's what got me into that.

Yeah.

And then, executive coaching. I managed large teams over the years and I really loved seeing people grow and flourish, which is the name of my company. And so, I wanted to provide that opportunity, in this case, to corporate execs to help them sort of get to the next stage in their career. So, I just love seeing that aha moment with my clients when we're working on a branding initiative or an opportunity. And they just kind of go, wow, this is what we need to accomplish. Or an employee or a person that I'm coaching when they have that light bulb moment and go, oh, now it all makes sense. Now, I understand how I need to move forward.

I love that. I love that. There's something magical, right, when you can have that kind of an influence and people just suddenly the lights come on. So, you mentioned yourself that you didn't understand this fractional concept until a couple of years ago. Can we break it down for the audience, for people who never even heard of this idea of having a fractional CMO, or a COO, or whatever? What is this whole concept about?

Yes, I'm going to backtrack for a second to sort of paint a picture. So, we all know what a full-time employee is. They're permanent. They're headcount. They're a long-term investment. They come with salaries. They come with benefits. In some cases, we hire freelancers. And they're usually hired experts for a specific, well-defined technical task. They're often brought on in a contract or as a retainer. And then consultants. The large companies I worked with had many consultants. Consultants look from the outside in. They really define what the problem is. They share a plan. It's usually focused on efficiency, cost savings, growing the business. It's usually a short-term engagement and it's addressing a very specific problem. Then, there are some situations where people outsource an entire function. So, your marketing function is outsourced. Your customer contact center is outsourced. Accounting, whatever it is. And those are called managed service providers. Then, we have interim execs. So, that happens when an immediate leadership situation happens and there's a departure of someone in the C-suite. Or we need to manage a crisis, or we need to guide a complex business transformation. We need specialized hands-on expertise. And it's really a stopgap. So, you bring someone in for 3 to 6 months while you have a recruiting agency helping you find that permanent C role. So, those are all the other things that are out there. But fractionals They are high-level execs. So, they could be a Chief Financial Officer, a Chief Marketing Officer, a Chief Operating Officer, a Chief Technology Officer. Lots of acronyms there. They have extensive expertise. They have specific skills. But the important part is that they work on a flexible part-time basis. It might be 20% of their time they work on your business, 30% of your time, 50% of your time. But they do have multiple clients. So, they're not just working for you. So, instead of hiring a full-time Yeah. C-suite member, you're renting their expertise for a fraction of the time and the cost than you would if you had a full-time person. But you have to remember they're not full-time. And so, when we get a little bit more into the conversation, I think that's important for people to remember. You have to have realistic expectations that if you're hiring somebody to come in with a mandate to do something for 20% of their time, that's the kind of work that you're getting. You're not getting 100%.

That's really interesting. So, what's the difference between hiring a fractional leader and hiring a consultant?

Oh, it depends on what it is you're trying to focus on and what it is you're trying to do. I would probably say a fractional versus a full-time person is probably a better comparison because a consultant usually comes in for something very specific that you want them to work on for a very short period of time. And a fractional can be a short period of time as well. But We're looking more when you're looking for strategic insight, which you could get from a consultant as well. So, an example would be you might have a bookkeeper but you don't have a CFO. You might have a social media content person but you don't have a CMO. You may have an AI coder but you don't have a CTO. So, in that case, you're expecting entry or mid-level teams to really solve the problems, strategic problems that a senior-level person would come, would bring to the table. And also, you're asking them to solve problems without leadership guidance or expertise. So, just maybe high level talking about some of the advantages of a fractional is obviously lower fixed costs than if you had a full-time person. You're not paying for recruitment. You're not paying for salary and benefits. You're not paying for equity if that's involved. So in general, better cash flow. You can be very precise about the specialized expertise that you're looking at based on the exact stage your SMB or your startup is involved in. It's a lot faster to make it happen. So, if you hire a full-time person, it could take 4 to 8 months to find that right person that fits with your culture. But a fractional person can often start within weeks and usually within a critical growth stage. So, you've got— and you mentioned this in your intro. You get to a certain stage. You're at that growth period. It's ramping up. It's happening very quickly. And you need someone to come in and be a lot more strategic. The nice thing about a fractional is they, like myself, they've worked across multiple sectors. They often understand benchmarks. They understand systems. They understand strategic patterns. The other nice thing is sometimes when you hire a full-time person, you have a mis-hire. And so, there could be severance involved with a mis-hire, just the amount of time lost with a mis-hire. So, you don't have that with a fractional because you've agreed to a certain amount of time. But fractionals are really brought in to bridge where you are now to where you're eventually going to get to. So, in most cases, it's not the end state.

I love that. So, it's basically being able to pinpoint expertise that you— but part of this needs to be part of some level of strategy. Are there signs that a company has reached the point where the founder and the existing management team simply can't carry all the strategic weight anymore and they have to look at bringing in outside help? Are there any signs that people should be aware of?

Yeah, I think the first question to ask yourself is, are you trying to address execution? Or are you trying to address strategy? Or are you trying to address both? So, is this a resourcing issue? You have a plan but things aren't getting done. The team feels overwhelmed. You need someone to oversee an outside organization like an an ad agency, we need more hands. That's usually what you hear. If that's the case, then a fractional is not the right answer.

Right.

So, it's not about doing more but it's deciding what really needs to be done. So, is your positioning not working anymore? Are there too many priorities? Are sales and marketing no longer aligned? So, I'm speaking from a CMO point of view. Are you entering a new market and you don't know how to approach it? Is the founder making all the decisions and no one is connecting to the business strategy? So, it's really not about getting the job done. If that's what you're trying to do, then you need to buy resources for execution. But if you have competing opinions on what to do or you don't know what to do, and that's when you should be buying strategic leadership.

And so, for people who understand that, okay, we don't have the capacity and capability within our ranks to be able to move ourselves forward, And they think, they trip across this episode and they go, oh, we didn't think about doing a fractional leader. How do they know if they don't have the capacity to help move an understanding of how to move their business forward strategically? How would they find the strategy around being able to hire a fractional COO or whatever? A fractional leader, general manager, whatever?

Yeah. So, usually it happens when the business needs executive-level strategic thinking and accountability but can't justify a full-time person. Often, you get to that stage where the founder, the business has outgrown the founder.

Yes.

So, things are becoming much more complex for the founder to try to oversee all that. They can't run the whole thing anymore. You may be in a situation that you're in an inflection point. You're deciding to enter a new market. You're repositioning your brand. You're preparing for a growth phase. All of those things when you're trying to scale that you need to bring strategy back into the discussion. But you may not need 40 hours a week of expertise. But you may need 20 years of executive expertise that can really solve the problem for you. So, when you want flexibility as the business grows, eventually this role can transition to a full-time role. But you're not quite ready or require that full-time role.

In typical leadership hierarchies, people are put into roles and they have control over some aspect. They have control over their portfolio. A marketing director has control over the marketing portfolio and is able to make make decisions. They're able to delegate. They're able to do the strategic thinking around it and then kind of manage the execution. How does that work with fractionals if they're only working 20 hours? Let's say 20 hours a week if that's what you decide they're going to be doing. How does that manifestation of the leadership role play out as far as their role within decision-making, their role in follow-up and accountabilities and that sort of thing?

Great question. And that's often where people trip when they hire a fractional because they haven't kind of thought through that. So, the first thing is, and you sort of already mentioned it, is to make sure that they have a clear mandate. If you don't have a clear mandate, there's drift that happens and you're asking people to do way more than what the amount of time allows for. You have to establish decision rights. So, what do they own and what does the CEO or the founder require approval for? You make them part of the team. And even though they may only be there a couple of days a week, they should be introduced as being part of the leadership team and potentially having some people that they oversee. You should have realistic expectations going in. So, day 1, they shouldn't necessarily be up and running. But day 1, you want them to listen. You want them to understand your environment. And there, very quickly, let them build relationships before they start changing anything. And treat them as if they're a full-time person. So, create a cadence. Have weekly meetings that they're part of. Have weekly one-on-ones that they're part of. Give them access to the CEO or the founder, which is really critical. And the most important part is it's not based on the number of hours they work. But you really define success with what the business outcomes are that you're trying to achieve. So, the best fractional leaders don't feel fractional to the people that are leading them. As they may, as I said, only be in there 2 or 3 days a week. But they are fully accountable for the mandate that they are given.

I love that. As you were saying that, my mind was going to like different businesses that I had known. And this idea that they become just as accountable. But you were talking about defining what the mandate is. Is it fair to say that when you bring in This fractional leader that you'll sit down and define the mandate together so that that fractional leader will be able to say, that's out of scope, or that's within scope, or that's asking me to do more than you're paying me to do. And is it fair that it should be more kind of a co-creation process?

Oh, totally. Well, even more than co-creation. But yes, both parties should be agreeing to what you're doing. But it's probably the biggest issue I hear from my peers who are a variety of different types of fractionals is this concept of scope creep. So, you bring someone in and you think they can be all things to all people. And what that does is it doesn't allow the fractional to really focus on getting the job done. So, really, really important that you define what it is and both parties agree to what it is that you want to do. And you may find after 3 months of the fractional being there that something, crisis has happened, something else has happened in the business and you want them to focus on a different thing. And it's okay to rediscuss what that scope should look like and redefine it. There's nothing wrong with doing that. But yeah, I think people think that, oh, I'm going to bring this person in and they're going to solve everything related to marketing in my case. And marketing can mean a lot of different things.

Sure.

Branding. It can be positioning. It can be acquisition. All kinds of different things. And then, the other thing that's really important is when you bring this person in, you have to be willing to work with the person. You have to make yourself So, it doesn't work if the founder just pushes the person off to the side and says, you fix everything for me and I'll come back and we can chat again in a couple months' time. They need to be involved. You need to agree on what they are going to have to approve, what you're going to approve. They also need to have some level of resources, some level of budget. If you bring somebody in and they don't have money to get anything done with, it's not going to be very effective. So, that's really important. And as I mentioned, you don't want a founder who's going to be hands-off, who's not available to help you as the fractional make decisions. You need them to be engaged. And it also won't work if you're not willing to give the person authority. So, do 4 people have to approve every ad campaign before it happens? Nothing's ever going to happen. So, if you're looking to hire a fractional because you want a cheap exec, you're not going to be successful at it. You need to hire someone who is going to be embedded within your team, who's going to be accountable, who's going to create better outcomes than if that person wasn't there.

So, you've mentioned quite a few things. Kind of, I love myth-busting. Based on what you've talked about, you've talked about a bunch of things at the moment. Are there any other myths about hiring fractional leaders that should be busted? I mean, you just mentioned If you're just looking for a cheap executive, this is not the way to go.

Correct.

Any other myths?

That they're going to fix all your problems because if you haven't defined what your problem is, they may be fixing the wrong thing. So, that won't necessarily solve the issue. The other myth is that they're going to be all things to all people. You bring them in for something very specific based on their knowledge and their expertise. So, that's really important to understand what their strengths are, what they're bringing to the table. Yeah, I think those would be the top ones.

Okay. I'd love to get into some specific strategies to kind of address the need for fractional leadership and the steps people should take to understand and implement what that would look like for their business. And we'll get to that right after this.

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Welcome back! I am speaking with Laura Gade Jackson. We're talking about this idea of fractional leaderships within your business. And so, we talked about this idea of kind of busting, myth-busting a little bit. Beyond reducing fixed payroll that would bring somebody in full-time when you're not really clear on what needs to happen strategically and so on, what does a seasoned fractional leader bring that the business may not be able to develop internally overnight? What are some of the key contributions a fractional leader would bring in immediately, let's say from day 3 onwards?

Yeah, so begin with often they've worked in multiple sectors like myself. So, they've seen a lot. They've probably seen it all, although the world is changing with AI and we can talk about that in a little bit. So, they bring benchmarks to the table. They bring systems to the table. A lot of founders' organizations don't have a lot of structure, don't have a lot of systems. And as you grow and you get larger, you need some of those policies in place and decision-making approaches in place to make it really effective. And a lot of times, owner-operators fight against that. And their employees struggle with the fact that there aren't sort of rules and guidelines around things. So, fractionals are very, very good at coming in and creating that structure. Structure and that approach. Also, the knowledge and expertise. They're often very leading edge in terms of their knowledge. So, depending on who you're bringing in, in my case as a CMO, what do I bring to the table in terms of AI marketing? If I'm a CFO, what do I bring to the table in terms of governance and other things that you maybe need to refine or qualify a little bit? So, those are some of the things that they can really make a difference with. They've seen things before. They're knowledgeable. They can get up and running very, very quickly. But they need the support of the organization in order to be able to do that.

Yeah, and the support of the organization but the support of the owner-operator as well because I do know that there's a lot of pride aspect, especially with solopreneurs and people who are, you know, they've driven their business for let's say 5 or 6 years on their own. And somebody suggests that they bring somebody in to help drive this stuff. But then, there's an ego thing about distancing what you created with kind of what's being suggested that might erase kind of what you've been doing the last 4 years because now you're evolving past it. And so, how does one wrap themselves up or what needs to happen within that relationship to make absolutely sure that we check that ego component? And we're not hiding. We're not sugarcoating. That we actually are getting into an honest relationship, an honest transaction with the fractional leader.

Well, first of all, it starts with hiring. Like any hiring opportunity, you need to make sure that the person believes in what it is you're doing, has the passion for what it is that you're doing, is going to support your vision. But you also have to realize that person's being brought in to tell you like it is and provide ideas and thoughts that you can choose to take or not take. So, I think you just have to go into it being very open that things may start changing. And that happens in general within an organization as it grows and develops. It is not the same seedling that it started out as it begins to sprout and it gets larger and grows limbs and leaves and all kinds of other things, it looks a little bit different than it did when it was just a sprout. So, being open to that. Making sure, as I said, you hire someone who aligns with your corporate values and what your passion is and what your approach is. And then, providing them with that level of support. And it's hard. One of the areas I found has been very interesting is often one of the first areas is bringing someone in, a CHRO. So, an HR person. To really start defining what the roles are and doing that in a more formal way than maybe the original operator did when they brought on their friends and family to be part of things. And so, you know, going through that and understanding that discipline and regimen is not a bad thing, it is a good thing, and it frees up your time and your energy to focus on what your passion is and what you want to get involved in. I can't hear you, Marc. You've gone on mute on me.

I'm sorry about that. As you were saying that, what occurred to me was that it takes an awful lot of work to be prepared to start looking at bringing on this role, whether it's a If in your case, a CMO or a Chief Marketing Officer, not a fractional, we still need to do a ton of work before we can bring somebody into the role to then be able to sit with them and strategize what their role is going to be. We still have to have our ducks in a row. And I think that all too often, could part of the fear about bringing somebody in be that my house is not clean enough to bring the maid in? Kind of idea?

Oh yeah, I clean for the cleaning lady. It's pretty funny. My kids laugh at me. Yeah, I think you've got to think about whether it's too early or possibly even too late. So, this is a business stage problem when you need this opportunity. And it's not a capacity or a headcount problem. It's a business stage problem. So, if you bring someone in too early, then you're overbuilding the organization before the business actually has complexity and needs that. And then, what happens is you bring some in and there's not enough strategic work for them and they get really frustrated. Or you've brought in expensive overhead in a sense before the revenue can even support it. And then, as an owner-operator, you get really frustrated. Or you start creating too many layers and too many meetings and you just really slow the organization down and it can't be mean and lean and move forward. So, you need to have problems to be solving and not bringing people in to create problems. If you bring the person in too late, then the new person actually becomes a bottleneck. So, you force a situation where decisions are taking too long to be addressed because too many people have to agree to it before it moves forward. As a result of that, you miss opportunities. You may have a team that is rudderless or directionless. You may already have an organization but people are just so stretched beyond capacity. They don't have time to onboard this person and work with this person and get them to where they have to get to. So, it's really thinking about where you are in your business stage and if this is the time that's right or not. And you may not get it right the first time. You may, as great as I probably am as a fractional, you may hire me and decide, oh, that was a misfire. Mishire, I should say. Not misfire. It would become misfire. I wasn't the right person. Because sometimes when you go through this process, you also have a better understanding of what your business does need. So, you might have brought me in because of my branding expertise. But you realize it's really helping your sales team about closing leads. And maybe that is not my area of expertise as an example.

Sure. So, for people to step into this realm, how do they get started? Like, what's their first step? Because I mean, it's not a question of putting something on LinkedIn to say, hey, I'm looking for a fractional leader to help. Is it bringing somebody like yourself on to talk it through and get coached through this process?

Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you don't hire somebody unless you understand what the person's able to bring to the table. As I mentioned very early on in our conversation, this is a relatively new area of people. I actually belong to a group called Fractional Pros Canada, and there's over 100 of us that are doing this in a variety of different ways. So, whatever country you're in, I'm sure if you go in a Google or AI query, fractionals in my country, I'm sure there will be Yeah. There might be a group that pops up that you can connect with to try to find who those people are. But I think it's first sitting down and figuring out, defining what it is you're trying to accomplish before you even go and try to find that person. And whether that's what's the business problem that we're dealing with? What is the stage that we're at that we need to address? What are we trying to accomplish from this opportunity? All those kinds of things. And really being able to articulate that before you even start talking to someone and then going and finding a couple of people that play in this space and interviewing them, talking to them, seeing if there's alignment or not. And then slowly working through what it is we want you to accomplish, what the scope of work is going to be, what the period of time is that we want to work with you. Can you put a proposal together for me? Let me understand what it will cost, what that will look like. And then reviewing that with you and any other leaders that you have on your team. To make sure you're all in line before you actually pull the trigger. I love that.

Hey, Laura Gay, can you let everybody know how they can get in touch with you if they want to work with you?

Oh, for sure.

Wow.

That's always a nice question to be asked. Isn't it though? Yeah. So, I'm obviously on LinkedIn and my website is growandflourish.ca. You can also reach out to me directly at lauragay@growandflourish.ca. I have a newsletter.

Yeah.

If somebody just wants to kind of follow me, they can find that on my website where I help people elevate their leadership and strengthen their brand. But yeah, I'm totally open to your listeners reaching out and just talking about what their fractional opportunity is, what it might look like, how they could get started. If you're looking for leadership coaching for you or your team, I would love to chat about that as well. Always available for any kind of no-charge introductory conversations with founders and leadership teams that are navigating growth and also transition.

Thank you. So, thank you for offering that. It hits me that we're asking people to, or founders, people who are in their business, people and again, who are so busy working in their business, they don't really have a lot of time to work on their business to now to start thinking really strategically. Is there, I mean, I imagine that probably the first step to the fractional conversation would be to bring in a consultant or a coach to be able to talk through kind of the different avenues. And that coach or that consultant can help people clean their house before they start the process of hiring or trying to hire somebody. Because I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of people tuning into this wouldn't know the first step to be able to— they know that They want growth. They might know that they're not seeing as much volume as they used to see way back when. They know they might need help. But because they tend to pretend— small businesses tend to be these like these owner operators who are just kind of tripped into them, right? They opened up a shop and they're just doing the best they can. They don't necessarily have that capacity. So, what would you recommend to them to For people tuning in who go, okay, I need step 1, what is that?

Yeah. First of all, I wouldn't worry about cleaning your house. The fractional is going to turn up and they're going to help with that part. So, don't focus on that. I think first, sit quietly under a tree or at the dock, the cottage, or wherever you might be and just really think about whether the challenges you're facing are execution challenges or leadership problem challenges. So, first you need to figure out, is it about execution? We don't have enough hands to make something happen. And then, we're hiring a different type of opportunity. Or is it around leadership and strategy that we're dealing with? And then, I think that you need to really think through what do you want to prioritize? What do you want to unlock in terms of what the opportunity is? Because this fractional opportunity is not a trend. It's really a practical growth model for SMBs and founders to provide expertise, flexibility, and speed when you need to grow at a fraction of the cost. So, you're really buying a strategic ability when it matters most. So, you're at an inflection point. Something's happening within either, as you mentioned, you're not growing at the rate you wanted to, you're looking at entering a new market, you're anticipating bringing on a new client and growing at a very quick speed. So, how can I quickly bring somebody on to get up and running? And start asking around. Does anyone know whatever market you're in? Have you ever heard of this concept of fractional? Do you know anyone who's in this space? And often, it may not be that direct person. But somebody, lots of small business owners know somebody who knows somebody. And get introduced and start having a conversation and see what that person can bring to the table.

And I'm sure going to the website, what did you call it? FractionalPros.com?

If you go on— they're kind of an interesting organization. They're actually on Facebook. That's how we all communicate.

Oh, good.

So, go on to Facebook and look them up. So, you go on there. Yeah, yeah. Or just do an AI search for fractionals, whatever kind of fractional you're looking for, and I'm sure something will pop up in the country that you're in. Canada-specific, it is this Fractional Pros Canada group.

Sure, terrific. Thank you. When we come back, I'd like to talk about some cautionaries and pitfalls for us to be aware of as we start biting the bullet and making the decision to do this. And we'll get to that right after this.

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Welcome back. We are having a phenomenal discussion. I'm learning so much about this idea about bringing fractional leaders into our businesses. And as we dive deep into today's episode, I just wanted to take a moment to let you know that Laura Gaya and I are not just voices behind the mic. We're here to sincerely and honestly help you take your leadership and your business to the next level. So, whether you're looking to empower your team, enhance your customer and employee experience, or simply you need some fresh actionable insights to navigate today's business challenges, we're available For things like leadership retreat, for conferences, tailored workshops, whatever you need, reach out to us and explore how maybe we can work for you. If you're planning an event, however, and you want to provide your team with impactful high-energy sessions that leave them equipped and inspired, let's make sure we connect. Our connection information is in the show notes. Loriga, somebody brings somebody in for the first time. You mentioned that it might What would that look like? You bring in somebody who you've interviewed. Maybe a consultant helped you place them and you find this one particular person. And you feel that it might not fit culturally or there's a clash. How does that show up? And what are some of the things we should be aware of as we start this relationship?

Yeah, so I think first, you have to look at yourself before you look at the The person that you hired. And we talked about this earlier.

Good point.

Really make sure, did you give them a clear mandate? Did you tell them what you wanted them to do? And were you clear and concise on what that was? And often, it's a communication issue. So, in your brain, you were thinking one thing. But what came out of your mouth was something like a little bit different. So, I think that's the thing to go back before you sort of throw up your hands and say, this was a big mistake. And why did I listen to this conversation with Marc and Laura Gay and make this investment? First, start with the basics. Was the mandate clear? And sit down with the person and say, hey, this is what I thought you were going to do. This is what I see you doing. And this is why I feel like it's not working. So, I think have that conversation. The other question is, were there established decision rights? Do they know what they own? Do they know what I need to approve? And maybe I'm getting in the way. Maybe I'm creating a challenge for this person because of what approach is. And then, did we really define what success means? So, what are the business outcomes that we were looking for? Am I mad because this person is not coming in the 3 days a week that they promised and they're doing calls virtually? Or am I mad because we agreed that the initiative that they were going to do was going to result in a 5% growth rate? So, really understanding the optics of it and what it is you were trying to accomplish. So, I think those are sort of the key things. And sitting down and talking to the person. I talk to some fractionals who love what they do and work with great founders and small business owners. And I work with others who are just tearing their hair out and their hair is getting gray and they're getting frustrated because they're like, but this is what we agreed to. But this is what they think I'm supposed to do. So, I think it's like a two-way street. So, before you throw in the towel, have that conversation. And then, maybe look at, well, I thought this person was able to do this. But this person has strengths in another area. And we can do a little bit of a pivot. And let's focus on what their strengths are and how they can really help this organization before you throw in the towel.

Yeah, it's interesting because the more you keep saying about that, the more I realize that this becomes almost a relationship based on a partnership that you bring this person on. Because you have an immediate need. You create the mandate by sitting together and defining it. Then, you do check-ins on the mandate. And so, when the fractional leader turns around and goes, okay, I see quite a lot of scope creep here, that you're then able to go back to the mandate and actually highlight it, or check it out and open those conversations. If it's between the fractional leader and the founder, the fractional leader and the owner, you're able then to define and redefine kind of what that's going to look like. And Does that require more work? Does that require more hours? Does that require more resources and that sort of thing to do this properly?

Oh, totally. And at any point in time, you can redefine the contract. There's nothing wrong with that. And at any point in time, even in the contract, it should say that at some point in time, either party doesn't feel this is working, that either party has the ability to sort of end this relationship because that does happen. Sometimes, we think it's going to work and we're not ready for it. Or the person that we hired doesn't exactly fit what we were looking for. So, that's okay too. But yeah, they definitely use the word co-collaborate, I think early on in the conversation.

Yeah, right.

It's not a one-way street, right? So, both parties need to come to the table and agree with what it is you're trying to do. There should be consistent opportunities for both people to come together and talk about how it's going, what could how we might pivot, how we might change up things, how we might do things differently. Provide that guidance and advice. Make yourself available and accessible. If you just sort of walk away and just let them do what they're going to do, it's never going to be the way you want. And it's not going to meet your expectations.

It's really interesting because as you were saying that, the word that came to mind is safe word. There should be, as you're setting up the mandates and stuff, you should almost have like a safe word That you're suggesting something now, or I'm suggesting as a fractional leader, I'm suggesting something and you're doing nothing but pushing back. You're back into that, that's not how we've done it the last 5 years kind of mindset. Because we need to be able to create those checks and balances as well for that relationship.

Yeah, and I think more than that, if in the beginning you've agreed on what it is you're trying to accomplish and what those measures You now have a scoreboard to reference because you don't want this to just be an emotional conversation. You don't want it to be, I hate your guts, or, I don't like the way you do whatever, right? You want it to be based on objective data sources. So, at those weekly meetings, you should be reviewing, this is what we agreed you were going to accomplish. There should be like a plan and how long it's going to take to make that happen. There should be KPIs involved in that, metrics involved in that so that you're having this objective conversation and not an emotional one. And then, you're figuring out where you want to go. And you may find that you're just really not good at this as an owner-operator.

As the leader or as the fractional leader?

No, as the owner-operator. You may just wake up one day and go, maybe I gotta scale it back. Maybe I can't grow to that place. Maybe I'm, you know, because it takes different type of leadership depending on where a business is and what stage it's at. And that is part of what a fractional does is some of those things that maybe you aren't good at, the fractional can come in and work on and make happen for you so that you can release yourself and go and work on the things that you do love to do. So, whether that's new product development or that's implementing some new software, or whatever it might be that's your passion. Let the CMO go off and figure out how to market it and how to position it and make it happen. Let them do what they're really good at.

I love that. It's all about tapping into people's superpowers, isn't it?

Totally, yeah.

Yeah.

Are there any other cautionaries or pitfalls we should be aware of that we haven't talked about?

Well, that sounds so negative. I want this conversation to be positive that this is an exciting thing.

But we have to be aware of. So, here's my challenge is that I do know people again who have— they are all about kind of, I want the quick win. I want the band-aid. I want whatever. And so then, it becomes the policy of the month. And so, I think by being honest with kind of the red flags of making these decisions, we've already said if you're not ready for it, if you're not If you don't have the strategy in place for it, we know that that could be a pitfall for us. Because then, you'll spend so much money working with the fractional just to develop the basis of what you want him there to do. And then, realize maybe he's the wrong hire at the end of the day, right? And so, yeah, when I say pitfalls and cautionaries, I just want people to be, as they're stepping into this, don't trip over the cracks.

Yeah, I think that you bring this kind of person in when you get to that inflection point. So, this isn't something from day one that you're hiring a fractional necessarily to do. But you've gotten to a growth period where you need guidance and advice. And I will say that many— I grew up in an entrepreneurial family and it's all we talked about at the dinner table. Was the business and what was going on at the business. It's kind of funny that I landed up working for corporate, not for small business until now. But the biggest frustration I saw with my parents and I see with many small business owners is you have nobody to throw ideas out at and talk about things. And you don't have that advisor. So, what a great opportunity for 3 to 6 months to have someone come in who can sit at the table with you, sit down over a beer or a cup of coffee or whatever and just This is where I am now. This is where I want to get to. Let's talk about some of the things that I can do to get me there. So, over and above the functional role that this person is providing, they've seen so much that they can provide you with advice and guidance. And you may not agree with their advice and guidance. But at least, you're getting a mirror. You're getting someone who can reflect back and speak to you and kind of help your business move forward in ways that it can't necessarily if you're just sitting there on the dock fishing all on your own. It's nice to have other fishery people with you to go and try to catch that big one. I love that.

This has been such a great discussion. As we wrap up, Laura Guay, do you have any last thoughts about what we've been talking about today?

Yeah, I would just reiterate some of the other things that I said that this isn't a trend. You may not have heard of fractional before. It's a practical model. For SMBs and founders who are in that growth stage. And the reason it's helpful is it provides you with expertise. We just talked about that a little bit. It provides you with flexibility. And it provides you with speed when you need to grow. And it provides it in a way at a fraction of the cost. So, you're hiring knowledge and expertise, 20+ years of knowledge and expertise to bring to the table to help your organization get to the next stage. So, you're really buying strategic ability. Love it.

Laura Gay, can you remind everybody one more time how they can get a hold of you?

Sure. You can check me out on LinkedIn. I do have an unusual name. I think I'm the only Laura Gay Jackson out there. So, I'm pretty easy to find. You can also email me at lauragay@growandflourish.ca. You can go on my website at growandflourish.ca. And as I mentioned, I have a newsletter called Grow and Flourish. First And I'm also on LinkedIn. Brief, which you can subscribe to. It's free, no charge, to learn a little bit more about how you can improve your leadership, how you can strengthen your brand, and strengthen your business.

Lary Gay, thank you so much. I really want to thank you for sharing your passion with us, your expertise. This has been a unique conversation. As I mentioned, 316 episodes, we have not talked about this before. So, thank you for bringing this to the forefront. It's been brilliant.

Great! Thanks for your time today, Marc. I really appreciate it.

Why don't you let me know if this was of value to you? As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is in the show notes. It would be my honor to be of service. And while you're at it, why don't you go ahead leave a comment or review about today's episode? I'd love to get your feedback. Was this of value to you? Thank you very much for joining me today. My name is Marc Haine. I hope you stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope you dare to be the exception. See you next week!