3 Keys to Visionary/Integrator Success | Houston Goodwin & Kristie Kinley

One of the things that you give up in leadership is the convenience of having people communicate to you the way you like to be communicated. And instead you meet people where they are.

Hey, this is Mark C. Winters, co author of Rocket Fuel, an expert EOS implementer. Welcome to the Rocket Fuel podcast where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create what we call rocket fuel. Today I'm excited to welcome Houston Goodwin and Christy Kinley from 97 Display to the show. Houston and Christy started running their software company on Eos three years ago and the change has been dramatic. You'll even hear Christy refer to Rocket Fuel as their secret sauce. In this episode, Houston and Christy speak to the challenges of learning to communicate clearly, the sacrifices that come with being a leader and, and how building a strong visionary integrator relationship yields meaningful results. We're going to begin the show where Houston and Christy discuss how they took ownership of their visionary and integrator roles. Let's jump in. Today I have Kristy Kinley and Houston Goodwin from 97 Display, whose mission is to empower martial arts and fitness businesses to more effectively impact their communities through Internet marketing. So thanks to both of you for your time today and welcome to the show.

Thanks. We're excited to be here.

Yeah, awesome. Really excited.

Very, very cool to meet you and appreciate you carving up a little bit of time for us. So to start off, I'm really curious how we got here. So when you think about your individual visionary integrator journeys, Houston, why don't you start us off? Did you start off in the visionary role? Were you kind of doing both? What was the situation when you started off?

Yeah, so we kind of have an interesting path. I actually started running the sales team at 97 display and a few years ago I was kind of working my way through the company having some success. I decided, hey, EOS is something I had heard about and had been familiar with with other companies, but never really worked with an implementer before. And so we started that journey and obviously, you know, we were about 30 employees at the time and, and this was a much a very big change for us. And so really what it did was when we kind of got in and we looked at the visionary integrator seat, originally I was kind of sitting in the integrator seat and it was just like, hey, this isn't going to work, right? Like, this isn't, this isn't the setup. I'm going to do Terrible. And so we need to make some adjustments. And so we made some pre. Big shifts in the company, and Christie, at the time was running support, and. And we had worked really well together. And so she kind of has those innate integrator qualities. And so maybe, like, two years ago, we just kind of made a decision if we're going to move forward as the company with eos, which is what we think is best. Right. This is what the structure needs to look like. And so, yeah, so we just started sitting in these roles, like, two years ago.

So bring me inside those initial conversations that the two of you had around. Hey, Christy, we need to fill this integrator seat. I'm thinking you might be good. How did that all go? And, Christy, what was your reaction when you first heard that idea?

A lot of those conversations we had, the original CEO of the company was sitting in that visionary seat. And like Houston said, he was in the integrator seat. And the conversations started out of. I was growing out of where I was, so I moved in like a director of ops and situation, and that more aligns with what the integrator is doing and the things Houston hated to do. I was like, kind of taking off of his plate, and then he eventually just, like, morphed himself into the visionary, in a sense. So that's kind of how that came about. I don't know if you have anything to sprinkle on that, Houston, but that's kind of how that went. And I realized that those skill sets, I think as a young leader, I thought those skill sets of a visionary was what a leader was. So those visionary skill sets were what I was like, aspiring to be. But I learned through some years of leadership coaching that the skillset I brought to the table were actually skill sets that could be of a leader as well, and I could lean into those, and they were just as valuable, if not maybe more valuable. So I think a lot of that journey is that. That's kind of how that journey went for me is once I started to realize that those things were what I could lean into and what I love to do, it kind of became a spot where the visionary wasn't what I aspired to be, it's what I aspired to, like, come alongside, if that makes sense.

Absolutely. So. So, Houston, did you have concerns as. As Christy kind of moved into that role that you'd been filling and, you know, or as you're looking the other way as you're thinking about stepping into that visionary seat?

How.

How were you feeling about all that?

Yeah, so I think, I mean, one of the things that I was doing early on in the company because I came in like post acquisition to the company and I didn't come in and like a top level position, but I've always like, you know, been naturally inclined to be the leader of whatever I'm in. And I really like doing that. And that's really what I'm passionate about is like developing people. And so when EOS really just helped put like words to, you know, kind of this innate thing that I had learned over, you know, the last decade or so in work, really for me, my vision was always bigger than just 97. And so those initial conversations with Christy were kind of like, hey, this is what I need. And you know, the book is called Rocket Fuel. I was calling it like the Secret Sauce. Right. This is like the superpower for me to be able to accomplish things that I want to accomplish in life is to have this like, other side to the coin. And this is a really good testing ground. And so we started with 97 and now, you know, two years later, we actually have three software companies under our umbrella that we're the VI over, which has been really fun and it's growing very fast.

I got to stop you there. So expand on that for me a second. So you've got three different companies now that you're each playing this, these same roles in each of these three companies.

Yeah, so this is a little new. We're working with our implementer on how to do that. But the 97 display is owned by a large mother company that just owns hundreds of software companies. And so in the last year we've been able to create one and roll a new company under the umbrella where we're kind of sitting as the visionary integrator for those. And then over the next year, I think the path moving forward will be to kind of have someone sit in the integrator for the company as we form this like, you know, the mother, like C suite level company and have integrators running each individual brand. But right now, as we're kind of figuring that out, we've just taken over a new company in the past like month. We're kind of sitting in a lot of seats to, to figure it out and roll EOS out to them to get them on the same page. But the truth is, the only way we were able to do that now was, you know, and I think that I saw this in some capacity of I can't do this alone because, you know, visionaries, honestly, like are great, but I think there's no shortage of great vision. Right. It's the. Is the implementation of that vision and having people bought into it. I always use the example of like, you can go to your local, like startup accelerator and hear like, you know, 100 really good pitches of vision and 99 of those will turn into nothing.

So true.

So vision isn't hard to find and that's my strength and what I'm passionate about. And so really, two years ago, we started the conversation, it was more of like, hey, let's look at this as like a testing ground and an investment into the long term future of. I'm always going to need an integrator and Christie's always going to need a visionary. And how could. If we could work really well together, that's a really rare and unique, like, valuable skill set that we would have that will propel us. That's bigger than just 97. And now, you know, we have a few companies this with and even beyond, you know, what that looks like. I think that's like the secret sauce to my, like, love that, you know, plans to. To move on.

Love that. So, Christy, you, you, you stepped into the seat. Did you. Did you jump into it full time? Did you still have to hang on to another seat? Was there some kind of a transition that happened there? What did that look like?

Um, it was relatively full time. I, I had. I typically position myself where we both do this really well, where we are always ready for the next opportunity. So it was really positioning myself in a sense where I could shift pretty quickly. So it was full time pretty quick.

And what challenges did that bring with it? Or did it just kind of click immediately and it was just easy peasy and everything worked the way that the book said it would work or was it like, oh, this piece was hard. What was hard?

If only it was that easy. Yeah, so there was definitely some challenges. But it was. There were challenges. I think Houston would agree. Like it almost. It was easier than what we thought, but it was also harder than we thought in some areas. So it's an interesting dynamic. I think some of the challenges that I had initially was it's a unique position to be the final say so as the integrator. But I still report to Houston. So there's a weird, like challenge of power there of I have to respect my boss's vision and respect my bosses, like all the things that come with that, but at the same time, I'm the final decision maker. So that's an. That was an interesting Thing that took a little time for me, I feel like, to even set, settle in of where's my place with this, like that. That was an interesting piece of being an integrator. And I think another challenge was acting like speaking for each other and acting as one versus acting as two. The closest thing I can equate it to is like when you first get married and you're like, oh, it's not just about me anymore. There's like this other person that comes. So it's like similar to that sense. Everything I did, I had to communicate it back to Houston. Everything he did, he had to communicate it back to me so that we were always on the same page. And that was definitely a struggle. We actually hired a, what we called a marriage counselor. It was the joke. It was a marriage. But he's a leadership coach. So for about the first, I don't know, four to six months, ish, we had him once a month where we would just like sit down with him and work out those issues. And I mean, we still have like little hiccups and blips. But I think those were some of the bigger challenges was just that power struggle and the communication was different.

What was the biggest thing you learned from that coach?

I mean, I think for me, distinctively, I remember when we first did the, whatever the assessment is with eos, where you kind of get the whole company to take a test to see like where you're at for the traction.

The organizational checkup.

Yeah, organizational checkup. So for me, I remember distinctly being like, okay, cool. Our, like our, you know, our meeting pulse definitely will be low. Like this will be low. Our accountability trial below. But the vision is going to be 10 out of 10.

Mm.

Because in my head the vision is so clear. There's no way anyone works here and doesn't have that vision. And the vision was like a four overall. And for me that was just like a big wake up call of like, oh man, what I am doing is not distilling down into like the everyday person good at all. And so I think, you know, one of the things that the coach helped us with was to give me appropriate times to be able to just like. Because sometimes I just like to get on a whiteboard and not know where I'm starting and just kind of like go and say here's everything in my, my head and you know, kind of brain dump everything. And at first I was doing that not in a super healthy way. So at work we termed it like a Houston hurricane where I would kind of Come into a meeting and kind of just derail it with a whole another idea or see a solution to a problem that they didn't see and just kind of like, you know, say, well, this is what you should do and then kind of leave. And so then we kind of said, okay, well that's not good. We need to go through the integrator and use eos. And then that kind of had me be isolated and feel like, well, I'm not getting to, to do that. And so what we really worked through is like having our same page once a month meetings and then having like meetings where I can come and say, okay, this is like my safe space to like talk about things that may, I may hate them by the time I'm done talking about them, but at least I can like get them out and verbally process them. And that was helpful for us.

Yeah, also too, like, add on that having a third party coach for those first like four to six months was really helpful. Maybe not even, I mean, of course he taught us things, but just to have someone sit in because I have the integrator mind and he has the visionary mind. So it's like, it's already hard to level with one another at that sense. So having a third party that could kind of see both sides and help us just level with one another was really helpful. So I would, I would just kind of add that to also what Houston said for sure.

So how long did it take? How long did it take before you felt like, you know, sort of the, the awkwardness or the friction and kind of figuring each other out and kind of how to match up? How long did that take before you felt like it really started to crank and you started to hit your stride?

Man, we're still working through it now. I mean, there's always things to work on. I think that, you know, one of the things that, that came up when we implemented eos, which I think is popular, especially because we timed this right around Covid and we're in a software company and so there was like the great resignation. So we actually, we, we don't really typically experience a lot of employee attrition, but we actually like churned like five or six staff over a six month period and a 30 person company, which is a pretty huge chunk because people saw that we're kind of like buying into this and that kind of like, you know, that that made enough like rough the waters up enough for us, like, okay, we don't really have time to concentrate on what's not working and not because we got to move forward together, because there's, like, some real things going on. And then, you know, we kind of got through that. And then, you know, towards the end of 2021, early 2022, it's just, like. It's, like, gradually, then all of a sudden. So it's like you make little gradual improvements, and all of a sudden, like, now we've been working with this new company for the last, like, 30. Just, like 30 days. And we were just talking at our. We had our, like, same page day last week, and one of the things we do is, like, rate, like, rank and rate the last month, like, scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the best we've ever been, so not perfect. And one being the worst we've ever been, so not, like, terrible. Where are we at? And we both said, hey, I think we're, like, at the height of our game right now, because, you know, now it's. It's really. It's been an interesting challenge where it's like, okay, here are things that I can't even be involved in, and you have to go do those, and then I'm going to be over here and do that. We have to kind of know what's going on, but not spend an hour, like, re. Like, re. Regurgitating. This is everything that happened, right? So it's kind of like trusting each other to stay in our lanes and do things appropriately. And that's been really fun to see because it's definitely been an improvement over the. Over the last two years.

Christy, how do you feel about that?

Yeah, I would say, as far as, like, surface working together, I would say that we kind of hit our stride, like, three to six months in Ish, but there was deeper things that we were trying to work through. So I would say, on a surface level, three to six months. But I would definitely agree that we've definitely hit our stride within the last. Probably three to six months here. So that's probably. I don't know what, two years into the journey, a year and a half into the journey, where it's almost, like. Almost to the point where it's like, I know where his. His head's at, and he knows where my head's at at all times. And it's. We almost could make decisions on each other's behalf and then go back and be like, that's exactly what I would have done. So it's. We've almost. It's. Removing yourself from the equation, being like, okay, what would Houston do? Wwhd? What would Houston do here. And then you can kind of take that. And I know exactly what his answer would be. And then I know what my perspective is. And then like make a decision without even having him in the room, which is interesting.

I love that. I love that. So talk to me about your same page. Discipline. So I'm hearing once a month. How long are they typically? And has that changed? All day. All day. So where do you do it?

Well, we usually go off site. We actually used to go off site to a really cool like co working space, but we actually just moved into that co working space and took it over like three months ago. So we like bought all the furniture and because we were like, man, this is so nice. And so we just moved our whole office there. So. But typically other than this last time, we actually did it in our office because we're still kind of like searching for the next place. But we have a pretty good setup right now in our office. But typically it's off site and it usually starts at like 9 or 10. So we get in the morning and like handle some emails and stuff. And then we just write a issues list up. So we have, we use 90 and so we have our own like, you know, Vi channel. So we write up all our issues and kind of what are the things we want to accomplish? And typically we kind of map it out where it's like, okay, we're going to do like two or three hours of IDS and then we'll go do lunch and then we'll come back and look at some to dos that maybe we need to like, you know, maybe there's a specific thing where we need to like set an agenda for an off site for the team or set up this thing or, you know, tackle this one thing. And, and so I say all day, but typically we wrap up by like, I don't know, two or three just depending. But we reserve the whole day, we block the whole day in case we need it.

Yep.

Have, have you, over the time you've been doing that, have you figured out sort of some things that tend to work better for, for each other? Right. So some, some of my integrators, I'll hear them say that they know when to discuss a certain type of issue or they know how to discuss a certain type of issue with their visionary. When it's going to be, you know, more productive, they'll be more open to it, they'll be more, you know, receptive, you know, whatever, whatever the situation may be. Christy, have you kind of learned that or Houston, Same. Same thing. Have you. Have you learned something specific about each other that. That seems to work that way.

Yeah. I mean, I think there's always tact involved when you're working with that counterpart, but I can't think of anything specifically off the top of my head. I do know when he's in. When he's in, you know, go, go, go, go, go mode, and when he's in, I want to be in front of a whiteboard and just like, idea mode. So I'm very aware of those modes. And when we're in the go, go, go mode, it's like I'm an execution. Like, I'm executing momo mode. And when he's in whiteboard mode, I can kind of, like, slow down and then, like, start to slip in some of the things I'm thinking. So, yeah, I would say, like, those types of situations I've picked up on, for sure.

Tell me about a time it got really tense.

It gets tense between the.

Between the two of you where you just weren't seeing it the same way.

So one of the reasons why it was such a shock to me that the team, like, rated the vision as a four is because in my head, it's, like, crystal clear. And I try to, like, be fairly consistent about, like, what I say and how I present myself, and I try to, like, be clear. And obviously I've gotten better at that with eos has been really helpful. But I can. I can remember just a few months ago when we were talking about, like, direction and moving forward, it wasn't necessarily that we didn't agree. I think that. I think that in my mind, we were on the same page because I'm serious. Like, I'm like, my job is a big part of my life, and I'm so serious about it and this or that. And I think we came to a head where it was like, I don't want to say not buying into it, but, like, we kind of came to a point ahead where I was like, okay, we're not acting like we believe this together. And that kind of elicited like, I'm fairly like a even keel, like, not emotional person. And that kind of brought an emotional response for me to be like, hey, this is serious. And I think when that happened, we kind of got on the same page. And Chrissy was like, oh, you're actually, like, serious about. You're for real about this? And I was like, how could I communicate this more clearly? And I remember she was like, you honestly couldn't. Like, you're you're saying it, but I just, like, now I see that you're serious about what you're saying. And that was like a, you know, for me, I'm like, frustrated. Like, what. What does that mean? You know? And then for her, it's like, you know, takes time to do things. But I think that was our most recent tense moment.

To add to that, I think that that was a very tense moment of. I saw us as the VI of 97 and Houston was seeing us as like the VI for life. Like, it was like, it was much more intense situ in it. And that to me was a turning point too. So it was a very tense week, week and a half. But that was a very big turning point for me too, to say, like, oh, what we have is extremely rare. And I guess I didn't understand the weight of how rare it really was. And Houston explaining all that to me was like, very helpful to understand those things. But that was a very tense moment. But outside of that, we have disagreements, but we're very great at like, disagreeing and committing. So tents. I mean, and we're also pretty intense people. Both of us are like, we're. We're both pretty challenging people. So my version of what tense would mean is likely very different from the next person because I don't feel tenses. It have to hit something pretty high to be. Feel tense.

So you're. So you're very comfortable being uncomfortable, right? Or so you're.

I mean, that's not something like us arguing is a Tuesday. Like, we. We argue often, but it's not, it's not unhealthy arguments, but it's just not seeing eye to eye, disagreeing and committing and be like, yep, we're doing this. And then we walk out and it's over. And it doesn't really come back up. So.

So when you think about, you know, integrator is the tiebreaker, how does that show up in your relationship?

I, you know, I think that's an area that we can improve on with the leadership team, because I was actually just talking to someone who's exiting 197 who's on the leadership team. And, you know, we're doing like, you know, getting feedback and things. And it was a good exit. It was, you know, different life stage and things like that. But one of the things that kind of came out of that was sometimes I'm the. I'm still the loudest voice in the room. And it's. It's like an unintended consequence maybe of just like, sometimes being very sure and being very vocal and encouraging. Like, what I want is, like, for people to disagree and to, like, argue and battle, and then if I don't, you know, it doesn't go my way. That's okay, because that's why we have eos. But. And maybe part of it is because we're on the same page as well. But, like, a lot of times, if we know we're going into a big issue with the leadership team, I'll get with her and be like, hey, let's same page this before.

Love it.

Because I want to make sure that we at least see each other's point of view so we're not, like, arguing and, like, disagreeing. So I don't think we've ever had a situation where she's been the tiebreaker against something that I felt strongly about in front of the team. We've done that always in private.

Yeah, it's like the. We don't want the parents arguing.

Yeah, that's so helpful. It is so painful when that happens and a visionary integrator come into the room and they just go at it for 30 minutes, and the rest of the leadership team is just kind of sitting there with their hands crossed watching this tennis match go back and forth, and it's just so painful and awkward. And that's unnecessary. Right. So that's really, really great to hear.

We're very intentional about being like, if Houston's in the room and Christie's not, we have the exact same brain. And if Chrissy's in the room and Houston's not, we have. It's not a facade. I was going to use the word facade, but that's the wrong word. But keeping up the image of we are an amoeba, and if dad says, no, you can't go to Mom. She's gonna say the same thing. And if mom says no, you can't go to dad. So it's like, it's. I think that's really important in front of the leadership team to make sure that they know we are united front at all times, even if sometimes we've had it in situations where we walk out of a meeting and I'll message him or he'll message me. Like, I totally disagree with that, but this is why I disagree with it. It's okay that we move forward this way, but, you know, we don't do it in front of the team, if that makes sense.

Love that. That's. That's awesome. So going back to a comment that. Christy, I think you Made, which was the VI for Life. Right. And I sort of heard this as you're moving to these different companies, you know, I have leadership teams that I'll see occasionally that are just. They're awesome. They're just like. They're so healthy. They're so talented. They're so aligned. They just run fast. They do great things together, and it's a really delicate thing to kind of keep that band together. And they can make some hits. You know, they can roll. They can do some big things, and every once in a while, I'll see one that they'll kind of leave. Maybe they have some kind of an exit. They leave a company, and sometimes they'll come back together and they'll do it again. And so I'm sort of hearing this VI for Life as sort of, you know, the band. You've kind of found your. Your. Your partner here that. That really harmonizes well with you, and you feel like you can. You can do that. You can. You can put out some hits. Is that. Am I reading that right?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I think so. Part of that was like, you know, being able to bring on this other company and say, okay, cool. This is something that I'm selling to, like, our parent company of. Traditionally, they don't run EOs, so this is like, one job, right, for. To run a company. And so it's like, hey, I'm better as a pair. And this is why. And so for me, it's like, I have no interest in, like, sitting in the integrator role ever again, regardless of if I stay with the companies that I'm at forever or if I, you know, do something else or I take over, you know, our parent company has a lot of room for us to take over, you know, 100 companies one day. And it's like, I never have the intention of going back and trying to sit in the integrated role. And one unique thing about visionary integrators that I like is they're not competing roles. So it's not like, you know, I've always been like, well, what's next? And that's really my boss's job, and that's what I'm trying to go after. But now that I'm here, and even when I was kind of sitting in the integrated role for a couple of months, as we were rolling it out, that's what I was saying, it's like, what's next? Like, I got to get out of this. But now that we're here, that what's next is how do we take on more responsibility by either growing the companies or, you know, taking on more companies with us. Right. And so there is no, like, if I had an exit, I think Chrissy would remain the integrator and maybe they don't have a visionary. And if Christie exit, I would remain the visionary and replace the integrator. So it's not like either person is like, gunning after the other's job. Um, and I think that's. That creates like a long term vision of keeping the band together because bands break apart because the backup singer wants to be the lead singer, you know, in a lot of cases and things like that. And so I think we've found a good mesh point where we're both happy with the roles we have.

Yeah, 100%.

I'm curious, Houston. I notice your visionary score is a 91. Your integrator score is a 54. On the flip side, Christy, your integrator score is a 93. Your visionary score is 52. So that tells me there's probably a lot of complementary fit there, which is great. Which you don't have this kind of fighting for the wheel, a tendency to want to grab the same stuff and run with it. But at Visionary 91, sitting in that integrator seat, Houston, for. For a while, what was most frustrating to you about that?

Well, I mean, for me, I think, like, and I don't know how to do the tools, but originally when I took that test, when I was sitting in the integrator seat, I was scored like an 80 because it was kind of like just, you know, white knuckle, gritting your teeth, like, let's get it done. And I think I've been successful sitting in seats that maybe aren't right for me just to like, say, okay, to get to the next step, this is what I have to do. And so I actually probably enjoyed it because we needed it. We really didn't have that structure. And so it wasn't, it wasn't bad. Well, I just lose patience on management. And so it's like, if I tell you something, and that's why I like having one report, because it's like taking a long time. It's like, hey, I say something, we're on the same page, you go off, I don't have to worry about it anymore. That's kind of how I manage everybody. And that just doesn't. That isn't the healthiest way to manage people. But for me, I have, like, very short patience with people where it's like, hey, if you say you're going to do something and then you go off like, I'm. I'm the opposite of a micromanager. And I'm okay for you to come and say you need help, but there's a reason why LMA isn't on the visionary seat, I think, and it is on the integrator, because that is a needed piece, like managing people, you know, not necessarily micromanaging, but more than I'm willing to do. And I really just. That really frustrates me from a personal level, just because I see everybody through the lens of how I see the world, and I see the world through, like, I hate having management. Like, I don't like being managed or, you know, I just like being told, this is where you need to be and I'll see you when you get there. And this is how long you have to get there. Right. And then I'll go figure it out and I'll ask for help if I need it. So that was definitely the hardest part for me was when we originally made that, we flattened. We flatlined the accountability chart, and I had eight reports and those. The eight departments that had like, you know, teams of three or four. So I did one on ones with them all. And just. That was a lot. There's too much.

Yeah. What I hear is, you know, it's. It's an energy thing.

Right.

It's not that you can't do it. You can do it, but it's just.

It's not sustainable.

Yeah, it's. It's not sustainable over. Over time. Back to the. To the assessment itself. The. You know, a lot of times visionaries. A lot of times visionaries are the founder, and so they've had to do a lot of stuff to kind of get the company to where it is. So their capabilities are very high. They can do lots of different things. But when you're taking that assessment, what we're really asking you to do is think about what you enjoy, what you love, what energizes you. So from that perspective, you get a much truer read. So, Christy, tell us what you see as kind of a secret to working effectively with a visionary in general. So you're kind of dialing in on what it takes to be super effective with this visionary. What do you think other integrators out there should know or be thinking about that are going to help them be more effective with. With their visionary?

Yeah, I think for me, there's a lot of things. I think trust is a big one. If you don't have trust, the Conflict's just not going to be there. Like, it's just impossible. So whatever it takes to build that trust, just know before. Until you have that trust both ways, you're just not going to get very far. So you might want to really, really focus there and hone in there. Communication is a big deal. Just making sure that that communication is healthy and it's streamlined and like Houston said, I think another big piece of it is like having fun and really appreciating what the other person brings to the table so that it's not frustrating. To Houston's point of like the Houston Hurricane, we name the weird, innate things that we have that make us special, but we, like, name them. So when it's happening, it's like we can say the buzzword and it's like, okay, I gotta relax. I gotta chill out. They're always saying I'm like the stickler. I'm like the SIF one. We always call him Houston Hurricane. So. So it's like having that piece of just that trust to call each other out when you're overdoing it and understanding each other's value that brings to the team is a really, really big one. I think that's a. That's a really big piece of it. Because even when things get hard or things get tense or Houston being a visionary gets really annoying, sometimes I have to stop and go, this is why my job is so enjoyable. It's because he does all the stuff I hate to do, and it's like, you know, and I don't want it. I don't want to do it. So it's like that piece of just really appreciating what that person brings to the table. But you can't have any of those things unless you have that really solid foundation of trust and just like, shared values.

Were you surprised? And this question to both of you when you. When you figured out that there was somebody else out there in the world that actually loved to do the things that you hated to do.

Yeah, I was. I don't think that's something that I learned recently. I remember distinctively before I even started at 97, coming to the realization that not everyone wanted to be the leader in every group they were in. So for me, my whole life, whether it was like in band, wanted to be the band captain or a pickup team, wanted to be the captain or, you know, lead a, you know, community group or whatever it is, like, that's just always something where it's like, put me in the seat and then show me What I need to do to like grow in the seat so I can be like the best person that everyone likes, you know, can rely on to like, go take what I see and make it a reality. And I think probably in my, like mid-20s, I realized for a long time I just lived my life thinking I was in competition with everyone at all times for that seat. You know, so if someone's like, hey, split into groups and let's, you know, do a project and pick somebody to like lead it and then present it, it's like in my mind everyone is competing to figure out how to be that person. And so I remember, you know, maybe like six or seven years ago really realizing like, oh man, not everybody wants that. And some people want it in certain aspects, but not in all aspects. And in my life, it's not necessarily even to be like the person. It's just like it's a new opportunity to test if I can see something and then get some people to help me make it, turn it into a reality. Because that's very fun for me. So it's not even necessarily like to be seen by others or this or that. And so one of the reasons why I got into software was to like learn a more long term, like career route for me because my background's in real estate and I just wasn't really a fan of like the transactional stuff and wanted to, I like the recurring revenue and software is a little more scalable and sellable and things like that. And so, you know, fairly immediately coming into the company where there wasn't a lot of structure, you know, I've been looking for that, okay, who can be my, you know, person that helps me implement. And then, so then when you read eos, it's like I said, eos and even reading Rocket Fuel, the experience I had reading Rocket Fuel was less, oh my gosh, this is revolutionary. I've never thought about it. And it was like, oh my gosh, I can like take all these things I feel and put them into words. And now I'm much more clear on what I'm looking for. And so it's almost like remembered. Not learned is a way to put it. Like, obviously there were some things in it that, you know, I learned as well, but it was more or less like I've been very bad about articulating what I need and what I'm looking for, but I know it's there. And I've been looking for it and been frustrated because I can't find it. And then EOS and Rocket fuel. Help me say, oh, this is exactly what I'm looking for. This is exactly the problems. And now I can articulate it more clearly, which is going to give me a better chance to go, like, sell that to somebody and get them to buy into, to do this with me.

Christy, was your experience similar in terms of here's a. Here's a label, here's a name to call this integrator thing, which is a collection of things that I love to do and I'm really good at, to a sense.

Yeah, I. I would say. I have always worked under visionaries, like, very, very hardcore visionaries. So for me, it was a slightly different experience of the integrator seat not feeling as important like the leader of the company. Being a visionary just felt like that was it. And once I realized there was a second piece to it, that was the vital piece of executing was really powerful for me. And I remember talking to my leadership coach about two years ago, and I was talking to him about that, and I was trying to morph my leadership st into that, like, visionary style, because that was the example I had in front of me a lot of the times. And he said, there's two things. There's creators and recreators, and neither of them are more important than the other. Like, one is the creator, but one takes that, recreates it to make it better and actually does it. And that was a big aha for me. It's almost the opposite. I knew there were people out there to love to do the opposite things for me, but I didn't know there was people out there that love to do the things I like to do. Does that make sense? It was almost like the reverse of that.

It's the kind of the. I'm not alone. There's. There's other people out there, like, Right.

And there's value to. It was a really big piece for me of, like, oh, I didn't have to be an assistant or, you know, be the one that is, like, getting the things done, or I didn't have to be a manager my whole life. Like, I love management. That's what I'm good at. But I don't want to be a manager my whole life. You know, I wanted to rise in those ranks. So that was a helpful realization for me of. I knew there were a lot of visionaries out there because that was most of my experience, but I didn't know there were integrators out there. And it was a value.

Great.

Yeah, love that.

Houston, let me ask you the Same kind of question I asked Christy, which is, you know, for other visionaries that are listening, what would you tell them you've kind of learned is a key element to having a super productive relationship with your integrator counterpart.

Yeah. So I think one is understanding how you like to communicate and understand how, like, one thing that I've been working on a lot is like, one of the things that you give up in leadership is the like, convenience of having people communicate to you the way you like to be communicated. And instead you meet people where they are in communicating. And that was a really big, like, realization for me. Like I said, when we were. When I realized the team wasn't on the same page with me. So it's like, I have this vision and I'm not communicating. I'm communicating a way where I understand, but I'm not communicating a way where other people understand. And that was frustrating to me at first because it's like, well, it's so clear to me. Why isn't it clear to you? Like, and so working with the integrator, I think one is seeing the value of like. Like I said, part of what working with integrator like advice to visionaries would be realize that you're not that special, but there's plenty of people with cool visions out there. And the key to making those visions come into reality, either you don't have. Well, not either, like you don't have. And you need somebody to buy into your vision and be able to take those and make them into reality. And that's going to require sacrifices on your part of how you communicate and even how much of your like, visionary tendencies you let out at once. Right. And so it's like building that trust of, you know, sometimes I try to reign in and say, okay, cool, let's get to the same page today. And then I'm gonna, like, I have all these ideas, but then sometimes it's like, hey, this is a really bad decision that these people are making independently. And I see a solution. And I know this isn't always super helpful, but I need to step in and like unload a little bit of vision and cat and give some problems, some solutions to the problems. Because we can't wait three weeks for me to get in a room and be hidden from the company. And so kind of like getting that balance of when is it appropriate for me to come in and not overstep the integrators role of managing. And so just really, I think for most visionaries that I know, it's like you got to get over yourself and realize you're actually not that special. And the secret sauce is having somebody that's willing to implement and do all of that and communicate to the team all that you trust. And so that kind of goes to the, like, keeping the band together long term. Like, for me, I see a lot of value in that because I've tried that for a long time. I feel like we're doing a pretty good job of having a pulse of that. And in my mind, especially after reading books and Talking to other VI's and talking to other implementers about that, and, you know, that's what even what got us to be able to meet you, which I haven't even freaked out about because I love your book and I would love to pick your brain and ask you some questions sometimes, but it's like the real valuable thing that I have is having an integrator that can take my vision and knows how to communicate with me to make it a reality. And that's more beneficial to me than a lot of other opportunities that I have in front of me.

Love that. Let me ask you this. So one of the things, if you think just using sort of the altitude, you know, visualization, you know, visionaries flying at a higher altitude, you know, let's say you're at 30,000ft and a frontline employee, maybe they're at 3,000ft or 300ft, whatever. There's a pretty big delta there, which is a language thing, too. Back to your why the vision is crystal clear to you. It's not crystal clear to them. One of the things that we see is the integrator needs to be able to fly close enough to the visionary's altitude to understand their language. A lot of times they play translator then for the rest of the organization. So. So, Christy, do you feel that. Do you find yourself sometimes translating Houston's vision in a way that others in the organization can understand it? And what does that look like?

I would say yes. I think he's really great at painting his vision in a way others understand it. I think what is missing is, like, the how or how do. Like, how does that person play a part into that vision? That's where I find myself more than translating the vision, because he's. He's great at communicating his vision well in a simple form. But he's not where I find myself as connecting the dots of like, okay, person at 3,000ft. This is what you do to make sure we see this through. And then this next person at 3000, this is what you do.

So, so it's, it's kind of here's what this means for me.

Yeah, in a sense, but I'm more like that connector. I'm better at connecting the dots for them of what that means for them. That makes sense.

And then that, that is how when they get the question on the organizational checkup, right. On the clarity of the vision, that's what is in their head. Right. Is understanding what it means for them. So that's a, that's a loop we've had to kind of close. Have you seen progress on that, Houston?

Oh, yeah, man. Like, one of the most special, like moments of my career was so we, when we did our annual off site with our leadership team last October, we made it a whole week. So we did two days of the leadership team and then we brought the managers in for a day for like team building and we brought the whole team in. We like two hours away. We rented hotels for everybody, you know, did big dinner, you know, the topgolf and then had a whole Friday where we sat down and we cast division for this year with the multiple companies. Even though we didn't, we didn't even know what that looked like yet. Right. Because we didn't have the opportunity that we just had in the last month. And I remember talking to the whole team and everyone's on the same page. Everyone knows where we're going. Everyone's like, right seat, everyone's the right person for that seat. And we had gone through a huge transition with EOS to get there. A lot and a lot of pain. And so I talked to him. I was like, man, we're on the other side of the tunnel. And I just don't think many companies get here, you know, where, where we're going to come up with things. And, and it's just everyone literally is taking the vision and making it bigger and like, so now we have to expand our vision to keep high talent. And we're doing all these things. And you know, that even came into just like 30 days ago. We took it to our leadership team and said, hey, we have this opportunity. There's a new company, their founder is stepping down. They wanted me to come run it. I said, I'm EOS till I die. So if you want me to come run it, we're doing CEO, coo, coming to run it. And we're having two people step in, which is going to be in their traditional views. Like two people doing one job. It's like, but I'm a package deal for this. And I didn't think they would say yes. And they end up saying, yeah, let's do it, let's try it out. And so I went to the leadership team. I was like, it's not ideal timing. We have a lot going on with 97 display. I don't want to do this if this is going to be seen as a negative light for the company as well. And the leadership team was like, you know, on our three year picture is three separate companies with three separate P Ls in three years. And that three years ends at the end of next year. We have to do this. Like this is the vision that we're going towards. We'll figure out the how later. And that was like really special for me because I kind of regressed into the weeds where I was looking going like at all of the next hundred feet, like how are we going to do this? And I was kind of on the ground level and I took it to them and was struggling and they were like, oh no. Remember when you were up here, this is where you said 2 years ago we were going to be and this is the next step that has to happen. So we're in on this and we'll figure it out later. And that was like a really. That was like a crescendo of I feel like our company being bought into the same vision because obviously this doesn't impact them as much as it impacts like my workload and my absence at 97, you know, part time at least. And so that was really cool.

Yeah, that's a very cool story. So the two of you, I'm super excited about how well you seem to work together and about how excited you are about each of your respective roles and kind of taking that power and multiplying it over multiple companies. That's a pretty cool story. So I thank you for sharing it with me today and I'm sure there's lots more. We could go on for a long time and go off in all kinds of directions. One thing I would ask you is if there's anything, if our listeners want to learn more about your companies, learn more about you, what's really the best way for them to get in touch?

Yeah, I would say on socials, we are 97 display across all platforms. That's a 97 display.

Very cool. Anything else before we go?

I think that's all for me.

That's good. Well, thanks so much again. I'm super grateful for you sharing the time with us today and sharing your experience and your cool story and It's a pleasure for me to finally get to meet both of you. So until next time, let's go rock it. Thank you for joining me today for another inspiring story. Are you an Integrator? Are you ready to begin your journey to integrator mastery? Visit rocketfueluniversity.com to join the free Rocket Fuel community and learn how to register for an upcoming Integrator Masterclass. You cannot build a great business on multiple operating systems. You must choose one. EOS1 is the simple to use software exclusively from the makers of EOS. By bringing everything EOS into one place, EOS1 allows you to run better meetings, access the foundational tools faster, and build a More accountable team. One vision, one system, one team. Start your 30 day free trial of EOS1 today at eos1.com.