Break the Bottleneck in Your Business | Tiffany Szakal & Aubrey Kuipers

As a visionary, it's very easy to try to do something alone, but I have very rarely been successful doing it alone. So as soon as I realized that I was the bottleneck to my own success and that bringing an integrator in and actually listening to what they say, it changed everything. I go so much further because I have Aubrey. I'm so glad for our open and honest communication because that is what moves us forward.

Hey, this is Mark Sieber Winters, co author of Rocket Fuel and expert EOS implementer. Welcome to the Rocket Fuel podcast where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create what we call Rocket Fuel. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome my two guests to the show, Tiffany Zaakel and Aubrey Kippers of I Heart Grand Rapids Real Estate. Tiffany and Aubrey have worked together at three different companies. They credit their solid visionary integrator relationship for cultivating open and honest communication, achieving business goals, and strengthening personal friendships. In this episode, Tiffany and Aubrey highlight how prioritizing alignment between the why of your personal life and the why of your professional career ultimately creates a more fulfilling life. We're going to begin the show where Tiffany and Aubrey describe how they began their business together. Let's dive in. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Tiffany Zakel and Aubrey Kippers from iHeart Grand Rapids Real Estate. IHeartGR is a local first real estate agency focused on connecting you to the best of Grand Rapids communities. So thanks for your time today and welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. We're excited to be here.

It's super great to meet both of you and I'm very interested to learn more. Appreciate your time today. So before we start, could you kind of give us a little bit of background on your company?

Yeah, absolutely. So we started iheartgr after leaving a regional brokerage that we were managing for another company. We thought, okay, now it's time, let's do this. We know enough to be dangerous for decision making and we'll learn along the way. And it's been a really fun adventure. We started that right in the beginning of 2020, and I remember sitting with Aubrey and saying, what if it's just us a couple of weeks before everything shut down? And it has been an absolutely incredible ride since then. What we've experienced in our community has really been an incredible amount of growth and collaboration and a definite shift in the way real estate has been since then.

I'm very curious if you're in a business that's so focused on, you know, the local community, like that. Are both of you local? Born and raised there. Been there all your life. Tell me about the connections that you have that puts you in such a great position to do what you do in your community.

So I, from this community, I moved here in 2008 right as the recession was hitting for a contract actually, in real estate to sell, primarily foreclosures. Moved here from Miami to the west Michigan area in a blizzard. And I thought they were fake nice to me. For the first three years, I thought, there's no way people could be like this nice at all. And I've never wanted to leave. Obvs is exactly the opposite.

Aubrey, what's your story?

Yep. Born and raised here. Born, like in Grand Rapids. Raised in Grand Rapids. Lived within downtown probably about 15 minutes my entire life. So it's.

Yeah.

And I love being able to watch it grow and also just learn so much more about the city as I've gotten older and get to really experience it from childhood to adulthood.

That's cool. And so, Tiffany, I can only imagine your experience, though, coming from Miami to a blizzard. I mean, we're like, freaking out about, what have I done? Where am I?

Yes to all of that. What have I done? I'm moving across the country in a completely different winter environment to a place that I know no one. I knew no one. It was definitely a challenge.

So let's hop forward to you guys. I believe you were working together at a different company. Is that right? And at some point along there, Tiffany, you decide to start your own thing.

So. No, actually, this is the third company Aubrey and I have worked together at. We worked together very briefly. I. It was almost a passing through of a brokerage. I was leaving as she was coming into real estate brokerage. Was that 2016? Maybe 2017, perhaps somewhere around there. And so I had taken note of her. I think we maintained a little bit of a relationship, but when I was. I was ready for help, she was the one.

Right. And so how did you find out that there was a kind of a visionary integrator, kind of a structure where somebody might be able to be your complimentary puzzle piece, if you will.

Yeah, I think this is really funny because I didn't realize the book that Aubrey has on her desk is actually the one that I was introduced to this concept. So I was managing a brokerage for this regional company that we talked a little bit about earlier, and I didn't have any support. It was me as the managing broker and a whole bunch of sales agents and no help in that way. And so my inspector called me. He said, go immediately to Barnes and Noble. Get rocket fuel. Amazon will take too long. You need this book right now. And so I went and I picked it up. And throughout the book, which has my notes and doodles and all sorts of things, I just keep asking, who is my person?

Oh, that's cool.

I bookmarked it. It says, I need this person.

Oh, that is so cool. I love that. Who is my person? Who is my person? So the person who that pointed you to the book, who were they? Did you say an inspector?

Yeah, an inspector. So inspector and I both have a lot of visionary components. We didn't know that that was what that was. We kept calling each other multipotentialites and we serial entrepreneurs, all sorts of things like this in this way. And he's like, this is what you need right now. So my inspector called me. Really, really great friends still. We had worked together at another company and both opened our own businesses right around the same time.

Awesome. Okay, so you've got your own business. You figure out I need this person. Who's this person? And immediately you think, what?

Well, immediately I thought, how can I do this for the cheapest possible.

Okay, what was the answer to that question?

It wasn't good. It was not good. I started first with an intern. I thought, okay, an intern is the way to go. And then I thought, virtual professional is the way to go. I had a really great virtual professional, but that wasn't the answer. And so I didn't higher up to the level that I needed to. So when finally we got to the conversation with Aubrey, it was, this is what I need. This is what it has to be. I need to have somebody. That's my second. Because I can't keep having yes men in this process and them dictating that I'm not accurately communicating.

And so that first conversation about the possibility of Aubrey filling that seat, where did that happen?

At a bar.

A bar. I had no idea what the answer to this question was going to be, but that's the perfect answer. So you're at this bar. What kind of bar was.

It was a local brewery owned by two high school teachers, I think math, in fact, that also had pizza, and I think had a total of six people in it, including us.

Oh, that's perfect. Okay, so you're at the bar, you're having whatever you're having. What were you having, by the way?

Oh, I don't know. It Was some craft brew of some sort.

And I was drinking sangria, I remember.

Sangria in a brew pub. Oh, come on.

Yes, right, of course.

So you're catching up on old times, I'm assuming was the COVID story, right?

Yeah.

And while Tiffany had this. Had this ulterior motive, so you'd lay it out there and Aubrey, your reaction was what?

Well, to be fair, this first conversation was all cover story. I did not know that this was an interview of sorts. I thought we were just two friends catching up. We tell everyone the story because it's so funny. And then I leave from her and I having this conversation. And the next day she messages me and she's like, I want to offer you a full time position working with me. And I was like, what are you talking about? And she's like, that was an interview and we need to talk about you coming to work for me. So that's how it went.

So did you say, hey, you need to read this book or you know, how did she tell you what the position was going to be like?

That's a good question. I think. I don't think it really started out as me knowing that I was filling the integrator role. I'm trying to remember. Tiffany, do you remember when you introduced this book to me?

Well, I think it was when I was trying to self implement it as the visionary, which is not at all a good way to be. So I thought this myself and bring Aubrey in without actually having the conversation with her that she needed to be brought in. And so, yep, that was how that went. Was trying to self implement. And then I discovered I can't do that. That's not real life. And so I gave her the book and I said, hey, you should read this. It was highly recommended by our inspiration. You should read it. And she did not. I will just say right now, that's right, she did not. But she has filled so very completely into the integrator role without even realizing she was doing it. She's just been every step of the way coming alongside us in the business and making sure that it runs very, very effectively. Because I cannot. There's no way.

Okay, so the meeting in the brew pub was how long ago?

2018.

Okay, so three, four years maybe.

Right?

Yeah.

And so, Aubrey, have you ever read the book? You didn't read it at first, it doesn't sound like. But eventually you read it.

I have, but I didn't read it until after we were already doing it. Yes, until after we were already speaking with our coach and Learning it from her. Then I read the book and saw even more potential.

Okay, so you start to fill into the roles and so think about your leadership team structure. Do either of you still sit in more than one seat? Are you both purely in the visionary integrated seat? So you're both shaking your heads. So what other seats are you sitting in?

So I'm sitting in the managing broker seat still, mainly for clients. It's a requirement of the broker position to oversee licensees. And then ob. Do you have a couple of seats too?

Yep. Like the marketing seat. And so I'm also integrator marketing. And then, yeah, Tiffany is visionary. And what do we have your other one as to community, but community builder as well.

Community builder. Okay, so what percentage of your time, Aubrey, do you spend in the integrator seat versus the other seats you sit in?

Oh, that's a good question. I would say right now. Oh, this is such an odd question right now because we're in this like weird ramp up stage.

Okay.

I want to say right Now I'm probably 75% integrator.

Okay.

25% marketing.

And Tiffany, what about for you? What percentage of your time are you able to spend in that visionary seat?

Yeah, I would say mine's the inverse of Aubrey. So right now because of the ramp up stage that we're in, we have set the vision, we know exactly where to go, we're working towards it with the integration of those services and people. So I'm probably Exactly the opposite. 25% in visionary right now.

Got it. You're in that production mode sounds like, right?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. So as you've kind of, you begin to get clear on what the seats are and kind of how they're supposed to work together. And you know, you're spending at least Aubrey spending probably more time than she has in the past. What are some of the things that you've learned? So what's been the most difficult adjustment that you've had to make to kind of make that relationship really work and make it really productive in the way that you want it to be?

For me, the biggest challenge was letting go. It was letting go. So sure. And I think it told its tale with me trying to self implement the visionary integrator role first by myself and then slowly bringing Aubrey on. The letting go is the biggest challenge for me. I trust her so very completely, but I still feel like I hopelessly believe that I'm going to accomplish things that actually she should be doing.

So talk to me more about that. I mean, we see Letting go as a challenge that a lot of visionaries have. And, you know, when Gino and I first started working on the book, I believed that we were going to find that it was because of a sort of almost a control freak gene where it was just this inability to let go. What we saw more and more, Tiffany, was that it really was almost always rooted in some form of trust, where somewhere in their past something bad had happened. You know, there's this precious thing that they had handed off to somebody else to take care of. That other person sort of dropped it and broke it. And they're like, wow, that was my baby. You heard it. And so they wrestle with that. They wrestle with letting go. But you said trust is not an issue. So I'm really curious, what do you feel like is the issue?

I think that wasting her time is my issue. I have so many ideas, so very many ideas, and sometimes I hyper focus on that idea and I go really, really deep on a topic and I'm really wide on it, and I feel like if I give her this idea that's not fully fleshed out yet, it's going to be a waste of her going through. Now, she's very good at refocusing us back to a hedgehog concept, like, let's focus here. But I go on so many wild goose chases all, all week long that I really do fear wasting her time.

Do you think out loud, are you. Are you that person that, that, you know, you just kind of. You're processing sort of verbally outside all the time. Aubrey's laughing. Is that a yes?

This is a recent conversation we've had.

Yeah. In fact, this working together in the same space has really brought some things to light that I had no idea was a thing.

Interesting. Okay, so that's good to know. Right. It's just sort of self awareness there. That look I'm trying to be conscious of in this case, Aubrey's time. Don't want to waste it trying to find ways to work together so that you can do what you need to do, have the space to process the way you need to process, but then get that shared and communicated and aligned on with Aubrey so she can do the. The part that she does. Aubrey, what's been the challenging thing from your perspective, you know, for this kind of relationship and really making it work effectively.

Mine's somewhat similar, but it's more about the seating that we have. So getting Tiffany out of specific seats, just because I am excited for her to focus fully mostly on the visionary role, which I know that is going to be so amazing when she can. So just getting her out of some of those other seats and trying to find the right people for those seats.

So what has been a time where as you're kind of figuring each other out in terms of how this relationship works and you're, you know, you're doing your best to help each other as much as you can, has there been a time where it's been kind of really uncomfortable? And usually what that comes up around is where you're just seeing things differently? You know, kind of one of you sees it this way, one of you sees it that way, and it's just not an obvious click in and get on the same page, but it's just kind of really tough and sometimes that gets super uncomfortable, super awkward. Has there been a situation like that that you've had to work through?

I would say that we've had a couple of sessions with our coach where one of us may have been teary eyed, but it's nothing, probably both of us. I definitely don't feel badly about any of it. I think that it's. We completely walked away so much stronger from those conversations. And I don't think either of us had harsh feelings towards each other or anything like that. It was just us coming to terms with that decision or that where we were heading.

What do you think is the thing that allows you to be able to have that kind of conflict and be healthy on the other side of it? You know what I mean? Walk away without bad feelings, harshness. What's key to making that kind of conflict?

I think open and honest communication has been very necessary in those conversations. I think that the difficulty is the recognition of growth that has to occur. And if we don't have that open dialogue, it's stalling where we should be going. And so every single time has been a necessary conversation, but a really good, really good growth conversation.

So what's next in terms of being able to like, let's work on Tiffany first. So she's got a couple extra seats that she's sitting in. Let's say we can get her out of one of those. You got compliance issues and kind of all the things that go with that. But let's say we want to work on one of those. Where does that issue sit on your radar right now in terms of priority?

That's a hard one because I want to say that because we are in this ramping up stage right now, it's hard to get her out of those seats. So to me, it's like top priority. But can it happen right now?

Tiffany, what do you think?

I agree, it is top priority. We have a couple of programs that we're putting into place with support people that I'm very excited to get going. But we know that it's a 90 day process to get to that point. And so the next 90 days is going to be really tough. It's going to be very production oriented. But we, we both are still pointed towards the vision of where we're going. And so I think that just knowing that we have to work through some of these do, do, do, and then, and I can move on to that, but it's top priority for both of us for me to elevate out of a couple of those seats that I'm still in.

Right. So talk to me about your same page meetings. So how often do you have a same page meeting?

Once a week.

Once a week. How long is it?

I think ours are 90 minutes currently.

Are you able to get through all the issues every time?

No.

No. You're laughing.

We have a lot going on right now, but we, we used to make the mistake of taking care of the easiest ones first. No, no, not anymore. So we are tackling the bulk, the biggest priority issues first, which is most likely why we don't get through the majority of them.

Yeah, glad, glad to hear you've come around on that. So where do you have your same page meetings?

Same place every time, unless I need some caffeine and then we do it in a coffee shop. But not the busy ones anymore. I'm just going to tell you. Not a good, not a good plan.

Aubrey, anything that's interesting that you find about the same page meetings? One of the things I hear from some integrators is that they have sort of decoded their visionary in a way that they sort of know how and when to ask about certain things or to bring up certain issues. Have you figured out Tiffany's code yet?

Yeah, I feel like, you know, this is something, this is funny to me because so her and I are always opposite of each other.

In what way?

So if I come in and I'm pumped for the day, I'm ready to go. Tiffany's usually coming in like, hey, how's it going? Like, not her usual self. And if I come in, I'm like, I'm having a rough day. Tiffany comes in bouncing off the walls. So I know who's gonna have what kind of day, by the way. I wake up and then that's kind of how we tackle that rest of that meeting.

Interesting.

The other thing that is really helpful for us is we have strengths in the place that the other one doesn't, which I realize is part of the VI duo there. But I can start a project really well, but I lose team afterwards. And it's the same thing with being on the same page of things. I can bring up issues really well, but having the endurance to talk through and solve them is sometimes where I lose focus. And so we do complete those very well for each other.

So talk to me about in the notes when April talked to you guys ahead of time, she's mentioned the term boulders that Tiffany creates boulders, and Aubrey figures out how to break them down. And tell me about that language.

Yes, that's an interesting one. I truly believe in making sure when you're in leadership that your mental health is also in a really great space and especially when you're leading many people. It's a very important thing. So I saw a counselor for many years and even a counselor to help me transition into being this business. And so one of the concepts that he brought up was this idea of when in marriage counseling, when one spouse cheats, sometimes the other one has to go around this rock that's in the middle of field. And it feels like they're just going around and around, questioning and questioning and questioning. What they're really trying to do is see how deep and how wide and how overwhelming this boulder is in the middle of the field that they're going to have to pick up and move. And so what we've discovered is Aubrey is a question asker, man. She wants to know exactly how wide and how deep and how heavy that boulder is that I have identified in the field. And so this idea of boulders is not necessarily the component of rock. The biggest stuff first, making sure that whatever this thing is that we found, this vision, this project for the next 90 days, this thing that's going to move our company forward is all the way around worked out before we start tackling it.

So, Aubrey, what are you doing when you're processing in that fashion? How are you, you know, she lays out, you know, she's doing her verbal thing and she's got all kinds of stuff flying around. And you finally help her, you know, rein it into this thing and then you start to make your way around it. What are you doing? What's going on in your brain?

Yeah, so what's going on in my brain is. I'm like, is, first of all, is this a good idea? Is this a good boulder? And to figure that out, we have to kind of look here and there and see, you know, how is this going to work? How can we implement it? Is this going to be good for the business in the long run? And so I'm just. I'm just trying to figure out, making sure that we're going to tackle this thing the right way, if we should be tackling it at all.

So what happens when you make your lap around the boulder and you're like, this is nuts. We shouldn't do this, and then you tell Tiffany just like that, or how do you tell her?

You know, it's funny because I probably take a few minutes of me sitting there staring at her, and she's like, you don't like this? And I'm like, no.

So when you hear that, Tiffany, how do you feel?

Well, I have come to terms with the fact that not every idea I have is a good idea. It's tough, but I have accepted this.

A lot of them are good, though.

A lot of them are good. Some of them will take you to the moon. Some of them will put you out of business.

You have been so good at figuring out which ones we need to go after. I've had some real failure of ideas, and I'm glad we're not going through that anymore.

What's your kind of litmus test, Aubrey, for how you tell how you size up if this one's a good fit or if it's not?

Honestly, looking at our core focus and our core values, seeing if they align. The hedgehog concept. I remember reading about our little hedgehog concept, and I was like, this is really going to help me understand. So, yeah, I just kind of take a couple of those practices and tests that we've come along the way and integrated in there.

Very cool. So what would you say now that you've been doing this for a while? You know, you've got. Aubrey, from your perspective, you've got some integrators out there that, you know, they're trying to figure it out. What would you say to them is a really good thing to focus on that you've learned that's just sort of a truth you think would apply to any integrator that's trying to be successful in the relationship they have with their visionary?

I think I'm going to go back to saying, just be very open and honest. Tiffany and I have had a super open and honest relationship this whole time. I feel like I can tell her anything, and I think she feels the same way. And I think that has been really, really helpful in helping us create and move forward in this business in the best way possible.

What does Tiffany do that makes you feel that way? What does Tiffany do that makes you feel like you really can be open and honest with her?

Tiffany has always reassured me, probably almost every day we're together in either her actions and words, that I can be open and honest with her, that my opinions actually matter, which is something that I did not have in previous positions and previous jobs. She listens to me. And actually, I can tell she listens because she takes the things that I say and actually implements them and helps motivate me inside and outside of the workplace.

Very cool. So, Tiffany, same question for you. Other visionaries out there trying to figure out how to make it work with their integrator, they're sometimes frustrated and all the things that go with that. What have you learned that you think is just sort of a core truth to make the relationship great?

Yeah. I think that as a visionary, it's very easy to drive to do something alone, But I have very rarely been successful doing it alone. So as soon as I realized that I was the bottleneck to my own success and that bringing an integrator in and actually listening to what they say, it changed everything. I go so much further because I have Aubrey. I'm so glad for our open and honest communication, because that is what moves us forward.

Very cool. All right, so I have another note here that, Tiffany, you consider yourself a library tourist.

I am a library.

What does that even mean?

I, since childhood, have gone to libraries first because there was nothing else to do. And just whenever I travel to different cities, there's so much to be said about a city from its library. The design of the library, It's a public entity. Right. Anybody can go in or out of it. And so if you want to experience a space city, go to their public library. We have over 17 branches here, and I've been to every single one of our local branches.

That's very cool. What's your favorite?

My favorite one is the downtown Grand Rapids library, which you would think that's your own city. Why would you say that? It's beautiful. It's absolutely stunning. They've got different sections. They're also very happy to help you. And there's a diversity of people that just hang out there during the day, too.

That's pretty cool. Do you know who Dan Pink is? You ever heard of a guy named Dan Pink?

I sure.

Have. You ever seen his pink cast?

No, I have not.

It's his little podcast, it's usually, you know, like 90 seconds long. And he recently, he was. He did one where it was the five things you should do anytime you're in a different city. And one of them was like, go to the highest point in the city. One was. One was go to the grocery store, one was get a local paper. And I'm going to draw a blank on the last two. But go to the local library, I think would be a nice add to that list.

I agree.

That's a very cool one. So what kind of hobbies do you have, Aubrey? What's your favorite thing to do when you're not being an integrator?

I would say exploring everywhere with my husband. We love camping. We love any type of motorized vehicle you will catch us riding anytime.

That seems like a long list.

Well, anytime. But he has a shed full that we really. We enjoy just taken out on trails or exploring our neighborhood, nature, Grand Rapids, everything cool.

Tiffany, what about for you, other than going to a library?

So that's our every Saturday morning activity, but other than that, hiking with my family, I really do enjoy getting out and exploring. The All Trails app will let you see anywhere that you're at really great rated trails.

I've used that one. So part of the reason I'm asking that is for visionaries, I like to hear how they connect the purpose that they have personally and what they're trying to achieve and do personally and what their life's all about with the business and kind of how that business connects with and serves whatever your why is as a. As an individual. So have you thought about how those two connect up, Tiffany, for you, for.

The activities outside of real estate?

Yeah. I mean, really, you know, just kind of what's your. If you imagine a vto, there's a personal vto. But if you imagine a VTO for just you, how the VTO for your company dovetails with it aligns with, you know, the plan that you have for you and your family.

Yeah, I really think that exploring nature and knowledge are both really big priorities for us and then sharing it out with the world. I do share a lot of my stuff on that AllTrails app, as well as book reviews. I love book reviews, so I would say there's a connection there with exploring and sharing the things that I learn and see.

Very cool. Aubrey, have you thought about the same thing? Just kind of how your life plan fits with the business?

Yeah. So it's funny because we started this whole thing in a real estate company and I just didn't really have anything going on there. And then when Tiffany invited me to be a part of this company that now shouts out all the cool local stuff, I'm like, this is exactly what's for me. We love exploring our city. We love checking out new eateries and new coffee shops and having fun on social media, being creative. And so, yeah, my personal life ties in so much to this position and it's, yeah, it's been a blast.

I love how your, you know, your individual passions seem to really align nicely with, you know, the passion that you've got for your business. And what a great combination of helping people, you know, solve their real estate, real estate stuff, which is sort of a traditional thing that, you know, everybody, everybody does. But being able to wrap something that's super valuable and helpful to people, particularly that, you know, maybe have just moved from Miami or somewhere far away, and it's a whole, you know, scary, scary new place for them. Right? That's a very, very cool thing. Well, I appreciate you taking some time to share, you know, your experience, your story with our audience today. I know that they're going to hear some things and take some little lessons that are going to help them along their journey, wherever they may be along that path. If somebody wants to find out more about your business or either one of you, what's the best way to find you?

I would say on social we're HeartGR and really, I think on all the platforms, we're HeartGR.

That keeps it simple. Well, again, I'm very grateful for you taking some time to spend with me today. It's super, super fun to get to meet both of you. For our listeners, thanks for listening. Thanks for being here with us for this episode and until next time, go Rocket. Thank you for listening today. I really hope this episode inspired you to bring rocket fuel to your business. If you're interested in learning more about the free community for visionaries, integrators and the people who support them, please visit rocketfueluniversity.com. You cannot build a great business on multiple operating systems. You must choose one. EOS1 is the simple to use software exclusively from the makers of EOS. By bringing everything EOS into one place, EOS1 allows you to run better meetings, access the foundational tools faster, and build a More accountable team. One vision, one system, one team. Start your 30 day free trial of EOS1 today at eos1.com.