Building a Thriving Company Culture: The Power of the Visionary-Integrator™ Partnership | Carolyn Nolan and Jeana-Rae Kendall

I'm the person that likes to hear what would be cool. And then most people say it and then they take it back, but that's not possible. But I don't deserve that. But I don't. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Stick with that. Let's talk more about that. So I like to hear other people's things and hang out with people that are encouraging like that. Because it's not about it being like the goal. It's more of just it being something that doesn't exist that we can create. And isn't it fun when you get together with people that are into that? And so even if you fail, like, you don't fail, you're like, oh my God, we learned so much and we created this thing and. And if you're with the right people, it's fun all along.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Rocket Fuel podcast where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create Rocket Fuel. I'm your host, Mark C. Winners, co author of Rocket Fuel and an expert EOS implementer. Today I'm excited to welcome Carolyn Nolan, CEO and Jenna Rae Kendall, COO from the Nolan Group. This highly recognized women led team is focused on helping people be strategic in life through unique financial Solutions. Founded in 2004, the Nolan Group was recently named as one of Forbes Best in State Wealth Management teams and Forbes Best in State Women wealth advisors in 2023. In this episode, we explore building a culture of accountability and then ways in which having the right visionary integrated relations impact company culture. Carolyn and Jenna Rae talk about using core values in the interview process and how the visionary and integrator roles balance each other out as the business and vision grow. We're starting the show with Carolyn describing the struggle she faced early on when wearing both the visionary and integrator hat as Helter Skelter.

Here we go.

It was awful. There were at least three, if not four consecutive quarters. I was at my strategic coach meeting with my group up in Toronto. DAN Sullivan, STRATEGIC COACH all my peers, colleagues there are like, you need an integrator? And I'm like, what industry pre Os? Like what is an integrator and why do I need one? And it's like just everything. Like, we have to do this and how do I filter my ideas and how do I make sense to people? And I manifested, J.R. you manifested? Yes.

So tell all the visionaries that are out there feeling exactly the way that you Are feeling. How do you manifest a wonderful integrator?

You tell the universe, I'm so screwed. Please send me someone that will make this chill and calm. And no. J.R. and I. J.R. you want to tell how we met? It was so random.

It's kind of wild. I also didn't know what an integrator was, but I was at a point in my life where I ended up leaving my job at Corporate America, and I was looking for more of a reset in my career and knew what I was looking for. Something that was much more focused on being able to bring projects to life, being able to have more independence, autonomy, and be able to really see things kind of come together. And so I was connected to one of our advisors through a couple of people I had just met who ended up living in New Hampshire. She turned out to be one of Carolyn's advisors that works on our team. She's been with Carolyn for quite a while, and she was like, well, why don't you just talk to Carolyn? Talked to her for maybe 30 minutes on the phone. She's like, I think you should just meet Carolyn. So got on the phone with Carolyn, and Karen was like, well, what do you want? I was like, explain to her what I was looking for. And she was like, oh, she's the integrator. And I was like. I was like, I don't even know what that means. But I was like, okay. Turned out to be this long. Three to four months of just kind of dating and getting to know each other remotely.

Online dating. JR Was traveling across the country at the time, and I was like, okay.

Yeah, online dating between the visionary and the candidate.

And it, like, I wasn't planning on interviewing. I think we're just shooting the breeze, like, just meeting people, which is so fun.

That's what I thought.

Yeah. And it's still virtual, which is normal for us anyway, but in Covid, it's really normal. But then we're on the phone. I'm like, oh, my God, you're the integrator. I'm not trying to freak you out. I'm not trying to sell you on something.

Oh, my God, I'm trying to freak you.

And I was like, well, my house is currently half packed. Why don't we just keep talking, see where we go?

Yeah.

So how did the online dating over that period of time, how did that all come together and wrap up and become really, really real?

So I kept sending JR Books, like, she just loves reading, and she was just asking for recommendations, and I'd give her, like, Four. Four books. And in four days she had read them all. I mean, mind you, she was traveling across the country, so there was a lot of listening happening.

I had a lot of time.

But she was like listening, reading and loving them and was like, oh, my God, give me another one. So I was like, this chick is digging the stuff that I dig. Like, that's cool. And then I'm like sharing just different materials and seeing if I overwhelm her. Like, not on purpose, but I'm like, I need to make sure you understand how I work, because we're going to work really closely if this even continues. And she just kept digging it and was like, I have questions. This is cool. And it wasn't an interview. It just always was a conversation, like, as though we always knew each other. It was really cool. So it still kind of like freaks me out when I think about it.

Yeah, yeah, it's super fun. When it started to kind of come to an end, I was getting to the end of my, like three, four months of travel and we had left our dog at my in laws place down in South Carolina, which happened to be two hours from where Carolyn was spending the summer at her place down there. So if we're gonna do this, like, I have to meet you in person. So I asked her if she'd be open to coming down. She was. She had had me down. We kind of toured the island and just talked and learned more about the Nolan group as a business and what they do. And just seeing how her being able to paint that vision was really cool and very inspiring. And I was like, oh, yeah, we can work together.

My husband was there because my husband was like, he's like my sniffer. Like, I fall in love with people really fast, so I'm bad at making decisions, which is why we now it's like I fall in love with people and then I'm like, here, J.R. you talk to them. Because I don't know if this is legit or I'm just being emotional. So Tim was my sniffer for JR and he was like, I like her. She asked good questions. She's good. And I was like, I know. And I'm so relieved because I was already in love with her.

So this sounds like this classic love story, right? Where it's kind of love at first sight when you get all excited and there's like this honeymoon. And so is it that way all the time or is there conflict here? And if there's conflict, how do you deal with that? How do you work through that we've.

Had issues, but nothing we haven't gotten through. And all joking aside, like, no, you didn't pay me to say it, Mark. It's because we run on eos, and we're really good at IDs ing. One of our core values in our company is open, honest conversations. But another core value is golden rule. So just like with the Nolan group, we only work with nice people. We only hire and work with nice people in our company. So it's like, I love that.

I love that, by the way, issues.

Not with people. It's issues are just issues. And we're holding hands, working through this thing that we're beaten up on the ground to get together. So JR came on board the same week that we bought the first practice that I bought. So I was like, never mind that. I don't know what I'm doing. You don't even know how to turn on the system, but figure it out, because I don't know what we're doing here. So there was, like, things that got messed up there, but I'm like, I expect that. And J.R. was awesome at from the get go, Never hiding anything or brushing something under the rug or. She was always just, like, really transparent. So it's like, I can handle anything as long as I know what I'm dealing with. So we haven't had issues.

And I think that the biggest piece that allows us to do that is one, that alignment around the core values. But also, Carolyn alluded to this. It's knowing that if there's something that's happening that's wrong, it's typically because there's a lack of communication and clarity around what it is we're trying to even accomplish. Two, a lack of a process to define how to do something, so you're figuring things out as you go. And three, just knowing and being open to that feedback from each other. And that's something that I think Carolyn does really well, is she's always listens like she'll have a million ideas, and it's like, okay, let's start here. Let's think about this, this, and this. And she's always receptive and very listens. And I think that that's what makes it work really well. And I think if you don't have those pieces, that's where you get a lot of conflict. And conflict's not bad. No, but unhealthy conflict is. And so that's something that we are fortunate that we haven't had.

Well, and for me, I needed someone that could Actually challenge me, like not so much challenge my thinking, but like not be afraid to come right head to head with me and be like, I totally disagree, but not in like an abrasive way. So Junior has like an awesome temperament, like, like old soul temperament of just wisdom. And. And I'm like the, like, like just go blow things up and JR will be like, you can't do that. I'm like, right, I can't do that.

Because we want to get to the one year vision, we want to get to the long term vision, and it comes back to that.

So, Gina, Ray, talk to me about that from your perspective. So I can tell Carolyn is like this big visionary with ideas and energy and all that kind of stuff. So we talked about how you can't have an integrator that she's just going to mow right over and bulldoze. Right? So you got to be strong. So how do you take all of these ideas and kind of filter them down to a way where it's the stuff that is real that should be on the radar without Carolyn feeling like she's not listening to me or we're losing this great idea or all those kinds of things? I hear visionaries say, yeah, what's your process for that?

So I think that the EOS structure in and of itself, that gives you those regular cadence of resetting your vision, your 10 year targets, your three and your one really helps us and. And it allows us to kind of have that guiding principle where, okay, what is it that we're trying to accomplish? And is this actually an issue that is on fire that we actually need to solve? Because it's going to inhibit us from getting to our 1 or 3 or 10. And sometimes Carolyn's like, yes, this is on fire and we need to pivot and do this now. And as long as we're looking at it together, using that clear vision of where we're going, we're able to kind of navigate that pretty seamlessly. But it's having the time set aside where we can make sure that we're both really on the same page with what that is. And I'm able to ask those questions and pull out all of those juicy ideas from Carolyn's brain that allows me to be clear whenever we go into executing, because the last thing we wanted to do is start executing the wrong way. And Karen's like, well, I actually saw it in this way. So really spending that time up front to get clear on that.

So tell me more about that. So how do you protect that Time. Create that time and get the most out of that time to achieve that clarity, that alignment.

So we have our. Once a month, we meet for like a four hour business planning session with Jen and then her business partner, Jen, who's also on our leadership team as well. And we sit down and we just get really clear on the big things that are happening in the business and how we can continue to navigate and move things forward. And then we really love using different tools, such as the Impact filter has been one of our greatest tools for Carolyn to be able to get clear and she'll be able to talk more about that. And that's been a great.

Yes. Strategic coach tool.

Yeah. Because otherwise I just talk like real high level, and people are like, what are you saying? And I'm like, I don't know. So now, like, Junior or someone else will do an Impact filter with me because, like, me just doing it myself is like a good starting point, but it's not an end point because it's still like in the clouds. So they're like, what do you mean? What does that mean? Does that mean this? I'm like, yeah, yeah, that. And they're like, can we write that? I'm like, yeah, that's fine. So we use that because it's kind of like when people are fighting about something specific, when the issue isn't that thing, it's like something deeper. So oftentimes the Impact filter on the high level is either way too high level or way too specific. And we have to get to what's, like, the theme of what we're trying to do here. And it just comes with tons of practice. And on my own, I just don't move things forward. So sometimes JR will be like, we'll have a meeting and it's an accountability meeting. And it's just Carolyn's gonna do her thing and JR's on mute and I'm on mute, and she's like, are you doing your thing still? You doing it? Because I'm like, otherwise, like, I'm here, I'm there.

Your mind has a mind of its own, right?

Yeah.

A visionary mind.

The big way that I found. And it took me almost a year of organizing into the L10 structure. Like, I have an L10 for me and my husband.

Okay.

We don't call it an L10, but it's an L10. And we meet weekly and we go over our stuff. He doesn't even look at the list. But that's where I take the things from my brain and I park them or when he gives me an idea, I put it there. I use Monday.com for a lot of stuff. I find that's a really great tool and it's easy to move things around. I have like, a list, or Maybe not an L10, but I have a list for. For all the properties we have and different ideas. And I make them short and long term. I have my personal list of things in life that I'm to do. I make it short and long term. I have my own business ideas that I haven't shared with the team yet because I haven't decided they should go on our thing that they should see. It's just to get it out of my brain. But I have a ton of them. And it sounds crazy on the surface, but it's the only way I get it out of my head and into the right place. And now there's a cadence. As long as I follow my stupid calendar. The calendar is the tool by which we get all the stuff done with such ease and grace. If you just follow the stupid calendar.

Sounds simple.

It's so simple. But, yeah, it's super hard to do. Like, yeah, but that's how we run our whole life.

And I think once our. The ideas are clear for Carolyn, yeah, she's not as much about. She doesn't care how. She's like, this is just the what? And I'm like, okay, great. Like, then we can move forward. And she's great about giving that autonomy to me and the team and knowing where she really excels is not in that space. And I don't excel in the idea piece at all. I'm like, great, please come up with something, and we'll move this forward and we'll keep moving in the right direction.

So. Interesting question on that. Just something I see is some people think the integrator role, they don't have ideas. They don't whatever. And in my experience, when I talk to integrators, it's like they love to get fed the idea. Right. The joy for them is making it real, making it happen. Right. The joy for them isn't coming up with the idea, it's going and executing. Right. So that's what makes the match. That's your. That's how it sounds like you're wired.

Absolutely.

Yeah. And I mean, prior to jr, our entire business, because I had to, I would just get it done. But it's like, just because you can doesn't mean you should. And at this point, it's like it's becoming aware of how much it's draining me and prohibiting my creativity and, like, coming up with new stuff. Because it was, like, even as a financial advisor, and only in the last year, I stopped working with clients and it was a wholesaler maybe 10 years ago, that was like, oh, so you're an entrepreneur that just so happens to be a financial advisor? And I was like, oh, my God, I feel seen. And it was the first time, like, I understood that myself, too. Like, I just happened to be a financial advisor. And so it wasn't until we, like, integrated and implemented all the stuff that I could see the ability for me to be free, to not be an advisor. Not because it's a bad gig, but it's not my unique ability, right? But my unique ability is creating new shit and being a visionary and, like, bringing, like, energy and culture to this whole thing and beyond. And I couldn't when all of my time and time blocks were to seeing clients who I flipping love.

Right?

It's not like, because we only work with nice people and people that we want to hug. That's our minimum. We have to want to hug you. We're like, what if I don't hug? I'm like, you don't have to hug. I have to want to hug you.

That's so cool. So I love that. Okay, so, Carolyn, a lot of visionaries tell me about this feeling of almost being put out to pasture when they bring in a great integrator and the integrator starts taking all this stuff and things start happening. They go through this transitional period where they're kind of like, well, wait a minute. What about me? What do I do now? Did you experience that? What was that like for you?

I'm still in it.

Okay, tell us about it. Tell us about it.

We put her in a visionary. We sent her on a visionary retreat this summer. That's what we. That's what we're calling.

Yeah, we keep, like, half joking. I'm like, well, I'm no longer essential. Okay. And it's like a really weird paradigm shift. It's kind of like along the same lines of tell the universe what you want. And then when you get it, you're like, oh, I don't know if I want this. But, like, I actually do. I'm just. I almost don't feel like deserving. And it. It feels a little imposter syndromey. Because when you're operating in what Dan Sullivan calls your unique ability, like, it's so effortless, it feels like fun and play, that you're like, oh, my God. Am I. Am I, like, fooling everyone? So it's a really big continual paradigm shift to figure out. And J.R. and I literally, like, this week are going back into what are my new focus activities? What are my new buffer activities now that I can maniacally do this in our company? Like, what am I accountable to? Like, when I was still in the advice and toggling between the two? Like, that's really confusing. But it's necessary for a period of time that you wear multiple hats. And it's not, like, over. It's going to keep happening as I create new stuff. Like, we're creating a new company right now because things were calm. So let's create a. It's like, let's either create a company, have a baby, or buy a property that we can't afford.

Oh, my.

That's what I do. I create chaos. It's so fun.

So, Carolyn, you've talked about Strategic Coach. So you do that to kind of continue to develop yourself. Is there anything else that you do to continue to develop yourself as a visionary, to grow fully into that role and be the best you can be at it?

I mean, it's just like, whether it's people that you hang out with? So the biggest thing I love about Strategic Coach is the community of thinkers and people. And you feel less lonely when you're there and you don't feel so crazy. I'm like, oh, I'm calm compared to some of these people. But it's also like, what you read, what you're watching. If you look on my Instagram account, it's all inspirational, motivational ideating. If you look at all the books on my bookshelf, like, they're not self help. They're more visionary oriented. What could be. Like, I'm the person that likes to hear what would be cool. And then most people say it and then they take it back, but that's not possible. But I don't deserve that. But I don't. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Stick with that. Let's talk more about that. So I like to hear other people's things and hang out with people that are encouraging like that. Because it's not about it being, like, the goal. It's more of just it being something that doesn't exist that we can create. And isn't it fun when you get together with people that are into that? So even if you fail, like, you don't fail. You're like, oh, my God, we learned so much and we created this thing and and if you're with the right people, it's fun all along.

100%. Love that. Agree with every bit of it. So, Gina, Ray, what about you as an integrator? What do you do to continue to master your craft and become the best integrator that you can be?

Honestly, I love feedback from the team. I think that that's the number one thing that helps develop and helps me develop. I also just devour books similar to Carolyn. So when she gets a good book and she reads a lot, she'll be like, you need this. You read this. I'm like, great. Which is also a great way of us aligning and our thinking and our thought process so we can continue to move a lot of these ideas forward. So that's something I'm also in Strategic Coach as well on their team leader series, which I love. And it gives me a chance to get zoomed back out because I find myself in this in the business, but then also bridging to that more zoomed out picture. So it gives me that chance to kind of zoom back out and learn from others in a way that I don't necessarily get exposed to daily, weekly, and then other things is I had an opportunity to take and audit some classes while my husband was in business school. So that's another way just finding different ways you can continue to improve yourself. It's all a lifelong journey and a growth journey.

The journey to mastery never ends, right? You gotta keep working on it.

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So individually, you continue to work to get as good as all you can be in your individual role. What about the relationship? What kind of things do you do with intention to continue to make that visionary and integrated relationship as strong and as powerful as it can be?

I think that that comes back to Carolyn and I meet weekly. We have our big once a month meeting, but we meet weekly and we always kind of start with just like, what's going on in your life? Let's know each other and get to know each other personally. Like I had. I'm in the process of moving, I told you this, back to Denver. Colorado and moving can be challenging. Not the most fun experience. So Carolyn sent me a text, just checking in. It's those little things, I think working at any relationship in life. It's constant small actions that know that show you care or that you understand them as a person. Because if you understand them as a person, that's going to translate really well into the business world as well. So Carolyn's. That's a unique ability for her, for sure.

Carolyn, from your perspective, how do you make this relationship strong?

Yeah, it's just genuine care and curiosity about people and what they have going on and making a point to prioritize it. And I think so. Even like talking about, like L10s being a thing you do at home and people are kind of like, oh, you like, bring that home. And it's like, well, I do that because I care. I do that because I'm looking to make a point. To say I'm prioritizing it like all these systems is to ensure as much as I can control that I'm not going to drop the ball on things and people that I care about. So even systems like a thing that I refuse to never not do is buy people personal birthday presents. So when there's a hundred people, you're going to buy everyone a birthday present. I'm like, you fucking better believe I'm going to buy a birthday present for you. Because that's like, I see you, I picked this out for you and like writing a personal card, but that's something. But again, it feels imposter syndrome because that's just something I love to do.

Right.

But it's like, it's such a win win because it makes the other person feel seen too. Does that mean it's like utopian all the time? Like, no, but generally, yeah, it kind of is if you're honest about do I like this person? Like, you spend more time with your colleagues than you do your family in some respects. Like, awake.

Anyway, so I love. You're only working with nice people that you want to hug.

Yep.

I love your doing things that you care about, you know, because you care about the other person. I know that fun is also really integral to your company and getting things done while having fun. I think our producer April shared with me as a quote, so talk about that. So when did that become obvious to you that you wanted that to be an integral part of your business?

I mean, it never wasn't. We only articulated it when we did our EOS implementation process, and that's when we came up with all the unique naming, which obviously is stupidly powerful. And jr, it will be on our next quarter. Rocks of unique naming. Everything. I'm already sold. So actually, what's really cool, by the way of I go off and individually have my strategic coach meetings, which are for me, but it's not just for me. It's how I can come prepared to our quarterly already like, having marinated in some ideas. So, like, they're better meetings because things that I'm sold on personally, I can directly and the team trusts that they're not just, oh, how you feel today. It's like, I've been thinking about this for three weeks and I'm more clear than ever. This is a thing this quarter. And now that we've had practice with that. But yeah, for nice people, like, that became one of our things. We were like, oh, how do you say, I want to give you a hug? It's like, they're just nice. And we're like, is that obnoxious to say? And we're like, no. And it's the most honest thing we can say. But we've always, like, part of our style is just for me personally, has always been being more casual or not always, but once I became more just authentically me and dropped the suits and started just speaking how I would normally speak, it's just so much more natural because it is and authentic and genuine with clients and with everyone. Just be yourself.

Was that scary? Was making that kind of a change in your business, in your world, you know? Was that scary?

In my world, yeah. I mean, we're financial services. Like, I was wearing suits and then there was some point and I was young, I was 22 when I started, and it was probably like two or three years in and I just kind of dropped the suits and was just still wearing way fancier shit than I would wear now. But my client, like, stopped me randomly one meeting and was like, can I just tell you, you look so much more comfortable. And I was like, thank you for saying that. So again, it was a lot of feedback, unsolicited. And again, being a coach and these people that I don't know, and they're people that offer their genuine reflections without asking for it. And it's people that don't otherwise know you or have some ultimatum of why they're going to say something. And that's been like, really neat. So, like, pay attention when you start to hear, like, different people in different parts of your life telling you the same thing, good or bad, by the way. So having fun has always been a thing for me since I was a little kid. One of my unique abilities is about, like, you don't have to be stuffy to be serious. We can still get really important, impactful work done and not be total stiffs and, like, suits and shirts don't smile like. And most of those people are miserable.

Which isn't on the list. Being miserable is not on the list. So, Gina, Ray, for you coming into this company with that culture, I mean, was that a big change? Was that. Was that different? Was that, like, wow, that's cool. What was your impression?

It was definitely different, but really refreshing. So, as I mentioned, I worked at a large brokerage firm prior to joining the Nolan Group, and it was the business casual, the little stiffer. But now being in the entrepreneurial setting, I was like, man, why don't I find this sooner? This is so much more fun. And oftentimes, it doesn't even feel like work when you're going in. You're getting to show up authentically as yourself each and every day. It just impacts your personal life, too, in a positive way. So that was very refreshing recently. This is just an example of how we have fun, but we get things, Big ideas and big things done. I was down in Boston at our office with Carolyn, and we set aside a whole afternoon to completely rethink our accountability chart within our team. We got down, and we locked ourselves in this, like, conference room with a whiteboard, and Carolyn just goes out there and just draws a big circle on the board. And she goes, this is it. And I was like, all right, let's go. So we spent the next hour and a half just whiteboard and markers in hand, just like, saying, oh, this would be awesome if we could do this, and then we could do this. And it's like, well, how would that impact over here? And just kind of getting into the brainstorming, just creating together, but both leveraging our own strengths to do so. So that's just. It's just super fun. Then you get to bring it all to life, which is even more fun.

Isn't that fun just being in front of a whiteboard and just kind of coming up with stuff and figuring it out in real time and just being able to play off of each other and together well.

And that's what's cool, is JR lets me play without stopping me. Like, a lot of people, and they don't do it in a bad way, but they'll be like, that's impossible. That's ridiculous. And I'm like, can you just let me play with this because I'm not selling it. I'm just testing. And I want to hear out loud what it sounds like and hear myself say it and say, do I believe that or does it not sit right? And J.R. lets me play. And we'll kind of be like, why don't you try going just this way a little or this way? And I'm like, oh, yeah. And there's like a mutual trust and respect there. But then we do play. It will be like we come upstairs and we're just shooting the breeze with everyone. Or let's go down the street or let's go to my house. We have cornhole. And like, we're a family. More than family. We're a community. We choose to be with you. Like family that chooses each other. So the tricky thing that comes with our culture is it's not for everybody. Even if they want it, some people just can't. They don't get it or they can't. It's not an entitlement, right? It's not a benefit or a perk. It's, like, only for people that are, like, not just nice, but they're grown ups and, like, they get it. We're here to achieve things and do things, but here's the culture by which we do it. But that doesn't discount that. Like, you have to have a high standard of work and you have to show up and you have to do what you say you're going to do. But, like, we kind of expect a precursor to all the cool stuff we talk about is like, that's like a given. You can't, like, not do that part. But some people don't get that. They just are like, oh, my God, unlimited free days. But it's got to fit.

It's not for everybody. So. So, Gina Rae, maybe you can talk about how it shows up in the recruiting dynamic, right? So, because a lot of things sound good, people show up, other people don't get it, aren't made for it. How does that as you're trying to add new talent to the team.

Oh, this is a fun question. We actually just spent a good chunk of the quarter working on recruiting and building out our bench and kind of redefining how we can properly filter that. Right? Because we do have a culture we love to protect, and that is very special. Carolyn, you haven't seen this yet, but I completely revamped the entire interview guide and actually now have all the questions that you sent me from different sources and all those different Places. But I categorize it in a way that it aligns under each core value. So when you're going through interviewing, you ask a question or a couple questions in each value, and you rate them based on how they answer the question, plus, minus, plus, minus. So you can specifically see if there are any holes within how they line up against our values. But also you're learning about their skills and what they can bring to the team as well. So we've kind of created this system for being able to try to see as much as you can through that. So that's kind of how we've structured it with our team.

I love that. Do you find that, again, people appreciate your culture so much? The people that work there, it's sort of a recruiting force for you, Right? Because they're talking to people about how much they love their company, how much they love being part of the community. Carolyn, as you called it. Right. And so again, it's becoming this people magnet. It's a place that people are drawn to that resonate with the signal you're putting out in the universe. Right.

We actually had someone that quit before they started because she was so intimidated, like almost just like in disbelief that this even existed. Which was kind of interesting that it's like almost too good to be true. But I think that's where I like that, because it really genuinely should attract the crap out of the right people like JR who are just like, oh my God, I didn't even know this was possible and should repel the wrong people, not just people that are anti the values. But accountability, like living in a culture of accountability is not where most people, I would argue to say most people can't live. Or like, even pre Covid, we were doing a lot of remote work or hybrid or so that was normal for us. And we had a good amount of people that were working in another state. But like we've always said, like, before COVID like, work from home is not a benefit. It just makes sense for some people and for others it doesn't. So there was one team member that's not with us anymore. And in Covid, they wanted to be home and they were in a family that, like, it wasn't a great dynamic. And the person was miserable all the time when they were at home. And it was like, well, I can work from home. And like, you could, but you're miserable because you family, it's not a happy place. And it was like, so I need you here. And it was like, well, I deserve to work from Home. And I'm like, oh, you're missing the point. You don't get it. Like some people just don't get it. And it's okay. What's hard Mark, is when you see how someone could and you like almost want it for them more than not even more than they want it, but you're like, they're just not going to friggin get it. So that's been a really impactful. I think that's the most challenging eos. But impactful eos, like qualifier with the people analyzer thing. Like the values, like we're pretty good at like we can kind of filter and most people that come to us are by way of referral in some way. Even pre EOs like all of our. Everyone has a story that's so funny and random of how we got together, almost everybody. And then. But it's the get it that sometimes and you try to help someone get it and they just can't, they just can't get it. So you're like, I just gotta let you go. It's the most awkward, awful, but it happens. It's generally not the value get it part. And that's when it gets really hard.

I see that. So let me ask you this. So we've been doing this for a while now. So you've been doing the visionary integrator thing for a while now. So now you reflect back on your journey and we got lots of people listening that they're either a visionary themselves or an integrator themselves or they're really interested in visionaries and integrators and trying to understand it. And so as you think about them listening and look back over your own experience, what's the thing that you wish somebody had told you way back when that would have helped you get there quicker, get there with a little bit less pain. What's your nugget of wisdom that you'd like to share with our listeners?

So what I never have really liked, it's still hard for me is thinking about the 10 year vision, the 20 year vision of the business. What I think is more obvious if you focus on it sooner is just what has always been true to you as a person that lights you up and makes you feel alive. And I think if you can lead with that as like your lane of where you're trying to get to and then you try to genuinely understand other people's lanes, you can start to see how you can create this masterful highway together. When you start to connect with the right people and then you can start to better. Like, it's easier for me now with the team in place to be more open to what the company could be, because I don't have to imagine me being the who that's doing all of this stuff.

Big leap.

So knowing yourself and your. You know what I would love to do, because I'm really good at it. Not that I'm entitled to it, not that I'm deserving or not deserving, but just it would be cool. Like, the more you can clarify the things that make you alive, I think that is like an incredibly impactful starting point in your entire life, never mind your business life.

100% agree with that. And you specifically mentioned thinking who. Right. And that's a big leap when you can make that shift. Because before that, it's like, man, I got a lot of stuff on my plate already. And here's another thing coming at me. I don't have any space for it. I don't even really want to talk about it.

Right.

And when you can get your plate clean enough that it's like, yep, I know I can talk about that. And if it comes to me, great, I'm going to dish it off to somebody else anyway. That's a game changer.

And sometimes it's a not yet. So, like, sometimes it's a long term issue, long term IDEA that, like, J.R. knows I have lots of them, and it's like, no, we can't do that yet. And I'm definitely not willing and no one else is willing to do it and shouldn't do it. So this is all the long term issues, like, that's it and when. Eventually there's. And that's what's motivating for our team has been. I've sold that idea forever of just like, let's get more clear of what you want and what, like, makes you alive. And that doesn't mean you're entitled to it. You're still gonna have to wear multiple hats at different times, just like I do. And. But the more business we're producing, the more ability we have to hire more people that do the stuff you don't want to do, but we have to grow in order to do that. So it also aligns everyone. But if you're not looking to grow, like, we know that, but the team doesn't. So it's also to benefit, to help your team understand why it's to their benefit for the company to grow.

Yeah, that's the growth narrative. Perfect. So, Gina, Ray, I can only imagine that you tell Carolyn. Not yet a lot or fairly often, or it's yes, later. It's not no, it's yes, later. So back to my nugget question. You're talking to somebody who's an integrator or a visionary. Right. But just from your perspective, what's the thing that you wish somebody had told you? Maybe sooner that would be really helpful.

I think the biggest thing for me was learning that you really do speed up by slowing down. And although all these ideas sound awesome and can be overwhelming, at some point, just taking the time to slow down and digest it and understand it, understand where it's coming from so that you know where to fit it into that puzzle, that is your entire business. Right? So taking that time to slow down, collect it, and then you're like, okay, does this actually make sense? What was Carolyn thinking about that led her to this idea? Understanding that a little bit more. I'm a big context person. I need a little more details. Okay, I can see where that goes. Slow down, put it in the place long term, not right now. And just really spend the time and invest in the relationship up front so that as you continue to move forward, you just have the tools you need to be able to properly assess that.

Yeah, Love that. So I actually, back in the day when I used to try to do triathlons, I had a swim coach that said, slow is smooth, smooth is fast. And I see that in business, right? If we're herky jerky, if we're just all over the place doing this, we're not going fast. There's a lot of motion, but it's frenetic, it's not aligned, it's not smooth. So we can smooth that out, get it focused, and everything speeds up and goes. So I love that. A great one.

I'm a golfer. I mean, that's like how you get better. Like, sometimes you women play their best golf when they're pregnant because you have to slow down and you're like, oh, my gosh, I just out it drove myself and I'm barely swinging.

And it's like, oh, actually, when I watch women play golf, my game gets better because of the same thing. I see a slower tempo. It's just. It's different. And so it reminds me that, okay, wow, you can still slow it down, smooth it out, and get more of what you want. So very cool. Okay, so as we come to a close here, people are listening. They want to learn more about your business. They want to learn more about you. We'll put all the details in the show notes, but quickly if you would tell them how to find you, how to find your company.

So the easiest way for me to tell you is just to look up the Nolan Groove in Winchester. But it's going to be, it sounds like in the follow up sheet Mark will give you too. Just a little two pager on our team that really clarifies our values. That is a QR code that brings you to all the places, all the things.

You can also follow Carolyn on LinkedIn and she is constantly publishing awesome content around what we do and how we serve our clients and then our Facebook page as well, which is the Nolan Group.

All right, so Carolyn and Gina Rae, I thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to spend with us and our audience. So I'm grateful for that. And I'm sure our listeners picked up some nuggets there that hopefully can help them in their own journey get there a little bit more quickly, a little bit with a little bit less pain. So help them move forward in whatever path they're on. And to our listeners, I appreciate you being here. Thanks for listening. If you like this episode, if you like our podcast, it'd be great if you'd leave us a review and just that helps others find out about us. We're just trying to share with the world things that we've learned, things that we've experienced that are helpful to us. Hope you enjoyed the conversation with Carolyn and Gina Ray as much as I did. Now let's go to the rocket fuel toolbox. One of the things that you heard Carolyn talk about was how important it was for her to get really clear about the things that were important to her. And we talk about the core questions as one of our tools, which translates perfectly to the vision side of the vto. So to really begin to understand what's going to be important as a core value, what's going to be important as her core target? What business are we in and why are we in it? What's important to her about the future? Where are we going? That's your 10 year target. Your marketing strategy about who we really love as a target market. And then that three year picture that kind of brings that 10 year a little bit closer so we can begin to see it with more granularity and more texture becomes even more real. So a lot of times that's the.

Answer for the visionary is to do.

The work on yourself, to really understand yourself. That helps you understand the shape of your edge of that two piece puzzle.

And that helps you understand what you're.

Looking for out there in the world for your integrator counterpart. That helps you understand what you're looking for in your business that's going to make that whole thing come together and really do what we want it to do. So if you like that, if you want to learn more, please join us on rocketfueluniversity.com where you can take the.

Assessment and you can learn more about.

Other rocket fuel tools and join the community. Become a part of what we're doing with all those great visionaries and integrators. So until next time, go rocket.

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