Finding the “Perfect” Integrator™ | Christopher Turner & Tiffany Pearson

When you talk about the relationship between Tiffany and myself, she is clear with her expectations with me as well, very clear. And I like that as well. I understand not where the lines are exactly, but she's clear and that's helpful because the last thing you want is ambiguity. And what did you mean by that? All that stuff. And she's clear, which allows me to totally work within what she has said. Works for her and probably vice versa as well. But it makes a big, big difference. So the role of the integrator, you know, is not to be a pleaser or a yes person whatsoever. They have a big job and basically they're saying, I can run this organization, you know, effectively in the way that I say fit, but this is what I'm going to need from you. And sometimes those hard lines are really, really helpful.

Hey everybody and welcome to the Rocket Fuel podcast where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skill create Rocket Fuel. I'm your host, Mark C. Winters, co author of Rocket Fuel and an expert EOS implementer. Today I'm thrilled to be talking with Christopher Turner and Tiffany Pearson of Emergicon, providing better solutions for processing ambulance claims and supporting the firemen and EMS heroes by managing provider financial services. Christopher Turner is the founder and CEO of Emergicon. He's a true visionary when it comes to reducing the burden on life saving care and has over 25 years of experience in healthcare finance. Christopher founded Emergency Emergicon in 2006 with just a two person team and in 2019 Tiffany Pearson joined as the Chief Operating officer. She's an integrator with more than 20 years of experience in revenue cycle management and has improved both the revenue growth and leadership of Emergicon. In this episode, Christopher and Tiffany discuss balancing the roles of visionary and integrator in their partnership and the ways they communicate to run the business and their leadership team effectively. We're starting the show with Christopher sharing some of the initial struggles he faced finding the right integrator fit that allowed him to fully step into the visionary role. Here we go.

So in the beginning of course we didn't know what an integrator was. It was just grinding and trying to get the business up and running and doing kind of everything. I had one lady who was kind of the key to running the day to day office. I wouldn't consider her to be an integrator. It was somebody who was knowledgeable in our industry, in our field. And we really were just focused on getting business out the door. And I was focused on sales and finance and a lot of other things from there. As she retired, we looked to fill the integrator seat, and we had several false starts. So I looked for somebody from outside of our industry who just knew how to run a business. I looked for somebody be internal, who could promote up. It just. We couldn't seem to come up with the right combination. We had several failures. Very frustrating. I fell back into that seat myself, and I'm not an integrator in any shape or form. And then Tiffany was somebody who was working in the organization for not all that long, actually, and was being promoted up to the leadership team. And as she and I got to know each other, I mean, she really took the role. It really wasn't even a granted thing. She took it, and we both accepted.

Right. So I want to come back to Tiffany in a second, but back to that journey. Right. So you went through three other ones before Tiffany, and in that process, you tried hiring from outside. Correct. You tried promoting from within and sort of different things that were missing. Right. So pick one of the examples. And what was missing from those prior attempts to fill that seat successfully?

Really, what was missing was the full picture. Accountability. I think that's what it boils down to. So what I mean by that is each one of those people kind of took their chunk and basically said, this is my piece. You know, you've hired me or promoted me. I'll run with this. But you still do everything you're doing, which is not what an integrator is. So I still held sales. I still had finance. So it was a division of responsibilities, which was not what I was looking for.

All right, so, you know, somebody out there is listening to this, that's a visionary where you were, and they're trying to search for their integrator, and they're like, are you kidding me? This guy went through three or four before he actually got to the right one. How did he not give up? How did you not just throw your hands up there and go, this doesn't work?

One, I was committed. I was committed to the model. I was committed to how this should work. Two, I'm a terrible integrator. So even forced into that seat because there's nobody else to hold it, and you don't want to be in that seat for long if you're not an integrator, it's miserable for you. So, I mean, how long do you want to be the frog in the Pot before you want to jump out. So that's really the motivation.

Perfect. So, Tiffany, you're on the scene. First question I have for you is, all right, everybody who's gone into this role and tried to make it work so far has failed. So how do you feel about that as you're stepping into this role on the front end?

Well, the first thing I had to do was get clarity and expectations because for me, I don't like to fail. So I was like, hey. I asked him, I think it was like, four questions, and it took him two weeks to get back with me with those answers. So I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't one of the other four. I was like, I'm not going to be that person. I'm going to succeed. So just getting clarity with him at first.

So those questions. So were they, like, specific operational kind of things or were they more general kind of things? Can you share what any of those were?

Well, one of them was the one that probably stumped him the most was, how are you going to hold me accountable? And he was like, that's a good question. Because, of course, he's not an integrator. So integrator is easy for me to hold people accountable, but visionary is like, I don't know. I didn't even think about that. Like, I paid you to do this job, and this is what you need to do is how he was thinking, per se. But I wanted to know specifically because I don't like false expectations or silent, unspoken expectations or anything like that. So I didn't want him to think that I was going to do all of these things. And we didn't even talk about it.

So what was Christopher's answer? That was part of what, you know, gave you the green light to move ahead here?

Well, we came back with, as long as we stay in constant communication with each other with our same pages, and then if we really had anything that was on each other's mind, go ahead and just say it. So he was like, I think if we just keep talking, that will help him. And so I was like, that helped me, too, because I don't have to read your mind. I don't have to know, am I doing a good job? Is everything okay? And all of those things.

Any other questions you remember from that first four?

Probably about his vision of what he wanted next and the timeframe, because timeframe was really important to me because I'm day to day, so I know exactly what's going on in the business. And I was like, I need to know from him if he's going to say, oh, this year I need to do this. And I'm like, sir, that's impossible. I'm not going to be able to do that. So I'm just stay in the role that I'm in. And, you know, but he didn't. We talked it out and then we did like timeline of things.

So, Christopher, did any of your prior integrators ask you questions like this?

No. That's probably a key indicator right there. It took me a while to answer that. How are you going to hold me accountable? Because what Tiffany said is right, is, well, you're hired to do. Do a job. I mean, do it to the best of your ability, which is not really an answer.

So if the integrator makes you think, that's probably a good sign that you're on the right track.

Absolutely.

Okay, Very cool. All right, so we hop in and Tiffany, you've done a lot of great things, but this was something that you hadn't really done before, at least not in this structure. So did it all just kind of click immediately and you just kind of got it, or was it kind of a learning process for you?

Well, I think naturally, because I pay attention to people, it was easier for me to just jump in, make it my way. And then we were real clear on, this is what you're going to do, this is what I do kind of thing. And one of the things that I unspoken to myself was I'm like, I'm going to get him out of those seats that he don't want to be in. I was like, that's going to be the first thing and he's not going to have any rocks. And that really was like the first two big things that I was like, if I accomplish that, then I think I'm doing great because he can skip out of the off site meetings and being happy. And I'm good with like, I was his hero. So that's kind of what I did.

See, that's kind of heroes is a kind of an interesting theme in your company, right? I mean, your clients, you know, serve heroes, you want to be heroes to them. And so I love seeing that kind of show up and how you could be a hero to Christopher in this role. So how did she do on those two things, Christopher?

Fantastic. Fantastic. So I finally was able to vacate my final seat, which was sales, which is probably not uncommon. And being able to move fully into the visionary seat without any leadership team seeds is really different. It really allows you as the visionary to grow into what you really need to be doing. Very, very different, very rewarding.

So a lot of visionaries talk about this period of where they feel like they're being put out to pasture. Right. Because it's changing so much from the way they were focused on kind of in the business things, day to day responsibilities. And then they don't feel that anymore. And there's part of them that feels like, well, I'm not doing anything. Did you go through that and what was that like for you?

You know, yes, and to some degree I'm still going through it because it's such a big transition from whenever you started to where you are now. The idea that you don't need to be involved in the day to day or that you don't need to be the person that has to answer all the questions, that's a foreign thing. But it's no different than probably lots of other life's transitions. The rewarding part is to allow yourself the space to become more clear on what it is you want to focus on. So that's really one of the gifts you're getting is allow yourself that space. It's going to be a little bit uncomfortable, but you'll get through it. And you need to then figure out how do you continue to contribute? What's that look like? So you can be supportive of that whole leadership team and specifically the integrator. That's the real key. Right.

I know you've been in strategic coach for a number of years and so you're very comfortable with the idea of unique ability. In fact, you make that a focus. You make that a focus for your whole team.

Right.

How has your, you know, percentage of your time that you're able to spend in your unique ability changed since Tiffany's been your integrator?

Oh, wow. It's been huge. I try to spend 90 plus percent in unique ability. And the hard part about that is you think, oh my goodness, you know, do you spend every day just coming up with new ideas or whatever it is? No, that's not the way that it works. But you've got to keep your unique ability and your horizon in mind. So Tiffany and the leadership team, particularly Tiffany, are really good about if I dip down into the day to day, they will remind me that's not where my focus is because that's more of a problem for them than I'm being helpful and I realized that. So we've gotten really, really good there. But that means that you've got to be really Clear on your needs, ability, where it applies and how you're able to leverage that because that moves the whole organization forward.

And Tiffany, obviously you have a unique ability as well. It's exactly the same as Christopher's, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Not even close.

Not. Yes, not even close. But that's why it works, right?

So talk about that. So you're not the same people. You're not just kind of a perfect overlap of each other. You fit together. We talk about the two piece puzzle. How would you describe that complementary nature of your relationship?

We have this thing below and above the horizon. And so when we're clear on that's not a you thing, that's a me thing or the team to figure it out, it's easier. And then the other part is Christopher is very strategic. We're the same kind of there, but he has the ideas and he has the vision. He knows what, what's next. Like 10 years before, like we're already on, you know, the future. But for me, I look at the day to day, I look at what can we do to help get to that vision, like these baby steps. And then I give the context to the team. So he says all of it. And I speak Christopher is what we say. You speak Christopher, I speak Christopher. And then I cast that vision down to the team so then they can understand it in simple bite sized pieces.

You know, there's something that's important there that I see in a lot of visionary integrator duos where, you know, the visionary is flying at whatever altitude they're at. You know, maybe it's 25,000ft, maybe it's 75,000ft. The integrator is somewhere at a lower altitude, closer to the ground, closer to the team.

Right.

And if they're too far from that visionary, they can't speak Christopher. Right. They can't be that translator. So you gotta be close enough. You gotta be kind of in that middle layer. And it sounds like that's exactly where you two fly. So let's talk about conflict. So, Tiffany, you know, if you got something that you need to say to Christopher that he doesn't want to hear, how do you do that?

I just say it because when you beat around the bush, I think for Christopher is if I was weak and I was like, well, I don't want to tell you this, but then he wouldn't respect me the way that he does. So if I just come out and say, look, this is what's going on, I know we said this, but I'm gonna need Some more time on this because of xyz. So if I go ahead and explain the full picture, especially if it's high level, if it's not high level, then I don't bring it to him. I don't bother him with it. But high level things that are gonna affect the company, affect what plans that me and him set out together, I bring it to them and we do that in our same page. So Tuesday morning we meet with each other and we're like, hey, here's the FYIs. And this is what I need your help with, because I will ask for help too. So I think it's important that integrators don't think that they have to just do it all and they have to know every single thing.

So is it difficult for you when you have to deliver bad news or something that Christopher is going to receive as bad news? Is that difficult for you? No, I want everybody to hear that because that's so fascinating and so powerful. And Christopher, do you ever see her hesitate to tell you something?

Right?

So, I mean, it's really a beautiful thing. And everybody doesn't do that. So imagine, you know, all integrators in the world, some of them, they can do it, but it's really hard for them. And then there's others like Tiffany, that it just is. And she just moves into that space and she says the thing, and now we can work on the thing. And so I want everybody to hear that all you integrators that struggle with this and all you visionaries that your integrator may or may not be doing that for you, but that's what you need. You need somebody that can just lean in and tell you what you need to hear and then we can move into it and do what needs to be done. Tiffany, have you always been that way?

I'm naturally that way a little bit, yeah, that's me. Now I can understand how sometimes integrators can feel that, oh, he's going to think that I'm not doing my job, I'm not good enough and all of that. But at the end of the day, you cannot plan for everything. Like every single thing that happens in a week, you can't plan for it. So you got to just face it and move on.

I think that's so powerful, so interesting. If you want a truly productive team, you have to call our friends at Colby Corp. Colby will help you jumpstart your team health without a huge investment. Let's say your visionary and integrator could improve their Working relationship, call Colby. Or if your team needs help communicating and getting those rocks done on time, call Colby. Here's the deal. If you want to master the people component of EOS, visit colby.comeos, that's K O L B. So let's talk about growth. So, Christopher, you know, as you move into, you know, the visionary seed, more and more, how do you grow? How do you get better as Christopher in that role, what kind of things do you do to continue your trajectory as a visionary?

You have to be part of something that allows you to be supported in that type of growth. So whether it's eos, whether it's strategic coach, whether it's something else, you also have to have some foundation for your own growth. So for me, strategic coach has made a lot of sense. I've gotten a lot there. But you've got to have some place that you build that capacity, that you can be supportive. So it's interesting we talk about even conflict. This is a partnership between the visionary and integrator. So if you can't just say things and work through them, that's a real challenge because you should be able to just say it, knowing that each of you is going to play your part. Sometimes there's already solution in place, et cetera. But as you look for that type of growth, you've got to be able to supply that in a way that is able to be achieved by everybody. So I'm guessing typically the visionary is pretty far ahead of where the organization is. That's where I am. That's good. Except that they can't move at that speed because things don't work that way. So the integrator, and Tiffany particularly, is good about this. She wants my ideas. Just throw them out there, let her have them so she can noodle on them and put them in places that come about. Sometimes we kill them, obviously, but she doesn't ever push back on anything that's further out in the future. That's helpful because that allows me to share and, you know, tell her what I'm convinced of, what I'm not convinced of, and then we can start to work on it as we put it in place. That's really, really key. I think. If you're the visionary and you've got ideas but you're afraid to share them because you think, well, they're not ready and, you know, maybe I shouldn't yet, that's not good because that means you're just going to ruminate on these things yourself and maybe convince yourself you're Right or you're wrong. So it's supportive externally, supportive internally to be able to see that growth, to see how it fits.

One of the things I see for visionaries is there's getting clear on the business and what you want the business to do, but there's also getting clear on yourself.

Oh, yeah.

And what you want to do with your life, you know, in the business as a vehicle, it's something that helps you make all that happen. And I see Strategic Coach as a great resource to help with that side of the equation for you individually to just get really clear on what you want. Has that been your experience?

It has been. And when I was first referred to Strategic Coach, it was, this is about you, both personally and professionally. And I didn't know what that meant until I got involved with it. But it's really, really important because as the visionary as you get freed up, as you leave some of those leadership team seats and you start to think about, okay, how do I continue to be involved and supportive in the organization and do the real visionary job that requires you to figure certain things out. So the worst thing you can do is try to delve back into areas that you've been pushed out of. That's a bad way to go because you're going to cause problems and you're going to undermine people you've put in those seats. You're going to do all kinds of damage. So you've got to resist that tendency, and you've got to figure out, okay, what is it that I'm looking for here, and how do I apply that, and how much time does it take? And if I've got extra time, then what do I do with that extra time? So, you know, it's an interesting problem to have. It's probably not something that's very well understood by most people out there. Even if you're an entrepreneur, it's probably challenging to be at this point, but it's still good or bad. It's still something you've got to figure out and work on and figure out how can you play your most rewarding role both in and out of the office?

Tiffany, do you feel like Christopher has struggled to let things go in the beginning?

A little bit. But I think I remind him of, well, I say that's my ultimate flex for you to be able to do what it is that you want to do, not that you have to do. And so the more he thinks about the business in the future, I think it's becoming way easier. But in the beginning, he's like, I feel like I'm a little. I don't know what. And I felt the same way when I moved from leadership seat to the integrator where I used to be. I knew everything and I know this and that. And then I became integrator, and it's like, oh, gosh, now I got to know it for everything but high level. So I can't know the little nuances that my team has to deal with as much. So it's a time adjustment. But he's doing great now, like, wonderful.

So talk about that, Tiffany, from your perspective. We kind of talk about the visionary growth trajectory and kind of some of the things he does. What about you? Are there external resources that help you continue to grow as an integrator?

Absolutely. So I read a lot and I'm old school. I like to turn the pages still. I don't know, it's something about it. So I read different books, I listen to different podcasts. I have an executive coach myself. So I'm part of some groups that we meet and just talk about things that goes on in business and everything like that. So I just try to keep myself busy to make sure that I'm growing. I'm like, if I'm here, I need to be able to give it to my team. I need to be able to be there for my team and help them grow successfully as well.

Any of those resources that are specific for integrators.

So I am part of the integrator community with eos. And then I've met so many people. I went to the EOS conference and apparently I spoke in a session and people just have been reaching out to me. So it's really interesting because integrators, it can be lonely sometimes. So it's great to have people that know what I experience.

Yeah, there's a lot of people that can learn from you. And obviously we all have things to learn. Right? The journey to mastery goes on forever. And so if we can help each other along the way, it's better for all of us. So talk about what's hard. So what's still hard? What are some of the things that you're working on now? What are the things that you still struggle with even at this stage of the relationship?

It's rare that the relationship is this, well, true. So usually it's a lot of conflict. I believe it's probably one time I was stressed out about some other things and the only hard thing for me was for Christopher to pick up on. Now I need you to help me out so I can get a break. That's probably been the hardest thing because I've had so many things going on, and then I'm like, okay, this is the week. Everything that could happen happens this week. And so we've learned how to, like. He leans in now and he looks at me. He's like, oh, okay, that means I got it. It's me now. And I think that was probably the hardest thing, but he's better.

Talk about Christopher. I think you've described it as when Tiffany stepped into the role, it was really a cultural transformation for the company. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah. And so, from my perspective, kind of watching this, it's like the tempo just picked up. The metronome started going much faster than it had previously.

Right.

How difficult was it to keep up with that?

You know, probably initially, yes, we lost a few folks. I don't think anybody's super key, but any kind of change, you're going to have some disruption, no doubt. So it's interesting to me that we had underlying cultural problems that I recognized, but I hadn't a clue where they were coming from. And I'm thinking about it from my own perspective, and I. Not that I don't try to put myself in other people's shoes, but I'm just not getting it because I want people there. I want the best for them. I want them to be successful. I talk about it a lot, but that wasn't really what was behind it. So we did everything from look at our core values, make a change there, and then Tiffany's got some magic. I can't even tell you what it all is that really turned things for us. So, in short, I think I'd say we became a culture of clarity and accountability and spoken expectations. Not everybody likes that initially. Not everybody likes kind of the shadow being pushed aside and not in any kind of negative way. It's really interesting because people rise to expectations. People rise to, oh, this is what the job really looks like. This is really who I want to work with. So we went through not even that much of a transition. Cultural changes tend to take a long, long time. I think we did ours in a year or so and made some fundamental changes. We lost a couple people, but now it's just everything has sped up and elevated, and you can see the energy. You can see the management team who's very engaged and excited. It's really been fascinating to go through. And again, I couldn't go back and give you the recipe for how this worked. I just see the end result so very, very interesting.

So from the time you started eos, Christopher, until now, how much turnover do you feel you've had in the organization?

Let's see. The people who were there with me in the first EOS meeting are all gone. I think the second group is all gone. Maybe in the third group. I think I'm probably on the fourth full leadership team. We've replaced parts and pieces, and it's like so many things. You don't know it until you're at the point that you realize this is the team you need. And it's really hard to know that. I mean, why are you losing games? Who knows? You've got individual players that may be strong. When you get to the rhythm, that's really, really interesting. I will say, understanding people's unique ability, that's a process, and it's hard, but it's really important. And there's a big part of me now that thinks that that's what we're hiring is to fill that need. Tiffany's unique ability is so closely connected to her ability as an integrator. It's really fascinating to me. And if you were to take that away and she didn't have the unique ability she does, would she be as successful as integrator? I'd say probably not. So, but how do you get to that? How do you interview for that? Very, very tough to figure out.

Yeah, I love that, Tiffany. I mean, you feel the same?

Absolutely, yes.

Let's talk about something else that's unique. I think about your culture. You value travel, and you have, you know, you want everybody in the organization to have a passport. And, you know, to me, this is an expression. Travel is an expression of a form of freedom and learning. There's just a lot of good things that come from doing that. And people don't do it because they have constraints where they just can't or they feel like they can't. Right. So, Tiffany, you travel, and when you're gone, does the shop still operate? Do things still work? Do trains still run? How concerned about that are you while you're away?

I am so not concerned that I don't take my laptop with me.

So everybody listening is asking, how is that possible?

You have to have the right people in the right seat. And one of the biggest things is clear expectations. So there's things that's going to happen when, like, I'm out of the country. There has been things that happen, but my team handled it. All I got was the information afterwards, like, this is what happened. This is what we did to rectify it and here we are. And if it's something that I would have done a little bit different, I would just tell them, good job on this. However, next time do xyz. And long as they know it, because you can't expect them to know. You would have handled it just like this, you know, so they did the best. They didn't interrupt me. Me and my daughters were, you know, on the beach enjoying ourselves. And it's just letting the team lead their people and letting them know. So when I have one on one conversations with my leaders, I lay out expectations. There's no, I don't know what Tiffany wants from me. There's not one person that you can talk to that would say that, oh, Tiffany is this. And it's not that I'm hard or I am direct, but I don't believe in just, you know, beating around the bush because that means I'm playing it safe. I'm playing it like, oh, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. It's not about feelings. It's business, you know, so that's just how I run it.

When you talk about the relationship between Tiffany and myself, she is clear with her expectations with me as well. Very clear. And I like that as well. I understand not where lines are exactly, but she's clear and that's helpful because the last thing you want is ambiguity. And what did you mean by that? All that stuff. And she's clear, which allows me to totally work within what she has said. Works for her and probably vice versa as well. But it makes a big, big difference. So the role of the integrator, you know, is not to be a pleaser or a yes person whatsoever. They have a big job and basically they're saying, I can run this organization, you know, effectively in the way that I say fit, but this is what I'm going to need from you. And sometimes those hard lines are really, really helpful.

100%. So, Christopher, same thing for you, right? You're a visionary, you like to travel. What's the longest you've been away from the company since Tiffany's been on board as the integrator? Longest single stretch.

Two weeks.

Two weeks.

Just came back for two weeks.

Okay, so in that two weeks, where was your barometer on how kind of freaked out you were to be away and kind of concerned about how things were happening back at the shop?

No concern whatsoever. Doesn't even cross my mind. I log out of everything. I don't check any emails. I don't do anything. I know that if there is an issue that rises to me, I will get a text from our assistant who will loop me in initially before Tiffany and I talk. So that's the only thing that could possibly happen. I know the chances are extraordinarily rare that will happen, so I don't worry about it at all. And I've made that mistake in the past of trying to kind of clip one foot in the office and one foot on vacation or free time. It doesn't work.

Yeah, it's a different experience, isn't it? It's not a platinum level free day or trip. No. So people listening, they're visionaries, integrators, somewhere along the path, if they've just found out that's what they are to somebody like y' all that have been in relationship for a while or somewhere in between. So this is their opportunity to kind of be a fly on the wall and learn something from you two who do things very well. And when you think about that, if you were to have an opportunity to sit down with one of those folks in a Starbucks or something and just kind of go, boy, this was the thing. This was the thing for me. This was the thing for us that really helped. That really moved us forward. What would that be? What would that tool be? What would that nugget be? What would you tell them?

For me, I would just say clear communication. And one of the things I said before to other integrators is it has to work for you, too. Like, you can't just have the visionary be the only happy person, because then you're going to get burned out. And that can happen really quickly. So if you communicate about what it is that you expect and what it is that you need and you are straightforward with it, I think you can go really far in this position. But if you're scared and, oh, it's the owner of the company, he might fire me. You can't worry about that. You have to worry about yourself and make sure that you're good at the end of the day.

So I'm hearing, you know, say the thing, ask the question, whatever it is, with courage.

Yes.

Yeah. Love that. Christopher, what about for you?

For me as the visionary? It doesn't work if you're going to try to stay in other seats. Because on the accountability chart, let's say you were the initial salesperson and you're going to hold on to that. You're going to fall under the integrator. So you're hiring somebody, and then you're going to fall under them. And the accountability chart, it's not going to work. So you've got to be ready to vacate those seats. You've got to be ready to understand that that's part of the agreement. And then you've got to be really smart and clear about who it is that you're bringing on. And then I think you've got to be able to make a quick decision. So if it's this person isn't working or if it's clear the person is just somebody who's going to tell you yes, or they don't really know how to integrate all the functions, you've got to just bite the bullet and backtrack and start over again. Because once it starts, once you get it right, you'll know it pretty quickly.

Love that. Love that. Well, we're coming to the end of our time here, and so if our guests want to reach out and learn more about your business or learn more about either one of you, what's the best way for them to do that?

That our website, emergicon.com you could email probably either of us. I'll tell you. Mine is C turnermergicon.com Happy to speak with anybody who feels like they need it.

And mine is T Pearson P E A R S O N mergicon.com yeah, I appreciate that.

And we'll have those details in the show. Notes for everyone. So, Tiffany, Christopher, I am sincerely grateful to both of you for taking the time to be on here with us today. I know you have helped some folks that are out there listening, and that's really the whole point. And so love you guys, love what you do. You make each other better. You make all the people around you better, and it's a joy to watch. So thanks for that to our listeners. Hopefully you've got something of value listening to their experience of their journey a little bit today. And if you're liking what you're getting from this podcast, if there's some things that are helping you really appreciate, if you'd give us a little review out there, whatever platform you listen on that helps other folks find out about us and hopefully, hopefully we can help them as well. That's really what it's all about. So until next time, thanks everybody. And go Rocket.

All right.

What a fantastic conversation with Christopher and Tiffany from Emergicon. I love those two. I think they're a great example for all of us. We can really learn a lot. So when we go back to the toolbox here. So the Rocket fuel toolbox. I want to anchor these. There's three things that kind of come to mind for me from this one. So the first one, and it's not specifically a tool, but it's just so important that I just really want to re emphasize it. And it's the persistence that Christopher showed to keep going, to keep working and trying to find his right fit integrator, you know, going through multiple iterations that wouldn't work, trying different things, learning a little bit from each one. And even though he was super frustrated, keep trying to move forward because he knew he could make this work, he was committed to making it work. And then when he finally gets to Tiffany, boom. It's just a game changer. Literally the whole company changed, his world changed, everything changed. That's what he'd been looking for the whole time. So please hear that, please understand it doesn't always work right the first time. And that's okay, that's just part of it. We gotta be committed to pushing through, learning, getting better and doing the work to make that happen. Second tool I want to talk to you about, we call it the culture formula. And this is something that Tiffany talked about when she's emphasizing the importance of crystal clear expertation. She just makes people crystal clear on what's expected of them, even her visionary. So the formula that drives culture, and Christopher called it a cultural transformation, is really as simple as this. If we set crystal clear expectations specifically with regard to core values and gwc. So everybody, there's no question about what is expected of them for the core values of our organization. And there is no question about what is expected of them in whatever the core roles are of the seat or seats that they sit in. When they know that there's no way they could not know that. It's been just communicated so clearly to them. And we couple that with lma. So our accountability mechanism, great leadership plus great management, driving accountability consistently across the organization, top to bottom, everywhere. It just happens everywhere. So crystal clear expectations with consistent accountability across the organization that will shape your culture. That's the culture formula. So we must do those things. And integrators, you are the ones that make that happen in your organization. And Tiffany is an absolute rock star when it comes to that. The third thing is really comes back to accountability chart and having clarity on the seat or seats that you sit in. So Christopher talked about how for so long he was sitting in multiple seats and it's just hard. And even when he had an integrator in the middle, there's Something that's kind of weird and uncomfortable about that for the visionary to have to be accountable to the integrator if they're going to do it. So he wanted to get out of that. And Tiffany made it a clear priority. She made it. One of her clear focuses was to get Christopher out of all other seats except for that visionary seat, so he could really play that the way they needed it to be played. So accountability chart and that clarity there and using it, it's like your game board. It makes all those issues visible. You look at the accountability chart and you just kind of circle the thing that's not right. It's either there's a core values issue there or it's a GWC issue there, or it's a we got too many, many this person in too many seats thing. And once we see all those issues, we can go, you know what? This one's the one, this one's the next one. This is the one we got to go after and we got to solve it because it's going to either relieve the most pain for us or it's going to unlock the most opportunity for this organization. And so, boom, we go after it hard, we knock it out, we solve it. Once that's solved, then we, you know, what's the next thing? Something else floats to the top of that list and we just keep chipping away, chipping away, chipping away. And so these two have done a masterful job of doing that work. So thanks to Christopher, thanks to Tiffany for being such great models for us as a strong visionary integrator duo. I trust you learn something. I always do. And together we all get better. So until next time, Go rocket. Make huge leaps on your journey towards EOS mastery by joining us us at the 2025 EOS Conference in Washington, D.C. happening April 2nd through 4th. The week will feature engaging breakout sessions, ample network opportunities and can't miss keynotes from Gino Wickman and the best selling author of Atomic Habits, James Clear. Our biggest event of the year, this is the place to connect with other business leaders, learn from entrepreneurial experts and strengthen your implementation of EOS tools. Go to eosconference.com to register now.