Get on the Same Page and Go 1,000 Miles per Hour | Andy Atkins & Sue Straw

A lot of it too was sue saying, hey, dude, like, we got this. Go do the things that you need to be doing. We got this. We got this. You've taught us enough. You don't need to tell us again for the 800th time how to do it. We will get to the point where you want to be. And that's where we're at right now, is like, I have complete trust in our team to be able to execute where we are. And then I really only jump in when I kind of see it jumping off the rails or I have more information that I haven't either disseminated enough to sue and the rest of the team, or things change so quickly that I'm able to be like, hey, here's where we can go instead.

Hey everybody.

This is Mark C. Winners, co author of Rocket Fuel and expert EOS implementer. Welcome to the Rocket Fuel podcast where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create what we call rocket fuel. Today I'm excited to welcome Andy Atkins and sue straw of 730 Eddy Studios, a collection of highly trained video professionals whose focus is on client centered corporate video production. Andy is the founder, CEO and visionary of 7Thirty Eddy and has over 23 years in television news and multimedia production. And sue is the managing director and integrator. In this episode, Andy and Sue focus on how if you want to build a strong visionary integrator relationship, leadership team and company, you need to make time.

For same page meetings.

We're going to start the show where sue shares how her career path led her to become the integrator at 7:30 eddy. Here we go.

So before I was with 7:30 eddie, I was working as a environmental consultant based in Denver and then had some, you know, life moves that took us back to West Michigan where I'm from, and ended up being laid off from that job. And you know, Andy's wife and I actually went to college together. So that's sort of how we were connected. And Andy was my wedding photographer years ago and wow, at the time.

So.

I kind of got laid off and it was about, I don't know, a couple weeks later that Andy with his growing company was like, I really need someone to come on board and manage projects. And then it's just kind of taken off from there.

So at that point in time, you obviously had some life connections. Suit, did you have any awareness of what the integrator role was or kind of what that might entail at that point, or is that something you learned about kind of later?

No. Yeah, not at that point. We weren't even really running EOS that much when I first came on board. Andy was sort of self implementing, had read the book himself. And then when we got hooked up with our like, facilitator, Barb, our implementer. Yeah, that's when the whole visionary integrator conversation sort of started brewing and coming to life. So.

So Andy kind of pick us up from there. So Sue's on board and, you know, you start to get into some real EOS implementation more. Well, actually, talk to me about how you met your implementer, Barb Reinbold, and kind of what that started and maybe a role that she played. Was she an influence in how you got to the decision point that, you know, I need an integrator?

So I met Barb through a online sort of COVID masterclass thing that I had joined and she came on sort of as a, hey, I'm in the community. There's a bunch of business owners that were having that sort of, you know, everybody's on zoom Covid kind of conversations. And we just kind of hit it off. Right. And like sue had said, I had been playing in the traction world a little bit. I had read it, I had loved it, I had done a few things in my own brain. I thought I was doing a really good job. But then I met Barb and she's like, well, let's just have a 90 minute conversation. And so we did. And I was like, oh, so I really am not doing this the way I need to be doing. What do I need to do to actually do this for real. Because we were, like sue said at that point of the sort of our second plateau to use that language, as we were ready to break through that ceiling. And so sue and I had been working together for a few years and we're like, we should try this. It's a little bit of an investment, but I think it'll be okay. Let's try it, see what happens. And literally in like that first 10 minutes of talking to Barb, I was off doing stuff and not answering Barb's emails. And sue was answering all of Barb's questions about getting us set up for our first day with her. And I think it was in an email or in a phone call. She goes, well, Sue's your integrator. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

It was more like, are you sure, sue, your integrator?

Oh, that's right.

Yeah.

Yep.

That's how it happened.

So then you get into the, you know, the implementation process, and, you know, you're probably doing that focus day, and you're really working on the accountability chart, and you're putting people in the seats after you design that structure. And so was it obvious how many people were on the leadership team at that point?

So we had a little bit of turnover after our first focus day. We had three on the leadership team and had Andy sitting in that visionary and integrator seat, and then two others, myself and one other sitting on the leadership team.

In that first session where you're really drawing it for the first time. Okay, Andy, you're sitting in both. So you're sitting in visionary and integrator. You've had a little bit of pre discussion. It sounds like that. Are you sure Sue's not your integrator? Right. And so did you talk about that in that first session where you drew the accountability chart? And how did you deal with that? Was it kind of like Andy's in that seat for now, but it's an issue, and we're going to try to figure out how to get sue in there. Was that the discussion?

It's more of Andy's sitting in both of those spots. And that's not ideal, is. You know what Barb said. It's like, it's not ideal that someone is sitting both those seats. And then we ended up expanding our leadership team and kind of changing it after that first focus day. And then I think it was after that fact, as we were kind of working through the employee turnover, that we more so solidified, like, oh, you know, sue needs to be in this integrator's seat.

So how much later was that?

It was like our next quarterly where we had two new people at the table. Yeah. Two new on our leadership team, and which is our current leadership team.

Okay. And so then how long have you actually been sitting in that integrator seat as defined?

A year.

A year, I think. Does that sound right, Andy?

Yep.

He's nodding yes.

Yep.

Okay. So now we're kind of getting into you really sitting in that seat. And Andy, as you're looking at this and being the visionary and you're thinking about getting sue in that seat, what were some of the things that were really important for you? What was really, you know, the kind of think about it from a. You needed to see this before you'd be confident making that move. This was going to be the most important thing that you wanted to her to kind of get a good fast start and really be successful in that seat. What was kind of going through your head? Let us hear about that.

Yeah, So a lot of it came down to just drawing it out. I mean, Barb and I, in that first leadership meeting, in that beginning conversation, just sort of put everything out that I was trying to do and like the too many hats kind of conversation. And from there I really sort of internalized that for a little while and was like, wait, there's no way I can do this well and do the things that I want to do going forward. And then sue and I had a bunch of conversations sort of at that point of, okay, what are you doing, Andy? What could you be doing better? What could we do? What could you hand off to me? What could we sort of delegate and elevate at that point? And then by that second sort of focus day, and we had that new leadership team, we had a really good idea of who's in a better spot to do this and who can I trust to take it up a level if we needed it, and who can do it in a way where it gets done to the satisfaction, but it might not be the way that I would do it. And that's been the hardest is I totally trust my team, but I also am very like, this is the way I've always done it. So here's how I think we should do it. And it's been a learning process to take that and then just sort of go and then coach instead of do it for them or take one path versus the other. But we end up at the same end result.

So in my notes, I have that you're a self described recovering control freak. Did you say that, Andy, about yourself?

Yeah, kind of.

So talk to us about how you deal with that. Because it's a visionary thing. It's not uncommon. Actually. Let me preface with this. When we were writing the book, I had an assumption that visionaries were all kind of control freaks. And what I found when I talked to them, though, more and more was that it really wasn't about control, it was about trust. And there was something in their past where they had trusted somebody to take care of something that was super important to them. And then whoever that was, didn't take care of it and they messed it up, they dropped it and broke it, whatever. And then the visionary has to jump back in and put all the pieces back together and kind of fix it, save it, whatever you want to call it.

And so it was really about trust.

They wanted to Let go. But they just had trouble trusting. So was yours really a control thing, or is it a trust thing?

Well, I would add a third part to that conversation, too, is in the world that I come from, from TV news and from the TV world that I came up before I built 7:30 Eddie, it was a lot of doing it myself. And so it was like more of like, hey, I know I can get this done faster, and we can be more efficient as a group. And so that was where my mentality really was in the beginning, is like, oh, I'll just jump in and help because I know how to do it. And then you can work on something else, and you can work on something else, and we'll do three things at once. And then there were moments in building the agency where, like, you're right. There are like, hey, I. Something fell apart, I just jump in, go that way. And then a lot of it, too, was sue saying, hey, dude, like, we got this. Go do the things that you need to be doing. We got this. We got this. You've taught us enough. You don't need to tell us again for the 800th time how to do it. We will get to the point where you want to be. And that's where we're at right now, is like, I have complete trust in our team to be able to execute where we are. And then I really only jump in when I kind of see it jumping off the rails or I have more information that I haven't either disseminated enough to sue and the rest of the team, or things change so quickly that I'm able to be like, hey, here's where we can go instead. Right?

So, Sue, I hear from a lot of integrators that over time, they begin to sort of decode their visionary and understand the most effective ways to communicate with them when they need to deliver some news, maybe bad news or news the visionary doesn't want to hear. And also when the visionary is behaving in some way that may be disruptive, they have a way to sort of ask them nicely, tell them nicely to cut it out. So have you started to figure that out for Andy? What works for you and how do you do it?

Yeah, they kind of refer to it as speaking Andy.

Speaking Andy.

Like, our team. Nice that, you know, like. And we have had those moments where, you know, we just have the type of relationship, like Andy said, that we have the trust there, that there's no barrier or. And I'm not afraid to say something to him, and that's come a long way from when we first started being like, oh, no, this is my boss. Like, you know, what he says is kind of what we have to do. Whereas now the trust and the relationship has been built that, you know, it's okay for me to come with the ideas and the approaches that I think are probably better suited for either something with a client or even just, like, internally with the team. Like, okay, this is your message. Let's reframe it and put it out in this way, because that's going to go over better. But we've just gotten to that point where those conversations, we can have them and it's okay. And they're not always, like, fun conversations, but we don't leave with any different relationship than we had when we started. And it's just like, knowing that he supports me and my decision making and the way I process and handle things has allowed us to just grow and be better.

So, Andy, maybe you can take this one. What is it about how sue approaches you with information like that that really makes it easier for you to process? And what is if she were to deliver it in a different way? What's the way that would maybe put up your defense shield or put you in a different mode where it wouldn't be as productive? What do you see as the key? She calls it speaking Andy.

Yeah. So sue is the most chill person ever. You can't flap her. The whole world can be crumbling around us, and we can all look to sue to be like, yep, okay, that's where she's a rock. We're good. And I'm not like, I am energetic. I am a lot. I have been described as exhausting, but that's okay because that's what I need to be to continually do what we need to get done. So in our relationship, I mean, sue and I have spent so much time in conversation and hallway conversations. L 10 conversations, slacks, in the middle of the night. Kind of things that we can kind of just read. Hey, when sue says this, that means this. And it's funny that she says speaking, Andy. But when talking to sue and understanding Sue, I know what Sue's thinking just by looking at where her eyes shift or the way her body language changes every now and then to be like, oh, okay, so I need to rephrase that, and then go the other way. Or, you know, if there's something that I say and I, like, bounce, glance at sue, and I'm like, let's try that, you know? And so it really has. We have been able to Be sort of that visionary integrator. We didn't really know what that was before, but as we describe that and as we build that more, it just. It makes more sense for us. And you can ask people on our team, too. They get it when they're like, oh, are you and sue cool? And, like, totally, or is, like, something going on? Because then we've just. We've established this really great relationship that allows us to have that flexibility of being like, well, maybe I don't agree with sue, but I know she's got the best interest of the business or the client or the project or whatever, and then we can work through it. And if it's something that we need to bring up in an L10, we do. Our same pages are like my favorite meetings of all, because we can just throw everything on a Miro. We can work through a bunch of stuff, and then we come out of it as this really, like, solidified team that then we can take it and go and do the hundred things that have to get done that week or the next two weeks or the next big event, and it really helps. Right.

So I want to come back to the same page meeting, but before I do that, just to kind of put a wrapper on this one. A lot of times we'll use profiling to kind of help us understand each other within the context of the visionary integrator relationship or the leadership team in general. And it's never one person's responsibility to come all the way to another person's style or way they're wired. Right. But it is both of our responsibility to kind of meet in the middle, that space that we can be effective in. So what I hear you two saying is sue is speaking in Andy, and Andy is listening in Sue. And so that's the two of you kind of finding that place where you can get the messages back and forth. And so it sounds like that's a really great representation of exactly what we teach, and it's working for you. So now let's do. Let's go to the same page meeting. So, sue, maybe you can kind of take this one for a little bit and tell me what your same page meeting structure looks like and, you know, how often, how long, where sort of how you get into it and what your experience of those meetings is.

Yeah, so we. We go, like, a thousand miles an hour. And so finding a cadence can be hard sometimes, but we do try to do at least once a month, same page, and we've been pretty good about that. But like Andy Said there's a lot of times where we're having an ad hoc. Another one. But, like, kind of our official same page ones we do once a month, we try to go off site for anywhere between two to four hours.

Like, we're off site. What kind of place?

There's a hotel, sort of conference center in town where we can be in our own space, separate space that's quiet, away from the team, away from the office, away from all the things. And we get so much accomplished in such a short period of time that they're super beneficial. But we. I'd say that the way we run them is, you know, we sort of just check in with each other to start, and then. And then it's just bringing up like, hey, what are the issues? And what are the big things we need to go through and solve that are hindering us to move forward?

So do you both bring issues? Does one of you tend to bring more of them? Do you have them there in advance or just kind of bring them to the meeting? How does that piece of IT work?

I'd say we both bring whatever is on our mind. But then we kind of keep a running list if things have come up in between. You know, we have a platform we use where we record all the IDs that we need to do.

What's the platform?

It's called ClickUp. It's a project management platform. Yeah.

Okay. And so, you know, some of these, you know, I'm just like everybody. You've got all different flavors of issues. You know, some of them, I'm guessing, aren't all rosy and easy and whatever. So when you get into a sticky one, even though we're being a good communicators, you start to get that conflict. How does that work? What does conflict look like between the two of you? Andy, maybe you can take that one.

So conflict for us is usually the first thing is sue will go offline. Like, she'll just take a minute and go and think about it and come back when she's got something. Like, she'll go dark on her slack notification. She won't respond to it. I'll be like, oh, Sue's offline? What'd I say? What'd I do? What are we doing? And then from there, it's like a couple hours a day, whatever the weekend pto, whatever it is, I'll be like, okay, I know Sue's gonna bring it up when she's ready. I'm ready now. But Sue's. Whenever Sue's ready, we'll Talk through it and then we'll back through it. You know, the cool part about the way sue and I have always worked and really since EOS has really taken hold for us, is that we've been able to avoid any really big stressful moments because we put them through the system. If it's an issue that's going to maybe cause something down the road, it's probably already been brought up in our L10. And if it hasn't, then we'll talk about it really quick. Or we'll slack back and forth about it and be like, hey, is this something we should talk about on the same page? And then if it is, we'll schedule something right away because Sue's right. We go a thousand miles an hour. We really can't let issues, unless they're not fully baked, last more than like 24 hours. So we try to jump on it right away and close it off as quickly as we can. And if it's a long term problem that needs to be solved over time, we run it through that same process that you would run any problem in an L10. We ids it, we make that to do, we figure out, okay, who's cascading what. Even if it's between the two of us, it's like, I'm going to say this and you're going to say this and we're going to find that next path. And then we try it and sometimes it comes back up and sometimes it's like, oh, we solved it. Move on. Rock and roll. And then I can think of maybe one or two things where if it just isn't like we can't figure it out, we call Barb.

Oh, gee, that's what I was going to ask. I'm like, okay, so when you land on something that you really can't get on the same get aligned, right? So one of you is looking this way and one of you is looking the other way. What do you do? And your answer is, you call Barb.

Call Barb? Yeah.

If you can't reach Barb, what do you do?

I can't even really think of a situation where we've been like that. I'm not a confrontational conflict type whatsoever. So, like Andy's saying, I take my time to process and then I have a plan and approach. And typically we can just work through it. If it's something that is a leadership level, bringing it to that table with the two other voices usually lets us work through it. But I can't think of some big conflict that Andy and I haven't been able to work through, you know, as the trust has been built and the relationship has grown, I'm a lot more comfortable just when there is an issue, just saying it so it doesn't. We don't sit on it anymore.

So, sue, question for you. So an issue I see with a lot of visionaries is they don't fully commit to the same page discipline, and they're always kind of trying to maybe get out of doing the same page meeting, or they just. There's always some reason to kind of try to minimize it or push away from it, or they think they're getting plenty of communication, plenty of interaction with their integrator, just in daily interactions, because their offices are close together. They see them in the hall all the time, whatever it might be. So is Andy the kind of visionary where you kind of have to rope into making sure they do the same page work, or is he clicked right in and he's really pushing forward as hard as you are? What's your feeling?

No, totally on board. They're so beneficial. I mean, I think our hardest issue is finding time on the calendar that it fits the schedule, because, you know, we're just all over the country and, you know, finding that time to sit down. But in terms of being committed to the actual meeting and what we get out of it, we're both just 100%, like, on board. Look forward to those meetings, you know.

That's great. How far out do you schedule them?

They're on the schedule for the year.

Okay. So 12 months out, you know, they.

Recur at the same time, same place every month. Doesn't mean they're not going to shift, but they're there. Yeah.

So, Andy, were you that committed to the same page discipline from the beginning, or is that something that sort of evolved as you realize, wow, we're getting a lot out of this. And it became more over time. What was your experience of it?

So I read about it in the book, but it didn't click until we were talking to Barb and she was like, no, this is what this is for four. And then sue and I were like, okay, we're going to try one. And after that first one, it was like, yep, this is going to be one of my most important meetings on my calendar every month. And just because there are so many moving parts and we are trying to grow and scale and build so quickly on so many levels that if we can't be on the same page, then things are going to crackle and fall apart. And we've seen that, like, in real time, when we're like, we skip the same page or we push one out too far and it gets overlapped and then we're on the road, and then I'm on the road, then someone's on PTO and things just go boom. Because we did not have our own. Sue and Andy plan to go from X to Y. And so I love them. And if we could do them once a week, I absolutely would, just because it helps us so, so much. Plus, I'm very much a, like, verbal visual thinker where I'm just throwing things and putting things out and trying things. And I might say it once and twice and think the whole company is ready to go with it. That gives me a safety net to say those things. And then Sue's like, hey, remember three meetings ago when we said we were going to change all of these accountability things?

Right.

Oh, yeah. You know, and like, it just. It allows us to have sort of a catch, but also a safety net for my. Just blah.

There you go. It's the space, it's the room for visionary blah.

Yeah, exactly. And it's so important. I like that, like any VI out there group that's not doing it, they absolutely should because it's so beneficial.

Okay, so another interesting question, Andy, this is. I want to hear this from your perspective, but I know there's sort of a lot of personal world, maybe interconnection here between the two of you that existed before this. So, sue, you're good friends with Andy's wife, as I understand it. Is that right?

Yep.

So, Andy, from your perspective, does that change things? I see sometimes visionary integrator duos that, you know, they're best friends or they may be family or sometimes they're spouses. So here you've got an integrator counterpart that's, you know, really good friends with your spouse. How does that play into things? Does that, you know, make it. Do you feel like you need to tiptoe? Do you feel like, you know, there's some different way you need to treat the relationship because of that?

No. My wife is very sharp and very smart and very much a wonderfully integrated part into our company. She's not in the day to day of it, but she definitely helps me figure out, okay, what are we going to do next? How are we going to do this next? I can go to her if I have a crazy idea and she can help me communicate that better because she's an amazing communicator. And honestly, I think Having Betsy, that's my wife. Having Betsy be friends with sue has helped in a couple of ways because she can also. She's known Sue. She knows how sue thinks. She knows Sue's background. She knows that. She also knows that not all the time, am I right? And she's a very easy person to be like, hey, Andy, that's not how we should do it, or, that's gonna go this way. And you can't see that, but I'm gonna tell you. And I love that about her very much. And so the relationship that she has with sue and the relationship that I have with sue are completely different. And we've been, I think, very good at keeping the work relationship and the friend relationship. Like sue and I's friendship and my wife and Sue's friendship, and then sue and I's Vi relationship at work. They live in separate buckets. But I think they benefit from each other in really cool ways because we have a lot of shared experiences that mold us. You know, we have similar age kids. We come from similar socioeconomic backgrounds. You know, sue has a lot of really cool experiences before 7:30, Eddie, my wife and I have a lot. And then they just have this mixed perspective that I can't see it being any other way and being as beneficial as it has been without probably having more of that conflict we were just talking about. Because we can come from different perspectives, but we can also see each other from the perspectives that we're at, and we can kind of put ourselves in each other's shoes. And probably a big part of that is because we have this sort of conduit of Betsy. You know, it works out really well.

Interesting. Yeah, interesting. So, Sue, I'm curious about your perspective on it. I mean, did it change your friendship? You know, does it change how you interact with Andy? What's your experience of it?

I'm really good at doing the same thing, like Andy said, of keeping things in buckets. I don't really mix work and friendship, and I do it on purpose because it's like, you know, when you're with your friends, you don't really want to be talking about work. So it hasn't changed. I think, if anything, it's made our friendship closer and better because I'm seeing and talking to her more than I was before. And like Andy said, you know, she's involved in our business because they are the business owners, right? And she has great ideas, and she's always a good sounding board for me too. And it's just, you know, everyone, if.

There'S anyone who can speak Andy more than sue, it's Betsy.

There you go. There you go. Okay, great. So it's a language coach.

Yeah, exactly.

All right, so let's go to a different question I've got for you. So it seems like you know each other pretty well. You're working, you know, proactively to kind of understand each other and communicate effectively. So it's sort of my version of the visionary, integrator, newlywed game here. Sue, if you. If I were to ask Andy one thing he would like you to do differently, one thing he would like to see different about sue, what would he say?

He would want me to be more bossy.

Be more bossy. Andy, what's your answer?

Ding.

She nailed it. Really impressive. All right, so let's flip it around then. Okay, so, Andy, if I were to ask Sue a similar question, what's one thing that she would most like to see change about? Andy, what would she say?

Slow down.

It was pretty close.

What would have been even closer, Sue?

Thinking before action, Thinking through it more before. But that's. Slow down, right? Like, take the time. Don't just react. Right? Yeah.

Does that surprise you, Andy, or does that make sense to you?

No, that's. I mean, honestly, that's been the feedback from everyone that I've trusted as a mentor, as a friend, or as a leader in my life since that's about six.

I love asking that question because I get a sense of how well the two of you really kind of do understand each other. And of course, there's a lot of commonality to the responses I get. I mean, guess what? It's pretty often that the integrator is trying to get the visionary to slow down just a little bit. Right? And the visionary is trying to get the integrator speed up just a little bit. Right. Or push a little harder or whatever it is, some version of kind of those same things. And, you know, what's important to remember is that the fact that we're different, that tension is power. And so we need both of those kinds of energies in the organization. So you're both doing a great job of bringing that. So that's awesome. All right, so we have lots of listeners that are, you know, they're visionaries, they're integrators. They're on their own journey, whatever stage they're at. And so you've got an opportunity to share some little nugget of wisdom that you've gleaned so far in your own rocket fuel journey as either the Visionary or the integrator. So what's something you might share with them that might help them get a little closer to where they're trying to go? Maybe a little faster and maybe with a little bit less pain and suffering? Sue, can you start us off?

Yeah. I would say you have to have that relationship that's built on trust, but at the same time empowering your counterpart to do what they're best at. And we have that, and it just makes it work. But you have to have that trust in the relationship. If you don't, it won't work.

Love that. It starts with trust. Andy, what about you? What's the nuggets you can share from the visionary seat?

Don't have, like, so many, but again, true visionary. I have, like, 12 things I want to say, but I would say don't be afraid to try it. Don't be afraid to be like, well, what if we did it this way? An example is like a delegate and elevate list. Like, try it. See if it works. If it. And try the things that make the most sense to you. Because especially in our relationship, I can come with a crazy idea of, we're gonna do this thing. And sue usually lets me go for it, but she'll always be like, okay, you tried it, but did it actually work? And being able to have that space to work with her and experiment and try things, but know that it may just be a whim allows us to have a better relationship and then at the end, a better business. And I think that's where our power really has grown for us, is we're a better company. We have a better company culture. We have a better client, we have better roi, we have better margin revenue. All of those things that are super important to the. To the business, both internally and externally, because we've been able to. So it's that ability to be like, okay, cool, let's go with it, but then come back to what's most important at the end, and those kind of, like, three things, but I tried to keep it short.

Typical visionary nugget. No, Love it. Good stuff there.

Yes.

So we're kind of coming up against the clock here. If our listeners want to find out more about your company or either one of you, what's the best way for them to get ahold of you?

So for us, it's always just find us on our website. Find us on Instagram. You can email me, you can email Sue. It's just andy@7:30eddie.com or click the link on our website. That connects right to our HubSpot. We're very much always on and we're always willing to talk about how best we can help you. And if we can help you in one, two or a thousand ways, we're 100% on board.

Yeah, I just throw in LinkedIn. We're on there too.

Yeah, yeah, LinkedIn for sure. Yeah.

Okay. Love that. We'll put links to those things in the show notes so people can track you or your company down as they want to. And I'm super grateful to both of you for spending a little bit of your day with us today. I know that you've added value to our listeners and they'll be able to pick up some things that'll help them along their own Rocket Fuel journey. And that's really the point of our little podcast here. So to our listeners, thanks for listening. We appreciate you being with us as well. And if you like what you're hearing, if this is helping you, please write us a little review that helps more people find out about the Rocket Fuel podcast and hopefully can help them along their journey as well. So until next time, go Rocket.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I really hope you were inspired by our guests. If you're interested to discover how your current visionary integrator relationship compares to the relationship you'd like, I invite you to go visit rocketfueluniversity.com and take our free Crystallizer assessment. You'll get both your visionary and integrator indicator scores and that's going to help.

You figure out your next step.

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