https://www.listennotes.com/e/7125be4ec5d94470929c0c78d4e42c10

As an integrator, I will never build a cabin, I will never build a shed, I will never do those things. I don't have to be an expert in those things, but what I have to do is I have to make sure that the people that are doing it get the support from their management, get the support from the other pieces of the organization. And from that perspective, it's almost industry agnostic. Now, when it comes to pricing, when it comes to a lot of the detail work, obviously it's very industry specific. And that's where, at least at this stage, I rely a great deal on Jonathan and his experience.

Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Rocket Fuel Podcast, where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create Rocket Fuel. I'm your host, Mark C. Winters, co-author of Rocket Fuel and an expert EOS implementer. Today, I'm excited to introduce George Babbitt, and Jonathan Ulrich. Jonathan is the CEO and visionary of Ulrich Lifestyle Structures, which started as a family business focused on providing families with the structure that allows them to live their dreams. After working in the family business from a young age, Jonathan has worked in a variety of roles in the family business and helped sales grow by 650% over the years. George Bobbitt Sr. joined Ulrich Lifestyle Structures in February of this year as the President, Chief Operating Officer and Integrator. He served as an Integrator and COO for CMIT Solutions and spent nine years in the defense and national intelligence industry before becoming an integrator. In this episode, Jonathan and George break down the challenges that come when a new integrator joins the team and how to find the right leaders for the seats on the team. We're starting the conversation by hearing about Jonathan's early experiences with the EOS process and finding the right integrator match. Here we go.

The process was the most straightforward, the most simple, I think easy to grasp, a lot of support in books and et cetera. But in regards to integrators, so reading through your book that you and Gino wrote together made me realize that while I was reasonably okay-ish at doing some of the integrator tasks, it's not what really brought me joy. It's not my sweet spot. And so we set out in the process, obviously, of implementing EOS with you, but then also to hire an integrator. and my first time around, hired an incredible human being, great core values, but ended up with somebody who really was a lot more similar to my personality than to that of George's or to that of what really I need. I'm a use culture and index. I'm a 10-3000 enterpriser, and Chris was a Trailblazer, so he loved to be in the Limelight. He loved for the sales side of the organization, even though he had grown up in an ops world. And so it was ultimately he and I looked at each other and said, we both love doing the same things and hate doing the same things, which does not make a great fit when you need a visionary integrator duo. So that was sort of my start with an integrator.

Right. And so before that, it was really you sitting in both seats. And when you had to hold down that integrator seat, you know, being naturally wired as a visionary, what did it feel like when you had to sit.

In that integrator seat? Anxiety. I think in some ways I enjoyed it because there's a lot of tangible things you can do that move pretty quickly. Then when you're working on culture and M&A and looking to the future, you may see the future two years before you start actually doing anything about it in some cases. It's just a lot slower process. So, you know, the more immediate nature sometimes I enjoyed, but really, you know, trying to make sure the trains run on time, the systems and processes, Building out the systems and processes, holding people accountable, terminating the wrong people that were in the wrong seats on the bus and hiring new ones, all things I didn't enjoy. It's amazing because I can see when George or somebody else doesn't do it, but when I'm doing it myself, it's a little bit different.

That's right. All right. So you learned that you didn't necessarily love sitting in the integrator seat and you had somebody else sit in there and they were qualified and good and experienced and good core values and all that kind of stuff. But when you look at kind of what we call the two-piece puzzle piece, you guys had a lot of overlap.

That's right.

So we didn't have that nice fit together where we basically cover everything without too much overlap. So it turned out we were missing some things. So you take that learning and you go back out into the world and you look for somebody that can really do this integrator thing the way you need it done. And you find George. And, you know, it turns out George and I actually have some history. You know, George was with a firm that I worked with some years ago and played that integrator role. And so talk a little bit about your first conversation with George and what that kind I looked like and how you felt.

Yeah. So first conversation was literally we were looking at bringing in George as a consultant to fill in on a couple projects and even in the CFO seat. And my old integrator and myself looked at each other at the end and said, I think this is an integrator, not a CFO. And George's background was, you know, as an integrator, as a CEO, not as a CFO, but he had some finance experience. And the conversation was just very different, right? I mean, the easiest, most simple way I can tell you is it seemed that ironically, he loved doing all the things I don't like doing and respected and looked to the visionary to do the things that I do love doing, right? Which was different for me. Not that I did ever feel respected by my old integrator, but it was just this unique two-piece puzzle as you talk about it. was very, very apparent from the first conversation. And so as we continued throughout the interview process and talked about the visionary and integrated roles, it became more and more apparent. Obviously we did the Culture Index survey and George is a, if I'm a wide enterprise or George is a very wide architect. And so Culture Index obviously backed up what I was observing in our interviews. And we moved pretty quickly. In a conversation earlier today, Told someone else that George and I didn't interview very long as long as normally the interview process and the recruiting process wasn't as long as normal. But George corrected me and said, but it was pretty intense though. So I think we covered a lot of ground in a very short time period because we both have complimentary personalities.

So you crammed the same number of units into a shorter timeframe, right? That actually, that's probably a superpower of a great integrator is to be able to help us do that. so that's very interesting. Okay, so George, you've done this role in the past and with a company that had a lot of success and you meet Jonathan and you're kind of scratching your head talking about an assignment that does this or that, and then all of a sudden we start talking about an integrator seat. How did that all kind of play to you? How did you feel about that?

Well, to me, it was a pretty exciting opportunity. I look at, you know, Ulrich Lifestyle Structures, and it's a multi-state operation. potentially working towards an exit and there are some issues that need to be fixed. And all those are things that I enjoy doing. Yeah, things I've done in the past and I've enjoyed doing. So I thought it was a great opportunity.

And Jonathan, you know, he's this wild man, you know, Visionary out there doing a lot of stuff, thinking about a lot of things, meeting new people all the time. How did you think you were going to be able to Wrangle that animal and get it focused and help get the company focused so you could take care of the things that we need to take care of?

Yeah, to be honest, I think Jonathan asked me at least three times, so what do you need from me? Do you need financials? Do you need the et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? What do you need from me? I just need to know that you're going to follow the rules. That was really all that I cared about. And honestly, in my mind, the fact that he was working with you, Mark, told me that he was genuinely invested in following the EOS process and following the rules.

So, yeah, so you got to tell me though, what was it that Jonathan said? Was there something he said that was persuasive to you that he actually was gonna, you know, follow the rules as you put it?

Yeah, I mean, well, we just talked about the process that we would use going forward to stay aligned, right? Which is in track with what I would expect, you know, and like I said, to me, a big part of it was that he had made an investment in hiring you. As far as all the US integrators are concerned, right? I mean, you kind of go to the top dog, and that's a big statement. So to me, in our track record, you have been that referee between myself and the missionary before, and I knew you'd fall in that same role here if necessary. And Jonathan was already invested time and effort with you, so I firmly believe that he would follow the rules.

So let's talk about that. I mean, let's talk about the conflict that naturally occurs between a visionary and an integrator. Now we're early on. I don't think you've called yet and said, hey, Mark, you need to come, you know, pull us apart or anything like that. At least I don't remember that. So. But what does conflict look like between you two? So, George, let's say you've got to give Jonathan some news that he doesn't want to hear.

How do you think about that? How do you approach that? Yeah, generally speaking, To be honest, I don't think I've really had any conflict with Jonathan yet. We're just entering the fourth month of our relationship, so that is yet to come. But my experience is it's going to be one of two areas. It's going to be that your organization can't move as fast as Jonathan wants to move, or we're changing too frequently, right? And trying to corral that. The other is going to be making P&L decisions Again, like I said, I have not run into these issues yet, but this is just from experience, making P&L decisions that aren't visionary's role.

Right.

So Jonathan, what's your experience so far in terms of, and it goes both ways. Sometimes the integrator is the one who's got bad news. Sometimes the visionary isn't happy, isn't whatever, and so they've got some things to say to the integrator. The integrator doesn't want to hear what's your feeling on how this works differently with George than you've done it in the past?

Yeah, I think the feedback is well received. And then I inspect what I expect and see follow through, right? Because George actually does love digging into the details, following through, whether it's a two or three week long kind of initiative, or if it's a big change that we're taking long term. And we have had some changes, obviously, with George's arrival. We've really turned over almost the entire leadership team in the last four months. So it's an exciting time for us, really topgrading the team in order to go to the next level. So I think that drives a lot of engagement. But it causes us to have a lot of hard conversations, right? Because we don't want turnover if we don't need turnover. And I think a big difference is just George's ability to sort of cut through the BS and see what's really there with a person or a situation and then be able to wrap his arms around it and make a change and move forward.

So you talk about, you know, kind of turnover in the leadership team level, you know, and then I'm sure there's other, you know, areas of the organization. What's been When you think about the focus for you, the visionary, so George comes on, you know, kind of in your short list of things that you wanted him to come help with or come fix, what was really the top of the list? What was the first things like, man, we got to go after this. Not specifically, but just kind of in a categorical description.

Yeah. Probably the biggest thing is just revenue conversion, right? Which is a lot of moving pieces work together with sales, our customers, because we're, you know, we're direct to consumer company. And yet we're manufacturing, yet we're retail, we have to do marketing. We have stores, right? There's a lot of moving parts and making sure those come together in such a way we meet our revenue targets, sorting out the really, you know, unnecessary processes that are keeping us from getting there, simplifying, streamlining, all those good things. And then the second item is just really ensuring that we have probably the biggest challenge right off the bat was ensuring that we have the right person and the right seat to every single one of George's direct reports. right? It's incredible to see just earlier today, we were in operational meeting and the amount of issues that come from one person. And especially if you have two people, you know, say sales and ops ahead of sales and ahead of ops or head of accounting and ahead of sales or whatever that may be, you get two functions that are not working together because you have two wrong people in the wrong seats. And so it's extremely impactful. And that's, I think, definitely our primary focus. We've got to, you know, make sure the lights stay on and, you know, deliver revenue every day. But the big thing sort of happening behind the scenes is really ensuring the leadership team is 100% RPRS.

You know, a lot of leaders, including integrators, struggle with that, right? They'll say or people will perceive that they're nice, they're too nice. And so they don't want to bring the thing up. They don't want to deal with the thing, whatever it is, but that's not free. And so when we let the wrong person or a wrong seat continue to be the situation, it generates a lot of friction, a lot of stuff that spins off into the organization that somebody's got to deal with. And so, George, when you think about that, what is it that makes you able to just kind of cut through all that noise and get right to, okay, here's the thing, you know, we got to deal with it, and boom.

Let'S go deal with it. Well, I mean, the first thing comes to my mind, and I've said this to the company as a whole, is, you know, where's your loyalty?

Right?

Yeah.

Is your loyalty to the under. or is your loyalty to the other 99% of the organization? And you need to be loyal to the other 99% of the organization and address that underperformance. Maybe it's a counseling statement, maybe it's a termination, but the rest of the organization is relying upon you as a leader to take action. I don't want to be the bad guy, but when you allow that person to essentially freeload off the rest of the organization, you are being the bad guy. You're just taking the easy path, right? You need to do the harder right and solve that problem for the benefit of the rest of the organization.

How many times have you tried to document processes? Taking months to get it done, carrying process rocks over quarter after quarter, not ever finishing. It can be difficult to get started with step two of the three-step process documenter. So get it started right away with Whale, the go-to platform to identify, document, and package processes all the way to followed by all. Whale, the fastest way to get your team aligned. Start for free at usewhale.io. So when you have to deal with one of your direct reports like that, George, so you're the manager, the direct manager, and somebody on the leadership team, and you've got to come in and, you know, whatever the situation is, you've got to deal with it. certain degree of unpleasantness there. Is that hard for you? Is there hesitation in you? I'm curious.

Only to the extent that, you know, I want to make sure I'm right. The last thing I want to do is be wrong, right? It just, there was an aspect that I didn't get and the person's actually doing a good thing. I just see it for whatever reason. So that'd be the only thing that would give me pause is just to make sure that I'm confident that what I'm doing is the right thing.

Yeah.

So I think that's fascinating. I'm not surprised by your answer, and I've seen it to be true. But, you know, Jonathan, you talked a little bit before about how, you know, things that you don't necessarily like to do, George kind of likes, and that's kind of mind-blowing right? It's kind of like, wow, other people like or even love the things I don't like or maybe even hate doing. And that's cool, and it's absolutely real and true. And so that's part of our job, is to kind of figure out that puzzle so that we get people in seats where they can do that stuff that they love and are great at, and that's really needed by the organization, and it's What you're describing is absolutely critical for an integrator. An integrator is going to set the tone for that for the rest of our organization. If they're not strong in that, then.

Our organization's not going to be strong. Absolutely. I was chuckling when George made the comment, where's your allegiance lie? Because I think I probably had him, he mentioned that in, I think his first day meeting with me on our same page, and I probably had him repeat it 20 times over the next week in various meetings. So, yeah, definitely a huge thing I appreciate about George is, you know, putting EOS talks about this concept, Pat Lanzione talks about this concept, putting the organization above myself. And it's absolutely critical that the integrator does the same and demands the same of his direct reports, her direct reports, and so on and so forth.

So we're four months into your relationship. So what in the early days here, early stages has been easy? What's been easy for you so far?

From my perspective, I just think communication.

Right.

Communicating, George has been great about asking good questions, receiving information, because, you know, visionaries are the world's freaking best at having a very well put together presentation, no rabbit holes. So somehow as a, you know, I'm a bit frustrated about our results as an organization, a little bit frustrated about how many RPRS issues we had, not just on the leadership team, but obviously that's wrong then throughout the organization. And I just think there were meeting this morning. I mean, gosh, I had to probably go down through 32 rabbit holes and 10 different topics. And George just can sit there and take it in and sort of read through all the distraction and noise and get the good he needs out of it to go execute.

Great. And so, George, I mean, what's been easy for you so far in working with Jonathan?

Yeah, well, Jonathan's been tremendously supportive and it's interesting. I mean, Jonathan's been in the business a long time, but his knowledge of the business is incredible. So, not only the organization, the company, but Jonathan's done, if not every position, almost every position in the company. So he has firsthand knowledge of how every role should be done. So that's an incredible resource. And Jonathan has been very generous with his time.

Yeah, having supported that visionary is critical to set the integrator up for success. You bring up another topic there, George, just around experience in the industry. So this is a new industry for you, right? And what are you seeing? What are you feeling about how you sort of climb the hill in terms of getting up to speed enough to be effective in terms of the domain knowledge?

Yeah.

So, you know, I rely on Jonathan absolutely, and then other people within the organization. As an integrator, I will never build a cabin. I will never build a shed. I will never do those things. I don't have to be an expert in those things, but what I have to do is have to make sure that the people that are doing that get the support from their management, get the support from other pieces of the organization. And from that perspective, it's almost industry agnostic. Now, when it comes to pricing, when it comes to a lot of the detail work, obviously it's very industry specific. And that's where, at least at this stage, I rely a great deal on Jonathan and his experience.

So this is a common question among visionaries that are looking for their integrator is, am I searching just in my narrow industry? , is that the only pond I can fish in? Or can I widen my lens and look for folks that are talented outside of my industry? Jonathan, what's your feeling about that?

You know, it's without, before I was introduced to EOS or Culture Index, just to answer, you know, I had the same question. My thought process always ran down the lines of, do I want somebody who's in the industry and therefore going to think like the industry? Because if we're trying to disrupt the industry, be an industry leader, think differently. mmaybe I shouldn't have someone from internally, but it is definitely attractive to not have to teach someone what a shed is or a cabin is or, you know, about the industry landscape. Ultimately for me, it comes down to obviously number one is core values alignment. After that, it's really getting someone who GW sees the seat, right? Really gets once it has the capacity to the job. And obviously through interviews and looking, talking through experience. using Culture Index as sort of a personality, natural personality alignment tool, huge. And then number three, I mean, if I found another George, so to speak, but had industry experience, then I guess that could be an added bonus, but I think it's definitely third on the list, if at all.

So it's nice to have if you can get it, but it's not an essential must have.

Absolutely.

Okay. Interesting. All right. So we talked about kind of what's been easy so far in the first four months, and let's flip that lens. What's been hard? What's been the biggest challenged to getting this relationship effective and where you want it to get for each of you, whoever wants to start. Our results slipped a bit because we.

Were distracted on an acquisition at the same time as we have these RPRS issues ongoing. And so sort of overhauling the car as we're driving down the road, right? I'd say that's definitely the hardest from my perspective, and I'd love to hear George's perspective on this, but at the end of the day, we got to sell, manufacture and install. revenue. And if that doesn't happen, you can build the greatest leadership team in the world. You're not going to live to see the outcome of the results. What's to the right side of the equal sign of having 100% RPRS? And we just backfilled our CFO position last Tuesday. So I mean, that's very, very fresh. So I'm very much looking forward to our next quarterly planning session with a completely brand new leadership team put together besides our head of tech and myself. So look forward to that. I think overhauling that engine while driving down the road is probably the most challenging.

So let's talk about tempo. So I'm curious about things that feel different, that feel, you know, that have changed versus your prior integrated relationship. I wonder if, you know, you talked about how the interview process was brief but intense. So again, a lot of energy units kind of compressed into a smaller amount of time. Do you feel that in general, is that the way that the business feels? Does it feel like, you know, the, we're clicking along at a faster tempo now?

I think definitely our communication, I mean, we're having same page meetings, for example, we're having more same page meetings than my prior integrator and I had, but they're shorter. And there's the exception, we'll go along on one if we're taking a deep dive down into some rabbit hole, but by far and large, a standard same page meeting is a lot shorter than previously. Organizationally, man, we're definitely making changes, right? I mean, George made some hard people calls early on. A couple more happened by themselves because folks saw, in my words, shit's going to get real. So I may as well bounce off the bus before I'm forced to get off the bus. So I definitely think the organization sees that. But the latter part of the question is the organization love that. I'd say some people do, some people don't, right? I mean, some people don't want things to change and they want to just be able to continue to have a red and they can blame it on somebody else. So I would say the appropriate people love it, the appropriate people hate it. Most of those folks have been helped off the bus.

Yeah, there have definitely been a lot of people changes. And honestly, I'm at a point, I think that there are other people changes that need to be made, but I'm at a point where I have to slow down because we're just losing too much institutional knowledge. These are not the best people, but if I let them go to, then there's nobody left in the department that was here before I got here. And we need to have that, you have some bridge for that gap. And I think specifically to our project management department. Right now of the entire department, we have two people left that were here when I got here. And if I had my druthers, it would probably be down to one. But I just can't have that kind of turnover. I need to have somebody who can still know what boards to run and what, how to do things. So, this is an example, branch managers, right? We turned over a branch manager, sales team have a tremendous amount of turnover in sales. Marketing, you know, has been completely revamped. So, it's just, you know, in three and a half months, that's a tremendous amount of change and the organization has to digest it.

Yeah, so you've got all these things that you see, all these things that are kind of blocking you from where you want to go. And so, I'm sure one of your biggest challenges is just prioritizing all that and trying to say, okay, what really is next? We can't do it all, you know, at the snap of a finger. We'll get there. But what's the next thing that's gonna be most impactful for us? Jonathan, I know when you were interviewing George, you're kind of going through that process that you had an opportunity to speak with the visionary that he worked with previously. I'm curious if there was something that he told you that was particularly compelling about why George would be a good fit for you.

Jeff and I, I think, figured out we had a bit in common pretty quickly. That was the week of our snowstorm or ice storm or maybe the week before. But anyways, Jeff, I remember one thing in particular, values was one. But then once we got past values, Jeff was like, the only thing you got to be careful with George is if you look at a mountain and you tell him it's important, he's going to go take the mountain. So make sure, you know, if I put it in my words, don't get down a rabbit hole you don't want solved or that's not truly the most important because in your first few weeks on board, George is going to go and take your direction and go make it happen. So if you don't want that hill taken, then don't say. And I would use as an example for other visionaries who are listening, it's not the case here. But if there's a lot of friends and family inside the organization, right? I tried for 18 months to get my prior integrator to deal with. There was one sibling in the organization and who was not with the organization previously, right? He's not been here forever, never, never. He wasn't an owner, wasn't a partner. wasn't any of that. And it just felt like he always tiptoed around the issue and I just couldn't get him to deal with it. And I said, I'm going to fire him. Your job's at risk if you don't go take care of this issue. And so I think that's a good example of something. If I told George zero nepotism, which I have told him, but zero nepotism, zero favors for friends and family, but really don't actually want that to happen, that'd be a problem, right? Because George is going to go execute on that because that's the culture. those are the orders, that's the objective. And so let's go take the mountain.

So George, let's get inside your brain. What is it when you hear that, and that's probably not any new news to you, what is that inside of you? So how does that play inside your head that manifests itself in that way to the visionary?

Well, from my perspective, right, I do whatever is the right thing, or at least I try to do whatever is in the best interest of the organization. And, you know, I just really need to know from the visionary if there are any boundaries.

Right?

Is there something I can't do? So that's how it translates to me. And throughout my career, I've always had the sense that I can do anything I want as long as I had a business case that supported it. So it's the same thing here, right? So what are my boundaries? Where can't I go? So here are the boundaries and here's.

The massive business objective, whatever that might be, the mountain we're gonna take, the hill we're gonna take. And then within that, you've got the space. We talk about creating the space for our leaders. We create the space for you to do what you're made to do. so to that end, we gotta make sure that we're on the same page about what that mountain is, right? Which you guys spend a lot of time talking about. So that's very cool. So we have, you know, listened to this, we've got a lot of visionaries and integrators that maybe they just found out that's who they are. Maybe they are just getting started. Maybe they have been in a visionary integrated relationship for a really long time. And so they're all listening to this, they're learning kind of taking the nuggets that they can glean from your journey, from your experience. So if you had an opportunity to sit down and talk to one of them in a coffee shop and go, okay, Here's the thing that really helped us. Here's the thing that really helped me. Here's the thing that seemed to really launch us forward. What would that be? Jonathan, you look like you've got one.

Yeah, that's an easy one for me. That is to make sure you don't fall into a cultural trap or a nice guy trap or a visionary trap if you're the visionary. And look, there's one freaking person in your life inside the organization you have to make sure is the right person. and that's the integrator. And you have to be brutally honest with it and make 100% sure that that is the right person. My last integrator, I loved him. He was a very nice guy, great values. He was a leader, but there's one issue that was just a challenge and that is ultimately the misfit was not a hand in glove fit. And so guess what? When it came to holding the leadership team accountable, and really having a good rhythm on operational reviews and one-on-ones. And if it came down to writing someone up and that type of thing, all things that I don't enjoy doing, he didn't either enjoy doing them. And so that's a really big problem. Now you just have sort of two visionaries. So it's the one relationship that I simply cannot afford to screw up. Right? It's the one person that has to be right person, right seat. 'cause whatever you have there, it will go down to the rest of the body from there.

Quick follow on question on that, Jonathan. So, visionaries are listening. Some of them, maybe they have an integrator that's the wrong integrator. Some of them, maybe they're afraid. Some of them, maybe they tried one, it didn't work. I've talked to some visionaries that have took them multiple integrators before they got it right. So, you had one that wasn't the right answer, and so you immediately back in the pool and go again. Was that frustrating were you? Was there any, Part of you that said, you know what, maybe this thing doesn't work. Maybe I should just kind of give up on this.

How did you process that in your own mind? Yeah, I mean, look, I think any visionary is going to have those thoughts, right? Because it's, if you have the wrong visionary and therefore execution and accountability is not happening, at least you're not paying someone, right? That's supposed to be doing that. But for me, it was easy to think back to just look, go back to our vision and traction organizer, especially on the vision side, where do I want to be spending my time? Where are we going as an organization? And if we're going to go there, I can't be in both seats. It's that simple. And so then it's a very, very short term answer. And frankly, in my situation, I could have probably jumped in for six months and gotten a few things straightened back out, some basics, and then go again. But then I'm like, now I'm gonna have to teach somebody and they didn't build it and fix the problem. So I just chose to jump back in right away because I want our new integrator, I want George to get in, see those problems and fix them. 'Cause he now has ownership of that instead of, Hey, here's the, you know, here's the ship and it's not real messy and it's working pretty good. Don't screw it up, right? Instead, no, let's get in and really look at the recipe, make sure it's right. Look at the systems and processes. Love that. And so I think very simply is think about what, if I was at a coffee shop with another visionary, think about what your real strengths are, what makes you come alive, what do you love doing? What do you think you could do until you're 90? and if those are integrator things, then, well, maybe you're an integrator, but more than likely it's either integrator or it's visionary and figure out which one that.

Is and then go do that. Love it. Love it. George, what about for you? You're sitting there, you're talking to somebody that's listening.

What's the nugget of wisdom you have for them? Speaking to a visionary specifically trying to find an integrator, one of the things you would want to look for is somebody who's more task oriented than people oriented because the job is holding people accountable.

Right?

Setting standards and enforcing those standards, holding people accountable. So you need to be very numbers focused, task focused, and people, they're important to the organization, but at the end of the day, the organization comes first. To be a good integrator, at least in my mind, you've got to have that orientation.

So you're in this craft of the seat. So Jonathan as a visionary, George as an integrator, Jonathan, what do you do to continue to grow.

So last week, I attended two different conferences as an example, you know, networking with other retailers, some international, some local, and really trying to figure out how best as a visionary can I impact a retail organization, right? Or a manufacturing organization. And then I attended a leadership conference where we had the likes of Pat Lencioni and Malcolm Gladwell and a lot of great leadership minds, some CEOs sharing their experiences, some folks like Pat who just are the absolute world's absolute best at Team Health. And so sitting there, that's what I do. That kind of thing, reading books, some podcasts, since we've chose to use EOS, make sure I'm playing by the rules, right? As George spoke about, make sure I'm.

Compartmentalizing and so on and so forth. I'm starting to get suspicious that you just look at where Pat Lencioni is.

Going to go talk and you go to that. well, I go to a picture because he's there every year, so. Sort of.

Right. Okay, so, George, what about you? So how do you continue to master your craft as an integrator?

Yeah.

Well, for me, my Fascination has always been history. I like to read, study historical figures. My two favorites, you know, Napoleon and Patton. So, yeah, I'll read anything I can on them, study that. That's my inspiration, so to speak.

Love it, love it. All right, so we're coming to the end here. If folks want to learn more about your business or try to get in touch or learn more about either one of you, what's the best way for them to reach out?

For the company, it's ulrichlifestyle.com, that's U-L-R-I-C-H lifestyle.com, and to get in touch with me directly if you wanted to, I mean, through LinkedIn.

George?

LinkedIn, absolutely.

Okay, perfect. All right, well, I am so grateful to both of you for taking a little time out of your day to just come spend with us I know that someone listening has learned something helpful from listening to your experience, listening to your journey. That'll help them get there, you know, a little bit faster or maybe with a little bit less pain along the way. So I'm super grateful to both of you for that and to our listeners. I appreciate to you for taking your time to listen to our conversation today and be a fly on the wall. And hopefully you got something helpful that can move you forward. And if you have, if you like this podcast and it's doing something for you, if you take a second, whatever platform you list on, just leave us a review that helps other folks find out about it, and it may be.

Helpful to them as well. Hey, everybody.

Okay, so great conversation with Jonathan and George, and hopefully you enjoyed that as much as I did. And you learned some things now. I want to let's go to the Rocket Fuel Toolbox and let's anchor that conversation in the tools. So the first tool that really jumps out for me is the Crystallizer, the Crystallizer assessment that gives you a sense of how much visionary you are, how much integrator you are, and the connector score that comes along with that, that helps you look at how much gap or overlap there is in your particular two-piece puzzle. So again, think of the two pieces coming together, and if we're different, so we're complementary, so we just kind of fit together perfectly, that's what we're looking for. Between the two of us, we cover all the stuff, we don't have any big gaps, and we don't have an excessive amount of overlap. You heard Jonathan talk about in his previous integrator They were basically a lot the same. So they had a tremendous amount of overlap and that left a lot of gaps. So a lot of things that we need out of a powerful visionary integrator duo were frankly just missing in that relationship. And so Jonathan felt like he had to keep jumping in to take care of those things that neither one of them was naturally wired to do. So again, a really important part of your process to take those assessments and use that crystallizer and the connector score, look at that gap and overlap and make sure that we really fit together in a complementary way. Second tool that I want to talk about is really, it's the same page meeting in the context of a new Visionary integrator Duo. So George's prior Visionary said to Jonathan, look, be careful, because if you tell him to go take that hill, he's gonna go take that hill. So be sure you're really clear on what you want, and you're aligned on the same page about it. So as George expressed it from his mind, he just needs to know what the boundaries are. Tell me where the fences are. Tell me where I can't go. And tell me what this big thing is that you're after. And then give me the space, give me the freedom to really unleash my capability and solve the problems and do the things that I need to do to be able to organize everything and go make that happen and go take that hill. So that's a powerful capability of an integrator. Again, if we use the discipline of our tools, the same page meeting in particular, to make sure we're crystal clear, we're aligned, and we we really want to go after that hill, then an integrator that's wired like that can give us a better chance than anybody of making it happen. Okay, so hopefully you enjoyed the episode today. I really appreciate you taking the time to listen. And until next time, go rocket. you cannot build a great business on multiple operating systems. You must choose one. EOS One is the simple to use software exclusively from the makers of EOS. By bringing everything EOS into one place, EOS One allows you to run better meetings, access the foundational tools faster, and build a more accountable team. One vision, one system, one team. Start your 30-day free trial of EOS One today at eosone.com.