https://www.listennotes.com/e/fcaa95b53e314f8cbfd871f9f272300d

We communicate a ton all the time. And so I can say anything in the world to her and she can say anything in the world to me. And no matter where we are, if one's on the left hand, one's on the right hand, one's up, one's down, we always end up in the middle together. So we've worked on that communication for years. And that is what I really feel is like our superpower that we do really well is like, I can sense her and she can sense me and we work it out.

Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Rocket Fuel podcast, where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create Rocket Fuel. I'm your host, Mark C. Winters, co-author of Rocket Fuel and an expert EOS Implementer. Today, I'm thrilled to be talking with Jennifer Maker and Grandy Washington at Jennifer Maker, a DIY craft company with a channel that has reached a million subscribers and a blog that boasts 25 million subscribers. Jennifer is the CEO, creative director, and visionary for the craft company she started in 2016 to help others craft a life they love. Grandy is the Chief Operating Officer and Integrator, acting as both the face of accountability and the company's biggest cheerleader. In this episode, we'll hear Jennifer and Grandy discuss how they balance control in the relationship and the ways communication influences their partnership and business growth. We're joining the conversation hearing Jennifer share the moment she knew that she needed an Integrator to support her vision. Here we go.

So.

My growth was very fast and I found myself in a position of needing help but not wanting to get help. I'd had a business before. I struggled with having a team. But like as the summer drew on, I'm like, this is not going to work. I'm unhappy. So I started looking for what I told the world was an assistant, but I'd already read Traction. so I knew what I really needed was an integrator, that kind of person who could actually help me grow a team because I knew I struggled with that specifically. I actually asked my community. So that's where I found my integrators from my community. And I said, I'm looking for an assistant. But what the world didn't know is I was looking for an integrator or someone that can grow into that position. So I did, you know, test to kind of like get an idea of what people were, not just their skills. Could they answer my emails? Sure. But could they actually Did they have the kind of mindset that I needed to help me build a team and help me grow? So I actually got like 50 applications in 24 hours. Wow. Which, and I had to close the applications really quickly. So that was a really short window to apply. But of all of the applicants, Grandi stood out as being the kind of person I thought that I could work with. And she liked the things I didn't like to do, which was really a big deal. And so I hired her in October of 2019 or right?

Something like that.

I know it's hard to remember the dates. So I hired her as my assistant. And then I would say it was like four to five months later. I said, Hey, would you like to keep doing what you're doing and, you know, do customer service? Or would you like to be my operations manager? And she, which of course is the beginning of an integrator operations. And she chose that path, which is what I was hoping she'd say. and here we are today, a Visionary Integrator Duo.

So, Grandy, let's hear your experience of all this. So you get this email or this posting or whatever it is that kind of says that Jennifer's looking for somebody to help, and you immediately thought what?

I dove over my desk and I shut the door in the office of where I was working at the time, and I just went like crazy on the application. I was so excited. I was like, I'm getting this job. I'm going to work for Jennifer Maker. Oh my God, it's going to be awesome. And I did. So it was like I still pinched myself today, but I was like, I have to tell her all the stuff that I can do because I know she's looking for all of this because I worked in HR, I worked in accounting, I've been a recruiter. So I knew and I also knew her brand and like my husband had bought me my first cricket for Christmas. so it was huge. So like we were all into this and had followed. So I knew kind of what she was looking for and yeah, I was so excited.

I can just see and feel the excitement when you talk about that. So I'm curious how much of the excitement was the opportunity to work with Jennifer and kind of the business that you're in versus the excitement about having that kind of a role, having that kind of responsibility.

Well, I didn't know her. trajectory for me, but we just worked really well together. And I learned a lot. I learned what she was looking for. And one of the things in my, like, personal life that I was looking for in a job, like, with longevity, was being able to be home with my kids and kind of help around with that. And so that was super important to me, and this allowed me to do that. And, I mean, it's like, is it really work if you know, like your dream. So it was kind of everything at one time. So everything that I had done every little bit in my life of every crazy, random, weird job just connects in this one, which is what makes it so amazing.

So Jennifer, you talked about how Grandi kind of liked to do the things that you didn't like to do. What are some examples of that?

Well, as I mentioned, I'm not very good at managing a team. I tried it in the past. didn't enjoy it and also didn't do a good job at it. I didn't have the capacity, capabilities to do it. So that was a big one that I asked about. I also asked about follow through, getting things done.

Right.

I have been in both the Visionary and an integrated role in my life.

Right.

So I can get things done. But, like, what I really like is the big idea, the big vision. Right. And guiding us. to that. I don't necessarily like to do all the work. I do work, I do work a lot, but all that work means I can't do all the other things that I really like to do. So I was looking for things like that, a person who could take action on what I needed to get done, right? Not just do whatever I said to specifically, but actually be able to run with it.

So Grandy, talk about that from your side. So what was kind of the first thing that you wanted to be sure you were taken off of Jennifer's plate that she needed help with? What did you see when you showed up that was kind of the most obvious things?

Well, the first thing was sitting back and watching and learning and really understanding what she wants versus what I thought that she needed. I did emails. I learned everything from the ground up and from the start. So as we grew the team, I was able to say, this is what we want. And I know we can do it because I've done it. I've actually been in all of these jobs. So it was just us. But I would start over time and still even five years later, I'm still kind of going, well, can I take this off your plate? Let's take this off your plate. So I would take little bitty things and it's getting her to let go of the vine sometimes and her getting me to let go of the vine sometimes. It works really well. We have a good partnership with that. But I think it was just time and watching and observation and going, I can do that. She's taught me this. And then I go and teach somebody else that.

Jenniffer, have you found it difficult to let go of things?

Oh, very extremely. I'm like a huge control freak.

Really? What's that about? Tell me more about that.

And I have a very clear vision of how everything to be done. It's very clear to me. And so I do things one way, but the rest of the world doesn't necessarily.

Right.

And I can even teach how to do it, but that doesn't mean that that's going to work that way. So, yeah, this is an ongoing Challenge for me to let go of things and to allow others to do them and for others to learn and grow.

When we wrote Rocket Fuel, we talked to a lot of duos and a lot of visionaries. And one of my thoughts coming into the project was that visionaries were naturally about control. They really wanted to have control of things. What I found through many conversations was it most commonly it wasn't really about control, it was about trust. and there's something in their past that was not a good experience where they trusted somebody to take care of something that was important to them and they didn't do a very good job of it and that was painful for them. So when you hear that context, does your dynamic feel like a trust thing or is it a control thing? What is it for you?

So for me, I'm controlling because I didn't have it done properly in the past. So it's absolutely a reaction to Everything that's ever happened, but I continue to struggle with this. So what I'm discovering with having an integrator and working with Grandy is that as we move along this path, I can let go of things. They do get done. Yes, we have like, you know, bumps in our journey, right? We have issues, but then we recover, we find the right person in the right seat and things improve. and so I'm getting to the point where I agree with you. I don't want to have control of all the things. So I'm getting to a place of trusting more than I was before. Absolutely.

Do you feel like you're growing a new muscle?

Yes, because that's not really who I am, right? So I'm not, I actually am naturally trusting, but then, you know, of course it all falls flat. So, yeah, this is something that you have to learn to do. So I am learning. And then of course it fails. And then I'm like, okay, well I was right. I shouldn't have let go of this. But that's not, I cannot move forward. I cannot grow. I cannot scale my business if I am doing all the things. This is the simple truth of the matter. And so I have to learn how to do this. And I have to trust Grandi to make it happen. And I have to trust the people that she finds to do it and all those sorts of things.

So Grandi, when you see Jennifer kind of struggling with this, right? So I'm sure some things are more easy for her and she's probably getting a lot better over time, but I'm sure, you know, it's still the struggle monkey shows up from time to time. When you see that, what do you do to try to help Jennifer let go of something that you feel it's important that she let go of?

I'm getting really good at this, actually. I've gotten a lot better at this recently. I stop, I step back, I pull myself out of it and I go, okay, what is she thinking and what is she feeling right now and what's the real issue? And I'll sometimes I'll ask her, I'm like, I just did this the other day. I was like, are you okay?

What?

I'm sensing this. What can I do to help you? Where can I be the most help? And I just ask her. I mean, we, we communicate a ton all the time. And so I can say anything in the world to her, and she can say anything in the world to me. And no matter where we are, if ones on the left hand, ones on the right hand, ones up, ones down. We always end up in the middle together. So we've worked on that communication for years. And that is what I really feel is like our superpower that we do really well is like, I can sense her and she can sense me and we work it out.

So. Great. So I noticed on your Visionary Integrator scores that your Visionary scores are very close. In fact, they may be exactly the same. and so sometimes that's a little bit of a tell for me that, you know, there may be, you know, a lot of overlap in the duo. Other times it's an indicator that, you know what? They can communicate really well because, you know, when Jennifer comes up with something, Grandy can interpret it and then she can go kind of make it happen. Talk to me about both of those sides, right? So how do you think that kind of helps you sync up? And how do you think, are there things where it's kind of like, you know what? We are similar on some things and we do maybe overlap on some things. Are there things you overlap on?

Yeah, I mean, in the beginning, I mean, like, so I would say that in my previous business, I was doing both things, like many people are before they start doing this, right? I mean, it was really the visionary, but I was also making things actually happen. Like, so my other half, that didn't work. So when we started, there was that struggle. I had to learn how to, like, let go of, like, trying to make it work, right? I feel like Grandi gets the vision thing. Yes. so she understands that there's a really big idea here and that we're going, like, she gets the big idea for sure. And she's not a person who's so focused on details that she cannot see the big picture. So I would say that is where we have an overlap. And that is very highly valuable because if I was working with someone who was so focused on just the details and just taking those few things I said and making them happen, We would struggle. We really would because sometimes it's difficult to communicate that, right? She does get it. She does see this big picture that we're, and she can make her own course corrections. She can drive things, especially with the team, to the right outcome even without me being involved because she does get the big picture. So that's what I think. What do you think, Randy?

I knew you were gonna do that. I agree. I agree with you there. Yeah, I do have the big picture of you, which is a good thing. I also have the details.

Is there any specific areas where you feel that kind of fighting for the wheel dynamic? So you overlap and you're both kind of naturally want to do that and it's, you have to stop and clarify who's actually going to own something.

We're a lot better now. I think in the beginning there were more issues, but we're now what so we're at four years about that we've been doing.

Almost five.

Five, okay, four and a half then, yeah. So at this point, I feel like we're doing really well. I know my place. She knows her place. We know our goals, right, and what we're supposed to be doing to get to our goals. And we don't fight for the wheel very often unless it's like a new thing that we haven't explored before. And then she and I just talk about it and we figure it out. It doesn't actually take that long and then we're good to go.

Love that. So Grandy as an integrator, and you started as an assistant, right? You kind of an ops leader and now integrator, so you've kind of evolved and kind of grown in that role. So now you're in this seat and what kind of things do you do intentionally to continue to grow and learn and master your craft as an integrator?

Well, I'm a complete book nerd. And I did the Integrator Mastery class, which was amazing. And you taught, I think it was the last one that you taught too, which was, I consider myself a extremely lucky to have been in that class and I've had my butt kicked ever since, but it's great. The Mastery Forum is awesome. That helps me a lot.

Actually, I get a lot out of that. The Integrator Mastery Forum, talk about that.

And what that does for you.

Well, I love the monthly calls. I get on there and, you know, we're in the beginning. I was like, we're so busy when we have like this crafting business and nobody else does anything like what we do. So there's no way they're going to understand anything that I talk about. Like, I'm never going to be able to contribute to this. and no one is going to understand and think that we have a serious business. But I kind of just sat back and I was like, you know what? I'm still going to go and I'm going to try and I'm just going to put it out there and take what I can get from it. And once I changed that mindset and really just started thinking, okay, well we're all business leaders, we're all sitting in the same seat, we all have visionaries. I get a ton out of it and it's probably the most valuable thing that I do as far as learning how to be a really good integrated. Aside from communicating with Jennifer and us working on us all the time, the calls are great, the in-person is amazing. We'll go in and we'll study the tools and stuff. We'll do a deep dive. And I'm like, well, okay, I already know this tool, but then I come out with eight things that I learned.

So, Mark, you taught her Integrator Mastery class?

I think so. Is that surprising to you, Jennifer?

Did I so Grandy talks about her integrated classes, how I know it. Like, I don't really know the details. I think she came to me at some point and said, Can I do this? And I'm like, yeah, sure, it sounds great. But she will like say, you know, I had this meeting or I had this class or whatever, or I'm learning a lot. But she talks really highly of it. I didn't know that you were the teacher. And I'm just saying, that's really awesome. I, from as the CEO, as the.

Visionary, I hear really good things about it. oh, that's, that's great. I was, I was at my next question, Jennifer, was to you, which is like, you know, Grandy goes off to this integrator mastery forum meeting once a quarter. And then are you ever like, oh, no, she's coming back. She's been to this thing. She's going to have all this new stuff.

No, I am 100% in support of everyone from me to everyone on my team. We have 35 employees, by the way, continuing to grow and develop. I'm like, I consider myself an accidental CEO. This was not my intention when I started Jennifer Maker. at all. It was just to help support my family. It has grown very quickly. So I am learning how to be a CEO, a visionary. Grandy is learning how to be an integrator. And we should always be learning all the time, all the time. So, no, I never am like, oh my gosh, she's gonna come back and she's gonna, also it didn't work that way. She didn't come back and be like, we're gonna make all these changes. It was never like that. She would come back and say, I learned a lot. and I feel really good about it. Or she would bring it up in conversation to say, I learned how to deal with this situation or something in the mastery class, and I can apply what I learned in this. So I've actually seen a lot of growth in Grandy. I don't think I've ever, like, said that to her, but a lot of growth, especially since she started that class. So that's really good, like, professional growth.

So I think very cool. Well, I love hearing that. How many times have you tried to document processes taking months to get it done, carrying process rocks over quarter after quarter, not ever finishing? It can be difficult to get started with step two of the three-step process documenter. So get started right away with whale, the go-to platform to identify, document and package processes all the way to followed by all. Whale, the fastest way to get your team aligned. Start for free at usewhale.io. So you talked about how you're sort of an accidental visionary. You didn't intend to, you're just trying to kind of support your family, do your thing, and now this thing's got 25 million subscribers, a million folks on the YouTube channel. So what in the world is your secret? I mean, how do you do that? How do you generate so much explosive growth in a community of interest around what you do?

I believe really strongly in what I do. I love what I do. I'm very enthusiastic. I think loving what you do has a big, big role in your ability to grow and thrive. I always have, I've always done that. But with Jennifer Maker, like I like to say there's magic here because it feels like there's magic. It truly does. We have bad days just like everybody else, right? But there's something really special about what we're doing. And I don't think that I would have come as far as I am now without GrAndy's help as my integrator. Like the two of us, I really feel like this having a visionary and an integrator really is propelling us to reach greater heights because on my own, I would have tried to do everything by myself. 'cause that's kind of who I am, right? And I wouldn't have been able to reach as far or scale or do as much without that. So it's a really big deal. And I'm really grateful that I learned about traction early on so that I could look for that in the first place.

Love that. Love that. So our listeners are hearing this story and they're like, well, this all just sounds really good. And so that leads me to my next question, which is, all right, what's not, what's not so good? What do you guys struggle with? How does conflict work in your relationship? So, Grandy, if you need to tell Jennifer something that she doesn't want to hear.

I just tell her. And I say, I have this little quote that I'll like put, so we do everything on Slack. And I will tell her, I'll be like straight out, and then I'll put in parentheses, said with love and a little heart. But I mean, it causes more problems if we don't talk. And we don't have that conflict. And if either one of us is feeling some sort of way or we've had this happen recently where we were both feeling exactly the same way and we didn't know. And so we didn't tell each other how we were feeling because we didn't want the other one to feel bad or like be influenced by our thought. And we learned, we learned the lesson. So, I mean, whether it's hard or what, we just, we do it.

Yeah, we're an almost 100% virtual company. So all of our communication, aside from like a occasional Zoom meeting, is text-based on Slack, right? So this is important to know about us. And so Granny and I are in communication all the time. Where there's always a basically a dialogue between us constantly and we talk all the time. And so when there is a conflict, like her opinion is she has a strong opinion over here and mine's over here, right? And we're at the opposite ends. We just sit there and we talk and we share our feelings and thoughts about it. And eventually we get to a point somewhere, a compromise in the middle, because this is how all relationships work. And we understand where the other person's coming from and we reach that middle ground. It's, we've never, I think one time, one time in this whole time that we've been together, did we have a Where we, that night we logged off or what we don't even, I don't even log off. It's always on Slack. We went the night over and we were probably mad at each other. But the next day we resolved it. So this is my memory of it. And that's only one time that I can think of. Like, this is not something that even happens very often. But we still figured it out. I mean, we don't really have a lot of problems, actually. We don't have a lot of conflict. We don't have a lot of issues. We work really well together.

What is the toughest thing? What is the, and it's all relative, right? So you've got some things that are easy and some things that are harder. And, you know, some people's barometer is up high, some is down low. So on your barometer, wherever it is, what's the toughest thing, the thing that you still have to work the hardest at?

I would say maybe it's me letting go, continuing to let go.

Okay.

It's tough. I have a really high standard for pretty much everything, right? And so when that standard is not met, I will instantly want to like pull back control and get upset generally, right? And be frustrated and stressed. And I think that's hard for Grandy. You know, she's trying to like make this work and here I am all stressed out about something not being right and wanting to take back control or just like, you know, and I think that's probably it. But we've also made so much progress there too. But that might also be the thing we always struggle with. I'm not sure. And that's a lot to do with me. I get in our way more often than not.

There's some self-awareness, right? So that's good. So talk to me about your same page meeting. So how often, how long, where do you do them?

We don't have a same page meeting.

Oh, come on.

Our conversation is just ongoing. We're constantly talking to each other.

We had one after the conference.

We did.

I made her go into one. It was half a day long.

Okay, Jennifer, you forgot the half a day long one.

Was it really long? I don't remember that part. Is it we're not doing a same, like a meeting? Yeah. Like, okay, so something you should understand about me that is a quirk about me is I'm very bad with structure. Very, very bad. And I will rebel and fight against any structure, like even meetings.

Right.

So this is part of my process too. This is part of who I am and how I'm able for this magic to even happen. So that's a challenge of Grandy's because there needs to be structure on a team. This is how this works. So we don't have a same page meeting. We talk in Slack and it is working for us.

Yeah, we don't call it a meeting because then, you know, she won't want to do it sometimes. But so what I do is I just, I'll give her a list and I'll just, like, I'll take my same page list that I have and I'll just start shooting stuff at her and I'll number it. and I'll put it each in its own so we have the conversations going on and I'm like, ha ha, now I got it, you know. And we do have like so much going on that it's a much better use of our time and we're much more productive when we can do this our own way. And we still, I mean, we still end up with same page, we end up with everything answered, we're continuing to move forward, we are getting what we need in our own way. which is really cool.

I noticed that one of the superpowers of a great integrator is that they know how to sort of manage their visionary in terms of being effective, doing what they need to do, talking about something they need to talk about, getting aligned, you know, whatever it might be. So some people, you know, they literally, I had one person tell me about, well, we always do that over dinner and we have a drink and then about halfway through our entree, that's when I'll pull this out and we'll talk about that. And then it was kind of like, just a whole formula for how it worked best for them to be able to have the discussions that they needed to have effectively. So that sounds like you're showing some of that there, Grandy. So I appreciate that. All right, let's play future for a second. So when you look at this relationship that's been growing for a number of years and look forward, you know, let's say five plus years into the future, how does your Visionary integrated relationship look then? That's different from how it looks now.

I'm not sure. Hopefully it's still working as well. More things off Grandy's plate too. I see that so that she can be focused solely on her integrator activities. Both of us are still at the stage where we're multiple seats, right? So that's one thing I see, right? So that we're both really focused. Me, I'm the visionary. She's the integrator and there's no extra little fingers and pies. It's mostly what I see. What do you see, Grandy?

Yeah, I'm pretty much the same because, I mean, we've done a really good job becoming a strong pair already. So, I mean, we're not perfect, obviously, and we never will be. And, you know, conflict is healthy because we work out issues. But, yeah, I think that we are just in our own seats and doing really well as a CEO and a COO and, you know, we're Visionary integrator, and we're Just really strong with that and just the trajectory of the company continues upward. So, and everybody, almost everybody in the world knows Jennifer Maker. That's where we are in five years.

Everyone in the world.

So that is fantastic. So as you know, listening to this show, we've got visionaries and integrators that are somewhere from they just found out that's who they are to maybe they just got connected to maybe they've been in their relationship for a long time. and this is all about helping them sort of be a fly on the wall for the conversations with somebody else who's doing the kind of stuff that they're doing and picking up something that they can learn that might be helpful for them. So if you had a chance to sit down in a coffee shop with one of those folks and go, you know what? This is the thing. This is the thing that really helped me, really helped us, really jumped us forward in terms of our Visionary integrated relationship. What would that be? I see you both nodding your head, so one of you can pick it up. But what would that thing be that you would share with that person in the coffee shop?

I think that it is having really strong, frequent communication. That is the thing for me personally that makes a difference. Like, I don't feel like I'm ever out of touch with Granny, unless, of course, she's on vacation or something. Right. So she's there, and it's not like I'm, like, texting her at midnight or something. granted, I'm sure I have sent messages at midnight, but that's not what I meant. What I meant is we're just always talking. It's like one long conversation that doesn't start. We pick up the next day and continue it. And to me, communication is really, really, really important. Like, we know where we are. We're basically always on the same page because we're always talking to each other, so we always know we're not, like, going off in different directions and there's no communication, so. that's what I would say is really, really, really strong communication, whatever that means to you, because it might be different. Some people might need to meet in the coffee shop every day or every morning before they start work, or you might be like me. And it is okay to have a virtual company where you live in totally different states, but you're talking, you know, in the manner that works for you. And in my case, it is through text messages on Slack, not on a phone. I wouldn't recommend that.

Everybody's got a little different sensitivity there. Grandy, what about you?

I agree with that. I definitely agree with the text messages because we can both go back and read them and refer and remember. But one big thing that I think also with communication is you need to know your person. So if I didn't like take the time to really know Jennifer and how she works, what works for her, what doesn't, what sets her off, what doesn't, what she's looking for, what's important to her, if none of that was important to me, then we would fail. And vice versa, like she knows me exactly the same way and she knows what works for me, what doesn't, what drives me, what doesn't. I think that that is a really strong thing because we've both taken the time to know the person and to communicate. And if you really want to succeed, especially as a business leader and grow your business, you need to know the other piece to your puzzle.

So I think super important both. We got to communicate all the time. We got to know each other. that's keys to success. So that's perfect. All right, so we're coming to the end of our time. Folks have heard something helpful from you. They want to learn more about your business. They want to learn more about either one of you. We'll put any details in the show notes, but what's the best way for.

Them to reach out? Come to jennifermaker.com, join any of our communities on Facebook or YouTube or TikTok, Instagram, and then just talk to us. We're there. I'm on all of those places. Grandy is too. Our entire team is. That's the best way to reach out to us, is to find us and come say hi. We love community.

Perfect. Love that. And you can be part of the journey from 25 to 100 million.

Yes. Yes.

Right?

Very cool. Well, Grandy and Jennifer, I can't tell you enough how grateful I am for you taking a little bit of your time to hang out with us today and share some of your experience, some of your story. I know that somebody listening has gotten something helpful from that. And that's what this is all about. And to our listeners, you folks listening, hopefully you're one of the ones that got something helpful from this that helps you, you know, get there a little bit more quickly or maybe get there with a little bit less pain and frustration along the way. And if you're liking what you're hearing and this is helpful for you, I encourage you to whatever platform you listen on, just leave us some kind of review that helps other people find out about our podcast and hopefully hopefully we can be of some help to them as well. Hey, everybody. Hope you really enjoyed our interview with Jennifer and Grandy. Lots of good stuff there, lots of nuggets. Hopefully you found something that helped you. Now I want to bring it back to the rocket fuel toolbox and really always anchor these conversations in our tools. And so the first one that comes to mind for me here is really it's the crystallizer score. And along with that, what we call the connector score. So they talked about being complementary. So the things that Jennifer doesn't like, Grandy does like. When I look at their scores, one of the things I saw was the level was really similar. So the numbers themselves were actually really similar. But remember, those numbers are made up of 40 different components. So you really need to take the next step, which is the connector score and dive in and look at how many of those things you score the same on versus the things that you score differently on. That creates what we call our gap score, which are things that may be missing entirely from your duo or our overlap score, which are the things that you're both really strong at, right? That you may want to tend to fight for the wheel at that's where my questions about that were coming from. So that level of understanding can be the difference between a duo that's all jacked up because they have a huge gap or a huge overlap, or a duo that is actually complimentary because the things that they're different in, even though the totals are the same, they actually line up and are complimentary and help each other be more effective. Okay. So that's tool one for this episode. The next tool I want to talk to you about is the wish list. You heard GrAndy talking about how do I figure out what's next? I'm always talking to her about what's next that I can kind of take off of her plate. two tools that can really help her do that. One is the wish list. So we get the Visionary to sit down and basically do a brain dump of all the stuff they wish were true, all the stuff they wish was different, all the stuff that they wish could be taken off their plate. And then they sync with the integrator and really go through that list. And the integrator helps compartmentalize those things into, you know, is this something for the VTO? Is this something for maybe it should be a goal for this year? Is this something it should be a rock for this quarter? Is this something that's an issue that we should be talking about right now? They get them in the compartment that helps them focus. We actually can work on them and get them done. Helps the visionary know that actually this idea hasn't been lost. It's out there. We'll work on it when it's the most impactful thing to work on. But dumping that wish list and using that as a tool to help you get aligned, get on the same page and begin to make progress towards getting things off that visionary's plate is super helpful hand in hand with that. The delegate and elevate tool. So think about the delegate and elevate tool as a simple two by two matrix. Yeah, one matrix is looking at how much joy you find in something, some things you love, some things you hate. The other axis is our level of competence in those things. Some things are absolutely great at, some things we're terrible at, and we're a hack, right? And so we want to be spending our time in that quadrant of the matrix of the things we really love and we're really great at, right? The more we can push ourselves into that quadrant, the better we'll be. And then the things in those lower quadrants that, you know, we don't love, they actually kind of suck the life force out of us. And a lot of those we're not even great at anyway. Those are the things we're looking to delegate. So if there's things like that that your visionary is working on, and you heard Jennifer talking to Grandy as well about let's get things off Grandy's plate because, you know, the visionary starts a lot of times as the bottleneck. And then as things come off their plate, guess what? That bottleneck moves somewhere else. And a lot of times it's the integrator. So don't let that happen. We got to keep moving things, delegating and elevating. So we're spending our times working on those things that really only we can do in the business, frankly, really needs us to do. So that's the second tool for this time. And the third tool I want to touch on is the same page meeting. So they talked about how in their virtual world, they have kind of this ongoing conversation that never really stops. and while that's important, it reminds me of the kind of conversations I hear visionaries and integrators talk about that are in an office together in close proximity. So they see each other. They're talking all the time. They're always at the water cooler. They're always outside the door. Sometimes they may be across the desk from each other. They're just always kind of talking, and that's fine. That's great. But it tends to be a different conversation than you will have when you have an intentional time. that you've set aside to make sure you get on the same page about the big things, the things that you can see, you know what, it feels like we're getting off the same page on this, or here's something new that's coming down, and I'm concerned that we might end up not being on the same page on that, or here's something that we're going to take into our leadership team meeting, and I want to be sure that we're on the same page about it before we get in there, because I don't want us to be arguing either side of it in there and kind of fighting in front of the kids. Let's get aligned as a visionary integrator duo. So having that dedicated time, if you remember, the prescription is at least once a month for as long as it needs to be, all those issues of things that we are afraid we might get off the same page on talk them through and get aligned. And you lock yourselves in that room together until we're 100% on the same page. And then we come out locked arm in arm and show a united front to the rest of the team. So that's what that same page meeting discipline is all about. And that is one of the root causes of issues when somebody's not really committed to that discipline of having those same page meetings to make sure we stay on the same page. So that's tool time for this episode. I hope you got something helpful for you. Thanks for listening. And until next time, go rocket. You cannot build a great business on multiple operating systems. you must choose one. EOS One is the simple-to-use software exclusively from the makers of EOS. By bringing everything EOS into one place, EOS One allows you to run better meetings, access the foundational tools faster, and build a more accountable team. One vision, one system, one team. Start your 30-day free trial of EOS One today at http://www.us1.com.