Permission to be Dangerous | Pat Gillespie & Rachel Michaud

All of these conversations that are deemed challenging or hard now are looked at as, let's have some hard conversations. Let's have some challenging things. That's how we grow. And it's not a slam on your team or your department, but hey, if we're overwhelmed, it's time to add more people. It's time to look for help. And I think it was hard to have those conversations early in our game in eos. And right now I don't think we look forward to hard conversations, but they're much more open and we look at them. I look at them totally differently than we did in the first couple years and we've been able to grow exponentially because of those hard conversations.

Hey everybody, this is Mark C. Winners, co author of Rocket Fuel and expert EOS implementer. Welcome to the Rocket Fuel podcast where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create what we call Rocket Fuel. Today I'm excited to welcome Pat Gillespie and Rachel Michaud from Gillespie Group to the show. Pat and Rachel have been working together for 25 years and have been running on EOS for the past seven. During this time, they have seen their business, their team, and their visionary integrator relationship launch to new heights. You'll even hear Pat reflect on the freedom to be dangerous that EOS has given his company. In this episode, Pat and Rachel elaborate on how to practice vulnerability, embrace hard confidence conversations, and set intentional goals with your visionary or integrator. We're going to start the show where Pat and Rachel share how they met and became a visionary integrator duo. Here we go.

We've been in business about 25 years and I think it was about 22 years ago, 23 years ago, that I met Rachel Young in business, thriving, growing, very aspirational. To be big and to do all kinds of crazy things that I didn't even know what we were capable of doing. Ran into Rachel. We build apartments at that time for a living and we needed someone to manage them. Rachel worked for a management company and was tasked with saying, hey, we're going to manage this guy's properties. And we met probably three or four times different sales calls and I was very impressed with her and what she was able to do and the way she was able to communicate and just kind of hit it off. And I don't think we ever did management business together, but just, you know, she was with another company and a go getter and we Were, you know, thriving and growing and just the personalities really clicked. And from there we kind of joined forces and became a dangerous team.

Nice. And what year was that that you actually joined forces?

Do you remember, Rachel?

I do. It was 1998.

1998. Okay. So Rachel, I want to get your perspective on kind of the same thing. So as you kind of come into this.

Yeah. So he see perfect visionary. Right, Right. So, yeah, just like Pat said, I was tasked. I worked for another organization management company and my entire job was business development for them. So I was young, really believing. I. I know I knew exactly what I was doing all the time, of course, and I started to call. I actually went to a planning meeting in Delta called Delta Township, but a township here in the greater Lansing area. And Pat was presenting on a new phase of an apartment community he was gonna be building on the west side of Lansing. And I wrote down his name and I called on him. And to support what he just said, we met a handful of times. An interesting part of the story is that he's right. So I was paid completely on commission on the management contracts that I brought into the organization, and I never did bring a contract into that organization. He and I continued to meet. We started to talk about different areas around the greater Lansing area that needed developing, having some traditional apartment homes in them. I was doing market studies and. And somewhere along the line of maybe a six to nine month time period, we decided not only did we need to break off and start our own management organization, but he also made the decision to enter in at that moment into the for sale market. And we built 48 condominiums. And then I ran the sales of. That was really kind of how we all got started together. And there are what, Pat, three to five of us in totality.

Yeah. So, you know, early on you're doing your own things, you kind of cross paths professionally, become aware of each other a little bit, and then kind of start thinking about the opportunity. So you start the business together right in 98 or whatever that year was. And I mean, at that point we hadn't written Rocket Fuel, so there was no visionary integrator language in the world. I'm assuming that. Well, actually that was predated EOS as well. So when did sort of EOs come into your life? That language and the whole idea of a visionary integrator structure?

Well, it's really interesting. We actually touched on it a little bit this morning as well. At the same time, it was just kind of kismet. I think somebody was reaching out to Pat, sending him the book and saying, you really should look at this. We think your organization should benefit. At the same time, we were actually being pursued by who was now our facilitator. And I had about a 15 minute phone call with Jim Coyle and he said, let me just send you the book and sent it to me. I took it on vacation with my family, read the book. But while I was actually out of the country on vacation, I was skipping, snapping pictures of just different paragraphs, verbiage, how, you know, just the simplicity of moving from an organizational chart to an accountability chart, just, it excited me. I was just like, oh my gosh, Pat, this is what we need. This is perfect. This is how we're going to grow. We need to just, you know, we need to dive into this and figure it out. And Pat said, love it. You know, I love all these snippets you're sending me. Like, let's get together when you get back here. And it started from there. And I think right within a few months of me returning from that vacation, we had made the commitment structurally, but then financially to invest in quarterly sessions. And it's been a game changer for us.

Yeah. So first, you know, Jim Coyle is a great friend and fantastic EOS implementer, so you're fortunate to have him enter your world at that point. Pat, let me get side your head a little bit. So Rachel's on vacation, sending you pictures from this book that she's reading. How is that hitting you at that stage of the game?

So that's not a strange thing to.

Happen, by the way.

So she's always sending ideas, but when she is sending those, they were describing us to a T. Definition of integrator, definition of visionary, how they hold each other accountable, how, you know, you get out, you stay in a silo, you get out of your silo, you hold the team accountable. It was almost liberating to read that because it was us to a T, was our team to a T. And it was, I think we always knew it. If you look back, you say, you know, we played the roles, we played the role of visionary and integrator, just didn't have the verbiage and didn't have the permission to move forward in that cadence. But reading that and seeing that there are other people like us and there are other companies that have the exact same problems and challenges and opportunities, it just basically said the Rocket Fuel book is always a cool title because it put it, you know, like added fuel to our, our whole engine. And Said, it's time to go. It's time. You can take off now. It almost gave us permission to be dangerous and permission to really grow at a quicker pace and have a little more fun doing it. So I was excited about it, and I don't think we wasted any time. I think we signed up Jim Croyle while we were still excited about it and went right to town.

Yeah. So I love hearing you describe it with that language. And what I see in talking to a lot of visionaries and integrators particularly, is sort of this discovery that, oh, wow, there's a name for what I'm doing. There's a name for who I am. And like you said, that sort of gives you permission, sort of frees you up to really lean into that role, put your focus and full attention and energy in that role. And obviously, the combination of the two is what allows that impact to happen. All right, so you've got a language around this structure. You're resonating with it. This feels like who you are. You've got Jim that comes in to kind of help guide you along the journey. So talk about those early days. So you finally now you're really kind of leaning into this visionary and integrator roles as defined. Was it easy? Was it just like, yeah, man, it was just smooth sailing. It just kind of made it go, you know, no trouble, or was it kind of bumpy at first and a little bit of kind of trying to figure out how to make that structure really as powerful as it's intended to.

Be, I would like to think it was smooth sailing, but it was a little. I would. We came in with excitement, and we came in, and Jim is unbelievable at explaining it and keeping you in line. But as the visionary, for everyone to be restricted to only three to five rocks and the company to be restricted to a certain number of rocks, to me, was extremely frustrating. And I'm like, we got 20 things to do. What do you mean? You know, you're only going to do three, we're only going to do four. What about the other 10? What about the other 15? And he kept saying, well, we're not doing those this quarter. And I said, well, they're important. And he would say, well, they're not as important as the other. So we had some conflict, healthy conflict. But it was real frustrating to me. And even I would say, even today, I get frustrated as a visionary saying, I think there's more than five rocks this quarter. I think there's 10, but that's Rachel's job is to talk me off that ledge. And she does a good job of it saying, you want to get nothing done or do you want to get those four or five done? And I've learned that they've given in to me and I think we've had seven to nine rocks and we fail every time we have too many rocks. So I'm learning. I'm just a slow learner and it's frustrating, but right now what it's done for the team has been incredible.

Nice, Nice. So, Rachel, same story. So from that kind of the beginning of the formalized structure, did it actually help you in your role because it gave you a system and a structure to kind of pull Pat's vision into a more executable version?

Absolutely. But I would say that the initial even couple years and the first few sessions were terrifying because we went into this environment where everybody's supposed to be open and honest and show all your vulnerabilities and you start to question like some of your boy, you know, have I been doing this right? Am I building people in the right manner? Do we have the right people at the table? The accountability, it doesn't slowly go up. It just is a straight up trajectory and it is right now. So I think that there was a sense that the vulnerability was, you know, it hit me that if we were going to make this work, we had to go in and face that head on. So we no longer could we just be just a two man team that made all the decisions, all that, you know, kind of ran roughshod, if you will. Not because out of ill intention, but just that's how we had grown. We had been a very small organization, entrepreneurial. All decisions were made only at our desks. And to create that sense of vulnerability, understand that we had to empower and kind of release some other team leaders to have that same amount of impact. It was scary, but absolutely. And I think that it came naturally. I think for me it was very eye opening because, well, I would say that it gave me the tools to execute on some of the practices that Pat and I had been exposed to, and mostly Pat. So Pat's still in Strategic Coach. I feel like Strategic Coach is built so well for the entrepreneur and for those of us who had exposure to the team's coach and so forth and kind of got going to the team leader. It was great, but it didn't have all the tools. And that helped the team with structure, the infrastructure, I would say. And I felt like EOs came in and just gave that and still could work in harmony with Coach.

Yeah, we really feel like EOS is the operating system for the entrepreneurial company where in a lot of respects, Strategic Coach is the operating system for that visionary entrepreneur in particular and really helps them get clear on, you know, really where this business kind of fits into their bigger picture. So when you first started the implementation, how many folks were on the leadership team?

I believe there were four. No, five. There were five on the leadership team when we started.

Okay, and how has that evolved and changed over the years? Did you have a lot of turnover there? Has it grown, has it contracted? Or is it pretty much the same in terms of the folks?

Interestingly, I would say that there was a point in transition where one of our team leaders did step off the team for a short amount of time. Pat. Well, a year and a half, maybe a to two years. He actually returned to our team and we had some really great conversation about what that could look like and how we could be a part of that success moving forward. And he's an instrumental part of our team. Now we've added. We have one other. We have six at the table as of today, and as of this coming Monday, we're adding our seventh. And so there'll be seven of us at that leadership table now, which is again, back to kind of trying to keep everything, you know, in one spot. And it's kind of that. Right. Realization of how we got here won't get us there. It's really exciting.

One of the things I notice in leadership teams that I work with directly is it's sort of an evolution. Right. So in the beginning, it seems like everybody is overwhelmed. They've got way more stuff on their plate than they can possibly handle. Which leads to these discussions where a topic will start to bubble up and you can kind of see them going, oh, no, that's going to be coming my way. And they just try to stiff arm it to anything they can do to keep another thing from coming on their plate. And as you begin to address the capacity issues and make sure you do actually have the right people in the right seats. And if you need to add some leaders or whatever, and people start to evolve from basically this doer mentality to much more of their time in that leadership mentality where they're creating capacity, they're making decisions, they're getting stuff done through others, the game in the room tends to change. Right. And so they become much more open to discussing the things that are potentially stuff we could bite into because they know it's not Just another thing they're going to have to do. It's another thing. Yeah. If we do, if we focus on this, then it's going to go back to the team and they've got more help to kind of make it happen. Have you experienced that kind of evolution in your leadership team as well?

I agree with that 100%. I think everyone at first felt like a personal. I don't want to call it personal attack, but my God, I'm doing something wrong or I'm being challenged. But all of these conversations that are deemed challenging or hard now are looked at as, let's have some hard conversations. Let's have some challenging things. That's how we grow. And it's not a slam on your team or your department, but hey, if we're overwhelmed, it's time to add more people. It's time to look for help. And I think it was hard to have those conversations early in our game in eos. And right now I don't think we look forward to hard conversations, but they're much more open and we look at them totally. I look at them totally differently than we did in the first couple years and we've been able to grow exponentially because of those hard conversations.

So talk to me about Rachel. Maybe you take this one, how the two of you really stay on the same page. You know, when visionaries are not on the same page, the behavior typically looks like the parents fighting in front of the kids. They'll be there in the leadership team meeting and they're just kind of going at it back and forth and the rest of the leadership team's stuck sitting there watching. It's very painful for everybody. So, you know, we really urge the visionary and integrator to adopt a same page discipline where they're intentional about making sure that they're handling that stuff ahead of time and doing everything they can to make sure that they are really basically two halves of the same brain. So, Rachel, how do you and Pat do that?

First of all, that is wonderful. I totally agree because I think there has to be healthy tension between a visionary and an integrator or else you just simply will not move forward. It can't be a one or the other. I think we had to move from a me to a we, you know, mentality. You know, we naturally think very differently about the logistical approach to things, but very often very similarly on the strategic approach to things. So I think that anytime we can spend even just quick one offs and I can feel it, I'm sure, I know Pat can feel it. I can feel, feel it when we start to get. When the busy badge starts to win and we don't take that time, you know, whether it be 20 or 30 minutes to reconnect and even hash out some of those tougher points or spaces of pain or frustration. I think that one of the things that we have to ask each other continuously is, you know, it's the old school of what's working, what's not working, and hit that really quickly so that we can address those. You know, Pat's filled with ideas. Usually when I see him hitting his area of frustration, it's because he doesn't feel like he has an outlet to share those. It's because he's trying to hold on and be so disciplined, you know, because the team's gonna be upset or frustrated or they can't do anything. But that usually tends to like, you know, blow up. It leads to overwhelming dumps in the long run. So anything I can do to try to pull those pieces out. What are the top three areas of frustration? And okay, you know, organize the next two. Even just really short term focuses, you know, anytime we spread it out too long, I think it just, it feels like, oh, everything's going to take so much time. So, yeah, connection points. We still do our same page. I think that we can continue always to evolve and be better in. I'll call them like quick one offs. That's when I feel the most like we're really clicking where we're not having those little moments in front of the rest of the team. Because you're right, as soon as they see any discourse or sense any of that, it slows the progress of anything and. Or just like anywhere else, they go to the one person who they believe is quote unquote on their side. So, you know, I think it's really. We have such strong leaders in our organization. They're very smart and compliment the unique abilities I think that Pat and I have and our areas of weakness, but just those connection points. And even if there's a point of frustration, the faster we hit it then the faster we move through it.

Right. So, building on the same page topic, Pat, how often do you have a formal same page meeting with Rachel?

They're scheduled off every three weeks, I believe.

Okay.

And we hit most of them every once in a while we blow through them. But, you know, whenever we have them, they're impactful and we always go, we need to do more of this. We need to spend more time. And I think we are learning as Rachel said, it doesn't need to be a formal meeting. The quick hits, the five minute call, the 10 minute pop in, get it off your brain right then rather than wait a week or wait two weeks. I think those are becoming more impactful because we're more focused when we do meet.

Yeah. So the caution I would give you there is you need to do both of those. Right. So you need to talk about the urgent stuff when you need to talk about it. And so the quick hits and all that stuff certainly do that. But the things that you'll talk about in a protected space of hey, we're going to spend two hours, we're going to spend however much time this month you will get into things there that you just wouldn't get into otherwise. And a lot of times it ends up being the high leverage stuff. And I have a lot of visionaries and integrators that I work with that they'll be like, well, our desks are right next to each other. We see each other all the time. We see each other all day, every day. But the quick hit conversations that you have just like that are about urgent things. They are about, you know, kind of superficial things. And a lot of times they just don't give you the space because you are running onto the next thing. You are in kind of a tight window for some reason. And so you just don't have that space to explore that thing that when you unlock it ends up being a really big deal. So please do protect those monthly same page meetings and stay on that. That's the two biggest things that I hear when I'll ask a group what their gaps are. We'll look at a tool like the rocket fuel power index and the two big things that'll pop out are they've somehow gotten away from the same page discipline. And usually it's the visionary that they don't really want to commit to it and they've got something else and so it kind of slips off the calendar, whatever. So the integrators really got to hold them to it. But anyway, they get away from that and that causes a gap and then the other one is around role clarity. And so they don't have crystal clear understanding, mutual understanding of what the visionary's roles are and what the integrators roles are. Where do you think you two are in regard to that? Do you feel like your roles really are crystal clear and we don't have any confusion there? Or is that something that you still are kind of. It's evolving and you're kind of working on that as well.

I think we're beyond evolving. I think we really understand each other's roles more so than ever, and I think we stay in our lanes for the most part. The beauty is Rachel's very entrepreneurial as well, so her getting out of the lane is not always a bad thing. It really tends to leverage us in a great way. So I think we're 1 to 10. We're probably like a 9 as far as where we know each other's lanes and where we live in.

Great. Rachel, you agree with that?

Well, I love the answer. Of course, yes. Pat and I have known each other now and our families have known each other. You start to think about that nurture nature conversation. We've been doing that inside of you for so long that it does help. I think that we also are starting to really understand when. So there's always that divide and conquer approach, but I think we're also really starting to understand the power of this. Isn't a divide really powerful? That's there as well. So I agree with Pat. I would give us a 9. I tend to always be the person who says there's always some work, but it's also because I look at our pipeline right now, Mark, and it's so fantastic. It's so beyond, I think what. Certainly beyond what I had thought we would be. The point that I thought we'd be at this stage of our journey, but also I. When I look at it, I'm looking at it from a tactical approach and thinking, okay, we really have to go. We really have to add some more team members. We really have to have great communication. We've got to have great clarity because that's how we're going to execute these. So. Yeah. But I would. I can't imagine having that same level of confidence networking with somebody like that.

Yeah, that's cool. And the confidence, that's a big piece of the equation as well as you really understand and believe and trust in each other to be able to do what needs to be done. All right, so this is kind of an interesting question. So, Pat, if Rachel could wave a magic wand and change something about you, what do you think it would be?

I think it would be my patience level and my ability to be okay with limiting the number of rocks in a quarter in a year. I think that would be number one. That's my biggest pain point, is limiting the number of things we're working on for that quarter. I think that would solve a lot of things.

I believe so if you had a little more patience and your eyes weren't bigger than our stomach, then that would make her life a little better.

She's probably got a whole list, but that's probably number one.

Rachel, what's top of your list of that question? If you could change one thing about Pat, what would it be?

Yeah, patience. And it would be. But at the same time, it's interesting. I always say it would be patience. I don't know. It's those goals. If everything's a priority, nothing's a priority. So it's the patience. And he wears it. He is so gifted with that vision. We wouldn't grow without some lack of patience and pushing. So I recognize the benefit of it. But, yeah, I think he nailed it. We talk pretty openly. So, yeah, he nailed it.

So let's flip the question. So if Pat was going to wave a magic wand and change one thing about you, Rachel, what would that be?

Yeah, speed of execution, probably again, speed of getting other team members to pivot quickly and execute and have a deliverable. You know, on answers, I would say speed of execution.

Pat, did she get it right?

She nailed it. Speed of execution. And speed and creativity and looking at a problem amongst all teammates, the way we look at things, you nailed it.

So that's pretty cool that you guys, you know each other well enough to know that and at the same time understand that just because that's what the other part of your duo wants, that energy that you're bringing that's kind of tugging the other direction. There's something important about that. Right? So, like, the urgency. There's something important about having somebody in the team, somebody in the equation that's pushing the pace, while on the other side, you've got somebody that's kind of slowing it down a little bit to make sure that we do it right, do it well. You know, we ask the important questions and all that. So, you know, that's kind of fun to see the tug of war. But I love the fact that you know each other well enough to kind of see through the other one's eyes for a little bit. All right, so you guys have been doing this for about seven years. There's lots of folks listening that they may be farther along in their journey than you. They may be just starting out. And what I find is, regardless of where someone is in their own journey, you can always learn something from somebody else. Right. If it's farther down the road, maybe they help you learn something that helps you get there quicker, maybe with a little avoiding Some of the pain that. That that person had to go through to get there. And if it's somebody who's been doing it for a long time, they learn by hearing somebody early in the journey talk about something that is really fundamental. And it's like, oh, yeah, I forgot that I've gotten away from that. It's sort of the loving tap on the shoulder that gets us back to basics for something that's pretty important. So if you were gonna share part of your learning with somebody who's listening, that's out there, that really wants to be great in their respective role, either at great as a visionary or great as an integrator, I'd love you to kind of give them a nugget. So whichever one of you would like to start to give a nugget of wisdom from your journey, the first seven years of doing this on what's really most important to be truly great as either a visionary or an integrator. Our listeners would love to hear that.

I'll start. I had an aha moment probably at year four, and I was a believer in eos. I was a believer in the system. And, you know, we'd set rocks and we'd move on and we'd go from quarter to quarter and we'd do the year. And Jim Croyle pulled out. He goes, you guys want to see your first year, three year plan, your three year goals? We had forgotten all, you know, you reset them every year so they go by the wayside. He pulled them out. And I think it was an aha for everyone in the room. We kind of. We looked at him and we set aspirational rocks and we set aspirational objectives. We blew through them. And I didn't even realize, maybe the other folks did, but I didn't realize that we not only met them, we blew them away. And it made me stop and go, this thing's for real. This is amazing what it's been able to do for us. And if we could do that every three years, wow, why would we ever change systems? Why would we ever look for a different way of doing things? That was the aha. I was in it. But after that, I was fully saying the power that it brings to our team through quarterly objectives, 90 day sprints, we want to call them game changer. And that changed the way I look at this. And I'm a true believer. That got me that one day.

Nice. So I love that. So, yeah, by taking the time to paint the picture of where you want this thing to be, three years from now, that three year picture, it informs the one year plan, the one year plan, informs the quarterly plans, the 90 day rocks along the way. And then everybody kind of goes heads down and goes to work. But it's in there, it's in there. You're having the conversations, you're working on the stuff to figure out how to solve that problem to get to that place you want to be three years from now. And then just like you said, you pick your head up. It's like lo and behold, we've made a lot of progress or we've gotten there or we've blown right past it. So that's very cool. Visionary side of the equation. So Rachel, on the integrator side. So somebody's listening. They want to be a great integrator. What's your nugget of wisdom that you can share after doing this for seven years?

Yeah, strategic alignment. I mean, you know, you hit it on it earlier, Mark. I mean the more Pat and I are aligned, the more dangerous I can be. And I think about myself honestly almost on a day to day basis as almost a fireman. I'm running back and forth and I'm really helping now. Supposed to be the only one with the hose and spraying it. I'm tooling people with that, helping them clear, you know, hurdles and obstacles and thinking creatively on the challenges to get visionary and integrator. I feel very tooled and confident in my ability to feel it. So I love that. So strategic alignment and naturally, even with very good intent or without any ill intent, an integrator could be in that progress or movement in a direction that doesn't align with the visionary. And then you're going to see all of those places of conflict space celebrating. I love that Pat said that sometimes we are such a driven or not only just aspirational but just, you know, when we're able to execute, we are able to get to that finish line faster and safer and peek over the shoulder and give some high fives and recognitions to the team. So that's right when accomplishments to watch how much that fueled our team members to feel as rewarded just in that space.

Great. Love that. Thanks for sharing that. And so before we kind of wrap this up, I want to kind of see if there's one other thing that has ever happened. So have you guys ever had the really stuck, really kind of blow up? This thing is just, you know, we can't get on the same page here. Turns into a big, big fight. A big, you know, whole different ends of the spectrum kind of how you're seeing things kind of conflict in your relationship, or has it always just been easy breezy, you know, and kind of no trouble to get to the same page? Pat, have you ever had that conflict?

The word easy breezy would not be used in this process. We never had a where we know we can't get on the same page, where you look at it and go, man, this is a lost cause. We're never going to communicate correctly and able to do it. I think we are always respectful enough to go, let's figure out a creative way so that it moves the company forward, because that's what it's about. I think both of us have that in our mind. It's not about integrator or visionary or accounting or construction or management. It's about moving the entire group forward in a professional, positive way. And I think because we have the same morals and ethics and drive, we've never had a problem getting on the same page. Sometimes it takes a little longer than others, but we've never had a problem where I said I didn't think we could work through it in a healthy way.

Yeah, sounds like that's just really about the commitment to each other, commitment to the vision. And again, it sounds like you've both done a lot of good work to really stay on the same page and understand each other with clearly defined roles. So I'm sure that that hard work, that foundation has made that possible. Well, listen, we're coming up against our time here, but I want to just thank you for spending a little bit of your time with us today and sharing some of your wisdom from your journey. I have a lot of gratitude that you would take the time to do that. I know it's going to be helpful to our listeners. Again, whatever stage of the journey they're on, lots of nuggets in your stories that can kind of help them get a little bit closer to where they're trying to go. So to our listeners, thanks for listening. If you'd like like what you're hearing on the Rocket Fuel podcast, please leave us a review that helps people find out about our little show here, and hopefully some other visionaries and integrators can learn some things as well that may help them. So until next time, go Rocket. Thanks so much for joining me today. I really hope you were inspired by our guests. If you're interested to discover how your current visionary integrator relationship compares to the relationship you'd like, I invite you to go visit rocketfueluniversity.com and take our free Crystallizer assessment. You'll get both your Visionary and Integrator Indicator scores, and that's going to help you figure out your next step. How do you get rid of the frustration and uncertainty that so often gets in the way of running a successful business? Master the Metrics that matter In April, we're releasing the latest addition to the EOS Mastery Series Data Harness your numbers to go from uncertain to unstoppable to teach you how to get excited to master your data component and pre order your copy now@eosworldwide.com traction library.