Slowing Down to Speed Up in Leadership | Mark O’Donnell and Kelly Knight

Today's episode was sponsored by Frog Slayer.

And we see this in relationships, right when one partner is going and learning and growing and the other one isn't. Now all of a sudden, it creates a huge separation between the two and it creates a lot of friction. So I always want to make sure that I'm that gap doesn't get created while Kelly's doing the nitty gritty hard work and I'm going and learning new things that she has left behind because that would create frict.

Hey everybody, and welcome to the Rocket Fuel podcast where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create Rocket Fuel. I'm your host, Mark C. Winners, co author of Rocket Fuel and an expert EOS implementer. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Mark o' Donnell and Kelly Knight, the visionary and integrator duo for EOS Worldwide. Last time I spoke to them, their visionary and integrator duo relationship was still fresh. Since then, EOS Worldwide has grown rapidly and they've had to manage several challenges. Scaling a team, writing a book together, and launching EOS1, a software set to impact 1 million entrepreneurs by 2030. In this episode, Mark and Kelly talk about the mindset shift they underwent to move EOS Worldwide in a new direction. How necessary courage is for navigating hard decisions and, and the power of building a culture with intention. We're starting the show with Mark sharing some of the tough calls they've had to make as they scale the business. Here we go.

So as we were writing the people book, since then our leadership team has turned over 50% and we've added a seat. And so there we came to, we were really living our, our own process, right? We knew that the business was growing and scaling and it, we had to make tough calls. Kelly had had to have hundreds of calls with people and just getting on the, the same page with where we are as an organization, try to find that right structure that will help us get through to the, the next phase of growth and then going out and finding the right people in the right seats to, to sit in those seats. And that's been a journey. I mean, since one year ago, it's literally over 50% turnover on the leadership team. And then we have, with the growth over the last year, I think we added over 50 people to the broader team. And so that of course comes with it, a, a huge level of challenge. You hit the ceiling and sort of chaos and mayhem as you're growing that that fast and following the process, running on EOS in order to keep the wheels on the bus and break through the ceiling as you move forward. So that's kind of where the journey we've been on over the last year, right, Kelly?

I agree. And it's just, you know, it's always rising above to see greater good, this relentless pursuit of, of excellence again in everybody that we serve. And so it requires being really honest. We had some funk conversations, as they were referred to internally, where things just were not working well. Some of the processes, some data, some communications. And so it really required slowing down and listening, sort of going around and having great conversations with lots of different members of the team in different parts of the organization and then piecing together trends of what we're hearing and, and then backfilling to take EOs and determine really what is the right structure. And then how does that then inform process, how does that then inform our scorecards? And it really just required going slow to go fast. And we use that pretty often at eos. And that's really what was entailed. But at the heart of it too, I think in the People book we talk a little bit about this, but it's really central to the theme the past year, Mark, is this misconception that you're either serving the greater good of the whole organization or an individual, but you can't do both at the same time. And it's just not true. And so when we think about all the right people moves that were required as a result of all of our evolution, we really can either find somebody another seat if they share our core values, if they do not share our core values, that's obviously a different conversation. And sometimes it's helping people really truly define what they want for themselves and help them find happiness elsewhere. And so that is actually can be a really joy filled experience. Some of it's really, really hard, don't get me wrong. But part of it is truly just resetting things and being really open to what outcome there is as a result of those conversations. So I would say it's hard and it's scary and it feels like you're climbing a mountain and it's going to take forever. But when you go slow to go fast, it really things begin to release and break open and you see new possibilities you couldn't see before.

So let's dive into that. You mentioned that some of it is really hard. And one of the things that I've learned over the years, which was surprising to Me was that things that I hate doing someone else actually loves doing. Things that are super hard for me are actually very easy for someone else. And it's not obvious to us until we, you know, listen to somebody that's experienced that or we experience it ourselves. So when you talk about those hard people conversations, you know, the integrator, that's that comes with the territory, right? That comes with the role. So. So talk to us, Kelly, about how that works in your brain. So is it that you, it's easy for you, is it that it's hard, but it's the right mind frame? What is it that, that that makes that a superpower where you can do it and it doesn't just totally beat you down?

When my mindset is right, it's easy. If I don't get myself in the right mindset, it's the hardest thing I'll do any one given day. So the mindset really for me has to be okay. And I pray on this, I praying for me as part of my business strategy. And so it really is about what is the right thing to do here, what is going to honor the organization, honor our core values, honor everything on our vto, our Vision Traction Organizer is the guiding light. That is our vision. That is where we're meant to go. And also simultaneously holding possible what's right for that given person. What is their unique ability and God given talent? And does it belong here or maybe somewhere else in a different seat? And so when you just take time to think it out, the answer comes to you. I actually keep the VTO to the left side of me. I talk about this often because even though I know all the words that are on it, it's a great filtering mechanism for these really hard decisions that have to be made. I take clarity breaks to get my mind free. If I don't do that, I can often make poor decisions or think things are a certain way when maybe they're not, if I actually take the time to look at the data and the information in front of me in addition to my own instinct. So I'd say it starts with mindset and then using those right tools to get to the right answer. And then it's just having the courage to have really hard conversations. And another misnomer is that it's one conversation. Sometimes that's one conversation. Sometimes it's a series of conversations with a person or a team to get that figured out. So being prepared that while sometimes it's ripping the band aid off and you gotta make a tough call and maybe that's exiting someone from the organization. I think more often you may need to think about it as an iterative process to determine if someone can get, say, the GWC in the coming quarter or not. So there's a lot of variables. I often say being an integrator is as much art as it is science. And so leaning into that, every person is different, every person leads separately. But I think if your mindset is right, you can do anything.

So I hear you. You know, you've got a lot of intentionality around this. So you're using prayer, you're using clarity breaks, you've got your, your greater good reference in your vto, you know, that, that help get your mind right, help you have the courage to, you know, to enter the danger as we speak. Right. So I'm curious, in a sense, you're kind of taking this part of the load most of the time, Right. As we think about all the things that have to happen in your VI duo, you're carrying a lot of that load. Is Mark a resource that helps to support you as you're able to go do these hard people decisions and hard people conversations. How does he help you in this relationship to be more effective when you're doing that tough stuff?

Well, 100%. I mean, Mark is my strategic thinking partner and I like to think I'm his too. So often it's my showing up and saying, here's what I'm seeing, feeling and sensing. Here's what I think we should do. Here's an approach we can take. What do you think? What have I missed? Because there's the plain devil's advocate. I can't see it all. I can't be everything to everyone. He can see things that I can't see. So he can fill in gaps. He might say, hey, I noticed this. And then I'll say, well, that makes me think about. And then we have this ping pong tennis match that I think we may have talked about on our last episode actually, which is just this really engaging back and forth thinking exercise that helps us to crystallize and get right what we both together think is the right thing to do. So absolutely. He's a great thinking partner that way.

So Mark, talk to us about how much mind share, the people stuff actually consumes for you. Okay, so you're, you're the thought partner, right? You, you kind of do your ping pong thing. You, you help Kelly when she needs it, but then can you kind of let that go and just kind of know she's got it. Or does it sit up there and spin a little bit while it's being taken care of? Give us a little window inside your brain on that.

Yeah. My initial response was I just get out the popcorn and watch the show, which is true a little bit. But of course I am very concerned about getting right people in the right seats. I know with 100% confidence that Kelly's got it and I don't meddle in. In that process. Some people, sometimes people will call me or whatever, and I still make every effort to exit that situation because I know she's got it and kind of working this the situation to a conclusion. But does it take mind share? I mean, the answer is yes, it absolutely makes mind share. Takes up mind share. Because we don't. We cannot make progress unless we have right people, right seats. And during those moments where we have people issues that we're dealing with, I'm pretty careful not to add any more vision to the. The pile. Right. Like I. It takes a lot of energy to have those hard conversations. And so I think it would be doing Kelly a disservice for me to pile on something else at the same time. And so I sort of just hold it off to the side and when the energy seems to be released from that difficult time, then we start again. So I am thinking about it. I'm aware of it. Does it keep me up at night that it's not going to get solved? No, not a bit. Am I still concerned about it? Just take up mind share? Yeah, a little bit.

All right, so you two have been together as a Vi duo how long now?

Coming on four years.

Okay, so think back to the beginning. So 2020. What sort of jumps out to you as the biggest difference in your relationship now versus then one thing. If you're going to boil it down to one thing, what would it be?

I would just say it's a deeper, more trusting relationship is what it is. Just simply based out of experience and time. Time together. We spend a lot of time together. People are shocked at how much time we spend together because I often hear integrators may say I have a hard time maybe finding my visionary once every week or two. And that's just not the case for us. So I would just say that we spend a lot of time together. We enjoy time together. I think that's beneficial to the company. And that's different than it was four years ago because that was relatively chaotic. It was during COVID and it was saved the company literally at that time. So you know we're spending a lot of time together, but it was really in battle, in war. Today we certainly have our own set of wars that we're facing, but it's just like melted into a more natural time spent together and deepening of, of how we care for each other, our team and those that we serve.

Okay, so deeper trust based relationship. Mark, what would you say?

I would totally agree with that. And really we started working together I think at the fall of 2019. I was head coach at the time and never really had any particular interaction prior to that, that time. And so we started having conversations in the middle of a war and sort of the war continued. Right. So it is a, definitely a relationship that has been forged under pressure and lots of very difficult situations managing people. And so that just continues to evolve. So I, I don't think I can pick out like one little thing that is different now from then. It's just, just, just really continuous evolution. And if you think about like the way gold is refined, right, the put gets put under pressure, under fire, the chaff raises to the top, it gets wiped off and it just, this continuous refining process is, is really what I would describe it as over time. And we do spend a lot of time on the phone and having conversations and I'm an out loud thinker and Kelly probably is too. So it, that, that's what creates that ping pong match and it's just a continuous refinement.

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Right, so I've worked with 11 visionaries and what is different about Mark and what's evolved is his tinkering in sort of the toy box or the workshop, so to speak. And so he's just, it's really interesting to see in some of the things when we're challenged with accomplishing things we've never done before. He goes in and he does the research, he does the work. He is out talking to check writers, our implementers and our clients and listening and learning and kind of going in and figuring out, well, what really is the best approach in the research. He goes and he looks at the marketplace, what are, what has happened in the past could be something historical, something that's current day. And he just is masterful at connecting dots. And that's something that it was forged and I think accelerated because of building software and a rapidly growing organization and having implementers going from, well, let's say a year ago we would have been at like 650 implementers and now we're at 800. So you know that, that growth is just really important for him to be able to have the time and dedication to be able to do that really good hard work and then bring that intel back to the team to share his vision. So I would say that's really accelerated the past years and it's benefited, I know, for me a lot and for our team and hopefully for those that we serve.

So 11 different visionaries, Kelly, so how wide is the span there? So when you think about, you know, we talk about the visionary spectrum, we talk about a lot of different ways that visionaries show up differently.

Talk about that, you know, as Mark decided he's an out loud thinker while someone else might be like, I want to cave and I'm going to come back and I'm going to, you know, have written on a scroll exactly sort of what the vision is and neither one is right nor wrong, it's just very different. And then you've got everything in between and there's some that are more creative than others. Sometimes we've got a company where it's more or less replicating what we're doing, but just expanding and scaling it versus reinventing ourselves every six to 18 months. So it requires just a different kind of visionary and pivoting to that. So I would say they're all very, very different. And you have to take into account what is it that that visionary needs too. One of the things that I hear often is I really just don't as an integrator talking to integrators, I just don't really either have the interest or the time necessarily to want to sit with my visionary for a couple hours because I got things to do. I've got, you know, I've got to go run the business. But the beauty of, of working with Mark is I really enjoy it. I look forward to it. When we get together, I'm like, gosh, I wonder what's new and on his mind. And that really gets exciting for me because it's different every week. Some people are not like that. And maybe vision changes a little less often. So it's just a fun journey. The way that I look at it is exciting. I don't have any expectation of a way that a visionary should show up. It's kind of really neat that there's a rainbow of different possibilities.

Yeah. So they've got different gifts, different styles of thinking, styles of communicating, different objectives, things they're trying to make happen, and different help that they need. So Mark, kind of flip the question to you about your perspective on the role of the integrator, and I think.

We touched on it earlier, is having all those tough conversations, managing the leadership team, the flexibility in managing each person completely different because that's what they, they need. And in my experience, my brother was really my integrator. You know, he's 15 months younger than me, so basically since birth. And I would have to have all the hard conversations, the managing the energy, you know, in a detailed way. He's much better at doing all that. But Kelly's doing both. And that really creates a huge amount of, of freedom for me in order to be free to, to, to think. And I haven't really changed the way I interact with Kelly versus other integrators or how I would expect to see an integrator show up in the world in that I just think that if I have the. I don't go up to the mountain and come down because to me, well, that's not enrolling that integrator into the vision. That is simply just telling them what to do. And I personally don't believe that that is a winning strategy. I'd rather enroll that integrator into the conversation because they helped co create that vision with me. And if we can do that, then we're more likely to be on the same page because we've co created the thing. And then I can continue doing my part and Kelly can continue doing her part. And so I haven't really evolved my thinking per se around that relationship. I've just gained a lot more freedom because really I joke with Kelly, she's sort of like a purple unicorn that is a type of integrator that doesn't exist in very many places. And the reason I say that is because she's learning at the same speed as I am. She's coming along the journey at the same time and then being able to execute on it oftentimes. And I've seen this in session rooms working with. With clients is that the visionary is out there learning and doing and learning and doing and growing, but the integrator is sort of stuck. And we see this in relationships, right? When one partner is going and learning and growing and the other one isn't. Now all of a sudden, it creates a huge separation between the two and it creates a lot of friction. So I always want to make sure that I'm. That gap doesn't get created while Kelly's doing the nitty gritty hard work and I'm going and learning new things that she has left behind because that would create friction. And so I want to make sure that you kind of are going up the mountain together as opposed to me running up and then running back down, which I do do for other people. Just thought it was Kelly.

Yeah. So, I mean, I have this visual. We talk about the puzzle pieces and obviously the two visionary and integrator puzzle pieces being truly complementary and fitting together well. And part of that fit for the two of you is that it's that tempo. It's that being able to keep up with each other, being able to think together, being able to learn together, that's something that you have in common. And then of course, the two fit in with the business. And guess what? The business is not static. Right. Businesses don't just stay like they are right now all the time. They change constantly. And so it's like that's the train that's moving, and so the duo's got to keep up with it. And if half the duo is keeping up with the train and the other one is kind of running along behind, that's not the three piece puzzle that we're. That we're looking for. So I love that story. You know, I know you two are intentional. Part of your success, I believe, is that you are intentional about continuing to grow and. And get better and deepen your relationship and work on the things that you need to work on. And I know that one of the tools that you use is the rocket fuel power index and filling that out every quarter. And, you know, each one of you kind of takes your cut at where you see things. I'm curious as you kind of look back over the last year or so or since you kind of first started using the power index, if there's one of the mindsets on There that you've really focused on and made notable progress on and how you chose that one.

I think it's just always been true, but it continues to be true is that same pageness. Because as goes the VI duo, so goes the leadership team, as goes the rest of the organization. So we're just really maniacal about even when we're good, even if we'd rate it at 10, we're still just constantly obsessing about that all of the time. Because when there could be a gap, we're moving fast and it's like, oh, Mark and I are not on the same page about this. It's identifying that and pulling it back. So to the degree that we get that one right, I think it kind of fixes a lot of the other things. And if that same pageness is awesome anyway, it creates negative ripple impacts on the rest of the team. So I would say that one for me.

Well, just to build on what Kelly said with same pageness are because we do talk so often, our feedback loops are super tight. Right. And so ever if they're maybe a couple hours might go by where we're not on the same page and then we kind of get back back on. But I would say overall it was not one of the particular topics that we're moving forward. But one of the things because Kelly mentioned we have these 27 stakeholders is that it's really about our same pageness, not only with each other, but with the rest. And so that's really what we've been working on. Because you know, sometimes in the thick of it and you're like, oh, you're kind of stuck, you're frustrated and we'll just fall down that hole together and it'll take three days and you're like, oh, that was terrible. We need to like do extra work to be on the same page with those 27 stakeholders. Because it isn't just about us. And we can put that into the, the three part business puzzle if you would like. But that, that business puzzle is not only 800 plus implementers and 150 employees, it's investors, it's board members, it's owners, it's all those different components to it. So we can get disjointed and in our same pageness, not with one another, but with those other 27. And you know that that can. Cause we are kind of going off this way and we really need to be going off this way and following along the shareholders.

Yeah, I was going to say, you know, running that exercise was Very enlightening. It was born out of a clarity break because when things happen and you're like, wait a minute, I thought we had that covered, but we didn't know, wait a minute, that means we, there's another group of people that needed to know that. So it's this maniacal Tidy Bow thing that I learned from Gina Wickman, which is basically Tidy Bow represents in an organization that when a decision is made or a change of direction, something that influences someone else, you must go to all the stakeholders, the 360 degree view, to make sure that everybody understands what that thing is and how it impacts them. And so that is the deepening of that is to understand the 27, then to relate it to decision making, communications and all of those cascading components. And you'll be surprised if you take a little look at that. Really, it's quite eye opening, just about where you've got the holes. And so when Gino had shared with me Tidy Bow, it was born out of a navigation meeting that he and I were having as he was seeking to make me a world class integrator as part of his succession plan. That was eye opening because I wasn't doing it very well at the time. But in Gino's masterful way, he was able to tell this story of the Tidy Bow and what it should look like. And that's then, of course, you know, since then, always inspired me. But there's always the ability to get better at that.

Love the Tidy Bow. All right, mark to you, Mr. Visionary here. Look, 10 years in the future, tell us what EOS Worldwide looks like and tell us what the role of the VI duo is in getting us there and making that future happen.

Well, I would start with, in my view, EOS becomes the de facto standard on how to run and grow an entrepreneurial business in the world. Just like Peter Drucker made management and the concept of management acceptable, a thing, a discipline, EOS becomes that where it is, just what you do in order to run a great business. And it's a complete system. We have implementers, we have great content in the world that is making it so accessible and easy for people to implement these tools to make an impact, to make a dent in the universe. Implementers are coaching and not only building great lives for themselves, but they're making a huge difference in the lives of the businesses that they're working with. And then we have our technology platform or web platform where it's helping people make better decisions, it's keeping them more organized and they're just rocking and rolling in their companies and we're really moving economies as a result of that. And then if we dig a little bit deeper into that with the visionary integrator and VI duos, I had a conversation. Someone said, oh, you know, the concept of visionary integrators, that's great for small companies, but it doesn't scale. I'm like, well, I'm going to issue a challenge to you. Find me a company that scaled that did not have a visionary integrator duo. And of course they couldn't find one because they don't exist. And so to me, the concept of a visionary and integrator has existed throughout all time. You can go into the ancient texts, you can look at, you know the, you can look at the Bible and you see visionary integrator relationships happening over and over and over again. You can look through all the case studies, they're there. So what I believe that our role is with EOS is to shine a light on the fact that this relationship has always existed. It's just that you haven't recognized it and given credit where it's due. And so once we can create that awareness, shine the light and say you have a visionary integrated relationship, whether you know it or not, who's the who? And now then, how do we make that an effective relationship? How do we make that something that can grow the organization? Because really, in my view, and I've said this before, and it can be quite shocking to people, is that is more important that you have a great VI duo than it is that you have an operating system and you're strong in the six key components. Because if you don't have that VI duo identified, it's not a great fit. Nothing else is going to work. It's going to have such negative ripple effects throughout the business. The chances of you making a difference, implementing eos, it'll help a little bit, but it's not really going to take you where you want to go. You're going to have to do a lot more work than you should. You're not going to be able to live in your unique ability, God given talent and it's just not going to work. So to me, that is what our role is that we've got. We've shined a light on this de facto standard that it's taught in business schools around the world. And this is the way to run a company, to provide the most impact, least amount of time and effort. And those businesses employ millions of people and literally move economies so that's when I looked in 10 years from now, that is where the journey we've begun because there's no end to that one. Yeah.

Kelly, would you add to that?

I agree with everything Mark said. I would just say it's, you know, it's democratizing EOS to the world. The greater that we can have that reach of EOS to all corners of the world. I know we're going to continue to make a huge impact through our implementers, through EOS1, through the content. And so the more that we just make it accessible in ways that were really only originally by getting the book or by having an implementer in your region is just to expand that in amazing ways. And you know, I just, I, I think so much of entrepreneurs and how they shape our world and without entrepreneurs would be a very different world. The world that arguably wouldn't exist as it does today. So, so that impact is just, it's pretty awe dropping to think about the magnitude of impact that we can make.

Yeah. So I, I love that the EOS life is kind of this super powerful thing. That is an impact that we're having as an organization. Strong VI duos are a key driver of that. The strong operating system is a key driver of that. The software platform, the implementers, everybody helps make that happen. And so the scale that you're talking about, Mark, when you lay it out there 10 years from now, and we know how important the VI duo is in making a vision real for our business, how much pressure are you feeling? So if we want to make this big dent in the universe as this company and it's, you know, so much of it is dependent on the two of you being dialed in, in a great duo leading this organization to go and have that impact. Do you feel that?

People tell me all the time like, man, you're so relaxed, you must be dead inside or something dead inside. And, and I, and I'm not. So I, I feel the responsibility of that. I don't, I don't feel the pressure of that in a, in a negative way now. Do I get worked up if things aren't going the way I would like them to go? Do I like. Yeah, of course, of course. I obviously get passionate about certain topics that I don't think are going the way they should be. But in terms of executing on that vision, to me it is a little bit of a foregone conclusion. It's just a matter of time and I'm very patient.

You know, you know what it is? It's the three Ps as I call them.

Okay.

And the three Ps to me is to protect, preserve and perpetuate us forever. And so that's, that's more of a responsibility component than it is pressure or whatnot. But, but I feel that that's my 2am obsession, is being a protector of this really beautiful thing that's been created so long ago, originating with Gino and Don. And through all the evolution, through all the change, through all the succession planning, through the company being sold to where it is today, I just want it to be great. So that, that does come sometimes with those early morning wake ups of what are the things that I need to obsess about today so that we're doing the right thing.

That's sort of the tension on the rubber band, right. Is you've got Mark kind of pushing the vision and putting pressure on the system. Right. And then you're figuring out how we can do that while still protecting and preserving and perpetuating. Right. Your three P's. And so that's a real nice creative tension that it puts on the two of you and the organization as a result. Great discussion. Really appreciate the two of you taking some time to give us a little window into your world of what's going on with your VI duo inside of EOS worldwide. You know, we got visionaries and integrators listening to this and all the stakeholders of those folks that are tuning in probably as well. And so I'm sure that you've helped them. So, you know, whole idea here is how can we help some people learn something maybe a little bit sooner so they don't have to learn it the hard way. Like, you know, all the lessons that many of us end up learning the hard way, maybe they get there a little bit less pain, get there a little bit faster wherever it is they're trying to go. So I know you've helped help some folks today. So thank both of you for being here and thanks to our listeners for listening. And if you like what you're hearing, you know, tell somebody, give us a review. That's how more people find out about our little podcast here. And we just want to help more people make an impact in the world. So that's what we're here for. And so we look forward to seeing you next time. And until next time, go rock it. All right, so fantastic conversation there with Mark and Kelly. Always love talking to those two. I think they're such a great example of a powerful VI duo. And so let's go to the toolbox and kind of pull out a couple of nuggets. So one thing was how Kelly talked about being intentional to get her mindset right. And one of the tools that she used there was the clarity break, right. Spending time in that clarity break to sort of remind herself of the greater good picture where she's trying to go. Prayer is a tool that she uses, you know, getting clear. So she's confident and completely focused on what it is that she's trying to do. So I thought that was a really good application of that tool. You also heard her talk multiple times about same pageness and just their maniacal, I think was the word that she used about that discipline. And it's different than just talking a lot. It's having that dedicated time to go deep and talk about the things that you won't just talk about in a hit and run conversation when you pass each other in the hall or when you're on a quick zoom catch up. It's having the space to really get into whatever those things are that you need to get into that are many times it's a deeper thing, It's a foundational thing. It's something that's either getting in the way or something that hasn't been unlocked yet. So I thought that was another really powerful tool reference there. And then finally the last one is this idea of the three piece puzzle. So again, the visionary piece, the integrator piece, fitting together in a very complementary fashion and then both plugging into the piece, the third piece, which is the business itself and the picture of how those things are dynamic. We're always changing. The visionary is always changing, the integrator is always changing. So are you learning and growing at the same pace or is the visionary outgrowing the integrator? Or sometimes it could happen. I've actually seen it where the visionary actually gets kind of stagnant and the integrator is outgrowing the visionary. And then of course, the business is moving all the time. So it's. It's moving along, it's changing. Your market is changing, the needs of the business are changing. So is that three piece puzzle moving along and growing at the same at the same pace. So great applications of tools always love going back to the toolbox and helping you folks anchor it back down into the stuff that can help you as you have issues and situations to kind of try to get yourself closer to where it is you want to be getting what you want to get out of your business and making your VI duo as powerful as it possibly can. Be. So to kind of wrap this one up, be sure to go to rocketfueluniversity.com, take the assessment there, the Crystallizer assessment. If you haven't taken it yet, learn more about the various tools that we offer and join our community of visionaries and integrators. I'd love to see you in there and perhaps see you at an event and help you learn something. So appreciate you taking the time to listen today and until next time, go Rocket. Thank you for listening today. I really hope this episode inspired you to bring Rocket Fuel to your business. If you're interested in learning more about the free community for visionaries, integrators and the people who support them, please visit rocketfueluniversity.com. Whether you're a visionary or an integrator, Rocket Fuel University was created to help you master your craft and get more out of your business. If you haven't already, join now to access resources like educational videos, interactive community forums and monthly IDS sessions, all for free. Go to rocketfueluniversity.com to get started.