Unlocking Your Visionary/Integrator™ Superpowers | Jeni Bukolt and Jessica Blackshaw

Today's episode was sponsored by New Economy cpa.

We firmly believe all problems are communication problems. So like you said, it comes back to trust and respect, which can only come from communication. You know, radically candid, hard conversations. I also think Jess and I align on our core values of the achiever. We come from entrepreneurial backgrounds. Like there were certain things that already kind of aligned us there, but over the years we had to break down the fear of failure, failure or upsetting each other to have really good, hard conversations. And I also look back and go, we went through Covid together. We've went through family members that have passed away. We went through client downturns together. And each one of those times, being in the trenches, if you will, has brought us out even stronger and better because of that communication. And the bond now we have is really solid.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another season of the Rocket Fuel podcast where visionary and integrator duos from entrepreneurial companies share a behind the scenes look at their relationship. These amazing leaders blend their unique skills to create Rocket Fuel. I'm your host, Mark C. Winters, co author of Rocket Fuel and an expert EOS implementer. Today, I'm thrilled to be talking with Jenny Buchholt and Jessica Blackshaw of Haven Creative, an award winning communications consultancy that supports marketing teams in creating lasting branding. Jenny acts as CEO and founder of Haven, while Jessica works as the client service director and integrator. Both women uniquely model the visionary and integrator roles, with Jenny having brought Jessica into the partnership when she started eos. In this episode, we'll explore the different ways visionaries and integrators work together to mix the proverbial cake batter when it comes to communicating new ideas. Jenny and Jessica will also share how they balance responsibilities with and keep each other accountable with report cards and level 10 meetings. We're kicking off the conversation by talking about a phrase Jenny and Jessica coined that embodies the visionary integrator relationship. They call it the wow and the how. Here we go.

So we coined this probably about a year ago, and a lot of times there's a ton of ideas moving back and forth and we like to say that Jenny's the wow. She'll go in and paint the beautiful picture and then I'm the how. I'm the one making that shit happen behind the scenes and that's what we call the gsd. So she definitely is the one that is the idea thrower. And I catch all those ideas for us.

Very cool.

That's the cake batter.

You know, not surprising that you're in a creative space. I can tell by all these different things you've come up with. And so I also heard you mention the cake batter. So what was the cake batter story?

Yeah, I'll start that one off because it was definitely an eye opening moment, I would say. Like Jess said, I have a lot of ideas. I'm very creative and I process out loud. And this is something I learned about myself a year or so ago when one day just frantically looked at me and said, I just, I feel like you're throwing cake batter at me. Like, do I have to do all these ideas? Like, these are like half baked ideas. I don't know what's going on. I think the team is getting stressed out. And I went, oh, oh, that makes sense. I haven't really thought this through. I'm just processing. And so then she says it's her job to kind of put it in the pan and bake it. But I'll let her kind of tell you how she thought of that.

Yeah, I mean, there's all the ingredients swirling around and I just feel like it just came to me one day that I'm the one that puts it in the pan, bakes it for the team, and gives them this beautiful presentation of what the cake batter is. And we've even made it a verb. Sometimes Jenny will just be like, I'm cake battering. And I'll be like, okay, so this is a half baked idea. And then we'll talk through what the next steps are. And we started a visionary integrator wish list, which has helped with some of that. So I'll put the cake batter onto the wish list and then we'll go through the list and decide what needs to be baked first. So.

So cool.

Yeah, that's really helpful, you know, knowing that the idea is not dead or lost, but it, it has. You know, of course, in traditional EOs, we call that the parking lot, but I think it's a lot more fun to say cake batter list. And knowing that I can say, hey, guys, this is just cake batter. Here goes. I want to. I'm thinking about X, Y, Z. And so it just helps us create that alignment and get stuff done. Still, even though it's just ideas, I love that.

I think that's such a great visual for what's going on in so many visionary integrator relationships. Right. I mean, you talked about Jenny. You think out loud. And Jessica, if I was going to hazard a guess, I would think that your wiring is much more to kind of narrow things down, and instead of throwing a bunch of stuff out, but it's really trying to get it down to the one or two things that we got to focus on.

Yeah, I'm a processor for sure. And we like to say sometimes I'm like the swimming duck, that everything's fine on the surface, but down below, I'm just swimming really fast, processing everything. So, yeah, I think we make a great team. And I'm happy to bake it for her. I'm happy to bake those ideas.

So give for our audience listening a bunch of visionaries and integrators and those that are interested in visionaries and integrators. Give a little context for the size of your company in terms of how many employees you have today. Kind of where you're headed.

Sure. Today we have 10 FTEs, and we are. It's funny, when Jess started with Haven, I think we were at 3 or 4. So it doesn't sound. When I say 10, doesn't sound like a lot. But we've had exponential growth over the last few years, especially when we started to fully implement EOS, and we had 125% growth in just one year. So we're on the fast track, and we are looking to make mavens. 70,000, in fact. And if that takes us up to seven and a half million in revenue and changing lives around the world, we're happy.

Super cool. Love that. Love that clarity. When I come back to the making mavens statement. But before we go there, kind of back to when you brought in EOS and kind of started getting focused on implementing that operating system. You know, you use the word empower when you. When you're talking about your team. And in the beginning, there was maybe not 100% buy in, you know, with your folks in terms of what is this EOS thing we're doing? So tell me a little bit about how you. What was going on there and sort of how you navigated your way through that. That dynamic.

Yeah, I'll start this and then let Jess take it from there. Because I was so excited to roll out the vto, I made this beautiful graphic. We have a mascot. I put the mascot on it. The big goal of where we're going, we roll it out, and we got kind of a deadpan look on everyone's faces. And after the call, I just felt really disheartened, like someone kicked my puppy, and I didn't understand why I was so sad about it. So Jess and I had a download with each other, and we Realized we work really hard to solve communication problems in our business. We believe that all problems start with communication. With communication. We hope to empower our mavens, as we call them. And the piece that was missing there was empowering them. And Jess, I think, had a great idea of how we pulled them along.

So I mean, we started pulling them into those quarterly conversations that we were having with our implementer. And that was helpful to get that buy in early on. And for me as the integrator, one of the things that was challenging when Jenny and I were in the room and then cascading it down to the team was that there was lack of alignment. We would cascade it down to the team, but they weren't in the room listening to it. So I think getting them all in the room really got that buy in from the team. And it's easier for me to hold people accountable to that as well.

That's true too, because we set the goal together.

So we talk about having to repeat ourselves often. Right. And how it takes someone seven times to hear something before it. It actually starts to sink in. And the new data would say it's more like 37 times if it's someone you trust saying it and maybe closer to 87 times if it's someone you don't trust. Right. And so how long did it take? Or maybe it's still an ongoing process, but in terms of repeating yourself before you really started to sense that, okay, it's starting to hit home, it's starting to sink in with our people.

That's a great question, because especially if you have team turnover, you have to keep recommunicating. Right. And so sometimes we forget. And luckily we have one of the lowest turnovers in our industry, which we're pretty proud of our retention rate. But when you do have new people, how do you onboard them? So one of the things we do is we pass around the book what the heck is eos? So that we can already educate what that is before someone comes on as part of our onboarding process. And then we re educate every quarter. We re educate during quarterly conversations. We speak to our core values every moment we possibly can and keep driving home our purpose, our passion, why we exist, so that we can create alignment. And I think to answer how long it took, I think it's a continual process. Right. You don't go to the gym and then all of a sudden you're better, you're strong, you have to keep working. And I look at that as an iterative, long going living document that you have to continually communicate on.

So let me ask that using the gym comparison. So at some point when you're, when you're really working out and you're making progress, you do look in the mirror and you go, okay, I'm seeing a little bit of change. I'm seeing a little bit of difference. So how long was it to that?

I think I would say a year. By the time we had our second or third group session. I feel like that was when everyone really felt true buy in around it. I will say we take our core values very seriously and I think there's been buy in on those from day one. And we reiterate those that that is key to who we are, how we do business and how we treat each other. The VTO as a whole, though, even Jenny and I catch ourselves sometimes being like, we need to go back to the vto. So I think revisiting the full VTO took time.

Yeah, it's interesting how different teams sort of go faster in some areas than others. And it's different by team, kind of depending on what the needs are, what the frustrations are. So that's kind of cool that you. The initial focus or the fastest focus maybe was on those core values and everybody seeing that and kind of nodding their heads. Right.

I think that and the purpose. And I do remember our first retreat where we stepped away from the business. We went up to the mountains in North Carolina and we sat around a circle and just talked about the VTO again and together refined that purpose statement. And that to me was when we got true alignment amongst the entire team because it was like, oh, you know what, this bhag doesn't really resonate with us. Now. It's important that Jess and I obviously set the leadership goals, the revenue goals, what have you. But that, that purposeful go, it was more effective when we had the team work on it together.

So that's like the perfect segue for me to ask you about making mavens. And what does that mean? What does it mean to you?

So making mavens, actually. And I need to give a nod to my first business mentor, Bill Higgs, who started a business and went from 0 to 1 billion with a B in the off road oil engineering firm. And they were about making mustangers. But he taught me the true definition of company culture and how culture, you know, eat strategy for breakfast. Everyone's heard that saying before. But building into your team and so making mavens is a nod to making mustangers, but maven to us rhymes with Haven, it's our name. And maven means expert or connoisseur. And so the root of that is educating to empower. So we share knowledge, cross train, we streamline our handoffs, which everyone knows money and time and effort is lost in handoffs. We work really, really hard to educate our clients because we're in a world in marketing where there's a lot of buzzwords and BS and we work very hard to make sure we are never saying something that someone doesn't understand or they don't know what they're buying. And I think Jess can even speak to the team aspect of how we make mavens of each other.

Yeah, I mean, for me, it's making mavens of our peers and partners, but also our team. Because in my seat, I'm looking at how do we make sure that we're delivering the best to our clients? And it starts with making mavens of each other and making sure that we have each other's backs. And so that's really key to how evaluating our team as well is are we making mavens of one another so that we can deliver the best service to our clients?

Super cool. And I think I heard one of you mention something like 75 mavens is kind of. Is that your 10 year target or something?

70,000. And we actually do track that. So way back when we started out at, I don't know, 10, 15 and a couple hundred, we were around roughly 2,300 today. So making 70,000 mavens is tracked by the amount of clients and customers that we directly have an impact with. So it's not a fluff metric of, oh, we have X number of social media followers. Like this is actually, were we able to educate through a podcast, speaking engagement, webinar, or a client engagement on our brand pillars, which are, you know, strategic communications, branding, PR and advertising.

I love when you can line up something that's tangible with that purpose and just kind of see yourself moving down the road and doing that thing that you've identified that really resonates with you and feels super important. Right. It's that dent you want to make in the universe.

It does feel good. And that's the team goal that we came up with together. And you're right, I think in the world of creative, it's hard to find a true roi, right? A true return on investment of something that's creative and fluffy and, you know, this not real thing. And so we work hard to create something tangible so we know we're working towards that, and I think that's what Jess and I share in common. We're both kind of the GSD achievers, so we like to have those goals to drive us.

I want to know where I'm going for sure.

Right. Helps when you know kind of the game you're playing and what a win looks like.

Yes. What a win looks like. Yes is really important.

Okay, so I've also heard something about Opal. Opal the mascot. Tell me about that and how that fits into all this.

So random. Well, we had an ad in the Charlotte Business Journal, and it was a skinny back page of the ad that was so tall, and I thought, okay, what is the funniest animal? And I googled and it said ostrich. And I thought, I, that's ridiculous, but it looks funny. Let's put it in there. So we had this, you know, full page or the quarter page ad, and it says, what are you looking at? Will help your brand stand out like an ostrich in a business journal. And then we got so much feedback, people laughing about this ridiculous looking ostrich. We decided to name her Opal, which is actually a nod to my grandmother, Opal, who would consistently stick her neck out and talk to every stranger. She's never met a stranger. And so Opal became our mascot, and we now have a puppet. She's been to conventions. We have a full body suit that one of our mavens wears, bless his heart, and we have stickers. And now she really does encompass our core value of being brave. Putting. Sticking your neck out. And then it also is just something iconic that people can kind of chuckle about. And it's. She has her own brand now. So yes, got a lot of light.

Opal is a world traveler. She has been everywhere. She's been to Iceland, she's been to Paris. She's been to Hawaii. She's been everywhere. So she's more worldly than most of us.

Yeah. So the team does travel with Opal, but. But Opal does have her own brand guidelines. Like, she's not allowed to drink and smoke and do anything ridiculous. Like, she actually has brand guidelines.

So when you say world traveler, is that the person in the suit traveling, or is that some representation of Opal that. That moves around?

I wish I had her with me. There's a puppet that I got, and it just. It just took off. Everyone loved Opal, so now Opal might be on vacation. I don't see her in my office.

Honestly, I don't know who has Opal right now because she keeps traveling from team member to team member as a hand puppet. And. Yeah, so she's been all over the world when team. When team members go on trips, they take her and take pictures. So she's everywhere.

All right, so. So I can tell, you know, you two seem to have a pretty. Pretty strong relationship, and strong relationships tend to almost always be based on a high level of trust. So talk to us about how you make that happen. How do you. How did you build. Where did it start, and what did you do to kind of get to where you are today in terms of a strong foundation of trust between the two of you?

Yeah, I'll say that. We firmly believe all problems are communication problems. So like you said, it comes back to trust and respect, which can only come from communication. You know, radically candid, hard conversations. I also think Jess and I align on our core values of the achiever. We come from entrepreneurial backgrounds. Like, there were certain things that already kind of aligned. Blind us there. But over the years, we had to break down the fear of failure. Failure or upsetting each other to have really good, hard conversations. And I also look back and go, we went through Covid together. We've went through family members that have passed away. We went through client downturns together. And each one of those times, being in the trenches, if you will, has brought us out even stronger and better because of that communication. And the bond now we have is really solid.

Yeah.

I mean, we've had a ton of really big wins since I joined the team four years ago. I will say, though, I think it's the downturns, the losses, the really hard stuff that brought us really close together because there was no other option than to push through and to work through it and know that we had each other's backs. So it's like a relationship thing or a marriage. Things are great when they're great, but when they get hard, you've really got to buckle down and have some hard conversations. And I think that building that trust has just made us so much stronger over the years.

It is like a marriage. You don't get along all the time. Right. You gotta communicate, gotta figure it out. Yeah.

It's amazing how many. How many duos I hear refer to it that way. It's their business spouse. It's like that kind of a relationship. It's that important to them. It's that big a deal. They take it that seriously, and they really work at it at that level. They connect at that level. They try to understand what's going on. At that level. And so really that brings me back to how the two of you stay on the same page. So things are moving fast, you're growing fast, a lot of stuff going on, Opal's going all over the place. So how do the two of you, in a structured way, intentionally stay on the same page? What do you do?

So we have had a leadership level 10, which is just Jenny and I for the last two years, I believe, which helps us every week. And then we recently started having monthly lunches and check ins, so we can just talk one to one on how we're doing. Any high level goals, talk through some harder conversations. And I actually took that from. I went to the master forum for integrators back in January and I came back and I was like, we should have same page conversations. So since doing that, I think that it's been a nice mix of solving the issues in level 10, but also being able to have some higher level conversations in our same page meeting as well.

I'm going to add a footnote to that. I realized a little bit ago that every time my phone would ring and I saw Jess's number and I'm sorry, Jess, probably first time you're hearing this, I would get a pit in my stomach because I was like, oh, crap, bad news. Like I just, because she's the operator, you know, And I thought, oh my God. Happened. Someone quit. A client's mad. For a couple months last fall, we were going through so much hell. And since we started having lunch, it took that fear away from me too. It was like, oh, wait, that's right. We can still have fun together. We can still, still, yeah. Okay, this is good. And it brought back the joy in having that partnership and it made it less like something was wrong. And I, yeah, I, I, I recognize that. Once we started having lunches together, I was like, oh, yeah, okay, this is good.

How long do those lunches tend to last?

Probably 90 minutes, I would say. We, I mean, they say an hour, but we typically go over an hour on our lunches.

Well, yeah, so, so it should be as long as it needs to be, right? So however long that is. Today's episode is sponsored by New Economy cpa. Have you ever felt frustrated because you're not getting what you want out of the data component of your business? If so, meet New Economy. New Economy helps companies running on eos gain control of their financial data to make smart decisions to build and grow their business. With a mission to unleash the first full potential of the entrepreneur New Economy provides outsourced streamlined bookkeeping and accounting services. Outsourced controller and CFO services, tax consulting and tax preparation services. Visit neweconomycpa.com to learn more. Who do you find brings more issues? And who do you find tends to talk more during those lunches?

Oh, we'll talk more, obviously.

Me, I think Jenny's tends to talk more. As far as issues, I would say we. We bring equal amount of issues, I would say. But like we noted earlier, Jenny definitely processes out loud where I'm more of an internal processor. So when I'm bringing an issue, I probably have already thought through like some of those things, whereas. And that's okay, Jenny. That's who you are. But you are like that external thinker. So we're just different in how we present things. For sure.

So helpful to learn that about myself. Like when she said that and I learned that, I was like, okay, that's okay. I process out loud. It's just something I know now about myself.

I've started doing it too, though. Sometimes it's funny. It's rubbed off on me. My husband's like, do you want me to do this or are you just talking out loud? So I think that it's funny how we rub off on each other.

Yeah. So it's nobody's responsibility to fully adapt to the other one, but we kind of find our space in between us. Right. We're all different and that's great.

Absolutely.

So, Jess, I'm curious. Some integrators have figured out sort of a cheat code for the best way to communicate with their visionary. And literally, I've had some integrators tell me, oh, no, if I'm going to ask them about that or if I'm going to tell them this kind of thing, I do it at this stage of the meal, you know, either before the food or after the food or, you know, when you're doing right. So. So they literally so anything like that, Jess. And if, you know, at the risk of letting Jenny know what your. Your ninja brain is doing that you.

Discovered, I don't think I'm that granular with my timing of things. I will say Jenny just wants the headlines. So when I'm communicating with her, when I'm sending her an email, it's, here's the headline, here's the bullet points, and this is what I need from you in red. And it's very clear on what the ask is so that she's not having to search through and figure out what the ask is.

Yeah, I don't need to know how the sausage is made. I just like, please bring me the headlines and then bring me a solution and we'll talk through solutions. Don't bring me problems. And that's something that we talk about often. I would suggest you always make sure I have food. We, we have a thing where we don't want to get hangry and it's definitely a theme on our team that we will not do anything unless food is involved somewhere because that makes everything harder if you're hangry.

So that literally may be the most popular answer on that question I just asked. Is there something about feeding people that chills them out a little bit and makes them more open to whatever it is that we want to talk about? So, Jenny, you remind me the thinking out loud behavior. Sometimes I see visionaries that they think out loud in front of the team and sometimes there's some interesting side effects of that. Have you ever experienced that? Or Jess, have you ever seen, seen that play out?

Yeah, I mean, I think we definitely have. I think over the last year, like Jenny said, once we identified the cake batter, she's been a lot better about maybe saving it for a one on one meeting with her and I, and then I can communicate it with the team or she'll chat it to me. There are still some times where the team will be like, I think Jenny meant this, but I want to check with you and they're coming to me for that. So I'm, I'm fine with that. I think that works. I speak Jenny. I like to think so. I think a lot of times I can be the one that clarifies that and that's what I should be doing. So I'm happy to do that for the team.

Sort of a translator.

Exactly.

Over the last year it was very helpful realizing I'll stop and check myself now and go, is this cake batter? Let me wait before I say something that is a great fun idea but hasn't been fully processed and I don't want to make promises I can't deliver on. So those are. It is incredibly important to me to not say something. But you know, I'm also an EO and I have a lot of opportunity to share with my forum mates and walking through these different ways with other outlets before I dump things on the team and I don't want to do that to them. It's not, it's not a place for it. That's where Jess and I can work through before they get those ideas.

So overall, I think our Team communication is very strong in general and it's really important to us that we practice radical candor and just being clear with one another on what's expected and how we're going to do it, I think has helped our team be efficient and successful.

And the quarterly conversations have been huge. You know, being able to walk, there's no surprises when it comes to annuals and things. The quarterly conversation is like, really helped. Chef's kiss.

Super important. So what's the toughest thing? You know, you guys have made a lot of progress with your relationship. All the things that you, you just shared, so. But it's a never ending journey. Right. Mastery goes on forever. So what's the, you know, what's the next opportunity area? The, you know, the current challenge that sort of top of mind in terms of the power of your relationship, what are you working on?

I would answer that as growth and continuing to ensure that the brand is not diluted through the layers. You know, you see larger corporations, businesses, as they scale, not being able to instill the values all the way down. And I think we are at such a smaller team to where we can have a tighter, close knit to those. Well, I'll say to the founder, as far as this is my brand, this is who we are, this is how we operate. And then as you grow, you want to ensure that that still filters all the way through. And when we say making mavens or we say we don't sell buzzwords or that, is the team still saying that? Are they still practicing those things? And how do you ensure that, you know, throughout the business?

Yeah, I mean, I think for me a little bit to echo what Jenny said, it's making sure that as we grow in scale, everyone's still beating to the same drum. And you know, sometimes there's going to be someone who might not be the right fit and that's okay, but we've gotten better about making those decisions faster. And I think the more we scale and the more we grow and the more clients that we're serving, coming back to our VTO and who we are is going to be more and more important.

So bring it down now. The same question in terms of challenges and what you're still kind of working on specific to your visionary integrator relationship. So what's the next big thing to kind of, you know what, we've still got some room to grow, some room to improve here. What's your opportunity there?

I mean, I think that a number one thing is always people. Right. We're a Service, organization. So our people are our greatest asset. And so the next level up is now inviting more to our leadership team. You know, creating that structure and building that out and then making sure that we don't break or lose anything because this culture is so tight and so great as it is. Like, how do you keep maintaining that great communication, strong company culture while building out your leadership team and building that next layer? And so that is what's next for us.

Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see what that next step is, building out the leadership team, because right now it is Jenny and us and then the rest of the team. So building that out is the next step.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how the dynamic changes when you bring somebody else into that room, into that team. The chemistry always changes a little bit. And you've got to kind of redo the trust thing. You've got to relearn how we work together as a group in a new dynamic. So that'll be a fun ride for you both.

Fun, fun. I'll be reaching out to you, Mark, when we get there because I would love to have some experience shares on that. One other thing I was to say is like, when. When Jess and I talk about building trust and for those that are familiar with eo, we're going to walk through a lifeline together, her and I, when we get to our. We're having our retreat next week and it's something that we're. I've never pulled anything from EO specific out of form into my relationship with Jess. And I think this is a great opportunity for us to connect on a more personal level. So we'd be doing in the Lifeline exercise and I'm looking forward to that. And so maybe when we build leadership, we do it just like similarly to how Forum is and do Lifelines and.

Yeah, super, super powerful exercise. I remember over 20 years ago, the first time I did that, very powerful. So, Jessica, you went to Integrator Masterclass. So you picked up some things. You started doing your same page meetings and you picked up Integrator report card that it sounds like you have somehow modified. So I want to hear about that.

We did.

We love to make things our own. So we had the Integrator scorecard and I ran through it with Jenny and her, and I just felt like there were some pieces that were missing as far as things that Jenny would want to be held accountable for versus things I would want to be held accountable for. So we kind of smushed together a couple of Scorecards. And now Jenny is accountable for, I think, three areas on the scorecard and then that are more people, culture focused and then accountable for more of the operations piece on there. And we're going to try it this quarter, so.

Very cool. Yeah. So just a little update. You know, we have the integrated report card, we call it, that really focuses on the 10 pillars of what it takes to be truly great as an integrator. And we've recently introduced a program for visionaries. And so we have a visionary masterclass, the 10 pillars of what it looks like to be truly great as a visionary, and of course, a report card to go along with that. So I don't know how similar they are to. To what y' all have, but we. We feel the same. The same thing. And so that's me, because when I.

Was there, I was like, do the visionaries have a scorecard? And they were like, not yet. And I was like, how's that fair? So I'm glad that there's another scorecard.

We've been listening. Yeah.

So Jess and I are like, no, we want to have. Let's have a visionary interviewer scorecard, because that's not fair. We need to hold each other accountable.

So. Yeah, I love it. I love it. So back to the beginning. I'm curious. What was it that brought EOS rocket fuel? Really, I'm most interested in the whole visionary integrator structure. What was it that first introduced that to who? And then how was it received by the other one when you brought that together?

I get excited about this question because I told you about my early stage mentors. 2015. I was on an airplane flying to Houston. I have this little black notebook. I'm jotting in it. And the woman next to me said, are you in college? And I said, what? No, because I was reading Traction and writing notes. And so I think she thought I was taking a class in something, but I was just scribbling in there, me, by myself, going, what's our vision? What's our purpose? What's our values? You know? And I said, I want to do a million by 2020. And at that time, I was doing, I don't know, $26,000 in revenue. So I had no idea. But I read Traction because a friend of a friend recommended it to me. And it. I was so excited, so ready to go, but I was by myself. And so for many years, five years, to be specific, I didn't have the do it person. And I do share some scores with both sides. Visionary integrator. But I really knew I needed the person to help me integrate. So I'd been saying it for a while and then Covid hit and I luckily was able to scoop up Jessica. And as soon as she started I was like, oh, she's definitely the get shit done kind of person. But then probably took another year or so for us to fully go, yeah, let's do this as true EOS with an implementer and then take it from there.

So Jessica, when you heard of the integrator role and what we really mean by that, what was your reaction? What was your initial response?

So actually I think it was at a EO accelerator day that we went to together, Jenny, and you were like, I could see you in this role and it was the integrator role. And I was like, okay. And I started. She got me rocket fuel and I, I read through it and I read through it in a couple of hours I think, because I thought it was so interesting and I took the assessment I was a full integrator. I think I got like an 86 on the integrator side. Jenny unlocked that superpower for me though. And I don't think I would have known that that was what I was really good at unless I had the push because I just didn't know. I didn't know that operations was really what I was passionate about. I didn't know that the GSD was my superpower, if you will. And I feel like we've just been able to really hone in on that the last couple of years and I'm just thankful that I had someone who saw that in me.

How is your life, Jenny, different now than it was then?

Being an entrepreneur, a solopreneur is incredibly lonely and you really can't step away from the business. I had a young child at the time and then I had my little bit older son and no life. I couldn't step away. And when Jess came in, was able to help with processes and training and getting people going and moving in the right direction. I was like, oh my God, this is what I always envisioned and that's why I always wanted. But I couldn't do it alone. And I was able to step away from the business and look at it from that 50,000 foot view and dream about what it could be and see it actually happen and actually be delivered and have time with my family, you know, and that is an un explain. I can't tell you the words I have right of how important that is in my life and how it's helped Me. And it's. It is an invaluable partnership.

Love that, Jess. How does that make you feel to hear that?

Makes me want to cry. But I think that I just know Jenny's got my back. She's always got my back and best interests at heart. And I think that I tell people about Haven and what I'm doing, and Jenny and everyone's like, you are just so lucky. And, yes, I am lucky. Luck is part of it. But her and I work our butts off, and we are a great partner. We have a great partnership. And I think that it takes work and dedication and grit, and I'm just thankful that I have her to go crazy with it.

I'm led to ask you one more question, which is, all right, fast forward five years. How does your relationship look different five years from now than it does today?

For me, I would love to pull Jess even more out of the business, like we said, creating that structure so that we can both fully live our lives into a way we can build that company culture, build the team, you know, and we can both experience making mavens around the world together. I just see us doing that, and I'm excited. We often talk about how can we take what we've done at Haven, our company culture and building community, and help other businesses do that. And so the only way we can get there is if I pull her even up out of the business the way that she did for me.

So, yeah, for me, I think it's building out the right leadership team and keeping building our team of mavens. We have an amazing team right now. I would hire every single one of them again, which I think is a testament to the foundation that we've built. And it's just keeping that going.

I love it. Yep. So next hill to climb, right? And right what I can see you're both very dedicated to doing the work. You recognize that it's not easy. It's hard, and you got to work at it every day. And. But you're doing it. You're feeling it. And so I'm super appreciative to both of you for sharing. Sharing your stories here today. Before we sign off, if somebody wants to find out more about your. Your company or about either one of you, what's the best way for them to reach out or go find out more?

Appreciate that. Yes. Our website, haven creative agency.com. um, also on Instagram and LinkedIn at Maven Jenny. And LinkedIn is Jenny Elliott Buchole.

I find me on LinkedIn. Jessica Blackshaw.

We love to educate, to empower. So questions and experience shares bring us.

Driving that number all the way to 70,000. Right, right.

That's the thing. Like, we've got to share knowledge so that we can help other people avoid the pitfalls. So we. And we're trying to stay out of the valley of death. Right?

Super cool. Super cool. Well, again, thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your experience with us today. And you're having that impact. So hopefully there's some folks that listen to this episode that can add to your maven count. You know, I know that our audience got. Got value from that experience, and hopefully it helps them kind of, kind of move along and get there maybe a little faster, maybe with a little bit less pain. You know, we don't all have to make the same mistake every time. We can learn, learn from each other. And so to our, to our listeners, thanks for listening. If you like what you're hearing in this podcast, you know, please give it a review. That's how other people find out about it. This. And we just, you know, like these two fine ladies, we want to help as many folks as we can. Wow, what a fantastic discussion with Jenny and Jessica. So let's go to the rocket fuel toolbox and kind of anchor some of the concepts down from our conversation. So one of the things that jumped out to me from this episode is the way that Jenny talked about how she thinks out loud. And that's just a common pattern that we see for visionaries is they. They want to be divergent in their thinking. They don't really want to take any of options off the table, and they're thinking out loud and they're processing. And so it's important to realize that the integrator is wired in exactly the opposite, although complementary way, where they want to bring all those options down to a narrow set. You know, one thing, maybe a couple of things, and get this other stuff off the table so they can really focus on executing and moving it forward. So this creates a structure that referred to as the diamond of creativity. So think about it getting wide and then getting narrow. Right? It's like a diamond shape. And so it really is helpful for both the visionary and the integrator to realize that that's what's going on, because then they can. They can be more accepting, they can be a little bit more patient with the other one as they're bringing their appropriate style of thinking into that conversation. That's really going to help us, help us move forward. One of the other tools that you heard mentioned was the same page meeting, right? So, so Jessica picked that up in the, you know, the Integrator masterclass training thinks that's a good idea and so brought it back in their there of a monthly meal where they sit down. And one of the things that we see a lot there is you'll bring up same page meeting. And a lot of times the visionary will say something like, well, I see them every day. Your offices are right next to each other. We see them in the hall all the time. We're always running at each other. We're always on the same page. And the reality is when you have those hit and run conversations, they're not the same. They're not the same as a conversation where you've intentionally set time aside to really go deep and talk about that thing that you just know you're not going to have time to talk about in the hall, so you don't bother to bring it up. But if we have 90 minutes or several hours or something set aside for us just to get into anything we need to get into, that's when it's going to come out. And so the prescription again for the same page meeting is at least once a month, you're getting together for as long as it takes, and sometimes it may take a long time, but you're going to go through your list of all those issues where you think maybe we're not on the same page right now, now, or there's something coming where we may end up not on the same page, or you just want to check to make sure we are on the same page, whatever those things are, and work through your list. You know, I'll try one, you try one. And we kind of go back and forth and take turns until we've cleared our list, get 100% on the same page. And we walk out of that meeting locked arm in arm, presenting a fully aligned same page representation of our VI duo to the rest of the organization. And then, you know, the final tool I'll comment on was the report card. So again, Jessica picked that up in the Integrator masterclass. And so we've got a formal integrator report card tool that's, that's defined. And since that, since she went to that training, we've got a visionary report card as well. They talked about the feeling of wanting to both have things that they're accountable for. Both of these report cards anchor in what we talk about as the 10 pillars of what it takes to be truly great in that role as an integrator, the 10 pillars of integrator greatness and as a visionary, the 10 pillars of visionary Greatness. And of course we have, you know, a master class to help you learn what those are and what that looks like so that if you truly want to be great in that role, in your role, do that training. And then you know that of course is also the doorway for you to join the the Integrator or Visionary Mastery Forum. So you get a community talked about the EO community and how that's helpful. Right? It's important to be in some kind of a peer group where you can learn from others. You're going to hear things from them that you haven't gone through yet. And a lot of times hearing and learning from the experience of others that are trying to do the same kind of thing that you're trying to do. It's just an accelerator. It gets you there a little bit faster, it gets you there with a lot less pain and just helps you make get more of whatever it is that you want so you get the most power out of your visionary innovator duo relationship. So that is the toolbox for today. Go to rocketfuel university.com be sure that you are a part of our community of visionaries and integrators and take that assessment. If you haven't already, find out where you stand, what is your Visionary Integrator Indicator Score and help you understand yourself, see if this is something that can help you and then you know, whatever the next step that's appropriate might be for you. So until next time, Go Rocket. Thank you for listening today. I really hope this episode inspired you to bring rocket fuel to your business. If you're interested in learning more about the free community for visionaries, integrators and the people who support them, please visit rocketfueluniversity.com. How do you get rid of the frustration and uncertainty that so often gets in the way of running a successful business? Master the metrics that matter. In April, we're releasing the latest addition to the EOS Mastery Series Data. Harness your numbers to go from uncertain to unstoppable. To teach you how, get excited to master your data component and pre order your copy now@eosworldwide.com traction library.