186: Blending science and soul with intuitive psychology, ft. Jill Ritchie and Sarah Gregg

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. Hello everyone, welcome back to the Canny Crystals podcast. I'm your host Mart Tweedy, and today I have a very special episode lined up for you, and I believe that this is one that is going to absolutely blow your mind and soul wide open. I am joined by two powerhouse women who are literally reshaping the world of personal transformation. We've got Sarah Gregg and Jill Ritchie. They are co-founders of the Intuitive Psychology Association. And if you've ever felt like you're doing all the mindset work but still not seeing the results that you want, or you've been trying to follow your intuition but you keep on second-guessing yourself, then this conversation is for you. So Sarah is a psychologist, she's a best-selling author, and she's a mind coach who has helped thousands of people rewire their subconscious and access deeper flow states. She's also sold over 90,000 copies of her own book, and she brings such a grounded, evidence-based perspective to personal growth. And Jill, she is a sought-after intuitive coach. She's worked with Olympians, celebrities, and high-performing entrepreneurs to help them break through their inner resistance and reconnect with their soul. Her work blends energy, subconscious reprogramming, and deep soul guidance. But together they have created the Intuitive Psychology Association, which I believe is the world's first and only accredited coach training that fuses modern psychology with intuitive wisdom. And their mission is to show you that the gap between where you are and where you want to be isn't about knowing more, it's about tuning in more. So we're going to dive into everything from how to activate your sixth sense to the science of intuition, shadow alchemy, and why traditional coaching just isn't cutting it anymore. So whether you're a coach, whether you're a seeker, or just someone on a personal growth journey, it's time to buckle up because this episode is going to awaken something in you. So Jill, Sarah, thank you so much for being here. How are you both?

Thank you so much for having us. I feel like I'm fangirling over here.

That was fantastic. We are so happy to be here. I have an intuitive feeling that this is going to be a really powerful episode. So thank you so much for having us.

No, you're very welcome. I really hope that a lot of listeners get something out of this because I feel like I'm going to get something out of this as well. So would you mind just starting by telling us your backstory and how you got to where you are today?

So in terms of my backstory, my, my backstory starts from a place of quite shaky foundations, actually. I think it kind of goes back to 8 years ago now where I had manifested a lot of things in my life. I ticked a lot of boxes. You know, I had a very successful career. I worked as a business coach at university. I was married. I had a house externally. Like, everything looked good. But on the inside, I felt just this real deep sense of unfulfillment. I didn't know who I was. I didn't know what I liked, and I felt really, really lost and actually quite resentful. If I'm being really radically honest, quite angry that I'd been the good girl in life. I ticked all of the boxes and done everything that I was meant to do and be, the people pleaser, the performer, the perfectionist. And yet there was no reward of happiness. And so I started to really question, okay, well, if none of this is making me happy and if I don't know who I am, then what if it all went away? What if I gave it all up? So, um, 8 years ago I made the radical decision to literally throw myself off the treadmill because I, I didn't even have the capacity to slow down the speed. So I sold my house, my car, I left my successful job, I sold everything, like literally the cutlery in the house, everything was gone. And I kept my husband, because he's all right, so he came with me. Um, and I headed off with a backpack and a blank canvas and no real idea of where I was going or what I wanted to do, but I wanted to tune into my intuition and I wanted to create a life from a place of deep authenticity. And that led me on the most incredible adventure. I set up my business, I traveled the world for over 7 years, um, I got a book deal, you know, within 1 year I went from you know, no business, no kind of like business experience, no idea how to work social media or how to write a blog, to hosting a book launch in New York City. And it's just been the most incredible adventure that has ultimately led me to this point of fusing intuition and psychology together in my proudest venture to date. Yeah, with the most incredible co-founder and business partner, Jill.

Oh, I know all the love, and I love hearing Sarah's story. And it's funny because we've heard these stories, we've shared these stories with with people before, but it still feels so amazing to hear it back. And my story is— I have the same, same but different. It's very similar, but it's very different because at the same time— so what's really similar is it was around about the same time that I started to get into this world of personal development. When it came to personal development, I thought it was just something that you did at work and it was on your personal development plan at work. That was my level of personal development. And actually it was about 7 and a half years ago that I left my corporate job. So I had been in senior leadership in a corporate bank for almost 21 years. I know I do not look that old, Mark, but I had sort of got into that from school. You know, the funny thing is I was really, really terrible at maths. It was my worst subject. I failed maths, but I ended up in banking. But what I was really passionate about and really good at was speaking to people. And just communicating with people. And I was very, very good at my job because I was very, very good with people. But what really changed for me was when I had my children. So I'm a mum, I've got 2 children. One has just turned 11 and the other's turned 14. But when I became a mum, I was still trying to do the 60+ hours a week and still look a certain way. And still go to the gym and be this amazing mum. And I couldn't do it all. I tried, I tried, but I really struggled with my own mental health.

Yeah.

But at the time, I mean, it's evolved a lot, but at the time no one really talked about that. And especially in the senior role that I was in, it was seen as weak, and I would have been overlooked for meetings, I would have been gossiped about. That was a fact. I'd seen it done to others, I knew it would happen to me. And so I kept it silent for years, for probably about 3 years before I actually got to a point where I had to leave because my hair was falling out. I averaged about 3 to 4 hours a night sleep for a couple of years, and I didn't know myself. I would come home at night, I'd cry in the car before going into work. I'd cry in the car when— before I got into the house at night. And I went to the doctors, they tried to prescribe me with antidepressants. And even then, although I'd never dabbled in any form of meditation or self-development, and that was only 7 and a half years ago, and I knew that, I knew intuitively that that wasn't the answer for me because I was papering over the cracks. I needed to understand what was going on because another layer of shame would have went on the top of the fact that I was taking something. And then how do you come off that thing? And I dived into a free meditation on YouTube. And this is why I say to people, you don't need all of the resources, you just need to want and really desire to make that decision to change. I did a 30 Days Beginner's Meditation, and that was the catalyst for me changing and transforming my life. I went— I really, when I went into that space, I was really tapped into my intuition. Not in the beginning, I struggled with it. Undoubtedly my mind was very, very busy, but I was committed to it. But I quickly realized how I could really tap into my intuition. I left my job. Which was a massive scary thing for me to do, having a big mortgage, 2 children, cars, a certain lifestyle that I was living. And it is the best decision I ever made. Within a few months, I had replaced my corporate income working less than half of the hours that I did. I had freedom to work from wherever I wanted in the world. And yeah, I created an award-winning podcast, and it's just been absolutely incredible. And as Sarah said, from that you just evolve and grow all the time, right? You're always growing and evolving. We are, we are nature after all, and we're part of nature. And so when we created Intuitive Psychology just 2 years ago this week, we just celebrated 2 years of our birthday, and it's just been the most incredible, proudest thing I've ever done in my career.

So when did you kind of both first realize that, you know, fusing science and spirituality could actually like unlock a deeper transformation than either one could offer alone.

So we were observing coaches come and go in the industry a lot. You know, we saw— we've seen a huge rise in well-being and personal development, which is incredible. But we were noticing coaches would come onto the scene and then they quickly disappear. Whereas in our own individual businesses, we were really scaling and growing at a significant rate. You know, I had book deals, was speaking on stages. Jill was working with, you know, Olympians, celebrities, running incredible group programs, and we were noticing that we were getting results that other people couldn't. And when we got together over various conversations, we were trying to distill down, okay, what is the commonality in our approach? Like, what are we doing? And I was using an evidence-based approach, and Jill was highly intuitive. She's one of the best coaches that I've ever, like, observed or witnessed her work. So we started to model out like, what are the similarities? Like, what are we doing? So I brought a bit of my— like, we call ourselves like the nerd and the magic. Like, I'm the nerd, Jill's definitely the magic. And we started to distill down what is it that we're doing that, that has the commonality. And it was using intuition in an evidence-based way. It was using intuition in a way that was really helping our clients go deeper and further and get faster results and really work with subconscious unconscious mind. And so it was from that point that we really, we knew to be true anyway, that modern psychology and science is only really catching up from what we know from spirituality to be true. Like, there's so much evidence of that in our everyday life. We look at gratitude practices or meditations, all of those stem back to ancient tribes and times, you know, Buddhist monks, for example. So we're proving that what people were naturally and intuitively doing actually creates results. So the two are not separate, they're part of the same whole and half.

So how do you kind of balance that neuroscience and then intuitive wisdom in your coaching approach without one overshadowing the other then? Because obviously you were just saying there it's a good mix of it, but how do you balance that neuroscience and the intuitive wisdom?

So that's a brilliant question. So whenever you think about intuition, most people will think of it like a nudge or an intuitive gut feeling, right? We've probably all had those moments. Perhaps you can even think of one now. Maybe you've walked into a job interview and it's felt a little bit off, or you've been in a bar or a situation and just had this feeling, even about a person, that something isn't right. That's just a snippet of what's possible in intuition. So in those moments, the gut reaction is so strong that it floods consciousness and it alerts your attention in real time to say something isn't quite right here. But intuition is always active beneath the surface, and it's much more than that. So intuition is an incredible healing tool that we have. It enables us to directly communicate with the subconscious, unconscious mind. And when we do that, it enables to us to bring new awareness into our consciousness. So a really easy way to put this is whenever we're trying to create change— so if you're trying to manifest something right now, it's likely that regardless of what you're manifesting— a relationship, a career, um, maybe something to do with your health— you want to change something in your life. And you can't solve your problems from the same level of consciousness that created them. Cannot solve your problems from the same level of consciousness that created them. So often we go about our days in this habitual loop. So we think 90,000 thoughts a day, and most of those are the same thoughts from yesterday. So we're trying to create this change, but just with the same thought processes all of the time. And we often have to really muster up a lot of energy, you know, stay in that high vibrational state, like think positive. And then we get really drained and then we stop and then we kind of go back again. But actually what intuition does is it ushers into consciousness new awareness. So it enables us to see possibilities that didn't exist before. It leads us on that journey to understanding maybe what blocks we have, what resistance we have, things from our past that are holding us back from aligning in the present to that compelling future. And it does it in a way that's really safe for consciousness. So when we dial down the mind and close our eyes and we ask questions from an intuitive place, Intuition communicates with us in the form of symbols and metaphors. And so, for example, you know, a client might see like a rope kind of tying their hands together and they'll tell a story about how I just feel tied and I feel stuck. Now, we're not retraumatizing ourselves by revisiting the past. We're not on long, complex narratives. We just quickly and easily get these rapid insights into ourselves that are true for us and enables us to apply those insights really quickly and really easily to create the change that we want to see in our lives.

I love that. That's so interesting. So why do you believe then that so many people kind of, in inverted commas, do the work but then still feel stuck? Like, how does your method change that?

Yeah, I think it's such a great question as well, Mark, because so there are so many ways I could answer this. The biggest thing we see is people trying to mimic what other people are doing. So we see across social media, do it this way, do it that way, do it this way, do it that way. And what that does is it takes the client and it's really disempowering because what it does is we're like, okay, so this person, this guru says I should do it this way. And if I say these affirmations or if I visualize what they're telling me to visualize, then I'm going to get the thing. And what happens is sometimes it works to a degree, and often it doesn't work. And what happens then is we layer more shame on top of ourselves. It didn't work for me. I'm not good enough. What's the matter with me? Or we go into judgment. This is fake. This doesn't work. What we do is everyone, every single person has intuition. It's not that Sarah's got it and Jill's not, or Mart's got it and Sarah's not. Every one of us have it. But the more we outsource, the more we become disconnected from it. So an intuitive psychology is always about how do we bring the individual back to self, back to essence. Now, you would have probably— if anyone's ever sat with a coach or maybe been coached, they've seen something like the Wheel of Life.

Yeah.

When you sit down with something, you're like, okay, here's finance, here's my relationships, all of these things. And it's like, how do we get our goals and point them towards that. What we do within intuitive psychology is we have, uh, ours is called the Intuitive Authenticity Scale. So every goal, when we're sitting with a client or our coaches are working with a client, it's how do you bring a client back to essence, back to authenticity? How is every goal that a client comes to you with measured on the Intuitive Authenticity Scale? Is this goal really aligned to this client, or is this something that they think once they achieve will make them happy? And we do that by eyes closed coaching. So all of our techniques, and I'd say probably 95% of the time that we spend with a client, their eyes are closed.

Why?

Because we are closing down the personal thinking mind. We are dropping them out of the busyness of the mind, of the conscious mind, which is only 5%. 95% is the unconscious subconscious, and we are coaching directly the unconscious. So we are communicating directly with that. And although everyone goes through our techniques and our training and our methods, everyone, because they are so unique and they're so different, they have their own individual print, um, will receive something different. And it is always about, is this aligned to the client's authenticity? Because if it's not aligned to their authenticity, No matter what they achieve or what they receive or what they try and strive for, it is never going to make them happy. And we see this time and again with celebrities, with influencers, with people in the public eye who seem to have it all— money, wealth, all of the things, all of the shiny— yet they are deeply unfulfilled and disconnected because they are disconnected from their intuition, from their true essence. And our, our main goal is to bring people back to essence and to authenticity. Because what happens then is when we are in that beautiful state of connection and authenticity, um, the past makes sense and we can create a really compelling, beautiful, and aligned future. And that happens in rapid time, and it's a byproduct of who you are being.

Yeah, I love that. And something that you just said there as well was quite interesting about coaching with your eyes closed, because it just made me think of, you know, like if you think of traditional therapy where they would get you to lie on a chaise longue, for example, in a psychologist's room. And I was thinking, is that why they get you to lie on a chaise longue, so that you're staring at the ceiling and then you're taking your mind off everything else that's going on around you?

It could be, actually. It could be. It's such a powerful and simple thing to do. You know, we are a world within a world, and when we're when even we're having a conversation with someone, we're always picking up those external cues like, is the person nodding? Like, is what I'm saying okay? But when we close down the eyes, we're able to access intuition and really connect to our inner world. Not only does the narrative slow down, but also we're able to feel and sense how it feels in our body. We can sense that resistance. And this is how we work with intuition in a really active state. And it's so, so powerful. And like Jill said, it's available to all of us.

Yeah. Are there any other practical ways that, you know, my listeners can begin to actively use their intuition in, say, daily decision-making as well?

Yes, definitely. So really simply, you can close down your eyes and ask yourself some questions. So when we quiet the mind, we know from the science and psychology that this helps move us into an alpha brainwave state. So in the state intuition is really, really active. So you can just close down your eyes, take a few breaths and then go inwards and just ask your intuition. It's, it's like your inner teacher, your inner guru, the questions that you would like to know the answers to and see what presents itself to you. If you want to go deeper with this, we've got an incredible free resource that we can share called The Question Method, and it's got 22 questions that you can use and work with your intuition on. If you don't feel really comfortable closing down your eyes, which is normal, we want to say, you know, I remember whenever I when I first did my first meditation workshop, I lasted 2 sessions and I was like, this isn't for me. I can't, I can't slow down my mind. I absolutely hate this. So if you're at that stage, we also get it. And the really good news is, is actually if you can write and just free flow, right, it's another incredible way to access your intuition as well. So you can take these questions and you can journal and just, you know, don't get in your head about what the right answer is. Just allow the answers to flow and you'll notice how you get these spontaneous downloads. Especially when you go back and read it again, how the answers present themselves to you. And this is really the underlying mission of intuitive psychology. It is to bring us back to the core of our truth. So intuition comes from the Latin intui, which means to see or to look at. And psychologist Frances Vaughan said it's the truth when it's the truth manifest. So in other words, it means to see the truth. And we look for the truth in so many different sources, but we want to show people how it's already within you. Like, you are your own guru, you are your own guide.

Yeah. So kind of what does it look like to activate your sixth sense then? Is that something totally different, you know, rather than just passively waiting for intuitive hits?

No.

So your sixth sense in terms of psychology literally is your intuition. It's, it's, it's a sense that we don't normally use. You know, how often do we close down our eyes in everyday life and ask ourselves questions? Or how often Do we listen to our gut instinct? But a really great example is, you know, think about a time whenever you've gone against your gut.

Yeah.

Like, how well has that ever worked out for any of us? Yeah, not great. So our intuition holds so much wisdom, but it's much more than just waiting for those intuitive hits. It's a daily practice in the same way that we meditate, in the same way that we practice gratitude. We can also take that time each day to really connect in with our intuition and just notice what we notice about maybe how we're feeling right now, maybe how we really feel about our job or that person, or if we want some answers about the future as well. Like, what should I move towards? Like, what if I do? What if I don't? It can really bring us closer to what feels right for us and drown out a lot of that external noise that exists in the world right now.

It is such a practice. Like Sarah said, she, she managed 2 meditations before she was like, no, it's not for me. A few years ago, for me, I couldn't even do it for 30 seconds. That is how busy my mind was. But here's the thing, I've said this before, what we are not changing, we are choosing. And it is a practice. It's like exercising our muscles, you know. And I do it like I brush my teeth every day now because I know how good it makes me feel. But I also know that it was challenging and my mind would jump in and say, oh, this isn't working, this is rubbish. I'll just do what I've always done. But notice, where is that getting you to now? And people, when I— I mean, I have coached so many people and they will come with an initial goal, right? I want to get this or more money. I want to manifest all these things. But when we go underneath it, what people really want is inner peace. Yeah, like that's it. They want to, no matter what is happening around them, they want to feel deeply connected to a sense of peace. They want to be able to put their head down on the pillow at night and feel like they can sleep well-rested, feel good about who they are, feel confident in using their voice and asking for what they want. And actually, as a byproduct of that, we do manifest more of that because we are obviously— it's an energetic frequency, right? And but to get there, we need to really start to listen to our inner world, not the mind. And I think something I want to just say is being careful when you are— maybe you're in that space and you're asking yourself a question, you're going off on a really long narrative. Notice that's you back in your mind, because when you're in your intuition, it is really less about explanations and long stories and long, complex stories. Is much more about a feeling, a sense, knowing. It's a knowing without consciously knowing in the mind. It's a knowing in here. And that can feel really scary for people because so many people have never done that for themselves because we live in a society where we are conditioned to outsource. Yeah, but your way— and this is for anyone listening— your way is the right way. Regardless of what anyone else says or thinks, Síle and I can give you advice and guidance and support, but we always say your way is the right way. But it is a practice, and it's saying to yourself every day, whether that is journaling, whether that is just that practice of, okay, I'm going to take 10 deep connected breaths, or maybe even 5, and I'm just going to visualize my mind just getting softer and, you know, turning down the volume of the noise in my mind. And then I'm going to take another deep breath and I'm going to drop into my heart space and I'm going to ask my heart one question: what do I need? What do I need right now? And just wait, hold the pause and wait, because it will be a color, it'll be one word, it'll be an image or an energy. That's it. Don't doubt it, don't second-guess it, write it down and give yourself that. What that does is it builds trust within you and yourself. Builds that trust muscle up. So suddenly, after a few times of doing this, you're able to drop in, you're getting more, the downloads are coming in. And that's when we're so connected to source, to your higher, you know, your higher self, higher intelligence. And that is the magic that so many people want to connect to. But whilst we're outsourcing all the time, we're taking ourselves further away from it.

I've had this happen so many times. In fact, it's even the reason why I'm called Canny Crystals. So just to put it into perspective, 2019 I lost my granddad, and that sent me on a bit of a mental health decline. I was working in mental health in the NHS at the time, ironically, and I just thought, how am I helping all of these people to do better with their own mental health, but I'm suffering inside in silence? And, um, you know, I went down a huge rabbit hole, eventually got put put in touch with crystals, started working with them, saw the huge benefit that, um, I was really like getting from them. And I remember one day being sat there thinking, I want to teach other people this, I want to tell the world about the power of these crystals that nobody really even talks about. And I remember being sat there trying to think of a business name, and I asked the universe and I said, come on universe, give me a really sassy business name, something that's gonna pop, something, you know, that it just is going to be meaningful to me. And just in the back of my head, my granddad's voice came through loud and clear, and he just said, 'Gan canny, son.' My granddad used to say 'gan canny' whenever I left his house. It means like, go easy, like be careful as you go, kind of thing. And I just thought, oh my God, canny crystals. And that's how it came to me, and that was the first time I'd ever experienced that. But even just a few weeks ago, like, my garden is my sanctuary. And you know when we had that glorious sunshine like a week or two ago, I just took myself outside and I just took me socks and shoes off, just grounded meself, was sat there, had a cup of tea with us, and I just sat there and it was so quiet. I've got a 15-month-old at the minute and he screams the house down constantly. You never get any peace. But I had me feet on the ground, he was at nursery, and I just sat there and I just said, what do I need? And it took about 3 or 4 minutes and something came through and I was like, why haven't I thought of that before? So it does work. It really, really does work.

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Wayfair. Every style, every home. I love that story. Thank you so much for sharing it. I really— I know Sarah's nodding as well. We could completely feel your energy there. It does work when we give ourselves and make the choice to just even create 5 minutes of space But when we're constantly piling stuff on, we don't have the space or the capacity. Do less to have and create more of what you want. This is why we are so against— like, we see this, the hustle, the burnout, and we see people talking about there's no need to hustle, there's no need to burn out, blah, blah, blah. But actually they're still trading one thing for another. Yeah. And there's still a lot of burnout energy happening out there. And again, we're seeing this with people then going, okay, I need to be doing more, I should be doing more. And this is the thing, when you have your own business as well, sometimes it's not always easy to switch off because it is your own business. And we get these ideas and nudges to do these things, but it is in those moments of stillness to really connect to, okay, is this truly aligned to me, or is this maybe just a little bit of ego or a little bit fear coming in telling me I need to do more. And only space allows us to deeply connect with the answers rather than keeping ourselves busy or numbing out or trying to do more and hitting up our note.

100%. And I think that, you know, when you get these little things through, I always think if it feels constricting or it feels like it's, you know, making you smaller and shrink yourself, then that's coming from your ego. But when it's like expansive and it feels joyous, then that's the true happiness and that's the thing that you should follow. And I always go by that. I always use that as my little rule. I always think, does this make me feel good or does it make me feel like, oh, you know, it's, oh, a bit icky. So yeah, can we talk about Shadow Alchemy as well while we're on this topic? Because I think if I remember rightly, I tried to come to your workshop at Happy Place Festival Festival the year before last. Yeah, but I couldn't get a ticket for it, so I was stood at the side. Now, I watched the whole thing, but I was just stood, you know, at the tent opening. Um, can you just explain what it is and how it differs from simply just doing shadow work?

Of course. So it's a blend of both. So the past is always present, like we know that to be true. So a really easy example of how we could demonstrate that is, um, if you can think of maybe like a coworker or a colleague or a friend or someone who really made you angry in the past couple of weeks.

I can think of loads.

Yeah, right. And you recall that memory. So if you think about that, you recall that memory and then you notice that the anger is there. Even though the event's passed, right, in linear time, we know that that's passed, but the emotions are still there. You still go on that rant about them, you're still frustrated. And that's only something that happened 2 weeks ago. But we're a culmination of all of our past events. And a lot of them we can't remember, you know, cognitively in consciousness, but they're still stored. They're stored in our gut, which is part of our intuition. It's part of the second brain. It's stored in the limbic system part of the brain as well. And the past is always replaying out in the present. So that's why we do shadow work. And shadow can sound like, oh, it's something scary. And like, I get it. I remember when I first started doing shadow work, I was petrified of what was underneath. Was I going to discover I was like a really bad person? Or like, you know, it's— you don't want to go there. But shadow just basically means that it's not in the light of your awareness. It's something that you can't see that's shaping your behavior in the present. So Shadow Alchemy is this beautiful process that takes you through the shadow really gently and safely using your intuition. So for example, we might look at a part that's maybe holding you back, maybe fear, maybe anger, maybe resentment. Maybe sadness, and we'll work like with that part. So we'll work with it to bring that into awareness, to understand it, and then we'll move into alchemy. Because once we release that energy from the past, we're able to create the future. We spend so much of our lives wrestling with things that happened in the past. We spend so much of our lives, myself included, by the way, like I'm not like a self-proclaimed healed guru, you know, we all have this. We spend so much trying to fight against the habitual patterns and responses. So a big one for me is like, I'm not good enough. So I'm a high achiever, right? But everything that I did never felt good enough for long enough because ultimately I felt unworthy. Like, I didn't feel good enough within myself. And it wasn't until I went into the shadow and then worked with that, brought it into the light of awareness, so then I could alchemize that pain, I could turn that into something else, I could accept it, make myself feel safe to move forward into a different future, a future where I could still have those goals and dreams and ambitions, but they weren't attached to my self-worth. And for each individual, it'll be, it'll be something unique. So in those sessions that we do at Happy Place, we run a lot of things with corporates and individuals as well. We will guide them through what we call an inner journey. So it's your own inner journey. So Jill does these beautifully. She's amazing. So closing down the eyes, moving you through that journey so that you can safely connect with your shadow, alchemize it, and then move into that compelling, authentic future. So that when we're in that state, and this is the ultimate goal of our work, is that the past makes sense and the future feels compelling and authentic. And in that moment, then we can really enjoy and engage in the present moment without being pulled in either direction.

Yeah. And I think that the beautiful thing is we, you know, are, as Sarah said, we can— these exercises, these techniques that we have in intuitive psychology, they can be done one-on-one and they can also be done in group settings. And you'll know this yourself, Martin, your listeners, if they've been to any sort of group work, when there is a powerful intention set and a powerful space held to hold that level of energy, it is incredible because you can literally collapse timelines. You can start to manifest and bring it in. And it's so funny because people will come in with an intention to manifest something. What they get, what they are shown by their intuition can be something entirely different. They're like, wow, when I actually was able to hold that part, that shadow part in love— and this isn't about overriding it and saying You know, this— if someone feels fear, I am strong, I am strong. You know, affirmations definitely have a place and we have something similar, but it's called affirmative anchors. But we only really bring that in when we've worked with shadow because we don't override these parts because these parts are in the shadow for a reason, because they have felt self-abandoned. They haven't been listened to their entire life. And it is about how do you go in and not become that part but hold space beautifully to feel perhaps what never was allowed to be felt and to move it through. And I think that's the thing, people are scared to go into it because they think, oh my goodness, if I go in there, like Sarah said, am I going to feel depressed for months? Am I going to go into a deep, dark place? Actually, when we know how to hold the energy of it and allow it to move through our body, it's around 90 seconds to 2 minutes. It's not that long. The reason we keep going back is because we're not holding it. We're not actually being with that part and allowing that part to move. We feel frightened of it, we come out of it, we try and override it, and then we just end up back in a loop. So once we actually know how to beautifully work with our shadow, it is the most powerful work that we can do because we alchemize it and we create that space to manifest in rapid time. Not only manifest, but manifest what you want, like what is really aligned to who you are.

So how do we reshape those deep-rooted problems then, and those patterns? Like, is it about more about rewiring the subconscious, or is it looking at limiting beliefs? What kind of work do you do with clients?

So we work directly with the unconscious. So I love this quote, it's from a psychologist, um, Carl Jung, and he says, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate. So in other words, this 95% that we're not aware of is ruling our lives in the background. It's literally steering us down roads that we don't want to go on. It's making decisions before we're even consciously aware of them. So for example, and I'm sure many of you listening can relate to this, and yourself and Jill too, we can feel 10 out of 10 motivated to make a change in our lives, right? Like normally happens in January. I'm going to hit the gym, you know, I'm going to put myself out there to find that relationship. I'm going to change my career. I'm definitely— this is the moment, this is my time. And we kind of, you know, do it for a few days, maybe we'll get to a week, and then all of a sudden we're back on the same autopilot and then we beat ourselves up. What's wrong with me? Why can't I do this? And actually nothing's wrong. It's just there's an unconscious belief there in the background that you can't see. Like you literally can't see it. It's not in your awareness. Now, it's likely that you have friends that you can see exactly what they're doing. You know, they come to you about their relationship problems, 'Oh, this has happened,' or their work problem, and you come away and you go, 'Oh my goodness, like, why can't they see what's going on? It's so obvious.' But when it's not in your consciousness, you're not aware of it, and it feels like fate because you're continually, you know, in the same, like, dramatic relationships, but, you know, in the same unfulfilling job, or with the manager that you don't like, or whatever it is for you, there are these habitual loops. And it's just because that the 95% that's ruling the show in the background isn't conscious. So until we make the, the unconscious conscious, it's very hard to create change. If we want to confidently create change, it's about eliciting that new awareness that creates a new reality that helps us make new choices, different decisions. We begin to open up and see reality through a different lens and a filter. So whenever I talked about feeling unworthy, for example, my whole lens and every experience that I had was through that, like, literally filter. It was like wearing sunglasses and viewing reality through this filter of I'm not good enough. So I would do maybe an amazing presentation at work and I would walk out and then I would think, then I would get in my head, that wasn't good enough. No one praised me. I didn't get that email from someone saying that was a brilliant job. And that was just my pattern of behavior. And it wasn't until I really went a little bit deeper and became more conscious of that that I was able to work with it. I was able to make myself feel worthy. And so really working with the unconscious is a way to confidently create change in your life. It's not surface-level change. It's not the positive affirmations and telling yourself, because look, the brain knows that, right? If you say, oh, I'm strong and I'm great, and underneath part of you is going, you're not really, though, are you? Not really. It's about doing it from a place of deep authenticity so that we don't have to have that conscious effort every day. It just flows really naturally because we're getting back to the truth of who we are. Yeah, like we all know at our core that we're worthy. Like, I knew that if someone said, but you are good enough, I knew it, but I didn't feel it. So this is about feeling it naturally and letting everything flow from that place.

Yeah, the feelings are real though, right? They're so— yeah, like, and Seda's one was the unworthiness. Mine was always, I'm not safe, I'm not safe in this relationship, I'm not safe with this person. And I would always be looking for my exit. When I went and I realized when I mean, I worked with an incredible intuitive coach as soon as I started my journey and she got me into really understanding where that came from. And, you know, most of your listeners and you'll have heard of inner child work is so potent and so powerful and it's something that we spend a lot of time with in our training as well. And but that moment for me to go in and understand, okay, what was the root cause, but actually more than the root cause underneath that, what was the unmet need? What did I not get in that moment? And how do I go in and give that to myself? Because I don't need to go to the person that created that. I need to go in and work with that myself. But that is it. So when you were asking about sort of rewiring, it does essentially do it when we start to heal, because essentially that's it. We're feeling, we're healing. We're moving and then we are rewiring because we start to make different choices. But even I would, you know, full transparency, the first few times more sometimes when you start to do it, that fear comes up and it's come up for me every time I'm about to level up and expand. I'm not safe. It's like the little, hey, remember me? And this is the thing. This is never about we're going to smash out your shadow. You're never going to feel that again. This is part of you. It is not separate from you. But how do you walk life with it?

Yeah.

How do you walk life with it and realize what's happening? Okay, I see you, I hear you, and create safety. And that's only me and only Sarah that can do that for ourselves. And for anyone listening, it's only you that can do it. But sometimes we need a little bit of guidance and support to go in to take us into those places in a safe space where— because let's be honest, this can, this can throw up a lot for our nervous system. And for us, it's really important when we are doing any of this work, and we always caveat it with work with someone who has experience in this level of work, because you don't know what might pop up for you from your past. It's not bad, it's not bad, but work with someone who has the capacity and experience to hold a really safe space for you, um, to move through that.

It's so funny that you've both mentioned these two kind of little triggers and limiting beliefs subconsciously that are coming up for you, because they are the two that I struggled with the most for years— that I'm not worthy and that I didn't feel safe. And when I actually like kind of tied the loop and like went back to, you know, the origin story of where it actually came from. I think growing up in a predominantly white Caucasian straight little village, I was— I felt like I was the only gay in the village, do you know what I mean? So I didn't particularly feel safe. And then all of my friends went off to university and college, and I just didn't know what I wanted to do. So I didn't feel worthy around all of my friends. I felt like a bit of a fraud almost. So I think worthiness and, you know, safety for me were huge. The thing that helped me the most was nervous system regulation. Obviously I've only just started recently looking into that, probably a month or two ago now, and it has absolutely changed my life. Like, just even doing little Havening techniques like this, and you know, just kind of thinking about where I was and where I am now and letting myself know that I am safe. Because I don't feel like we can manifest when we manifest from a place of or fear or scarcity or lack. You have to feel safe in your body and your energy has to feel safe for you to be able to align yourself into that flow state. So what do you think the role of, you know, the nervous system plays in our ability to access our intuition and maintain that flow state?

It's huge. It's huge. It is the, it is the evidence-based way to access your intuition. So we do this when we train our coaches with a technique called Deep Intuitive Trust. Which is really working with the nervous system and dialing down the mind and quieting the mind. And you can also use mindfulness or meditation, but the two are intrinsically linked because when we're able to drop into the body and slow down the conscious thinking mind, which is, you know, great and amazing, we access this deeper level of intelligence. We're able to feel and sense the sensations in our body. We're able to soothe ourselves, we're able to get that wisdom. And it's so incredibly powerful. And I love that you shared, um, you know, that manifesting from that place— like, when we're in fear, when we're in lack, we're armored up. And when we armor up, we not only block out or try to control, like, the negative things hidden in us, but we also block out our ability to receive that happiness. So even if you manifest that thing. You know, we've all shared our own personal stories and examples of things that we've maybe got or attained, but you don't feel safe enough to receive it. You don't feel worthy enough to receive it. And when you really let the armor down and you feel really accepting of yourself, of all parts, when you're able to really tune into your nervous system and how it feels, when you're able to access your intuition, the armor comes down and you're able to receive everything. You know, life is this continual ebb and flow. And actually, when we're in that flow, we're in harmony with the past, the present, and the future. And we just, we meet each moment as it is, and we meet ourselves as it is. And we take that weight and that heavy expectation of how life should be, because that's the wrestle, or how we should be. And we stop that wrestle with ourselves.

Yeah, it's all about being authentic as well, because I think once you're authentic, you're in that flow state anyway, isn't it? But you can only be authentic once you let that armor drop.

Absolutely present as well. Being present, that is just the— that's the thing, isn't it? Because when we can really cultivate a sense of presence, we're not worrying about the past or thinking about the future. We are just in awe of where we are in that moment. I truly believe that without nervous system regulation work, and working with your unconscious mind, you cannot really create those moments of being really, really present. And I really— we want this for everyone because that is the moment that everything shifts because there is only now, there is only this moment right now. Like even just taking a moment right now to go, oh my goodness, like we are all in different places. We are connecting and having the most beautiful conversation. Which is going to go out to other people who are also going to listen to that. Like, how lucky and how grateful are we that we get to actually do this and use our voices for good? And I feel like this is a moment to just anchor in presence because we'll never have this moment again. Yeah, you know, I practice a lot, like, because I feel like once we really get into being in the present moment, we don't worry about having to force anything. Like you said, like chasing something, forcing something, because we are— we're in that energetic frequency that is so potent and powerful of presence and authenticity. I mean, authenticity measures higher than love. Love used to be the highest measured vibration. It's now authenticity. But how can we get into that without really accepting all parts of ourselves? There are no bad parts, but thinking makes it so. So how do we get out of the thinking mind and drop into the body and be? Accepting of all of ourselves.

I love that. I also— can I ask you a question? Because I noticed on your website as well that you say that life coaching is dead. I want to ask what you mean by that and what do you believe is the future of transformational work.

So we do believe that life coaching is dead in its current form. So consciousness has changed, right? Even the fact that now we're talking about— in fact, I'm holding a crystal while I do this. So like, even the fact that like, it's fine, we're talking about crystals. You know, I've got angel cards beside me. The sage is downstairs. You know, we're having these open conversations about things like shadow. Consciousness has evolved, but coaching hasn't. It's still really based out of like a 1980s management book that tells you to set a SMART goal or take some actions. And we need more. Like, as consciousness evolves, we need something that goes deeper. And this is what intuitive psychology aims to do. Coaching often looks at just present and future, but we can't ignore the past, you know, for all the reasons that we've discussed. The past shapes who we are as a person. And actually, when we got our coaching accredited, we went to the global professional body, the Association for Coaching, and we knew it was a bold move, but it was very important for both of us. Like, we hold our profession in really high regard that we wanted it to be accredited. We didn't want to just put it out there because Sarah and Jill said it was good. We wanted that gold seal of approval from experts., and we went to them and we said, we believe that we should work with the past, staying in the role as a coach, but acknowledging that actually, you know, we can't really move forward into the future if the past is still dragging us back. We still have those limiting beliefs, we still have that perception of reality. And they loved it. They absolutely loved it. In fact, they, they helped us and really guided us through the whole application process, which was a massive 82 pages. It was honestly— got PTSD even thinking about it. Life coaching is dead in its current form because, look, we all know it to be true. You can write an action plan, you can set a goal, you can do it for a couple of weeks, but then you're back to where you are. And people deserve better. Like, we deserve more. And when it comes to change, when someone has the courage to make that change and, you know, make that decision of I deserve more in my life, more happiness, more ease, more flow, more abundance, more energy, more love, then we owe it to people to give them the tools that are going to facilitate that change, that are innovative, that are up to date, and that don't rely on other people telling them what to do or following their recipe for success, but instead bring them back to the core of what is right for you as this beautiful, unique individual on this planet.

And for someone listening who, you know, might feel disconnected from themselves, or maybe they're a bit uncertain about their path, what would you say is the first step towards alignment for them? Mm.

Oh my goodness. It's a— that's a big question. There's so many things jumping around. I, I feel for anyone feeling lost. I want you to first of all trust that, like, don't override it. If it's coming up, it's coming up for a reason. Create space. Don't do more. Don't go and follow someone else on social media. Don't try and copy what they're doing. I'm not saying what these guys aren't doing is brilliant. It's working maybe for them, but that's deeply aligned to them and their mission. Don't outsource. Realize that you have all the resources. And I advise you to just create a little bit of space, maybe even if it's in nature. Get your feet on the ground, like socks off, feet on the ground. Really deeply breathe into that. If it's listening to music, put on some music. It might be that you like to dance, right? A lot comes up when we to intuitively move our body. Find what feels good, not because you're looking to get something out of the end of it, but just set the intention to be with your body, to intuitively trust. Like, ask yourself, where do I need to go? That question that I said to you earlier, Mart Tweedy, placing the hand on the heart— what do I need? That's the first question. I say this to people and clients and our students all the time, like, drop in. When we're in a head drop in, what do I need? Your heart will tell you what you need in that moment. It'll be peace, it'll be space, it'll be trust. Okay, so how do I get that? How do I start to get that? Like, we have this beautiful question method and we'll share it with your listeners. It's 22 questions. So great for them just to take those questions, not to just jump into it. Like, really create a space where you're not going to be disturbed. You can go outside or in your house with a little bit of music on, take some deep breaths and ask yourself the questions and allow the answers to come. It's super simple, but it will really get you in touch with what is important to you.

Yeah. Can I just add briefly, because I love that answer and I love what you said, Jill, where you said, you know, tune into what feels good for you. What I would add on top of that is follow the breadcrumbs of authenticity. So really, when you're doing something throughout your day, when you feel lost, maybe you don't feel lost from the things that you enjoy, feel lost from your sense of purpose. There will be breadcrumbs throughout your day, little moments where you are feeling good. So pay attention to those. Like, who are the people that really bring you energy rather than drain it? What are the activities that you really love to do? Where do you feel most able to be your full self? Like, what conversations light you up, what podcasts you get a lot from, and follow those little breadcrumbs of authenticity. There is so much information scattered about our day that often we're just not bringing into our awareness. So if you can follow those breadcrumbs bit by bit, it will bring you back to yourself.

And what's your biggest hope or vision for the future of personal development in the coaching industry?

My biggest hope is that coaches feel deeply proud of their profession. I think we've entered an era where coaching became a bit of the Wild West. There was a lot of unregulated coaches. Coaches got a bit of a bad reputation. And our goal is to restore pride into the coaching industry. And our hope is that we see more people talking like this, talking about not being a sage on the stage or a guide on the side, but really be in that human and conscious connection. We have this mission and this belief that better humans create better worlds, and we want to be part of that positive change.

For all of what Sarah said, and for me, the other thing is when I really drop into it, it's this energy of a collective really trusting themselves. We are fed so much information, some of it useful, most of it not, if I'm honest. I just want really for people to start to trust themselves. I think when we do it one person at a time, and obviously we have amazing coaches out there that are working with people all over the world with this, it really allows that person, that individual, to heal, to feel what needs to be felt, to heal and to self-trust. And that will change humanity because the conversations that they will then have with people, how they might parent their children, how they might change the dynamics of the relationship, and how those children perhaps will then grow up differently, being able to communicate their needs in a really safe space because parent 1 or parent 2 isn't projecting their stuff from their childhood on it. Yeah, you know, we We, we do it with, with love and intention and we know this work is powerful. We're seeing evidence of all the time, but we truly believe because this came to us in a download. You know, you mentioned about your granddad. My mom passed away. I took 4 months out of work and, and it came through to me as that this was what we were, we were to create. And we both said this, that it's not always been easy. We haven't taken the easy route with this. We haven't just certified ourselves. Everything we've done is, is, is highly accredited. We're only one of 11 in the world that can accredit to the level that we do. But we do it because we know that it isn't just for Sarah and I. Yes, we are. It was channeled through us. It came to us. But it's a legacy. It will be here when we are not here and it will grow and it will expand and evolve. It doesn't belong to us. We're just the people that are here to, to, to bring it into the world. But where it goes from there is really down to, to people trusting themselves and being the embodiment of intuition.

So yeah, you're pioneering it basically. I absolutely love that. And I know that you've got a closing date for your training on becoming an accredited Master Intuitive Psychology Coach. I believe that the closing date is next Friday. Is that right?

Yeah, next Friday is our closing date. So if you want to train to become a Master Intuitive Psychology Coach, be accredited to the highest level in the entire industry, and learn these techniques that we've referenced throughout, then now is the time to apply. And the link will be shared. You can click on it, find out more, and complete an application form, and then jump on a call with myself and Jill to see if you're a really good fit for the program. We only run this program twice a year, and we limit the number to a max maximum of 25, because it's really important that we have like a part, have a very personalized learning experience for our coaches, because the work that they do is very, very deep. The accreditation is really high. So me and Jill run this training directly ourselves.

Brilliant. So I'll pop the two links under the show notes for this episode as well. So the first will be the Question Method, which is the free resource for anyone to help them deeply connect with their intuition.. And then the second will be the accredited Master Intuitive Psychology Coach training. How can everyone else find you both online?

Instagram probably is where we hang out. We're also on LinkedIn as well. So Instagram, we.our.ipa. Come and have a chat with us. We hang out in there. And we're also on LinkedIn, the Intuitive Psychology Association. If you wanted Jill Ritchie or Sarah Gregg, we are also on there as well. So you'll be able to find us.

Oh, well, thank you so much for this conversation. I've absolutely loved every second, and honestly, I really appreciate you both for coming on the pod and sharing so openly as well. And for everyone else listening, I'll pop all of Sarah and Jill's links in the show notes for today's episode, so please, please go and support them, go and check them out. And if you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating or a review for this episode as well. If you think you know someone who would really benefit from the content that we've talked about, please share it in your WhatsApp groups, tag me in your stories, and I will see you all next Friday for another episode. Speak soon, guys.

Bye!

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