246: You're living someone else's story, ft. Tamu Thomas

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Hello everyone, welcome back to Cani Crystals, the podcast. Now today's guest gave one of the most talked about sessions at Manifest this year., and it wasn't really a manifestation technique as such. It wasn't about vision boards, it wasn't really about mindset, but instead it was a powerful reminder to us all that so much of who we are and who we actually believe ourselves to be might not have even started with us at all. She spoke about inherited beliefs, generational healing, burnout, ambition, receiving support, and what it really means to become our ancestors' wildest dreams. So joining me today is author, coach, and founder of Live 360, the wonderful Tamu Thomas. Hello, Tamu, how are you?

I'm very well, thank you. Even better for being here with you, Mart Tweedy.

Oh, thank you so much for joining us. So at Manifest, you spoke about becoming our ancestors' wildest dreams, and I find that such a powerful phrase. So where did this idea first come from? Why has it become such an important part of your work?

I don't know when I first became conscious of it, but it's something that Black Americans say a lot. So there's a lot of branded merchandise, there's lots of stuff around being and becoming your ancestor's wildest dreams. And I'm somebody who is fascinated by our biology and how it works. And so I had that going on. My parents are West African. People of African origin, I would just say, talk about ancestors and ancestral connection. I grew up with ancestor veneration or whatever it's called, where on the anniversary of somebody's death, my mom would boil black-eyed beans, the drink they really enjoyed, and have like a little, we would call it an altar over here, a little altar paying respect and feeding them. I grew up in a culture where when we're having a celebration and you're opening particularly a bottle of spirits, you would pour, libations. And my family would say things like, when we were eating at Christmas, for example, if somebody drops some food on the floor, people say, "Oh, it's the ancestors. We haven't fed them." So somebody would put something out for them. So I've always been conscious about our relationship with our ancestors, the fact that they are around us in a different form. And then in 2020, no, when I first experienced burnout, I discovered positive psychology because traditional psychology just wasn't cutting it. Positive psychology introduced me to my felt sense, my sensations, because when we do things like gratitude, visualizing, and using these techniques, this technology that's available through positive psychology, I started noticing how I felt. And it reminded me of when I was working in social work, working with children and families who found it very difficult to articulate how they felt. I would things like, well, how does your heart feel at the moment? What's going on with your tummy? Especially with little children, we would talk about their tummies feeling wobbly, and that's how I was able to understand they were feeling anxious. So then this led me to the world of somatics, neuroscience, our nervous system, and I was fascinated by it. Between positive psychology and somatics neuroscience, I was able to give language context, meaning to things I've been experiencing forever without the shame or labeling or blame of there's something wrong with me that I need to fix or improve, or me being a work in process— I start— progress even. I started to understand that our biology and our psychology are constantly in communication with each other. So I went, of course, because I'm a very curious person, I decided to do a somatic coaching certification. I didn't want to do traditional coaching because I felt it left out our body and kind of treated us as if our body is a vehicle for our brain. And then within that, I learned about epigenetics, and I learned about the way our genes inform who and how we are and how our genes are impacted by the people we come from. So epigenetics is the study of how your environment shapes your emotional landscape and how over time that informs how your DNA expresses itself. So for example, there was a study done of people impacted, people who have ancestors that were in the Holocaust, for example, and they were able to identify that there were certain behaviors and reactions that were amplified, not because of the person's own experience, but because of the way epigenetics had passed down information through the genes. So they had particular reactions to hunger, to discrimination, for example. And epigenetics found that, um, the, uh, legacy we come from, our genetic markers, we can be impacted from between 7 and 14 generations ago. So I thought, well, the people I know, even the people who come from wealth, women were not having a good time. People who are from marginalized identities were not having a good time. I know that Bridgerton is a drama. But even if you look at that for clues, you will see that women were not having a great time. Even if they came from a background of wealth, they were dependent on men to be able to survive. So, it gives us a lot of data. And for me, as somebody who defaults to, "I've done something wrong. It's a limiting belief," or, "There's something about what I'm doing that is wrong," it gave me a sense of relief that I don't need to pathologize myself. I don't need to make it a thing. And it's not about bypassing. I can recognize that some of my reactions to things are inherited, and I can start to look at what's going on here and now in the present and make a choice about how I respond. So it's not all of that reactivity I've inherited. And what I learned through neuroscience, somatic science, polyvagal theory, and all of that great stuff is that when we take actions that are in alignment with our current circumstance, we automatically heal the things that are impacting our DNA, and they have less of an impact on who we are, how we are, and how we make progress. It supports post-traumatic growth.

I find this absolutely fascinating. And I think one of the things that you spoke about that really resonated with me during your talk was the part about hyper-independence.

Mm-hmm.

Like, why do you think so many of us have become brilliant at giving, but incredibly uncomfortable at receiving support?

So our society creates a myth that when you are an adult and you are independent, you don't need anybody. Mm. So we even hear it when we hear people talk about a self-made millionaire. A millionaire's— like, none of us are self-made. We are all products of our society. Whilst that millionaire might have been the visionary, might have been the person that had the idea, we all have support in some way, shape, or form. I know that you, like me, are a solopreneur, but I don't do absolutely everything myself. I have people that help me with particular tasks. Maybe it's not that they're helping me with tasks, I've got a group of business friends that I go to for groupthink, or I just need to get this off my chest, can you provide me with some support? But the story we tell about what it is to be an adult tells us you shouldn't need that. Like, you shouldn't have any needs because that makes you needy. And if you're not needy, then— I mean, if you're needy, then you're not independent. So we have confused being independent with kind of braving it out. We have this hero's journey where you do things on your own. But, um, an An example that is used quite often is Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker actually needed a lot of help. He had Yoda and all of these other people, but we have this story that we're supposed to do it on our own. And then we've also got this story that if we ask for help, we're inconveniencing people and we don't want to be a burden. We don't want people to feel like we owe them one so they can call in a favour at another time because sometimes it can feel very transactional. And also, Mart asking for help, recognising that you're a human being can feel really, really vulnerable, especially for those of us that have got a history that includes being let down by significant people for whatever reason. So, there's a cocktail of things that we have going on that just makes asking for help make us feel like we're weak.

I mean, you're speaking to my soul there because you've just described exactly how I've been in the last 5 years in business. And I think it was because when I worked in the NHS, for example, I was just kind of left to my own devices, you know. We had like overarching strategies and targets that we had to hit, but on a day-to-day basis, I was my own boss. So I was just left to my own devices. So asking for help was basically me passing off my shit onto someone else's plate. And that's how it always felt. And nobody would do that. Whereas in business, for the last 5 years, that's literally all I've done. And it's not until this year one of my business friends came to me and said, look, we've got this office space, we've got admin support. If you want to move all of your stock and everything Honeycrystals related over to our office, we can help and support you with your business. We can grow it. We believe in you. And I was like, what's in it for you? It was almost like you were saying transactional. And I hummed and hawed with it for ages. It's one of the best things that I've ever done. Julie, one of the owners, she helped me so much with Manifest This Year. That if she hadn't stepped in when I burnt out in March, it probably wouldn't have gone ahead this year, and I would have probably canceled. And canceling anything is the last thing that I want to do because I hate letting people down. So it's like, I almost feel like we're always able to manifest amazing things, but then it's almost like I can't hold on to them. Do you know what I mean by that? So how do we expand that capacity to be able to hold on to the, the help and the support that we cover?

Well, that's one of the reasons why I started to tap into my ancestors. Because I had real difficulty reaching out to other human beings. So people like you and I, and I do think there is something about being in what are considered to be helping professions, we are the person or the people people go to. So when you are in that role, Mart, when I was in the depths of burnout and I was speaking to people in my circle, they didn't know what to do with it. And it's not because they're bad people or it was so out of character. That wasn't the kind of unspoken contract we had about how we relate to each other. When I think about it on a nervous system perspective, it must have been a bit of a shock to their nervous system that this person who was absorbing so much for so many people was saying, I can't, like, I feel like I'm about to crumble. So there are so many different things at play. And when I had that experience, and I've had childhood experiences of being let down, immediately I internalized everything. I held on, right? That's my sign. You've got to continue to brave it out. You can't do it. You can't rely on people. And my granddad came to me. So my granddad died in 2015, and he's the only grandparent I grew up with that I knew. My dad's parents died before I was born. My mum's mum died just before I turned 2. So my granddad is the grandparent I knew. And granddad was just so supportive. Granddad, granddad was giving my daughter lunch money when she was a newborn, and he was giving me lunch money in my 30s. He was, he was, and it wasn't just about the money. I could talk to him about so many things. He— if I said to Grandad I wanted to do this thing, he would be saying, "Oh, how can I support you?" He was one of these people that just believed in human potential. He left Sierra Leone at whatever age to come to England to start a new life, faced all kinds of discrimination, managed to make it work, land on his feet, bring his children, wife, all of that kind. So, he really believed in human potential. And so, sometimes I would just feel his presence. If I was in struggle, if something was going really well. My granddad is of that generation that would iron underwear and bedding and stuff. And so I'm messy. Whether it's that I've got ADHD or not, I don't know. But sometimes, especially when I was writing my book, I just helped— like, he would always say, like, "No, dear, tidy up." So he helped me organize my working station so I didn't have chapters and writings all over the place, which is what I would have done. I was so surprised that I handed my manuscript in on time, and I do feel like Grandad's guidance was able to support me with that. And then in having like that ancestral support and even making up, you know, we don't know past our great-grandparents. We don't even know our great-grandparents. So I would make up the support I wanted and receive that support. And that support encouraged me to seek help because it was always a great, a good, grandparents saying, "We don't want you to suffer. What is gonna help you not suffer?" So that, like, there's a 15-year gap between me and my sister, but my sister is an old soul. Like, she was born 40 years old. And it would even be speaking to her and letting her know how I felt challenged at that time and just letting her hear me. Working with the ancestors helped me build trust that support is available for me. And then I wasn't testing, I was kind of testing, I shared that with friends and I was humbled. And I don't like the word humble, humility, or no, humility is not so bad, but I was humble because like what you were talking about with Julie, there were people that were falling over themselves to be able to support me. Because why? Human beings, we are hardwired for connection. We like to support other people. In my book, I write, I write about the archaeologist Margaret Mead, who talks about one of the earliest signs archaeologists found of human civilization was a healed fractured bone, which, and where the, I think it was the femur or something, it was a very significant bone in the leg. And it shows that at a time where human beings had to be on the move because they were prey for so many, people stopped and cared for that person. They weren't gonna benefit, but they cared about that person. So they stopped and helped that person heal. So that person could continue on their journey. So it really helped me understand that even if somebody lets me down, it doesn't mean I'm not worthy of support. And when we really strip it back, our fear is that people are gonna find out we're not, not everybody, but for many of us, our fear is people are gonna find out I'm not worthy of that support.

I was gonna say, this is the reason that I do not watch the news, because when you watch the news, it's all like, oh, we're all pitted against each other, or someone's fighting, there's wars going on. And I just don't give any time or energy to it because in actual fact, I have so much evidence in my day-to-day life that people are willing to connect with you and people are willing to help you out when you need it the most. When I hit burnout this year, back in March, Obviously my little boy had just gone 2, so we're right amongst the terrible twos. I was trying to run Manifest, run my academy. I'd ran 6 courses back to back from November up into March, and I just wasn't getting any time. I was packing orders with the crystals. I was just burning the candle at both ends, and I knew something had to change. And as soon as I admitted that to myself and I put that out there to my friend circle, everyone straight away What do you need help with? What do you need support with? And I think we've just been so conditioned over the years with the media and the news and, you know, newspapers and stuff that we just assume that we're all pitted against each other when in actual fact we're not. Exactly.

It really exacerbates that. And social media algorithms love it.

Yeah.

Quite often I will see things bubble up on social media about women being pitted against each other and women talking about, oh, it's always women. Mart, if it's happened, I'm oblivious to it. I do not know. I've had so many opportunities because somebody has recommended me. And I've had opportunities where people have said, "Actually, I know somebody who would be better for this than me. Let me introduce you to Tamu." And that has been people of all genders, all persuasions. And I do believe that it serves capitalism for us to feel like we are crabs in a barrel.

Mm-hmm.

If we recognize that actually there is enough for everybody, as long as we are operating within the boundaries of our planet, we have to face facts. Our planet does have boundaries. But if we focus on what's important for us as the human beings we are, what our genuine innate desires are, what do we want and why do we want it, we will find that some of the external markers of success that are touted around all over the place, they're not even our markers of success. Yeah. So when we can get, um, clear about what's important for us to feel like we're living a life that feels abundant to us, when we are meeting those needs as human beings, When our needs are met, we have got so much more space and capacity to extend our generosity, our kindness to others from a place that feels regenerative. There's a thing called the helper's high. When we support other people, we experience a high that is bigger than when we help ourselves. But if our needs are unmet, that's very difficult. And when we look at a lot of the troubles that are taking place around the world, underneath that, that there are people whose needs aren't met. And I know that might sound really simple and trivial when we consider the wars that are taking place in the world, rights that are being stripped back and taken away, the impact things are having on the, on the planet. But when you look at all of these things, there are people who feel like, I need and want all of this stuff, and in order for me to have all of this stuff, they can't have any because they're going to be taking away from me, rather than recognizing The Earth is one big massive ecosystem and we are a product of that ecosystem. And as long as we continue to use, because we do use, as long as we continue to use but also feed back into, there will be plenty for all of us.

I love that.

I went on a bit of a tangent there.

No, no, I love it. And it's very all relevant as well. I know in your talk from Manifest as well, you shared quite an incredibly emotional story. Was it visiting Cape Coast Castle? Was it in Ghana?

Yes, Cape Coast Castle in Ghana.

Yeah. What was it that happened there? Why did it change the way that you saw your life?

I went to Cape Coast Castle. So Cape Coast Castle, it's not castle like Buckingham Palace. It is a fort that was created to hold enslaved— well, Africans that were kidnapped, and they were held there whilst they were waiting for ships to come in to take these people as slaves into the quote-unquote New World. The condition— the, the castle is beautiful. It's been maintained beautifully. The upstairs is beautiful. That is where the people who were capturing slaves, etc., Black people that became enslaved, that's where they lived. But the enslaved people were kept in dungeons underneath the main building. So we went, my mum, my daughter, and I went to Cape Coast Castle because we were going to learn about our collective history. It's like a rite of passage when you go to Ghana, and I think it's important for everybody to do that when they visit. And as soon as— I was fine. I had just been at a beach resort, two small beaches down. I had been evangelizing everybody about kelewele, which is a Ghanaian dish where they season plantain with all of these spices. I'd eaten that, my jollof rice, my African Fanta. I was feeling satiated and satisfied. I was going to learn. As we approached, I started to feel ill, and I couldn't understand why. And then the waves of sickness started to become more furious. And I thought, I'm going to suppress that because I'm here to learn. Follow the tour guide. He showed us the chapel. So there was a chapel, and right underneath the chapel was the male dungeon. The irony of it all. They would be there worshiping, and then underneath there, there were enslaved people. And as I started to listen, I felt like my my digestive system was about to explode. So I went off to the bathroom not knowing what was going to happen. Nothing happened. I was just doing lots of heavy breathing. And then I decided I was going to sit in the courtyard in the shade and miss out on the, um, tour because I just couldn't do it. And I had this very visceral feeling that my collective ancestors were saying, you're not coming here to have your brain switched on and your body turned off so that you can ingest all of this information for it to become content and part of whatever else. You're not doing that today. We want you to feel. And I had this overwhelming sense that they were saying to me, they suffered, they endured, they had to engage in backbreaking work because they had no choice. Their lives depended on it. But they wanted me to stand on their shoulders. I was getting so many messages about overwork. I talk about toxic productivity because it's my default. If things are going well, toxic productivity. If things are going badly, toxic productivity. And I was getting a very strong message that that's not what's supposed to be happening and that life would effectively open up for me if I stopped doing backbreaking arduous work and always finding the hard way. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take this on. And then I returned to the UK. And within a couple of days, I had a speak— I was facilitating a workshop at MindBodySpirit Festival. And this lovely, lovely person came to my workshop and said, oh, I'm over at the Hay House stand. I've organized cover so that I could come to your workshop. I like your work. I like what you do. And I really wanted to be here. Turned out she was a commissioning editor at Hay House, and she started speaking to me at the end about a book. We exchanged email details, and then I met with her to talk about book ideas. And I didn't think much of it because I didn't— I knew I wanted to write a book about toxic productivity, and I also wanted the book to— I've read so many personal development books. I'm a personal development book junkie. And what I would find is that before, books weren't really intersectional, so they didn't really talk about people with marginalized identities. Then they started to, and it would be a whole chapter, then at the end it would say, "And if you're a Black person, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And I thought, I don't wanna feel like I've been tacked on to the end. So I want to speak about my experience as a Black person, also other people's experiences. I wanted that to be front and center. I didn't want to feel like people who look like me were an afterthought. Thought in a book by a person that looks like them. And I was talking about things like the way patriarchy, white supremacy, capitalism come together and create environments where people are over-functioning all the time. And I thought, well, I get my spiritual books from Hay House, so I don't see why they would be interested in a book like this. I was just about to say, cut a long story short, but I like to make short story long, so I'm not even going to bother with that. But it ended up with 5 book publishers wanting to publish my book, one of whom was Hay House. And Hay House was so keen that they made a beautiful offer that blew everybody out of the water, not just financially, but the support they were putting in place for me as an author. I just felt like they cared about me and my writing process as well as creating a book that would be able to make the money. And I truly believe that was an outcome of me saying, "All right, ancestors, I'm going to listen." Now, I don't listen all the time. I get caught up in my default of toxic productivity, but now I have something to turn towards when I can feel I'm getting that adrenaline rush of doing too many things simultaneously. And since then, I have been able to be, do, and have things that are beyond what my mind believes is possible because there's still a lot of scarcity programming going on in there. But when I tap into that ancestral support, it bypasses all of that kind of, "Oh no, you can't do that. It's too much. You don't have the support. You're not qualified." It bypasses all of that. And I just have this really grounding sense that's what I'm supposed to do. And then I just make the decision and know I'm being supported and, and, and do it.

Something that you said through that story as well is you said, um, we have endured so you don't have to. What did that sentence unlock for you internally?

So in Manifest, I talked about epigenetics, which is the science of how our DNA is impacted by our environments, and we inherit from our ancestors, which I talked about earlier on. What it helped me to realize is that when you are not conscious, you just go along with the program, whether that is the program of society, whether that's the program from your family of origin, whether that's the program within your DNA. Like I always say, our nervous system is a reflection of the system we exist within. Our body is a system. And when we are not conscious about it, we just default. So if I have got, which I do have, epigenetics that say, "You've got to work really hard in order to stay alive. If you haven't worked really hard, you haven't proved yourself. You've got to prove yourself. People won't believe that somebody like you is capable of this." If I don't check myself, I just go along with that story of endurance. That story of endurance is over. I don't need to repeat that story of endurance. Now, I could make a bigger song and dance about it. I could say I need to get to the root cause of it. I understand, and I can dismantle, and I can this and that and the other. Or I can recognize that if I'm no longer playing the endurance game and I am choosing to believe that it is possible for me to grow, to do, and all of this, not only will I experience trust that I am the type of person that does what they say they're going to do, I am also passing on the healing through my genes.

Yeah.

And it's not even just through the genes. So at Manifest, I talked about when I told my dad I had got the book deal. I will never ever get over the relief my dad expressed at me being able to fulfill something he wasn't able to do. My dad is very creative. He's very artistic. He's a singer-songwriter, poet. He wasn't able to realize that. So when we drop the story, this is not bypassing. We honor the story. We honor where it's come from. And we say, I'm actually gonna use— like, one of the things I see all the time is shit is fertilizer. I'm gonna use that shit as fertilizer. I'm not gonna roll around in it so I end up stinking. My growth supports supports them. Yeah. As a parent, you're a dad, when you see your child meet milestones, you have such a sense of pride and joy that they are growing and flourishing the way they are, you know, the way they can. It gives you a sense of relief. I am— we don't like— we can read all of the books, but really we don't know what we're doing as parents. We're kind of making it up as we go along. So when you see the fruits of your labor starting to bud, that is one of the biggest gifts. And I know that that is what— and, you know, my dad was not a hands-on dad, okay? He was a very stereotypical West African father. But knowing that this life he came to the UK to have a better version of, he could see that through me, and that was healing for both of us. It even repaired some of the wounds in our relationship.

Love that. And I think some of— so many of the fears or the limitations, the beliefs that we struggle with today, they genuinely didn't begin with us. And something that I loved was when you said that you were more interested in healing cycles than breaking cycles. So what's the difference between the two? What's the difference of healing something and actually breaking it?

If you look at, um, if you look at, if you just think about the concept of breaking or healing, so in my mind I can see like something being smashed, something being broken. I've got like a Hulk image smashing, breaking. That takes a lot of energy. Whereas when I think about healing, I think about aloe vera. There was a point in time when everybody in my world was selling, um, what's it, Hello Living— Forever Living aloe vera products. Yeah, the drinks. And yeah, everybody was at it. And I remember my friend explaining that aloe vera is like an adaptogen. If it's too dry, it brings moisture. If it's too wet, it brings— and I just thought, well, I would rather be rubbing something, applying something soothing and smoothing to it. And also, when I think about the work I used to do in supporting people in not regulating but soothing and healing their nervous systems and repairing their relationship with themselves, it's not— it doesn't need to be broken. When we think about, um, what we inherit, we often talk about post-traumatic stress disorder, forgetting that we also have post-traumatic growth. We also inherit resilience. We also have a lot of fortitude. There was somebody I was talking to about my experience of Cape Coast Castle, and straight away she thought about the fact that her bloodline, as far as she's aware, is all English, but some of the people in her bloodline were very poor and were in workhouses. And there were people that had to be really smart and witty to be able to get out of workhouses. And she thinks about herself as a bit of a charming East End chancer, but the chances that she has taken has enabled her to have social mobility and create a better life for her and her children. So we've got to remember that we inherit great stuff as well. So if we're smashing it all, we're losing all of that. Again, shit is fertilizer. Let's take that stuff, let it compost, trust and support us.

And one of the big practical exercises that you shared was about having monthly board meetings with your good ancestors. So where did that idea come from and what actually happens during one of those meetings?

Do you know what? I'm trying to think. I think my back was up against the wall. I was having so many boom and bust cycles in my business. I'd launch something, yay, great, lots of money, lots of money for that thing. Then there was a gap. So even though that was a significant amount of money, there's such a big hole for it to cover, it's not covering. So I was like, why am I always like this? I don't understand it. And again, it was that thing of divine intervention. So it's like, all right then, Granddad, And I thought, well, who else would I want to be there? And as I said, I didn't know my other grandparents, but I know that they would want the best for me. The way people talk about my maternal grandmother, oh my goodness, she just seems like she was such like just love, just a big huge ball of love. And then when my dad talks about his mum, he talks about, um, the fact that although his mother was a very Islamic woman, she was also very spiritual. Um, so I'm like, yeah, you come on board as well. And so I was really struggling, couldn't see the wood for the trees. Again, doing my toxic productivity, hyper-independent stuff. Could not ask for help for Toffe Mart Tweedy, even though I was paying big money for a coaching program. I was like, I should know this by now. Why am I still here being really hard on myself? And the first thing I heard was, you've got to stop being so hard on yourself. And I was like, 'You've got to ask for help.' And then I was like, 'Well, who? Please tell me who, because at the moment I'm in struggle.' And then I just felt so supported by that. I felt like I was dreaming bigger. I was setting myself bigger goals that were true to me. And so one of the biggest things was, 'You've got to let go.' So at that time, I was doing life coaching. They were like, 'You've got to let go. You've done that,' because it was similar to social work. "but that's not what you are supposed to be doing." And that's when I just thought, you know what, sod it, I love being on stage with a microphone. That's what you're supposed to be doing. So that was really helpful. And then because I love the science of stuff, whether it's how I am or because I come from a social work background, which is very much having an evidence base, I was looking into it and it's a bit like creative visualization where it's about neuroplasticity, where you are changing the chemistry of your brain. And then there was also in positive psychology, they call it imagined conversations. And again, your brain cannot tell the difference between what you're imagining and what is real. So those imagined conversations provided me with the support I needed to say, do you know what, that ego is really getting in your way. It's not healthy anymore. This isn't about self-esteem, this is about pride. This is not even being brave anymore, this is bravado. And you are, as the young kids would say, fumbling the bag simply because because you do not want to ask for help. Like sometimes these ancestors will tell you straight. They're not just, "Oh, kumbaya, my darling." And so that's where it came from. And then I thought, actually, there are a few more people I would want to have on my board. So I've got people like Grace Jones. I've recently introduced Bad Bunny onto my board. And I think, what would this person say to me in— my daughter is on my board because she probably knows me just as well as my mum, but in a different way. And because I'm her mum and because she's a teenager, she's like, "Oh, why are you doing that?" And sometimes that's what I, that's what I need. So these are people I can turn to for support. So when I am going to my mentors, my coaches, etc., a lot of that reactivity and emotional stuff I've been able to take care of. So I can say, "This is where I need to get to. I can't even see what the problem is. Can you help me?" And they're like, "Oh my goodness, yeah, sure. That's what you pay me for. And I like you. I want to.

Of course I'm going to help I love that you had Grace Jones on there, and I think you mentioned Beyoncé as well.

So I was like, yes, Beyoncé, of course Beyoncé's on there. Yeah.

So for someone sitting there at home listening to this thinking, I don't hear my ancestors, I don't know how I even begin, how would you encourage them to start building that connection one-on-one?

Make it up. Okay. Sometimes people have difficulties with fake it to make it. Now, some of us don't have nice grandparents We have to be all the way real. Some people are no contact for whatever reason. So my invitation is to— if you were to dream up your dream grandparent, who would that be? It could be Mary Poppins. It could be— it could absolutely be. It could be the Fairy Godmother from Cinderella. It doesn't have to— it needs to be somebody that has the qualities you desire, the qualities you think will be supportive. And we have an imagination. We have an imagination for a reason. Now, if you are very conscious about it and you keep distracting yourself because it feels silly or something of that nature, one of the things I actively recommend people doing is going out for a walk.

Mm-hmm.

Go out for a walk that, I've forgotten the science now, I've forgotten what it's called, but that left, right, left, right, left, right motion Fran mentioned it, I'm sure, when she did her—

it's like parasympathetic and things, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, it activates your— it's called something, I've forgotten, but it activates your parasympathetic nervous system, which is all about rest, digest, safety. And also when we can see a big expanse, so when we can see the sky, for example, and maybe we see some trees, we co-regulate with that, we connect with that, so it sends us signs of safety. You'll notice sometimes you have good ideas when you're walking because you're in that almost most subconscious flow state. So then you can start to imagine, what would my ideal grandmother say to me when I am, uh, as I'm experiencing this difficulty? Now, one of the questions that was asked at Manifest was, um, something about specificity. I can't remember. When we start getting really into the nooks and crannies and we want specific details, that is control. That is us trying to control something we don't understand. So it's about, okay, cool brain, I know you're trying to protect me by finding a way for me to control this situation, but I don't want to be in control. I want to be open. And allowing yourself to be open to what's there. Now, if your body, your system, if you are not used to doing that, it's going to be very difficult. We are asking our intuition to kick in, and our intuition is going to be a bit like, I'm not interested in you because you're usually shutting me up and shutting me down. I don't trust you. So we need to develop it as a practice and do it over and over again so that we build the strength, we build the trust with our inner knowing so that we are able to access it. But utilize the power of that imagination. It's a bit like visualization. I even— I've got a pink contemplation chair, and the way it's shaped, it feels a little bit like a hug when you're sitting in it. I imagine I'm 7 years old and I'm sitting in my grandma's lap and I'm being comforted by her, and she's sharing some words of wisdom.. So I have got like the feeling, the sensation of it having as well, um, of, of that as well. But give it a go. Don't expect it to be any one particular thing. Allow yourself to be open. And when those, um, inner voices, inner chatterings do happen, welcome them. And I, I understand you're trying to protect me because we're doing something we're uncertain about, but I don't I don't need protection right now. I'm open.

It is kind of the same principles as manifestation, really, like becoming less controlling and more trusting. And absolutely, for me, when I try that work, the right people just seem to appear in my lives anyway, naturally.

Yeah.

Um, but I know with your work around manifestation, spirituality, psychology, neuroscience, coaching, all at once, have you always been comfortable bringing all those worlds together, or did you ever worry that they just didn't belong?

No, I've never— so even when we think about spirituality, it is a science that we haven't been able to exactly quantify. But when you look at spirituality, a lot of the practices within spiritual, whether it's Law of Attraction or whatever the case may be, people make a mistake and they think Law of Attraction is I'm just sitting down in my bed and manifesting and that's it. No, it's not. It's about about taking the action. It's about being the person. It's about having the attitude of somebody who is able to take action that's in alignment with what you want to create. That's neuroscience. When we talk about things like, um, like visualization— visualization is something that is used by athletes all the time because there is a science behind it. So for me, it's all— I, I love a bit of science. I really do. For me, it's all part and parcel of the science. I've never been— so I've grown up in a culture that is quite spiritual anyway. I talked about leaving, uh, libations and all the rest of it. Um, one of my, uh, grandma's friends said to my mom, oh, uh, be careful with her, she's sensitive, she's got that gift. Um, and what they were talking about essentially I think, is being intuitive. Um, so it's never— I've grown up in a multi-faith household. My dad's Muslim, my mom's Christian. I've never been in an environment where it's not an ecosystem. I've never been in an environment where it's got to be binary, stoic, black, white, left or right. It's always been a blend, so I've always felt comfortable with it. And they— these are things that I have— I really struggle to share things I haven't embodied. That's when I feel like an imposter, because I feel like I'm just regurgitating something. So when people question or maybe challenge it, I've got a grounded response, and my response is, this is it, and you take it or leave it. I don't need to prove myself or anything. So I think maybe it's a bit of a blessing of being an underdog. When I was a social worker I look younger than I am, so I was younger then. So people thought, "Well, who is this girl in short trousers?" Because I am warm, I find humor in most things, sometimes people may take that as a mistake that I'm not serious. I'm very serious. I know what, when I know what I'm talking about, I know what I'm talking about. But I also know that I don't need to know everything. So I've never, and I don't need to be right all the time.. So I've never felt like, oh, this might be perceived to be whatever the case may be. I just know it's not for you. And for the people who are attracted to my work, that is exactly why they are attracted. They don't want to sit down in something that feels very binary. They don't want to sit— they know that life is a tapestry. They don't want to be somewhere where it can only be one thing. So even people that on the outside would consider that— people would consider them to be really professional. One of the things they enjoyed about my book, for example, is how there were things that are slightly spiritual woven within. There's joy practices, there's the science, there's the personal experience, there's my own personal experience. They enjoyed that combination because that's what life is.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of people connect with real life kind of experiences as well, because like you say, life isn't black and white, it's not linear. So it helps people process what's actually going on for them as well. So just nipping back to our ancestors slightly, what do you think that they actually want for us? Is it like materialistic things like success, wealth, or achievement, or is it something much deeper than that?

I think it's much deeper. They may want the material things because— so I'm from a working-class background. My mum was very hardworking and she wanted that social mobility, so she was able to do stuff that meant we went from living a working-class life to a middle-class life. But when I think about my, like, even just my grandparents, they would want me to have wealth and material goods so that I'm living a good quality of life. But the ultimate thing is for me to be living a good quality of life, for me to be accessing things that weren't accessible, maybe because of the time they were living in, that weren't accessible because women didn't behave a certain way at that time or didn't have access to, you know, my grandmother was a woman when women legally couldn't have bank accounts unless they were having a co-signatory by a man or whatever. So I think they want what will support us to live well. Now, when I think about Bronnie, what's her name, with her book Five Regrets of the Dying, I don't think many of our people say they regret spending quality time with people. They don't, they regret spending so much time at work. I don't think they would want us to be working our fingers to the grindstone or whatever the saying is and not coming up for air and being able to enjoy our lives. I think they want us to live the lives they weren't able to live.

So if every single person listening to this episode finished truly believing that they were already their ancestor's wildest dreams, what do you think would change about the way that they live tomorrow?

I think that we wouldn't— and I'm including we, I'm including me in this— we wouldn't come from such a place of scarcity. Mart, just yesterday— do you know Samantha Hearn? I'm sure you do.

Yes, I do.

Yeah, of course you do. So yesterday I was messaging with Sam and she said, oh, how was your June?

June.

I was very ready to say, oh, it was okay, but she made me think, Mart, when I listed off the things I had done, experienced, witnessed, facilitated, whatever, June was bombastic. But because I'm thinking, right, I've got to make sure I smash July, blah blah blah, I wasn't even giving June the gratitude and respect it deserved. So I want us to start to— my goodness, even 2020 me would be so proud of 2026 me. So I want people to start to— I asked Fran a question about gratitude because there was something she shared and I was like, "I don't know if I can be grateful for all of these things I've experienced." That I'm working on. But being grateful for what you have done, what you have encountered, what you have been able to facilitate, it gives— when we talk about confidence, when we talk about self-esteem, that is the real confidence booster. That is the— you don't have to fake it to make it. You don't need any affirmation. It's something real that has happened. It fuels you. It feels regenerative so you can keep going. So I want everybody— part of the board meeting I have with my ancestors Beyoncé, Bad Bunny, and Grace Jones is— part of that is reflection. Because if I'm not invited to do it, my mind is racing. Gotta, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta. I think that when we can do that, we can step out of that scarcity. Now I'll be, you know, a bit bold. The vast majority of people here are living in a country where we have got access to facilities and resources, even if they're shoddy, that there are many places in the world this doesn't— that this level of support doesn't exist. So even if we think on that level, I remember in 2020 when I had to get a, um, bounce-back loan. I could have been like, oh my goodness, you've got a bounce-back loan, blah blah, this, that, and the other. But I was really grateful and appreciative that that was available to me, and it got me through a rough patch. And then of course, that gratitude meant that I could see other opportunities, and I then went on to of my biggest, my biggest launch at that point in time that I didn't even think. I said, I wanna, I wanna create a product that replaces my last permanent social work salary. And I did that. If I hadn't had that bounce back loan and been grateful for the ability to have that, I don't think that would've happened. So we've got to give ourselves grace and pour a whole load of gratitude on it because that's how we show ourselves care and respect.

I have to say, you did inspire me last night when I saw your Instagram post about how your June had been. I read through it and I just had such a big smile on my face because I was like, you've actually done all sorts. Even in Newcastle, you were in Newcastle for what, 4 or 5 days? You did Manifest and Atomic on back to back. And then every— seeing everything else that you achieved through June, and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna do that. And all I did was I opened the photo album on my phone, and I just went back to the 1st of June, and I just scrolled through, and it was filled with pictures of my little boy, manifest, um, beach days, walking the dog, just lots of things to be grateful for. And I went to sleep last night feeling so grateful and so full about how my June had gone, because just like you, I'm already thinking about the second half of the year, thinking about what am I to do next. It's that toxic productivity with me as well. Um, but honestly, thank you for that because it truly inspired me just to sit back, reflect, and almost like sit back and smell the roses, which is something that I always struggle to do. I'm always on to the next thing. Like, even Manifest, it finished on the Sunday night, and immediately Monday morning, rather than thinking, wow, I did that, I sat there and I went through all these venues, contacting them, can we have our event at your venue next year? And it was almost like I'm not even giving myself time to just sit back. So I just want to say thank you for that because because you did inspire me to do that the other evening.

Um, before you go on, Mart Tweedy, I want to say thank you because Manifest was a huge part of my June being the way it was. And Mart, I had conversation upon conversation upon conversation at Manifest, after Manifest, constantly people raving about you in a really grounded way about how you had helped them change their lives, how you had seen them for who they are and helped them believe in themselves. There aren't many people that can walk around with that. And I will say that you made us all as speakers feel so loved, so cherished, so, so supported and special. I said to someone, I think that Mart's actually an angel in disguise. I really, really do. I really do believe that. So, and do you know what as well, I think that the way you considered what needed to be there so people got a well-rounded experience was phenomenal. And I've walked away from that event with my heart full. Professional pictures, video, this, that, like, your, your heart is so big and beautiful and gorgeous. I'm really grateful that Susie Ashworth put you onto me so that we are now here and Fran and I can take pictures making a Mart sandwich.

No, thank you very much, Susie Ashworth. No, thank you for that. It does mean a lot to me. And it is going back to that connection thing that we were talking about earlier, because I like to overdeliver because I like people to be happy and it's people pleasing. And that's what it comes down to. So even, you know, when you were at the hotel, for example, I went round and I dropped a little welcome bag off with a little candle in and a book just to say welcome to Newcastle with a handwritten note. Because I always think about what would I like in my life if I was going to something like this? And I always try and overdeliver. And even, you know, down to your walk-on song, like, I know that Desiree, You Gotta Be is one of your favourite songs. So I thought, I'm gonna use that. I was so moved!

Approved.

It's every single little detail that I think about. I've probably got autism, to be fair. That's what it comes down to. Well, but it works in my favor because then people, you know, connect with me on a, on a greater scale. So thank you for that. I really do appreciate it.

Anybody listening, as soon as those Manifest 2027 tickets come out, you better buy one for you and a pal because I'm telling you, I just think about it and my heart gets a boost.

Oh, thank you so much. Just before we wrap this episode up though, Tamu, if your ancestors could leave every listener with one message today, what do you think that they'd want every single one of us to hear right now?

I think they would want every one of us to hear right now. I'm just thinking about the words. Hold on. Don't dismiss it because it comes easy to you. You were talking about manifesting and creating things and not being able to hold them. Sometimes we do the manifestation work and then it comes faster, bigger than we expected. And we decide, especially if you've got a toxic productivity pattern, I haven't worked hard enough to earn this. And subconsciously we do something to fumble. But we've built that skill over our lifetimes probably. And maybe some of it is the stuff we've inherited from our ancestors. So don't knock it because it comes easy to you. You're not being lazy. It's not that you haven't worked hard enough. It is something that you have been designed to do. So don't take it for granted.

That's a mic drop ending, if anything. Where can people find you online, Tamu?

The best place is to come over to my friendship bench, that is Instagram. I'm there, tamu.thomas. Come and play.

And I will pop all of your links in the show notes for today's episode. Thank you so much for spending this afternoon with me. With us. Honestly, it's been lovely to hear what you have to say. And honestly, your talk from Manifest, for me, it was just chef's kiss. I loved it so much. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, please go and give Tamu a follow over on her Instagram page or follow her links below this episode in the show notes. Please leave me a rating, a review, or subscribe to this podcast. We have new episodes every single Friday. And I will see you back next Friday for another episode. Speak soon, guys.

Bye!