Episode 277 Elevating Sales Mastery: Skills for Deep Prospect Understanding

All right, welcome to another episode of Closers or Losers. Jeremy Miner, founder of 7Level, here with our CEO Matt Rider, working from home again. He's the home based business guy apparently now, but we are back in action. Matt, what's going on over there in Sydney, Australia? Not even at the office today, I noticed.

Just. Just trying to get by.

Just trying to get by having a rough life. Okay. So I know in a previous episode, one or two episodes ago, that we had a, you know, we always do these episodes around what you guys ask us in the comments, you know, and different things that we see on YouTube or our IG ads or Facebook ads or our Facebook groups, you know, like Sales Revolution Pro. And a lot of you like, hey, can you break down? Because, you know, a lot of these questions come from non clients because they just don't understand like a client would. Right. So a lot of non clients ask us like, hey, I hear an APQ all the time, which can you break it down? Like, what do all these sections mean? And then a couple episodes ago, we broke down like the connection phase, like connection questions, you know, taking the focus off of us putting them. And then we broke down situation questions and helping the prospect find out what the real situation is. Because as you know, Matt, in every industry we train, every industry on the planet, by this point, most prospects don't really understand their real situation, even if they think they do when you initially start talking to them. And they might know they have a problem, but they don't understand the depth or how bad the problem really is or the consequences of what happens if they don't do anything about it. So if we're wanting to help our prospects see they have problems, they didn't think about that. We first have to get them to see and feel and understand what their real situation is. Because if you can't get them to see what their real situation is, it's impossible to build a gap to where they want to be if they don't understand where they're at. Am I right?

Exactly.

What are your thoughts when you first learned that for me a long time ago, before you're even, you know, here as a business owner and you're a client, what stood out in your mind? What caused you to shift?

I think it was like the, the, the vibe of the call shifted a lot because you're like a lot of sales training that I was taught at least was to probe extremely deep, extremely early. At the moment you have any sort of like, oh, I want to lose weight. You're like well, how much weight and how long have you felt that way? And what would it be like if you could lose weight? And so you find a problem and you try and go very deep very quickly, whereas napq doesn't do that. It has a process that gets that out of people but over time. And I think that that is where the term buyers or liars comes from, which is not true. It's just that you haven't been good enough to hear the whole truth. And it kind of, like the way that it kind of broke down in my head was like in order for someone to really tell you what they want, they have to be willing to be vulnerable because there's an element of vulnerability. And so, you know, if you walk into an elevator and just go like, hey, how's your relationship with your mother? It's a weird question, but if you get stuck in an elevator for an hour, you'd probably get there.

Yeah.

So you've got it. Yeah, you got, you got to build that trust and that vulnerability with the person so they feel comfortable to tell you the whole story. Yeah, like the entirety of the story. Because getting fit. Yes, but really it's losing weight. But really it's losing 23 pounds so they can fit back into their wedding dress because they just got divorced and they want to make their husband regret it. You know what I mean?

Like, like that's just losing weight. It's in that.

And you won't get that in the first two minutes. You just won't.

You won't. Because there's not a trust there. Right? Yeah. So situation questions, those are more factual questions, but it starts to open them up to go deeper with our more of emotional questions we're asking and problem awareness. Right. So I just wanted. If you guys are watching us on YouTube right now, I'm going to write this out. So you've got connection here. We're taking the focus. Connection questions, take the focus off us, put it immediately on the prospect. That's called disarming. All right, so we have to disarm the prospect where they let their guard down. That's the first step. Can't get them to let their guard down and they stay surface level. How are they ever going to open up emotion? They can't. They'll stay surface level the whole time and then give you. I want to think it over at the end of the sales process. 99% of the time it's over. Then we have our situation questions that we talked about. What is their current situation? Some people call that Their current. Current state. That's what Matt just talked about. We're getting some facts around what they use now, what they have now, what's going on, depending on what you sell. B2C, B2B. It doesn't matter. Now we're moving into how do we build the gap now that we. We understand what their real situation is and more importantly, they understand now what their real situation is. Okay, so we've got. Our situation question is up here, okay, current state. I'm writing this out on the vibe board now. We have to build the gap. Okay? Now the gap, the first part of that gap, is really built by what's called problem awareness questions. And that's what, that's what that means, awareness. Because most of your prospects don't understand what the real problems are when you first start talking to them. So with problem awareness, here's the. Here's the thing that separates average salespeople from good salespeople to legends of salespeople. Average salespeople can typically, in most industries, find out at least one problem the prospect has. But like you said, they're just finding out. Look, in fitness is your example, they want to lose weight. Okay? That's a problem, all right? And that's what they find out. And that's it. And they just keep on going. Now, good salespeople can typically help the prospect find out the root cause of that problem. Keeping to your example, in fitness, the root cause might be, you know, they're overeating on Saturday nights, they're not exercising, they've got lots of stress. See, that's the root cause of the problem for that industry. And good salespeople can find that. But the legends in sales that make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, if not more, are able to find out the problems, the root cause of the problems, but most importantly, find out how the problems are affecting that prospect, even personally. Right. Like you said, having to fit wants to fit in the wedding dress because they just went through a divorce and they want to make their husband jealous. See that, that having that weight is affecting them personally because maybe they have a lower sense of self worth now or whatever it is. Right. It depends on what you sell.

Yeah.

Your thoughts.

Yeah. Like, you know, it's. It's key to get, you know, to the, like, emotional root cause. You know, there's like, the tangibles that are, like, the symptoms of, like, the problem, and then there's like the real problem, which is, you know, which is something that you really want to get to, and it's about, you know, I think what any PQ does really well is it. Is it gives you a process.

Yeah.

That does a lot of that heavy lifting for you.

Yeah.

And I think that that's what really changed my, you know, someone who's like, oh, scripts are terrible. You just sound like this person. Like, you know, good salespeople don't need, like, no, no, great salespeople have scripts. That's just. If you talk to anyone who is a seven figure earner in sales, 90% of them will have scripts. They will have a very particular process. They just execute on it masterfully.

It doesn't mean they don't. They don't read the scripts. They have read the script questions memorized, where it's natural, right?

Yeah, it's exactly. And that comes from practice. Like, you know, I. One thing that I really enjoy doing is using an EPQ in networking and like social situations. So like I was in a, I was on a boat party. It was my personal trainer's end of year sort of client get together. Hey, I did this. This. I was choking this lady. And I don't like talking about myself on those because like that doesn't really benefit you. Usually people don't want to. They want to talk about themselves.

Yeah.

So I met this lady and I was like, hey, how are you? How long you've been training with Connor? Oh, great. You know, this, this and this. And I was like, hey, like, what do you do for work? She's like, I work with FIFA or something like that. And I was like, oh, you like, how long you been doing that?

Cool.

Do you like it?

Yeah.

What do you like about it? Let me ask you a question. If there was one thing you could change about, I guess either what you do day to day or the amount of freedom it gives you, would it be. And turns out she had a side hustle.

Yeah.

And she really wanted to get that side hustle up and through. After 20 minutes she said, you know what, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to go phone on my side hustle.

Yeah. Now if you were a recruiter or like a network marketer, seem to be great questions. Get them to switch over to their own business. Right. I love that.

But it was like, it wasn't that I had no dog in the fight. I didn't care if she did that.

Yeah.

But I was just like, just through some questions, she started realizing herself that she wasn't fulfilled and happy with what she was doing. But she loved her side hustle. But she did what? She was scared to do something about it, and then she. She actually quit there. And then on the boat, she said that you.

What you did is you got her to internalize and feel so much internal tension from your questionability that allowed her to feel such a big gap from where she. Where she wants to be. And when they feel that big of a gap and they feel that pain, what's the number? What's the biggest human emotion that drives change in a human pain? Right. Everybody hears no pain, no sale. But nobody knows how to trigger pain is like this, Griffin. Nobody knows how to do. So pain drives a human being to want to change. And when you help them relive that pain by the. How you ask your questions, especially your tone, because that's how they interpret why you're asking the question. You know, whether you care or, you know, whether you're just asking it to manipulate them. That causes them to either open up and go below the surface like she did and feel internal tension, or it causes them to close off and stay surface level.

And I got told by my trainer that for like a month after that party, all anyone spoke about on their sessions was me.

Right? Yeah.

Because they were just. Who was that guy? Because I didn't say a word about myself.

They like the Phantom guy. That was. Yeah. Interesting guy in the. In the. On the boat.

Yeah.

Never said anything about them, but he was the most interesting guy because they felt so unique themselves. That's what it was.

Yeah, it was a good lesson.

It was a really interesting spawn. Like an undercover MI6 agent or. All right, so we got problem awareness. We have to build that gap. Now what are we building the gap from? So we're building the gap from what's called the current state to what they're. What is called their objective state.

Okay.

All right, now that's more like, what is their future look like once all the newfound problems are solved? Does that make sense?

But, Jeremy, I sell rich people, and they don't have any problems.

Well, what do you. To give me an example?

Like, I sell Lamborghini.

Yeah.

Because people don't have any problems, Jeremy.

Yeah, that's true. There's never been a product or service ever invented that doesn't do one of two things. Solve a problem and. Or an emotional need. Right. So with Ferraris, because, you know, we train people that have luxury car dealerships.

We train super yacht salesman.

Super yacht salesman as well. Where Those are like 50 million for a yacht or more. That doesn't necessarily solve a problem. Right. Because if you're. If you want to go from the grocery store to your house, you don't need to drive a $500,000 Ferrari. You can drive a used Honda, right? But that. What that does is solves an emotional need. It could be that when they were a kid, right, Their dad said, you're never going to amount to anything. You're never going to be able to do anything because you're not going to be a doctor like me. And let's say the daughter was like, no, I'm going to prove my dad wrong. And so she made it and she's successful. She goes out to buy that car to solve an emotional need about her dad saying she never amount to anything. It could be somebody that wants more social status in their neighborhood to show everybody else that they're wealthy and successful. Right. It could be maybe they grew up poor and they were bullied, and now they want to show all those kids from their class 50 years ago, but now who's the man or who's. Who's really a ride. Right. So that solves. That type of car, solves an emotional need, right?

Absolutely.

There you go. So I can understand.

It's understanding your prospects, right?

Yeah. So I can build a gap, even that from their current state, current situation, to where they really want to be, their objective state. I just know I'm working more on solving an emotional need. And now here's one thing, though, that everybody's understand. Most products or services actually do both. Like if I'm a real estate agent and I'm selling properties, I can solve a problem. Maybe they want to have a home that has five bedrooms, and 10 years ago they bought a condo that had three bedrooms, but now they have four kids and now there's no freaking room. So they need a bigger house to solve the problem of not enough room. Or it could also solve an emotional need because maybe the. The wife, like, doesn't like the way the, you know, the. The whole kitchen is in her house and she wants.

Or it's a school district thing as well.

The school district. She wants it to be in a better school district so they have a better. See, we're solving emotional needs. Like so many products or services actually do both.

Yeah. Fantastic. I think, like, one of the things. Yeah. Is like, you know, like the, the moment in time for a lot of things is like, you know, you're. When you're selling a house, you're not selling a. Five bedrooms, four bathrooms, and, you know, square footage. You're selling. That's where The Christmas tree will go.

Yeah, well, you're really selling the results of what that does for them, Right. Memories, you know, there's so many different things you have to find out from them. So anyways, let's go back.

All right, so what are the principles of, like, getting them from that current state to that objective state? Like, what are some of the boxes these guys need to tick?

Okay, well, the boxes we need to take because problem awareness questions and really the first half of what's called solution awareness questions.

Yeah.

Build that gap from where they are to where they want to be. Now, there's different ways to ask problem awareness questions in different industries, right? So let me give you an example. Let's say that you're in an industry and you start asking situation questions to find out about their current situation. And usually most prospects start going off and telling you a few things they just don't like about it. Okay? So one way I might get that prospect to pull me in with my first problem awareness question, even though they've already said some things they don't like, I might simply get them to almost dig in their heels and defend themselves on why they don't like it. So I might start asking. So help me understand, though, because you've been. I mean, you've been with X, Y, Z Company for five years. I mean, it can't be all doom and gloom over there. What do you like? Now why would I say that even though they've already said something they don't like? But. I know, but I'm. It's almost like I'm arguing with them. Now hold on for a second. You guys have been using them for five years. I mean, it can't be all doom and gloom over there. What don't you like? What do you like? Or what do you like? Oh, well, don't get me wrong. We like this and we like that. Okay, but besides. And then you repeat back what they already said they didn't like. So besides what you brought up before, what would you change if you could? Well, I also don't like. And now they're starting to go down a different path of other things they don't like. So it's a way, when I ask them, like, I'm almost earning them. Like, I mean, it can't be all doom and gloom over there. What do you like about it? I'm going opposite. And then they tell me. And because I'm going opposite, they let their guard down. Because salespeople would never ask them what they like about what they Already have, right? Yeah, but because I do it in that. Now notice how my tone was more of a sarcastic, playful tone. If I'm like this now, pay attention to my tone here. I mean, you've been with them for five years, John. It can't be all doom and gloom over there. What do you like? What would you change if you could See that that's not gonna. That's not gonna elicit any type of emotional response. But if I'm like this, I mean, but hold on for a second. I mean, you guys have been with these guys for five years. I mean, it can't be all doom and gloom. What do you like about it? See how my facial expresses change? I'm like, almost kidding them or like skeptical and like. Well, don't get us wrong. I mean, we don't like that, but we like this and this. Okay, but what would you change if you could, though? Well, you know, we like. We don't like this about the. Oh, hold on. What do you mean? And I'm probing and clarifying, but one thing most people don't understand is not only is it that you have to learn the right questions to elicit that response. The most important thing that we train in, in my just all my work, you know, in behavioral science and social dynamics, is the delivery of the question and how the prospect interprets why you're asking it. Okay, because if they feel like you're asking a question to manipulate them that you're going to use later on to try to close them, they will emotionally shut down. However, if I change my tone, and sometimes asked in more of a concern tone, they open up. Because the way our brains work, and we've talked about this before, the ray our brain works is your reptilian part of your brain. Actually, before your brain hears or interprets anything you say, it hears the tone of your voice first. So your prospect is hearing your sound of your voice, the tone of that voice, before they even can interpret your words or what the words mean. So if your tone sounds needy or timid or worse, aggressive, way salesy, too excited, how are they interpreting any of your words? They're interpreted as salesperson trying to sell me something. And so they instantly go into fight or flight mode and try to protect themselves. But if your tone comes across more relaxed, more conversational, more unbiased, like you're not quite sure you can help yet you don't know enough about their situation that typically if you come across detached, that causes them to lower their guard because they don't view you as a threat. Right.

Yeah. I think also for that, like, when you discuss the positive, the negative is more considered.

Yeah. And why is that in our brains?

Because they're. They're able to let their guard down and they're able to kind of go, like. They're. They're also thinking about it. It's like, well, I do like these things. So then it stops, like the. Like, it stops like the surface level complaint.

Yeah.

Like, oh, it's a bit annoying. It's like, no, now they have a chance to consider it because they've. They've said the positive thing. Now they don't feel like they're complaining. They don't feel like they're whinging. They feel like they're just, like, expressing a concern, like a genuine concern. You get far more powerful. Like, well, even the way that I did my sales is because of the industries that I was in. If I would say, like, well, like, do you. Do you like the process you have in place now? They said, no, I hate it. I would say, well, it can't be all terrible. You're doing it. So, like, tell me, like, give me some positives. Like, what do you like about. I would push them to always give me the positive.

Yeah.

So that I could get a much better negative. So there's the negative.

Was it.

Yeah, it always had so much more power. So I would go, oh, okay. Yeah, I'll go, okay.

You rest. What they like. Now, another thing you can do, like, if they start talking about how everything's, you know, awesome. We like this, we like that. You can quite literally just say these few words and then they'll instantly push back. I mean, John, sounds like things are a hundred percent perfect over there. No, I don't mean it's 100% perfect. Hold on. What's not perfect, though? Well, so you say, if you're like, john, I mean, it sounds like everything's a hundred percent perfect over there. No, I didn't. It's not a hundred percent perfect. What do you mean? It's like, if you say a hundred percent perfect, nobody thinks anything. Nothing's ever 100, 100 perfect. So they'll instantly push back. It's like if you bought a Ferrari today. Now that we're on the Ferrari kick, you love it. First couple days. First couple week, three months later, when you have to go replace the tires after 2,000 miles and you're like, holy shit, this sucks. I got to spend eight grand. You don't like it now, right? So.

Or you're or your neighbor just got the next one up.

Yeah. So now there's something you don't like. So no human being likes.

You know, he's, he's got the, the V12 and I've only got the 10. And when he starts it up in the morning, it's so much. You know what I mean? Like, that's why when we were. When we were training one of the supercar. Sorry, super yacht salespeople, I had a conversation with him and they said, every single super yacht is always for sale. And I said, why? And they said, because the owners are never satisfied because their friends get the next one. So they go on, they have 100 foot yacht, their friend gets 110. They go on the 110, they go, you can really feel the extra 10ft. And they go and put their yacht on the market. Yeah, right. Well, then they go, put their yacht. And then they buy 120. Their friend goes on the 120, they buy one third. Like, that is literally the cycle that happens because they're always trying to outdo each other. And so you're fulfilling an emotional need to be the guy that has the boat that everybody wants to be on.

Yeah. Oh, we can go a step further. Look at any relationship that anybody's ever in. Remember, they call it the honeymoon stage for a reason. You think that they're perfect, everything's great, and then three, four months later, like, and I really don't like that. And I'm really annoyed by this. And they do that. They don't even see. And then we start to change. Even though when we first met them, 100% perfect. Right. So sometimes you say, I mean, sounds like things are 100% perfect with vendor X. No, no, I don't mean they're 100 perfect. I mean, hold on, what do you mean? Like, and I just probe there and they'll open up. Okay. All right, we're a little bit out of time. I just wanted to focus on, I think, awareness questions.

Well, we got a few more stages. We got Solution consequence, commitment and presentation.

Solution awareness question is going to take a whole podcast. That's why we're going into.

So, so, so will consequence.

Yeah, yeah, true. Yeah.

And then we can probably combine. So we got probably three more parts.

Three more we'll break. So that's problem awareness questions. You want to learn more about problem awareness questions? Make sure you. The first place to do to learn about that is to join our Facebook group. So should be a link on here. Sales Revolution Pro. Sales Revolution Pro. Right. When you log in there, a couple questions, survey, and then you can even message us in there. Live in the group two or three times a week, different Q and A's, different trainings, those type of things. And voila. Should we have them get the book?

Maybe?

I don't know.

I have one.

I mean, it is an orange book. I mean, no, I mean it's. People like orange these days. So if you want to pick this book up, go to Barnes and Noble's website right now. This is the new model of selling, Selling to an unsellable generation by Jerry Acuff and Jeremy Miner, a good friend, Jerry Acuff as well, sales trainer. And we break down and give you tactical skills to learn in this then. My biggest complaint about sales training books is it's all theory. And I'm like, well, theory. I didn't learn anything from this.

Yeah, most of them never sold anything.

Same thing. Theory. They said 17 times in a 200 page book. So we wanted to put like what questions to ask and here's why you ask them and here's how the brain responds. So if you want to start selling more, go to Barnes and Noble's website, purchase the book right there. $17. If you need a GoFundMe page because you don't have the $17, just hit us up. We'll have somebody reach out to, to start a GoFundMe page for you for the $17 investment so you can sell more. But go get this book right now on Barnes and Noble's website. It's a bestseller, Wall Street Journal bestseller, and Barnes and Noble bestseller as well. And join the free Facebook group, SalesRevolution Pro. Matt, thanks for being on. We'll see you soon.

All right, guys. Bye.

Hey guys. If you enjoy these, join our free sales revolution group. Join us and we're gonna help you. Thanks. We'll see you real soon.