Episode 279 Gaining Valuable Insights for Driving Sales Outcomes

All right, welcome to another episode of Closers or Losers. Jeremy Miner, founder of seven Level, here with our CEO, my business partner, Matt. Where. Where are you, dude? I just looked at your background. I don't even know.

This is my dining room.

You're in the dining room today. All right. Doesn't work in the office anymore. Likes to work from home. The home based guy now. Okay.

Only Thursdays.

Okay. That's right. Okay. I know you come now. Got to give you heat. I know you like to work from home. Sometimes I get, you know, the good thing about working from home is you can get a lot of tasks done, I've noticed, because you don't have people bothering you, especially if you're walled off from the kids or whatever. But creative, hard to be as creative and, you know, go through everything with everybody in the office. So sometimes you're in their office though, it's hard to get tasks done because everybody bothers you all the time. So it's just kind of depends. Okay, so today we're going to talk about, you know, if you've been paying attention to us the last couple of weeks, we've been going through the sales process of any pq. Now, if this is the first time you've heard of closers or losers or seventh level or us, any PQ stands for neural emotional persuasion questioning. And so last week we went through the problem awareness part of any PQ and how we build a gap from where the prospect is. Okay. So I'm going to show you this here. It's called so where the prospect is. Okay. And we do that by asking what are called situation questions. Okay. That's what's called their current state.

So you guys haven't listened to these or watch these? Just go back up. We'll put the link in the description of the YouTube video and of the podcast to the previous episodes that we've done about the connection, situation and problem awareness phases.

So our situation questions help them and us find out what the real situation is. We start to build the gap with what are called problem awareness questions, which we went over last week.

Okay.

And then this week we're going to focus on how to get them to see what their future is going to look like once all the newfound problems that your questionability and your tone ability allowed them to see they had that maybe they didn't understand they had. Now we call those solutions solution awareness questions. And that's getting them to focus on what their object, you know, their. It's called their objective state. So let me give You a roll down so, so you've got current state. What is their current situation? We built the gap with our problem awareness questions and part of our solution awareness questions and then the second half of our solution awareness questions. We're getting to see what the future looks like once the newfound problems are solved. Now when you started learning that. Because I think a lot of salespeople, when they first get into any pq, they get really good at problem finding and building a gap. But sometimes they don't understand that you also, besides building a gap and getting the prospect to see all these newfound problems, you also have to get them to see what their future looks like once the problems are gone. Because if you can't get them to see what the future looks like, it's not enough just to get them to see what their problems are. Your thoughts?

Yeah. It doesn't create urgency if you don't get a good solution. It means that you won't get an adequate consequence, which means that you won't drive enough urgency in order to have the sale move forward quickly. So for me, like my, you know, for, for my style of selling, the sale starts in solution awareness. That's when the real, the real nitty gritty work.

Yeah. I mean I think every once in a while you get on a sales call now with like a big company or something. But back in the day, like we're talking three years ago when you were a client before seven bubble, why was solution awareness question so important to you?

What I was selling was, was obviously fitness and coaching consulting. And so what you're selling is information that may or may not work depending on your adaptation and like adherence to the program. Right. So but like there's, there's big, it's an ROI based program. So like if you buy sales training, the whole point of it is to earn, get more skills, to earn more money. What happens when you earn more money? And so a lot of it for me was about like finding like is this a goal that's worth pursuing? Like if I put his same boat at 100 meter line in YMCA, he'll run pretty quick. If I put him in the Olympic stadium and the gold medals in the line, he'll run faster. Why? Because he knows what he's running for. Now if I release a line behind him, he'll run faster again, which is consequence. Right. Gives you that extra push to keep running. But you know, it's really important to know what you're running for, what you're doing, why you're doing it. Because that is what allows someone to potentially, for the first time running, really contemplate success. Because once you have success, it's there and it's kind of just. Just out of reach. Right.

And you want to move forward to.

Go and get it. That's.

That's sort of how I. Yeah.

And.

And there's really. There's two parts of solution awareness questions. There's really two halves. The first half, solution awareness. We're finding out what have they done in the past to fix these newfound problems that they didn't realize they had before they got into the conversation with you? Okay. The reason why we're finding that out is not just for us, but it's more for them. Because when they find out that maybe they haven't done much in the past about changing their situation, what that does emotionally is it causes them to attach emotionally. Okay. This newfound need, this newfound problem to the need of wanting to do something about it now. And so they emotionally attached the need to solving the problem. Most salespeople are emotionally attached for them to do it. But we're showing you how to get the prospect to emotionally attach the need to solve the problem, which is more persuasive, obviously.

Right? Yeah. It also gives you an insight into potential objections that you may get because they're like, well, I've been super busy. Then you can go, well, what's shifted recently to where you feel like you are able to prioritize the time to actually get these results? So you can.

Yeah, right.

And then they're going to go, well, you know, I think it's just really time and you're going to go, okay, that makes sense. And yeah, so we're able to kind of push past some potential objections.

That's really, you know, that's. You brought up a valid point. I didn't think about it. It's a lot of it is about object prevention. Right. So they might give us certain signs in solution awareness that we can help prevent that we know if we don't do anything about helping them overcome it. In solution awareness questions, we know what objections we're going to get at the end when we try to close through our presentation. Whether you sell B2C or B2B.

So if they've had bad previous experiences, well, let me ask you a question. Like, let's have them own that. Or maybe it was a scam. We can go, hey, listen, you know, the mistakes you make in the past or the tuition you pay to make the right results today, we can potentially, you know, did you marry your High school sweetheart? No, I didn't. Okay, so you didn't give up on, on, on, on partners. Right. Because of one failed, one failed relationship. So there's all kinds of things that we can do. So for that, for, for what I used to sell, really specifically, that was my opportunity to have a look at where they're at. If they're just in research mode. Hey man, what's, what's going to get you out of research mode? Yeah, right. If, if they haven't done a thing, it's like, well, yeah, why this seems like it's an important thing for you. What's really held you back from getting a more professional look upon this so we can actually start moving towards your goal?

Sure, yeah. And there's variations. And there's variations. Industry, the industry, we teach you all that in our CIRCLE programs. But you know, let's say if I'm selling like say life insurance, for example, I might say, okay, but you know, they're like, well, I just, you know, I haven't done anything. I just haven't had time to look at it. So what's possibly changed now that's caused you to want to look at getting more financial protection for the kids? Well, the reason why is, see, or whatever. Or let's say if it's. Yeah, let's say if it's solar or something. So. Okay, but why look at going solar now? Like, why not push it down the road and keep paying the rate hikes like a lot of property owners do who don't know anything about solar? Well, the reason why I need to see.

Yeah, See, basically I call that flag planting. Yeah, they, they, they plant the flag that this is the, this is my no go zone. So when it comes like they, they can't move backwards from that, from that moment in time. So it becomes like, it becomes their new normal.

So what it does, like, there's certain things in solution awareness questions where basically we're going to train you how to basically almost like push away from them. Like we're pushing back. Okay, but why now though? Why not push it down the road like unsuccessful companies would? Well, the reason why we have to do it now, see, we're pushing back. We teach you how to push back the prospect where they pull you in and they do all the work rather than you trying to push and pressure and do all the work. Because we know that doesn't work that well.

Exactly.

Well, I like some of those things you had there. I've heard some of that. Now the second half of solution awareness Questions is we're now, like I talked about, getting them to see what the future is going to look like once the newfound problems are solved. We call that, like I said, their objective state. Okay, so what is their objective state? What is the future going to look like? So, you know, I might say, you know, let's say if you, I'm going to give a couple of different random examples. Let's say if you sold business consulting and you helped small, you know, SMB type of company scale, you come in and your company helps them, you know, handle operations better systems, I might simply say, okay, so you know, besides putting in the right systems, like how do you see having outside help coming in helping you the most, though? So I might see besides blank, whatever they said they needed. How do you see blank helping you the most, though? Okay, because I want them to tell us more than one reason why they want to change. Because if we can get them to tell us two or three or four or five other reasons why they need to change, that gap gets much bigger and it's hard for them not to change. But if we can only get one reason why they might change, it's like you're risking it that somehow that reason changes. But let's say that one reason changes, but now you got them to see three other reasons they needed to change. They still follow through and do it, even though something might have changed that they originally thought they needed. See what I mean? Yeah.

Or even if it's just that one reason, but fleshed out into a lot more detail, that then brings in more kind of emotional ramifications or like more tangible benefit to them, you know.

So, yeah, so it's like if you, I mean, I just show you a few other industry specific examples. I go on all day. But you know, if you sold fitness, you were just talking about used to sell fitness, you know, solution awareness question. So, okay, but you know, you losing that 90 pounds, like how do you, how do you see your life maybe being, you know, different than it is now, though? Well, it'd be different.

Let's, let's, let's break down that tone real quick. Let's break that down because you could say, well, like let's say you lose 90 pounds, like, how would you like to be different? Yeah, that's a, that's going to invoke a much different response. Yeah, because what you said.

So your tone, See, this is important. Part of any questions you ask, your tone is how your prospects basically interpret your intention. So it's how they interpret why you're asking the question. Okay, now, there's many different types of cones. There's a curious tone. There's kind of a challenging. I call it the three C's, challenging, skeptical tone. There's a concern tone. Like you're a tone that shows empathy. There's also a confused tone. People are like, oh, you can't confuse. Well, sometimes if they say something, hold on, I'm not, I'm not understanding. What did you mean by that? Like, I'm confused. See, when I have that confused tone, it causes them to be like, he's not understanding. I need to clarify. But if I just said, hold on, I'm not understanding. What do you mean by that? They're like, well, they're not going to open up. I'm not, I have. I'm not understanding. Like, how did, how did you mean when you said X, Y, Z? Like, I'm confused.

It also allows you to challenge people. Like, you can challenge alpha type personalities with a confused tone without risking confrontation.

Okay, give us an example. What do you mean?

So if you get someone who's a real alpha type business owner and they're saying a bunch of nonsense, essentially, like, you go like, sorry, man. Like, hang on a second. You're. You're page 35. I'm back on page three. Can you, can you, can you help me understand this? Right, so, like, because you want to kind of start to dismantle what they're saying, but if you challenge them and they're not someone who. Or you haven't built enough rapport, or you're not kind of in a position to where you can status frame challenge them.

Yeah.

Then, like, that's a phenomenal way to. Like, I'm confused. Yeah. And generally speaking, a bad idea fleshed out.

Yeah.

Gets kind of.

It actually, it actually raises your status when you push back because then they start to pull you back in. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You're.

I'm on. You're on page like, like 23. I'm still back on page two. What? What? You're gonna have to walk me back. What did you mean when you said you've been trying? Well, what I mean, Jeremy, is like, now I flip that script and I raise my status. Now I'm back in control of that frame. I think that's what you're talking about. Yeah, but the tone is how you ask those questions. So it doesn't matter if it's solution, awareness, consequence, whatever. Like, I'm using my tone to cause them to think deeper about what I'm Asking. Okay, so you know, if it's like, let's say they have some type of concern and I can't move them forward, I might lean in and I might say, John, can I ask you something? Sure, go ahead. What's, what's really holding you back from moving forward? See, that's a concerned tone. Now if I said, hey, what's really holding you back from moving forward? They're going to shut down. Well, yeah, but if I'm just like.

They'Re going to get defensive, what's really.

Holding you back from moving forward? It's impossible for them not to open up from that with that concern tone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it.

And that pause as well. The, the pause is very important because I don't want to get.

It's right, the verbal pausing. Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that.

So the verbal pausing to, to me, the best way that I like to describe it is that in Western society, because I can't speak for non Western societies, we are brought up from birth. We have tone, we have the word selection, we have the body language and we have the pacing. Those are the four ways that we can convey intent of what we're saying. Yeah. If I have, you know, do all kinds of, I can, I can soften and harden, you know, things like that. And so like the pacing of something will like indicate importance, you know, and so we're, and we, we are socially conditioned from babies to just accept that and just like we know. So if I say, well, well, Jeremy, like I guess, like, like why is that important to you now though? Then whatever we were previously talking about, you'll, you'll take that because I paused giving you a signifier that what I'm about to say or what I just said is what's important. So that. Yeah, right. Is that important? Yeah. But I'm also pausing before that to prep you to go, oh, what he's about to say or what he just said. Why is to contemplate on.

Okay, but why is that important to you? See, that's. Yeah. So you're emphasizing that, but in other times you might emphasize the word. Now tell us about that.

Yeah, so, so, so why is that important to you now though? And they're always going to answer in terms of time frame. So what does that allow me as a salesperson to do? It gives me predictability of the answer, which means I'm steering that conversation so subtly.

Yeah.

That like every, everyone sounds like a lay down because they do exactly what you want because, like, when I first started learning from you what I. What I did. I don't know if I ever told you. What I did is I would. I wrote out my script that you wrote for me, and I wrote out, like, every iteration, and I gave myself a legend. So italics was, say, fast. If I had a space in between each word, it would slow me down. I use an ellipses, three dots for pauses, and then I use a bold for an inflection. Yeah. And so what I would do is I would go. I would write out my entire script exactly how I would say it. Even the stutters.

Yeah.

Do you like what you're doing now? So I would write that out, and then from there, what I did is I would then listen to my calls, and I would say, I set it like this. I got this response. And then I. Over the course of about six to eight months, working with you and sending you voxers, I created questions and a script that was so predictable. Yeah. I knew exactly how that conversation was going to go, and that's how I got up to, like, a 90% close rate. So just meticulously worded every question. So it was. It would have been very strange for someone to not answer it in the way that I'm predicting.

Yeah, exactly. That was kind of controlling the word. You're. You're focusing. Okay, but why. Why so important to you now, though? See, now I'm gonna go, well, I.

Think now the time is right. But if I say, why is that it's so important to you now that you're gonna go, well, that coaching is really what I'm looking for. So I know how they're gonna answer. It's easy. Like, it's. It makes sales so simple because it's so predictable. Yeah. I know what they're gonna answer, which means I can plan every single part of that script. And they never think it's scripted because I'm just. I'm guiding them from the back. Like, they just don't realize what's happening. I'm playing chess, and they're playing checkers.

It's. It's verbal pausing. It's verbal c. Little sounds out of your mouth as you transition from question to question.

Huh? Ah.

Okay. But I'm not understanding. When you said blank, how did you mean? Okay. Okay. And walk me through, like, what do you do to get new leads and clients now?

Huh?

How long have you been doing that for? See, I'm verbal cueing into each question. That's called. I'm bridging from question Question. And that causes the conversation to feel natural to the prospect, not scripted. Right.

And it's quick.

Yeah, it's very subtle. You. You.

When I first met you, my sales calls were 90 minutes, including a 15 minute discovery. So it was 105 for sale. And you.

Wow.

And you told me that if you can't sell it in 25 minutes, you can't sell it. Yeah, like, that's what you said.

I was like, all right, like, I don't believe that.

So then I started. I started getting down to where every call I was. I was basically presenting at minute 20. Yeah.

Comes easy at that point because you build the gap very quick if you know how to in, like, use your tone to influence and, you know, the verbal pausing and verbal cues to bridge from question to question. The prospect opens up times 20. They never opened up to their freaking spouse before. Like, they've opened up to a complete stranger they just met on a call or zoom or in person. That's the difference. Hey, if you guys want to start acquiring these skills that me and Matt are talking about, because on this podcast, we just give you basic little nibbles. Like, if you want the whole picture, if you want everything like our clients are, we just give you a few little.

Or dirt.

It's a little bit, you know, compared to the everything. So join the free Facebook group. That's where you'll start. Go to Sales Revolution Pro. Sales Revolution. Dot Pro. Right. When you join, send us a message. Send me or Matt a message, and either one of us or one of our stunt doubles. We've got 20 stunt doubles in there. We'll message you back some details. If you want to acquire more advanced skills for what you sell, if you want to start making 10 grand a month or 15 grand a month with what you sell, or you want to make 20 or 30 or 40 grand every month in your industry, we're already training tons of salespeople who do much more than that now than just message us directly in that Facebook group. Matt, any last words of advice here?

No, that was. This is really good. Next week, we'll do consequence.

Yeah, we're gonna focus on consequence questions that get them to dig in their.

Juiciest part of the sale. It is.

It's the most funnest, isn't it? The most. I always, like. I always thought it is.

It's my favorite.

It's like the favorite because then they, like, defend themselves on why they need to change and why they have to do it now, and they're, like, doing all the work pulling you in and you just ask a few questions and the sale's over. It's easy.

And it is the thing that salespeople almost never do because they don't feel confident enough or they feel like it's awkward. And it. Once you start doing consequence questions, your sales will basically double overnight.

It's like the easiest thing.

Like, it's just. It's the easiest thing in the world. It's. As soon as I saw it, I was like, ah, that makes sense.

Yeah, that makes sense why all those people are making so much money. Yeah, it's awesome.

Yeah.

All right, everybody, thanks for being on. Matt, we'll see you soon. Thanks, everybody.

All right, guys.

Hey, guys. If you enjoy these, join our free sales revolution group. Join us, and we're going to help you.

Thanks.

We'll see you real.