Aligning To Your True Values with Caryn Gillen

Foreign. Welcome to the Clarity Corner, where you'll.

Discover how to unlock and express the most authentic version of you and realize.

That this is exactly what you were looking for the entire time.

I'm your host and your coach, Megan Siemens. Now let's make some magic happen. Hello, my Clarity Corner friend. Welcome back to the show. This week we have an amazing guest joining us for one of our aligned by design conversations. We have my friend and colleague, Karen Gillen. Karen is a splenic projector. So yay for more projectors on the show. I just find when our projectors enter into this space, the wisdom that comes through really opens us all up to how can we optimize our life, our business, our relationships a little more? Our projectors really give us that moment.

To look at, you know, what, what.

Is flowing in our life and is that actually working? And Karen certainly does that. Karen is another one of my friends from the Mixer Mind that's kind of the mastermind with the focus on community that I'm in this year. And spoiler alert, exciting news. Next week we're going to have Linda Seydoux on the show who is the creator of the Mixer Mind, and you'll hear a little bit more about bringing all of these incredibly incredible humans together. But back to Karen. Karen talks us through values, gosh, in so many ways, shapes and forms. We look at values in lenses. I didn't even realize we could look at values through. And she really shows us how we can create our values and why they're actually so important. And at the end of the episode or towards the end of the episode, she gives us two questions to really get aligned with our truest core values. These questions are so good and questions are truly Karen's superpower. And I even took these questions into my journal and had a little re evaluation with my values and it was so magical. She also talks us through creating energetic boundaries, gives us a very tangible exercise to evaluate our life and really gives us a moment to come back to the basics, which is one of my favorite conversations. So a little bit more about Karin. Karen is a trusted coach, advisor and chief of staff for wildly amazing, remarkable humans. She takes the big picture view, asks the unexpected questions and helps her clients figure out what's right for them. Kaarin is known for her warm but direct manner and her laser like ability to get to the root of the issue. And it's usually not what you think it is. Her primary focus is helping her remarkable clients get what they want and do life their way, taking the most impactful route and doing it in a aligned and elegant manner. Karen is a former therapist with a master's in Counseling psychology, a certified professional co active coach through Coaches Training Institute, Master coach through the Life Coach School, and a certified Equity centered leadership Coach. She's also a mom to an eight year old future leader. She loves returning home to Alaska for snow and salt and family and is currently building a custom home in Eugene, Oregon. I don't know about you, but that bio just made me, like, form the biggest smile on my face. I hope that you're getting so excited.

For this conversation and without further ado.

Let us just dive right on in.

Hello, my friends, and please give a big welcome to Karen Gillen, my fellow projector friend. Welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited that you have a podcast now.

Thank you. It still feels so, like, fresh and new, and I'm just, like, so in love with it still. And I'm so excited to have you here because not only are you an incredibly powerful coach, but you've started this fantastic projector chat that we're in with a bunch of other amazing projectors. And I'm so excited to hear your insights on being a projector and how it shows up in your life and business and all that jazz. Because you're only my second projector I've had on the show outside of myself. All right.

Yeah.

And it's been like. It's one of the more pivotal understandings that I've picked up along the road, like, personally and business wise. So it's been really powerful for me.

Yeah, that's okay. Before we get into all of that, I do want to talk about one thing we have in common, which is that you started coaching when you were 23 years old. I heard this on your podcast recently, and I was so excited because I did that too. And I work with a lot of clients that are battling with the stories of, like, I'm too young, I'm too old to do what they want to do. So, like, what led you to starting that path at 23 years old?

I called it the Affliction. At the time, it was like, I knew that there was something that was, like, in me that I was gonna do, and I knew that it was, like, gonna be great, but I didn't know what it was called. And I grew up on a tiny island with 3,000 people in a fishing village. So it's like, I didn't see people. Like, I knew that I loved that place, but I was like, none of these lives are my life. I was clear about that. And so that was really looking around like, what is this thing called? So I just spent a ton of time trying to figure out like, what is it, what is it, what is it? And I figured it out in this Internet cafe when you still had to go to those like, oh my God, it's a life coach. And I just remember that, like that feeling of like, yes, like this is it. This is everything that I am and there's a title and like this is understandable and this is what I'm going to go do. Um, it was a long time before it was my everyday at that point because at when I was 23, that was 20 years ago and we had like Tony Robbins and Martha Beck. I think Martha Beck was around at that point. I don't even know if I'm right about that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It, this reminds me, I mean we're skipping ahead in your human design a little bit here, but you have that splenic authority in human design which for anyone who it doesn't know, listening splenic authority is this instant knowing and it is quiet, it is subtle, but you just know. And this feels very much like one of those moments. You just like saw it on the Internet and you're like, I just know, like, this is it, I've arrived. Has that voice always been easy to listen to or was that like the pivotal moment?

I think it's, it's always been easy for me to hear it. I've had times where I've negotiated with it more, you know, have varying degrees of success. And I think what I could also always have was this when I was younger, ability to override myself and just power through and you know, that wasn't the best thing for me or my body, but it did help me do a lot of really cool things that I'm proud of and you know, enjoyed at the time. But yeah, it's always been really strong. I've always had that.

Yeah, yeah.

I love that you're like, it's always been there. It's just whether or not I do it. Yeah. Or if I like negotiated with that. I love that you use that word too because I find that that is like the biggest shadow with people who have the splenic authority is letting the mind just get so involved and letting the mind talk you out of that really powerful body internal knowing. And so I love that you're like, yeah, I recognize that I like negotiate with that sometimes.

Yeah.

I have a really good example Where? Yeah, I had. I had had a friend, and she's actually who introduced me to human design. And at one point she was like. I think I was saying things like, oh, we should do a retreat or whatever, because she lived in France.

Yeah.

And even though I was the one who initiated this invitation for her, when she put out the retreat, I was like, nope. I was very clear. And no. And I. The negotiation after was like, oh, my God. But it was like kind of my idea. Do I have to go? Like, what's she gonna think of me? But I was like, you know what? She also knows human design. And like, maybe I was just there to initiate that for her and then never go on the retreat. But that one I remember really clearly.

Yeah.

Wait, so did you.

I didn't go.

Okay. And did you offer that?

And it never happened.

Okay.

They had it, she sold it. People were going to go. Pandemic happened. So all these people had to deal with all these logistical things based on the pandemic. And I didn't have to deal with any of that because I followed my. No.

That right there, I feel like, is what people don't remember in listening to that internal knowing that, like, doesn't make sense. It's not supposed to make sense.

Right.

And like, sometimes we do, like, get these little nudges that are going to protect us some way in the future. Right. Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. Incredible example of that. Okay, let's talk about your projectory self.

Okay.

So I am always so fascinated because like I said at the beginning, you started this projector group chat and you are incredible at like sparking projector energy. You just have this gift and like asking all of the right questions to this group of projectors that just like, it makes me feel incredibly recognized, which is such an important element for being a projector. So I just see you as such a powerfully aligned projector. So I'm so excited to hear just like, what insights you have. Our projectors are designed to be like our true kind of masters of systems and understanding. They are optimize things as they go. Oftentimes projectors see things about others before they even see it themselves. And yeah, just this really incredible, like, zoomed out, bird's eye, big picture view of everything. But what I find with you is that you have this incredible way of coming back to the basics. So can you tell us a little bit about having that, like, zoomed out view, but also like being able to zoom into the basics and like, bring us back to the beginning and like, kind of even making us all wonder, like, do we even all know where we're at? Do we even know where we're at right now or are we lost in the zoomed out view?

Yeah.

I don't know if I know the answer to that. I don't know if I knew that that's what I was doing. But I do know that I have a really strong value for the fundamentals. And I see like, when I like, I feel physical, like pain in my body. When I see people.

Yeah.

Honing in on tactics versus understanding fundamentals, I'm like. Because I know they're losing time and they're losing money and they're likely going to have to recover. And I'm like, this is like it's going to come back and bite them in some way. We don't know. Like, they might make a bunch of money and then have it bite them or they might like just flail around for a while.

Yeah.

But when I can see that, like, there's not this base understanding of how all these things work and what, and who they are in this process, how they fit into all of it for themselves. Like, I'm like, I can just feel it, like, oh, no. So I think I'm always just thinking that way of like, how do we make sure we're covering the bases here so that we don't get way too far ahead of ourselves?

Yeah. I feel like that's like that optimizing piece too. Like, you're like, oh, wait, we're like skipping steps. We need to optimize the system first. Like, we need to like, make sure that your system has all of the right gears and all of the right screws and all of the right bolts. And did you remember that little button over there? Like, did you press it and you're just like optimizing the system as you go while maintaining a bird's eye view. It's really incredible to witness.

Fun.

Yeah.

Okay. I like it.

I also love, I was like stalking your website a little bit in all of the best ways and literally right in your About Me section, you have. She takes the big picture view. So it's like you've always known this gift as well, and it just like shines through in everything you do. I know that there's an exercise that you love called the life wheel, which I feel like gives people the opportunity to really see their own big picture. Can you like, chat us through that a little bit?

Yeah.

So that's like Life Coaching 101. The Wheel of Life. It's like the slices of the pie. And it's like you go through the eight areas of your life, like relationship, health, fun and recreation, your romantic relationship, your home environment, your career.

Yeah.

Your money. And you rate all of those things from 1 to 10. Like, where am I at with that today? So it's a real snapshot. And then once you have that, What I like to have people do after that is to ask the second question, which I haven't heard anyone else do before, which is to rate on a scale of 1 to 5, what's my level of satisfaction with where that number is at? So if I'm at a four with money.

Yeah.

And then I rate myself at a 5 on satisfaction, I don't have to care that I'm at a 4 and not a 10.

Yeah.

Because there's something going on with my values or my life or my. Like, it just makes sense that it's at a four and I can let myself off the hook. And I'm. I mean, that's another thing I'm always looking for is like, there's enough work to do in the world.

Yeah.

Where can we let ourselves off the hook from judging where we are right now?

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that genuinely feels like. Let me get a big picture view of my own life in a way that you just, like, really present that gift to other people. I'm curious. You touched a little bit on this, but the other piece about being a projector is knowing that we're not designed to, like, go, go, go all the time. Like, we're not designed to keep up with the rest of the world in order to really fully thrive and shine in everything that we're doing. I think you touched a little bit on just like, in optimizing the system that maybe you work with a lot of people who are going through burnout of some sort.

Is that true before it definitely comes up.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Do you find that as a projector you had to go through your own kind of burnout recovery? I find that a lot of projectors I talk to hit some kind of version of that after realizing, whoa, I've been like, really running with the masses here.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, when I. What was it? Seven years ago, I left my last job. I had a two and a half year old and I had a business. And the agreement I had made for myself is, I will leave this job when I am losing money staying. So I was having to say no to clients because I was running out of hours in the day to See them.

Yeah.

So in the process of. And then I gave six months notice because I had kind of a wild job to hand off and train someone. And so I had this a whole bunch of time where I was like getting up at five in the morning to finish writing my book. And I was working a 40 hour a week job and I was coaching clients and like doing all the marketing and I had this two, two and a half year old and I was married and had a house and you know, all the other normal life things. And yeah, when I finally left, I kept waiting for the energy to come back. Yeah, I was like, well, once I leave my job, then I'll have energy again. And it just never came back. I was like, oh, I just tanked my body. And yeah, that was a real recovery.

Yeah, that's so interesting to think about. Like, oh, like how we use the if thens in something. Like feeling burnt out. Like, oh, well, if I just leave my job, then I'll feel totally better. But it kind of goes back to the life wheel exercise that you're talking about of just like, well, how is everything else operating right? How are all the other things and pieces moving in your life and those actually contribute to your energy too? So what do you feel like you've learned about like energy or spaciousness since moving through your own recovery process with that?

How much I love spaciousness. That spaciousness is a top value of mine. I did learn that.

Yeah, yeah.

That no one's going to give it to you. You have to take it. How much easier it is for me to say no to things because I know that space is important and I've learned a lot. Like once you start taking space, you learn a lot about what kind of space works for you. Like, I know that if I really want to dive into a project, I want a three hour uninterrupted block. Two hours isn't enough.

Yeah, yeah.

Like I can get some stuff done in two hours, but if I want to do like a really creative project, three hours plus. Yeah, I know that I want to have an entire day of every week. Like, I don't know where I heard this, but projectors need a pajama day.

I love that. I know.

I was like, oh, she's right. I think it was, it was a projector book I read, but I was like, yeah, so Friday I want to not show up on video calls in any way that I would expect myself to be more than having a pajama day.

Yeah, yeah.

I love that so much. My husband And I are both projectors in the house, and we have frequent lazy Sunday, and it's like, there is nothing on the books. We will stay in our pajamas all day. Maybe we'll have to start calling it projector pajama day.

Yes, it's required.

I love that so much. So if someone's listening and they're like, I don't even know, like, how to start with finding what my spaciousness looks like. Like, do you have any tips for even where to begin?

Yeah.

Notice where you won't let yourself start. Like, if you're like, oh, I have to have my first meeting of the day by 9. I'm like, what if it started at 10? What if I, like, try 11? Just see, just feel. What is it like to have a morning that has a little bit of, like, stretch in it and zero rush? Think about, like, what. What would be amazing but I could never do and then figure out how can I do, like, 10% of that?

Yeah.

I think just, like, look for the places you can experiment and see how it feels.

I feel like everyone needs to double tap on that because. Yes. Like, just 100%. Yes. I've never even thought about considering my spaciousness in that way of, like, where do I not want to start? And the magic that is in that because it shows us. It kind of, in a way, shows us where the conditioning is.

Yeah.

Right.

We have so many rules in our heads that aren't for us, aren't made up by us.

Yeah.

I love that.

Yeah.

I knew the projector wisdom would come in hot. So the next piece I want to talk about with your design is your profile, which is 2. 4. I love this profile so much. So you do. I love it. I love how much you love your design. So the two is our hermit. The two is just this person who has natural, innate talents and often, like, explaining how those talents came about can feel quite pestering. Yeah. Karen's, like, shaking her head like, I'm like, I cannot do it.

I can help you do anything. I cannot tell you how I can do that.

Yes. Yeah. And the two also needs a lot of rest and time away, which is a huge contrast with the four, which is all about networking, community, and being in space with other people. But I love the lessons that came through on spaciousness, knowing, and pulling this together with your two. I can imagine that's something that just feels so nourishing for you to have that, like, real intention behind spaciousness.

Yeah. Yeah.

The mornings are a big deal.

Oh, interesting. Okay. I love that. Tell me more about the, like, knowledge of the two, though, and like, the coming to that understanding of I can know things without having to prove how I know them. Because that is. Talk about going against some societal conditioning. Was that, right. A journey for you or something? You noticed at all?

I think it's awkward because everyone wants you to, like, yeah, put everything into good marketing language and, like, tell people how you help them and talk about your really clear outcomes. And for me, I'm always like, I don't know, Like, I'm like, I am not like a person who doesn't know how to write, copy or, you know, I know how to talk, I know how to do things. But when it's really about myself, I'm like, I am so blind. But I have so much confidence, which is weird, right? I'm like, I have no idea. I truly, like, I know I can help. I have a ton of knowing and confidence about that. And I think the longer I've been around, like, I hear the same things over and over and over again. And that helps me have some knowing and some more confidence about the fact that I can't really articulate how I can help you. But there's also sort of some, I would say arrogant pride in it of like, yeah, like, I'm not going to be able to explain it to you. And if you need me to, then I'm not the right person for you.

M. It's so fascinating, too. I just am starting to tie this together with other parts of your design. And you have your ego center defined, your heart center defined, which there is this, like, willpower and this I me energy within that center as well. And so I love that that's pulling together as well of just like, I just know it. And like, if that's not for you, that's not for you.

Yeah.

And I'm okay if you're not comfortable with it and you don't want to engage. Like, I'm cool with that.

Yeah.

Okay. I can, like, feel people listening who are like, I don't even know how to get to that energy. Like, lots of people pleasers in this space and people that. That can feel uncomfortable or having to like, just having to prove it anyways. So what's step one on, like, how do you get to that kind of unapologetic boundary?

I have a very clear, like, belief and understanding that we all have what we're here to do and that it's not my job to get in your way of where you're going. I don't want to, like, I don't want to hold anybody up trying to fit them in where they don't fit. Like, when I hired people and supervised people, it was like, if this isn't the place for you, I am actively withholding you from where you're supposed to be. I have. I want to have no part in that. I want everyone to find their place. And so I think that's probably the base level for me of, like, we're all moving around in the world.

Yeah.

Trying to get to, like, the right stuff for us. And. And we know. And I trust people.

Yeah. Yeah.

I love that. So how does this meet with the four? So you have your hermit side that's like, I just know the things, and I'm just okay with that. And you take your spaciousness. But the four is designed to find opportunities around people and around community, and I find that oftentimes my two fours have this, like, internal battle of, like, I know going to that social event would probably feel really good, and I just want to stay in my cozy cave. Do you feel that contrast?

Yes. More so now than ever before.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was like, on the Myers Briggs, I'm, like, 51% extroverted. So they were like, you can kind of choose. But I was like, oh, no, I'm an extrovert. I know. So, like, I've always leaned into social stuff.

Yeah.

And I think I'm owning more of my hermit now than ever. I think the pandemic actually helped me with that, like, to really realize, like, oh, I really like, not going all the places all the time. I'm actually okay with this.

Yeah.

I didn't know that before.

Yeah.

How do you differentiate the moments that you need your space and the moments that you need to be in community?

I don't know.

I continue to.

I try to feel it. I try to feel it. And, like, I'll just ask, like, questions of myself, like, well, I haven't been anywhere for a while, or, like, what would it feel like after that? Like, sometimes if I can tap into what would it feel like after? I'm like, oh, yeah, that would be good. I like. I like that feeling when I come home of being filled up with other people's energy.

You do know. You so know. It's like, I know. Okay.

I know.

That's actually. It's so fascinating to hear that too, though, because my husband is a 2 4. You all have a very similar design, actually. Of course, there's 2 billion different configurations of human design charts, so there's definitely Differences. But he's a splenic projector. Two, four, as well. And oftentimes, like, we'll have a social event and he's like, I just want to, like, stay in. And we do go to that future question. So that's so fascinating to hear that somewhere that you go as well. And that's something that really supports you. Like, often ask him, like, how do you think you'll feel after you go to the event? And that does ground him into, okay, is this the, you know, event to go to, the gathering, to go to the connection to make, or is it time to. To have that recharge? Time?

Yeah. Yeah.

So fascinating.

And that's another of my values is connection. It's like, oh, are these the connections that I'm invested in? And that makes it way easier to get out the door if. If it's something that I don't know a lot about and I'm not sure who's going to be there. One of the thoughts that I used when I was networking early in my business was I might meet my new best friend at this event. Like, so I was always like, there's some hope out there of, like, having a new bestie.

I love that. I feel like. I feel that energy with you too, because, like, like, I shared at the beginning or maybe two or three times throughout this, like, you created the projector group, and we're in a. The mixer mind, which is the mastermind community together. And I feel that energy of just, like, finding the bestie.

Yeah.

And it scares people sometimes. Sometimes people don't know what to do with me. I've had really good luck in the mixer mind because it's really created to hold space for who I am.

Yeah. Yeah.

Versus being in other spaces where people are like, what are you doing? Like, why are you. Why are you so. Like, I'm so connected and I want to understand your business and I want to know who you are. And, you know, I can freak people out with that sometimes.

It's the power of. Of finding the right communities. Right. And that's back to that projector energy, too, of like. Because projectors are designed to be recognized and invited in, the right communities are so vital. Otherwise, we land right in that projector bitterness, which is the not self theme of a projector, where we're like, I'm in the community. I'm trying to be seen, and either no one's seeing me, people are seeing me for the wrong things, or I just feel like the outsider looking in.

Yeah.

So it's like the power of right communities, which. I also have a 4 in my profile. I'm not a 2 4, but I have a 4 in my profile, and I'm a fellow projector, and I feel like that right community space is something I've really recently been learning and leaning into more and more that there's a difference between being in all the communities and being in the right communities. Yeah.

Right. And it's okay to leave communities behind, which is, like, that's been a hard thing for me to do. But leaning into my values always helps me be like, nope. Like, I can keep connection with the people who do fit for me and walk away from that whole scene. That really isn't for me.

Yeah.

You've talked about your values a few times, and I'm so intrigued that they are so well connected to your design. Are these values that you feel like you've always been super in tune with and maybe how can people kind of connect with their values that are really aligned with their truest self?

I would say I've always been pretty connected to some of them, but probably more in the last four or five years, they've been. I just keep them really front and center because I find that when things are hard, I can bring in more ease by understanding where my values are at in that hard situation or decision or whatever.

Yeah.

And I think the two questions for anyone who's curious what their values are, because we all have this, like, it's scary to set values because you're putting a stake in the ground, but I want you to know that you can change them. It's okay to edit and update, but we want to say things like that are on the walls of corporate offices, like integrity and courage or, you know, these fancy words that don't actually mean anything. So you have to make sure that yours work for you. And the two questions are. One is, when are times in your life where you have felt just like, the injustice or completely stepped on or silenced in some way or outraged? And what was being stepped on in you when that was happening?

Yeah.

For you or for another group of people or for whatever was happening. And the other question is, where have you felt a time in your life where you were just completely in flow, like you were being. You were, like, living out every cell in your body, and everything felt right. What was happening and what was being honored in you?

I love those questions. Those feel so supportive, and they're. They're even making me want to kind of like, revisit my values and just look at yeah. Are these feelings super aligned? Have they come from a different place of my mind?

Did they. Yeah. Did you pick them off of a list because they sounded good or. It seemed like a good kind of value that we would want to have, versus it's the actual value I do have.

Yeah. Yeah.

I love that. Okay, let us tie a bow on your beautiful design with your channels. Do you know much about your channels in your design?

Not that much.

Okay. All right. So our channels are our innate strengths in our design, and you have two that I'm going to highlight. The first one, which is the 1333, is all about listening to the stories of others and then reflecting through those. So hearing out stories and then sharing from them, which I just feel like is such a divine strength for a. For a coach to have.

Yeah.

I'm like, that's what I do all day long.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I feel like that's really, like, you know, I've. I've tapped on a little bit how powerful your questions are that really, like, engage our projector group. And also, I just. You have an incredible guide with powerful questions in it for your community as well. And I feel like this is the strength that really amplifies that in a. In a really magical way. Yeah.

Oh, that's funny.

Yeah. Yeah.

I have to ask again, because you're so in line with your design. Is this something you've always felt, or did it come alive in. In the journey of getting aligned?

This is something I've always done.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Like, I, like, go on a walk with a friend, and, like, I'll just pull out the. I just call it pulling the threads of, like. Oh. And then watching the patterns, like, it's so clear that, like, there's this, this, this, and this. It's just repeated pattern, maybe with different, like, Right. Circumstances around it. But I've seen this pop up, like, 10 times just in what you've told me.

I love that. I love that you mentioned patterns, too, because this strength that's in your throat center, which is the voice that you're giving the reflections to, but it's connected to the identity center, which is so much about, like, love and direction. So I feel like it's like creating this direction out of patterns. Really cool.

Yeah.

I think that's what reduces drag. It's like, because if we know our patterns and we know, like, how things are going to roll and we set our lives up just to move with those, then everything gets faster.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So good.

Okay. So the second one, I want to Tap on is the 2644. This is the one that comes from that heart center that I was talking about earlier, where there's this drive, there's this will, and it's connected to your splenic center, which is that, like, instant knowing. And what it creates is this strength in really. It's a strength in sales. But more than anything, it's staying alert to, like, what the needs are and then being able to just really naturally support the collective in giving kind of practical solutions. There's just this natural assessment and then matching people to what they need. And ultimately, it's kind of a gift in sales, kind of a gift in persuasion, but in a really beautiful, healthy way. I see you shaking your head and, like, smiling. Has sales, like, felt like a gift for you? Has it felt like a natural thing? Because that feels a little, like, scary to some people.

Yeah, I. I've always loved selling.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I worked in shoes. It brings me as much joy to sell someone the right pair of shoes as it does to sell, like, a $15,000 whatever, you know, like, it's the same amount of joy for me.

Oh, so fascinating. And I do feel like, especially, like, new business owners, this can be, like, a scary part of their business, like, oh, selling. But you're like, yeah, it's just so easeful, like.

Yeah, yeah.

And I teach selling. Like, I. I worked inside of someone else's sales business as, like, one of their first contract coaches, and it was, like, so much fun, and it was so in flow, and I didn't realize until then how much I loved it. But, yeah, it's definitely a part of the fun part.

Yeah. Do you find that you, like, see sales differently than maybe how it's traditionally taught?

Yeah.

I see sales as relationships and helping. So, like, if someone ends up on a phone call with me, I'm not listening for how I can sell them. I'm listening for what is the help that they need.

Yeah.

And oftentimes I'll get these, like, intuitive hits. Someone will pop into my head, and I'm like, oh, you gotta go meet Carol. And I'll be like, I'm gonna hold us up. Here's what I want you to do. Go meet this other person, because I think they're the right person to help you out. If they're not, come back and we'll have this conversation again. But, like, I'm constantly looking for what's the right fit, and sometimes it's me, which is great and really fun, but sometimes it's not.

Yeah.

I love that. And it feels like it pulls together. Like the 24 that we were talking about earlier of just, like, seeing the network, like, seeing the spider web of connections and then this strength and assessing it, and it's like, oh, here's the connection point. So it's like everything coming together like a puzzle.

Yeah.

Very relational. It's, like, not transactional. Because I want to, like, every person that we get the chance to impact on a consultation call, like, think about how weird it is for a human being to end up on one of those in the first place. How many consultation calls does your average human have? Very, very few. So I was like, if they got over all of the hurdles to get there in the first place, one, it's a huge honor. Two, it's really awkward. So three, we want to be, like, really present with them and really help them out, because what we're doing is we're moving our whole industry forward. The better that we do this. If I'm selling people the wrong thing, I'm taking all of us out, and that's not okay.

Yeah, I love that philosophy on it so much, and it makes me think of, like, the very first, like, consultation call that I got on with a life coach, and she lived in Australia across the world. Didn't know this person. Just heard them on a podcast, and I was like, what am I doing? Like, this is insane that I'm just, like, hopping on a call with someone who lives across the world who, I don't know know. I was so nervous getting on it. And I love that it feels like, like, you saying that and you leading the way and, like, teaching in that way. It feels like it kind of, like changes the whole vibration, as a collective, of that process.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So much magic. Karin, this has been such a fun conversation, which I knew entering into it. Is there anything else you feel like you just are called to voice right now? Just in all of the multifaceted directions we went in today.

Yeah.

I think what's feeling really true for me lately is, like, if you don't see an example out there of what you think your life or business is supposed to look like, that's actually great, because we're going in a new direction. And, like, especially us as projectors, we look around. We don't really want a lot of what's out there. Right. So you're creating the new world. So it should feel weird, and it should feel like maybe people don't always get it, and that's okay. And, like, I think that means we're on the right track.

I love that beautiful Double Tap moment to end on.

Thank you so much.

I'm so grateful for all your time and wisdom today.

Yeah, thank you. And thanks for illuminating a few other parts of my chart that I had not really paid attention to.

Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you're ready to get unstuck and on with a joyful life, you're ready to be magnetically you in life, relationships, business and everything in between.

I invite you to apply for coaching together.

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