(Ep. 45) The Science behind Fear & Bravery | Jill Schulman Answers Why many #solopreneurs Stay Stuck

Um, what I have found in my research is that so many times fear holds people back in the workplace and in life from doing what they know they should do or they wanna do to achieve their goals. And the science of bravery is how do we look at psychology to help people conquer those fears so they can be more successful, but probably more importantly, be their happiest selves. You know, when they accomplish these goals. So that is what my current focus is.

Welcome back to the Ideas by Mike podcast. This is Mike Milligan. Today I'm joined by a very special guest. We're recording late on a Friday afternoon, so if you're watching this, forgive us. Our energy may be drained completely. But we're going to give you everything we got today. Jill, welcome to The Ideas by Mike.

Thanks for having me. It is late on a Friday. I might have a martini by my side by the end of this.

That's where we should have done this. I had this whole idea one time when I was going to create a podcast, I was going to do it like at a bar and literally just do barstool financial advice where, you know, people will tell their bartender anything.

That is a one-of-a-kind idea, my friend.

No doubt. Speaking of that, what makes you one of a kind?

I think I, what makes me one of a kind is I think I'm an interesting combination of 3 things. And I haven't found someone who is like me. So I'm one part Marine, kind of tough girl, have that background of one of the first women ever to serve in a combat arm in the Marine Corps. So I've got that tough part. Then, I've got part of me that is the academic nerd. I've got my master's in positive psychology from the University of Pennsylvania. So, the only thing I talk about is things that is backed by evidence. So, I've kind of got tough girl combined with nerdy girl that is everything is evidence-based. And then lastly, I've also got 27 years in corporate America knowing how to drive business results. So, I feel like I've got the practical side too. So, I think those 3 things. Kind of make me one of a kind.

Uh, there's no doubt that that is unique. And I mean, like, in my 30 years of academic work and, uh, running businesses, I haven't met the Marine slash academic slash corporate go-getter.

Good.

The best way to say it. So, so tell us, tell us where you are and what you're doing, like, right now, uh, to kind of drive results. For individuals and companies?

Yeah. So I currently have a leadership development business. It's been 11 years. So I help companies drive the bottom line through basically the human side of business. So leadership development and culture, but what I'm really working on right now, which I'm most excited about is I have become a researcher, writer, and speaker on the science of bravery. Which relates to leadership development. What I have found in my research is that so many times fear holds people back in the workplace and in life from doing what they know they should do or they want to do to achieve their goals. And The Science of Bravery is how do we look at psychology to help people conquer those fears so they can be more successful, but probably more importantly, be their happiest when they accomplish these goals? So, That is what my current focus is. So I've still got the business doing leadership development and I'm kind of bringing people on and my team to deliver some of the standard classes, but I'm all in and teaching the Science of Bravery.

The interesting, we're going to come back and ask like a past question in just a second, but one of the most interesting things about being an advisor to those looking to retire is, um, one of the scariest things that, uh, people go through in their life is this transition from work to retirement. Because they've never been there before. And many people think that like retirement is death, which is not. It's actually a new beginning, a chance to live the last chapters of your life. I mean, I would love it if you could like talk to somebody who's like 60, 65, 70, retired, and just give them like some, some ways to be brave real fast. And then we'll come back to the past in just a second.

Yeah. And what you're saying is people are scared. There's fear to make this big change. So many times whenever there's a large life change or even a career change, People resist because of fear. And, you know, so one advice I can give everyone to help overcome that fear is just think of your future self and say, what does your future self want you to do in this moment? And sometimes if you listen to your future self, like as a wise mentor, it's going to guide you the right way. You have been working hard. You've got all the financial resources. And what I know as a happiness scientist, because someone who studied positive psychology, as long as you have purpose, connection, and goals that you're working on, you will live the most fulfilling life. And this comes from like Arthur Brooks has written a lot on how to age, you know, and into your years and be the happiest life. So, you're not going to stop being ambitious. You're still going to like go after goals. You're going to, but you're going to, they're going to be goals that are a lot different. So, as long as you've got that sense of purpose and you set goals and you've got connections, you're going to live the most fulfilling life. So it's just going to be different.

It's interesting because we build the one-of-a-kind financial plan so people can live the one-of-a-kind life. But we always tell people that you start that journey to the one-of-a-kind plan with building a vision for retirement. And it's interesting the words you use because we tell them they have to build, they have to build a retirement chi. And the chi is like the inner peace, the comfort knowing that where you are, where you sit, You are going to have fear and anxiety that's reduced. But we say the chi is made up of 3 elements, your community, your health, and your impact. And you said something there that I've never thought about with retirement chi before. You said that you could still have goals in retirement that are achievable.

Mm-hmm.

And like, I don't, you know, the 80-year-old who's listening to this right now, who's thinking that I'm at the end of my life, They still have goals. The 65-year-old, the early retiree at 58, they still have goals and they, they can impact, they can mentor at schools. They could be with their grandkids.

Exactly.

They could travel. There's all of this thing that this positive momentum that goes forward even into retirement, that's there. But I want to take our listeners back to how you got here. So when it, when was the first time in your life, and I hope it was Jill when she was 3, but I don't know what the answer is to this, but it's going to be. When's the first time Jill knew she was going to be kind of this kick-ass Marine corporate person, academic person? When did you, when did you know this?

The first thing that comes to mind is what I'm going to tell you, because like what I'm doing now, like sometimes you need to study like what you really need for yourself. So the fact that I studied and have become this expert in bravery, you think that I was already brave because I was a Marine and did all these like amazing corporate things. But there's something that I've always wanted. And I came to that moment of realization when I was 27 years old.

Wow.

I had just gotten out of the Marine Corps and my first corporate job was in the pharmaceutical industry. And I was at my first national sales meeting and it was like thousands of people. It was a big company. It was Abbott Labs at the time. And I was just like in awe because I had never been in corporate America, like all these people in this fancy hotel. And they had this keynote speaker. He had written a book on the power of mindset and attitude. His name was Keith Harrell, and he was the most inspiring. He had a book and it made such an impact on my life because he said this little thing. He says, each day you can decide to have a super fantastic day. He's like, it's a decision you can make. And so every time someone asks him, how are you doing? He says, super fantastic. So usually when people ask me, and this is, I I'm 51 years old now. That was when I was 27. I still say he's super fantastic.

You didn't have to say that. We don't ask your age on here because we know we're not supposed to ask women that. But like, if you want to give your weight too, while we're at it, we can also—

Oh yeah, I'll just do that too. We're not going there. So, um, so this happened at 27 and I was so impressed and inspired by him. Now, a little background too is I was the nerdy kid that was in speech team in high school. Like I just had a dream of like, and so This guy was like a superstar and he's this, I think he's like a 6'6 man. And I chased him down, this little like blonde thing, 27 years old. And I remember going like, Mr. Harrell, Mr. Harrell, like, can I ask you some questions? And I just told him, I'm like, I want to do what you're doing someday. And he sat with me for like maybe 10 minutes, gave me some advice. That's when I was 27. I'm, I'm finally doing it right now. So I'm now starting to live my dream and I do like keynotes, you know, I do my, my writing, you know, my research on it. So I, so I'm, that, that's kind of the moment where I feel like I saw a glimpse of what I really wanted to do. And I'm finally taking the brave steps to live my dream.

Have you, uh, have you had the reverse of that moment yet where you've given a keynote and keynote and somebody's come up to you at the end of a event and said, and you've given them 10 minutes. Have you had that happen?

Um, I've had that happen a lot and it's kind of that full circle moment where people are like, I want to do what you're doing someday. Right. And I always give them the time and I give them my card and say, keep in touch with me. Yeah. Yeah.

That's, it's, it's interesting that you, when you, when I ask you to think back to a moment, you think of that time with, his name was Keith, right?

Keith Harrell. He's passed away since then, but he's Still stays with me today.

There's a, there's a, there's a nod to Keith's legacy right there, right? Even though he's passed away, his name is still spoken on earth. That's absolutely amazing. And that message still resonates through your talks also.

Yeah.

So, um, let's think, uh, let's think 10 years from now. What, what impact do you hope you can make, um, to, uh, just, Just to make everything better. Yeah.

Well, the original reason I started researching The Science of Bravery is because I started looking at the data that talked about how fear is having a negative impact on people. And I say that just in general, like all people, but particularly to our younger generation. Like, I think I see the world sometimes through the eyes of the younger generation because I have kids. 2 daughters, 18 and 20. And when they're teenagers, I think, and we can, let me just state some facts here. We have the highest levels of anxiety and depression diagnosed in our younger generation. And part of the reason for that is because people think that the path to the happiest life is to avoid discomfort and to run away from what they fear. And it's simply not true. And there's not a lot of research done on the science of how to build bravery. Like, I cite all the existing research out there, but there needs to have— we need to do more research on it. So the impact that I wanna make on the world is I wanna do more research and I wanna teach people how to be brave. People think that bravery is a trait, you either have it or you don't. And that is not true. Anyone can build bravery. And when they do, they not only are more successful, and I do care about that, but what happens is their self-confidence, Mm-hmm. Their self-efficacy, their self-love increases. And then that's gonna help them avoid that depression and anxiety. So that is the mark that I wanna make. Now I speak at corporations, so that's kind of who pays the bill, but like, I think that's the mark I wanna make. If I can make a little contribution to the scientific community by doing more research on the science of bravery and then teaching it to as many people as possible. So right now, 'cause I'm just getting started, I speak on my model, on what I write about in my book. I hope in 10 years I will certify many great speakers and consultants because the work is needed out there. So that's, that's my dream that it scales and more people are helping deliver it.

I'll give you a, I'll give you a chance to impact the younger generation real fast if you want one.

Sure. I'd love it.

So I have, I have 2 daughters. I have 3 kids, but I'll talk about my daughters here. I have a 24-year-old daughter in Birmingham, Alabama, that her primary goal is trying to keep food out of landfills, right? So she's in a program called Feed Birmingham. And I have another daughter who's 20 who wants to go in nonprofit space too and like serve others. Both are, they're both brave. I think my daughters are 2 of the bravest people, which is interesting that we're talking about this is Because of like what they're choosing to do in life. But if you could tell Grace and Paige how to elevate braveness, how would you do that?

I would say that when you feel that fear, fear is not a stop sign. Many times it's a signpost at the most important thing that your soul wants you to do. So, um, it sounds like they're already brave. But, you know, what I love hearing about your daughter, so great job raising 2 amazing girls.

Well, their mom did a great job.

And their mom too. Their mom too. Let's give her a little bit of credit there. But if you have a powerful why, so like a lot of times when we want to be brave, the definition of bravery is voluntary action in the presence of fear toward a worthwhile noble goal. So your girls have found that That worthwhile, noble goal, that thing that they really, really care about. So they have that, and there's gonna always be between the impact they wanna make in the world and where they are now, there's gonna be things that get in the way of them and that goal. And many times that fear is gonna hold them back. So, you know, when they feel the fear, it's just usually, sometimes fear keeps you safe, right? Back in caveman days, Fear kept us safe. But now in today's world, many times fear is, it's more of a sign, like be curious and go, this is probably what I need to move toward instead of move against. Right? So if you feel the fear, lean in.

Wow. That's, that's amazing advice. Quick question. What's your savings account doing for you right now? Probably not much. If you're like most people I talk to, you've got money sitting in a bank account earning basically zero interest. Meanwhile, inflation's eating away at your future. That's where the high-yield savings plan comes in. It's a flexible savings approach with potential tax-deferred growth, no direct fees, and the potential to average around 4 to 7% of annual growth. It's not magic. It's just a different financial vehicle that many people aren't familiar with. We'll walk you through how it works, see if it's a good fit for you, and answer all your questions. No pressure. Click below to learn more and explore whether this approach makes sense for you and your goals. I got some just off-the-wall questions for you real fast, just so our people get to know you before we give them a chance to connect with you. Um, not a stock, so not like Nvidia or Microsoft, not— what's the best investment you've ever made in your life?

Hmm. Real estate.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. Real estate. Interesting. I mean, financial investment is what you're saying. You're saying financial investment, right?

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah. I would say, um, real estate, like when I was younger, um, I decided actually to get my real estate license when I was young. Um, and we just made some wise investments when the whole, when the market was crashing and everyone was like short sailing and trying to like sell houses, I bought. And so, and that requires some bravery. And that's another thing that kind of ties in like, Sometimes when there's fear and uncertainty, people either freeze or they flee, right? So in those circumstances, like, you know, we just know this, like, you know, the courageous usually get the favor or the fortune that comes from it. So in times of uncertainty, you know, look and see what's going on, but make the brave steps because you'll be one that will benefit. So that's one thing. I also think education, investing in education has also been a good investment, but I think real estate comes to mind.

It's interesting because you talk about like having bravery to invest. I would, I make this joke all the time when I'm either doing my radio show or just doing a stage event that if I made an offer to people that they could come to my office today And buy a 2027, you name the vehicle, Mercedes G-Wagon, Chevy Tahoe, whatever the vehicle is, you can come today and you could buy a 2027 for a price that it was in 2022. I'd have people lined up around the block to come to my office.

Yeah.

But when it comes to depreciated things, like you mentioned real estate during a short sale time, The stock market, when it goes down in value, everybody's like, they flee, they run. But like, everybody will buy something when it's on sale, a car, a piece of clothing, some furniture, but they don't buy assets when they're on sale because they're scared of them going down. And like what you just said, I was shocked to hear you say real estate. I thought for sure you were going to say education based off your 3.

Yeah, no, real estate.

Yeah, that is so interesting.

Yeah. You know what you said? I just wanna add something here, cuz it's funny cuz I give my dad a hard time cuz my dad is exactly what you say. Like, like when the market's doing well for like 6 or 7 years, he'll be like, all right, I'll start investing. And anytime it takes a downturn, he waits until it crashes, then he pulls out. And I'm like, dad, like, come on. Like when the market goes down, like I have a long way till retirement. I'm like, yes, it's on sale. And I call my financial advisor and I'm like, buy. So, um, I'm so with you, but you're right. People just, they get scared. And, um, we just talk about back to fear. If, if everyone is retreating and you're the one moving forward, you're going to be ahead.

Yeah. There's a, there's a big difference. Like, like you were talking about that, that investment that your dad made. There's a big difference between investment return and investor return. Investor, like emotional decisions and the investor return causes investment returns to lag. Got it.

Yeah.

Um, duh, I would love for you to, uh, pour in, like, as we conclude, like, pour into our audience a little bit, like a couple of highlights. And you've done this for the last 15 minutes about, like, what it, what it means to live bravely. But, um, I know your, your definition of this is going to change as you continue to do research. But, um, I know you feel deeply that everybody has it within them. Like, I believe everybody is one of a kind. I know you believe everybody has it in them to be brave. Um, what, what is that? What does that look like?

You know, I think there's always a gap between the life we're currently living and then the life that we really want, or maybe the impact we've had and the impact that we want to have. Or maybe it's the relationship that we have and the relationship that we want. So it's very healthy for us to like evaluate our life and our life situation, and then dream about what is a life that would make me the happiest. And when you figure out where you are in that life that you really want, the path to getting there, right, is many times filled with ups and downs and things that are scary. And the really sad thing in life is someone could be, let's say, pretty miserable in their career, but it's a good job and it's good money and there's good benefits, but I'm really miserable. And they really have a dream to do something a little bit adjacent, but they just never do it because they're scared.

Yeah.

So, life is too short. If you wanna live your happiest, best life, again, from a happiness scientist is bet on yourself. And move in the direction toward the life that you really want. Because happiness is something that is attainable for everyone. But if you just allow fear to control you, and it's like in life, people just let life, they're just floating in the river of life and they just let life take them down because this is just the situation they're in. We have agency. We have an ability to decide the life that we want. It will be scary and a little uncomfortable to get there, but that is what I want for everyone. So hopefully that helps.

That helps amazing. Like, so if people wanted to follow and know more about you, where, where, where can they do that?

Yeah. So I am probably most active on LinkedIn because I work in the corporate environment. So people can follow me. It's just Jill Schulman on LinkedIn. Um, I also have a website where if anyone wants to learn more about bravery, I've got a free bravery assessment. They go on my website, jillschulman.com. So J-I-L-L-S-C-H-U-L-M-A-N.com. Take the free bravery assessment. And then you can download a free bravery blueprint, which gives you all these evidence-based actions you can take based on mindset, which is cognitive psychology, behavioral psychology, and social psychology. So you can apply it right away. And of course, if you want to check out my book called The Bravery Effect, you know, you can buy that anywhere books are sold. Yeah. But if you type in Jill Scholman bravery, you can follow me on any social media platform you'd like. I'm trying to be better. on some of these other ones that I'm like TikTok and YouTube.

TikTok.

It's impossible to keep up with all these.

Absolutely impossible. Hire your 18 and 20-year-old to do that for you. Create a little family payroll there. They could do your TikToks for you.

Exactly. You know what? I've done that. I'm not the smartest when it comes to financial planning. I need friends like you or people that are smart there, but my girls have been working for me and I'm proud that they have a pretty darn good retirement That's amazing.

The start of a retirement. They're not ready to retire yet.

Yeah, no, he's a very small start, but you know what? The seeds of their tree, their sapling is pretty strong right now to keep growing.

Thanks for joining us on the Ideas by Mike podcast today. I really appreciate it.

Thanks, Mike.

Again, we want to thank Jill Schulman for being on the Ideas by Mike podcast. That was an amazing conversation about being brave. And she gave you her information on where you can connect with her on LinkedIn, where you can buy her book. But, um, I just want to talk about what bravery means to that pre-retiree or somebody working toward that, uh, that end-of-life financial goal. Because, uh, at the Ideas by Mike podcast, we, we bring this to you to try to help you live a one-of-a-kind life. And bravery is a big part of moving from one-size-fits-all models into the one-of-a-kind financial plan so that you can live a one-of-a-kind life. Resources found outside of the traditional approach help you break free from retirement déjà vu and the one-size-fits-all. So I encourage you to spend some time looking at Jill's information. Look beyond the typical world of financial advice to find your peace income when it comes to building your one-of-a-kind life. Thanks again for joining us today. If you want to connect with us, go to oneoakfinancial.com. That's the number one oak financial.com. As a reminder, I am an investment advisor. Advisory rep with Advisory Alpha LLC. Advisory Alpha LLC is a registered investment advisory firm based in Holland, Michigan. Ideas by Mike, doing business as One Oak Financial, is an educational coaching and financial services business that is unaffiliated to Advisory Alpha LLC. Our relationship is for with Advisory Alpha is for investment management services to you, our clients. Today's Uh, content has been for educational purposes only. Do not use this to make any investment recommendations. Consult a licensed financial professional before making any of those. Until then, this has been Mike Milligan with Ideas by Mike. Thank you for logging in and listening or watching to another episode of Ideas by Mike. If you enjoyed this podcast, you could help me by liking it, subscribing to our channel, and telling others about what we're doing. See, guys, we're looking to change the game, and that game is about making financial planning more about you. Until next time, this has been Mike. CFP Board owns the marks CFP®, Certified Financial Planner, and CFP® in the United States. As a reminder, Mike Milligan, Certified Financial Planner, is an investment advisor representative of Advisory Alpha LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisory firm. All opinions expressed by me or our guests are solely our own opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Advisory Alpha. This recording is for informational purposes only. It should not be relied on for investment, tax, or legal decisions, and it's in no way intended to communicate or guarantee specific performance or suitability of any instrument or product as we may have discussed. Investment advisory and financial planning services offered through Advisory Alpha LLC, a registered investment advisor. Insurance is offered through Ideas by Mike, a Virginia-based LLC here to serve you in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Ideas by Mike is a separate and unaffiliated entity of Advisory Alpha LLC. While tax and legal issues may be discussed in the general course of financial and investment planning, Advisory Alpha does not provide tax or legal services. Please consult with your tax or legal professional prior to making a decision relative to those decisions. Any and all statements of purported or observed general practices of non-affiliated firms and advisors or conditions of the broad financial services industry are solely the opinions of Mike and are not intended to be offered as factual. The validity of these statements has not been verified and as such, No representation of their validity are made. An annuity is a long-term financial product designed largely for asset accumulation and retirement needs. All guarantees are backed by the claims-paying ability of the issuing insurance company. This podcast is produced in conjunction with Mike Milligan, LLC. Thank you again for joining us today. We'll see you on the next podcast.