Ops Cast After Dark: Reflecting on the year, mentorship, and more! w/ Naomi Liu, Michael Hartmann & Mike Rizzo

Hi, I'm Michael Hartman.

I'm Naomi Liu.

And I'm Mike Rizzo. And this is OpsCast, a podcast for marketing ops pros and rev ops pros created by the MoPros, the number one community for marketing operations professionals.

Tune in to each episode as we chat with real professionals to help elevate you in your marketing operations career.

Hello everyone, welcome to another special episode of OpsCast brought to you by the MoPros. We're gonna call this kind of the first of what we think might be a series of ops, you know, Mops After Dark. So if you're listening to this and it's an appropriate time, feel free to open up an adult beverage or a non-adult beverage. Yeah, we've all got something here. And I am joined. It's just, it's the 3 amigos tonight. Naomi and Mike, we're here. Say hello.

Hello. Hey, very delicious glass of red in my hand.

I really wish I could like cheers or something virtually.

We need the sound effects, right?

I was just like, I turned on the sound effects and I was looking for it, but there's nothing.

I mean, it's when you need it, it's not there. It's like—

It's not there, right? Well, good. Yeah. So, yeah, we were, we were talking about doing something like this for a while and it seemed like an appropriate time given that, you know, how much has gone on in the last year. Like, I mean, you were just kind of starting to outline some of the things that have happened over the course of the last year. I mean, this is, you know, the podcast is one of them, but, you know, what do you kind of— what's your thought about what has happened and transpired over the last year?

You know, it's been an incredible, like, year in general. For those that are listening to this episode, you know, I think we're, what, like 35 episodes or so into the podcast.

35.

Which is just, which is just wild. Um, we all kind of had this idea of like, well, wouldn't it be fun to just talk shop about marketing ops all the time and pull in these incredible guests? And we've been fortunate to do that. And exactly a year ago, uh, in November was when Naomi and, uh, Johnny, who was one of our original like founding admins of, of the MoPros community, They were interviewing me because we were turning on a brand-new set of programs. I mean, everything. Everything from ambassadors to chairpersons to a new forum to a paid membership model, which we're still working on trying to figure out the right programs for all of you to decide that that's worthwhile for your investment. But all of it, all of it was launched literally a year ago. And we went from, I think at the time, and I wish I had the numbers pulled up, maybe while we're on I can go look them up, but We were under 1,000, I think, members, and now we're well over 2,200. I think we're at 2,500 if I remember right. So it's been a tremendous year of growth all the way across the board. And when I reflected on that, I think yesterday morning, I sort of fell over and realized, oh my gosh, it's only been a year.

If only all reports and analytics could look like that.

Right.

Up, up, up, up, up and to the right. Yeah, everybody wants that.

Yeah, so I think just it's an appropriate time to reflect. You're coming into the holidays, end of year. People are often thinking about budgeting and planning for the new year. But for us, at least in the US in November, for those of us that celebrate the holiday to give thanks to others, I think It's an appropriate time to be thinking about all the people that we're thankful for, inclusive of our guests, Michael who runs our podcast, all the chairpersons, Naomi who's been involved and a big advocate, and everybody who just keeps contributing to making this place a special community to learn and connect from each other. I think it's an appropriate time to be reflecting on those things and thinking about kind of what's coming next. So we will open up This, I think in the next couple of days, I'll open up applications for the chairperson program again. So we'll get a new, a new, you know, group who are going to lead each one of the marketing automation platforms and represent those for 12 months. And so I think, you know, being thankful and reminiscent about where we've come and where we're going is definitely the right tone for maybe the very first OpsCast After Dark episode. But I just, I definitely need to have My own drink next time.

I think that deserves a cheers, though.

It does deserve a cheers.

Cheers. You can cheers with your kombucha.

Yeah, I got the kombucha.

So that's the California version of a bougie drink, I think.

So bougie. It's so bougie.

I'm in Texas. I'm just having a Texas beer.

So there you go.

There you go. And a big one at that.

But yeah, I think, you know, Things that are coming down the pipe, there's a lot of really exciting stuff that people don't know is coming, and I'm chomping at the bit to tell folks, but I can't spill the beans yet. But on the topic of this idea of new leaders coming in and thinking about the importance of leadership and mentorship, I think that was something that we definitely wanted to get into this evening. And so, for those who are listening out there, if you're interested in kind of stepping up as a mentor or you've had a really strong mentor, we want to learn from you and we would love your involvement. But I'd love to open up the floor around this idea of really what mentorship's all about and hear from you both. Yeah.

I think the topic of mentorship is a bit timely because I was just thinking the other day that Around 2 years ago today, maybe just a little bit more than that, there was like a really, a woman that I admire a lot in the, just the marketing space. She reached out to me and said that she knew of a really bright potential marketing ops star. And she was kind of a bit lost because she didn't really know if it was a career that she really wanted to be in still, or if it's something that like, if she, it was a proper career path and what did that look like and if I would mind meeting with her. So I met up with her and I think she listens to this podcast. So I'm, I'm not gonna call her out by name, but, um, I met up with her at the, at the coffee shop at Whole Foods and we spent maybe an hour or two just kind of like talking through career pathing and marketing and what marketing ops is and, and how I got my career path and got my start. And you know how you can really make it to be— marketing ops is one of those things where, you know, if there's something within it that you're interested in, you can really kind of hone in on that and fine-tune it to what you want it to be. Right? And, um, fast forward a year later, she now works for me.

Cool.

So I had a role on my team and, you know, I had kind of just like, I was in the process of like, uh, recruiting with our internal recruiters and hiring. And then all of a sudden our internal recruiter was like, hey, um, got this applicant. And she said that she knows you and that she had met with you about a year ago. And do you wanna speak to her? And I'm like, oh my gosh, yes, of course. And it's just quite serendipitous when we're talking about the, you know, the mentorship thing because while, she may probably view me as a, as a mentor when it comes to marketing operations and like career pathing and things like that. There's also things that I think that new hires and, and people who are new to the, to the space and industry can also teach me. And so I've learned a lot from her as well, right? A lot of that is patience, you know, you know, seeing it with bright new eyes and things like that. But—

Patience and perseverance. Yeah.

Patience and perseverance. Yes, that's right. So yeah, no, I think the topic of mentorship, I think it kind of goes both ways. You can, It's not always just like a one-directional thing, right? You can always learn from the people that you're potentially mentoring as well. And I think that's like super important to keep in mind as well.

I totally agree. And part of what we started talking about, it's kind of the last year, one of the things I've been sort of reflecting on is just how amazing this community is at being willing to share and help and guide others just on a general level. And it's, you know, it's crazy to me. I'm, you know, I think about like, what would it have been like for my career if I'd had that 10, 15, 20 years ago? Maybe I think it would have been a huge, huge help to have had that. And that didn't exist. So I'm really excited that it's there now and that we can be a part of that and help people. Like you, Naomi, I haven't gone through quite the scenario you did where you kind of were mentoring somebody that you then ended up Hiring, I actually had the opposite at one point where I had somebody who I was— I had reached out to and built a relationship as a mentor and ended up going to work for the company, not for him, but for someone just under his organization. And actually, it was weird because it ended up sort of making that whole mentorship relationship strange. But I think—

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, but I do think— I think I still got a lot out of it as the mentee, but I'm currently sort of formally mentoring at least 2 people, and plus people that work for me, which is a big part of what I like about leading is seeing people succeed and growing. And I get, like you, Naomi, like I think I get just about as much out of that as they get out of it, maybe sometimes more. And then I've got mentors of my own too, and it's something that I've actively, you know, over the course of the years, I've actively pursued. During the last year, I actually actively pursued sort of building a, I guess, an advisory board, like a personal advisory board that, you know, sort of a mix of people. So it's been really interesting. I think it's humbling to kind of get perspectives, and I intentionally included people that were both sort of ahead of me and behind me or older than me and younger than me or in different fields. And so it's— I encourage people to do it. I think there's a lot that you can get from both of those. But you're right, patience is a good one. It's a good term to get out of that, Amy.

Yeah, no, definitely.

That's awesome. I sort of like feel like I fall— I like now I know why we met, Michael. 'Cause you were like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna target this guy who's like this random dude trying to do this random thing. And like, I'm gonna try to teach him something and maybe he'll teach me something. Yeah. Is that what happened? No, I'm just kidding. Um, sorry. I just like cleared my throat in everybody's ear. So for all you listeners, sorry about that.

It's all that kombucha you're drinking.

Offcast After Dark. We clear our throats on air.

See, I'm just worried because I'm drinking beer that I'm gonna have to— I may miss muting in time for yourself.

Yeah, right.

I think you should just like be au naturel, right? Like it's just— we'll just go for it. You be you. Yeah, exactly.

Is that your advice, Naomi? That's your mentoring advice for me?

Be au naturel.

You be you, Hartman.

I'm gonna be me.

For all the listeners who listened to the last like episode before this one, the audio branding, that's our new audio brand. The all-natural approach. So that's so funny. There was something you were just talking about and I wanted to— oh man, I wanted to drill into it a little bit further.

Oh, see, that's my strategy. I ramble on for a while and then so you forget what you were going to ask me in the middle of it.

Yeah, I feel like I was like, It was— oh man, darn it.

No pressure.

We're just gonna—

we're gonna talk about something else and then, and then you'll remember it.

What was it about the— how I had a mentor who then I ended up working at the same company and it changed the relationship? That one or something else?

It was, it was definitely something else, although that is really interesting.

Yeah.

Uh, to unpack. So maybe we can unpack it a little bit, like what made that a little bit interesting. I think that was the word you used, was it made it interesting.

Yeah, well, I think part of it is how it came out, right? We were just having one of our regular get-togethers. I think we met once a month or so, and back then it was local, and so we were meeting for breakfast and coffee, and we were talking, and I was kind of ready for a transition in work. And so we were talking about that, and he's like, you know, there's somebody in my organization who could use somebody like that, and they're looking for somebody. And so he put, you know, he put me in touch with people. And then I think he also took a step back, right? So like, it was part of it, I think, was his— the way he handled it was he took a step back as opposed to leaning in.

Mm-hmm.

And I— it was a really large company, so I kind of understand it, right? He didn't want to, um— I think he was trying not to influence somebody else's You know, hiring decision just simply based on this relationship that he and I had. And I hadn't worked with him, so I mean, that— it was just a— it was a, um, long story short, I— one of my, uh, uncles had worked— had worked with him. They were kind of at competitor companies and got to know each other, and that was kind of the way I had met him. So I think that was what made— part of what made it different. And then once I got there, I did try to kind of continue that, and it just sort of petered out, right? Truth be told. And part of that was on me, and I think part of that was on just him and where he was. He actually ended up having some health issues. And so I don't have any ill will about it. Just, I think sometimes these things do run, you know, kind of they run their course and it's time to move on to another one. And I also think that's okay.

Yeah, I agree. I think it's definitely okay for, for these things to come to an end. Um, I think that's the hardest part for us as a community in general. When you're thinking about like, how do you actually run a mentorship program, um, for a formalized mentorship program of any kind is like, what does that look like? It's different for everybody, you know, and how long should that relationship last? And, you know, I certainly can't I can't matchmake. I can't say like, oh, like Michael has these skills and Naomi has these, and therefore you two should hang out. Um, and so we, we do that, you know, we do the best we can to create the opportunity for connection. But I think, you know, the, one of the takeaways I had from, from both your stories about mentorship and, you know, the mentor-mentee relationship is that, um, There's Michael and I think Naomi, the person that you were referring to. You took initiative, right? You took the initiative to try to figure out who you should be connected to, or that other individual took the initiative to do that, and that's an important step. And I think a lot of that is missing, especially early in your career. The entrepreneurial-minded folks that I've met that are young, early-career employees, have done a great job of that. I've seen some people do a really great job of that, but I personally didn't do a very good job of that. I didn't understand that it was a benefit to go reach out to people and ask for help or advice or just how to, how to do something or learn or what have you. And it wasn't until I was a little further into my career where I realized that I really I needed, I needed more of that. Um, which is why, you know, I guess the community started, right? But like the funny, like maybe it's the, maybe it's the, uh, what do you call it? The stereotypical millennial in me. Maybe I fell into that category for a little while and I think I did. Um, I'll fall on my sword on that one a little bit and, and realize that I just didn't seek it. But like for the, for the audience listening, I think like. Yeah, it's— you got to take the initiative to ask for the help. And you might have a mentor in your life you don't even realize is actually your mentor. I certainly have a handful of those. I tend to just think of them as friends now. You know, 2 of them are on this show with me. But every day, right, like we have opportunities to connect with each other and pick each other's brains about, you know, I might say, hey, Naomi, like there's this new program or this new opportunity I was thinking about taking on. What do you think? And she's like, does that Does that really serve the needs of whoever? Or what's your goal, right?

Yeah.

And so I think it's important to just be taking the initiative and then look within your circles, like who actually— who's already sort of fulfilling that role as a mentor? And then you don't have to put a title on it, but you can formalize it a little bit more and be intentional about spending time with that person, even if it's virtual. Right? And so I think that was the takeaway that I had from both your stories was like the initiative to go find somebody to hang out with and learn from.

And I think it's also important to surround yourself with people that have different viewpoints than you because otherwise you kind of catch yourself in this weird echo chamber, which unfortunately happened with a lot of other larger topics that are happening in the world at the moment.

Yes.

That is, which shall not be named.

That is very true. That is very true.

We're not that kind of podcast.

No. We, yeah, no, we don't, we don't, we push the limits on, uh, the, the boundaries of sales and marketing relationships.

We're just gonna glide right over that. You know, it's like we're just gonna skim, we're gonna like skip that rock over that body of water.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Groupthink is a, a dangerous thing. Diversity of thought. is important. I actually talked about that at the summer camp events, right? I gave a little hat tip to the importance of that and the lesson that I learned from M.H. Lyons, who's the CEO of Stack Moxie. She was constantly advocating for diversity of thought in her organization, and I was like, gosh, what a tremendous way to think about the world. And so, absolutely, I totally agree with that, Naomi.

Mm-hmm. Well, I think one of the things that tells you, right, is I think being willing to realize that you can use and learn from other people and be coached, I guess, is a better term maybe, is I think a lot of people perceive it as a weakness. And I actually think of it as a strength, right? I think recognizing that, you know, you may have blind spots or you may have areas that are not your strongest. And being willing to accept that and to surround yourself with people who can help you either, yeah, if it's building a team, right? Fill it, you know, fill, bringing in the strongest people you can to fill those gaps where you're not as strong. Or if it's getting, you know, coaches, mentors, whatever, that can help you minimize the downside of that, right? So I think that's, I do think there's this perception that if I go and ask somebody for help, it's a sign of weakness. And I think it's, I think you should absolutely— like, to me, I would rather say I don't know and look for help than to be sort of cocksure and act like I know it all when I don't, because eventually that comes back and bites you.

Yeah. Yeah, without a doubt. I think, you know, shameless plug a little bit for this. Like, what this all kind of makes me think about is some of the recordings that we're getting from the upcoming career fair that we're going to do. And, uh, I brought in some, some guests and one of them was a career coach. Um, someone who kind of helps you find the next role that's right for you and market yourself appropriately. Um, Jess Cow and Max Marrier talk a little bit about climbing the corporate ladder. Um, and Jeff Covney today and I, we connected. He's a CMO at Digital Pie and we recorded a session on, you know, whether or not it's the right move for you to go into, um, a consulting role. And each one of those sessions that we've done actually touch on this idea of like, you know, mentorship, career growth, and surrounding yourself with the right people in their own way. And, and I think, you know, for, for those that are interested in just hearing from them, you know, come to that event. It's obviously free for the entire community to come check that stuff out. But like, I think the message reigns true that the community at large, you know, Michael, you kind of said it earlier, like everybody in this space, whether they're in the actual Mopros community or they're just a part of the broader community that like, you know, they are a marketing or RevOps professional out there. I think there's this like underlying, I get the sense that there's this like underlying desire to help, right? It almost like feels like it's ingrained into the persona of that role. Um, problem solvers seem to be folks that want to help. Um, and, and so I think just, just, you know, connect with folks in and around the community and who have roles similar to yourself, but also don't be afraid, you know, to step outside of that and connect with people who do something totally different from you, uh, and try to learn from them.

Speaking of like being out of your comfort zone, I recently— I don't know if I told the two of you, but I recently got appointed as a board member to a medical— I remember this. That's right.

Yes, yes, you did tell us.

Yeah, to an organization called TREC, which stands for Translating Emergency Knowledge for Kids. And let me tell you, the amount of imposter syndrome that I have sitting in a Zoom call or in a meeting with folks who are like, you know, top pediatrician of the year for Canada, research chair for so-and-so council, head of pediatrics, and I'm sitting here like, I have no idea what they're talking about. The acronyms, I'm like furiously trying to Google them while looking at the camera on my phone, no idea what they're saying. Totally out of my element, complete, like so uncomfortable, but I kind of love it too because I'm learning so much. And if I can provide, and you know, there's a reason why they wanted someone from outside of industry because like they had said as well during this, you know, vetting process, it's, they, it was like an echo chamber. They're all just carbon copy clones of themselves, right? And they wanted somebody who was—

Yeah.

you know, going to help give them some guidance around comms and marketing and technology and getting their name and brand out there. Um, and for sponsorship and fundraising opportunities and things like that. And, you know, I threw my hat in the ring. I was just, did not expect anything. And I ended up getting appointed to the board and I'm like, oh my gosh, what did I just do? Holy crap. You know, like, oh, you know, and it just, it was terrifying, but it's also been a ton of fun. And, you know, I'll be the first to say, I'm sorry, can you guys repeat that? Or can you please spell out what that means? Because I have no idea what, you know, FCRPML, whatever it is. Like, I don't know what that means. You guys have to say it, right? So, um, it's just, yeah. What do you mean you don't know what that means?

I'm just kidding.

No, I have no idea what these acronyms mean, you know? And so, um, yeah, it's just, it's, I just like, it's just kind of when you had said that about being outside of your comfort zone, like I can, that is, for sure outside of my comfort zone, but it's been just a blast to kind of, you know, put myself out there and like learn a lot and just like kind of have, you know, takeaways for like, how can I apply some of the ways that they're going about problem solving different things to, you know, my day-to-day?

How did you, how did you find out about that opportunity?

Oh, my— so a good friend of mine, um, he actually like, I, I guess he got it on an email or something like that and was like, hey, you should apply for this. And I was like, What? Really? You know, but then I read through the description and I'm like, it's actually pretty much what I like. I can offer them guidance on this and if they're actually looking for somebody. So, you know, I sent them my LinkedIn, sent them my resume, and, you know, it's a, it's a nonprofit organization. You know, it's all volunteer-based people, right?

Sure.

And we offer our time and expertise. And, you know, I was, I just, it was something that was super fascinating to me and, and it, you know, I didn't think it would actually lead anywhere, but then all of a sudden now I'm on a board of directors where my bio, my headshot is next to people who have like, A dozen letters after their name.

I love it.

Yeah. I'm just— I'm curious. I'm curious. So I get the imposter syndrome. That totally makes sense, right? Especially there. But do you have— so kind of bring it back to mentorship a little bit. Do you have some people that are beyond the board that are kind of helping guide you through this process and how to handle that? Yeah.

So there were, there's 2 women that I really highly admire. Um, just, and, you know, one of them is in the marketing space and the other one, um, is not, but they both have tons of board experience. And before I even applied, I had kind of run it by them. Like, what's the time commitment look like? Like, what am I completely insane for doing this? Like, what does this look like? And they're like, no, it's great. You should definitely get some board experience. And both of them followed up along the way and were like big advocates of it and helped to prep me for, um, the interview and then like what's to be expected essentially. And so they were just like great to kind of bounce ideas off of. And then when I got appointed, they were like, yes, that's great. You know, you're single-handedly introducing gender diversity and person of color into this board. So yeah, they were definitely huge advocates for it. But yeah, so.

That's awesome.

That's amazing.

Honestly, I personally feel Like imposter syndrome. Like, I don't know, on a pretty regular basis when I'm in this community, like anytime we get into, you know, panel discussions or, or whatever, I'm like, at this point, like, I, I actually don't know hardly anything compared to like these people that we're pulling in nowadays.

Yeah.

So I feel you on that one.

Like, well, I mean, like sitting in some of these meetings, I'm just like, We're speaking the same language. I know you're speaking English, but I do not understand what you're saying. And I feel like it's just— I need—

it's—

we've only had like 2 meetings so far. I just need a bit more time and exposure. So.

Yeah, yeah, it's all right. Did you try throwing out all the acronyms like, yeah, well, when you get an MQL and then it turns into an SQL, and then they started— their eyes started maybe getting bigger?

Maybe they can use ABM. Maybe it can use ABM for their fundraising.

I haven't tried that yet, but I think maybe for the next one I will. For the AGM, yeah.

I'll do that. Yeah, see? Next time. You know what? You should just skip it. You shouldn't even like, you should, you should just go in and say, you know what? Um, I'd like to volunteer myself to run a presentation about the acronyms that we use so that I can avoid you feeling confused the next time I start talking about marketing stuff. So I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna run you through them.

Yeah. Let me she-splain this.

Let me she-splain. Wow. I mean, it can be educational. It doesn't have to be.

Yeah, I know. I'm just kidding.

That's fantastic.

Like halfway through this bottle too.

So. Oh, I'm so jealous. It's going to happen.

It keeps coming back to the adult beverage, doesn't it?

Well, OpsCast After Dark, folks. Welcome to the first of many hopeful— hopefully. So my big qualm with all this This is totally random and off-topic. You have qualms? Yeah, I have a qualm.

What is a qualm anyway? Does anyone know?

I don't know.

I'm gonna Google qualm.

Like an irritant or something? Qualm.

It seems like a made-up word.

Yeah. Qualm. It's an uneasy feeling of doubt, worry, or fear, especially about one's own conduct. A misgiving. Okay. So, yeah, apparently. All right, that's interesting.

So what's your qualm, Mike?

So my qualm— maybe I used the wrong word. That's interesting, isn't it? About podcasting is that like, we're doing all this fun stuff here. We are doing OpsCast After Dark. Why don't podcasts, you know, providers allow us to create different tracks within one podcast subscription, right? Like, like, I don't want to have to label this episode OpsCast After Dark and let someone decide if they want to listen to those episodes or not. I would just rather you be able to like look at our You know, it's like going to a website and then there's many pages on a website, right?

Come on.

Like, what's going on here? So shout out to all the podcast producers or providers out there. Let's find a way to make that technology a little bit better.

Yeah, no kidding. Well, you know, you, you, you know, right? When we did all the kind of research on the platforms, how, how disjointed the whole sort of support ecosystem is for this stuff, right?

Yeah. Yeah. This has been a tremendous learning curve. Anybody wants mentorship? around podcasting, Michael and I can share some things.

I've already had a conversation with somebody, so who was wanting to start a podcast. Yeah, I got connected from through a different community. You know which one it is, Mike.

Oh yeah.

And, uh, I kind of talked through it, right? Lessons learned. What would we have done maybe a little differently? Um, so it was, yeah, it was, yeah, I mean, it's, it's been a tremendous learning experience.

Yeah, it definitely has. It's been a long time.

I was looking back at our chat history, and it was November 1st where I was like, hey, why don't we do a segment called Obscast After Dark? And Michael, you had said, can we have cocktails during these episodes?

And you were just assuming that was part of it, right? I had to ask specifically.

Yeah.

Yeah, I assumed by default the title, implied title, meant like there will be adult beverages.

Yeah. Well, I hate to make assumptions. I hate to make assumptions.

Snacks, right?

We need snacks. I mean, it could be.

Yeah, because we know it could be like an ASMR episode.

I don't know where we're just like crunching into the click the microphone repeatedly.

So I Michael just learned about ASMR.

I didn't know what ASMR was. Well, I think I'd heard.

You didn't know what ASMR was.

So I heard about it. I think we've talked about it.

What is that acronym? We're back on acronyms.

But it no, it didn't just did. It's just. Didn't stick, you know? So my old brain only takes so many things at one time.

Autonomous sensory meridian response is what it stands for.

Listen to the person working for some medical, you know, board. Yeah.

The person who's on an advisory board for a medical group right now. I, I, that stuff, I like ASMR. I think it, for whatever reason, it tickles my brain in a funny way. So I, I think it's fascinating and all that stuff, but that's so funny. This has been fun. I, you know, so mentorship, community connectedness, initiative. We talked about initiative. So take the initiative to go figure out how to be more involved. Uh, you know, it may be in your own org, on your own team, learning from other teams. Um, heck, our community, you can come be involved in the community if you want. Yeah.

Hey, if you think you're the bee's knees who knows something about HubSpot or Marketo or Eloqua or Pardot— did I leave any of them out? I think I got them all.

I think— oh well, there's that thing that they call Salesforce Marketing Cloud. We're still trying to figure out what that is.

ActiveCampaign.

Yeah.

But yeah, so what did you say? There's going to be some openings for people to kind of be the community leaders for that.

So Yeah, yeah. For those—

Go outside your comfort zone.

Yeah, go outside your comfort zone. I have the, I have the program infos pulled up right here in front of me, actually, because I was working on the form today. All right. Yeah, the, the, so for anybody who's not aware of ways that you can get involved in the community, the Chairperson Program is one of them. And basically the gist of it in summary and what, 5 bullets here is there's one marketing ops professional per marketing automation platform. And you own that role for 12 months. And, and so you have direct input on how this community, the MoPros community, can better serve the members of the group that you represent. So if you sign up to represent Marketo, ideally, you know, you have kind of direct input on how we can better serve that audience. Ideally, you're driving conversations, you know, as often as you can. You're a volunteer, right? So, you know, help drive interesting conversations about the platform that you represent. Um, and then maybe help us source additional folks that can teach all of your kind of constituents of that platform expertise new things. Uh, and then the last thing is that we would love for you to share your expertise about the platform that you represent, um, you know, on our blog, ideally like once a month. Um, those are kind of the, the basics of how that program works. And there's a whole bunch of perks that come with it, but we definitely look for folks that are community-minded. They demonstrate thought leadership and expertise. They have diversity of thought. It's actually included in our list of things that we're looking for. They enjoy building relationships, so that should hopefully come naturally to you. And it's kind of obvious, but you're organized.

I don't think I've ever found a disorganized MoPro.

I don't think so either, to be honest.

You haven't seen, you haven't seen my office then?

No, but it's like organized chaos. It's very different.

Yeah, it's true.

No, that my piles are organized.

Yeah. Like, you know where something is, but if someone moves it, you know, then you're like, oh no.

If I like, you know, good thing we should have done. I think, you know what, that'll be the differentiation for OpsCast After Dark. We have to record video. Uh, and then we'll also publish video cuz then people can actually see us enjoying our adult beverage. But, um, yeah, so like for those that are, that are, can't see my camera, I'm gonna show Naomi and Mike like my office. There's this giant like comforter just sitting in an office chair.

But is it a comforter or is it a Snuggie with, with like arms, you know, that you like wrap yourself in like a warm hug?

It's definitely a comforter though. I feel like I should go get me some Snuggies from the '90s again. Those are great.

I, I kind of want a Snuggie for the 2 weeks in Texas where I need it.

I don't think you can say it's from the '90s.

It was like, what, 10 years ago?

You can't say it's from the '90s.

Well, we're supposed to get down to— we're supposed to get down almost freezing, I think, tomorrow night.

So we'll see. Oh, boy.

I need like— instead of a Snuggie, I need like a life raft. Like Vancouver is currently cut off from the rest of Canada because of the atmospheric rain that we've been having. So every single highway leading out of the Greater Vancouver area Is either flooded, broken, or just gone. You can't actually drive. Like I put into Waze directions to Calgary just to see what would happen and it said, error, could not find a route.

Oh wow.

Yeah, I heard about this earlier today. There's like a, the only way to get into like Canada and Vancouver right now is from the US basically. And like you have to kind of like go out and around or something. It's crazy.

Yeah, it's really, it's really actually quite Quite devastating for— and the people are trapped, like, you know, on the highways and stuff. Yeah, it's crazy.

So that's not good.

Wait, not to end this on a negative—

Our hearts and thoughts go out to all them. Yeah, definitely. Well, while they're like not able to get to somewhere else, they can listen to this episode and know that we feel for them.

There you go.

Yes, that we're thinking about them. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

We'll have to get this one published quickly then.

Yeah, exactly.

All right.

Well, this is fun.

I can't like, yeah, we'll have to do another one about like, uh, the future, the next year, the year ahead, or the couple years ahead, Mike. So be prepared next time. Not like this one. Yeah. Don't just show up.

Yeah, I'll try to be prepared next time. I wanna like, I, I don't, I wish there was like a, a super stellar way for me to like share all the fun stuff that I wanna like build for this community, but I think it's just gonna come out at little crumbles, little drips at a time.

Maybe we need to do a livestream.

Yeah, we could do that. We can pop up.

Anybody know how to do that? Because I don't.

Uh, you know, we have a community full of experts, so we could figure it out.

We could figure it out.

Yeah. And then we could mentor somebody on how to do it.

There you go. Oh, any, any last thoughts before we wrap it up?

Nah.

No. Nah.

No.

Said it all.

We said it all. Someone else who's out there in the community who wants to just come on Opscast After Dark, uh, Slack us. Let's do it.

Yeah.

Just come hang out. Let's just do Opscast After Dark episodes where we're just hanging out.

But whoever comes to join has to bring the topic and has to like tell us what they want to talk about. How about that?

Yeah.

Okay.

That seems like a fair trade.

Actually, you know what? We can put this out into the world too. Like if you're, maybe Opscast After Dark is, is the place where like we get a little dicey. Like we actually just bring on people who are like in IT and like sales and other groups, and we just learn from each other and like we challenge the status quo and then we build new relationships.

Or finance. You know, those finance people are crazy.

Finance. I like that. DevOps.

Data scientists, party animals.

I'm in. I'm totally in.

Naomi, what do you think?

I think that sounds like a great, great idea.

Well, it was your idea, so you have to sign off on it.

Well, yeah, obviously. That's why, like, yeah. Come on. I'm trying to be humble here, Rizzo.

Yeah, well, for those of you that don't realize, like, Naomi actually is the leader of all of the madness. Like, every time someone refers to her, like, she is the founder of the community, and I love that she is the founder of the community. Like, it's my favorite thing ever. Every time that ever happens, I'm like, yes. Yes, please. It is so not about me. It is so about everybody else. That's my favorite part.

Oh my God. I always have to correct them and then I send them your LinkedIn and they're like, did they just kind of ignore it? And they're like, anyways.

Oh, I'm sorry. No, I'm curious about that. It's a, it's a white guy with a beard who looks like, you know, like, come on, come on.

No. If we ever need to fundraise, we can start like a thing and you just shave like different parts of your beard, you know, and like different And you have handlebars, then a mustache, then chinstrap.

I can't do that with me because I have tried many times to grow a beard. It just doesn't work for me.

It doesn't work. Mine never goes away. If I'm gonna fundraise though, what's the thing that I have to do? I have to wear a vest, right? There's a vest that everybody wears. It's like a Patagonia. But I don't think we're gonna have to do that.

No, I don't think so.

Oh my God, this is gonna take forever. I just kind of like the idea of it though, you know?

Yeah, yeah. There's a Twitter feed out there about like things investors say or something like that. If you, if you wanna have a good laugh, it's worth it. It steps you a little deep into the startup world.

Is it better? Is it better than the F Jerry Instagram one?

Ooh, that's a good one.

Uh, beige cardigan is a good one too. Have you, have you seen that one?

Mm-mm. I don't know that one.

Silence.

None. You're looking. I know nothing. I know not of what you speak. Is that a new acronym?

I'm confused. No.

All right.

All right.

I think we— I think— I think we should end there, right?

Yeah, I feel like it.

All right. Thanks, y'all. And thanks to all you listening and putting up with our nonsense tonight. Hopefully, uh, some of you will reach out and want to be a part of the next, uh, OpsCast After Dark. As Naomi said, bring your ideas, uh, for topics though, if you want to do it. Maybe we could even—

Don't come to the dinner. Mm-hmm. Don't come to the dinner party without an appetizer.

You know, you gotta— It's like potluck, right?

Yeah, exactly. Except you're the, the guest is the only one providing the food. So.

Right.

There we go. It's that kind of potluck.

Yeah, exactly.

All right. Awesome. Well, thanks everyone again. As always, thanks for listening. Uh, and, uh, remember to subscribe, you know, uh, send us your feedback, rate us, all that kind of stuff. Bye, everyone.

Bye.

See ya.