Check your PRIVILEGE - Episode 078

Welcome back. Another episode. See soon Unfiltered with Mike Andes. How are we doing today?

Fantastic.

That's fantastic. I love hearing that. So we're going to jump right in here. I have a clip. So I've been showing you a lot of clips. I don't know if you like it. I don't know if everyone watching, listening likes it, but I like it because it's a great way to kind of generate some creative thinking out of the box ideas and get your take on other people's takes. So we are going to be referencing Caleb Hammer, who does financial audits. Great YouTube channel. Some of them are honestly painful to watch. But people apply to go on a show, to go through all their financial records and he just rips them to shreds or helps them to invest better, to spend more smartly, to budget better. Well, this is a clip I recently saw and I thought, you know what, this will be great to talk about on the pod. Capitalism is bad.

I don't like it.

Yeah, really easy for someone to say that. Grew up in a really nice house in one of the best school districts in Texas, but who has the rent paid for that is able to go to Europe and on a whim with their sister, who's able to do girl math, who's able to be fun employed. Yeah, it's easy to say that the system's bad when you're doing that because you've never had to work for it. You never got to actually see what happens when you put in the work and get benefits and actually have a little bit of responsibility and actually build something or do anything. You've grew up in privilege beyond privilege. Beyond privilege. Beyond privilege. It's only the people who speak like you that grew up in a world where you've never had to do in.

A single thing in your life.

So I don't want to hear about that. What a joke.

I'm sorry.

I just wish everybody had like, I.

Wish a lot of things. Wishing doesn't get people places.

You try to create the best systems possible. This is matter. Oh, my.

So language warning. If anybody is listening with their kids in the room, it's all, it's all bleeped out. But that's much more colorful language than we. You typically use on the pod. But Kayla Hammer, he, he goes all in on this girl and there's obviously a key word in there and the theme of it is that he is attacking what he would call her privilege. So what are your initial reactions to that clip? Obviously, it's all Taken out of context, but he goes in pretty heavy.

Well, if I had to steel man it, I. I'd say like, look, regardless of what she said, he can attack her. Because if he would, if she would have said the system is great, you could also say the exact same thing.

Yes.

So in this case, it's kind of weird that she said it doesn't work. Well, yeah, it is kind of weird. And that's the typical, like, privileged thing to do. But you could also say she's privileged if she's like, capitalism was awesome. And then you'd be like, yeah, it's easy for you to say yes. So I don't know. I think she's a lose, lose situation. I feel bad for people that have tons of money given them by their parents.

Agreed. But I think it stops like, you know what? No, I'm going to disagree. I don't feel bad for those people at all, actually. No, think about it. I don't feel bad for those people at all. What I would.

You want to be them?

And here's why.

Would you want to be them?

Yes, of course.

Oh, you would.

It would be dumb.

Yeah.

Who wouldn't? Like the day, at the end of the day, who has power in the world, in the country? People with money.

Yeah.

And if you believe that, you know, quote spider man, with great power comes great responsibility. If you feel that you can do good in the world with your power, which I like to think that I would try to do good or at least not do bad. I think if I had a lot of money, I wouldn't do bad. I can't guarantee I would do a lot of good. I would try to.

If I only would.

I would like to be in that position. Yeah. I'd love to have a bunch of money.

I don't think. I don't think that is the question being debated here, though. I think it's a matter of getting the money from your parents.

Yes.

Through family.

Yeah.

I would rather make the money myself.

Oh, yeah. No, I mean, it's two different.

Like you're arguing about money in general. I'm arguing the fact that the money came from her parents.

Right. And I'm saying I'd be totally fine with that.

Really?

Yeah. Dude, seriously, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Oh, I would resent my parents. They had tons of money.

Oh, really? That's interesting. I. Well, I guess, yeah, you have to think about in context. Like, I see my, my dad is, you know, veteran in the Navy. And then like your Classic, like, blue collar. Worked super hard to get to a position where he was more of a white collar boss in a blue collar world.

Yeah.

So I saw him, like, rise of the ranks and kind of create his own wealth. Now, by no means is he, like, excessively wealthy, but I think I have a lot of respect for that, and I know my dad can work hard. So right now I'm thinking, like, you're saying my dad now is worth millions and millions of dollars. Yeah. I'd take that because my dad. In my head, my dad hasn't changed.

Okay.

You see what I'm saying?

So. So then what if someone came along to you and said, okay, the reason that you've been successful in sales and you moved up through general manager and all this is because your dad has a lot of money and because you were around a lot of money, now you can make a lot of money, and you're privileged because of that.

Yeah. I think that. That two things can be true. That's a stupid take. That's a horrible take. But would you.

But wouldn't that make you feel somehow less than. Instead of you making, like, without having that as a backstop, still doing what you're doing now, don't you think that would take a little bit of the edge of success and the feeling away?

I think it would, but I think this is. Now we're getting into, like, conditioning and how you're raised.

Right.

So now. Now what you're asking me to do is throw aside how I was raised in a way to answer this accurately, and then, yes, I think it would take away the edge because, you know, you have the proverbial safety net. Right. And that's a lot. That's what a lot of people say. You don't have to struggle for. You don't have to work for it. You know, you could fall back on your trust fund. Right. Like trust fund babies. Or you knew your parents would bail you out. That's the privilege side of money. And that may be true. So, yes, it does take the edge off. I don't disagree with you there.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Like LeBron James, kid. I'm just, like, so sorry for the guy, Bronny James. Really, I'm not really.

Yeah.

Are you saying because. Okay, you're not saying because of the money. You're saying because it takes away from, like, a human element.

He will never be able to not have LeBron James, his dad, which means there will always, even in his own mind, have the inclination that, like, I am only what I am Today because of my f. It's not something you can ever outlive.

Yeah.

Like I can outlive and I can outwork being poor.

Yes.

And I can gain it myself and then earn it and then I. There's nothing but my own two legs I've done, I've stood on.

Yeah.

But if there's someone else that like could put, potentially put you in a better spot. I feel like this girl is just in a bad spot in general. In life. Yeah. Because of the fact that her parents, to your point.

Yep.

How they were raised. The fact that she's able to just like on a whim, go to Europe.

Yes.

She has like what you call fun.

Fun. A fun, fun job. Fun, fun employee. Who knows what that is. Probably doing some like pseudo, which means.

They'Ve been given a bunch of money. Right. So that's where I'm against, I'm against that part.

Yeah.

But I feel bad for people like her that have been given everything because either a, they're going to have a deal with harsh reality. Someone like Caleb Hammer saying this and this is what everyone around her thinks but is not willing to say. And so like if you're good, you always have the chip on your shoulder, the thought in the back of your head that maybe it is because my dad or my mom or whatever. And then if you, you're like not ambitious and super successful, guess what, you're gonna be spoiled rotten. And that's kind of. It seems like the route she's going, but like, it's just. I would hate to have that.

Yeah, that's a good point. I, I agree with that. But I don't think I feel bad for them still.

Okay. Name one person that you look up to that had parents that were, that were better than them and what they currently do in terms of success.

I mean, I don't want to say an extremely. Well, okay.

Like name one that's like, like we all would know that.

No, it's a good point. I can't think of anyone off top of my head. I can think of someone that's kind of polarizing. But I wouldn't even say I necessarily look up to them. But this is an argument that the left is making is Donald Trump came from money. He can't understand middle class families. He's always been a liar, a cheat in business and all these things.

Because his dad was good.

Yes.

But he's eclipse. He has eclipses that I see. Yeah. Okay, that's.

But I'm not saying I personally like massively look up to Donald Trump.

Right, right.

I look up to him as like a political figure and a leader, but I think he's the name that comes to, to the front of mind.

Yeah, that's a good point.

But I can't, I can't think of anyone else. I agree. Most people are like, it's also relative.

You could also say, like, from like that perspective, like, he completely, like 100x his father's wealth, right? Yeah. I'm talking about like someone underneath Donald Trump's, like, in his shadow. Like, what are you going to do?

Yeah, I agree with that. And I think from a public view, it takes away. Now from a personal view, does it take away. Now you, let's say you, hypothetically, 50 years down the road, you have a son.

Yeah, yeah. You don't hear down the road, I'm going to have a son.

Well, I mean, like, okay, I'm fast forwarding 50 years. Your son is now 30.

Okay, yeah.

Okay. So in 20 years, you've had a kid. I don't know. The math is not math. At some point in the future, you have a kid, they're of business age.

I'm 60 years old when I have a kid.

I don't know. I'm not mathing. All right. I'm not mathing right now. Now this is why I'm in sales. All right, Hypothetically, I don't, I don't know numbers. Evangelistically speaking. Yes. So you have a kid in the future. Okay. Your kid is 30.

Okay?

I don't care how old you are, your kid's 30. They're like, hey, dad, I'm going to start a company. I don't want any seed money. I don't want you to invest at all. Like, I'm going to figure it out. You. Now, let's just assume you're worth multiple hundreds of millions, dude.

Billions. Come on, dude. 50 years.

You know, I want to be, you know, I'm being, you know, being conservative for the.

What happened to sale then? Come on, dude.

So they say, I don't want any seed money.

Nothing. Yeah.

Now fast forward 10 years. They're 40 years home age.

Okay.

And now they have a business that's worth 50 million, let's call it. They've grinded for 10 years, and now they have a business worth 50 million. Does for you as a person? Does it take away any of the value that they created because they came.

From money for me as the father.

You as a person? Oh, second, as a person, As a human person?

Unfortunately, yes. Really? Because we make assumptions that it was because the, the, the father gave the money. That assumption is incorrect in this case. There was no money given. So then there's still the assumption unless it's very explicitly stated. And I don't have him to think that my son's going to go out. Hey, just FYI, my father didn't give me anything. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen.

Right, that's a good point. So then would you say that the assumption is false in terms of all privilege? Like we are always falsely assuming privilege?

Oh yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Okay. And that's not what I was trying to get at, but I think the conversation stems into what we consider privilege nowadays.

Yeah.

And like you and I are like, I'm not, I don't want this conversation to divulge into like race or anything like that. Like we're two white kids from like one of the whitest states in the United States. So we're not going to talk about like the racial privilege and diversity, which is important. But I'm talking more like financially and kind of where you stand in like the business world that we assume so many things about privilege. Like people will always assume things about you. Even now you've done your first kind of 10 year swing in business, people make assumptions about you all the time and how like the franchise fees are this and the, the co pilot fees are X and he's just making money hand over fish. And you're like, you just didn't see the last 10 years. So with this girl, you're right, she's kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. She can be capitalism's horrible, capitalism's great either way. You make her look bad. But I think what I was trying to get at is that privilege is just so skewed nowadays.

I agree.

I don't know what your thoughts were.

On that, but yeah, like part of it is everyone just wants an excuse as to why they aren't what they should be or want to be. And when they compare them to others, they feel like such a massive lack is the only way to be able to bridge that gap is to make excuses.

Yeah.

And so the excuses is, oh, they're privileged. Fill in the gap of what you're going to say is privilege. But that's usually when I see people label things as privilege, they are simply there's an excuse as to why there's a gap between what I have and what they have and the facts of the matter is there are people in your state that have got what they got.

Right?

And therefore, that nullifies the idea that there's privilege. Now, there's ratios and there's math around, like, which classes and people have better chances and opportunities, and that's valid. But if one person did it, it means it's possible. And so I think with that mentality, there's going to be someone who wins. The person doesn't have mentality is not going to win, typically. And so. But yeah, yeah, Privilege, you got to love it, dude. Everyone's privileged. Dude. We live in the United States. We're holding.

Yeah.

These. We have a camera. Like, the. Every single person watching this is privileged.

We both have, like, $30 water bottles.

Like, go, Go to, like, we're all in Tigoni in Africa, dude. No one's seen a cell phone, at least when I was there, which is now, like, 10 years ago. So they've probably seen phones. But, like. Like that. Like, you are privileged. If you watching this video and you comment how we're privileged, you have a phone in your hand, you watch this on a tv, you have a cellular network, you have WI fi. Like, let's just. Yeah. Step back for a moment and realize that there are billions of people that don't have that right.

I agree with that. And that's.

Sorry.

No, no, you go.

I was going to say, I just think it's like, we all have a level of privilege because ultimately we are all alive.

Yes.

And so if you are going to judge others for having privilege, realize that we are all privileged because we're still sucking air. So. Sorry.

No, you're good. And that's one thing that I struggle with and I'm frustrated by, especially in the political sphere, is that we've massively devalued the meaning of words. All right, We've talked about this a little bit before. I think we've talked about on previous pods. They're like, oh, yeah, he's a terrorist. Like, so, you know, people call Trump's a terrorist. Has he ever done a terror, a literal terrorizing event to anyone?

No.

Like, by definition, no. Now, you can hate him and call him an extremist, but he's not a terrorist by definition. And that's where privilege, I think, is lost, too, because we throw that a word around so loosely that I looked it up. Merriam Webster defines privilege as a right or immunity granted as a particular benefit, advantage, or favor. And I was like, well, just to be safe, let's go to immunity. Look at the definition, the root word of immunity is immune, and that is not susceptible or responsive to. So there's. There's an element that by saying you're a privilege, nothing bad can ever happen to you in theory, unless the.

Unless the immunity is as good as the COVID vaccine.

And that's the pause.

Right. So what we're saying is you have a right or an immunity granted as a particular benefit, advantage, or favor, so to say. Okay, now let's. Let's use the example of your hypothetical son again. Right. They start their business, but then the business fails, and they think they have you to fall back on. But Mike Andes has now been accused of tax fraud, so all your money's gone.

Okay.

They don't have a right or a privilege to a particular benefit, advantage, or favor. There is no right, there is no immunity to financial privilege in life, is my argument. So if someone were to say, oh, you're so privileged because of your money, I think by definition, it's wrong. By the new definition of privilege. Sure. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah. I would say, like. Yeah, it's all how you define privilege, because.

Right.

I would say there's a certain level of privilege of coming from nothing, because your mindset is so different, and you will likely be privileged in the fact that you will not quit as soon as the person that has not had that experience.

Yeah.

And so it's like, how do you want to define privilege? And that's why the vast majority of people that we do, quote, unquote, look up to in terms of success. These are people that they did not. It was not given to them, and nothing was given to them, or very little was given, or they eclipsed whoever gave them something by such a massive degree. It is rare that someone, like, we admire was handed down from the epitome of, like, excellence, and then they somehow rose to it. It rarely happens.

Yeah. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but let's use. Let's use a different example. Sports analogies are easy for people to grasp onto, and, you know, you can pull them a lot out of thin air. Tiger woods didn't come from money, but he had the privilege of a dad who really cared about him and pushed him to succeed. So is that privilege, parental privilege?

Yeah, it would never be tagged as it. Because it wasn't a direct, like, hand down.

Yeah.

For example, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the dad that pushed him. Earl, I think his name.

Yeah.

That pushed him. Whatever. That he didn't hand him golf skills. Right. And. And Earl wasn't a professional golfer. He was a good dad. That translated to someone who had tons of skills. Yeah. But then. Then Tiger's K be judged as, well, your dad gave you the skills he has. And so whether or not that that is true or not, it'll just always plague that individual, and they'll have to, like, get enough therapy to get through that because, like, his son in his own right is, like, an incredible golfer. Tiger's kid. Yeah, but. And you could literally say, like, let's just say Tiger did not have all the major championships and did not play golf.

Yeah.

If he would have just had the same ethic, work ethic that his dad had that gave him, it could be very well said that Tiger's son today would still be as success.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Charlie's lights out. Charlie. You see any videos?

He's good, dude.

Yeah. You see that video? Tiger woods, he's at the range with Scotty Scheffler, best garbler in the world right now. And he's like, charlie out drove me the other day. And Scotty's like, no. He's like, yeah, he did. So Charlie's gonna be good.

Yeah.

It's weird, though, when you think about privilege, because then I'm sitting here, I'm like, well, I'm privileged because my parents made sacrifices to spend time with me and invest in me and care for me and. And teach me things about the world and life. Like, is that privilege? I think doesn't feel right to say that, because when I. When people would say, like, oh, you're privileged because your parents are together. They weren't divorced. Like, your dad worked hard. It's like, wait, so you're telling me they made sacrifices that now has made me privileged? That doesn't sit right with me. Does that make sense?

I think it's opportunity. Right. Because privilege inherently kind of bakes into it that it is 100 upside. I think someone giving. Giving me a million dollars, somebody will call it privilege for other people would ruin them.

It's a good point.

And so I think it's like, it's an opportunity present. It's like, what do you do with it? It's like being the son of Tiger woods, you get the opportunity to be with Scotty Scheffer Scheffler. Like, that's nuts. Right? And, like, that's why, like, many times their success rate is higher. Being a successful child or being a child of a successful person is because you are around the proximity to other people. It is the Opportunity to be with those type of people that make you successful.

Right.

But there are plenty of examples of people that have been given a lot, whether it be skills and athletics or money in business that have, like, just squander it. So I'd look at it more as, like, opportunity. And so do. Do some people get more opportunities than others? Yes. What's cool about life and in business is, like, you need one opportunity to go all in on it and then you can win. And for most of us, like, it's like, oh, I have a cell phone. That's an opportunity.

Yeah.

Like, you guys, privilege. It's an opportunity. Some people will waste their life away on that phone. And there are people that will dig themselves out of poverty, they'll gain skills, they'll educate themselves, they'll make more money, they'll do something for friends and family and for their community. And it's like, it's an opportunity. What are you going to do with it?

Yeah, I like the reframing of privileged opportunity because I think about another example that came to mind is, well, did Gary Vee have the privilege of potentially being a seed investor to Uber or was it just an opportunity? And also he screwed it up. He said, it's one of my biggest business regrets is I didn't invest in Uber when they first asked me to. I could have been one of the initial investors and be worth millions of millions more than what he currently is. Well, did he have privilege because of that? Or did he create business relationships and friendships that gave him opportunities? But some people would say, like, oh, he had the privilege because, like, he's from money and this, that or the other, which I know Gary Vee's not, but I'm just saying you can, you can ascribe this person has been privileged to now have the opportunity. Or you could just say black and white. It was an opportunity. Plus, he screwed it up. See, I'm saying. Yeah, I don't know, I just. I don't like the word privilege.

I don't either.

I don't. I just don't.

Like, we are also the label as the most.

And I agree. And like, that's where I'm not going to sit here and act like I wasn't privileged. Like, by definition, statistically speaking, I. My parents are still together. Your parents are still together. Like, that alone puts us at like a percentage of the population that is. Is smaller than it is greater. So, like, we had that. We had, we had. Our moms were at home. At least from what I know about your Childhood. Like our moms are at home. They raised us, they took care of us. Like all those benefits that we had. Yes, they are privileges. Or we're just our parents making sacrifices. So yes, I'm blessed. I. I live in America. Like, I've had great opportunities.

Privileged opportunity, blessed. There you go. There's your pyramid.

What do you mean? So that's like, you're just saying, like, you can reduce it to that.

Yeah. He's like, look, we can call it privilege or you can call opportunity or say like, I'm blessed.

Yeah.

And like, like, what are you going to do? You're going to like reduce, you're going to take away your opportunities? Are you going to take away your privilege or just like deal, like work with the cards and dealt with you and the realize that there are other people who have less opportunity and they have not been blessed. And like, I'm going to try to give back to them. I'm going to try to do my best for them. That's it.

Yeah.

You can't change this.

I agree. All righty. Well, that, that's privilege. And I have the privilege of having a computer and the privilege of having ads targeted towards me to sign up for newsletters from privileged business owners to give me privileged business advice to then use on my privileged podcast.

Change the name to Privilege Podcast.

Privileged unfiltered. Oof, that's rough. I think that's just keeping up with the Kardashians. All right, so I actually recently subscribed to a newsletter from Adam Grant.

Okay.

The famous author of Atomic Habits, as well as Think Different. Great book. That's his recent book, came out last year. Really good, good nuggets in there. But his newsletter is really cool. I like the formatting. This is not me pitching it, but it's cool. It's 3, 2, 1. So he says three ideas from me, two quotes from other people, and then one question to ponder. So it's like a quick hit list, like boom, boom, boom. Like kind of refresh, restart once a week. So it's not a daily thing. It's once a week. So this is, this is one of his thoughts that he put in his three. There are many ways to win in business. And there's one surefire way to lose. Run out of money. Entrepreneurship is a game of survival. Your thoughts?

I can read it again if you'd like.

Okay, go ahead.

There are many ways to win in business, but there is one sure fire way to lose. Run out of money. Entrepreneurship is a game of survival.

Yeah, I agree yeah.

Well, you. And I think you've said that before on different terms. You've said I was making sure.

I assume I agreed with all four statements because there was four in there.

Yes. Yeah.

And.

And you, you've said in the past that if, if winning in business is. Is anything, it's just not going out of business. Something along those lines. So you've said. So I thought it was an interesting concept, but survival is an interesting word as well. Entrepreneurship is a game of survival. Do you agree with that or do you think that you could use a different word there? And this is. We're just like, I'm drilling in on the one word. But survival seems interesting to me because survival means making it kind of paycheck to paycheck, like stealing from Peter to pay Paul. Those sort of. That's survival mode. Entrepreneurship isn't that. I think entrepreneurship is a game of trying to acquire success or higher levels of earning or status.

I would say, do you want to win or do you want to not lose? Those are two different things. And so I actually would say, yeah, there's a lot of ways to win. But if, if my only game is survival and I make no impact, I don't hit my goals, don't hit my targets, but I stayed in business because I made a hundred dollars, like that seems pretty fruitless. Like, right. Even if it's not making a lot of money. If winning is, if, if losing is no money and winning is, as he says, a lot of different options. Just being 1 degree above $0 does not make me successful, in my opinion. It just means I stayed alive.

It means you survived.

Yeah. So it's like, do you not want to lose or do you want to win? I would rather strike out a couple times swinging for the big fence.

Right.

And actually going for it. Yeah. And yes, I will lose and I will not make money on something or I'll fail at something. I would rather have the 30% chance of hitting it really big than just surviving and getting a degree above zero and therefore, quote, unquote, staying in business.

Do you think that too many people, and this is. I'm making a lot of assumptions here, it's not data driven. Too many people get into entrepreneurship without realizing that they will be fighting a game of survival either at the beginning or indefinitely based on their limitations.

You probably wouldn't, wouldn't start entrepreneurship if you knew. I think the vast majority of people would not have started entrepreneurship if they knew how hard it was going to be, if they actually understood the pain that it was going to be for the first five years, they probably wouldn't start. And so the only reason we actually start is because we have rose colored glasses and we think things are going to work out. But if we actually knew what it was going to cost and we actually knew how much pain was going to be, and we were able to judge that from the onset, we probably would not choose that option. I'm confident in that because I think.

And this is where I massively agree with Adam Grant, that entrepreneurship in its beginning phases is 110% a game of survival.

Right.

And it's early stages. Whatever size of business you're trying to build in its early stages, like Elon Musk, you always reference this story. Everybody knows it. If you've listened to anything business related is he slept on the gigafactory floor like he was just trying to survive to get Tesla off the ground. That was true. But now Elon isn't playing a game of survival. Would you agree with that? Like, now Elon's entrepreneurial journey is not about survival in any way, shape or form.

For the sake of debate and discussion. I'm not even sure I fully believe.

That, but I think, I think the, the more you can trick yourself into thinking that you are in a state of survival, the more successful you'll be. It's like the reason Elon keeps doing well in like everything he touches or like many of the things he touches is because he constantly has this notion that we are all going to get killed. Like, whether it be war, whether it be the Earth is literally gonna blow up, we need to move to Mars. He's this constant notion that like, we are surviving and like we need to get to a different planet in order to survive.

Yeah.

And so I think the people who make like the craziest amounts of money and like have the craziest levels of success in their industry or their, their discipline are the people that are in this constant state of, of.

Scarcity. And it's not like a fun. Like, that's why mostly you don't want to be Elon. Like he said, like, it's not easy and like, yeah, that sort of thing. And then people at the most elite level, it's because they live in this constant fear and this constant state of survival. And that's not a normal state of like de stressed and relaxation.

So, okay, maybe Elon's a bad example. Jeff Bezos, he is not in a current state of survival. Like, let's be honest, let's be honest. Like we all See the pictures of him on the yachts and at these, you know, award shows and red carpets and like, he is not in a state of survival.

Right.

And that's what I'm saying. I agree with Adam Grant. And what to. What you were saying is we look at our entrepreneurs, look at entrepreneurship through rose colored glasses, and they don't realize there's just this massive hill that they have to climb up. I have to survive. I have to get this thing off the ground. And then eventually it can be about sustainability and not survival. Yeah.

I think it's like, are you in growth mode or in profit mode? Right. Like, he's not in growth mode. So, like. Yeah, I would agree he's not in survival mode. Like, if you're in growth mode, everything is being sucked into the business. It's a vortex for all your energy, your time and your money. And so it will suck all of that. But if you're in profit mode. Yeah, you step back. Usually you're having someone else manage. Like, he has a. You know, Jassy's in there as the CEO. You know, he has those yachts, etc. He's in. He's in profit mode. I would say go for it. I would say in growth mode, it is a game of survival. Yes, I would agree with that.

All right, so I'm going to make an assumption. Correct me if I'm wrong. You hold Elon in higher regard than Jeff Bezos. Mike Andes.

I would say higher regard. I think they both like or you like him more? No.

Okay.

I would say I. I identify with more with him.

Because I'm still in his state of mind. Like, I'm not trying to get a yacht. There's no desire me to want to go to galas and all this garbage. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm trying to say that. Cut that word out of my vocabulary.

Would you?

If you could shadow one for a day, who would you pick?

Oh, really? Is that even a question? Elon.

Okay, see, okay, that's what I'm getting at. Now I have a harder question. Okay, you get to shadow Elon for one day or Bezos for one week. Now, which are you picking?

Still easy.

Really?

Yeah.

You think that the knowledge gained in 24 hours is better than how168 or however many.

I just don't ever want to be back Bezos.

But you don't think seeing the levels at which Bezos operates for a week outweighs one day with Elon?

I'd rather. I'd rather. I'd rather Be a day with Elon than a month with.

Really?

Yeah.

That's why I was asking, like, you like Elon more.

I feel like this is because I. I am going to have to leave this experience. So after, let's say a month, I'm with Jeff Bezos, right. Let's say 10% of his time is super in CEO mode, especially on Virgin. Yeah. Blue. Blue origin. That would be interesting. Blue origin. I would enjoy that part. Everything else just. I don't want to have that in my life.

Fair.

And so whereas with Elon, like, I really want to know, how do you run all these businesses? Like, I want to see how you operate. I want to see, like, the level of things that he has to let slip through the cracks in order to focus on the. A couple things that are actually important because he's not hitting everything. Like, he's a bad. Probably a horrible father, horrible spouse. Like, he's letting all these things drop through the cracks in order to have to, like, go into a different, like, Mars and making us a space bearing civilization, having electric cars. So, like, I would want to see that up close and personal. And I think that would be more impactful to me than a month of seeing Jeff Bezos spend a gazillion dollars on his yacht.

That's surprising.

I just never want a yacht, dude. I don't want that.

Yeah. And I'm not saying about the yacht. That's surprising. Like, that's.

I don't want that, dude. Whatever. I would be getting. I'd be like, oh, I should apply that. It's like, no. Like, there are definitely aspects of Bezos that is phenomenal. I'm not undermining him at all. I don't want that life. And I would. If I had a day with him, dude, I would throw that in my mind. But if I had to compare the two.

Yeah.

If you like, dude, Jeff Bezos for a day would be amazing. Elon would be way further. Because, like, you got someone that is, like, literally trying to change history, and they have all the money in the world and still have that drive.

Yeah.

That's what I want to unlock.

Yeah.

I don't want to make a bunch of money so I can go spend a yacht. I want to have that drive until the day I die. And somehow Elon's got that.

Yeah.

And he has all the money. He can do the yacht. He could just do whatever he wanted. And he still decides, like, build businesses. Yeah. And I identify a lot more with that.

Yeah. That's fair. Now let me Ask no shade.

Sorry, no shade to Jeff face.

No, no, no.

He was in growth mode at one point and kick butt.

Yeah.

He's just not there anymore.

Yeah. And that makes sense. And that's where, like you've said before, that somehow the public, There are so many people that attach to Elon, like yourself, that he can still be one of the richest people in the world, but pitch himself as the underdog. Because going back this Adam Grant quote, he is showing that, like, it is a game of survivability. I'm going to push myself, my businesses, my goals to their limit and I'm going to force myself to have to survive out of the goals I've put myself restrained myself to.

Yeah. And like the bigger the goals he has and he will continue to make more mistakes and have more haters and he'll just use that as fuel to be the survivor and the underdog. So, like when he releases Cybertruck four years late and all sorts of problems and mistakes and people were posting memes about in the whole nine yards, like now he's the underdog again and he has hundreds of billions of dollars.

Yeah.

Like, that is like some genius market. So I would rather play that game.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, Lee, speaking on a turn here, I hope and think that you will be viewed that way in home services, that you will still have this underdog mentality because, like, you've built it your way, you've done it without seed money, without investor money, and like you came in and disrupted this industry the way you wanted to.

Yeah, I think, I think my hope would be that people see my winning as correlative to their success because I actually take the money and use it for the good of the industry. Yeah. Like, if I have more money, I know what I'll do with it and it will be better for this industry. So, like, when I'm selling products and services or I'm making more money from any of the businesses, I don't feel bad about it because, like, I know, like, if I had a billion dollars more today, we'd get there faster and it would help the industry. Like, I could do more at conference, I could build the software more, I could hire more engineers, and that would be funneled back at the industry. It's like, I really do believe that. That's why, like, when, when someone buys a car from Tesla, they feel in part like part of the mission with Elon, like to electrify America to get us to Mars and all the rest of it. They feel A part of that. And I would hope that, like, whatever product and service I sell, regardless of the mistakes I make, like Elon does, that people feel somehow associated with the fact that, like, we're going to change this industry and, like, they get a piece of the pie. They might not be able to do all the stuff that I'm doing or be in the meetings and make the calls, but, like, they still will play a part. And they do, because every single person that buy the Tesla has some indirectly affected and helped Elon do what he's doing.

That's a good point. I know. I want to jump back because while you. While you were explaining that, I was listening, but I did have a thought, because I asked you, like, will you like Elon more than you like Jeff Bezos? And you said no. You're pretty staunch, so that's not a like thing. So I think it's interesting, and I think this is a learning moment for all of us listening to you. But then without hesitation, you said, I'd take a day with Elon versus a week versus a month of Jeff Bezos. Without hesitation, you. You made that decision. But it's not about emotional, like, so how did. How do you figure out how to do that as an entrepreneur that you made that decision not based on, like, but you. You were so passionate about going to visit Elon versus Jeff Bezos?

That's a good question. I don't know. I don't really think about it. Liking someone has nothing to do with whether or not I respect them and, like, and I can learn from them. So I. There's lots of people I don't like, and I can learn a lot from them. And it's not that I don't like Elon either. It's just a matter of, like, I don't want his life, but I see a lot of, like, what I do want out of life in him. I don't see a lot of it in. In Jeff, but just as his current state of being. And that's why I would probably say that. I don't know.

Yeah. It's just interesting. You made that distinction so obvious.

Yeah. Like, liking someone does not. Is not required in order to learn from them.

And I think that's where my air and what a lot of us do. And maybe this is what I'm trying to get at. And this is obviously an assumption that a lot of times we boil things down to, like, such a simple emotional level. Like, do you like Jeff Bezos or Elon Moore? It's not about that it's like, it goes back to. And this is a phrase that you've. You've used, and I've been using it a lot more, is what are you optimizing for? Right. I mean, I know it's cheesy, but it's great. Like, what are you optimizing for? For you. The reason you were so adamant that you would spend one day with Elon over a month with Jeff Bezos, because you're optimizing for the style at which Elon leads and creates in his businesses. Would you. Would you agree with that?

In part, yeah.

It's not an emotional. Well, I like him more. Like, he's cooler than him, or this person made me upset or this contractor made me mad or this customer or this employee. It's just, what are you optimizing for? And it goes back to, once again, the quote from Adam Grant, like, you just want to win. So, like, optimize for whatever your win is and just don't go out of business. Yeah, I'm trying to, like, piece it all together. Any final thoughts on that?

Yeah, Dr. Cashy says it all the time. What are you optimizing for? Yeah, I'll do this long spiel and, like, so what are you optimizing for? My sick.

I don't.

Yeah, I'm just supposed to do this.

So that's a Dr. Cashy to my kidneys now.

I use it a lot, too.

Alex. Yeah, I've heard Alex use it a lot.

What do you have to. It's just another question of why.

Yeah.

Like, why does this matter? Okay, Alex, use that one a little bit more.

One day shadowing Elon. One week, Alex Hormozi. That one's got to be tougher because Alex is, like, very in the trenches with his businesses still.

I have to still say Elon.

Wow.

Okay. He's like. He's one of a kind. Like, And I would say Alex is too.

Yes.

But, like, I think if you talk to Alex, he would say the same thing. He's not even the same stratosphere.

Yeah.

Like, he's not.

Right.

And I'm not in the same shot. I'm not in the stratosphere of Alex. There's levels here.

There's a lot of layers to this.

I would love to be with Alex. And there's definitely something to be said that, like, I would gain more actual tactical things because he's not so out of this world compared to me. Like. Like, Elon would be. Elon's untouchable. And, like, you have Multiple jets. You have four. No life changing, humankind changing businesses. It would be hard to identify with that. But I think if, if, if. If Alex was given that, say, hey, which one should you take? I would imagine he'd be like, just take Elon. I think that'd be the right decision. But I think in the more immediate term, like, the next five years, shadowing Alex for like, a week would probably do me more good.

That's kind of where I was leaning because there's a little bit more parallels between your businesses, your styles.

Yeah, I agree. I also think that if you shout out Alex for five days, you would probably just see him working on his laptop most of the time.

Totally.

Yeah.

And working out a bunch.

Yeah. Well, no, he doesn't. He doesn't work out a lot right now. Maybe once or twice a week.

Mean pump sessions.

That'd be fun.

Okay, I have to ask one more. And for anybody that at this point is still with us deep. One day with Elon Musk or a month. One week. So it's four weeks.

Okay.

And each week is with a different host of the all in Pod. So you get to spend one week with Chamath, one week with Jason, one week with the Sultan of Science, and one week week with Sachs.

And they're all very different.

If you don't know all in podcast, Great.

I think me personally, I'd still want to do Elon. I think from a business perspective, connections perspective, you'd want to probably take the latter because, like, in a week, you get to know someone really well. I would. I would say this, though. I would rather take a week with Alex than a week with each of the four. Okay. Yeah, that makes. Yeah, so it'd be like them. Alex, Elon. There you go. Bezos is ranking people.

Yeah, it's a fun.

Bezos would still be above, like, below Yolanda. Above Alex.

Yeah. I don't want this podcast to divulge to bad Internet. Yeah, Seriously, bad Internet. Be like, blindly rank these entrepreneurs without knowing who's coming next. And then, like, the fifth one, you have your number one slot open. The fifth one's like Vince McMahon started the WWE. No, Mike. And his favorite entrepreneur, Vince McMahon.

All right. Non financial advice.

Not financial advice. Here's mine.

Yep.

My wife bought me this walla. This is a new. Well, it's not new, but it's new to me.

Okay, so.

So pop. Hit that button. Hit that button. You have the option to do a classic pour or. That's a straw. Oh, I knew you were gonna like this. So I'll demonstrate. I'll demonstrate. So see that? There's two holes. Okay, so.

That'S pretty fire, dude. Wait, when you tip it though, does it kind of come weird out of the bottom part?

No, it's different than like drinking from like a glass, so you kind of have to get used to it.

But does air come out of the straw when you tip it?

Not particularly.

Okay, what if you're towards the end though and there's air at the end?

Yes.

Oh, it does, but it doesn't like.

It doesn't throw you off.

Okay.

Just keep your mouth open.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah. A walla. Very cool water bottle. My wife got it for me and honestly I never thought, you know, having a cool water bottle would be sweet. But it's, it's sweet. It's nice to have the straw or the pour off.

Okay. So my non financial advice is eye covers, but ones that have velcro in the back and you actually wrap around your head. Highly recommended especially for air travel.

Weighted or unweighted.

Oh, unweighted.

Okay.

Some people really you get a little. What are you up front here?

Yeah, like a little heavier.

Really.

But I don't know. But if you're saying air travel, you're sitting up, so the weight might feel weird.

Yeah.

But if you're laying down, they say the weight kind of it had like, I don't know, your weighted blankets.

Talk about privilege of unwrapping our weighted eye covers and fancy wallet.

I'm leaving.

Like and subscribe. Yeah.

Speaking of privilege.

Like and subscribe.