From PRISON to Starting a Landscape Business! (Coaching Call w/ Mike Andes)

Cool. Yeah. I was looking at your website. Looks very nice. How long you've been doing? Doing it now. The business?

2013.

Cool.

And how many employees do you have now?

Right now I got one office staff and two field laborers.

Two field, one office.

Cool.

And what do you think, like this year? What's kind of your goal for revenue this year? Do you know?

Shooting full 500,000.

Awesome, man.

Cool. And is that mostly landscaping or mowing or what do you kind of focus on mostly? I know I kind of saw you kind of do a lot of those things, including hauling and things. But what kind of the breakdown you think?

I think for the mowing. So we had about. We averaged about 60 mowing clients.

And I guess I would say most of our revenue comes from projects. So when I say projects, I mean like mulching, plant design.

What we do, retaining walls, some flagstone.

Gravel, that type of stuff. So like those projects ranging from like the maybe 3,000 to $10,000 mark. And that's kind of like where I wanted to take the focus too, because when I first started I was just cutting grass because I didn't know how to do anything else. So I was just like it.

I'm.

I know I can get a mower and a weed whack and go knock on people doors and say I can cut grass, but I started telling people that I can do everything else as well and kind of learned it on the job and through YouTube and stuff like that.

Very cool. Yeah, very cool. So what. What's kind of. What can I kind of help you with, do you think?

I guess just. I guess structure, I think because one thing I'm struggling with is like every year I have to find a new mowing, a mowing supervisor, because we basically split our crews in two. So I usually run a project crew and then I have somebody run the mowing crew. So the mowing, they strictly just cut grass and maybe they're like weed plant beds, if that's a service that the customer gets through our packages that we offer. And they'll do like the hedge trimming and stuff like that. So the maintenance type of things. And I was trying to focus more so on the projects because that's where the bigger money is and it requires a lot more, you know, mind work and supervision. So what I wanted to do is kind of get it to a point to where as though I'm not working.

As much in the field in the physical sense and more so just plan operator, if that makes sense. Because right now I'm doing Both. And it's like, I've been doing this for years. I know something got to change in order for it to grow. And what I think has to change is kind of structures and finding out how to kind of retain good employees. And I think one of the things that I got to do is stop by leaning towards comfortabilities. One thing I do when hiring, it's easier just to go with somebody you already know because, you know, you trust them with your truck and all that, you know what I'm saying? And make sure they not stealing money from you.

You know.

So right now, is it. Is it kind of is finding the right, you know, more hires kind of the issue right now for growth? Or is it more of like the marketing side, like bringing more leads?

I think the leads are pretty much good. We advertise through Angie's List and the website. So Angelis brings in a good amount of leads. We were doing Home Advisor, but it seems like the Home Advisor leads, they'll shoot out to multiple contractors and becomes a bidding war. And sometimes it doesn't even make sense to market through them. So the leads coming in pretty consistently, I would say we do about 10 to 20 estimates a week. And like I said, I usually take a Monday or Sunday to do those estimates and try to fit them in after work days whenever I am out in the field working and do it like that. But so I think the leads are coming in good. We just gotta get to a point where.

It'S just more structure in the business, I think. Got it.

And so right now, like you're saying, though, you're a mowing manager, you kind of have big turnover there every year.

Yeah, every year I gotta find somebody else to do it. Like one year I had my brother doing it, but he. He about to graduate from college and he was like, man, I'm not doing no physical labor. I went to college for a reason.

But he not messing with it. I had my father working for me a couple years, but he's getting older. He can't really keep up with the pace. And then other guys I had working for me, you know, they still. They still involved in the streets. They can't leave the streets alone. They still think it's something there for them.

That.

So there's nothing to do with that. But I shot out some ads through indeed. And I've been getting people applying. I gotta reach out to a couple more people, but some people I reached out to, they just didn't follow back up or something happened there, so. And I'VE been. I've been listening to a lot of podcasts and things around the labor field and all that in our industry and everybody's saying it's really difficult to find people right now, I guess because there's so much free money floating around and.

Yep. Yeah. Like, you know, in terms of structure, the thing too is like trying to find someone that almost wants to treat it like their own, but they don't want to own the business. Right. Like finding someone that even if you did profit sharing or something with them, that would try to keep them on board because like, if you can solidify that side of the business by having the mowing manager that's solid and like trains people up and is there for a few years, like, you know, it just give you the freedom to actually put people underneath the them trained up and really grow instead of always having that turnover.

Right.

So, you know, profit sharing is a great way to do that and. Or even just like open book management and sharing the numbers with that person and like getting them kind of bought into what you're trying to do. Because otherwise. Yeah, like every single winter when you let them go for a little bit or it slows down a bit, they just, you know, they bounce.

Right?

Yeah, that's what I'm dealing with now. Other than that. So I was saying I wanted to kind of replace me as well within the mix of actually working in the field and like I'm there from start to finish on every job type of thing to. Whereas the. I get to a place where I become the estimator. So I'm basically the estimator. I'm getting the materials for the jobs, making sure they're there and making sure the guys are doing it to the scope. So I want to get to that place. But I'm trying to figure out in this stage of where I am in business if it makes sense to do that or do I need to just play that position for a while and play basically the crew lead to the project crew, if that makes sense.

I think if you were, if you were kind of like, okay, I'm gonna do 500,000 this year, and that's kind of it. But if you were growing every month, I think where you're at now in your trajectory, you kind of need to make that decision. Either you go start becoming the estimator or you stay project manager because you can stay pretty profitable where you're at now if you just kind of keep a few employees out in the field, two employees, person in the office, like you'll be pretty efficient and make good money. But as you know, as you want, like, staying out in the field is not what your desire is. So, like, in my opinion, it's a matter of going and getting two more employees out for the field because you got to replace yourself, number one. But you probably do the work of two people, right, in terms of just labor. And so going out and finding two people and then going out and by having two more people, you probably, people see you more, you're able to focus on those 20 estimates more, sell more jobs, and that's when the growth really starts to happen. Like the next catalyst to your growth, like going from 500 to a million is going to be you getting out of the field and focusing on estimates. Because if you're just doing it, say on Sundays and Mondays, that means that someone who asked for an estimate on, say, Tuesday or Wednesday is waiting five or six days to get you there and then another few days to get the estimate. And by then, like, their grass is overgrown, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so your close ratio will go dramatically higher if you can be there the next day, get the estimate out to them within a few hours, and then they're on the schedule the next day.

Yeah, I realize we close a lot more jobs faster when I can get out there that same day, or at least the next day when they ask for the estimate. And I pretty much do that. It's really quick. When I'm on the site, I measure everything, look at it. I can kind of gauge what's going to be a problem, what's not, and then I can come up with the estimate in like 20 minutes. And people, you could tell, they're excited by the fact that we showed up within a day and then they got the estimate that quick. Because I heard over and over again at least two or three times last week, people was like, yeah, I had three other people come out and I still ain't get the estimate like last week. Like, what the fuck?

And that's the thing, like, especially in around D.C. like, the property values are so high, there's absolutely a market that's willing to pay off premium price for someone who shows up. Right. And so if you, if you made the commitment to, hey, I'm going to go full time out in the field or out of the field doing estimate work. And obviously there's occasionally you got to jump in and help. But like, let's say you got, you went and found two employees, you know, costing you some money, you're getting out in the Field, out of the field doing estimates, you can absolutely afford to then raise your prices by a few dollars per hour because to compensate for the extra expense of those two employees because you are now able to get to the customer faster and that value to them is worth, you know, $5 more per hour.

And so I think, I really think that you would close. You know what. Do you know what your closing ratio is now?

No, I actually don't even know how to gauge the closing ratio. So we use Jobber. I know it's probably, you can look at it in Java, but I don't know how to gauge how you gauge the closing ratio.

If you just take the total number of.

One estimate. So let's say for example, you sent 100 estimates and 30 of them were accepted. Right? You just do 30 accepted divided by total estimate sent out would be 100. Right. So 30 divided by 100, that's 0.30 30%. Right. And so if you did 70 estimates total and 20 of them were closed, you do 20 divided by 70.

Where do you want to be at? Another probably difference between exactly what you're doing and where you're at. Where typically you want to be at?

Around. Yeah, good question. So like when we, when you kind of have different stages of business, like if you're in hyper growth, like your goal is I want to grow, grow, grow, then I want that like 50 to 70% at least. Right. If you're in more of conservative, like you want to do profit, you want to make a lot of profits and not grow as fast, that's when like 40%, 40, 50% is okay. But really if you're trying to grow like 60, 70 is where you want to be at. And I really feel that by being there the next day, getting the estimate faster, you being full time doing, being able to do that, you will close 15, 20 more of your jobs and that's what's going to allow for the growth and fill the schedule for those two new guys.

I got you, I got you. You got. I know you talk a lot about service autopilot. You still use that? Have you ever used Jobber use that before?

I have, I used jobber like six years ago.

I got you close. Converted.

30 days converted. 72,000.

Java, they give us, I guess, numbers like this. It says awaited response, changes requested, approved, converted, archived.

What could I look at?

Is there one called accepted or one.

There'S approved and converted perfect.

So let's do approved.

And how many of those, like let's say for the past month I don't know what range they are giving you.

There, but yeah, we can pick 30 days. Calendar year, 12 months. This month.

Let's do 12 months. Because if you do just this past 30 days, the problem is sometimes people haven't got back to you yet.

All right.

Let's see. Approved, verdict.

Converted, approved, awaited response.

Is it like, can you. How many like total estimates have been sent out? Can you see that number?

So it says draft, awaiting response, change requested, approved, converted archive. Yeah, so total, it says 687.

Okay. And then let's do the. The one that is approved.

Don't look right. So approve says 5.

I don't think that's.

What's the other. What's the other one? Approved. And what was the other one?

Convert it?

Yeah. Is that the same thing or different convert it?

Well, in Java you go from. I guess you go from a waiting. The status goes from a waiting response to approved and then converted. So converted convert is 189.

Got it. So let's. Let's assume 200. Just because there's probably some in there that might have not got all the way to converted. But like at that ratio right there, you're around a 29%. Close ratio, 28, 29%. So about a little bit less than one in three estimates are being accepted. I really feel like you getting in front of the customer faster can get that above 50%.

Yeah, I got you.

So that's the number I would really recommend you track every single month.

Total.

Total number of estimates sent versus total that were converted. And you know, what is that? That percentage? And I really think you can get above 50% just by trying to get there in time, right? Because if someone calls on a Sunday and you're doing estimates that Sunday and you're like, okay, well I'm gonna get you next week. Okay, well, now they're waiting one week for you to come. So we, you know, next Sunday you're there then maybe put together the estimate on Monday, get sent out to them Tuesday, they're knowing nine days for that estimate. Get to them. Right. And if it's a project they want done right away, a lot of times, especially in your market where everything's so hot.

It goes to the person who gets the estimate done first. Not necessarily the best person. The cheapest price. It's like, who just gets my estimate, I can get accepted, Right?

So, yeah, I got you as far as like gauging clients. When you. I guess when you, when you guys go through your intake process, do you ask Clients like their budget and things to kind of like filter out, which leads make sense to even go out to. Or do you charge for estimates or how you guys do it?

Yes, we don't charge for estimates on the upfront. Like, we say that there's free estimates on the. On the actual, like, calculation of our numbers. We do have an E fee in there that covers the cost of going up, but they don't get charged that, like, for just getting the estimate. Right. So it's all on the back end that we charge for the estimate. But.

In terms of the intake part, I would only do that if you are overwhelmed with work. Right. Like, if you are way behind and you need to be out in the field and you just do not. That's what I would tell my office person. Hey, ask them if they've established a budget. Ask them if they know, you know, what plants they want, what type of materials, et cetera. But the beautiful thing about you being able to get there within a few hours for an estimate is the fact that you're gonna beat out all the other competition getting to their property. They're not gonna want to go call five other contractors. They're just gonna roll with you, you know, and so creating a system around, you know, for example, having a binder with the different materials, the different types of plants that you have and showing it to them. So that way you're not like, you don't want the big long sales cycle. Right. And so when you're able to get to a property fast, what you also want to do is when you leave that property, they know exactly what they're going to be getting in the estimate. It's not like, oh, I'll meet you at the supplier, I'll meet you at the nursery. Like, ideally, you have a laminated binder. You show them, hey, this is what I'm going to put in the estimate. Here's what. Okay, great, great, great, Cool. You can go get the estimate done.

And so by being full time, you'll get those back to them so much faster and your close ratio will go up.

I got you. And as far as services, so I was thinking about kind of scaling back services to kind of focus on specialty things that bring in actual money and not wasting time with smaller things. Even though, like, the mowing crew can kind of handle smaller things. But I was thinking about kind of scaling it back to make it more automated. Like I said, us personally, we don't specialize as in far as, like, concrete deck building, fence building, anything like that. But we still advertise those services. And what I would do, I have one or two contractors that I work with on a daily basis that can get that done and within a reasonable price so that I can still put a contractor fee on top of it. So I was trying to see if it makes sense to kind of start hiring people that actually has that skill set so I can have that skill set in house or just keep rocking out with the contractors and kind of figuring it out like that.

I'm a big fan of the latter. Like, you really focus on the simpler services and then subbing those things out, mostly due to the fact that like right now, you could figure out how to do, you know, a lot of those things. But the problem is it ties you more and more to the daily operations where our goal is like, we have plenty of leads coming in. It's a matter of structuring, creating organization around what we already have. And as we grow, by adding more services and more complicated services, you're only adding the complexity of the business. It's only, it's so much harder to create structure and systems around, you know, $50,000 paver patios compared to, you know, fifteen hundred dollar cleanups and mulch installs. Right. And so it's not as fun as are exciting, but it's easier to find laborers. Like I can find a labor that can install mulch tomorrow. Finding someone who can install a paver patio and a wall in the outdoor kitchen area, pretty difficult, right? And so that's what comes to my mind is if your goal is to get out of the daily operation where you're not having to manage the project, yes, you can make systems to make the project management go better, but better yet, make the project simpler so it's easier to manage. Right. And so I, that's kind of the way we always tend to go is the simpler services. If someone else wants, if they want something bigger, we can sub it. That's easy. But I don't want to go get the trucks, I don't have to go get the equipment. I have to get a bigger shop space to facilitate those projects. And then now I'm stuck with finding more expensive laborers, harder to train them up, harder to get them profitable. I like the simple service, they scale, right. Like in dc, you do not have any shortage of the simple services. It's a matter of creating the systems and structure to scale it. Right. To go from 2 in the field to 10 in the field, that's doable. Now do I think you can do 10 employees you know, simple services, mulch, mowing, et cetera. Absolutely. 10 finding 10 guys right now that can do paver patios, run an excavator, run drainage, do irrigation on all of those things combined. Very difficult to find. You know, so.

I got you. I got you in terms of the office staff. So like I said, I got one office staff right now. She actually lives in the Philippines, so she's a virtual assistant, but she's been with me for like, what, eight months maybe she working with me for eight.

Her.

Her operations include.

The first step of intake of the client. So when people send us an email or they respond to the website or Angie's list, anything, her responsibility is to go in, kind of get as much information as she can on or via email, try to gain some pictures, and then set up the schedule. He also runs the QuickBooks.

And Scheduling and Jobber as far as the estimates and stuff like that, and also social media posts. So I was trying to see if it makes sense to get her to do any other of the tasks that I would normally be doing. But I think the issue with that is, of course, number one, she's from the Philippines. So it's, It's, It's. It's kind of a barrier there with the talking. Like, with talking, I can understand that we can talk, but as far as we're talking to everyday American customers, I don't know. But, you know, I'm trying to figure out, you know, all the services that I can kind of put on her plate to make it make sense. I mean, it makes sense anyway because, you know, their money's a lot different from ours. So it's like, what she. She's ecstatic with $8 an hour right now, and that's that more than some doctors making the Philippines for some crazy reason. So I'm trying to figure out, I guess, how to maximize that as much as possible as well.

Yeah, like, whatever she can do, I would have her do. But it's just a matter of, like you said, the phone is the biggest part, right? And so I think it's a matter of, okay, like, listing everything that you do in a day and then literally starting to ask yourself, okay, can she do this? Can she do that? Can she do this? Like, everything, right? Whether it be payroll, whether it be anything and everything in QuickBooks or in Jobber, she should be doing those things. And then the one part you have to hold onto is the phone. Right? And I don't think it's a big issue because you can even make it where for, for example, she can make a note for you to call somebody, and that's the only way you actually take action. Unless I get a note that says I need to call someone, I don't touch anything. Right. And even like email, like, stuff like that.

I think that's pretty much where I'm at now with the just having to hop on the phone and like when people call. Some people don't send emails or don't go through the website. They're just calling and just want to talk to somebody right then and there. And I there. But nine times out of 10, I can. I'll just say, yeah, so the quickest way to get the estimate is, you know, just go to the email, blah, blah, blah, and they'll do it nine times out of 10. So that I think that's where we at now. The only thing I'm doing on the scheduling side is the jobs because, you know, I'm here every day and I know when we finish, when we don't finish and all that. So I schedule the jobs and I'm on the phone. But pretty much everything else, I think she. She pretty much got it on her plate at this point.

You could do drill is this is a thought. It depends on what kind of like how your phone system is set up, but technically what you could do is like when someone calls, you could have like press one for an estimate and then press two for customer service. And then if it's a one and she's just doing like intake, like getting in for a job, it could go to her. But then if it's more customer service and like, you kind of want to make sure, like, you know it's you, then you come to you, then I got you.

Yeah, it makes sense. And it's different services that you can just plug up to your phone for that.

Right, Exactly.

I got you. I got you.

What else do I have? So due to this Corona stuff, you know, they're giving out all this money. So I got one of those disaster loans. Oh, yeah?

Yep. Eidl or ppp.

The Eidl. So I got Ideal, you know, it's. I think it's what they give us 30 years to pay it back and then they don't start talking to you until, like next year. They just extended it. So they're not, they're not going to take any payments till next year. So I got it just because I talked to a couple different people and they was like, man, just get it.

Oh, yeah.

Like, ain't nobody going to give you no like, you like pretty much anything else, bro. Being black and a small business, they're not trying to give you no money, man. Take that money, man. So I got it. I ain't touch it yet. So I got it back in September. I ain't touched it yet because I didn't really have to. But no, it's going to come a time where I got to stop paying this stuff back. So I'm trying to. What I'm trying to do with it is figure out what makes sense to invest it into to actually bring upon that return that makes sense to either have taken a loan in the first place.

How much is it?

150.

150,000? Yeah, let's go.

That's awesome. Well, this is the bottom thing is like whatever you don't use, you can always pay back in a year or whatever if you haven't used it right? But this is what I would say because on 150,000, your monthly payment, if I, if I'm not mistaken, about twelve hundred dollars, am I right?

I think it was a little less. I think it was like seven.

Sweet. So you got, you got the three point 75.

Yeah, it was three. Them first.

Let's go. Okay, so, dude, this is big. So I really think, like my idea on the whole Eidl thing is take it and then use that money to basically grow to the point where when you need to start paying it back, it's like inconsequential, right? 7, $800 in a year from now, if you double the business is inconsequential money, right? And so like $150,000, man, that will, that will take the business to another level, right? You can afford to go hire someone, pay them a little extra to be able to stick with you as a mowing manager. You can go out and you can hire people knowing that if you need to, you know, their truck, you have the money for marketing. So.

What's your thought? What? Where's your thought process that.

It immediately went to hiring some more skilled people and, you know, giving them a little bit extra to keep them around because, you know, it's been. My main ongoing issue is having first of all, knowledgeable skilled people that I don't have to train. Like, I believe in a certain level of training to the point where from the culture around, not perfectionism, but basically the quality of service and stuff like that. But what I've been having to do is I've been having to train the guys how to do the work. Then about the culture and then about everything. So it's like, you know, and I talked to a couple different people about it, were like, well, the good thing is, you know, you train them on how you want it done from start to finish. The bad thing is, you know, it takes a long time to even get a person there. So while you're trying to run the business and grow, you ended up playing babysitter, which I've been doing 2013, because like I said, I started off with no experience myself, and then I had to turn around and, you know, coach other people and play, play daddy, step daddy and uncle and all this other stuff. It's been crazy. So, yeah, no, immediately it went to, you know, I was like, I got all this money to invest in the company. I need to invest in people to actually push the company. But it's like, I know I need a system or better systems put in place to when I get the people, they not looking at it like, all right, this is a one man band. This shit ain't gonna last. Even though you know what I'm saying. So I'm trying to kind of weigh those options, if that makes sense.

This is what I would do, Jerrell, is like, I would really reduce the amount of service that you offer.

And even, even if you don't sub out the other stuff, because, like, when I look at your website, for example, it looks like a jack of all trades kind of a website. You got, you do everything right. The problem with that is when your customer comes to you, they're going to ask for everything. The problem is you're the only one who knows how to do everything right. And so it makes it very, very hard to keep people. I would get really doubled down on what are the services you want to do. And it doesn't necessarily mean they need to be simple. Like, for example, you might want to do paper patio. That's fine. But you get really good at it. And it's easy to train people on the two or three types of paper patterns you do, right? And so, like, if I was you, I would cut back on how many services I do to simplify the business. And then I would then deploy the money that you have, which you would not need more than 5 or 10,000 to do this. And that is go get enough business to make up for the loss of revenue by not having those other services. Funny fact, though is you will continue to grow because now you can actually scale the services that are simplified. You can go get two or three. Like when we get, when we hire people, we Want them profitable within three to five days. Right? They need me making money not just like generating revenue, but like profitable, efficient enough to make profit. You can't do that if you're requiring people to be six months before they understand stuff. You're never going to be able to not be at a project if you're the only one who knows how to do stuff. The very best will be bouncing back and forth. Okay, guys, do this while I'm gone. Here's how to do it. I'm going to go leave and do it. You're going to run yourself ragged. You know, like I'd be looking at, okay, what are the simple services? I know I can train someone up with one week to do and then I'd be going out and saying it's going to kill you. But you're going to say no to jobs, right? When you know, whether it be you taking the intake or her taking the intake, your va, regardless, you have to know, okay, we're going to say no to some jobs. And trust me, it tears your heart out.

Like.

Those are what you used to always say yes to. And you know, those are big jobs. You know, there's money in those jobs. But what you're going to go do is go market against the services you want now and you're going to be actually able to scale the business. And that's when you get out. That's when you're able to really get out of the day to day operations and the field work. And that's when employees come on board and they say, oh, this guy's got us stuck together. I can go at work, be profitable without him being around. It's not a one man show. And so like how many trucks do you have right now, Gerald?

I have three.

Yeah, with that many trucks you could easily get four or five employees. Right. So when I see that you don't need to go buy more stuff, equipment wise or truck wise, I should say, to facilitate your growth. Right now it strictly comes down to people and more leads. It's the only things you need. And so the people sides can become a whole lot easier if you simplify your services and the leads, you have the money to go get those.

If you spent 10 to $15,000 in marketing in the next 12 months, you would more than replace all of your projects and be doing in a much better spot.

I got you.

And I always say projects, I mean like big, big stuff. Like you can always, you know, mulch is great service. It's simple. Anyone can do it from Day one, they're profitable. Trimming bushes, like, you know, basic, you know, installs still, like rock gravel. Those are all still doable, right? It just. The question is always asked when. When you're doing an estimate. This is how I kind of, when I first started kind of going this direction is, will I need to be on this project? If the answer is yes, I'm not taking it. Yeah, if I. If I have to be on this project, I don't want to be here. And then. And then. Have you heard of me? Talk about project management videos at all? Yeah, yeah. So, like, I would recommend that big time, you know. So if you do an estimate, you know, you're confident your team can do it right after you finish with the customer, it's like, okay, all right, so this is what we're going to be doing. And you just point it all out, make a video, send it to the crew the night before. Right again, now they're getting in. Have you heard of me? Talk about project management videos at all? Yeah, yeah. Sending the feeling of like, oh, they've got their stuff together. They know how to, like, estimate a job. So, like, I would recommend that big time, you know. So if you do an estimate, you know, you're confident your team can do it right after you finish with the customer, it's like, okay, all right, so this is what we're going to be doing, and you just point it all. Give a video. Now they're responsible, not you bouncing in, talking to the customer. Make a video, send it to the crew the night before. Right again, now they're like playing kind of middleman and jumping out, doing estimates like that. That's what keeps a bidding. The feeling like, oh, they've got their stuff together. They know how to, like, estimate a job. Give a video. Now they're responsible, not you bouncing in, like, talking to the customer and like playing kind of middleman and jumping out, doing estimates like that. That's what keeps a business small.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing that's been doing for the past, what, four years maybe? Because at the beginning I was just, you know, just going at it. Just me just walking around. I'm always a matter of fact, I didn't even have a truck. I was just walking around.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing that's been doing for the past. I just got trying to figure out a way to do something positive and, you know, stay out of trouble because I ain't want to go back to jail. So I took A little bit of money I had, I think I had like 700 left after I got out. Family members stole money and some more shit. But after I got out, I had like 700 left. Got a little Honda, a weed whacker and a blower, handheld blower. Just went around the neighborhood knocking on doors. And you know, after that I saved us some money from that. Got my first truck, then the next year got my second truck, then got a snowplow put on that one, then got another truck, another truck, and then just kept going from there. So now just I'm trying to get to a point to where as though it's really a business and not just a one man wrecking crew. Just figuring out, you know what I'm saying?

And honestly, I would look at this Eidl as like, this is your. You're going to save two to three years by having this money, right? Like, yes, we could play conservative, like, oh, we're not going to spend it. Like, I don't know, like if you had 50,000, I would say that you could do what I'm talking about. You don't need 150, but like, I guarantee you're going to get the 50 and like, oh, wow, like this is really taking off. I can go get a couple more trucks, I can go get a little bit of space. Right. Like that's what's going to happen. But you have to just kind of commit to the fact that you can't scale certain parts of the business and you're gonna have to cut out services. Right. If that's the goal. Right. If your goal is to be in the field, restaurant, you just raise prices. Right? Right. You start charging $150 an hour for you to be like the master mason with two employees with you. Right. But if you're wanting to be your full time estimator, not having to be out working, slaving all day, like that's when simplified services use the marketing dollars to literally, you could double almost the size of your business without having to buy more trucks.

Trucks, right, Right.

You have two employees, three trucks. That means you could go do three projects at the same time. Two guys in each truck, a little estimate car, and you got six employees.

You know, here's the other part. So I got two. The two employees I got now, one is like 24 and one is like 28. But they both do not have licenses for some reason. Well, I know one, one of like he came in from Guatemala, so I don't know what situation. And getting a license I don't know if they're gonna let them get it, but the other one don't got a license. So I'm kind of trying to. I'm trying to not convince, but empower these guys to kind of step up and get into a space because it's like we already here. But, you know, I'm trying to go here. I'm trying to grow. So I'm trying to get them to a point where. So they see it as like a growth type of thing and kind of higher within before I go get new people.

But the ability. Do they have the ability to get the driver's license?

One of them for sure. One of them for sure. But the other one, like I say, he's from Guatemala, so I don't know if he actually got a green card or what's that situation.

What do you pay them per hour? What do you advertise for per hour? For hiring?

Pretty much. I was going by the skills. So depending on what you could do already and, you know, depending on if you showing up on time and all this other stuff, I started from there, but the one of them is at 16 and one of them is at 20.

Got it. Because what you could do is you could say, hey, look, like, you know, value out in the field right now, you know, $18 an hour if you can work, $22 an hour if you can drive and work. Right. And that would. That would empower the one guy to go get his license if he can do it. And then if you go out and try to hire people right now, you're gonna be competitive in the marketplace because that's what it's gonna take, like, at least to get anyone to work right now.

And again, like, you know, I said it before, but like, $2 per hour, you know, if you get. If you were $2 more per hour to attract good people right now, that's all of.

$340 per month extra to get that person right now. It's nothing like your growth if you get to pay two people that 600 bucks a month. If we do that for 12 months, we're looking at $8,000, like, we have 150,000 right now to grow the business on.

Right?

Right. So, like, if you spent. If you spent half of that and you're only paying, let's say, $400 a month in a couple years, like, we got to get. We want to use that money to grow the business to the point where that money is nothing. Right. It's like, if you can grow the business, let's say by $30,000 a month in the next 12 months, right? So $30,000 a month extra more per revenue, and you're only 20% profitable on that. What that's going to mean is you're going to profit 5,000, $6,000 on that $30,000 in revenue. So literally, we're talking about a payment of $400 on a loan against.

$6,000 in profits.

Right? Right. No brainer.

Totally. And so I would really, really encourage you, cut out the services that, you know, you can't do without. You. I would raise your hourly rates that you can pay people to attract good people that can drive, because they gotta be able to drive. And you're gonna have to pay. You're gonna have to pay more for them, right? But now by doing that, you're gonna be able to go get estimates done faster out to the customer and be able to charge. Just raise your hourly rate by five bucks an hour. You're charging 60. Charge 65 now, right. Because you will still close 50 to 60% instead of 30 like you have been.

So, and then now, now all, all of that we just talked about doesn't take any more money besides this. The incremental amount for paying people more. What you're going to go spend money on is marketing. But you're going to market those services that, you know, can get done without you.

I got you.

And you're going to get, you know, people are going to want to work for you because now you're offering 20, 20, $22 an hour for what everyone else is, you know, giving 16, 17 an hour for. But you can afford it. But because you're not in the field anymore, you're out selling jobs, right?

That makes total sense. Definitely makes sense.

Yeah, man. Gotta get some employees, man.

That is, that is the key there. That's easier said than done right now. I read your story, by the way, in the Washington Post. That was very inspiring.

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's awesome. Appreciate it, Appreciate it. Yeah, man, I've been trying to figure this shit out, man, as far as this, this whole life thing, this business thing, because it's like I wanted. Always knew I wanted to do something in business, you know, it's the only thing that kind of made sense to me other than creative type of stuff, but business for sure. And that's what I've been doing this whole time. Rather it's been legal, illegal, it's been business at the end of the day. So I've been staying away from the Illegal side. Trying to get more so with the legal side. So with the company through sms, let's start SML also started something called that's a plug. That's a plug. It started off as like a motivational website. I was doing interviews with entrepreneurs and kind of trying to shift the focus and the culture of our people type and like this entrepreneurs in general. Because everybody wants to be an entrepreneur nowadays but necessarily doesn't know what goes into it. But basically from that I kind of got into doing community events where I have like we did the Turkey drive. We did one event called Guns Down, Gloves up where we, we stopped people from. Well, we attempted to provide alternate solutions to gun violence because gun violence is kind of crazy all over the world, but especially DC DCs. Wow. But you know, I just been kind of piecing stuff together as I go along and trying to figure things out man.

So yeah, something you could tap into for getting new hires, you think like kind of creating a program for them or tapping. I know it's kind of a risky kind of population sometimes but like I know you kind of have first hand experience with that.

Yeah, no, no, for sure. And I think it's some credits if not credits or it's something to. Whereas though if you had like ex felons, they'll give you some type of tax breaks or something like that. The thing is with that population is, is more so one of those things where it may be, it may be more headache than the benefit of getting like free labor because of the fact that you really got to retrain the mind of a person after they've been. If they've been locked up way too long, bro, you got to really change their whole mindset before you even get them to a place of working. Like I had to do that by myself. I had to do that shit for myself before I can even get to a place to be entrepreneurial. So just imagine a guy that doesn't want to be an entrepreneur. He just looking for a check and you got to refocus his mind on how to be a fucking regular citizen.

Yeah. And I think the thing is too though, like right now, even if you didn't make a lot of profit in the next little while and.

You paid significantly more in terms of per hour, like I'm talking 23, 24 an hour. Even if you had to get good quality people, even if you did that, I would support it for this one reason. If you get four or five people that are like that, you create a culture that is pushing everyone in that direction. Now when you go hire someone for 18, they'll get sucked into the vortex of that culture. Right. And right now that's what you're lacking. That's why you're having the turnover. It's because people come in, one or two other guys, they always go to the lowest denominator of culture, lowest standards. Oh, this is just like a one man show. Who cares? I'm not really making a difference. You don't feel any sort of part of anything. And that's like I would be totally game for you overpaying people to get good people in, create that culture, get some people that want to stay with you for a long time.

And like I can't overemphasize the fact that if you had 50 instead of 150, I would say you could double the business. Yeah, no problem.

I got you. Yeah, I think I might just take that. I'm going to do it like that. I'm going to start with that 50 and then try to double from that 50 and then if I need the rest, you know, use it as I need to type thing.

Yep. Well, because like next spring for example, you know, we still have access to the money or we can pay it back. Right. So if you, like you said, use 50 this year, go get some good employees, market the services that you really want to offer and I don't even think honestly you're going to need the 50 because it'll be profitable. Right. But get yourself out of the field doing what you want to do, which is the actual business side of things. And by doing that you're going to get so much work you're going to go have to hire people. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. As soon as you get outside of the field, you start selling more and now you need the workers and everyone's just afraid like, oh, I don't have enough work. Well, if you, you didn't have to be out in the field all day, you would get the work. Right. And so but if we spent the 50 and you grow a bunch this year, then next spring we assess like hey, do we need to, do we need to keep using this or do we just give it all back and we're only left with like 2, 300 bucks a month in payments.

Right, right, right. No, that makes sense. Definitely, definitely, definitely trying to see if there's anything else. I know we running out of time though.

No, you're good, you're good.

Disaster relief, wondering if it makes sense. I think we pretty much went over all the questions I had, full time employees, main source. In terms of marketing, what do you think about, do you guys use Angie's List at all?

We don't. Especially with your website. Like I would be doing everything in my power to get people there. It's a good website.

It shows your credibility. When they go to Angie's List, the problem is Andy's List. They're the gatekeeper, right. It's like renting a house versus owning a house, right. I want to own my house. So that way when I put my mortgage, I'm putting money in my own pocket. Right. Whereas if I'm renting, it's kind of like I got to pay the landlord in order to live there. Right. And so I look at Angie's List, home advisor, all of them as a, as a landlord, like you got to pay them to get the lead. Got to pay them to get the lead. Well, if I have a good ranking website and I'm driving traffic to that website, I don't have to pay anybody. I'm ranking well on Google. I have leads coming and it's going to take time to get there. But I would the same way it takes a lot of time to save up for a mortgage and get your down payment. But once you've got that, you're locked in, right? And so I would much rather be paying on my own real estate than paying down someone else. And that's what HomeAdvisor does. They take $20 from you and then they go take that $20 and spend 10 of it on getting the lead off of Google Ads. If you search in your local area that there's a reason why like HomeAdvisor Angeles are the highest ranking ones. They're the ones spending the most on ads.

And they're literally taking the money from you, having that and spending that money on what leads they you could do yourself, right? So if I was you, I'd go out Google Ads, you know, next door ads, Facebook ads, do every door direct mail, right. Do door hangers, do flyers, whatever is regardless, it's driving traffic to your website, driving traffic there. And you're, you're getting the Google rankings because every single time you pay them and they run ads and bring you customers, the credibility from Google goes to them. That's why they rank so high.

So does it make sense to like get somebody to do the SEO or maybe add that onto that, the VA's type of workload as far as SEO type stuff? Well, how do you, how you go about like marketing on Google I know my, I do it directly through the people that made the website. So they doing some of the stuff, but I'm guessing there's some more that I can do.

Yeah, they do a pretty good job. There's a few little things in the site but like honestly the biggest thing is just gonna be traffic. Right. Like, I don't see such massive gaping holes on the site that it's gonna like dramatically bring your SEO down. Looking more at the fact that like you're, you're paying other companies to get traffic to their sites and call you. I want you paying money to get leads and customers to your site because now you start to rank. When someone types in Washington D.C. lawn care, your site pops up. Not HomeAdvisor and Angie's List.

Yeah.

Right. And now that takes some time. The reason people like HomeAdvisor and like Angie's List, because I give them $20 and I get a lead tomorrow. Whereas with your website you might, you might spend some time spending some money in ads and not getting anything, but once it's ranking, you don't pay anything.

Yeah.

So it's a longer term game. But with this money, like you give 10, $15,000, you can be ranking very high on Google even in D.C. and so with that it's not like you have to spend all that money on Google just getting traffic to the site. So that's going to be Facebook, it's going to, going to be nextdoor, it's gonna be Google, Google, Google Ads and then also Google Local Services. Right. Those are all really the places I'd be putting the money. And then also dabbling in like, you know, flyers, door hangers, stuff like that too. And again, that comes with time that is allotted from the fact that you're not out working on a job site anymore. Right.

Yeah, I got you. That makes sense. I got some work to do, man. I gotta make some hires and have a, have a talk with the initial team, man. Figure this shit out.

Yep. And I think, you know, even if you, you kind of came, the initial team said, hey, we're going to be paying more. I'm expecting more of you though now. I'm not going to be babysitting you. I expect you to talk to customers, I expect you to do a good job, do a walkthrough. Here's why I'm going to be able to pay you more. It's because of these things. And they're going to see you get really serious when you start hiring more people, running ads, getting bigger job, more Jobs cutting services that they know you like, but you know that they can't do themselves. Like, oh, wow, he's serious about this whole scaling thing. Like, he's not just doing this, right? That. That'll change the culture.

I got you. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense, though. So the last thing before I go, I know you got a lot of things going on. You got what, I don't know, two, three businesses right now that you doing simultaneously?

Too many, Too many, too many.

So I'm trying to figure out, I guess this is every. Everybody. Well, multiple new or some people that's doing multiple things we got to figure out, not so much about. I don't really believe in the balance because I don't think that shit really exists. But, like, how do you. I guess, how do you not juggle those things but manage all of those things at the same time without losing your shit, going crazy over time? Like, how do you do that?

You know, it's just like.

Like, for example, like, why do you want to do that? Like, why. Why do you want to have multiple things?

Basically, with me, it's like, I think it's not so much that I get bored with things, but I like to it my. That's the way my mind thinks. It's like, if I'm only doing one thing. Yeah, probably is. I will get bored with only doing one thing. Like, I'm, I'm. I'm. My spirit is just, like, ambiguous. I always want to be better than I was yesterday type of person. So that's what I mean.

Then. It's only society that's telling me that you got to be balanced and you got it. You got to do one thing at a time, right? So do what's right for you. Because if you did one thing, if you were like, I'm gonna be so disciplined, I'm gonna do one thing at a time. You drive yourself crazy, right? So do what's right for you. You know, don't judge yourself, like, just because someone else says to do one thing, like, do what's right for you, you know, that's when you're going to do well. And I think it's a matter of, you know, focusing on when, when, when you are focused. Like when you're doing landscaping, lawn care, that's your business. You're focused, right? I'm going to cut services, I'm going to advertise. I'm going to, you know, get employees focused. Then I might switch, you know, in the evening and okay, I'm doing music or I'm doing video like that. That's fine. Right? And for. For some of us, like, you have to. Otherwise you would go crazy. Right, Right. So that. Don't judge yourself on that. Like, by no means. I think as long as you don't judge yourself, then you'll do what's right for you, you know?

Yeah, I got you. I got you. I appreciate your time, man. Most definitely.

My pleasure, brother. Let me know how things go. But definitely next spring, you know, touch base with me, because I think it'll be a good decision. Like, hey, we just give some of the money back. But I really think at 50, if you use 50 correctly with marketing and hiring, um, you're gonna be a really, really good spot.

Got you. We'll do. We'll do. I keep you posted. What's the best way to reach out? The same way I did. I think it was the.

What I'll do is I'll email you the. The recording of this. This video, and then you can just. That that email is a good one to respond back to.

That's a bet. That's a bet. Appreciate it, man.

I know my guys are gonna ask, can they use some of this video for. For the YouTube channel? Is that okay?

Yeah, y' all can use it.

Got it. All right, brother. Have a great evening. We'll stay in touch.

All right, man. Take it like, bye.

Bye. Do yourself right. So if I was you, I'd go out Google Ads, you know, next door ads, Facebook ads, do every door direct mail, right? Do door hangers, do flyers, whatever it is, regardless, it's driving traffic to your website, driving traffic there. And you're. You're getting the Google rankings because every single time you pay them and they run ads and bring new customers, the credibility from Google goes to them. That's why they rank so high.

So does it make sense to, like, get somebody to do the SEO or maybe add that onto that, the VA's type of workload as far as SEO type stuff? Well, how do you. How you go about, like, marketing on Google? I know my. I do it directly through the people that made the website, so they doing some of the stuff, but I'm guessing there's some more that I can do.

Yeah, they do a pretty good job. There's a few little things on the site, but, like, honestly, the biggest thing is just gonna be traffic, right? Like, I don't see such massive gaping holes on the site that's gonna, like, dramatically bring your SEO down. I'm looking more at the fact that, like, you're you're paying other companies to get traffic to their sites and call you. I want you paying money to get leads and customers to your site. Because now you start to rank. When someone types in Washington D.C. lawn care, your site pops up. Not HomeAdvisor and Angie's List. Right. And now that takes some time. The reason people like HomeAdvisor and like Angie's List, because I give them $20 and I get a lead tomorrow. Whereas with your website you might spend some time spending some money in ads and not getting anything, but once it's ranking, you don't pay anything.

Yeah.

So it's a longer term game. But with this money, like you give 10, $15,000, you can be ranking very high on Google even in D.C. and so it's not like you have to spend all that money on Google just getting traffic to the site. So that's going to be Facebook, it's going to be nextdoor, it's going to be Google Google Ads and then also Google local services. Right. Those are all really the places I'd be putting the money. And then also dabbling in like, you know, flyers, door hangers, stuff like that too. And again, that comes with time that is allotted from the fact that you're not out working on a job site anymore. Right.

Yeah, I got you. That makes sense. I got some work to do, man. I gotta make some hires and have a, have a talk with the initial team, man. Figure this shit out.

Yep. And I think, you know, even if you kind of came to the initial team, said, hey, we're going to be paying more. I'm expecting more of you though now. I'm not going to be babysitting you. I expect you to talk to customers. I expect you to do a good job, do a walkthrough. Here's why I'm going to be able to pay you more. It's because of these things. And they're going to see you get really serious when you start hiring more people, running ads, getting bigger jobs, more jobs, cutting services that they know you like, but you know that they can't do themselves. Like, oh, wow, he's serious about this whole scaling thing. Like he's not just doing this, right. That, that'll change the culture.

I got you. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense though. So the last thing before I go, I know you got a lot of things going on. You got what, I don't know, two, three businesses right now that you doing simultaneously.

Too many, too many, too many.

So I'm trying to Figure out. I guess this is every. Everybody. Well, multiple newers or people that's doing multiple things we got to figure out. Not so much about. I don't really believe in the balance because I don't think that shit really exists. But like, how do you. I guess, how do you not juggle those things but manage all of those things at the same time without losing your shit going crazy over time? Like, how do you do that?

You know, it's just like.

Like, for example, like, why do you want to do that? Like, why do you want to have multiple things?

Basically, with me, it's like, I think it's not so much that I get bored with things, but I like to it my. That's the way my mind thinks. It's like, if I'm only doing one thing, it probably is. I will get bored with only doing one thing. Like I'm. My spirit is just like ambiguous. I always want to be better than I was yesterday type of person. So that's what I need then.

It's only society that's telling me that you got to be balanced and you got it. You got to do one thing at a time, right? So do what's right for you. Because if you did one thing, if you were like, I'm going to be so disciplined, I'm going to do one thing at a time. You drive yourself crazy, right? So do what's right for you, you know, don't judge yourself, like, just because someone else says to do one thing, like, do what's right for you, you know, that's when you're going to do well. And I think it's a matter of focusing on when, when, when you are focused. Like when you're doing landscaping, lawn care, that's your business. You're focused, right? I'm going to cut services, I'm going to advertise, I'm going to get employees focused. Then I might switch, you know, in the evening and okay, I'm doing music or I'm doing video, like that, that's fine, right? And for some of us, like, you have to. Otherwise you would go crazy, right? So that. Don't judge yourself on that. Like, by no means. I think as long as you don't judge yourself, then you'll do what's right for you, you know?

Yeah, I got you. I got you. I appreciate your time, man.

Most definitely my pleasure, brother. Let me know how things go. But definitely next spring, you know, touch base with me because I think it'll be a good decision. Like, hey, we just give some of the money back. But I really think at 50, if you use 50 correctly with marketing and hiring, you're gonna be a really, really good spot.

Got you. Will do.

We'll do.

I keep you posted. What's the best way to reach out? The same way I did. I think it was the.

What I'll do is I'll email you the. The recording of this. This video, and then you can just. That that email is a good one to respond back to.

That's a bet. That's a bet. Appreciate it, man.

I know my guys are gonna ask, can they use some of this video for. For the YouTube channel? Is that okay?

Yeah, y' all can use it.

Got it. All right, brother. Have a great evening. We'll stay in touch.

All right, man. Take it late.

See you. Bye. Bye.