Hiring Your First Full Time Employee for Lawn Care Business

Hey everyone, it's Mike Andes and you're listening to the landscape business course podcast. Today is a interview or call, I guess with James, who owns a lawn care business down in Georgia. And his girlfriend actually interviewed me for a podcast and an article several months ago. And so she asked a favor for me to talk to James. So she got in and I was able to talk to James for about 30 minutes. The video did cut out halfway through our call, but most of what we talked about was caught. So hopefully it helps someone out there. And let's go ahead and roll the tape.

This is James.

Hi, James, how you doing?

Doing good. Is this Mike?

This is Mike. How you doing?

I'm doing good. How are you today?

Fantastic. Sounds like Brianna kind of set this up for you.

Yeah, I actually just found out about it like 20 minutes ago, so she kind of sprung it on me. But I'm super excited, man.

Cool, awesome. So you have your own lawn care business then, I'm assuming.

Yes, sir. Yeah, yeah.

Cool. Tell me a little bit about it. What do you do?

So four things we kind of focus on. I've been listening to you for a while. When I first started, I would get myself into any kind of project. I did, tilling, sawing, all kinds of stuff. Since then I've shrink down to where I have 40 customers and we do weekly or bi weekly mowing, bush trimming partners, pine straw and mulch. And as much as we can, that is the four services we try or I keep saying we, it's me and a part time person right now, but that's what we try to focus in on is those four things.

That being said, I'm at 40 accounts and I'm finally. This is the first year I've. We moved the two prior years so I kept having to kind of like stop and start over and rebuild clientele every time we moved. This was the first year I started with a good number of clients and now I'm kind of running into, I guess some growing pains. I've got a decent client list, around 40 customers, but I'm still not really making what I, what I expect to be making at this point. And I'm also looking to. My goal is to be at 60 by the end of the year, but I'm in this weird in between stage where I'm not really making enough to hire a full time person.

But I need to grow to make more and I also need to see about bumping up prices and that's something I'm still getting comfortable with doing because Typically I wait until the first of the year to bump up prices and I don't think I have that kind of time frame to work with right now.

So right now like you have the part timer that just kind of joins you, I'm assuming on like projects and things like that.

Big projects. I use them on however many days and then I have him two days a week where he comes out and helps me cut yards just to make sure that we get everything done and make sure that if I do need to throw in a project at the end of the week, I have the time available.

Okay, and are you doing any sort of advertising or like most the growth is just kind of coming organically right now.

Most of the growth is coming organically. Our biggest thing that has worked for us this year has been next door, just posting, you know, just making a post on there. And I've got a pretty good return off that. Probably about 12 or 13 of my customers this year have come from nextdoor alone.

Okay, cool. And then so like getting to 60, you think that's just gonna happen pretty much organically by the end of this year? Just kind of doing what you're doing now.

Well, so I'm getting a good bit of the organic growth and my phone will ring. I get at least probably a couple quotes every week and I'm here. Lately I've been closing on more, which I feel like, like I've heard you talk about when you start to close on quite a good bit. It kind of feels like maybe my prices are a little too low.

But what I'd like to do is I would like to do like a direct mail campaign and try to bump up to 60. Like we're not actively marketing and I know that we need to be again, I'm just in that in between area of if I do get the influx of an extra 20 yards, I don't know how to keep up with it because I can't afford a full time employee yet.

Well, so like the part timer, could they flex to being a full timer or not?

They could probably do an extra. I could probably bump them up to three days a week, but they don't have the, they don't have the availability to do five days a week right now.

Okay. And then in terms of your schedule, are you just kind of like working all day, all night kind of thing right now in terms like getting the estimates out, all that good stuff?

Yes. This is a kind of daylight to dark, six or seven day a week thing right now. Between cutting the yards, trying to go out and give estimates. I've got a lot of project based work like the mulch and bushes and stuff like that since COVID hit, which has been kind of surprising.

So it's kind of taking for most of the week really for me to just keep up with that and then to come home at night and trying to stay on top of the invoices and everything as well.

Do you, how far do you book out your little projects? Usually like a week or so. Is that kind of standard?

Normally I've got about two weeks booked out. Anything past two weeks, I'm not. I'm still figuring out scheduling. So booking more than two weeks out, I end up having to move stuff around so much anyway. It's not really worked out well for me so far.

Okay. Why do you feel like if you did grow, you can't afford a full time employee? Like right now, like in terms of revenue, you have the 40 customers, you have yourself full time and part another part timer. I'm assuming you're doing like 12 to 14,000amonth in revenue, Is that right or is that higher than what you're doing now?

That is actually a good bit higher than what I'm doing right now. Right now I land between 8 to 10,000amonth.

Got it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And then which market are you in, James?

We are in North Georgia.

Got it. Okay, so it is a little bit lower there. That's fine. Cool. Okay. So like usually if you're in our market, for example, I would be saying like you should be more around like 12 to 15,000 revenue, but it's just standard of living in your area and the cost of living is a lot lower. So, you know, what do you charge per hour in terms of. To the customer right now or shoot for?

So the goal that we shoot for is $60 an hour. $60 per man hour. It's been a couple, probably about two or three weeks since I sat down and broke down a week's worth of work, but we were hitting around like 40 to 43. So we are coming in lower than our hourly rate. And I think that's probably part of the issue right there.

Okay, and is that when you say 42, 43, is that on the job or is that like when you look at your whole clocked hours for the week?

That is our whole clocked hours for the week.

Got it. Okay. It's not super, super bad when you start looking at it because it's including all your drive time and everything. Right. So it means that probably on the job, you're more like 50 to $55 per hour.

So it's not so, so far off. Okay. And so what I'm trying to kind of figure out by asking these questions is like, why. Why do you feel like growing right now is going to. You can't afford it. Because.

If you can make 42 to $43 per hour of clock time and in your market only have to pay someone probably, what, 10, $12 an hour, is that pretty much going rate somewhere.

In there right now? I'm paying 12 for the part timer, so. Yes, sir.

Yes to $12 an hour. Like, you know, if you have to pay someone $12 per clocked hour, let's say 15 with taxes and all the rest of it, but they're able to generate, say, even $40 per clocked hour for your business. Definitely that first full timer that stays with you in the truck is ultra profitable, ultimately, like getting another truck and all of that. I do think that that might be down the road. But, like, the first thing I would say is get someone in the truck working with you, okay? Because the reason that they're going to be ultra efficient is, number one, you don't have to go buy more assets like a truck, equipment, et cetera. And then the second thing is you're with them all day, and so they work very, very.

And so. So, like, generally your first and your third employee are your most efficient because your first employee is exactly where you're at right now. They're in the truck with you all the time. You can watch over them all the time. And you don't have to buy any more trucks or equipment to get them to be working for you. And then your second employee, though, that's when there's a drop in profitability because now you have to get another truck. Usually if you'll get some storage space thing, you know, all the costs, overhead start to pick up. But then the same thing happens with your third employee. You should always be, you know, go from second two employees to three employees as quickly as possible. Because that third employee, you can just throw in either a truck with you or a truck with another employee and you're good to go. And so, like your first employee, like this one that you're kind of getting up to now, there's no reason based upon these numbers why you cannot, quote, unquote, afford them. The only thing that you can afford right now is the amount of you don't have enough work for them. I would assume, like, for a full timer to be with you. Is that correct?

Correct. Correct.

So what I would do if I was you is you're gonna start marketing and you're going to start actually, you know, putting some money into whatever would be, you know, door hangers, or if you do some sort of every door, direct mail or digital, whatever it is, is look out two weeks where you're booking out right now and start booking as if you had someone with you. Because when you start paying for the leads, you're gonna get an influx of leads, Right. And so you should be able to close more work. And that should, like, literally you need to go from two days a week with an employee to three days a week. You literally need two or three small cleanups every week, let alone, like more, or you literally need a few more customers on mowing. The thing with mowing customers, as you get them, it's more of a lagging. It takes a little bit of time. Right. Whereas with the projects, if you go out and start advertising and like, you noticed with the whole bush trimming and all this stuff after Covid, this is a trend I've seen across the whole landscaping industry of a delayed spring rush. And people are getting their spring cleanups now in the middle of summer, where there's like, we owe a huge opportunity for weeding and for bush trimming and for really small landscaping jobs. Because now these people have stimulus money in their hands and they're not going to go do a $10,000 project patio. They're gonna do a $2,000 or $1,000 cleanup and put some mulch in. And so that's a huge opportunity, and that's what I would go market if I was you. Because you're gonna get residual leads for mowing and for recurring services off of those, and you're gonna build your database of customers that you can market to, that you have their email address to. But then furthermore, you can book out your schedule and literally, like I said, you only need two, maybe three extra leads. Converting every week on those small projects to turn into having a full time employee being with you on the truck.

Gotcha. Okay, so market for the bushes, the mulch, the pine shawl, market for the landscaping style work. Book out two or three of those two weeks in advance. And then that right there gives me the. I understand what you're saying. That gives me the leeway basically to hire on that full time person.

Yeah. And the beautiful thing about that first person too is like, usually I'd encourage, you know, being really selective, et cetera. The thing is, you're with them all day long so you don't have to be like this incredible employee. They just need to be able to work hard and want to please you, basically. Right? And so, you know, when you start getting your second employee and they start working without you being around, that's when it becomes, you know, you really need to have higher quality people and professionalism and like accountability and all the rest of it. But for that first person, you need someone that can literally do the small stuff. Like if you don't even have them mow, if they just do weed whacking and blowing off when you're mowing. And then when you do a project, they just need to like wheelbarrow, pull weeds. Like, it's really basic stuff, you know. And so that first employee is usually the lowest level employee in terms of skill that you'll need as well as, you know, in terms of pay. You shouldn't have to pay them a whole lot either because you're not expecting them to drive and do a lot of complicated things or drive, go solo by themselves and figure out how to use a software. Like, this is like the, the most profitable employee is that first person in the truck with you.

Gotcha. Okay, okay.

But, but I understand like the apprehension, like, oh man, I don't know if I can fill the schedule. So, like, that's why you use the two, two or even three week thing. Like, well, hey, I'm gonna go market, but everyone that I book right now, I'm gonna book four starting August 1st. And then I would use like a calendar. Like you can use a digital one, like Google Calendar or a team up is what we use. It's a free app. Or you can use just a, you know, for now, your size, just a piece of paper on a calendar, like whatever it is, to just book out your schedule starting August 1st as if you had an employee. Which right now, like I said, is only going to mean adding maybe three more, you know, cleanups in a week. And literally, if you do some door hangers, you do some Facebook ads, you do whatever it is, three leads converted each week is pretty easy, right? Like, that's not a huge ask.

Exactly. Because again, I feel like without the advertising, we're, we're converting one or two a week. So I really, and I think that's been where my, my apprehension has come from is, is I feel like with us getting so much naturally that whenever we do make a marketing push, I feel like there is going to be an influx and what if I'm not ready for it? What if the quality of work drops things of that nature.

But that's the beautiful thing about paid advertising, right? Like if that happens, you just scale back the amount of advertising that you're doing. Right. And so that's why paid advertising, nice. Because you can turn on and you can turn off the flow of leads based upon how busy you are. Like if you do advertising for a week and you, you get way too much work, then you just turn off the spigot for a couple weeks and then when you're only now a week or two weeks booked out, you turn the spigot back on. And so that's the lousy thing about organic is it comes in waves and it has dry spells based upon demand, based upon weather, based upon economics. Whereas with paid, you can kind of turn that spigot on when you want it. And so that's what I would recommend doing is looking at August 1st is the time like, okay, I'm going to have an employee, I'm going to maybe mow Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Tuesday and Thursday. Just for example, there's going to be all cleanups and project based work. And so you know that you've got to go out and you've got to get two or three or four cleanups per week or small little installs to fill those two days, but that your other days are covered. Right. And so I would assume you probably mow about three days a week, is that right?

Right now. And that right there is another issue that I'm running into. It's taking me four days almost sometimes into a fifth day just for us to mow 40 yards. I think part of that is that we're still kind of spread out.

And that.

Right.

There's another question I kind of had for you is like right now about 10 of my yards are actually 30 to 40 minutes away from where the majority of my, my route is.

And I've been going back and forth. On the one hand, they're 30 to 40 minutes away. I would love to drop the accounts and try to fill them in with spots locally. But that's also giving up almost 25% of my monthly revenue if I drop those 10 accounts. And so I've been anxious about just cutting them out, essentially wondering how long will it take for me to replace them.

If you had an employee with you in the truck, would it take you a full day to do those 10, 10 houses?

Yes.

Okay, so I would keep it for now. 30 minutes, 40 minutes. You go out there, knock them out. I assume you probably make $500 on.

Those, we're right over 4. So again, a little lower than probably where we need to be.

But yeah, yeah. So like even if you have to pay an employee, let's say 120 bucks off of the 400, 380, you're still going to be profitable on those for now. Like, you know, you'd probably want to raise your prices next year on those ones specifically to account for all the drive time. But as long as you have a full route, I would say go for it. If I was you, I'd probably try to get one or two at least as soon as possible just to make up for that drive time right off the bat. Like if you went and got an extra two, like make that a long day. Like where, like when, when you know that one's on the route, those ones on the route, it's gonna be a 10 hour day. But you wanna make sure you have a full route. You don't wanna go there and work for six hours, you wanna go there and work for a solid eight, nine hours when you're there. And so I would really focus on trying to get one, two, maybe three even more mowing jobs in that neighborhood or in that area when you drive that far.

Gotcha. That way it's covering the cost of the employee for that day and everything like that. The extra drive time and all.

Yeah, just a percentage thing, right? Like if you got to drive 40 minutes, it means that 80 minutes or an hour and a half almost is being spent on driving. Which if you, if someone works eight hours in a day, that's 20% of their day is spent driving just to and from, let alone between jobs. And so if you can get that percentage down to like 10% by simply making the day longer, where they work for a lot, they work for 11 hours on that day, you know, get that percentage down of drive time, then that, that helps a lot.

Gotcha. Okay. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. And so just. Cause I want to make sure too. So, because we've been talking about raising prices and everything in the middle of the year just because we have felt like we're priced kind of low on some of these customers and all. Would you recommend doing that now? Would you recommend that at the start of next year, which is what we've.

Typically done, like based upon your clocked time rate, which if that's accurate, I would say you're actually for your market, not super, super low. And the reason I say is because if you're charging, if you're getting 42 to $43 per hour of, like, based upon clocked hours, then it means, like, you're more like $55 per hour when you're actually mowing right, which is, in your market, is not super bad. I think it's a tiny bit low. Like, I'd like that to. Right. And I'd like, you know, you to be solidly over $45 per man hour clocked when they're clocked in. However.

I think the going mid season, like, in your market right now is, like, crazy hot, and the grass isn't growing very much.

Yes.

Yeah. I'd hate for you to lose 10 of your customers simply due the fact that, like, okay, yeah, great. You're raising prices. Let's just go ahead and pause services for a month or two. Right. Like, you'd rather keep them on board. You want to raise prices when. When demand is really high. And that is when the grass is growing like crazy. And if they call any other lawn care provider in your area, they're gonna get back to them in, like, a week with an estimate. Right. And by that time, it's overgrown. And so I would really push you to wait until either like, September, when it starts growing a little bit faster, or wait until, like you said, next year. But never raise it in the winter. Never raise it in the middle of summer is my general rule of thumb. And unless you're just completely overwhelmed with work organically and you're not paying anything for advertising, then you should raise your prices immediately.

Okay? Yes, sir. Okay.

So if I was you at that marker, like, if that's an accurate number, 42 to $43 per clocked hour, I think you have the latitude to get a full timer to work with you. They're gonna be the most efficient. With you. I think you could easily get to.

12,000 in revenue, monthly revenue, if two of you are both working full time. And then next year, you raise your prices and you get to more that 14 to $15,000 range. And that extra 2 grand is, like, sheer profit.

Okay.

Okay, good deal.

You're saying a lot that I've thought for a while now, and it's finally making sense. And I think it's just been the.

To be honest with you, Mike, I think it's just kind of been a fear thing of making the jump or something like that.

Yeah, a lot of times when it comes to numbers, because you're dealing with small numbers. Right. And so, like, a lot of times, what happens, like, okay, well, I only have X amount in my bank account, like, that's literally, you know, I should have, like, you know, 10,000 or 15,000 in my bank account because I need, like, a reserves. But the thing is, it's only you working, right? And so when you're dealing with small numbers, you got to realize that, like, if you have someone working full time at $12 an hour, they're going to make all of, you know, two grand a month in revenue in cost to you. Right. You have to ask yourself, like, will an employee make me more than $2,000 per month if they work full time for me? Absolutely. Like, they'll at least make you four grand at least if they're working with you. Right. And so you just got to look at, like, that and, like, me, for me, like, lot of what you probably just needed from me is, like, just permission to go do it based upon. And the reason I can say that you can do it is because you're making 42 to $43 per clocked hour. And if you compare that against $12 per hour paid to the employee in clocked hours, that means that you're running, like, a 27, 28% of revenue going to the employee. Right. And so at that level, I always would give someone a green light to go for it.

Okay. Okay.

And then, that being said, that being said, you're going to know, hey, probably next year or even this September when the grass starts, I'm going to raise my prices, which is going to give you the opportunity you need to do that. Because when you go to hire your second employee, you're going to have to hire someone a little more skillful or a little bit more autonomous that can work without you, and that person's going to cost a little bit more. There's going to be more overhead. There's going to be a truck that needs to be accounted for in the price raise. And that's why I actually think you need a price raise, is because the growth future after that first employee is going to cost money. But right now, in the short term, you can definitely afford a full timer to go with you in the truck.

Okay.

Good deal. Okay. And quick question about that as well. I know typically you recommend doing things kind of like job fairs and all that when searching for talent and everything, but I know with COVID it's a little harder to do things like that. Do you have any other recommendations, or is it kind of just, you know, set up zoom calls and do interviews and see what you can get a feel for? I was just kind of curious how you guys have been handling that and all with COVID and all.

Yeah, like, the job fair thing isn't going to work until you're larger. Because when you need to have at least five employees, because you need to have some sort of a culture, you have, like, you know, it needs to be seen. Like, hey, like, I'm showing up to a job fair, like more of an established company. But right now we've been doing in person interviews still.

I get the zoom call thing, but there's just so much you can't pick up on a zoom call when it comes to hiring somebody. And so we've still been doing in person. They can come in the office, wear a mask if they want and things. I don't know about your state's restrictions, but for us, we can do that if we're masked and all the rest of it. Right. So I still really recommend doing an in person one. But this. That being said, I really, truly believe that 7 out of 10 employees that you would interview would probably at least quote, unquote, work for the current position you have open. Because they're going to be working with you all the time. They literally just need to be able to, like, come to work on time. Because any employee, when they're working directly with their boss is going to work as hard as they can all day long, right? So you don't have to worry about the whole like you leaving them in a truck and saying goodbye in the morning, because that's not happening right now. Now, that being said, if that person isn't a great employee, you might have to let them go next spring when you do get a second truck and you need someone to be more autonomous. But for now, you're going to get away with a lot because in terms of hiring, like, you don't need an A star, like an All Star 15, $18 per hour experienced worker right now. You just need someone that can learn, that can show up on time and can follow instructions. Right? And so because you're going to be there to be able to ensure quality, you're going to be there to make sure they've done everything right. That being said, if that person doesn't pick up, you know, their, you know, their level of quality and their level of skill, they might be on the, you know, cut next spring.

I got you. Yes, sir. Okay.

All right.

Sorry, I'm. I don't know how much more time you have here. I'm running through my list real quick to see if I have any more questions.

I got about five minutes, so go for it. Okay.

One question I do have, and, and this right here is another thing that I've. I'm struggling with, and I just want to make sure I. I guess I'm understanding. Right. Whenever we quote landscaping jobs, the mulch and pine straw and things of that nature in the bushes or cleanups we're trying to do, again, $60 per man hour, there's some of these jobs where in our market, what am I trying to say? $60aman hour. The price comes out so high that for a lot of people in our market, I do hear no quite frequently with those.

Is there? I mean, whenever it's cleanups, whenever it is landscaping projects like that, would you suggest a different rate or is it just kind of just keep giving quotes until you get people willing to pay it? You know, it's just some of like we did a cleanup two weeks ago where we went in and trimmed bushes, cut out a couple bushes, things of that nature.

And it was a 600 or $700 project that we knocked out in a couple hours, and luckily the homeowner went for it. But I give posts like that all the time and very rarely do they get accepted.

Yeah. So, like, this is why a lot of people question why we have a lower rate for projects versus mowing, right? Like, for mowing, we have a higher rate than we do for cleanups or projects, installs, etc. And the reason for that is because you're at the property the entire time, right? Like, you could probably go to $50 per hour on those because you're. You have so little drive time and wasted time, you're still going to be over 40 to $43 per clocked hour. Right. Okay. So I think you could go to 50. That being said, how. What percentage of your estimates are getting accepted right now? Like, just like ballpark.

Ballpark right now for landscape, for over $500, landscaping projects and all that. I'd say maybe one out of four, 25%.

Okay, so, yeah, then I do think you should, like, in that. In that scenario, one of two things need to happen. Either a, you raise value. Like you might watch the video I made last week about raising value, or you got a lower price. Right. And so I would traditionally push you, like, to increase value, and that is have a better website, have a uniform, have your trucks painted. Like, all those things add value, especially the website part, and like social media and things like that. But then in the short term, like an easy fix, which you don't want to get addicted to, is the reduction of price, right. And so I think long term, I would definitely say you need to work on the value side so you can charge the $60 per hour and people pay it because they see the value in a website and the fact that you have painted trucks and you have uniforms and you have insurance and all these other things, that adds value, which eliminates the price question. Right, but, or like, did you watch that video last week that I made or not?

I actually did. I actually did.

Cool. Yeah. So you know what I'm talking about. So basically, like, that's the way you want to be focused long term. Do I think in the short term, like, the rest of this year I would go down to 50 to get that full time employee working for you? I do. Like, the reason I'm okay with it too, is because if you're paying someone 10, 12 bucks an hour and they're making 50, the numbers still work out. Right. Like in our market, if we have to pay someone a minimum of $18 per hour, like, there's no way in the world 50 bucks an hour is going to work for us. Right. And so it's just a numbers game. And I think that for now, you could lower your price to 50 for projects, but still be shooting for $60 per hour in your mowing. Like, definitely. Because when you shoot for 60, your clocked hour rate will still end up being like 42, 43 like it is now. So I would say you could probably lower to 50 for your projects right now, as long as your average hourly rate to your employees is like 10 to 12 bucks an hour. But again, like next year, when you get trucks, when you get more skilled labor, stuff like that, you might need to get that back up to 55 and you know, a couple years down the road, go to 60. But again, in that process, you should be increasing value, which is the website having more employees, having more skilled people, all those systems in place that produces value to the customer.

Correct. Okay. Okay. Mike, I appreciate it. I, I seriously, I cannot thank you enough for this. It's given me a lot of confidence. You've answered a lot of questions that I've had and.

I, I, I've kind of been stagnant here for a little bit, and now I feel like, okay, I kind of have a, a plan for the next, for the rest of the year here to kind of get me onto the next step here, hopefully. So thank you.

No, my pleasure, man. I really think that first employee is an absolute green light. Like I would say, you know, like, like I said, I would start planning for August 1st to be when you do that jump, and then start booking jobs out as if you had an employee starting August 1st. So that way you can confidently hire, you know, their start date, and you know that the moment they come on board, you have enough work for them. And like, I would definitely say green light for that. After the winter, after the slow season, that's when I'd go get that second employee. You know, invest in the truck, et cetera, raise the prices to accommodate for those extra costs, and then just keep rolling.

Absolutely. Yes, sir. You got it. All right.

All right, James, you have a great day. Thanks for the call, brother.

Thank you.

I appreciate it. Mike, later. Bye. Bye. Awesome. So I hope that helps somebody out there. If you're just starting your business in the same kind of position as James. I think some of the takeaways from the day was about the first and the third employee being your most profitable because you don't have to buy another truck for those scenarios. If you get your first employee, they can jump in with you, and you don't have to go buy another truck or there's no more fuel, there's no more equipment you got to buy. Maybe having other body in the truck affects your fuel economy a little bit, but not very much. And so very, very profitable employee, because the only cost is going to be variable, and that's labor. And then same thing with your second employee. It costs a little bit more because you got to get a truck, you got to get another truck. So you can do estimates or you can do two routes. Third employee, though, very profitable because they can jump in with either you or another employee and be very profitable from the get without the need for more trucks, more equipment, et cetera. So that was a great takeaway. Another great takeaway was the correlation between what you pay your employees versus what you need to charge your customers. And, you know, in our market, some people say we're really expensive. But the thing is, we gotta charge. Our minimum rate that we gotta Pay employees is $18 an hour most parts of the country. That's going to get you a very, very skilled labor with years and years of experience in the landscaping industry. In our case, that's like starting rate if they just can show up to work on time. Right. So just very different in terms of your. Where you're at. But that correlation and those numbers, I think might have helped some of you today. So hopefully that helped you. If you want more information, go to landscape businesscourse.com Become a member. There's. Or if you need us to build your website, improve the value, like we were talking about with James. Of your business. Go to lawn carewebdesign.com we'd love to help you there. Thank you so much, everyone. We'll see you next time.