08: Alan Stein Jr discusses High Achievement, Performance & Respect

Welcome to the Mutually Amazing Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Domitrz, with the Center for Respect. The episode you're about to listen to was recorded when this show used to be called the Respect Podcast. So you might hear that mentioned during this episode. Well, let's get to the show. Welcome to this episode. Yes, I'm your host, Mike Domitrz, and excited To have our guest today, Alan Stein Jr. He's with alansteinjr.com. Make sure you put the junior in there, the JR, because it is a very different website if you do not put the JR in there. Thanks for joining us here today, Alan.

Oh, my pleasure, Mike. Thank you.

So, Alan, you're all about performance and this show's all about respect. So, let's dive into how does respect play a role in performance. I should back up a little bit because you've done TEDx talks, you speak with organizations, sports teams, pro teams. You have a wide variety of experience. So, I'm going to let you— Let's start there. Can you give a little quick background on you?

Yeah, absolutely. I've spent most of my career in basketball, primarily at the youth level, but was able to work with some really elite-level youth, many of which are playing in the NBA now. My number one job then was to improve their on-court performance, so I was working on their athleticism and so forth. About a year and a half ago, I decided to parlay everything that I've learned from the game of basketball and from some of the world's best players and coaches and take that over to the corporate sector to teach businesses and organizations how they can improve their performance. There's a very, very high rate of transfer. I mean, what it takes for a Kobe Bryant or LeBron James or Stephen Curry to be successful is not that different from the fundamentals that it takes guys like you and I to be successful as well. I'm having a blast in this new space. I was really looking forward to this conversation because I believe respect is the foundation to which all of this is built and look forward to volleying that back and forth with you.

Well, we're going to dive right into that because that's what I do when I work with organizations is help them build a foundation, a culture of respect. How do you feel it vitally plays a role in performance?

Well, so when I was working with basketball players, respect was something that was talked about all of the time. It was emphasized from a few different vantage points. One thing that I learned as a coach, you get what you emphasize. So if you want a culture of respect, then certainly you need to be a respectful person and you need to give respect to those around you. But it goes deeper to that. Going back to basketball players, first of all, they have to have a respect for themselves. They have to respect their body and take care of their body to make sure they're in great physical shape. They need to respect the game. They need to respect the process of what it takes to be a great player, which means not skipping steps and doing and mastering the basics and fundamentals. They need to respect their teammates and their coaches, of course. They need to respect the officials. Respect, again, is the thread that binds all of these different things together. I don't think that it's any different in the corporate world. I'm a huge believer, and I love that you mentioned culture. I believe culture is what drives sustainable results, and creating a culture of respect is imperative. For me, I've never liked the word employee. I'm a stickler for terminology, and sometimes I feel like the word employee gives a connotation that someone is superior to someone else. So I always prefer just using the word colleague. If I was the CEO and and there were 500 people, quote unquote, working for me, I would still want them to view me as a colleague, and I would treat them with the same respect that I would treat anyone in the organization. From the building service person all the way through the executive staff, everyone should be treated with the same dignity and respect. That needs to be— again, I know we keep using the word foundation, but everything else will crumble if you don't have that in place.

I agree, and it's true in homes too, because some people listening to our show, they're, they're applying this to their family life. So how do you see it showing up in family life?

So I'm, uh, I'm amicably divorced, and the reason I bring that up— first of all, I realize that I'm in the minority of folks that are divorced. To be able to say that you're amicably divorced and get along really well with your ex, I'm finding that that's a rarity. So I'm very thankful for that. But the only reason that I can boast that Is because we both immediately, despite our differences, said we're going to approach this divorce with respect. We have 3 children. We have twin sons that are 8 and a 6-year-old daughter. And we both said, look, despite the fact that our relationship's not what we thought it would be, the way that we respect each other is going to have a profound impact on how our children view the world and how our children enter relationships. You know, the, the way that I treat their mother That's how my sons will eventually learn how to treat women. I'm modeling that for them. And for my daughter, the way that I treat her mother is how she'll be expected to be treated by men. So to me, being respectful in all cases is really important. And as I know that you know, you can disagree, you can have debate, you can have professional differences, but you can do so in a very respectful and tactful and an appropriate way. This isn't about everybody holding hands and singing Kumbaya all of the time. It's okay to have differences, differences in beliefs and differences in opinion, but you can have those differences respectfully. And, and that is one of the most important things that I want to model for my children.

Love it. And that is exactly what we teach with parents. Hey, your role— what are you role modeling? And even when it comes to— we teach, hey, would you want your child to have a choice before somebody kisses them? And they're like, of course, of course I wouldn't want someone just kissing my child without Okay, but do you role model that? And parents are like, what do you mean? Ask my spouse before I kiss them? Well, how else are they going to learn? And why wouldn't you just do that? Because it's the right thing to do, right? But parents go, well, that's not what most people do. Well, tradition isn't necessarily healthy or respectful.

That's, that's a great way to, to separate those two. And I, I agree completely. I mean, modeling, especially when it comes to children, is what's most important. I mean, and respect comes into that Tenfold. I mean, I can talk about being respectful to my children, but if they see me disrespect a waiter or waitress or a flight attendant or anybody else, a cashier, that's going to speak at a much higher volume than what I tell them to do. So it always comes back to modeling, but not just for children. The same is true in coaching. The same is true in leadership. I've always believed that time is our most precious resource, and one of the ways that we show other people that we respect them is by being respectful of their time and valuing their time. So while things obviously pop up, I'm not going to imply that I've never been late to anything, but I do my best to be prompt, if not early, to every engagement that I have because I think that's a sign of respect. And perfect example would be someone in a leadership position telling everybody on the staff that they need to be on time for meetings, and then they themselves walk in 3 minutes late. I find that to be a disrespectful behavior. Now, it doesn't mean they're a disrespectful person. It just means in that example, they exhibited disrespectful behavior. I think respect undermines everything that we do in every aspect of our life.

Well, let's back up there because I think you said something very important. It's also on the mindfulness level, which is disrespectful behavior does not mean disrespectful person. Right. This is not a, you made a bad choice, therefore you're a bad person. This is, you're a good person who's failing to display respect or to show respect or to give respect. And that is a different discussion because as soon as people think, are you calling me not respectful? Now you got a battle. Now you got friction going on. They're not opening to learning or new possibilities.

Absolutely. And, and I love that you're able to separate behavior from the underlying character of a person, because we all were flawed. I mean, we're all under construction, we're all works in progress, we're all going to make mistakes. And especially if you're going to have a respectful disagreement or a respectful confrontation with someone, I think it's important that you do separate those things. And for me to be able to say, yeah, you know, Mike, you showing up to the meeting late today was disrespectful of your colleagues, is different than me saying, Mike, you're disrespectful, or you don't have any respect for this organization, or you don't respect the person next to you, especially if you've established the credibility that I know that you do, you just made a mistake. And, you know, it'd be no different than, you know, certainly I've said my share of boneheaded things in the past. That doesn't mean I'm a stupid person. I may have said something stupid or said something that I wish that I wouldn't have said the way that I said it. We can't let that tear down everything. However, I will say that when someone continually shows habits of disrespect, that now that does question some portions of their character. I mean, it's that old adage, you know, the first time you do something, it's a mistake. The second time, it's a decision. So if I'm constantly late to meetings, then I'm not valuing the time of my colleagues, and that's something that needs to be addressed.

Yeah, and we talk about this, that the person who, even if you don't like them, You still have to treat them with respect. That's the foundation of saying we're creating a culture of respect. It's one thing we teach organizations all the time. If they go, well, that person, like you gave an example there, I can say that says something about your character and I still have to respect you. It's not, and because that says it about your character, now I don't have to respect you, which is what people will do. And the irony is to say that person is disrespectful, you just disrespected, you just took Blanketed their entire character, or they don't— here's my one that I talk about a lot with organizations: they haven't earned my respect. Which means, well, when did you earn their respect? Do you see the game that gets played here? Now we get to choose who we want to respect and who we don't want to respect, versus I'm going to respect you no matter what happens. I'm going to respect you as a fellow person. Now, I may disagree with you or not value certain values you have or judgments you have, That's different than not respecting you as a person or your intellect or your contributions.

Absolutely. That— you stated that brilliantly. And that, that's coming from a place of humility that we're all on a level playing field. Just the fact that we're standing upright and we're breathing, we're human beings and we're worthy and deserving of respect of each other. Um, and that, that has to be that foundation. You know, it's funny because in my talks I actually substitute the word respect for care. And say that you don't have to like the person next to you, but you choose whether or not you care about them because caring is an act of will. Caring is a choice. And when organizations have folks that can care, or in your case, respect— I think in this case they're synonyms— if you can respect the person next to you, even if they're not your BFF, that's how you build a really strong culture. Because you choose whether or not to respect someone else. You choose whether or not to care about them. You choose whether or not you're going to respect or care about the mission of the organization. So, no, we're definitely speaking the same language.

Well, yeah, and I like this because I think there's some differences that are important to discuss, which is the care and respect. And the reason why we use respect in those situations. I could care about a relative who I think does not contribute well to conversations. Therefore, I will not respect their opinion is what can happen. So, I love you, but I can't stand what you say, right? The people, we all have family members I love that person. I can't stand what they say. And so right away there's a level of disrespect. So I can care and disrespect. People do it, right? I love you, but I discount this part, or I discount that, which means, well, that's not truly caring. So I agree with you, full caring would be very close, right? But people tend to dice and play with those and say, well, I care. But I don't value you because of this. Okay, well, respect means you have to value me too. I have value in this world.

Yes.

I think a great example is in the sports world. We can go look at basketball back in the day. Who— those who are old enough who are listening know that during Michael Jordan's run, he had a key piece on his team, a key piece that people wondered, how did they operate on the same court? How did this person have the patience to deal with this other person's off-the-court antics? And seemed to be self-focused. And a lot of people, when they hear this, they know that we're referring to a great rebounder in Dennis Rodman.

I saw it coming.

Yes, right? And people have this perception that you had a troublemaker in Dennis Rodman, right? They wanted to label the whole person troublemaker. Still to this day, due to politics and other things, he still has this, has this label at times. And Jordan was this amazing, almost they put him on a god pedestal of athletics. How did that operate? So, how can you explain to people? And I'm fortunate that I have read some of the stories on how Phil Jackson, the coach, dealt with that. But I'd love for you to share for our listeners how they made that work because there could have been easy disconnect of a failure to respect there and it never would have worked.

Well, the best teams that I've ever been a part of, whether it's a basketball team or a corporate organization, they recognize the fact that you build a team the same way that you'd build a puzzle, and that every piece is important, and that pieces are shaped differently and they look differently, but you need them all to make the final puzzle, which means everybody has a different role. Of utmost importance in any team or organization is respecting your teammates' or your colleagues' role, even when they're different than yours, even if they're bigger or smaller than yours, it doesn't matter. You have to respect the fact that this person brings something unique and helpful and beneficial to the team, and we have to respect that. And I think, again, I'm not privy to any information, but I believe Michael Jordan had a respect for the role that Dennis Rodman played. He was an elite defender, one of the best rebounders the game has ever seen. He would hustle his butt off. And I think that made it a little easier for Jordan to tolerate some of the other antics that he probably didn't prefer. But since he had a respect for Rodman as a human being and a respect for him as a teammate, but most importantly respected his role And knew that in order for us, the Bulls, to be successful, this guy needs to fulfill his role to the best of his ability. And that absolutely deserves respect. And, you know, with a basketball team, especially players 10 through 15, the ones that don't see the court a whole lot for playing time during the games, you know, it's so important for the coach and some of the quote-unquote star players to really show respect to those players because they're integral to the the success of the team, especially when it comes to practice. So I think in that case, it comes down to respecting the fact that everybody has a role and everyone's role is important regardless of what it is.

There's recent research that was showing that on a team, like a basketball team of 5, that if you have more than 2 true all-out stars, your odds of winning go down severely. And you're agreeing with this. I can see you're agreeing with me. So do you think that is a lack of respect that everybody starts to get me-focused when it's all-stars? versus role players that respect every— everybody respects each other's roles. What do you think is the cause of that?

Well, in elite-level basketball, I think that's, that's very true. Although I find it fascinating because in the NBA you've got 450 or so some players, and outside of maybe the top 25 guys, the LeBrons and the Durants and the Russell Westbrooks, outside of those guys, everybody else in the league is pretty much a role player. They have one or maybe two very specific skills and That they do at an incredibly high level. So yes, I think if you were to try— and we've seen this in many cases. Golden State might be the only group that might be able to prove otherwise. But if you're taking 2, 3, or 4 guys from that top 25 and putting them on the same team, I think it makes it challenging for any of them to not be the alpha male and to accept a role that they consider less than what they're capable of. I think that's where you run into problems. But, you know, we just saw it with Houston this past season. You know, a lot of people didn't think Chris Paul and James Harden could play together because they're both very ball-dominant players. They worked magic. I mean, they were, they were wonderful because they both respected the fact that the other guy was an elite-level player and scorer and could take pressure off of them. And they viewed themselves then more as a two-headed monster instead of someone that had to do it by themselves. But yes, I think if you start stockpiling 3 or 4 alpha males on the same team, it just gets harder for someone to accept what they consider a lesser role. But that's what I think Golden State has done so brilliantly. You know, you've got Durant and you've got Curry, but Draymond Green and Klay Thompson, who are superstars in their own right, they accept— and when I say lesser role, I don't mean that to the value they add to the team. I simply mean, you know, in the eyes of most fans.

Right, how many touches they're gonna get. Exactly right.

Yes.

So how does that play in the corporate world? How does that play in people Respecting their roles. When you start to get together that rockstar sales team, how do you keep them, right? Because the sales world deals with the same thing. The corporate world, retention's a major issue. How do you keep a bunch of rockstars on the same team in the corporate world respecting each other's roles?

Well, in corporate especially, I find it in different departments. Like, I want to make sure that the sales team has a huge respect for the folks that work behind the scenes. that customer-facing colleagues have just as much respect for the people that are building and maintaining the infrastructure behind. Lots of times that's the separation. It's like, hey, I'm going to bring sales and I'm going to bring business to the company, but then it's up to your team to support and to keep the client relations and to make sure that things continue to work together. I think the first step is making sure that everyone in the different departments has a very high respect level for what the other person is doing. Because if any one of those groups were to falter, everybody suffers. Then when it comes to sales, you have to have the confidence that a raising tide will raise all boats type of mentality, that I can still be an elite salesperson, but you're my colleague and I can still help and support you. When you're going after an account, I can play the assist person on that to help you land that account because it's good for all of us. You have to have that belief that the better our organization does, And the better our company does, that will come back to me in many ways. And it's not zero-sum. And same thing with the best teams, the best basketball teams I were a part of. It didn't matter who scored the basket. It just mattered that we scored. Someone in our color jersey puts it in the basket. It's a win for all of us. Don't worry about who does it.

So, in these situations, especially in the corporate world, it's the same in sports, the one barrier that seems to step in here is jealousy. Is this idea of, but I'm just as good and I'm not getting that. I'm not getting the sales opportunities that they're getting. They're handing the hottest, biggest contracts to that person, not me. And I'm just as good. There's a comparison slash jealousy that's taking place. How do you help people address that in a way that helps them shift their parameters? Because that's what we talk about with them. It's shifting that parameter from a comparison mode to a respect of. All right, so what is it going to take for me to get that opportunity? And if that's truly a culture of respect, I'm going to have that opportunity, I'm going to have that chance. How do you address that?

I believe that there's only 2 things in this world that any of us have 100% control over 100% of the time, and that's our effort and our attitude. Certainly, our attitude is our ability to show and receive respect, so we're talking about the same thing. But, you know, I would, if I was If I was a leader in that organization, I would promote a culture where everyone focuses on their effort and their attitude and their preparation and their execution, that it's not about the comparison game. That's a game that's played all of the time now, especially on social media, but it's a dangerous game because it's one that no one can win. If you allowed outside metrics and barometers to determine your own value, you will always lose That game, because it doesn't matter what we're talking about, whether we're talking about sales. If I walk outside of my office right now, within 30 seconds, I'll find someone with a bigger house, with a nicer car, with more money, who has more speaking engagements, who's done— you'll always lose if that is your measurement of self-worth. So it needs to go back to your own attitude and your own effort and fulfilling your role to the organization to the best of your ability. That takes practice, and it takes emphasis and reinforcement from everybody in the organization, because I do believe it's human nature that if you and I are sales colleagues and you keep landing the big accounts, there will be some inherent jealousy there, which is why if we foster the right type of culture, one, you'll land those accounts with graciousness, respect, and humility, and you'll share the wealth. You'll let everyone know that, hey, I might have been the one that landed this big account, But I couldn't do this without everybody else in this organization that supports me, that I don't land any account by myself. This is something we all do together. And same thing from a leadership standpoint. If someone was constantly saying, hey, Alan, I know Mike landed that account, but man, you've really been killing it for us and we appreciate all of the work that you've been doing. I think those type of steps in that type of culture can lessen that inherent jealousy.

Well, yeah, and the key there is the person who lands the account, share how you did it. That's respect, right? If I'm being closed and I'm not telling you how I did things, that means I don't trust you. That means this is now about us competing. And even though I'm landing everything, I'm just as scared as you are because I'm about holding the secrets. So I don't really respect you because I think you'll betray me. So I won't give you this information because I think you'll slash right from under me and steal some of this business from me. That's what privacy— that, that idea of scarcity versus prosperity And so, that becomes a big piece of, if you're running an organization right now, you have to ask yourself, do my top performers, do they run from a place of prosperity? Are they sharing with everyone exactly how they landed the last success so that everybody can land that same kind of success?

Absolutely. I love that. And that, yeah, I mean, that is the definition of a winning culture. And, you know, in some regards too, I know we're just talking in hypotheticals, but maybe a qualified prospect comes across your plate and it's an easy softball lob and you toss it over to me because you know that I've been in a little bit of a slump and you let me close the deal. No different than I've scored the last 10 points and you're in a shooting slump. I'm going to find you the easiest basket I can get you to get you going again. It does. It takes a tremendous amount of humility, and anytime there's humility, there also has to be that confidence, which you just mentioned, that, hey, I can tell everyone in the organization, shoot, I can post on social media how I just closed this deal because I don't care if anybody else knows. I'm confident in my ability to do what I did, and that is ultimately a very, very high sign of respect.

Yeah, it's like, uh, we're members of the National Speakers Association, and people ask me all the time, wait, Mike, you go to this convention with other speakers, nobody's telling you how they actually built their business, are they? Because I mean, then you could cut the business out from under them. I'm like, it's Exactly what they're doing is sharing everything because they know what they did is their business. And I'm not taking away from them by applying it to my topic or my business. Even if we're in the same topic, I'm going to do it differently. They're going to do it differently. We don't need to be afraid of each other. We can actually grow from each other and push the boundaries and just become that much better. When you have a friend and you're both succeeding, It's like, all right, now here and now here. And it's a positive, like, push. It's not a jealousy thing. It's, uh, wow, you did that? I want to figure out how to do that. And because I want to experience that opportunity to have that impact the way you're having that impact. And that's really key, isn't it?

Absolutely. It's, it's been one of the most refreshing things about entering this new landscape of being a professional speaker is how willing and selfless and unselfish and caring and respectful so many of the other speakers are. I mean, it's— I was— I don't know why I was shocked. I had no reason to assume it'd be otherwise, but I just think it's been amazing how much people give back. That was one of my favorite parts about being in the coaching fraternity. Many of the old-school coaches, I mean, they would sit down with each other and exchange tips on recruiting, exchange plays, exchange— even if they're gonna play that person twice that upcoming season, they know, hey, They can go get this play if they scout us anyway, so why don't I just share it with them and let's talk about why we run it and everybody gets better. It takes tremendous confidence to kind of take off your armor and share everything. For me, I'm 42 years old. I have the humility to know I didn't invent anything in the speaking industry. I mean, this is all stuff that I'm going to be learning from others, either interactions with folks like you or reading a book or attending an NSA conference. So if I'm learning it from someone else, It's not for mine to hold on to. I'll pass that down to someone else. If in a few years someone reaches out to me that's just starting in the professional speaking business and they'd love some tips or some advice, I'd be honored to give it to them because other people did that for me. It's not really ours to hold on to. Again, with our theme, I think that's showing respect not only to the person you're dealing with, but a respect to the industry, a respect to the profession and the craft of speaking that we should all be here to help each other. At the end of the day, you're going out to speak to make an impact, to help companies improve their culture and improve respect, which will make this world a better place. So why would I not be rooting for you? Why would I not want you out there doing your thing, making this world a better place? Because that's what I'm trying to do. I don't have that mentality that it's you versus me. Yeah, there might be some times where we, other speakers in the business, we're going up for the same gig. And you lose out, but that's okay. There's so much business out there, and it just simply means that you weren't a right fit. It would never come down to, I shared something with you, you put it in place, and now they want you instead of me. That just— the chances of that happening is almost zero.

Yeah, it's incredibly slim. That's correct. What's a book that has had a massive impact on you on your own journey?

Well, from a basketball standpoint, I'm a Coach K fan. I'm a diehard Mike Krzyzewski Duke basketball fan, and he's written several books, but one called Leading with the Heart is one that I love. He also wrote one called Gold Standard. Those were written for the business world, but obviously through the lens of one of the best basketball coaches in history, so there's a lot of transfer and crossover there. I don't know if you know Phil Jones. I know we run in similar circles, but Phil wrote a book called Exactly What to Say, which is not as much a book as it is kind of a guide or a handbook on how powerful terminology is. If you go back and look at at the way that he chooses to phrase and position certain statements, it all comes from a position of being very respectful. I met earlier with another friend of ours, Ian Altman, a tremendous speaker. He has a book called Same Side Selling, which talks about not looking at you versus me when you're selling to someone, but you and me, and let's work together to solve a problem. Those are 3 just off the top of my head that I love.

That's perfect. And we'll include those in the show notes for everyone listening. Alan, I want to thank you for joining us. It's been wonderful.

Thank you so much. I enjoyed it as well.

Absolutely. For all of our listeners, remember you can find Alan at alansteinjr.com. That's critically important. alansteinjr.com. You can reach out to him there, get a hold of him. We'd love to hear your questions, your thoughts, and your ideas, and the best place to leave those with us is on our Facebook page at facebook.com/MutuallyAmazingPodcast. Of course, you can always contact us on our website at mutuallyamazingpodcast.com. Remember to subscribe to this show so you automatically get it every week. And if you could take one moment to leave a review, that really helps other people find the show, which we are greatly appreciative of. So, thank you so much for joining us. May you make today and every day a life full of mutually amazing relationships.