In this episode of the Mike & Sam show, hosts Mike Domitrz and Sam Silverstein explore the role of apology in leadership. They begin with a personal anecdote about Sam’s recent conflict with a close business partner, which sparked a discussion about when a leader should admit fault, how quickly an apology should be offered, and whether apologies should be public or private. The conversation emphasizes that leaders who act as if they are never wrong become dictators, stifling creativity and trust. They argue that every spoken word carries intent, so leaders must own the impact of their language and apologize instantly when harm occurs. Public missteps require public apologies to restore credibility. The hosts also stress that apologies must be accompanied by corrective action to address the underlying behavior; otherwise, repeated apologies lose meaning. They discuss the danger of “just the way I am” excuses, highlighting the need for leaders to seek support and change harmful habits. Throughout, the tone is conversational, supportive, and occasionally admonishing, urging leaders to prioritize people over ego, foster transparent cultures, and view apologies as a tool for building trust and accountability.
Chapters
It's Friday on Mike and Sam.
You're in a party mood today, Mike.
It's Friday, right? All Fridays. I think every day should be a celebration.
But see, why exactly? Why, why can't we be excited every day? It doesn't matter what day of the week it is.
Well, I think if anything, people would be saying to me, Mike, why can't you calm down that excitement every day? So if anything—
You know, there's drugs for that, Mike.
Yeah, I like the natural high of life.
There we go. Nothing wrong with that.
But you know what? We were going to talk about something that really does impact people's energy. And that is, I'll let you go with this, Sam, because you sent this to me. You sent me a text today and I thought, well, that looks great, but I don't know what sparked you to send that text. So, why don't you—
Well, it's kind of interesting. So, I had a call with a, with a really close friend and business partner a few days ago. And we were on the phone for 2 hours and it got pretty heated. And it's kind of like we, I think we both let it escalate. But it doesn't matter what he did. All that matters is I had opportunities where I could have backed off and I didn't. And I didn't feel good about it. And I talked to him afterwards. And then, I talked to him again a couple of days later. And then today, for a third time, I called him and I said, look, I'm still not good with this. I'm not good with the way I acted and the way I held myself on that call. And I was wrong. And I need to apologize to you. And so, we talked it through and everything's great. And you know what? Our relationship was fine either way. But it just, it was important to me that I apologize because I did not think that I handled myself in the best possible way. And nothing that he did justifies that. So, my question is this. When does a leader admit that they were wrong? When does a leader apologize? When does a leader need to step up? And do that? Or is the leader always right?
Yeah. Well, you saw me already laugh at that one. So, and the reason I'm laughing at that is because you and I are both leaders in organizations, and we know we're not always right. And when you have a leader who thinks they're never wrong, you've got a disaster. You don't have a leader; you have a dictator. And there's a big difference in leadership and dictation. And so, if you're never wrong, you're a dictator. That, that's what that is versus being a leader. So, I love this conversation, Sam. And you and I are built the same way. We can't sit in discomfort if there's something we can do to remove it. It bothers us to know that, and so we want to remove that. And I think that leads you to apology, because otherwise you don't care about other people's feelings. You don't care how they are, how they feel when they're around you, around others. It's complete selfishness to say, well, if they have that problem, that's their problem. They chose to hear my words that way. And that's usually why people don't apologize, right? They say, well, that's their interpretation. No, you chose words.
We put it out there. That's right.
You chose words with an intention. And whenever somebody tells me, I didn't have intention behind my words, then why did you speak them? Every word we speak has an intention, either to engage a friend, either in the workplace to communicate a message, but it's intentional. And so I might have said something unintentionally, like I didn't mean for it to have that impact, but I did choose those words and I did choose that attitude. And I did choose that viewpoint. And so I have to be accountable to the choices I made that caused a need for an apology.
Yeah, you know, I find that leaders that present themselves as being perfect create an atmosphere where then their employees don't feel like that, that they're good enough, and that they feel like they have to be perfect and that they can't make a mistake. And when you create a culture in an organization where people don't feel like they can make a mistake, then they won't try anything. And so, what's going to happen? You're going to totally stifle creativity and innovation. I mean, you're cutting it off at the nub. When a leader is willing to admit their mistakes, they're also saying, you know what? I make mistakes. I'm not perfect. I don't expect you to be perfect. And the other thing they do is they create this atmosphere of transparency where we can just be honest with each other. And that way, we can fix what needs to be fixed. We can fix it faster. We can move forward faster. And when a leader has that sort of transparency, I believe they build trust with the people that they're leading. And those tighter relationships mean that you're going to build accountability inside that organization.
Absolutely. And when you have that, when you know that, you know, the question was, how soon should they apologize? Instant! There's no need to wait for an apology. If you're the one giving the apology, There's no excuse. Like people say, well, there'll be a better time for me to apologize. Oh, so they should sit in pain. They should sit in hurt because there's going to be a better time later to apologize.
Make them sweat. Come on, Mike. Let's make them sweat just a little bit. Right.
It makes no sense. And if they're like, well, it was public. Well, did you do the harm publicly? In other words, if that was in a group meeting and you did that, you should apologize right there in front of the group.
That's a great point.
Because a lot of people like to think, well, I'll do that when I'm alone with them. Oh, so everybody else got to watch you degrade them. or hurt them with your language. But now, not everybody gets to see you apologize. So there's a huge impact there. It should be public if you did it as public.
You know, and the other thing is, I used to think that there was a lot of leaders that just didn't know that they were doing this. But, and while there are some, I think there's a lot of leaders that do things they shouldn't be doing, and they know it. And they don't apologize. And you know what they do? They say, Yeah, I probably shouldn't have said that. But that's just the way that I am. And they know that's how I am. Well, that does not— you know what? I'm going to tell the district attorney that after I rob the bank. Hey, that's just the way that I am. No, that doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it right in any instant. And so, apology is important. But hopefully, as a leader, we learn that whatever that behavior is that prompted that Apology. We need to correct the root behavior so that we're not doing it over and over again, because after a while, an apology is simply not going to matter. Yeah.
If I'm working at the company or I'm in the military and somebody says, well, that's just who I am, and it's something serious, right? Like I'm mean to people, I don't care about people. I'll look them right in the eye and go, okay, you need help. Like, that's a fact. If you're telling me as a leader you don't care about others, You need help. You need support. You need someone to say, that's who I am. No, that's who you're choosing to be because you're choosing not to get support. You're choosing not to get the help that could help you to be a different person. Now, don't get me wrong. If you're wired high energy, that's one thing. You're talking about being wired to hurt, being wired to care less about others. That's a different ballgame. That's the impact on other human beings. Yeah.
And sometimes leaders just make excuses. Well, that's what we have to do to get the job done. You know, I'm bottom-line oriented. We've heard all this stuff. And that's just a pile of crap. It really is.
Yeah, because by the way, if that's what they're saying, I just need to do that to get this done, then you would have walked in and said, I don't want to have to make a quick decision, but unfortunately, we have to because of this, blah, blah, blah. And so, I've had to make this decision. You still don't have to be disrespectful. You still don't have to do anything that harms others.
Exactly. That's exactly it. It's always about valuing people. Leadership is always, you know, I say this a bazillion times. It's always every time about the people you lead. It's not about you, the leader. And so, if it means we have to adjust our behavior, if it means we have to adjust our techniques, if it means we have to adjust our words to be better, to do it right, to show people that we appreciate them, that's on us. And then, on the rare case where we mess up, Then let's apologize and let's get it out there.
Yeah, by the way, rare case? Are you kidding me? It's it's you and I, Sam. We talk every day about how we mess up some of that. Well, you know, the difference the difference is whether we mess up and it negatively impacts another person, right? That's what we're referring to here.
Absolutely.
That's the big difference there. Absolutely. What is what is wrong? What's that, Sam?
What else you got for me?
You know what? I think that's a great way to end on a Friday, right? The fact that we're gonna make mistakes, let's own it, let's apologize. But more importantly, going forward, let's be thoughtful in the moment so we don't have our mistakes be hurtful to others.
Absolutely.
And then when they are, apologize, no delay.
Absolutely.
Apologize.
Hey, listen, everybody have a great weekend. You know, you can always find us on, YouTube/Center for Respect and YouTube/SamSilverstein. We love your comments. We love your feedback. If you have ideas and things that you want to hear us talk about, leave them in the notes and we'll see you next time.
