In this unscripted conversation, Mike Domitrz and Sam Silverstein explore what it truly means to be open‑minded. They contrast genuine openness—listening to understand and consider alternatives—with superficial claims of openness that mask an agenda to win arguments. The hosts discuss how biases (e.g., judging based on appearance, education, or background) and strong pre‑existing opinions can shut down true listening. They identify personal triggers that cause the mind to close, such as the need to be right or the habit of formulating rebuttals before hearing the other side. Sam emphasizes that honoring the speaker, even when disagreeing, is essential, and that a culture lacking open‑mindedness stifles creativity and innovation. The dialogue concludes with a call to listeners to recognize their own closing triggers, practice respectful, learning‑oriented listening, and to support the show via iTunes reviews.
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Hello, everybody out there. Welcome to Mike and Sam. Uh, today we're going to discuss, are you really that open-minded? Am I really that open-minded?
I don't think so.
Really that open-minded?
No, I don't think so. I think you have an agenda actually. Why do you want to discuss this today? There's an underlying reason for that. I'm pretty sure. You want to share that with me?
Yeah. What's funny is when Sam and I talk about what we're going to discuss, he'll be like, where's it going to go? And I have no idea. That's the whole point of the conversation. So today I don't have an agenda. You're right.
Unscripted, raw. Who knows what's going to come out, right?
Sometimes we get on here and we have an agenda. Like we're thinking we want to discuss this because we've experienced this or that. But today we're just like, let's discuss this bias. Are we really open-minded? It's a term you hear a lot. People love to say I'm open-minded. Uh, how true is that? What do you think, Sam?
Oh, I'm open-minded. As long as you tell me what I want to hear.
Come on. No?
Here, you know, I'll tell you. I think some people, you know, a few days back, we talked about listening. I think people, there are some people that listen with an agenda. And I think there's some people that do listen with a total open mind. And I think it's a matter of, are you always trying to be right? Or are you trying to make your point? Or are you looking for the best alternative? Are you looking for the best decision?
Right. Are you looking for the best outcome?
I think that's part of it. And I think it's also the conversation is going to— what you hear is going to be based on what you see. And when we start judging people and we— you mentioned bias, which we could just talk about bias. We'll do that another day. But if I am valuing your opinion based on what you look like, where you're from, where you went to school, well then I'm never really going to hear you.
Yeah, well, and the other thing is, usually when we're doing it— there's been phases of my life where I did that more often, right? Where I was saying I was open-minded, but I had a strong opinion. And strong opinion doesn't mean you're not open-minded. So we want to be careful there, because you can have a strong opinion and still be willing to listen. That's the open-minded part of it, right?
Right.
But it's different when you say, I'm open-minded only to engage in argument. Only to win your argument, right? So, oh, I want to hear you so I can win, right? So I can take this debate.
Yeah, it's, it's like, you know, saying you're honest doesn't make you honest, um, right? Saying you're fast doesn't make you win the marathon. Uh, saying you're open-minded doesn't make you open-minded. But, you know, listening to you share that, I think of all the people that I've heard say that, that were not open-minded, and they think that because they say it, they are.
Yeah. Yes. And what's funny about that is— and we all can fall trap to this depending on what mood we're in, where our mindset is, right? We can fall into those traps. Uh, and what's funny about that is if you use that language in conversation, it's actually very powerful. Let's say someone you're talking to is known for not listening or not taking your ideas, and you approach them and you say Would you say that you have an open mind? And they're almost always going to say yes. Great, because I have this idea I really want to explore with you. They can't now go, well, no, we're not discussing that. You just said you have an open mind. So it's— I learned this from somebody, I think it was, oh, who was it now? He wrote such a great book. I'm just having a brain freeze right now, but it might come to me later. But he talks about words. It was just beautiful, that, that concept. Right.
However, even though I think maybe you're putting someone on the spot, they might have to be more open-minded, Mike, than they would have otherwise been. I still think their true colors are going to show through.
Oh, absolutely.
They're going to circle back to— if they don't have an open mind, they're going to be argumentative. They're not going to hear. Now, here's what happens. Not only do we have this situation that we're discussing in the moment and someone's not being open-minded and And so, you're losing out on potentially what could be a great idea. But you're also creating an environment where you basically put a big sign up on the wall that says, hey, around here, I'm not open-minded. So, it doesn't matter what you say. So now, after a while, people aren't going to share. They're not going to bring their creative thoughts. They won't be innovative. They're going to hold things in. Things will fester. And it's that attitude that shuts down conversation in any organizational culture.
Yeah, and what I want all of us to think about— this myself included— is what triggers me into a failure of open-mindedness? What sets me into closing the mind? Listening as in I'm paying attention to you, I appear to be, but I already have a preconceived without any possibility of letting you move that needle. What triggers that? And I think that's the discussion we want everybody to think about, whether you're watching this, What triggers you into closing your mind even though you're saying it's open? Because if you can catch the trigger, it allows you to take a breath and rethink and reopen the mind.
Yeah. And I think part of that comes back to this having to be right. And I think some people are amazing. They don't have to be right. They're not argumentative. They'll sit there and have a conversation with you. And then others are always argumentative. And I know that over the years, I would like to think that I've become less argumentative. I know that I had a propensity to be really argumentative because, you know, I said, well, I believe in what I'm saying. That's not the point. The point is that I can still believe in what I'm saying and not be argumentative, but it takes energy and it takes effort. On my part. And I also have to say to myself, wait a second, what's Mike trying to say? Why is he saying it? What's he trying to convey? What does it look like from his side? Why does he feel this way? If I go with his thoughts and ideas, what are the possible outcomes? And that's bringing an open mind to the conversation. It's a willingness to entertain the other thought, the other idea. And, and I think that that intent is really important in the conversation as well.
No, it's brilliant. And the idea of whether you're right has nothing to do with if they're of value, this person in front of you. So you can be right and want to hear others. In fact, if you believe you're right, you should want to hear them even more because you should want to hear how they think, like you said, where they come from, to To understand how to have a greater impact in this world with what you believe is right. You have to listen versus just, you know what it is, it's listen to respond. You and I talked about listening last week. It's listening to respond instead of listening to learn, which is a huge difference.
So, here's how I see this. You know, in life, a lot of times we say there's plus, there's minus, and then there's neutral. And I think that neutral or that middle area really doesn't exist. When we hear someone and when we're open to their ideas, we're honoring them. And when we don't, we're dishonoring them. There is no neutral.
Right.
And so to me, in any relationship, I want to honor that person whether I agree with them or not. And so it is listening with an open mind that's critical, and it's how I respond. I don't have to shoot down an idea that I'm not going to embrace. I can take it on advisement. I can think about it. I can let it percolate. But if I sit there and every time he or she says something, I have a comeback, then that is not being an open mind. That's being argumentative. And in that moment, I really truly believe I'm dishonoring that individual. You can disagree with someone and still honor them. And that's where I want to be in every conversation.
Love it. I want everybody to remember that. Let's try to honor the people we're engaging with. And that's a whole different viewpoint. Uh, but I want to make sure we also honor the voice of someone. So I've got a little something here you might see. That's iTunes. And on iTunes, Rob Bell wrote about the show, about our daily show. Yeah. And I just want to pull that up here real quick. Rob put, such a great rapport and important information to share. That is a blast to learn from them. Speaking of you and, you and I, Sam.
Oh, wow.
Thanks for your generosity of wisdom and experience. Isn't that awesome?
That's awesome. And, you know, the word that really, really— I love the word rapport. It's, you know, that speaks to a genuine relationship that we have and that hopefully is an example for others as well. And so, that means a lot to me.
Yeah. So, Rob, thank you. And by the way, everybody out there can do that. You can go on iTunes, you can leave us reviews. It really helps us.
We love it.
We love it. And we read them, obviously. We'll read them on air more often. So thank you for joining us here today on Mike and Sam. We look forward to you being with us tomorrow. Remember, we're on iTunes. There's over 15 episodes now on iTunes. So you can catch that on iTunes, Mike and Sam, Center for Respect on YouTube, or Sam Silverstein on YouTube, youtube.com/SamSilverstein. Hey, thank you for listening to us and bringing your open mind to this daily conversation.
