28: Cathy & Todd Adams discuss Respect and Parenting

Welcome to the Mutually Amazing Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Domitrz, with the Center for Respect. The episode you're about to listen to was recorded when this show used to be called the Respect Podcast, so you might hear that mentioned during this episode. Well, let's get to the show. And welcome to this episode. I'm excited to get right into it and for you to meet 2 good friends of mine. Our guests today have 3 daughters, teach self-awareness, connect through pop culture, believe in humor, and that you will— you'll get a vibe for that right away, and mindfulness, and know people can be a force for good. They are Zen Parenting Radio. That's right, it's one of my favorite podcasts, one of my favorite groups of people to be around. It's not just them, but also those who are involved with their show that go to their conferences. Just an incredible spirit and energy of people. Let's get right into you meeting my friends here.

Hi.

Todd and Kathy Adams, thanks for joining us.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us, Mike.

Absolutely. Now, you two have the show Zen Parenting Radio. You have a conference, Zen Parenting Conference. What is Zen Parenting?

Go ahead, sweetie.

I know, I always like— it takes a while for me to explain, but I'll try to do it very succinctly. Basically, Zen Parenting is our desire to practice self-awareness ourselves first And then to present that to the world in many different ways. Obviously, first through our podcasts and also through some classes we teach. Todd is a coach. I'm a therapist. Like you said, we have a conference that we hold every year, so we get to be with a big group of people annually. Our motto of our podcast is the best predict— predictor of a child's well-being is a parent's self-understanding. And so we try to support people And having self-understanding, obviously to benefit their life for their own well-being, but also because then that's how they present in their family. That's how they present in the world. And it also helps them when we have us, when we have self-awareness, we then have more empathy and compassion for others. So it's kind of this domino effect. Once you have self-understanding and self-awareness, it creates a whole different dynamic and energy with people.

And inward instead of outward. So it's not a how-to podcast, not whether or not you want to put your kid in a timeout or discipline your kid for drinking early. Literally, it's about conversations with our kids and role modeling the behavior that we want to see. That's the bottom line.

I've always loved that model of yours. When you first said it, when I was being interviewed with you now several years back, being on your show, I was like, oh, I wish I was that intelligent when I was a younger parent, when my kids were younger, that I thought of it that way versus how do I do the right thing, how do I tell them to do the right thing, how do I give them the— versus that self-awareness. It's such a beautiful concept. How does one's own respect for themselves play into that? You know, we're the Respect Podcast. How does respect play into that first understanding the role of self-awareness in parenting?

It actually takes a minute for us to even figure out what it means to be a parent, because I think the way our society views parenting is that we're somehow in constant teacher mode and that there's a hierarchy of us looking down on our kids, telling them what to do, explaining to them how life works. And the interesting thing is, is if we step back from that kind of role, you know, I'm putting that in quotes, that thing that we're told to do, we recognize that we all come into the world with a certain knowing already, that we actually come in with a lot of great instinct and intuitive thought and an understanding of who we are, and that as a parent, really our job is not to be telling our kids about who to be or telling them about who they are, what they should do. but it's supporting them as they become who they are because they already had that instinct. You know, kind of like a tree that's a seed and then it knows to become a tree. It's the same thing with our kids, but unless we understand that in ourselves first and trust that we have this awareness and that we are a unique individual, that we're special, no more special than anybody else, but special in our own right, if we trust that in ourselves and know that about ourselves, then it's a lot easier to allow our kids— to grow up that way.

Well, and I think our, um, you know, we learned how to parent from our parents, and some of our parents did a brilliant job and some lacked some skills. And what we try to do is take what we learned from them, take the good stuff and discard the bad stuff. One thing that we did learn from our parents, most of us, is like the idea of discipline. And Kathy and I are bigger fans of discussion instead of discipline. So that doesn't mean that let your kids walk all over you, but It's all about conversation and what energy are you bringing to it. So we're big fans of having a conversation as opposed to punitive consequences because a kid made a mistake.

Well, and it's actually, it's just relearning what discipline means because discipline actually means to teach. You know, it comes from the word disciple and we've kind of lost track of what discipline means and that we can teach through role modeling. We can teach through allowing our kids to to have experiences and feel pain and build resilience and fail occasionally and take risks. Like, we can teach by allowing and— but also supporting along the way. I think sometimes it's like the pendulum swings so far, you know. Sometimes we're either like— we're either authoritarian or we're completely in charge, or we're completely permissive and our kids walk all over us. And like Todd said, it's this place in between. Where we let them be who they are, but we also support them in the process of becoming who they are.

Can you give an example of— I can imagine a few people thinking, yeah, but, you know, if I'm just going to have a discussion, there's going to be certain children that know how to push boundaries or know how to have the discussion in a way that they're running the show, even though they appear to be agreeing with everything. Can you give us an example of a real-life situation where You're having that discussion and parents are enforcing boundaries, where both can take place together.

Absolutely, and I think they always do. And, you know, it's sometimes just our— when Todd and I focus a lot on conversation and discussion, and one of our big pillars is communication, but there's always boundaries set up around that. There's always expectations that, like, I'll— you know, one example that I can give, 'cause we talk about it a lot, is Education, school, because there's a lot of pressure right now on kids around school. Our kids know, like Todd and my— our 3 daughters know that school is an expectation. It's something that they need to show up for. It's something that they, in their best of their ability, they bring their best selves to. Now, if they're sick, then they don't. You know, that's— they get— they stay home because they're— that's where they are in that moment. But the expectation is if they are well, they go to school. The expectation is that they do homework.

Mm-hmm.

And, the expectation is that when there's a test, they study. That's our boundary. Now, how they do that, when they do that, that is a discussion and negotiation and a communication. There are some things that just are, and these are things that they've been raised on, things that they've heard since they were very little. And so, it's been integrated, education is important, but they also know that we understand that They're doing their best is very different than what grade they bring home.

Well, and it's not a one-size-fits-all. Some kids like to study right when they get home from school. Other kids like to blow off some steam because they've spent the last 7 hours at school, and then they like to study after dinner. So it's really kind of meeting the kid where they are. But the other thing that we focus on is not necessarily the grades, but the process. And when I say the process, it means you show up for school, You get a good night's sleep, you do your homework, and whether or not you get a 60% on the test or a 95% on the test, as long as you did your best, then we're happy with it. Now, if they're failing out, then yeah, we probably need to look at some things and get the kids some more support. But we kind of have— I don't want to call it a hands-off approach, but it's a different approach.

When Todd and I just had parent-teacher conferences in the last couple weeks for 2 of our girls, and what we're always hoping to hear is They're a good team leader or they're good on a team, like they're a good player, like they're good at listening, they respect authority, they have an understanding, they speak up for themselves. How do they effectively work in a system like that? Because that's really what life is because once you get a job, nobody's giving you an A or a B or a C. It's how do you effectively work in a system. So, you can see how all of that necessitates discussion and communication for our kids to understand.

So, I love the idea of setting this foundation. For parents who are listening and thinking, hey, I already have a 13-year-old and I didn't think of discipline this way and I realized maybe it would have been more helpful, how do you suddenly do that? Like, your daughters were raised in that environment. How do you suddenly shift and have the kids buy in?

We hear that a lot, like, oh, if I only knew this or adopted this type of philosophy, My advice would be you wanna lean into it. So if you make some significant shifts without any warning at all, like, oh, I'm gonna start parenting this way instead of that way, the kid's probably gonna be like, who are you and what have you done with my parents? So you do want to tend to lean into making some changes because if you turn the kid's world upside down in parenting philosophy, the kid's probably not gonna buy into it.

And what are those shifts? Maybe you've been talking and lecturing and teaching a lot, and so you start listening more.

Mm-hmm.

Maybe when they come home and they say something that you would originally have thought of that was disrespectful, you become curious about it and you ask a question like, why would you say that? Or what are you feeling? Or, you know, maybe even apologizing if they really say, you hurt my feelings this morning, or I'm angry at you. I think the big shift that Todd is talking about is that you are seeing your child instead of as someone that you're like training or as someone that you have to constantly teach, you're starting to see them as an individual in their own right. Right. And how do we have relationship with people regardless of who their role is in our life? We listen, we respect, um, we honor, we respond with respect. And so it's just starting to develop a new kind of communication and that shifts all the dynamics of the relationship.

Well, one of my favorite quotes is one that I stole from my friend John Duffy. He wrote a book. I don't know what's the name of his book.

The Available Parent.

The Available Parent. Parent from a place that when your kids are adults, do— are they gonna wanna come home for Thanksgiving dinner? And for, for me, that kinda cuts through all the BS of school and sports and first place versus second place. Like, it's about relationships. And that's what Kathy and I tend to focus on more is, is this relationship being taken care of? And are— is this kid gonna wanna come home for Thanksgiving dinner? Or, or when they think about me, are they thinking about just me kind of dropping the hammer and disciplining them left and right.

Well, and the— what I'll add to that is what that looks like on a daily basis. Do you have your kids' back? And a lot of times when I say that to parents, they'll say, well, I can't let them get away with things, or then they'll take advantage of me, or then they'll take advantage of other people. And that's not really true. The way that people— when people change, it's because they're accepted and because they have space and room and a relationship that they feel really supported in, and then they have this ability to change. People do not change when we use shame and fear and guilt. That is not how people then change behaviors. It may change it in the moment, like you shame them and maybe they do start studying, but in the long run—

Yeah.

They didn't really learn anything. What they learned is to feel bad about themselves, and it also damages the relationship between you And them. And so, like, to Todd's point about coming home at Thanksgiving, do they feel like you're someone who has their back? And you can have boundaries and expectations and also have your kids' back. These are not— they are not like opposing things. You actually can do that together, but it takes practice, constant practice.

I love the do you have their back and do they feel that. Like, parents will say, yes, I know I have my kids' back. The kid might not feel that. And so that's an important discussion that is so powerful there. And a lot of what you do with Zen Parenting is also self-care. So what, in your mind, what is self-care for parents?

If you are somebody who doesn't get any sleep and doesn't do any exercise and is watching the news on a constant basis and completely fear-inducing, it's no wonder that when your kid challenges you, because our kids challenge us on a daily basis, If we're on an empty tank, we're probably not going to have a lot of capacity for empathy and compassion and connection. Your kids are two; it means you're probably sleep deprived. But if your kids are twelve, you could probably do something to make sure that you're filling your own tank, whether it be you know self care, meditation, exercise, sleeping. For me, it's just if I'm annoyed going into a conversation and I'm tired and I'm exhausted, it's really tough for me to stay. above the line, and it's very easy for me to drop below. So it's just about having as close to maybe a half or 3/4 of a tank versus being empty.

Well, you can't be patient if you're feeling overwhelmed all the time. If you— you can't have a conversation that is impactful. When I'm teaching this, I always talk about like a glass of water. If you are a glass of water and you want to give to other people, you have to keep your glass full, or like Todd said, at least half full. You know, we're not perfect, Because if you're already empty, you have nothing to give. There's no water to offer to the person next to you. And so it's— and I know that they— it can sound just very cliché, but if we really live that, if we practice that, I have to take care of myself to take care of you. Like the 2 things I say to moms all the time is that if you feel like you don't have 5 minutes for either quiet time or meditation or stillness, whatever you wanna call it, If you don't have 5 minutes, then you need to take 30 minutes for it because that's how busy your life has become, is that you have to start kind of breaking down that belief system that you don't have time.

What's interesting about all this is, um, because we're parents and we brought these kids into this world, we think that they should always come first at the expense of everything. And sometimes at the expense of ourselves, and sometimes it's at the expense of our relationship with our partner. When I'm coaching guys, I try to tell them, take care of yourself first. And then invest in your, uh, relationship with your partner second, and your kids come third. And there's so many people that have blowback on me because they think that's upside down, but there's no way that you can give to your partner unless you're first giving to yourself. And there's no way that you're gonna teach your daughters how to have a good husband or relationship, or relationship, if you are not role modeling what it means to be in a good relationship with your partner. So I kinda like to flip things upside down in that way.

Look, the kids don't exist without your relationship.

Yeah.

And that's one thing that a lot of people forget. So even if somebody goes, what if I'm divorced? Still, they're watching that relationship.

Yes.

Right? In that divorce and that separation, they're still watching that relationship, and they are watching how it's being role-modeled. When people go apart, how does that work? How do you treat each other? Also, I think a lot of times we know this about kids, especially like in divorce, They can feel the parents' anger or frustration with each other. They can blame themselves.

Yes.

Which is really unfair. So if I'm creating a better, healthy relationship with— if I'm divorced, if I have an ex— with that ex, there's less possibility my kids are blaming themselves for whatever tension could have been there otherwise. So yeah, I think that's really important that you brought that up, Todd. So I appreciate that. Thank you.

Well, and our kids have a default setting of always taking the blame. You know, I'm the product of a divorce. My parents got divorced when I was a young person. I blame myself for sure. And unless you're explicitly and deliberately role modeling that this has nothing to do with them, like they would say, this has nothing to do with you. And you know what I got out of this? I got, this has everything to do with me. So that is a tricky little thing. So.

Well, and it's that constant communication about it. Like, and I know the word constant sounds like, can sound daunting, but everything can be discussed. Like, you know, sometimes I say to the girls, everything is figureoutable. And I don't mean everything is going to be perfect or that it's going to be painless, but everything can be discussed. Everything is on the table. Like, you know, what you do for a living, Mike, you know, talking about, you know, sex and sexuality and consent and healthy relationships. Like, these should be things we're talking about all the time. Yet we tend to focus on things that are, are more surfacey, you know, like getting the right grade or what, what, how much money are you going to make or are you the captain of this? And on those—

Yeah.

Those things can be beautiful too, but what's really going to help our children thrive is being able to talk about the difficult things and having people at home they can talk about that with. Like, the reason that therapy works— like, you know, as a therapist, people will say, why does therapy even work? It's very magical in that way, just being able to express something. So having that communication between the parents, like you said, regardless of the status of their relationship, and then between parents and kids is essential.

And you two are friends, so I've gotten to see you, you know, offstage, behind the scenes, and I know that you're very in touch with the world. You both feel the world. You know, some people don't. They're able to compartmentalize the world, but you two both feel it. And with everything that's been happening over the last several years in our world, what are your grounding forces for you to be able to manage the negativity and be able to have that glass at least half full?

To balance out the, you know, the new— what I always say is the news is not the news, and I'm talking about what— when you turn on the 6 o'clock news, your local or whatever, one of the— one of the networks, the news is not the news. It's the 10 worst stories of the day. So I get my news based on, you know, I check my phone once a day for about 5 or 10 minutes just to kinda know what's going on so I'm not an idiot. But other than that, and there's, you know, sometimes I have guys that I coach and They have their Fox or their CNN or the MSNBC on for hours and hours a day, and it's no wonder that's going to impact your character. So there's so many— all you gotta do is Google good news stories and you could find it, but it's not going to be on the 6 o'clock news. So you have to take one extra step and simply go, you know, you could— if you're on Facebook, you can find so many pages that are uplifting. So that doesn't mean it's just the good stuff and none of the bad stuff is out there.

I agree with Todd. I try— like, I actually curate my Instagram and my Facebook feed, so I see a lot of good things that are happening. And there's actually a lot of people making change every single day. And it doesn't even have to be grand change— in their own homes, in their own communities, you know, with their partner. And also, you know, the truth of it is, I cry a lot. You know, I feel— like you said, I feel things that are happening. I struggle with it. But I have an emotional response to it that I think is appropriate. And I talk about it with Todd. I talk about it with professionals. I talk about it with friends. And what I try and use that energy, that anger or that fear, is to do what can we do?

Mm-hmm.

What can I do today to make an impact? How can I be kinder to myself first, to Todd, to my children, to people at the school, to my clients? How can I turn this experience that we're all having in the world right now into something meaningful rather than Taking it in and then projecting it out like blame. And then just the basic things, you know, both Todd and I need to move every day. I do yoga, he does yoga and plays basketball. We— I meditate, I write in a journal every single morning. I really do, um, you know, the whole mindfulness thing. I mind my mind.

Well, and it's a muscle you have to flex. Like, you can't just decide once a month, okay, I'm going to focus on the good, or I'm going to work out once a month. This is just like anything else. If you want to see results, you have to build it into your Day-to-day habits. It doesn't mean you miss a day here and miss a day there, but compassion, empathy, self-understanding— it's a muscle that you have to practice. You can't just pick and choose the moments. You got to do your best to build it into your daily practice.

Well, and I love that you brought up, Kathy, that, you know, I cry. I, I think so often nowadays when people are feeling all this stress, they're actually turning to numbing activities instead of acknowledgement activities. To cry is to acknowledge the pain. And to say that this is okay, that, that I'm, that I'm feeling this because I'm human, right? So it's okay to own these emotions, uh, as long as, like you said, there's a healthy level of reaction, right? There could be unhealthy, right? If somebody is out of control sobbing and they're— that's controlling their day, that's controlling their ability to, to operate as a human being, that's a different discussion. But to say that it's okay to cry about this thing, this item, this news, this whatever's happening, is healthy because then I'm actually not running from it. I'm not numbing, which is what people often do. And I also love that you brought up, hey, and whether it's I speak to someone professionally, 'cause I think a lot of times people think, oh, well, you're a therapist, you're a counselor, you don't need a therapist or a counselor. But what I find is my friends that are therapists and counselors all use therapists and counselors because—

You bet.

That's respecting the understanding the role that plays in your life. Why would you expect people to come to you if you think you're so perfect you don't need to come down to anyone else?

Well, and I actually, I teach at a few universities here around Chicago and my students are social work students. And that's always the first thing I tell them them is if you are going to teach wellness and talk to people about wellness, and you will be honored by hearing other people's stories, you have to make sure you are taking care of yourself and using your own professionals in whatever way that shows up. It can be, you know, it can be coaching, it can be a therapist, but— or supervision. But you have to, you know, you have to be what you are asking other people to be. You know, we can't just go out in the world as professionals and be like, I got it all together. All of you people have issues. We all are having some kind of emotional expression. And I hope that the world is making me cry right now because I don't want to be indifferent to what's going on. You know, this is— and like you said, there is some limit. You know, I have to take care of myself in that process. I'm not falling apart constantly, but it's essential that I stay feeling in this world.

Yeah. And you need to express that emotion because if you don't, it'll get stuck. And we— Kathy and I were just listening to a Brené Brown interview. And she talked about, hey, if we could just eliminate the bad and just have the good, that would be great, but that's not the way human beings work. Like if you numb out one side or compartmentalize one side, then you by default have to compartmentalize the other side. So in other words, you have to feel those feelings and you know, I—

If you want joy.

If you want joy, you're not— you need to be brave enough to feel the pain and as a guy and I work with a lot of guys, that's not necessarily the easiest thing to do, but no, I mean— Kind of what you and Kathy are talking about. In my opinion, everybody needs either a coach or a therapist or a good friend that's going to challenge and support them and help them work things out with one another. And as a middle-aged man, I know that that is kind of the exception for a lot of the guys that I work with.

Well, and Kathy, you brought up, you know, you are a therapist, you do work with individuals. And a couple times, Todd, you've brought up working with men and we didn't dive into that. What is the men's work you're referring to?

I am a life coach for men. I coach them in relationships with their spouses, with their kids. I came back from a golf weekend. Kathy asked me how it was. I said, great. She said, how are the guys? And I spent 3 days with these men and none of us knew anything that was going on in each other's lives other than our golf swing, our fantasy football, and how many beers we drank. And I decided I wanted to change that and have authentic conversations with other men. And I started that about 7 or 8 years ago and it's something that It's one of my missions is to kind of heal the masculine energy out there because there's a lot of negative masculine energy out there and there's a lot of wonderful, beautiful, vulnerable masculine energy out there and I'm just trying to cultivate some of the latter.

Well, and I think it's an important discussion how authentic our friendships are and how mutual they are because that can play— I know we started this all off with parenting, but all this plays into parenting because the self-awareness element you started us with Which is so important. And one thing that Karen and I discuss more and more in life is, are we enveloping ourselves with mutual friendships?

Yes.

Is this where I'm the one always reaching out, I'm the one sharing, but I'm not getting sharing back, and you feel cheated?

Yes.

And I don't mean that they need to reach out as much as I do, because maybe Karen and I are both those gatherers. We like to bring people together. And they're not. So I get that. We understand that. But if I feel I'm giving and I'm not— somebody's not giving back, you feel like this is not a mutual relationship. And so much in life, we forget to evaluate our friendships and go, is this mutual? Yeah, because we're not really pushing each other. It's just one-lane venting if it's not mutual, potentially.

Well, and I'll even open up a can of worms. Like, even with family, like, we feel like we are obligated, you know, let's say for example that I would go to a family member's house for 4 days for Christmas, and we think that because we're family members, we gotta spend 4 days, 24 hours, 7 days a week. And what Kathy and I talk about, because there's a lot of people that struggle with family and extended family, is setting up healthy boundaries. And we've done multiple podcasts about how to set up healthy boundaries, and that goes with whether it's extended family or with friends. And that's—

Well, and it doesn't mean that you, you cut people out of your life. It means that you're thoughtful about The, the amount of energy that you offer to certain relationships. And there are some people that you can spend maybe a weekend with, and there's some people that you can only do a couple hours, you know, and you have to really recognize the difference. Again, to your point, Mike, it really is all about self-awareness. And what Todd and I have found is the more that we've done this work in the world, or the more that we've been able to kind of find in ourselves a better sense of understanding, you start to find other people show up in your life who are similar. And it doesn't mean— and so it's kind of like a like attracts like thing. And it doesn't mean that our friendships from the past aren't important because Todd and I have amazing friends from high school and college that we adore. But you start to find relationships that maybe are more similar now to where our life is now than it was when we were 18.

Find the people in your life that fill up your cup.

I had a consultant I worked with who became a friend, and I always looked at what he said. What's the energy before, during, and after you're with that person or that couple?

Yep.

Because all 3 matter, right? If you don't— before you get there, you're always like, uh, but then it goes well, there's still something not right there. If when you're with them it doesn't feel right but you're good afterwards, something's off. Especially when you're done, when you leave, are you energized? You're like, oh, I want to be with them, I can't wait to see Is it that kind of energy? If it's not, man, time is limited, so why don't you spend it somewhere else? Like, it's okay, you know, to say. And, and what I love about you two is also you find the humor in moments and you value the humor in relationships. For you, why is humor so important?

Well, I think that, that, that is how Todd and I connected initially, is, um, we met at the kind of tail end of our college experience, and we Had a very similar sense of humor, and we both also kind of— we related to the world through movies and pop culture and quotes and lyrics, and we just kind of always used them in conversation. And it was— so it was kind of fun because my friends knew that about me, but they weren't always like that. But then I met Todd, and that's how we would talk, and we still do. We talk in movie quotes a lot around this house. And we also— it's the way that When he and I are having a discussion or we're struggling, we can have a moment where he says something funny or I say something, not in a disrespectful way, but just to kind of deflate, you know, is that the right word? Deflate, decrease the energy.

Yeah, you pull pain out of the energy of the situation. And, you know, parenting 3 daughters, there's plenty of opportunities for us to kind of fly off the handle. And what we try to do is check in with ourselves and, you know, like maybe Yelling isn't the best idea. And instead, maybe we can kind of make a joke, like a nice joke, but a joke just to kind of— because we all— I don't think anybody wants to fight. And usually when people want to fight, they're lost in ego anyways. Most of us want to get along. And humor is such an underrated, understated way of kind of taking a little bit of the air out of the balloon.

And, you know, one thing that I want to be very clear about is Todd and I don't make jokes about each other. We make jokes about a situation.

Right.

So, you know, a lot of people when they hear humor, they think, oh, I'm gonna make fun of you, or I'm going to focus, focus on your flaws and make light of them. We don't go after each other like that. It's more about the situation. You know, there's a tension in the situation, and if we can say something lighthearted to kind of keep us awake, because that's really what you're doing when you're having a conversation, is sometimes we fall almost— when I say fall asleep, I don't mean literally. But I mean, we go into kind of autopilot mode and we start to pull up things from our past, or we start to respond like a 20-year-old or a 13-year-old. Like we kind of, we, we almost fall asleep and we're not our mature adult selves. And so Todd and I use humor to make sure we're present and to make sure that we, again, we remember who we're talking to. You know, I always say that Todd is my most important friend in the world. And so even though he can also frustrate me the most because I depend on him so much and that we have such a— You know, we have such an important relationship, so obviously we get most disappointed by the people we love the most too, right? Because they were— we're so emotionally connected to them. But I, I never want to forget that he's my most important person, so I want to treat him that way and not make him be some kind of punching bag for me that he has to stand there and take negativity.

Well, and you could take that same example, like some, you know, we've all been there at the amusement park or the department store of A parent just screaming at their kid, like, this is the person that you brought into this world.

Speaking of humor movies, I know you two, because anybody listens to your podcast also knows you two cite movies or mainstream entertainment lines, that it's not uncommon at all that you'll play a clip. It's great. So Star Wars or Wizard of Oz?

Oh, it's such an interesting question.

Well, Mike, you know my answer is of course Wizard of Oz because it's like the best Like hero's journey ever. And I know that—

No, it's not actually.

I know Luke's is a hero's journey too. Well, you know what, it's almost not fair because for me, seeing Dorothy's experience, The Wizard of Oz, we didn't get to see a lot of girls' and women's journeys, right? And so for me, it woke me up to my own because I kind of had to go through my whole, you know, childhood watching men and boys have experience, which I can relate to. It's not that I felt completely detached, but I To watch her experience as a young girl really woke me up.

It's a great answer, sweetie, but Star Wars was actually the correct answer.

What a great example of husbandry showing who's right.

That's right. He's like, I win. I win. Bottom line.

So there's no right or wrong. So are you gonna— are you gonna explain now, Todd, why Star Wars is yours?

No, I don't need to have rationale for my arguments, Mike. I can just decide it.

All right. And on that note, what a wonderful way to end. Thank you to both for an awesome, awesome discussion. On our show notes, we're going to be providing people links to all your social media links and to the books you recommend, Untethered Soul, Mating in Captivity, Before Happiness. We're going to provide all those links. What's the one website where they can get you? Is that zenparentingradio.com?

Yep, that's the one.

That's what I thought. So anybody listening, it's zenparentingradio.com. You've been listening to Todd and Kathy Adams, 2 amazing people. And 2 wonderful friends. So thank you both for joining us.

Thank you, Mike.

Thank you, Mike.

This week's question of the week is, Mike, how do I respond when someone shares very difficult or painful news with me? And the past, what people did is they tend to go, oh, I'm so sorry. And it comes off as a pity thing versus empathy and understanding, which is what we want to do in those moments. Or we try to make it like, oh, it's gonna be okay, which almost ignores what they're feeling. We don't want to do either of those things. Here's a simple thing you can do when somebody shares something difficult with you. Simply respond with, thank you so much for sharing. That's it. Thank you so much for sharing. Now, if this is a survivor sharing with me of sexual assault, sexual violence, I'm going to say, thank you for sharing. Clearly you are strong or you're courageous. What can I do to be of support of you? So depending on what someone's sharing with you, you might say, thank you for sharing. How can I best be of support? That's very powerful. Let them lead the conversation. You might start by just saying, thank you for sharing, and see where that goes. Do you know what I would love? I would love to hear your answer to this week's question of the week. So would you please answer what your answer would have been if you were asked that question today on the show? All you do is go to our Facebook page. We have a special group where we have these discussions and share with us what would your answer have been to this week's question of the week? And if you take a moment, post us a new question for future episodes. What question would you like to hear me answer on an upcoming episode? We'd love to hear your questions, your thoughts, and your ideas. And the best place to leave those with us is on our Facebook page at facebook.com/MutuallyAmazingPodcast. Of course, you can always contact us on our website at mutuallyamazingpodcast.com. Remember to subscribe to this show so you automatically get it every week. And if you could take one moment to leave a review, that really helps other people find the show, which we are greatly appreciative of. So thank you so much for joining us. May you make today and every day a life full of mutually amazing relationships.