29: Scott Lesnick reveals his experience with "Kidjacked"

Welcome to the Mutually Amazing Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Domitrz, with the Center for Respect. The episode you're about to listen to was recorded when this show used to be called the Respect Podcast. So, you might hear that mentioned during this episode.

Well, let's get to the show. This week's guest is my friend, Scott Lesnick, a fellow professional speaker and author of 2 books. Scott believes that respect given can often brighten someone's day, make them smile, and it's easy to do. So Scott, thank you so much for being on this week.

Mike, thanks so much. It's wonderful to be on the show. I'm a fan of it, and now I get to speak live. That's exciting.

Well, we're thrilled you're on here. And for everyone listening, Scott is most known for your memoir, Kid-Jacked: A Father's Story, and it's all about what actually happened to you, what you experienced of having your own children hijacked to another country. It's an amazing experience of really, what do you want to say, determination and discipline and never giving up. Just an incredible story. But you then teach people how to do that when they're feeling like their lives are being hijacked with your book Lifejacked, correct?

That is correct. There's just all sorts of lessons that I learned along the way, the hard way, either business-wise or in my personal life, as you mentioned. And I was able to take some of those lessons and create presentations that really help professionals, either personally or professionally, take a look at what's going on and come up with ways to destress, work better, grow communications, and all do it in usually and hopefully a respectful manner.

Scott, how does respect play into the whole experience you went through?

That's a great question. The first thing it did is I was so grateful. down when my kids were kidnapped, kidjacked, and I didn't know exactly what to do. One thing I did know is that if I treated anyone and everyone that I came across with respect, because I figured to myself, I never know who's going to have a nugget of information that's going to be able to help me move forward. Instead of curling up into a ball and giving up, I decided to do the opposite. I wanted to focus on myself staying strong so I could be strong for my kids and And figure out how to get them home, which I was able to do. I came up with a crazy plan that worked, but it all had to do with taking care of myself, respecting myself, and respecting others because I knew that those people, whoever they are, they were going to have nuggets that would help move me forward or show me a path definitely not to go down.

Yeah, because you have a very difficult challenge in what you were dealing with, and I mentioned it briefly for everyone listening, but you had your So they are the parent of the children taking them to another country, which makes getting them back home out of another country a whole other nightmare of level of difficulty. And so you had to team up with other people to make this happen. I mean, you had to go through, I would guess, I mean, I know you well, so a million channels just to make this happen, correct?

I did. And because there were no signed international laws at the time, it's called the Hague Convention on International Aspects of Child Abduction, because that treaty hadn't been signed There was no obligation for my wife at the time to return our kids. So we were in major doo-doo, and I was dealing with people in this country and in other countries. It wasn't so much just respect, but it was listening to what they had to say without interrupting and really just giving them the time, because sometimes people would be repeating themselves— not themselves, but repeating information that I had already heard. And I thought, you know what? Maybe they're going to have something else to say at the end. So just be quiet, respect their time, and listen. And that was a real test for me because I didn't have as much patience as I wanted to at that time.

Well, you're walking right into the question that I love to ask, which you've mentioned, you know, I really want to respect them. I wanted to hear them out. What does respect mean to you, Scott?

To me, respect has to do with admiration. And that there's somebody who has a quality or who's achieved something that makes me respect them. But on a level beneath that, if we go to more of the verb, admiring somebody deeply or whatever, I just look at it as respect does go around. I look at respect And kindness, at least as close cousins, and the ability to be friendly and generous and considerate to somebody, it gets us a long way in life. And I've learned that as easy as a smile or letting somebody in when they want to get in front of you when you're driving, all these things, it takes the heat off of us and off of me and oftentimes makes somebody else's life just a little bit better. So to me, respect is all about just, you know, treating people nicely. But also, if there's folks— I mean, let's be honest, one of the people who mentored me and helped me in this business was you. I have a great deal not only of respect for what you did for me when I was coming up in the ranks, but what you've done for others, for tens of thousands of others. So I look at people that I want to emulate and respect for my business and my life, and I've been doing that my entire life. I've been looking at other and going, what does she have or what does he have that I can use to make the person I am better?

Well, thank you for that, Scott. I do appreciate that. I remember when you were first talking with me and you would ask me, hey, Mike, who are the people that you think are great speakers? Then I shared with you and soon you were at their events watching them. Not only do you ask questions and want to learn, but you implement. You put into action that learning, which is wonderful because a lot of people ask those questions and not act on them. And you take the action. You respect your journey and your goal enough to say, I'll take the actions needed to get to the accomplishment I want to get to.

You're right. But like any journey or anything that somebody starts new, which I did, I started at the bottom. I respected those around me. I respected the process. I was mentored by wonderful people that did not have to help me and they chose to. And that reminded me of how important we are to one another. And that's allowed me to, with ease, give back, whether it's as a speaker, an advisor, or just as a friend or confidant, because so many people have helped me along my journey from being a kid to adulthood and a couple of hiccups along the way.

And so you mentioned admiration, and when a lot of people hear the word admiration, they think that is a reference to somebody having to earn respect. Now, knowing that I know you the way I do, I don't think you mean that. I think you'll give all human beings dignity and respect. They don't have to earn it. Is that, is that true?

It is true. It's something that I have been practicing for decades, and I need several more lifetimes to really master, even if I can do it then, because as a human being, I I still struggle at being respectful every time, admiring the fact that we're all just making it every day and getting out of bed and leaving the house and doing what it takes to be a human being. But I do agree, absolutely. I look at every individual as a human being, a good person. If you show me otherwise, I have the ability to walk away too.

Well, and I love that you say that, that this is an ongoing journey, because I think sometimes when Someone listens to a show, an interview, they think, oh, this person's got it all down. No, it's an ongoing challenge and journey. And how do you— do you think there's a difference between respect at school, the office, or home, or is it all the same?

It's different and it's the same. Respect should be given to anyone at any age. If you're 6 months old Or 106 or anywhere in between, respect should be given to you. However, it shows itself differently. Respect at school is different than respect at the office. Respect at the office is sometimes different than respect at home. It doesn't mean that— We put on different masks when we leave our house. So when you're at the office, you might have on your office mask that's a respectful person, but this is who you are and you're fitting into the Office lifestyle and so forth. When you're a kid at school and you leave home, you have to put on a mask to survive in that environment too. You're very popular; you're not as popular. So we're always looking for ways to to gain respect. I believe that at home it's the same deal, but those masks then come off, and we're allowed to be. Fully ourselves to show respect, which I think it's the easiest, is at home because I kind of know what to expect at home with my family. But once you walk out the door, you never know what's going to come up.

What did the essence of respect be that, that what you're describing that I feel at home, and some people don't feel that at home at all. It can be the worst at home depending on the environment that they have at home. Let's say that home is where you can be yourself. Is it the essence of respecting ourselves where that no matter where I am, I am that person? The essence. I'm not saying we're there or that it's easy to get to. I always find it amazing when I meet someone that no matter where they are, I know they're going to be who they are. Like, they don't care about adapting because they know who they are. I have a— to me, that's really powerful.

It's extremely powerful. I hear what you're saying, and I love that because it's true, and I do know people like that. No matter where you see them, they are. And to me, that is such a freeing, natural, beautiful thing to see. And I have to be honest, as I always hear, I struggle with that sometimes. If I'm surrounded by a room full of speakers, sometimes things go up a notch or two because that room full of speakers is going at a pretty high level and people want to talk and share and so forth. Sometimes to get up to that buzz, to that level, I need to pick up who I am almost as if I'm going to be on the stage or on the platform presenting. But if I'm at home, I'm still the same Scott, but I don't have to elevate myself to another position. And I think it's the same at work too. Sometimes people want to be themselves, but because of either politics Or cliques or the culture at work, you can't be even though you want to. And I think that's really difficult.

Well, I think in there, I think it's you've convinced yourself you can't be.

That's true. And we do know, and I have seen people who decide, this is me, I'm going to be me all the time. My wife Meg is excellent at that. She's one of the people I look up to and highly respect because she is able to be the person she is under any circumstance, no matter where she is. And that enlightenment, that, that height that she has accomplished, I haven't accomplished yet. I look at it as I'm above novice, obviously, but I'm not at her level, but I'm in training. And so I do agree that yes, you can be, and I see that every day here at home with my wife.

And you mentioned earlier the idea that, you know, maybe when you leave home, you're trying to gain the respect of the workplace or gain respect At school. And I love that you brought that up because I think that's one of the biggest mistakes we make. And I have made it throughout my life. I've made this mistake. And that is this idea that I'm going to leave and do something to gain respect. I don't need to gain respect is a lesson I think we're always maybe having to tell ourselves. It's like looking back at yourself as a child, but doing it as an adult and saying, stop doing that, Mike, because you don't need to gain someone's respect. Just be who you are. And they should either value you or not value you for who you are. I think the problem is when we think I have to leave and gain something, now I have to do something to gain that. And now I'm worried about taking actions or putting off a persona that will give me that respect versus just being myself and being respected for exactly who I am and the exact gifts I have for this world for who I am.

Very well put. One of the things I love about what you're doing and speaking about respect in this podcast and the speaking you do all over, well, North America and the world, is that it is retraining. Because when you're growing up, there are those moments where you say to yourself, I don't even know who I am. I don't know how I'm going to do this. And this is so tough. I just want to survive every day before I get back home from school. I get home from school. But you're right. We do need to retool and retrain ourselves as adults to look at things differently and be comfortable with who we are and realize that what we are is a gift. It's a wonderful thing and we don't have to change. Being ourselves is fine. And if there are some folks that don't like that person, there's plenty others that do.

Absolutely. And you and I both get to work with organizations around the world. How do you think respect ties into the 5 generations currently in the workplace?

Well, one of my passions is speaking on that. The biggest way it ties into it right now is watching baby boomers and even older generation and Gen Xers really understand and see the light bulb go on when we have discussions. And it's all about discussing, as are so many things in life. That's why you have this podcast. We talk about millennials and how important they are and why they do things differently. Why it's going to continue. And then I add a little fact that they're the number one generation in America and in the workforce, which some people don't get. I add the fact that they're parents now and they've got kids, and all of a sudden people's minds begin to shift and they look at them not as kids anymore, not as children, but full-grown adults. And I also mentioned a lot of millennials or Xers that have some pretty high-level positions. And the bottom line is, Mike, what I've learned is the more we respect one another at work and respect different generations by growing communications and sharing information, the greater our productivity, the greater retention seems to be, and folks at work seem to be happier too because they look at it as, wow, you actually get me. You're, you're 57 years old and I'm 28. And you actually have discussed things with me, you understand me better. I appreciate that.

Yeah. And you and I have talked about this before, so I'm going to ask you because it runs right into this, that really appreciating people from all different perspectives, which you just brought up, is it ever okay to not show respect?

That's a great question. Lots of different answers. My answer is really, really simple. If there's something going on, I'm really good at walking away. And I've also learned, and again, I still need several lifetimes to practice this, to curb what I say and to not get into deep conversations when I see things going in a way that's either going to be highly disrespectful. Uncomfortable is different. You can be having a conversation with somebody and have a nice, decent, respectful conversation on something you disagree with. But is it ever okay to be disrespectful? There's 2 answers. Absolutely not, because it's easy enough to just walk away. But at the same time, if something's gone down in your life and you're faced with some decisions that have to be made, sometimes being disrespectful to somebody is the only way you can get things done. And that's really a last resort. Yeah.

And I don't—

I'm curious, is that disrespect? It's—

I think what you're describing is when you have to strongly stand your ground and fight, stand for something you really, really believe in and against somebody else who could be doing harm, right? Self-defense. And I don't mean physically self-defense necessarily. It could be emotional self-defense. It could be whatever it is. I don't even think that's disrespect. I think that's actually operating at the highest level of respect for yourself, for your boundaries.

You're, you're right. I— and there's that fine line that I struggle with. I have no problem defending myself, respecting myself most of the time. But I think my bigger struggle, you know, and your question is, is it ever okay to be disrespectful? It depends on what the definition of the word is that we want to use. I mean, is it okay for me to not have admiration for somebody or to think that their abilities are great? Well, absolutely. But is it okay for me— To be disrespectful? The simple answer I want to say is no, you should never be disrespectful, but I don't know that I'm that wise yet to figure out how to do that, which is why what you're doing is so important, because folks like me still need to be educated. Zillions of us all over the world.

Well, and I appreciate that, and I think it is an ongoing journey. You know, I think it's, it's one of the struggles people have when you talk about respect. When we're talking about this in companies and organizations, they all want to say, Well, you have to earn my respect. And when I tell the whole audience, no, nope, I don't have to. I'm going to respect you because you're a fellow human being. Now, you might professionally value me differently because of something I've done or haven't done or whatever, but treating someone with a basic level of dignity and respect should be across the board. And somebody said to me recently, what about somebody who does harm to others? Do they still get treated with dignity and respect? And this happened at a live show. And I said, this is the hardest thing I have to answer, 'cause the answer is yes. And they go, what? What do you mean? I say, here's the problem. If there comes a time where I get to choose who gets respected and who doesn't, that means there comes a time when someone else gets to choose whether I get respected or not. And they could come up with a reason that they feel I'm the harm and therefore no longer treat me with dignity and respect. And that is a dangerous line I don't want any of us to be toting. I can say I treat you with dignity and respect of a fellow human being and still say you have to be held accountable. You still have to go to jail. You still have to go to prison. You still have to— and yet still understand you're a human being.

That is such a great point. You know, I think many of the Scandinavian countries are well known for treating their prisoners and men and women doing time with a lot of dignity and respect, something that other countries don't necessarily agree with, but many studies seem to show— no, do show that there's a lower recidivism rate in those countries because of the training, the dignity and respect. They're still serving time, but they're taking care of them and training them so that when they leave, they will never see them again Some people think, well, to say respect means that I think they're a great person.

No, no, it means they're, they're a person. They're a human being is what it means. I treat you with respect and dignity because you're a human being, and everybody deserves that. Now, that doesn't mean there's other things that you might be treated differently based on what you have or haven't done, but on that basic level, it's so important. Has there been a time, Scott, where you felt you were disrespected?

Absolutely.

What was the result for you? What— how does that make you feel when that happens?

It makes me feel angry, and it also motivates me. Most of the time when it happened, it was in the professional arena, in corporate, and I knew that when that was happening, it was incorrect. And it was almost a challenge then for me to go, okay, you're calling me out and you're incorrect, or you're stating something that isn't true. Now, it's on me to right that and to show that that's incorrect and here's why.

Well, and I love that you gave that example because you and I are built the same way, and that when I was growing up, and what I mean is a young adult even, 20s and 30s, somebody disrespected me, I'm like, you want to? Let's go.

Let's roll.

And I don't mean like let's roll like a fight. I mean like, you're about to be proven wrong. Like, that, that was my same thing you're describing. Like, oh, you think I can't, huh? Watch. Sit back and watch because it's about to— whatever you thought I couldn't do is about to happen.

Yeah.

And what's sad about that is that that kind of degradation is what fires a lot of us up. And I think what happens is when we're younger— and I mean younger as in it could be 20s, 30s, 40s, it just depends on what phase of life we're in when I say younger— we feel we need an external fire at our feet. And so, we use disrespect as that versus realizing, why don't I go somewhere where I don't have to play this game?

I love that, Mike, because sometimes you can make the decision to go somewhere where you don't have to play that game. Sometimes it's a hard decision and it comes at a cost. I recognize that inside me, there's this passion and fire that's driven me ever since I was a kid. And it would drive me to do some things that were really successful and some things where I just fell straight on my face. I had to pick myself up and dust myself off and put some Bactine on my cuts. But the bottom line is I didn't need somebody to be disrespectful to drive me, but I did realize that when that occurred, it instantly set off something inside of me that said, oh yeah? Okay. I'll show you. And it was the same thing. It wasn't going outside and fighting. Just figuring out a way to get from point A to point B where they either said I hadn't or couldn't go, and I did it. Mike, can I ask you a question? Can I turn this around once and ask you one question?

Sure.

How do you show respect to everyone? Because it is such a challenge, and I have watched you, and you do it very well. And I know it's difficult for us, but I'm still growing. I'm still learning, and I love that. But how do you find the ability to show respect to people even when you either really don't agree with them or you may not even like them very much at all?

Well, it's— I don't always. We all fail in the struggle at times. I would say that for me, the key is in those moments, because for me it can happen from stage because I deal with such a sensitive topic. It can happen with my audience member in the middle of a show. Somebody could say something really outrageously harmful, potentially, or degrading or disrespectful. And back in the day, 2 decades ago, I would've just shut that person down and the audience would've been like, wow, he owned that moment, that kind of a thing. But it didn't create a learning opportunity. And what I realized was that's the person I'm here to connect with. That's the person I'm meant to meet. Is that person. So when they present that comment, this is our opportunity for me to provide a learning opportunity. I can't do that if I'm looking down on them for what they said. They're gonna feel that. So I have to connect with us on an equal level. I have to learn about you to understand how you came to that place. And if I can figure out how you came to that place, maybe I can open up a door of possibility of a new place you can go, or maybe I'm wrong. And when I learn where you came from, I might have a new perspective that you helped me grow in that moment and I become smarter because of you even though I thought you were an idiot when you said that. Hopefully.

I love that because I went through that literally last week at a conference when I was done keynoting and people really liked it. It went well and there was one lady who came up afterwards. I could tell from her body language that something was going to go down. You know, the first things out of her mouth were, I want to tell you I really enjoyed your presentation. Here's 2 areas where that I didn't like, and here's why. Most people that were coming up or were saying things, they were just very positive. This was my learning moment, and the same thing happened to me because she expected me to shut her down, and I didn't. I looked her right in the eye and I said, you know, You're giving me something to think about. I don't know what I'm going to do with it yet, but I'd like to continue this conversation via email or phone call. Here's my card because I really— I hear what you're saying. I'm just finishing from speaking, so I can't fully develop my thoughts on it, but you're definitely onto something, and I know that you believe wholeheartedly in what you're saying, so I don't want to dismiss that. I actually want to learn and grow the conversation. And so I'm waiting to hear back from her. I hope she will. But it was one of those moments where I think like you, I was like, maybe that's the person I was meant to connect with because she's taking me now and taking my mind over to this because— and it had to do with respect. She felt I was being disrespectful by saying something about a certain topic when I was talking about generations. I didn't see it that way. I wanted to find out why she felt that way and see maybe, maybe I'm doing things wrong. It's nice to have that ability to talk.

Yeah, and to know when it's okay to know this isn't going to go anywhere. Move on. I think that's the other essential element you need in moments like that where you may realize we are not going to get to a common ground here and this could just get uglier. That's not the purpose of why I need to be either in this moment right now or on this planet right now. I'm gonna move on. I mean, it can be with family and friends. Maybe you walk into a room and everybody's having a conversation that you know is gonna trigger you into debate mode. And this is, even though you may win at it, you may be successful at it, you may get a rush from it, you're not gonna, it's gonna drain your energy, overall outlook. Why do I need to do that? Let's go to the other room where that's not happening. So, making choices where we also protect our own boundaries is critical in those moments.

That's a great point, Mike. That is why I love to learn. And that's why your podcast is— as soon as you were kind enough to ask me if I'd be on, I was like, oh my gosh, yeah. I love the topic. I love talking about respect. But at the same time, I began to think, wow, there's some things I do really well and things I need to do better. this is going to help. And, and listening to the podcast, it helps. And, and, and now just hearing some of your explanations, it's like, yeah, uh, it's not just me. Other people go through this too.

Oh, absolutely. We're all on the journey together. And speaking of the journey together, you have a book that you love that I absolutely love too, The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. What, what do you love about that book, Scott?

What I love about it is it completely changed the way I looked at myself as an individual. They just boiled it down. Toltec Indians from Mexico, 4 agreements that you could live your life by. And I also realized that when I first came upon the book 10 years ago, it's not a hard read. It's not a thick book. But what's in there is so powerful that, again, it would take me lifetimes to master, but with this life that I have, I've been able to make some strides moving forward, and it's really changed how I look at things and how I do things. So, and I've recommended it to so many people who, who, who really dig it and, and love it, and it's just taught me those 4 important agreements, which, you know, I I won't rattle off now, but I will say are instrumental in how I lead my life now. It just allows me to focus more and have less stress and less drama in my life.

Love it. Thanks for sharing that, Scott. And for everyone listening, you can find Scott at ScottLesnick.com. You know I'll be in touch with you, Scott, because we're always in touch. I want to thank you so much for joining us.

Mike, it's my pleasure. I want to thank you too. This was just great.

Awesome. For all of our listeners, remember you can join Scott and I in this conversation as far as asking questions after the show by going to our Facebook group, which is the Respect Podcast Discussion Group. The Respect Podcast Discussion Group. Ask questions, engage. We'd love to see you there.

This week's question of the week is from Phil, and Phil asked a question that is one I've heard frequently, so I think it's really important we answer. The question is, how do you respect someone who has disrespected and potentially disgraced you and/or your family, especially if they are part of that family? And a lot of people struggle with this. There's someone in their stratosphere, in their life, who has caused harm, and how do I treat them with dignity and respect? Here's the key component for us to think of. I don't have to like the person. I don't have to love them. I don't have to want to be around them. I don't have to spend time with them. But here's what makes us unique. In that we are a civilized society. What makes us civilized is that we treat all people with dignity and respect, including those who've done harm. We treat them with dignity and respect. That does not mean we need to spend time with them. That does not mean we need to include them in our livelihood, in our schedule, in our activities. Those are all different discussions. So I think it's super important for somebody to understand, if I run into another human being, Treat that person with due respect. That doesn't mean I need to have that person in my life. You can choose to end relationships because they are unhealthy for your life. And some people say, well, I'm going to work through those relationships to create them healthy again. That's your choice, but there's a big difference there. So we want to clarify how and why is to remember that I am civilized and I believe that every human being deserves to be treated with any respect. I wanted that for myself, and this person By the way, might not have given that to me, which is why I know every human being deserves it. And so I'm going to treat every human being with dignity and respect. Great question, Phil. We'd love to hear your questions, your thoughts, and your ideas. And the best place to leave those with us is on our Facebook page at facebook.com/mutuallyamazingpodcast. Of course, you can always contact us on our website at mutuallyamazingpodcast.com. Remember to subscribe to this show so you automatically get it every week. And if you could take one moment to leave a review, that really helps other people find the show, which we are greatly appreciative of. So thank you so much for joining us. May you make today and every day a life full of mutually amazing relationships.