45: Colette Carlson says "Speak Your Truth!"

Welcome to the Mutually Amazing Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Domitrz, with the Center for Respect. The episode you're about to listen to was recorded when this show used to be called the Respect Podcast. So, you might hear that mentioned during this episode. Well, let's get to the show. And this week, we have Colette Carlson, a human behavior expert, author, and keynote speaker who inspires individuals to connect and communicate in real and relevant ways. Colette grew up in Chicago, now lives in San Diego, 2 of my favorite cities, by the way, but she still prefers pizza over tofu. I love that sense of humor. Colette, thank you so much for joining us.

My pleasure.

And for all of our listeners, I know Colette because Colette is another speaker, and we actually got some time to really spend a few hours together in Toronto a couple months ago at an event. Chatting. And I love your spirit and your energy. So happy you can be here with our listeners.

Thank you. I'm looking forward to it all.

Well, Colette, you speak on the power of connection as it applies to leadership, sales, and stress. What role does respect play when it comes to connection?

In my opinion, you can't connect unless someone respects who you are. In other words, it's easy to just make a fast connection. You know, you meet someone, you shake hands, you meet eyes, and you You may feel that you have created that connection, but if it's going to go beyond that, something just very light and social, and become a real genuine rich relationship, then respect is paramount because no one is going to hang out with someone they don't respect, hence disconnect.

What does that mean to you when you say respect in a relationship like that? How does it show? How do you know it's there or not there?

Hmm. Well, I think that respect shows up everywhere. So respect is the small things. Your supervisor tells you that they want to meet with you at a certain time, you're present, you're sitting there, you're waiting, and then they come blasting in the door 10 minutes late with, oh, sorry, I was on a call. Again, if this is a one-off, you know, then that's not a big deal. But if this becomes a pattern or if this is how your supervisor continues to show up, Then you're going to start losing a little bit of respect. So it starts in everything they do. It starts in how they address you. You are walking down the hallway and they've got their nose down and kind of give you a hey versus a genuine eye-to-eye hi, how's it going today? So respect to me is really how someone continues to show up and make you feel.

I love that, how they make you feel. And how can you notice ways, what can you look out for of ways that you might not be realizing you're lacking in giving that respect to those you're leading and working with?

Well, I'm all about awakening your awareness, and I encourage people to bring truth tellers into their lives. These are people that you do respect and trust and help, you know, hold up the mirror to you and help you realize what a whack job you really are, you know, in ways that you're not meeting people's needs. So first of all, I'm a big believer in seeking out those truth-tellers and getting feedback. So I would encourage anyone to say to those— start with those closest to you, your immediate family, because they always have something to say. But I would start by saying, what do I do throughout the day when I'm interacting with you that makes you feel less than respectful? That makes you feel I'm not really present? And then listen. And let's say they say, well, every time you have a conversation with me, your eyes dart away and check out your phone. Ding, ding, ding. Okay, awareness number 1. That would be a great thing to then put aside while you're actually having a conversation with the individual. When— and these awarenesses that you have will transfer into— The workplace, because I really believe your personal and your professional life are so much more tied together than people want to acknowledge. You bring your behaviors with you wherever you go. You may control them a little bit better in the workplace because others are watching and you feel like you're being judged more critically, but you still need to— at the core, you're going to show up as how you are. So in the workplace, I would also encourage you to do the same thing. Bring together some of the people that you work with individually, one-on-one, at the right time, right place. And by that I mean a time where it feels safe for them. And you might even say, you know, you don't have to give me a fast answer, but I'm really genuinely interested now that we've been working together a while if there's anything that I'm saying or doing or any behaviors that are showing up that you feel are getting in the way of us having a more you know, respectful, uh, relationship and a deeper connection or things that are simply getting in the way of us running this business more effectively.

Well, and I love that you focused on, are there times I'm not present? It appears I'm not present to you because I think somebody is going to feel safer answering that than times I disrespected you. Because somebody might think, well, I, you don't disrespect me. I've never thought of a way. But when you say times I'm not present, Suddenly people are like, oh yeah, your phone. Oh yeah, somebody walks by and you're waving at them while I'm talking to you, right? These— that, that seems safer to tell you than to tell you you've disrespected me, which can feel a little scary maybe, especially in the workplace.

Absolutely. And you know, you brought— you made me think of something that I witnessed happen. There's times, for example, if you're walking along with someone and a third individual comes by, these two, individuals end up in a conversation with each other, and sometimes people don't even stop and introduce you, that third party standing there, to the individual. Now, sometimes that happens because people have forgotten the other individual's name and they're trying to cover themselves, so they don't take the time. But I'm all about speaking your truth because I think it's easier to keep it real And in that moment, it's perfectly okay to say, this is Colette. I'd like to introduce you to her. And look, I've got a lot on my mind. I could tell you 10 things about yourself, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but your name, the file cabinet's just not coming up right now. Help me out. You know, and then introduce the person to one another, because that's something that happens often, and you're just standing there on the side like going, hello, am I even here? And so that's another area where you're not feeling present with that person.

Yeah, one thing that my wife and I have this agreement that if I'm sitting there and this person clearly thinks they know me and like I should know them and I'm not introducing you, that means I'm clueless to who this person's name is.

Right.

Or I'm having— or I'm having a major brain freeze. I may know them, but I'm having a brain freeze. And so that's your signal to go ahead and say, oh, by the way, I'm Karen, you know, that kind of thing. It's— I'm not ignoring you. That means I'm literally in a brain freeze moment. And I don't want to hurt this person by going, who are you? When they clearly think I know who they are, you know? So now don't get me wrong, if I don't know them well or so, that's different. Then I will say, I'm sorry, can you help me remember your name? And I'll just be upfront about that. But you don't— it's a little agreement we have to help that because you don't want that person to feel like I'm leaving you out. I'm not trying to leave you out. I'm lost right now.

Well, and Mike, that's something that works well when you're close like you are with your partner or if you have a work partner. But I've been in these circumstances where you happen to be walking with somebody in the company that maybe is 2 levels above you. Now you run into that other individual who is also much higher on the food chain, and in those circumstances, it's a little bit more awkward to just jump into the conversation and say, hi, I'm Colette Carlson, because sometimes there's absolutely no break in the conversation to do so. So yeah, trust me, I've got something similar going on with blue eyes myself. I notice sometimes people just get, you know, dismissed in a work environment in that same circumstance.

Yeah, no, I think that's really important that you brought that up. So I appreciate that. And yes, what I'm referring to is when you have an established relationship, you can do that, which obviously— and that could be an established long-term work relationship, like a colleague. Hey, if I don't do this, but you need that rapport to be able to have that conversation take place. And I love— recently I interviewed Phil Jones for an episode, and I think some of what Phil talks about works here. Because you could say to somebody you're in charge of, somebody that you're supposed to be leading, how, you know, are, are you, or how open are you to helping me be a better leader?

Yeah.

Be a better manager. And that allows them to say, well, sure. Well, by doing that, that tells them you genuinely want their input versus, hey, can you tell me when I'm not being respectful? That can be like, ooh, what's going on? Why are you suddenly asking this question? You know? So, but if I come in with, How open are you to helping me be a better manager? You can tell I'm trying to learn and I'm coming from a place of genuine wanting to grow versus maybe I'm upset because somebody said I disrespect them. And I'm curious if you see the same thing, because you and I both know people play these mind games when they get these questions. Like, why, why am I being the one you're asking this to? What's going on? You've never asked this before. Why me? So, I think giving them a safe landing spot helps.

Yeah. Yes. And that's where, again, set the framework. You could even come and show up back in a work environment and say, I just attended this program, or I just heard this podcast, or I just read this book. And I realized that if I'm going to really grow to the next level, I have to be open to hearing additional feedback from those I lead. And so you set that frame. And then the question you mentioned that Phil adds is great. In fact, I've been encouraging people to use the phraseology, are you open-minded? Are you open-minded to hearing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? Or are you open-minded to giving me feedback? Because again, no one wants to consider themselves not to be open-minded. So, it's a very powerful word.

Yeah. Yes, it is. It's great stuff. So, this is excellent. Now, your company is called Speak Your Truth, Inc. What made you decide to choose that particular name, that mission?

Twofold. I'm old enough, Mike, that I've witnessed such hypocrisy. In the workplace and with people in general, people who say one thing and then go and do another, and people who say all the right things but don't practice, or their behaviors state otherwise. So that was a big, huge piece of it. And the second area is really to hold myself accountable to speaking my truth. I believe that speaking your truth is really the key to Your success. So, I thought, I'm claiming it.

No, I love that. And you clearly state there's a difference between stating your truth and stating your mind. And for someone listening, what's the big difference there?

Absolutely. Well, I think you speak your mind to make yourself right. You speak your mind when you want to hurt someone. You speak your mind when you make it all about you. And your platform and what you believe. And there's usually someone paying a price for you speaking your mind. I believe speaking your truth is the opposite. Speaking your truth is really— well, it's twofold. It's when your thoughts, your words, and your actions are one and the same. So in other words, when you're in authentic alignment, you are speaking your truth. But also from a business context, I believe speaking your truth is used with, you know, when you're clear, when you're sincere, when you're respectful in how you go about that, you actually speak your truth to help or improve or heal a situation. Uh, so it's the difference between bombing a bridge and building a bridge in order to become more effective as a team.

And so do you give people a question to ask themselves before I, you know, if I'm, what's a test for myself? Wait, is this me speaking my truth or is this speaking my mind?

I always come back to what is the goal of this conversation? Is it really to help improve a situation and a relationship and make it better? Or is it just me needing to tell someone what I think?

Yes, that's powerful. And like you said before, that difference between trying to be right Versus trying to learn and grow. Now, speaking of that, let's say you're in a situation that is tougher. Uh, you feel you're being disrespected or you're not being valued, you're not being heard, and you want to speak your truth and remain respectful. You feel it's one of those moments where you're not being heard at all. How do you do that?

First of all, it's great to notice that you're aware of the situation, right? That you're hesitating going for it. So the D in DEAL is really about describing the data. It's about sticking with the facts. And when you stick with the facts, you know, you're not getting caught up in interpretations or evaluations or opinions. So it's the difference, for example, of saying to someone— you're in a meeting, you witness someone interrupt another individual, and you might think you're helping the situation or the customer service at your location by saying to them, Jeremy, you were rude to that customer. Well, again, that's an interpretation, and therefore that is more of a speak-your-mind moment, and you're not helping Jeremy identify what he did. And also it can get into a drama situation because Jeremy can say, well, no, I didn't. And so if you stick with the facts, the data, it sounds more along the lines of, Jeremy, you cut that customer off mid-sentence. So it's very clear and it is factual-based. So that's the D. The E is about expressing your emotion and the impact of that. Describe the data. The E is express the emotional impact. And the A is ask assertively. And the L is listen to learn. So now that I've expressed what the D actually represents, I'll move to the E, express your emotion with impact. I would encourage people to stay with words such as concerns, surprises, puzzles, or uncomfortable. Let me give you an example. Hmm, well, this puzzles me because— or, or this concerns me because— or that makes me uncomfortable because— the reason that I love those 4 words, Mike, is there's not a lot of shaming or blaming in them. It's not like you're saying, well, and this disappointed me because— because then people go into shame and blame, they start shutting down. And you've missed that opportunity to actually create the connection to get people to recognize that behavior that's going on that you're addressing. And so, those 4 words I find work well.

Let's do them one more time just because I know people are driving and doing things. They're so powerful. That was a great example. Confuses, puzzles—

Surprises, and uncomfortable. Yeah, love those 4 words. And especially, you know, when you think about respect and people are telling off-color jokes, you know, around the office. That statement, you know, that joke made me uncomfortable. It's not a word that people can argue about. It's just your feelings. So it's a really— I love that word. I use it often, in fact. And then A, again, was the ask assertively. What I find too often is when we're speaking our truth or we're addressing an issue, we tell people what we don't want, but we rarely state what we do want. And I'm all about helping people create a vision for what it is that they want so that others can see it. And in fact, I always use this example even as a parent. When I— I was fortunate enough to get clued into some of this behavior early on before I had my children, and so I was one of the few parents around a pool that would yell, please walk, versus don't run. Or we'd go into a store and I would say, use your eyes, versus don't touch. Because when you think about it, when you tell someone what not to do, that's the first thought they have to get their brain around, and then they have to flip it to now what you want them to do. So it's an extra step that you just don't need. And plus, maybe it's just because I did grow up on the South Side of Chicago, but to me, don't is a dare. So why even plant that seed with people?

By the way, I love this because in our work with respect, as you were starting to reference earlier, Uh-huh. We're all about, you have to teach what to do. To tell somebody, don't disrespect somebody, or don't do this, there's nothing I can do with that. Literally, there's nothing I can do. You've only given me a not— it's like, don't fumble. Well, you know what's about to happen? They're gonna fumble because you focused them on the only thing they're not supposed to do.

Yes. So, it's, it's just a wonderful way to help people see the vision of where you want them to go. And then the last step was listen to learn. And the reason that I think listening to learn is so important is you've got to listen without judgment and come from a place of curiosity and compassion because you really do not know what's going on with someone. And you may be making an assumption as you speak your truth. And this is an opportunity to close the loop and to give them a chance to say what they want to, what they need to, or so you can learn what they're all about. So let me give you a full example. I'm sitting in an office and I watch this guy walk out to the receptionist and just use his voice loudly, which again, to me, anytime you're raising your voice above a speaking level and you're not doing it to cheer someone on, you have now crossed the line to speaking your mind. I believe you can say everything again with clarity, sincerity, and respect, and that means your tone as well. So this guy comes out around the corner and he just goes, you didn't follow the procedure. All right, well, first of all, I encourage people never to start a sentence with the word you unless they're complimenting someone. Because again, you go back into blaming, shaming. But I thought, man, all he had to do was really deal. So the D, describe the data, would have been, you know, hey, there's a procedure for this that we've got to follow. Right? That's the data. So the E would be, well, and This concerns me as it could create liability for us if it isn't followed. Okay, A, ask assertively for what you want. I need your commitment that you're going to follow this process without exception. Listen to learn. Can we, you know, work together on this? Or were you trained otherwise on this procedure? Or do you need some additional training? Or is there something going on that I don't know about that you'd love to share with me? So that's a fast example of just, you know, how something as simple as that conversation could have gone down with respect.

Where do you think people struggle the most with that? That formula is so beautiful. It gives us specific things we can do. Where do you think people's struggles are when they're trying to, when they're in the moment trying to do it?

2 places describing the data. I mean, Mike, I help people craft these and I always encourage people to write to me if they're having a challenging critical conversation at work, and I will help them with this material. I just ask that they give me some time because obviously I'm on the road speaking and busy, so don't wait till the last minute. But you wouldn't believe, 9 times out of 10 when people write to me with an issue and are looking for help, they are not sticking with the data. So I'll get comments like, Colette, I have this person that I work with and she is just very disrespectful and has a poor attitude. And I will have to write back and say, well, tell me what that looks like. You know, in other words, can you provide 3 examples, um, that outline these behaviors you just mentioned? And people struggle.

Right, because they've created more of a story than what actually happened.

Correct. And so what happens is they're not direct with respect. They end up getting caught up again into drama. Well, I just don't like the way she treats me. Well, can you please provide an example of a time when you felt mistreated by this individual? Well, it's just, it's just how she is. Okay, well, again, without data, I can't support you in this process.

Right, right. There's nothing I can do because you're— what I think about that is that means there's a prior history there, right? That they've created a story. And so you can even explore that. Is, is there a history here I'm not aware of, right? That could be a question that could play into this because maybe that helps them realize you're doing this based on the past. Not on what they just said. But I'm not going to say that because that's obviously not healthy. But is there a history I'm not aware of? Is a genuine objective question that they could say, yes, I don't care for this person, or I don't like this person. Oh, so it's, it's possible that their words impact you differently, right? So it— you can have those conversations.

Absolutely. And if I were, you know, coaching them through the process, those are beautiful questions that would come up. The challenge is, you know, they're sending it to me via email. I'm on the road trying to send back some info, get some information.

Right.

But yes, so that's a huge piece. And I find again that people bring their history to work, just like you said, Mike. You know, what you don't heal continues to show up in your world. And so oftentimes, if you really take the time to coach them through, it's a button that they have been pushing or allowing to be pushed from the beginning of the time based on their family of origin or their first supervisor, you know. So, so that I write, I believe is really tough. And then ironically, the ask assertively is also tough. Sometimes people are more comfortable, uh, telling people, like you said, what they don't want, but having them paint a picture of what they do want, uh, is more challenging for them. For example, I know this is— we're talking about business, but from a personal side, It's not uncommon, you know, you and I end up on airplanes or in conversations following presentations with people, and there's a lot of people that I speak with that want their partners to change their behaviors. But when I say, well, what would having a healthy partner look like? What would they do? How would they show up in the morning? You know, what kind of— or they say, I just need more help around the house. Well, that's great. What does that help look like? Like, specifically, what are 3 things someone could take off your plate that would make you feel valued, respected, and appreciated? And then it's like you're looking at a blank wall.

And once again, it helps them realize the story or the racket they're running in their head versus reality of what's actually happening in this moment.

Yeah.

It's always there. I'm reading this great book, and as I'm reading it, I'm thinking of so many people that need this, and they're not thinking of themselves, right? It's that— and we all do it at times. Oh, so-and-so needs to read this. Wait, there's a reason I'm reading it. You know, so I love that, that, that helps expose that so we can learn from that process. And you've got a book coming up, uh, which is exciting called Stop Playing Fictionary: Speak Your Truth to Stress Less and Connect More. So obviously we've talked quite a bit about— I can— things that are going to be in that book, I can tell. Uh, but what are, what are things that you're most excited about people getting from the book?

That they really write their own story and to stop living life in the past lane. To figure out what they want, do their healing, and move forward. The book, though, primarily is filled with lots of anecdotes and stories of my own experiences and those of all the people that I've interviewed. And they're short. You know, it's a fast read on each topic and helps them realize at the end of it there's a couple questions to ask themselves to gain that awareness. And again, depending on how deep they wanna get or go, um, they can take it there. But I do really want people to recognize that most of the frustration that they run into in life is self-imposed.

And you have 2 other books that you love, Crucial Conversations and Love Is a Killer App. What do you love about those 2 books? Hmm.

Well, Crucial Conversations is one of those books that I had been talking about speaking your truth for quite a few years. But when that book came out, I thought, oh man, they nailed it. It is just an excellent phrase. The phrases in that book and the process— for example, one of the very first things they talk about when you're going to have a critical conversation, or I call speak your truth conversation, is to start with heart. You know, this is that reflection piece that I recommend, but I love that phraseology. Even start with heart, you know, think about your own role in it and how you may have been contributing to the situation. So there's that awareness. It's just a beautiful book, and I think that they provide lots of examples and scripts and phraseology to help people move forward. Love Is the Killer App. Well, I read that book so many years ago, but it was one of the first business books when I read it that actually talked about empathy, compassion, love, connection in the workplace that was written by a man. And I love Tim Sanders' work, and he talks about being a love cat, and I really resonated with that because fortunately I was raised by a love cat, which was my father. And when I reached out directly to Tim via email after reading his book, not ever expecting any kind of reply given his busy life, within about 10 minutes I got an email back from him, which just To me spoke volumes that he speaks his truth, walks his talk, and practices what he preaches as well.

That is awesome. How'd you get here? How'd you get to where you are this mission?

Well, I started out as a big fat liar. So, you know, you teach what you had to learn in my circumstance. Even though I was raised by parents who loved me, somehow I bought into the fact that I had to be perfect in order to be lovable. And what that meant was There is no such thing as being perfect, right? We're imperfectly perfect every step of the way. And so I really sabotaged myself. I used food as a way to play it safe. I stuffed down my truth rather than expressed it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I could tell a cab driver where to go if he, you know, tried to rip me off, but I didn't have the ability to be vulnerable and Speak my truth with the people that were closest to me, whether that was my family or a relationship that I happened to be in, or even a best friend, telling her I did not want her to wear my new blouse that weekend. And I was just so afraid. So I was kind of like this boastful outside— and I mean boastful in the way of telling myself how great I am, but— You know, if you met me, you would have thought that I was a very strong, confident person who would have no problem telling someone—

That shield of confidence.

The shield, yeah. So I could speak my mind, but I was not speaking my truth. And it really wasn't until my mid-20s, you know, 50 pounds heavier starting in high school as I protected myself through food and stuffed down my truth, that I finally had read enough, you know, hung out long enough in the self-help section of the bookstore, as I call it, and, and went to some seminars and then went into sales for both Tom Hopkins and Brian Tracy, national sales trainers, and really started heavy on the personal development that I realized that I had to save myself if I wanted to achieve what I knew I came here to do.

That, that is awesome. And, and I love where it's taking you and you're helping so many people, which is fantastic. Colette, I wanna thank you for sharing so much brilliance and insights with us today.

Thank you, Michael. It was my pleasure.

Absolutely. And for our, our listeners, you know what's coming up next? That's the question of the week. Before I answer this week's question of the week, I'd love to ask you a question. Would you please subscribe to this podcast, The Respect Podcast with Mike Domitrz? By subscribing, you can make a huge impact. Now you might be wondering, Mike, how does my subscribing to your podcast make a huge impact? Well, here's how. For every person that subscribes, it raises the rankings of the show in the search engines. So for people who care about respect like yourself, when they're doing a search for podcasts, they're more likely to find this show, thus providing an awesome opportunity for us to spread more respect around this world. And all you do is hit subscribe Under your podcast. Plus, the second benefit is by subscribing, you automatically get every episode right into your phone or whatever device you are listening to the podcast on. It happens automatically. So subscribing also makes your life easier. Now let's get into this week's question of the week. Oh, and by the way, you can always ask your questions of the week by joining us on Facebook in our discussion group. It's called the Respect Podcast Discussion Group. Go there on Facebook and ask whatever questions you would like me to answer and/or address in this segment of the show. And then listen to each episode to find out when your question is included. This week's question of the week comes from a different podcast I was on where the guest asked me this question and made me pause and go, hmm. So I'm going to share with everybody here, and that's my, my answer I'm going to share. And I want you to think what yours would be. The question was from the podcast Shareable by Jeff Gibbard. Great podcast called Shareable. Check it out. Listen to it, subscribe, review. Jeff's very cool. Here was a question Jeff asked. What is going to be a critical skill people are going to need in the future? My answer was listening. I don't think that's ever going to go away. I want each of us to pause and think today, am I listening or am I defending? There's a huge difference. We often want to debate and hold to what we believe. Listening means we have to be open to other possibilities. Are we listening? Are we taking that skill with us every day going forward? That's this week's Question of the Week. We'd love to hear your questions, your thoughts, and your ideas. And the best place to leave those with us is on our Facebook page at facebook.com/MutuallyAmazingPodcast. Of course, you can always contact us on our website at mutuallyamazingpodcast.com. Remember to subscribe to this show so you automatically get it every week. And if you could take one moment to leave a review, that really helps other people find the show, which we are greatly appreciative of. So thank you so much for joining us. May you make today and every day a life full of mutually amazing relationships.